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RES: [ksurf] Re: how to switch sides without getting lofted?

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  • Stefano Rosso
    Brian, I am also interested in understanding how the UDS bar works... From what I saw, I could not see the difference between the UDS and a free bar (except
    Message 1 of 20 , Oct 2, 2003
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      Brian,

      I am also interested in understanding how the UDS bar works... From what
      I saw, I could not see the difference between the UDS and a free bar
      (except the UDS bar has a professional finish, and the rotating leash
      looks very good too). But from the safety aspect, what I understand
      happens is that if you release the bar (and are unhooked) then the leash
      will pull on your harness and on the front lines of the kite... So it
      wont depower much... And if the bar is out of your hands and the kite
      starts to dive then you are F***ED...

      What have I not understood ?

      Thanks
      stefano


      Brian,

      How is this system safer than the "free bar" system that lifted Mel 20'
      up in the air on land a few months ago? Can you simply drop the bar
      (like in any standard bar) or do you have to drop the bar and pull on
      some magic QR button?

      Hung.

      --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "Suntrax" <brian@s...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > Hey Steffano
      >
      > The fact that Naish is just a more sophisticated design and for normal

      > flying does not need the same amount of depower as a Wipika :-) is
      not the
      > issue here, or the subject, the point is that the Naish UDS allows
      > safe, UNHOOKED, light steering while, in this case, flying the kite
      > safely
      across
      > the zenith and the ability to easily hook up again, ALL while
      supporting the
      > weight and pull of the kite in your harness.
      >
      > Brian
      >
      >
      > > == double the normal naish depower is the same as the standard
      > > wipika depower so big whoppee ! Here we go again with the 200%
      > > depower !
      > >
      > >
      > > Hi David
      > >
      > > This is where the new Naish UDS system will go a long way in
      > > improving safety, it allows you to be unhooked but with double the
      > > normal Naish depower yet still have the light steering associated
      > > with being hooked in. At the same time the UDS acts as a safety
      > > leash with full spinning capability. Not perfect but getting there!
      > >
      > > Best regards
      > >
      > > Brian
      > >
      > >
      > > This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com Kitesurfing
      > >
      > > http://www.KiteHIGH.com
      > > ph: 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA or
      > > ph: 1 808 637 KITE (5483)
      > > Em: support@k...
      > >
      > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
      http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      > >


      This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com Kitesurfing

      http://www.KiteHIGH.com
      ph: 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA or
      ph: 1 808 637 KITE (5483)
      Em: support@...

      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
      http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    • Suntrax
      Hung I don t think I said it was safer than anything, other than being hooked in. Yes you must release the bar and then activate an eye level quick release.
      Message 2 of 20 , Oct 2, 2003
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        Hung

        I don't think I said it was safer than anything, other than being hooked in.
        Yes you must release the bar and then activate an eye level quick release.
        Myself and Rob Munroe have previously given a description and explanation of
        the UDS and it's advantages. I don't think any current system is foolproof
        or 100% safe but the UDS is a step in the right direction that also includes
        a functioning spinning leash, itself a safety feature that negates the
        excuse that leashes reduce spinning ability, therefore enjoyment.
        To those who negatively criticise the Naish UDS without having tried it, I
        would suggest that you test it, but be prepared for a pleasant surprise!.


        Best regards

        Brian

        (========o]></

        ~~~~~~~~~~~~

        Brian Wilson
        Suntrax
        Tel/fax 27 (0)21 5560044
        cell; 0824656696
        www.suntrax.co.za
        info@...
        Open 7/12/363
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "hungvuatnetcomdotca" <hungvu2000@...>
        To: <kitesurf@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 6:26 PM
        Subject: [ksurf] Re: how to switch sides without getting lofted?


        > Brian,
        >
        > How is this system safer than the "free bar" system that lifted Mel
        > 20' up in the air on land a few months ago? Can you simply drop the
        > bar (like in any standard bar) or do you have to drop the bar and pull
        > on some magic QR button?
        >
        > Hung.
        >
        > --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "Suntrax" <brian@s...> wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > > Hey Steffano
        > >
        > > The fact that Naish is just a more sophisticated design and for normal
        > > flying does not need the same amount of depower as a Wipika :-) is
        > not the
        > > issue here, or the subject, the point is that the Naish UDS allows safe,
        > > UNHOOKED, light steering while, in this case, flying the kite safely
        > across
        > > the zenith and the ability to easily hook up again, ALL while
        > supporting the
        > > weight and pull of the kite in your harness.
        > >
        > > Brian
        > >
        > >
        > > > == double the normal naish depower is the same as the standard wipika
        > > > depower so big whoppee ! Here we go again with the 200% depower !
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Hi David
        > > >
        > > > This is where the new Naish UDS system will go a long way in improving
        > > > safety, it allows you to be unhooked but with double the normal Naish
        > > > depower yet still have the light steering associated with being hooked
        > > > in. At the same time the UDS acts as a safety leash with full spinning
        > > > capability. Not perfect but getting there!
        > > >
        > > > Best regards
        > > >
        > > > Brian
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com Kitesurfing
        > > >
        > > > http://www.KiteHIGH.com
        > > > ph: 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA or
        > > > ph: 1 808 637 KITE (5483)
        > > > Em: support@k...
        > > >
        > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
        > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        > > >
        >
        >
        > This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com Kitesurfing
        >
        > http://www.KiteHIGH.com
        > ph: 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA or
        > ph: 1 808 637 KITE (5483)
        > Em: support@...
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
      • Suntrax
        Hi Stefano Please also read my answer to Hung. You are generally correct except that if you have to let go of the bar, the Quick Release is right in front of
        Message 3 of 20 , Oct 2, 2003
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          Hi Stefano

          Please also read my answer to Hung.
          You are generally correct except that if you have to let go of the bar, the
          Quick Release is right in front of your eyes at the bottom of the
          depower-strap part of the UDS system, which then acts on one middle line
          like most modern (production)leashes. There is then another QR if you have
          to dump everything.
          You have to try it to understand it, I was also very sceptical beforehand
          and I reiterate, it is not the ultimate answer to all safety concerns, but I
          don't think Naish hyped it as such.

          Best regards

          Brian

          (========o]></

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~

          Brian Wilson
          Suntrax
          Tel/fax 27 (0)21 5560044
          cell; 0824656696
          www.suntrax.co.za
          info@...
          Open 7/12/363
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Stefano Rosso" <stefano.rosso@...>
          To: <kitesurf@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 6:46 PM
          Subject: RES: [ksurf] Re: how to switch sides without getting lofted?


          >
          > Brian,
          >
          > I am also interested in understanding how the UDS bar works... From what
          > I saw, I could not see the difference between the UDS and a free bar
          > (except the UDS bar has a professional finish, and the rotating leash
          > looks very good too). But from the safety aspect, what I understand
          > happens is that if you release the bar (and are unhooked) then the leash
          > will pull on your harness and on the front lines of the kite... So it
          > wont depower much... And if the bar is out of your hands and the kite
          > starts to dive then you are F***ED...
          >
          > What have I not understood ?
          >
          > Thanks
          > stefano
          >
          >
          > Brian,
          >
          > How is this system safer than the "free bar" system that lifted Mel 20'
          > up in the air on land a few months ago? Can you simply drop the bar
          > (like in any standard bar) or do you have to drop the bar and pull on
          > some magic QR button?
          >
          > Hung.
          >
          > --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "Suntrax" <brian@s...> wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > > Hey Steffano
          > >
          > > The fact that Naish is just a more sophisticated design and for normal
          >
          > > flying does not need the same amount of depower as a Wipika :-) is
          > not the
          > > issue here, or the subject, the point is that the Naish UDS allows
          > > safe, UNHOOKED, light steering while, in this case, flying the kite
          > > safely
          > across
          > > the zenith and the ability to easily hook up again, ALL while
          > supporting the
          > > weight and pull of the kite in your harness.
          > >
          > > Brian
          > >
          > >
          > > > == double the normal naish depower is the same as the standard
          > > > wipika depower so big whoppee ! Here we go again with the 200%
          > > > depower !
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Hi David
          > > >
          > > > This is where the new Naish UDS system will go a long way in
          > > > improving safety, it allows you to be unhooked but with double the
          > > > normal Naish depower yet still have the light steering associated
          > > > with being hooked in. At the same time the UDS acts as a safety
          > > > leash with full spinning capability. Not perfect but getting there!
          > > >
          > > > Best regards
          > > >
          > > > Brian
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com Kitesurfing
          > > >
          > > > http://www.KiteHIGH.com
          > > > ph: 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA or
          > > > ph: 1 808 637 KITE (5483)
          > > > Em: support@k...
          > > >
          > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          > > >
          >
          >
          > This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com Kitesurfing
          >
          > http://www.KiteHIGH.com
          > ph: 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA or
          > ph: 1 808 637 KITE (5483)
          > Em: support@...
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
          >
          > This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com Kitesurfing
          >
          > http://www.KiteHIGH.com
          > ph: 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA or
          > ph: 1 808 637 KITE (5483)
          > Em: support@...
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
        • hungvuatnetcomdotca
          Brian, Can you pull on the button to release the safety leash from the strap first (to make it a traditional safety leash) before launching the kite unhooked
          Message 4 of 20 , Oct 2, 2003
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            Brian,

            Can you pull on the button to release the safety leash from the strap
            first (to make it a traditional safety leash) before launching the
            kite unhooked and then latter on reconnect it while in the water?

            Hung.

            --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "Suntrax" <brian@s...> wrote:
            > Hung
            >
            > I don't think I said it was safer than anything, other than being
            hooked in.
            > Yes you must release the bar and then activate an eye level quick
            release.
            > Myself and Rob Munroe have previously given a description and
            explanation of
            > the UDS and it's advantages. I don't think any current system is
            foolproof
            > or 100% safe but the UDS is a step in the right direction that also
            includes
            > a functioning spinning leash, itself a safety feature that negates the
            > excuse that leashes reduce spinning ability, therefore enjoyment.
            > To those who negatively criticise the Naish UDS without having tried
            it, I
            > would suggest that you test it, but be prepared for a pleasant
            surprise!.
            >
            >
            > Best regards
            >
            > Brian
            >
            > (========o]></
            >
            > ~~~~~~~~~~~~
            >
            > Brian Wilson
            > Suntrax
            > Tel/fax 27 (0)21 5560044
            > cell; 0824656696
            > www.suntrax.co.za
            > info@s...
            > Open 7/12/363
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: "hungvuatnetcomdotca" <hungvu2000@r...>
            > To: <kitesurf@yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 6:26 PM
            > Subject: [ksurf] Re: how to switch sides without getting lofted?
            >
            >
            > > Brian,
            > >
            > > How is this system safer than the "free bar" system that lifted Mel
            > > 20' up in the air on land a few months ago? Can you simply drop the
            > > bar (like in any standard bar) or do you have to drop the bar and pull
            > > on some magic QR button?
            > >
            > > Hung.
            > >
            > > --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "Suntrax" <brian@s...> wrote:
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Hey Steffano
            > > >
            > > > The fact that Naish is just a more sophisticated design and for
            normal
            > > > flying does not need the same amount of depower as a Wipika :-) is
            > > not the
            > > > issue here, or the subject, the point is that the Naish UDS
            allows safe,
            > > > UNHOOKED, light steering while, in this case, flying the kite safely
            > > across
            > > > the zenith and the ability to easily hook up again, ALL while
            > > supporting the
            > > > weight and pull of the kite in your harness.
            > > >
            > > > Brian
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > > == double the normal naish depower is the same as the standard
            wipika
            > > > > depower so big whoppee ! Here we go again with the 200% depower !
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > Hi David
            > > > >
            > > > > This is where the new Naish UDS system will go a long way in
            improving
            > > > > safety, it allows you to be unhooked but with double the
            normal Naish
            > > > > depower yet still have the light steering associated with
            being hooked
            > > > > in. At the same time the UDS acts as a safety leash with full
            spinning
            > > > > capability. Not perfect but getting there!
            > > > >
            > > > > Best regards
            > > > >
            > > > > Brian
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com Kitesurfing
            > > > >
            > > > > http://www.KiteHIGH.com
            > > > > ph: 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA or
            > > > > ph: 1 808 637 KITE (5483)
            > > > > Em: support@k...
            > > > >
            > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            > > > >
            > >
            > >
            > > This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com Kitesurfing
            > >
            > > http://www.KiteHIGH.com
            > > ph: 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA or
            > > ph: 1 808 637 KITE (5483)
            > > Em: support@k...
            > >
            > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            > >
          • hungvuatnetcomdotca
            ... hooked in. ... release. Brian, So how is it safer than launching the kite while hooking in to the chicken loop with a working QR system (e.g., Recon,
            Message 5 of 20 , Oct 2, 2003
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              --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "Suntrax" <brian@s...> wrote:
              > Hung
              >
              > I don't think I said it was safer than anything, other than being
              hooked in.
              > Yes you must release the bar and then activate an eye level quick
              release.

              Brian,

              So how is it safer than launching the kite while hooking in to the
              chicken loop with a "working" QR system (e.g., Recon, Ocean Rodeo
              punch out bar, pin release, QR on the chicken loop, etc.)?

              Hung.
            • Stefano Rosso
              Hi Stefano Please also read my answer to Hung. == I did. You are generally correct except that if you have to let go of the bar, the Quick Release is right in
              Message 6 of 20 , Oct 2, 2003
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                Hi Stefano

                Please also read my answer to Hung.

                == I did.

                You are generally correct except that if you have to let go of the bar,
                the Quick Release is right in front of your eyes at the bottom of the
                depower-strap part of the UDS system, which then acts on one middle line
                like most modern (production)leashes. There is then another QR if you
                have to dump everything. You have to try it to understand it,

                == I guess I do understand it then...

                I was also very sceptical beforehand and I reiterate, it is not the
                ultimate answer to all safety concerns, but I don't think Naish hyped it
                as such.

                == I think that the leash they developed with its improved ability to
                swivel is the novelty on this bar. Everything else is "old" in that many
                of us already had this type of functionality on their home made bars.
                Its good that there is a production model available though...

                == I apologize if I sound sceptic... I am just making fun of their 200%
                depower which just sounds like hype of something other kite bars have
                had for a long time... There is a naish mafia here in brazil that tends
                to hype EVERYTHING naish kites launches, even before they have tried it
                themselves... So we like to tease them a bit...
              • mobilekiteshop.com
                The quickest and safest quick release system is the Ocean rodeo punch out system. I would like to see more manufacturers go in this direction. When you punch
                Message 7 of 20 , Oct 2, 2003
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                  The quickest and safest quick release system is the Ocean rodeo punch out
                  system. I would like to see more manufacturers go in this direction. When
                  you punch out you are left with both hands on the bar which means you still
                  have the decision to hold on to the bar or to release it. You do not have to
                  let go with one hand and feel around for a quick release which may take you
                  one crucial second longer than just punching out, the punch out is
                  immediate, your brain says im lofting or this gust is too much I wont be
                  able to hold it and as soon as your brain says it you are released with one
                  movement. I am sure it is the safest system out there and I am sure there is
                  a way that you clever people out there could self rig your own versions of
                  it.

                  Pog ma hon.
                  Steve
                  steve@... <mailto:steve@...>
                  Ph: 087-7993612
                • Stefano Rosso
                  your brain says im lofting or this gust is too much I wont be able to hold it and as soon as your brain says it you are released with one movement. My
                  Message 8 of 20 , Oct 2, 2003
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                    your brain says im lofting or this gust is too much I wont be able to
                    hold it and as soon as your brain says it you are released with one
                    movement.

                    My experience in loftings has been that the brain always realizes that
                    you are being lofted when you are way way up... You cannot know how high
                    you will go until you are way way up there... And then your reaction is
                    normally to grab the bar for dear life !
                  • hungvuatnetcomdotca
                    My experience so far is that if I hooked in, I would not be able to unhook until 10 + high up (the time it take to do something, e.g., pulling on some release,
                    Message 9 of 20 , Oct 2, 2003
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                      My experience so far is that if I hooked in, I would not be able to
                      unhook until 10'+ high up (the time it take to do something, e.g.,
                      pulling on some release, would make it even higher).

                      If I am unhooked (and not attached to the kite except for the "true"
                      safety leash), the bar simply ripped right out of my hand (2
                      occasions: one a few years ago with my wipika 3.5 in 35 - 40 knots -
                      Luke Stanek, the world buggy fastest man was there - and the other
                      case just recently with my AR5 11.5 in very steep wind gradient).
                      This "skill" may not be automatic to some as stefano has stated but it
                      can be learned.

                      In any case, being unhooked (and not attached to the kite except for
                      the "true" safety leash) when in doubt is desirable as after the
                      initial contact, the kite is fully disable and cannot cause further
                      damages (damage to the kitesurf or damage to the bystanders). Just
                      imaging an injured, unconcious 170 lbs kitesurfer get dragged over an
                      infant in the pinic area or the parking lot - kitesurfing will sure be
                      banned immediately and indefinitely.

                      Hung.

                      --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "Stefano Rosso" <stefano.rosso@a...>
                      wrote:
                      > your brain says im lofting or this gust is too much I wont be able to
                      > hold it and as soon as your brain says it you are released with one
                      > movement.
                      >
                      > My experience in loftings has been that the brain always realizes that
                      > you are being lofted when you are way way up... You cannot know how high
                      > you will go until you are way way up there... And then your reaction is
                      > normally to grab the bar for dear life !
                    • Stefano Rosso
                      If I am unhooked (and not attached to the kite except for the true safety leash), the bar simply ripped right out of my hand (2 occasions: one a few years
                      Message 10 of 20 , Oct 2, 2003
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                        If I am unhooked (and not attached to the kite except for the "true"
                        safety leash), the bar simply ripped right out of my hand (2
                        occasions: one a few years ago with my wipika 3.5 in 35 - 40 knots -
                        Luke Stanek, the world buggy fastest man was there - and the other case
                        just recently with my AR5 11.5 in very steep wind gradient).
                        This "skill" may not be automatic to some as stefano has stated but it
                        can be learned.

                        == if the bar is getting ripped out of your hand then that's one thing.
                        If you are getting lofted in such a way that the bar doesn't get ripped
                        out of your hands then your first reaction is to try and control the
                        kite ... Then you suddenly realize you are way up...
                      • mobilekiteshop.com
                        its all very well to say that you should be unhooked but the reality of the situation is that most people wont unhook, I could be out riding and I see a very
                        Message 11 of 20 , Oct 2, 2003
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                          its all very well to say that you should be unhooked but the reality of the
                          situation is that most people wont unhook, I could be out riding and I see a
                          very dark cloud coming and I would be very aware of a possible large change
                          in the wind. So if for some reason it is not practical to come in or it is
                          safer to stay far away from the shore in case of possible lofting I will
                          ride with the kite as low as possible and when I tack I will turn the kite
                          at the bottom of the window as much as possible and not let it rise up. At
                          the same time I know if a huge gust comes in that in a split second I can be
                          free of the kite with this type of punch out release whereas with all other
                          forms of release that I know of I would have to go looking for some kind of
                          grab ball, loop, quick release somewhere, how fast can you find and pull
                          your quick release? if you get lofted how high does that extra time allow
                          you to get.

                          Pog ma hon
                          Steve
                          steve@... <mailto:steve@...>
                          Ph: 087-7993612

                          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        • hungvuatnetcomdotca
                          The Ocean Rodeo definitely has an advantage in this situation. However, people should at least unhooked (and not attached to the kite except for the true
                          Message 12 of 20 , Oct 2, 2003
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                            The Ocean Rodeo definitely has an advantage in this situation.

                            However, people should at least unhooked (and not attached to the kite
                            except for the "true" safety leash) on land and near people/hard objects.

                            Snowboarding was banned at many resorts in the early days because of
                            comments like this from the skiers: "I don't mind snowboarders go out
                            and kill themselves but it bothers me to watch an injured snowboarder
                            hurt skiers".

                            So injure or kill yourself, but once you become unconcious, please
                            don't hurt or kill other people.

                            Hung.

                            --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "mobilekiteshop.com" <steve@m...> wrote:
                            > its all very well to say that you should be unhooked but the reality
                            of the
                            > situation is that most people wont unhook, I could be out riding and
                            I see a
                            > very dark cloud coming and I would be very aware of a possible large
                            change
                            > in the wind. So if for some reason it is not practical to come in or
                            it is
                            > safer to stay far away from the shore in case of possible lofting I will
                            > ride with the kite as low as possible and when I tack I will turn
                            the kite
                            > at the bottom of the window as much as possible and not let it rise
                            up. At
                            > the same time I know if a huge gust comes in that in a split second
                            I can be
                            > free of the kite with this type of punch out release whereas with
                            all other
                            > forms of release that I know of I would have to go looking for some
                            kind of
                            > grab ball, loop, quick release somewhere, how fast can you find and pull
                            > your quick release? if you get lofted how high does that extra time
                            allow
                            > you to get.
                            >
                            > Pog ma hon
                            > Steve
                            > steve@m... <mailto:steve@m...>
                            > Ph: 087-7993612
                            >
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                          • mobilekiteshop.com
                            I agree with you and its great to say that Hung but realistically people wont do it, I suppose I am changing the subject and considering quicker ways to
                            Message 13 of 20 , Oct 2, 2003
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                              I agree with you and its great to say that Hung but realistically people
                              wont do it, I suppose I am changing the subject and considering quicker ways
                              to activate your quick release, I think that the delay caused by having to
                              let go of your bar and reaching somewhere else to activate your release
                              increases risk and there should be a better way, maybe the release could be
                              unde your hand on the bar somehow, I am sure someone here could work it out?


                              Steve
                              steve@... <mailto:steve@...>
                              Ph: 087-7993612


                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: hungvuatnetcomdotca [mailto:hungvu2000@...]
                              Sent: 03 October 2003 00:19
                              To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: RES: [ksurf] RE:design a better quick release was ( how to
                              switch sides with


                              The Ocean Rodeo definitely has an advantage in this situation.

                              However, people should at least unhooked (and not attached to the kite
                              except for the "true" safety leash) on land and near people/hard objects.

                              Snowboarding was banned at many resorts in the early days because of
                              comments like this from the skiers: "I don't mind snowboarders go out
                              and kill themselves but it bothers me to watch an injured snowboarder
                              hurt skiers".

                              So injure or kill yourself, but once you become unconcious, please
                              don't hurt or kill other people.

                              Hung.

                              --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "mobilekiteshop.com" <steve@m...> wrote:
                              > its all very well to say that you should be unhooked but the reality
                              of the
                              > situation is that most people wont unhook, I could be out riding and
                              I see a
                              > very dark cloud coming and I would be very aware of a possible large
                              change
                              > in the wind. So if for some reason it is not practical to come in or
                              it is
                              > safer to stay far away from the shore in case of possible lofting I will
                              > ride with the kite as low as possible and when I tack I will turn
                              the kite
                              > at the bottom of the window as much as possible and not let it rise
                              up. At
                              > the same time I know if a huge gust comes in that in a split second
                              I can be
                              > free of the kite with this type of punch out release whereas with
                              all other
                              > forms of release that I know of I would have to go looking for some
                              kind of
                              > grab ball, loop, quick release somewhere, how fast can you find and pull
                              > your quick release? if you get lofted how high does that extra time
                              allow
                              > you to get.
                              >
                              > Pog ma hon
                              > Steve
                              > steve@m... <mailto:steve@m...>
                              > Ph: 087-7993612
                              >
                              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                              http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


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                            • Jan Coffey
                              A few thoughts: The Naish system is greate becouse you can use it on any kite. The new Naish system is simply a free bar, when the bar is unhooked, and a
                              Message 14 of 20 , Oct 2, 2003
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                                A few thoughts:

                                The Naish system is greate becouse you can use it on any kite.

                                The new Naish system is simply a free bar, when the bar is unhooked,
                                and a regular bar when it is hooked in. That means that going
                                unhooked is not really being unhooked. It's simply trasfering to a
                                free bar. I haven't used it, but one would think that if the intent
                                were an unhooked railie, with the bar at arms leangth and the kite
                                fully powered, with the naish system, you're not going to get this.

                                The new naish system has no way of simply releasing the bar for full
                                depower. (Sorry, but isn't %100 depower mean the kite has NO power?)

                                At some point transfering the load to the front lines stops
                                depowering the kite. On my North and old Naish kites you can get to
                                this point with the bar still attached. I know this becouse I rigged
                                free bar for a while and there is a point were it's depowered as
                                much as it is going to without landing it, or releasing one side of
                                the kite. I stoped riging free bar, becouse this point was well
                                within the normal "throw" I used at that time.

                                The swivil leash looks to me like it's still going to get tangled. I
                                designed a bar with a swiveling leash the line covered in plastic
                                and it still tangled and got in the way. What happens when you go
                                for a spin, then end up letting go of the bar and regrabing the bar
                                from the other side of the leash? You can get that leash wrapped
                                around the bar. Then what? No reride will work if the bar is hung up
                                at the rider. What about the leash getting wrapped around the hook?
                                It looks to me like you could spin the bar and it would spin around
                                the leash then you would have to manulay reach down and untwist the
                                leash by making the swivil go around. What if you get in trouble
                                right at that moment? Everyone who tried swivels knows that they
                                don't always turn on their own.

                                I know I'm on a Cab kick right now, but here me out. If you don't
                                want a "drop the bar" kind of leash system the Recon works greate.
                                See my erlier post. The kite doesn't reride, spin around slam into
                                the shore etc. It folds up and depowers by at least %98 if not more
                                (remember %100 means NO power at all).

                                If you don't want to launch hooked or you like being able to just
                                drop the bar the Recon will do this as well. The system works
                                becouse when the load is fully transfered to the back lines the kite
                                will fold up. If you simply attach a line to both back lines behind
                                the rings, then letting go of the bar will engage the Recon system
                                becouse all of the load will be on the back lines. The kite will
                                softly glide down directly down wind. Not spin and violently drag
                                you for another 100 meters, but disingage, and fully depower.

                                And to top it off, you get a bit of help relaunching to boot.

                                Hay I'm certainly no pro, I pay what everyone else does for my gear.
                                I don't have anything at all to do with any Kite company. That's why
                                I feel free to speak my mind and tell it the way I see it. Still
                                these are just my opinions. Opinions are like butts, everyones got
                                one.
                              • Suntrax
                                ... No, not practical Am finished with this subject unless Hung, you actualy try the UDS with your own 2 hands and THEN comment, I get enough keyboard
                                Message 15 of 20 , Oct 3, 2003
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                                  > Can you pull on the button to release the safety leash from the strap
                                  > first (to make it a traditional safety leash) before launching the
                                  > kite unhooked
                                  >and then latter on reconnect it while in the water?

                                  No, not practical

                                  Am finished with this subject unless Hung, you actualy try the UDS with your
                                  own 2 hands and THEN comment, I get enough keyboard theorists in my store
                                  every day :-)

                                  Out

                                  Brian

                                  > Hung.
                                  >
                                  > --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "Suntrax" <brian@s...> wrote:
                                  > > Hung
                                  > >
                                  > > I don't think I said it was safer than anything, other than being
                                  > hooked in.
                                  > > Yes you must release the bar and then activate an eye level quick
                                  > release.
                                  > > Myself and Rob Munroe have previously given a description and
                                  > explanation of
                                  > > the UDS and it's advantages. I don't think any current system is
                                  > foolproof
                                  > > or 100% safe but the UDS is a step in the right direction that also
                                  > includes
                                  > > a functioning spinning leash, itself a safety feature that negates the
                                  > > excuse that leashes reduce spinning ability, therefore enjoyment.
                                  > > To those who negatively criticise the Naish UDS without having tried
                                  > it, I
                                  > > would suggest that you test it, but be prepared for a pleasant
                                  > surprise!.
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Best regards
                                  > >
                                  > > Brian
                                  > >
                                  > > (========o]></
                                  > >
                                  > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                  > >
                                  > > Brian Wilson
                                  > > Suntrax
                                  > > Tel/fax 27 (0)21 5560044
                                  > > cell; 0824656696
                                  > > www.suntrax.co.za
                                  > > info@s...
                                  > > Open 7/12/363
                                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > > From: "hungvuatnetcomdotca" <hungvu2000@r...>
                                  > > To: <kitesurf@yahoogroups.com>
                                  > > Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 6:26 PM
                                  > > Subject: [ksurf] Re: how to switch sides without getting lofted?
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > > Brian,
                                  > > >
                                  > > > How is this system safer than the "free bar" system that lifted Mel
                                  > > > 20' up in the air on land a few months ago? Can you simply drop the
                                  > > > bar (like in any standard bar) or do you have to drop the bar and pull
                                  > > > on some magic QR button?
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Hung.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "Suntrax" <brian@s...> wrote:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Hey Steffano
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > The fact that Naish is just a more sophisticated design and for
                                  > normal
                                  > > > > flying does not need the same amount of depower as a Wipika :-) is
                                  > > > not the
                                  > > > > issue here, or the subject, the point is that the Naish UDS
                                  > allows safe,
                                  > > > > UNHOOKED, light steering while, in this case, flying the kite safely
                                  > > > across
                                  > > > > the zenith and the ability to easily hook up again, ALL while
                                  > > > supporting the
                                  > > > > weight and pull of the kite in your harness.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Brian
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > > == double the normal naish depower is the same as the standard
                                  > wipika
                                  > > > > > depower so big whoppee ! Here we go again with the 200% depower !
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > Hi David
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > This is where the new Naish UDS system will go a long way in
                                  > improving
                                  > > > > > safety, it allows you to be unhooked but with double the
                                  > normal Naish
                                  > > > > > depower yet still have the light steering associated with
                                  > being hooked
                                  > > > > > in. At the same time the UDS acts as a safety leash with full
                                  > spinning
                                  > > > > > capability. Not perfect but getting there!
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > Best regards
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > Brian
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com Kitesurfing
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > http://www.KiteHIGH.com
                                  > > > > > ph: 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA or
                                  > > > > > ph: 1 808 637 KITE (5483)
                                  > > > > > Em: support@k...
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                  > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com Kitesurfing
                                  > > >
                                  > > > http://www.KiteHIGH.com
                                  > > > ph: 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA or
                                  > > > ph: 1 808 637 KITE (5483)
                                  > > > Em: support@k...
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                  > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                  > > >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com Kitesurfing
                                  >
                                  > http://www.KiteHIGH.com
                                  > ph: 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA or
                                  > ph: 1 808 637 KITE (5483)
                                  > Em: support@...
                                  >
                                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                  >
                                • hungvuatnetcomdotca
                                  ... Thanks. If I cannot launch the kite unhooked (truly unhooked not fake unhooked) then please don t invite me to try it as it may injure or kill me. I
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Oct 3, 2003
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                                    --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "Suntrax" <brian@s...> wrote:
                                    > > Can you pull on the button to release the safety leash from the strap
                                    > > first (to make it a traditional safety leash) before launching the
                                    > > kite unhooked
                                    > >and then latter on reconnect it while in the water?
                                    >
                                    > No, not practical

                                    Thanks. If I cannot launch the kite unhooked (truly unhooked not
                                    "fake" unhooked) then please don't invite me to try it as it may
                                    injure or kill me.

                                    I will give Recon a try as I think I can launch it unhooked with a
                                    traditional wrist safety leash and then later on locked into the
                                    chicken loop and transfer (tie) the wrist safety leash to the bar
                                    while in deep water.

                                    Hung.
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