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RES: [ksurf] RE:design a better quick release was ( how to switch sides without getting lofted)

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  • Stefano Rosso
    your brain says im lofting or this gust is too much I wont be able to hold it and as soon as your brain says it you are released with one movement. My
    Message 1 of 20 , Oct 2, 2003
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      your brain says im lofting or this gust is too much I wont be able to
      hold it and as soon as your brain says it you are released with one
      movement.

      My experience in loftings has been that the brain always realizes that
      you are being lofted when you are way way up... You cannot know how high
      you will go until you are way way up there... And then your reaction is
      normally to grab the bar for dear life !
    • hungvuatnetcomdotca
      My experience so far is that if I hooked in, I would not be able to unhook until 10 + high up (the time it take to do something, e.g., pulling on some release,
      Message 2 of 20 , Oct 2, 2003
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        My experience so far is that if I hooked in, I would not be able to
        unhook until 10'+ high up (the time it take to do something, e.g.,
        pulling on some release, would make it even higher).

        If I am unhooked (and not attached to the kite except for the "true"
        safety leash), the bar simply ripped right out of my hand (2
        occasions: one a few years ago with my wipika 3.5 in 35 - 40 knots -
        Luke Stanek, the world buggy fastest man was there - and the other
        case just recently with my AR5 11.5 in very steep wind gradient).
        This "skill" may not be automatic to some as stefano has stated but it
        can be learned.

        In any case, being unhooked (and not attached to the kite except for
        the "true" safety leash) when in doubt is desirable as after the
        initial contact, the kite is fully disable and cannot cause further
        damages (damage to the kitesurf or damage to the bystanders). Just
        imaging an injured, unconcious 170 lbs kitesurfer get dragged over an
        infant in the pinic area or the parking lot - kitesurfing will sure be
        banned immediately and indefinitely.

        Hung.

        --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "Stefano Rosso" <stefano.rosso@a...>
        wrote:
        > your brain says im lofting or this gust is too much I wont be able to
        > hold it and as soon as your brain says it you are released with one
        > movement.
        >
        > My experience in loftings has been that the brain always realizes that
        > you are being lofted when you are way way up... You cannot know how high
        > you will go until you are way way up there... And then your reaction is
        > normally to grab the bar for dear life !
      • Stefano Rosso
        If I am unhooked (and not attached to the kite except for the true safety leash), the bar simply ripped right out of my hand (2 occasions: one a few years
        Message 3 of 20 , Oct 2, 2003
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          If I am unhooked (and not attached to the kite except for the "true"
          safety leash), the bar simply ripped right out of my hand (2
          occasions: one a few years ago with my wipika 3.5 in 35 - 40 knots -
          Luke Stanek, the world buggy fastest man was there - and the other case
          just recently with my AR5 11.5 in very steep wind gradient).
          This "skill" may not be automatic to some as stefano has stated but it
          can be learned.

          == if the bar is getting ripped out of your hand then that's one thing.
          If you are getting lofted in such a way that the bar doesn't get ripped
          out of your hands then your first reaction is to try and control the
          kite ... Then you suddenly realize you are way up...
        • mobilekiteshop.com
          its all very well to say that you should be unhooked but the reality of the situation is that most people wont unhook, I could be out riding and I see a very
          Message 4 of 20 , Oct 2, 2003
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            its all very well to say that you should be unhooked but the reality of the
            situation is that most people wont unhook, I could be out riding and I see a
            very dark cloud coming and I would be very aware of a possible large change
            in the wind. So if for some reason it is not practical to come in or it is
            safer to stay far away from the shore in case of possible lofting I will
            ride with the kite as low as possible and when I tack I will turn the kite
            at the bottom of the window as much as possible and not let it rise up. At
            the same time I know if a huge gust comes in that in a split second I can be
            free of the kite with this type of punch out release whereas with all other
            forms of release that I know of I would have to go looking for some kind of
            grab ball, loop, quick release somewhere, how fast can you find and pull
            your quick release? if you get lofted how high does that extra time allow
            you to get.

            Pog ma hon
            Steve
            steve@... <mailto:steve@...>
            Ph: 087-7993612

            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          • hungvuatnetcomdotca
            The Ocean Rodeo definitely has an advantage in this situation. However, people should at least unhooked (and not attached to the kite except for the true
            Message 5 of 20 , Oct 2, 2003
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              The Ocean Rodeo definitely has an advantage in this situation.

              However, people should at least unhooked (and not attached to the kite
              except for the "true" safety leash) on land and near people/hard objects.

              Snowboarding was banned at many resorts in the early days because of
              comments like this from the skiers: "I don't mind snowboarders go out
              and kill themselves but it bothers me to watch an injured snowboarder
              hurt skiers".

              So injure or kill yourself, but once you become unconcious, please
              don't hurt or kill other people.

              Hung.

              --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "mobilekiteshop.com" <steve@m...> wrote:
              > its all very well to say that you should be unhooked but the reality
              of the
              > situation is that most people wont unhook, I could be out riding and
              I see a
              > very dark cloud coming and I would be very aware of a possible large
              change
              > in the wind. So if for some reason it is not practical to come in or
              it is
              > safer to stay far away from the shore in case of possible lofting I will
              > ride with the kite as low as possible and when I tack I will turn
              the kite
              > at the bottom of the window as much as possible and not let it rise
              up. At
              > the same time I know if a huge gust comes in that in a split second
              I can be
              > free of the kite with this type of punch out release whereas with
              all other
              > forms of release that I know of I would have to go looking for some
              kind of
              > grab ball, loop, quick release somewhere, how fast can you find and pull
              > your quick release? if you get lofted how high does that extra time
              allow
              > you to get.
              >
              > Pog ma hon
              > Steve
              > steve@m... <mailto:steve@m...>
              > Ph: 087-7993612
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            • mobilekiteshop.com
              I agree with you and its great to say that Hung but realistically people wont do it, I suppose I am changing the subject and considering quicker ways to
              Message 6 of 20 , Oct 2, 2003
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                I agree with you and its great to say that Hung but realistically people
                wont do it, I suppose I am changing the subject and considering quicker ways
                to activate your quick release, I think that the delay caused by having to
                let go of your bar and reaching somewhere else to activate your release
                increases risk and there should be a better way, maybe the release could be
                unde your hand on the bar somehow, I am sure someone here could work it out?


                Steve
                steve@... <mailto:steve@...>
                Ph: 087-7993612


                -----Original Message-----
                From: hungvuatnetcomdotca [mailto:hungvu2000@...]
                Sent: 03 October 2003 00:19
                To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: RES: [ksurf] RE:design a better quick release was ( how to
                switch sides with


                The Ocean Rodeo definitely has an advantage in this situation.

                However, people should at least unhooked (and not attached to the kite
                except for the "true" safety leash) on land and near people/hard objects.

                Snowboarding was banned at many resorts in the early days because of
                comments like this from the skiers: "I don't mind snowboarders go out
                and kill themselves but it bothers me to watch an injured snowboarder
                hurt skiers".

                So injure or kill yourself, but once you become unconcious, please
                don't hurt or kill other people.

                Hung.

                --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "mobilekiteshop.com" <steve@m...> wrote:
                > its all very well to say that you should be unhooked but the reality
                of the
                > situation is that most people wont unhook, I could be out riding and
                I see a
                > very dark cloud coming and I would be very aware of a possible large
                change
                > in the wind. So if for some reason it is not practical to come in or
                it is
                > safer to stay far away from the shore in case of possible lofting I will
                > ride with the kite as low as possible and when I tack I will turn
                the kite
                > at the bottom of the window as much as possible and not let it rise
                up. At
                > the same time I know if a huge gust comes in that in a split second
                I can be
                > free of the kite with this type of punch out release whereas with
                all other
                > forms of release that I know of I would have to go looking for some
                kind of
                > grab ball, loop, quick release somewhere, how fast can you find and pull
                > your quick release? if you get lofted how high does that extra time
                allow
                > you to get.
                >
                > Pog ma hon
                > Steve
                > steve@m... <mailto:steve@m...>
                > Ph: 087-7993612
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


                This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com Kitesurfing

                http://www.KiteHIGH.com
                ph: 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA or
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              • Jan Coffey
                A few thoughts: The Naish system is greate becouse you can use it on any kite. The new Naish system is simply a free bar, when the bar is unhooked, and a
                Message 7 of 20 , Oct 2, 2003
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                  A few thoughts:

                  The Naish system is greate becouse you can use it on any kite.

                  The new Naish system is simply a free bar, when the bar is unhooked,
                  and a regular bar when it is hooked in. That means that going
                  unhooked is not really being unhooked. It's simply trasfering to a
                  free bar. I haven't used it, but one would think that if the intent
                  were an unhooked railie, with the bar at arms leangth and the kite
                  fully powered, with the naish system, you're not going to get this.

                  The new naish system has no way of simply releasing the bar for full
                  depower. (Sorry, but isn't %100 depower mean the kite has NO power?)

                  At some point transfering the load to the front lines stops
                  depowering the kite. On my North and old Naish kites you can get to
                  this point with the bar still attached. I know this becouse I rigged
                  free bar for a while and there is a point were it's depowered as
                  much as it is going to without landing it, or releasing one side of
                  the kite. I stoped riging free bar, becouse this point was well
                  within the normal "throw" I used at that time.

                  The swivil leash looks to me like it's still going to get tangled. I
                  designed a bar with a swiveling leash the line covered in plastic
                  and it still tangled and got in the way. What happens when you go
                  for a spin, then end up letting go of the bar and regrabing the bar
                  from the other side of the leash? You can get that leash wrapped
                  around the bar. Then what? No reride will work if the bar is hung up
                  at the rider. What about the leash getting wrapped around the hook?
                  It looks to me like you could spin the bar and it would spin around
                  the leash then you would have to manulay reach down and untwist the
                  leash by making the swivil go around. What if you get in trouble
                  right at that moment? Everyone who tried swivels knows that they
                  don't always turn on their own.

                  I know I'm on a Cab kick right now, but here me out. If you don't
                  want a "drop the bar" kind of leash system the Recon works greate.
                  See my erlier post. The kite doesn't reride, spin around slam into
                  the shore etc. It folds up and depowers by at least %98 if not more
                  (remember %100 means NO power at all).

                  If you don't want to launch hooked or you like being able to just
                  drop the bar the Recon will do this as well. The system works
                  becouse when the load is fully transfered to the back lines the kite
                  will fold up. If you simply attach a line to both back lines behind
                  the rings, then letting go of the bar will engage the Recon system
                  becouse all of the load will be on the back lines. The kite will
                  softly glide down directly down wind. Not spin and violently drag
                  you for another 100 meters, but disingage, and fully depower.

                  And to top it off, you get a bit of help relaunching to boot.

                  Hay I'm certainly no pro, I pay what everyone else does for my gear.
                  I don't have anything at all to do with any Kite company. That's why
                  I feel free to speak my mind and tell it the way I see it. Still
                  these are just my opinions. Opinions are like butts, everyones got
                  one.
                • Suntrax
                  ... No, not practical Am finished with this subject unless Hung, you actualy try the UDS with your own 2 hands and THEN comment, I get enough keyboard
                  Message 8 of 20 , Oct 3, 2003
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                    > Can you pull on the button to release the safety leash from the strap
                    > first (to make it a traditional safety leash) before launching the
                    > kite unhooked
                    >and then latter on reconnect it while in the water?

                    No, not practical

                    Am finished with this subject unless Hung, you actualy try the UDS with your
                    own 2 hands and THEN comment, I get enough keyboard theorists in my store
                    every day :-)

                    Out

                    Brian

                    > Hung.
                    >
                    > --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "Suntrax" <brian@s...> wrote:
                    > > Hung
                    > >
                    > > I don't think I said it was safer than anything, other than being
                    > hooked in.
                    > > Yes you must release the bar and then activate an eye level quick
                    > release.
                    > > Myself and Rob Munroe have previously given a description and
                    > explanation of
                    > > the UDS and it's advantages. I don't think any current system is
                    > foolproof
                    > > or 100% safe but the UDS is a step in the right direction that also
                    > includes
                    > > a functioning spinning leash, itself a safety feature that negates the
                    > > excuse that leashes reduce spinning ability, therefore enjoyment.
                    > > To those who negatively criticise the Naish UDS without having tried
                    > it, I
                    > > would suggest that you test it, but be prepared for a pleasant
                    > surprise!.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Best regards
                    > >
                    > > Brian
                    > >
                    > > (========o]></
                    > >
                    > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~
                    > >
                    > > Brian Wilson
                    > > Suntrax
                    > > Tel/fax 27 (0)21 5560044
                    > > cell; 0824656696
                    > > www.suntrax.co.za
                    > > info@s...
                    > > Open 7/12/363
                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > From: "hungvuatnetcomdotca" <hungvu2000@r...>
                    > > To: <kitesurf@yahoogroups.com>
                    > > Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 6:26 PM
                    > > Subject: [ksurf] Re: how to switch sides without getting lofted?
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > > Brian,
                    > > >
                    > > > How is this system safer than the "free bar" system that lifted Mel
                    > > > 20' up in the air on land a few months ago? Can you simply drop the
                    > > > bar (like in any standard bar) or do you have to drop the bar and pull
                    > > > on some magic QR button?
                    > > >
                    > > > Hung.
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "Suntrax" <brian@s...> wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Hey Steffano
                    > > > >
                    > > > > The fact that Naish is just a more sophisticated design and for
                    > normal
                    > > > > flying does not need the same amount of depower as a Wipika :-) is
                    > > > not the
                    > > > > issue here, or the subject, the point is that the Naish UDS
                    > allows safe,
                    > > > > UNHOOKED, light steering while, in this case, flying the kite safely
                    > > > across
                    > > > > the zenith and the ability to easily hook up again, ALL while
                    > > > supporting the
                    > > > > weight and pull of the kite in your harness.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Brian
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > > == double the normal naish depower is the same as the standard
                    > wipika
                    > > > > > depower so big whoppee ! Here we go again with the 200% depower !
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Hi David
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > This is where the new Naish UDS system will go a long way in
                    > improving
                    > > > > > safety, it allows you to be unhooked but with double the
                    > normal Naish
                    > > > > > depower yet still have the light steering associated with
                    > being hooked
                    > > > > > in. At the same time the UDS acts as a safety leash with full
                    > spinning
                    > > > > > capability. Not perfect but getting there!
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Best regards
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Brian
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com Kitesurfing
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > http://www.KiteHIGH.com
                    > > > > > ph: 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA or
                    > > > > > ph: 1 808 637 KITE (5483)
                    > > > > > Em: support@k...
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                    > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    > > > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com Kitesurfing
                    > > >
                    > > > http://www.KiteHIGH.com
                    > > > ph: 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA or
                    > > > ph: 1 808 637 KITE (5483)
                    > > > Em: support@k...
                    > > >
                    > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                    > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com Kitesurfing
                    >
                    > http://www.KiteHIGH.com
                    > ph: 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA or
                    > ph: 1 808 637 KITE (5483)
                    > Em: support@...
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    >
                  • hungvuatnetcomdotca
                    ... Thanks. If I cannot launch the kite unhooked (truly unhooked not fake unhooked) then please don t invite me to try it as it may injure or kill me. I
                    Message 9 of 20 , Oct 3, 2003
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                      --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "Suntrax" <brian@s...> wrote:
                      > > Can you pull on the button to release the safety leash from the strap
                      > > first (to make it a traditional safety leash) before launching the
                      > > kite unhooked
                      > >and then latter on reconnect it while in the water?
                      >
                      > No, not practical

                      Thanks. If I cannot launch the kite unhooked (truly unhooked not
                      "fake" unhooked) then please don't invite me to try it as it may
                      injure or kill me.

                      I will give Recon a try as I think I can launch it unhooked with a
                      traditional wrist safety leash and then later on locked into the
                      chicken loop and transfer (tie) the wrist safety leash to the bar
                      while in deep water.

                      Hung.
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