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Re: [ksurf] More accident statistics -3rd Party Results?

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  • LA2WNDSRF@aol.com
    In a message dated 10/6/2003 7:23:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time, flkitesurfer@hotmail.com writes: There were cases in South Africa, Mexico, California and the UK
    Message 1 of 5 , Oct 6, 2003
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      In a message dated 10/6/2003 7:23:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
      flkitesurfer@... writes:
      There were cases in South Africa, Mexico, California and the UK
      listed in the KSI involving bystander injuries off the top of my
      head. Two of the accidents involved kites that had been secured
      inadequately coming free and flying off to injure bystanders. The
      one in Mexico involved an instructor insisting on teaching without a
      kite leash. The runaway kite caught and injured a girl. The one in
      California is one that you probably know about involving the girl
      with the face cut. There is another one that takes place in Italy
      that is in preparation that involved minor injuries to an older
      women, no kite leash and a law suit. There may be others but I will
      have to look through the KSI to see what I ended up writing on this
      touchy subject. More details could be added upon request
      As you seem to state, there are very few 3rd party injuries to do even
      a rough actuarial, so far.
      I hope there are properly generated facts on these 3rd Party incidents.
      Less than a dozen 3rd Party injuries over the past 5 years is hard to believe.
      I hope there is not a lot of heresay; first hand eye-witness accounts would
      be best.
      Since so much prejudice is developed from 'what-ifs' and
      'what-might-have-happened'
      type thinking instead of real incidents.

      A kiter friend of mine over the weekend related 'only' the 2nd Third Party
      incident that I've heard in 3 years at notorious Cabrillo Beach - a kiter
      ignored warnings about were to down the kite and hit a child and father and knocked
      them down. The kid laughed and thought it
      was funny, the Father was relieved about that and did nothing further. Some
      people might
      say we were 'lucky'. But the angle of the kite was flying to the edge of the
      window anyways
      because it was landing and really didn't have a full force on it. No injury,
      no problem.
      Still, the LA County lifeguards looked at it grimly and probably calmly
      inserted that
      incident into there ammunition belt for the future. Yet, nothing was written
      up.
      Of course, never mind the fact that many other beach incidents of injuries
      took place in those 3 years, for example: waves knocked down waders here too,
      like any other beach.
      Maybe they can ban waves or waders, since they hurt themselves from time to
      time? lol

      Scott


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • flkitesurfer
      My point about this being a touchy subject is well founded. The KSI does not contain all accidents and incidents that have happened, of course. I have
      Message 2 of 5 , Oct 7, 2003
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        My point about this being a "touchy subject" is well founded. The
        KSI does not contain all accidents and incidents that have happened,
        of course. I have suspected for quite a long time that there have
        been a fair quantity of third party incidents that I don't hear
        about. Wanting to keep publicity to a minimum and to manage things
        locally is understandable of course. Also the desire to avoid
        establishing a negative precident is significant. I intentionallly
        leave out exact accident locations trying to be sensitive to local
        access concerns. The location although of interest is not critical
        to most KSI accounts the lessons from the accident can be however.

        The problem is that too many riders are indifferent to hazards both
        to themselves and others because they deny that something bad might
        happen or the though never even enters there head. Spreading and
        talking about actual incidents and accidents is one way to try to
        remedy this sad state of affairs. Rider need to learn and
        appreciate what can and has gone wrong to follow more responsible
        practices. It is unfortunate that reason alone doesn't seem to work
        but it doesn't seem to for many individuals.

        Reality doesn't care what we believe it only acts on what we do.

        Anyone is free to contact me privately in confidence with a
        confirmed account and I will work with you to write up a limited
        account that doesn't highlight a specific area or individual. I
        have even left out gender before and even what part of the country
        it is in. The lessons are more important than these specifics.

        FKA, Inc.

        transcribed by:
        Rick Iossi

        --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, LA2WNDSRF@a... wrote:
        > In a message dated 10/6/2003 7:23:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
        > flkitesurfer@h... writes:
        > There were cases in South Africa, Mexico, California and the UK
        > listed in the KSI involving bystander injuries off the top of my
        > head. Two of the accidents involved kites that had been secured
        > inadequately coming free and flying off to injure bystanders. The
        > one in Mexico involved an instructor insisting on teaching without
        a
        > kite leash. The runaway kite caught and injured a girl. The one
        in
        > California is one that you probably know about involving the girl
        > with the face cut. There is another one that takes place in Italy
        > that is in preparation that involved minor injuries to an older
        > women, no kite leash and a law suit. There may be others but I
        will
        > have to look through the KSI to see what I ended up writing on
        this
        > touchy subject. More details could be added upon request
        > As you seem to state, there are very few 3rd party injuries to do
        even
        > a rough actuarial, so far.
        > I hope there are properly generated facts on these 3rd Party
        incidents.
        > Less than a dozen 3rd Party injuries over the past 5 years is hard
        to believe.
        > I hope there is not a lot of heresay; first hand eye-witness
        accounts would
        > be best.
        > Since so much prejudice is developed from 'what-ifs' and
        > 'what-might-have-happened'
        > type thinking instead of real incidents.
        >
        > A kiter friend of mine over the weekend related 'only' the 2nd
        Third Party
        > incident that I've heard in 3 years at notorious Cabrillo Beach -
        a kiter
        > ignored warnings about were to down the kite and hit a child and
        father and knocked
        > them down. The kid laughed and thought it
        > was funny, the Father was relieved about that and did nothing
        further. Some
        > people might
        > say we were 'lucky'. But the angle of the kite was flying to the
        edge of the
        > window anyways
        > because it was landing and really didn't have a full force on it.
        No injury,
        > no problem.
        > Still, the LA County lifeguards looked at it grimly and probably
        calmly
        > inserted that
        > incident into there ammunition belt for the future. Yet, nothing
        was written
        > up.
        > Of course, never mind the fact that many other beach incidents of
        injuries
        > took place in those 3 years, for example: waves knocked down
        waders here too,
        > like any other beach.
        > Maybe they can ban waves or waders, since they hurt themselves
        from time to
        > time? lol
        >
        > Scott
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • hungvuatnetcomdotca
        Very good suggestion! I will see if I can have the current table include that statistics. I will provide a copy of the next version of the table (a few
        Message 3 of 5 , Oct 7, 2003
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          Very good suggestion!

          I will see if I can have the current table include that statistics.

          I will provide a copy of the next version of the table (a few
          weeks/months from now) so that he can add more accidents in the future
          and the table will automatically update itself.

          Hung.

          --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, LA2WNDSRF@a... wrote:
          > hungvu2000@r... writes:
          >
          > > Out of the 105 accidents recorded in the KSI so far:
          >
          > Excellent examination, Hung.
          > If you have the inclination, can you see about 3rd party
          accidents/results to
          > unintentioned individuals or property, from the accidents listed
          -since those
          > lead to banning and/or decisions that affect us at locations, more
          so then
          > accidents to ourselves. At least that's what I've found.
          > Breaking down 3rd Party injuries, the way you have with 1st Party
          injuries,
          > should prove very interesting.
          >
          > Thanks
          > Scott
          > ps:btw, I'm interested professionaly since I am an insurance broker.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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