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RE: [ksurf] Re: are boxers low aspect high performance ??

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  • Hein van Swaay
    I m interested in the Boxer too. I currently ride SS GTOs and I love a lower aspect kite. The GTO s won t be available in 2004. (big mistake IMO) I ride
    Message 1 of 11 , Dec 1, 2003
      I'm interested in the Boxer too. I currently ride
      SS GTOs and I love a lower aspect kite. The GTO's
      won't be available in 2004. (big mistake IMO)

      I ride unshackled and with my kite low and in the power.
      mostly with a much smaller kite than my bros who
      are scared to death to have their kite swing through
      the power.

      I love to do unhooked moves. It opens up a whole new
      chapter of fun stuff to try.

      I looked at the Cabrinha but the Recon is to complicated
      and prone to failures plus I don't want their power lock
      bar. I saw a guy get lofted when he set up his Recon wrong
      and had the line at the trailing edge partially tensioned.

      Maybe I can talk South Padre Island Kiteboarding into
      letting me try a Boxer. They have some in stock and
      I'll let you know if I get a chance to ride one.

      In regards to your view of kiting safety...

      I agree totally. In fact, all the recent flurry of
      'safety systems' designed by people who aren't even
      real engineers is making this sport 'seem' safe to many
      newbies. They think they can detach when in fact they
      can't. That's been sadly proven by many experienced
      kiters who have died by lofting and/or dragging. I've
      seen many people get lofted and dragged. It only takes
      one hard object to turn these seemingly innocent and
      sometimes even comical incidents into a tragedy.

      Kitesurfing companies need to apply some serious failure
      modes and effects analysis. And do a much better job making
      people aware of the REAL dangers that are related to
      location and wind conditions. I don't think either is
      being done. This is not windsurfing, snowboarding or
      wakeboarding and any analogies made to these sports is only
      further masking the risks. It's more like hang gliding,
      acrobatic flying and parachuting! When two or more things
      go wrong in those sports; you die!

      Your advice about staying away from hard objects is
      right on. I see people hopping up the beach with
      their kite overhead all the time. Many times right
      in front of a variety of solid skull smashing objects.

      When are people going to learn!? I am amazed by the
      way many riders totally ignore or disregard obvious
      dangers.


      -Hein van Swaay



      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: wyndjunkie2000 [mailto:wyndjunkie@...]
      > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 4:21 PM
      > To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [ksurf] Re: are boxers low aspect high performance ??
      >
      >
      >
      > is there anyone out there that knows anything about the boxer
      > kite,or has seen them from a distance even. seems like there's no
      > one on the other end unless your selling some safety idea... leash
      > strap or some gimick that won't save people anyway!!! stay away from
      > large imovable objects. hows that for a safety system. not trying to
      > be rude at all I've flown hanggliders for years and all this safety
      > stuff is a mask for good common sense. (IN FLYING)dont do arabatics
      > under 1000 ft, it takes 500 feet to realize somthing isn't right.
      > 200 feet to respond to that, and not much left for the chute to
      > deploy. don't kite with any object at least a football field away.
      > if you do you are taking your chances, you most likely will not have
      > the time or the sense to respond... a shackle with a release ball
      > and an o shit loop is hard to beat. only thing better is common
      > sense. no disrespect to anyone killed or injured. this(EXTREME)
      > sport has risks. (not to say there aren't freak accidents). I have
      > lost 3 good friends in flying and again common sense would have
      > saved every one of them. this is a high risk sport treat it as
      > such... now any one know anything about the boxer kite?? J
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "wyndjunkie2000" <wyndjunkie@m...>
      > wrote:
      > > or are they a one size fits all I have a friend that lives in
      > maui
      > > and according to him some of the people on the beach that could
      > have
      > > the kites of there choice are in fact choosing and riding
      > > boxers... could it be that boxers are just like the aero 1 with
      > the
      > > turning ability of the aero 2. I am just alittle confused as to
      > why
      > > I might need an x3 or v4 when some of the top riders are riding
      > > boxers who knows they may just be out of cash this season.
      > > highly unlikely!. I would love some input from some experienced
      > > riders that own or have ridden the boxer, maybe compared to other
      > > naish kites. I have read info on all and have ridden everything
      > > but the v4 and the boxer. naish has a wonderful way of
      > highlighting
      > > the kites attributes without ever really telling you anything I
      > > think the boxer might be a low aspect high performance kite sold
      > at
      > > a low price point just to attract new blood J
      >
      >
      > This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com Kitesurfing
      >
      http://www.KiteHIGH.com
      ph: 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA or
      ph: 1 808 637 KITE (5483)
      Em: support@...

      == to unsubscribe send an email to kitesurf-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      or go to www.yahoogroups.com/group/kitesurf ==

      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
      http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    • woodman_k
      Hein I just got a 14m nitro and had 3 days on it and so far I like the system and kite. The bar and the long center leader bugs me a bit too but once your
      Message 2 of 11 , Dec 1, 2003
        Hein

        I just got a 14m nitro and had 3 days on it and so far I like the
        system and kite. The bar and the long center leader bugs me a bit too
        but once your going it looks as clean as it can be.....spinning
        leash blabla. The velcro release must be always checked preflight as
        that seems a bit sensitive to user error!!!

        Please explain what happened to te guy who set up the recon wrong.
        Was there sand jamming the leaders causing one side to be powered and
        the other fully stalled? I would imagine that would cause havoc on
        launch! I have self launched 3 times now on sand and no probs but I
        am concerned about this part.

        Cheers
        Stan

        PS Where can I get some texalium?

        --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "Hein van Swaay" <hein@I...> wrote:
        > I'm interested in the Boxer too. I currently ride
        > SS GTOs and I love a lower aspect kite. The GTO's
        > won't be available in 2004. (big mistake IMO)
        >
        > I ride unshackled and with my kite low and in the power.
        > mostly with a much smaller kite than my bros who
        > are scared to death to have their kite swing through
        > the power.
        >
        > I love to do unhooked moves. It opens up a whole new
        > chapter of fun stuff to try.
        >
        > I looked at the Cabrinha but the Recon is to complicated
        > and prone to failures plus I don't want their power lock
        > bar. I saw a guy get lofted when he set up his Recon wrong
        > and had the line at the trailing edge partially tensioned.
        >
        > Maybe I can talk South Padre Island Kiteboarding into
        > letting me try a Boxer. They have some in stock and
        > I'll let you know if I get a chance to ride one.
        >
        > In regards to your view of kiting safety...
        >
        > I agree totally. In fact, all the recent flurry of
        > 'safety systems' designed by people who aren't even
        > real engineers is making this sport 'seem' safe to many
        > newbies. They think they can detach when in fact they
        > can't. That's been sadly proven by many experienced
        > kiters who have died by lofting and/or dragging. I've
        > seen many people get lofted and dragged. It only takes
        > one hard object to turn these seemingly innocent and
        > sometimes even comical incidents into a tragedy.
        >
        > Kitesurfing companies need to apply some serious failure
        > modes and effects analysis. And do a much better job making
        > people aware of the REAL dangers that are related to
        > location and wind conditions. I don't think either is
        > being done. This is not windsurfing, snowboarding or
        > wakeboarding and any analogies made to these sports is only
        > further masking the risks. It's more like hang gliding,
        > acrobatic flying and parachuting! When two or more things
        > go wrong in those sports; you die!
        >
        > Your advice about staying away from hard objects is
        > right on. I see people hopping up the beach with
        > their kite overhead all the time. Many times right
        > in front of a variety of solid skull smashing objects.
        >
        > When are people going to learn!? I am amazed by the
        > way many riders totally ignore or disregard obvious
        > dangers.
        >
        >
        > -Hein van Swaay
        >
        >
        >
        > > -----Original Message-----
        > > From: wyndjunkie2000 [mailto:wyndjunkie@m...]
        > > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 4:21 PM
        > > To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
        > > Subject: [ksurf] Re: are boxers low aspect high performance ??
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > is there anyone out there that knows anything about the boxer
        > > kite,or has seen them from a distance even. seems like there's no
        > > one on the other end unless your selling some safety idea...
        leash
        > > strap or some gimick that won't save people anyway!!! stay away
        from
        > > large imovable objects. hows that for a safety system. not trying
        to
        > > be rude at all I've flown hanggliders for years and all this
        safety
        > > stuff is a mask for good common sense. (IN FLYING)dont do
        arabatics
        > > under 1000 ft, it takes 500 feet to realize somthing isn't right.
        > > 200 feet to respond to that, and not much left for the chute to
        > > deploy. don't kite with any object at least a football field
        away.
        > > if you do you are taking your chances, you most likely will not
        have
        > > the time or the sense to respond... a shackle with a release
        ball
        > > and an o shit loop is hard to beat. only thing better is common
        > > sense. no disrespect to anyone killed or injured. this(EXTREME)
        > > sport has risks. (not to say there aren't freak accidents). I
        have
        > > lost 3 good friends in flying and again common sense would have
        > > saved every one of them. this is a high risk sport treat it
        as
        > > such... now any one know anything about the boxer kite?? J
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "wyndjunkie2000"
        <wyndjunkie@m...>
        > > wrote:
        > > > or are they a one size fits all I have a friend that lives in
        > > maui
        > > > and according to him some of the people on the beach that could
        > > have
        > > > the kites of there choice are in fact choosing and riding
        > > > boxers... could it be that boxers are just like the aero 1
        with
        > > the
        > > > turning ability of the aero 2. I am just alittle confused as
        to
        > > why
        > > > I might need an x3 or v4 when some of the top riders are riding
        > > > boxers who knows they may just be out of cash this season.
        > > > highly unlikely!. I would love some input from some
        experienced
        > > > riders that own or have ridden the boxer, maybe compared to
        other
        > > > naish kites. I have read info on all and have ridden
        everything
        > > > but the v4 and the boxer. naish has a wonderful way of
        > > highlighting
        > > > the kites attributes without ever really telling you anything
        I
        > > > think the boxer might be a low aspect high performance kite
        sold
        > > at
        > > > a low price point just to attract new blood J
        > >
        > >
        > > This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com Kitesurfing
        > >
        > http://www.KiteHIGH.com
        > ph: 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA or
        > ph: 1 808 637 KITE (5483)
        > Em: support@k...
        >
        > == to unsubscribe send an email to kitesurf-
        unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > or go to www.yahoogroups.com/group/kitesurf ==
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
        > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      • Reinaldo Garcia
        i have a 17m co2 in miami. ive had 2 problems with the recon features: (1) today i was a bit overpowered (20-24kts) dropped the kite. when trying to relaunch
        Message 3 of 11 , Dec 1, 2003
          i have a 17m co2 in miami.
          ive had 2 problems with the recon features:

          (1)
          today i was a bit overpowered (20-24kts)
          dropped the kite. when trying to relaunch with the recon systm i got
          tossed/dragged/thrown around quite a bit untill i realized it the lines on
          one side were somehow shorter.
          by then i had lost sight of my board in the waves and i had to body drag out
          of the water.
          during this time i had a very hard time controlling the kite and almost lost
          my board.

          on land i checked the recon system and found one side had jammed, the recon
          bullet was out of place and had tied up.
          i was lucky i was out in deep water when this happened, far from land and
          "hard objects".

          (2)
          as for self-launching from sand, i once left the kite for about 10 min
          flapping in the wind. when launching, the same thing happened and the kite
          did the "death spin". though that time i blamed myself for not walking the
          lines, i just did a visual check right before launching.

          ----

          the whole experience makes me think the relaunch part of recon is probably a
          bit too complex. (the depower feature ive had no problems)

          conclusion:
          (1) i will avoid using the recon to water relaunch
          (2) always always check the recon system on the side of the kite (bullet,
          etc) make sure it's not tangled by the wind right before launching.

          have fun...
        • Reinaldo Garcia
          i just realized that recon tangled bullet issue may have been the reason why alex s kite suddenly launched off the water. he would have had no time to
          Message 4 of 11 , Dec 1, 2003
            i just realized that recon "tangled bullet" issue may have been the reason
            why alex's kite suddenly launched off the water. he would have had no time
            to realize the lines were shorter, what was going on and how to control the
            kite.

            ( ** it's just a thought because i've only heard couple of rumors about how
            that accident happened)
          • Emilia Naoumova
            Hi Guys, I am looking for a site where where I can download some pictures of the new Slinshot Fuel Splitstrut kite. I have checked already the side of
            Message 5 of 11 , Dec 2, 2003
              Hi Guys,

              I am looking for a site where where I can download some pictures of the new Slinshot Fuel Splitstrut kite. I have checked already the side of Slingshot but I can't copie a picture from there. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

              Thank you
              Emilia


              Reinaldo Garcia <rgarcia@...> wrote:
              i have a 17m co2 in miami.
              ive had 2 problems with the recon features:

              (1)
              today i was a bit overpowered (20-24kts)
              dropped the kite. when trying to relaunch with the recon systm i got
              tossed/dragged/thrown around quite a bit untill i realized it the lines on
              one side were somehow shorter.
              by then i had lost sight of my board in the waves and i had to body drag out
              of the water.
              during this time i had a very hard time controlling the kite and almost lost
              my board.

              on land i checked the recon system and found one side had jammed, the recon
              bullet was out of place and had tied up.
              i was lucky i was out in deep water when this happened, far from land and
              "hard objects".

              (2)
              as for self-launching from sand, i once left the kite for about 10 min
              flapping in the wind. when launching, the same thing happened and the kite
              did the "death spin". though that time i blamed myself for not walking the
              lines, i just did a visual check right before launching.

              ----

              the whole experience makes me think the relaunch part of recon is probably a
              bit too complex. (the depower feature ive had no problems)

              conclusion:
              (1) i will avoid using the recon to water relaunch
              (2) always always check the recon system on the side of the kite (bullet,
              etc) make sure it's not tangled by the wind right before launching.

              have fun...



              This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com Kitesurfing

              http://www.KiteHIGH.com
              ph: 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA or
              ph: 1 808 637 KITE (5483)
              Em: support@...

              == to unsubscribe send an email to kitesurf-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com or go to www.yahoogroups.com/group/kitesurf ==

              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



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            • whysail
              I have a 12 and 9 Boxer, and have flown the 16. I too like mid aspect kites and really like the boxers, expecially in the small sizes. They come with 22?
              Message 6 of 11 , Dec 2, 2003
                I have a 12 and 9 Boxer, and have flown the 16. I too like mid aspect
                kites and really like the boxers, expecially in the small sizes. They
                come with 22? meters of lines, and you won't be able to tell the
                difference. (I typically fly Fuels with 27m). We sell them as our
                beginner kites, but my intentions are to get them in the surf. They
                are stable, turn around them selves(underloop easy)and can be flown
                overpowered. It is almost impossible to overfly the window. (see why
                I want it in the surf!)You won't jump as high as an X4, Rhino 4, but
                you'll stay in the air as long.

                I love Slingshots, but the Boxer is a way better kite than the GTO
                imho.

                I suggest youm try one. You can try one of ours if in Houston, or
                talk Shane or Cliff in SPI into trying one of theirs. They are
                hosting the demo in FEB again if you can wait that long, Naish will
                be there for sure.

                Charlie
              • whysail
                Go to site, open the check out 2004 product . The PDF program will open, go to PIC you want and click on the box at top next to the hand, it will say select
                Message 7 of 11 , Dec 2, 2003
                  Go to site, open the "check out 2004 product". The PDF program will
                  open, go to PIC you want and click on the box at top next to the
                  hand, it will say select text or select picture, pick picture, click
                  on pic you want and it will be in your clipboard.

                  Have fun, the '04 kites great!
                  Charlie
                • Kite Power (Sydney)
                  Hi Boxers are by the 2003/2004 standard, medium aspect ratio kites, 1-2 years ago they would have been rated high ar kites! Ar is only one part of a kites
                  Message 8 of 11 , Dec 2, 2003
                    Hi
                    Boxers are by the 2003/2004 standard, medium aspect ratio kites, 1-2 years
                    ago they would have been rated high ar kites!
                    Ar is only one part of a kites design, you should never judge any kite with
                    an ar over 5 to 1 and dismiss it as too high ar.
                    4-5 to 1 is medium, and 1-3 is low, in kites IMO
                    The Boxer is a great all round kite, and Naish have decided to mmke a bit
                    less money from them, to retain market share, thats the truth about them!
                    The kite turns tight with medium to light bar pressure, forward flight speed
                    is not the fastest, but as good or better than many so called high
                    performance/high AR kites from other makers.
                    It has a great safety system, and I would recommend it to anyone, of any
                    skill level.
                    I agree that we need to promote safe kiting much better, too many desperate
                    players in the market now, too many poorly trained, uncaring instructors,
                    too many team riders dumping product on the beaches, often with no real
                    lesson, if it keeps up there will be no-where left to do the sport!
                    Cya and
                    Goodwinds
                    Steve McCormack
                    www.kitepower.com.au
                  • Philip Mann
                    I have been flying the boxers for a few months and am very happy with the performamce. It is important to know what I like to see if this pertains to you. I
                    Message 9 of 11 , Dec 8, 2003
                      I have been flying the boxers for a few months and am very happy with
                      the performamce.
                      It is important to know what I like to see if this pertains to you.
                      I like moderate aspect kites, I like a kite that stays back in the
                      window a bit so i can load up against it quickly. I like a
                      predictable kite as I like to spin and have my eyes off the kite a
                      bit.

                      The Boxer is a high performance kite and it is lower aspect.
                      It jumps surpsingly well.

                      Great kite for aerial transitions, spins and to whip sytle jumps.

                      Hein, I owe you one, so If you want me to send you a kite to try let
                      me know.

                      Philip
                      kitesite.net






                      --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "wyndjunkie2000" <wyndjunkie@m...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > is there anyone out there that knows anything about the boxer
                      > kite,or has seen them from a distance even. seems like there's no
                      > one on the other end unless your selling some safety idea... leash
                      > strap or some gimick that won't save people anyway!!! stay away
                      from
                      > large imovable objects. hows that for a safety system. not trying
                      to
                      > be rude at all I've flown hanggliders for years and all this
                      safety
                      > stuff is a mask for good common sense. (IN FLYING)dont do arabatics
                      > under 1000 ft, it takes 500 feet to realize somthing isn't right.
                      > 200 feet to respond to that, and not much left for the chute to
                      > deploy. don't kite with any object at least a football field away.
                      > if you do you are taking your chances, you most likely will not
                      have
                      > the time or the sense to respond... a shackle with a release ball
                      > and an o shit loop is hard to beat. only thing better is common
                      > sense. no disrespect to anyone killed or injured. this(EXTREME)
                      > sport has risks. (not to say there aren't freak accidents). I have
                      > lost 3 good friends in flying and again common sense would have
                      > saved every one of them. this is a high risk sport treat it as
                      > such... now any one know anything about the boxer kite?? J
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "wyndjunkie2000" <wyndjunkie@m...>
                      > wrote:
                      > > or are they a one size fits all I have a friend that lives in
                      > maui
                      > > and according to him some of the people on the beach that could
                      > have
                      > > the kites of there choice are in fact choosing and riding
                      > > boxers... could it be that boxers are just like the aero 1 with
                      > the
                      > > turning ability of the aero 2. I am just alittle confused as to
                      > why
                      > > I might need an x3 or v4 when some of the top riders are riding
                      > > boxers who knows they may just be out of cash this season.
                      > > highly unlikely!. I would love some input from some experienced
                      > > riders that own or have ridden the boxer, maybe compared to other
                      > > naish kites. I have read info on all and have ridden everything
                      > > but the v4 and the boxer. naish has a wonderful way of
                      > highlighting
                      > > the kites attributes without ever really telling you anything I
                      > > think the boxer might be a low aspect high performance kite sold
                      > at
                      > > a low price point just to attract new blood J
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