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[ksurf] Re: how to switch sides without getting lofted?

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  • hungvuatnetcomdotca
    Brian, How is this system safer than the free bar system that lifted Mel 20 up in the air on land a few months ago? Can you simply drop the bar (like in any
    Message 1 of 20 , Oct 2, 2003
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      Brian,

      How is this system safer than the "free bar" system that lifted Mel
      20' up in the air on land a few months ago? Can you simply drop the
      bar (like in any standard bar) or do you have to drop the bar and pull
      on some magic QR button?

      Hung.

      --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "Suntrax" <brian@s...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > Hey Steffano
      >
      > The fact that Naish is just a more sophisticated design and for normal
      > flying does not need the same amount of depower as a Wipika :-) is
      not the
      > issue here, or the subject, the point is that the Naish UDS allows safe,
      > UNHOOKED, light steering while, in this case, flying the kite safely
      across
      > the zenith and the ability to easily hook up again, ALL while
      supporting the
      > weight and pull of the kite in your harness.
      >
      > Brian
      >
      >
      > > == double the normal naish depower is the same as the standard wipika
      > > depower so big whoppee ! Here we go again with the 200% depower !
      > >
      > >
      > > Hi David
      > >
      > > This is where the new Naish UDS system will go a long way in improving
      > > safety, it allows you to be unhooked but with double the normal Naish
      > > depower yet still have the light steering associated with being hooked
      > > in. At the same time the UDS acts as a safety leash with full spinning
      > > capability. Not perfect but getting there!
      > >
      > > Best regards
      > >
      > > Brian
      > >
      > >
      > > This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com Kitesurfing
      > >
      > > http://www.KiteHIGH.com
      > > ph: 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA or
      > > ph: 1 808 637 KITE (5483)
      > > Em: support@k...
      > >
      > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
      http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      > >
    • Stefano Rosso
      Brian, I am also interested in understanding how the UDS bar works... From what I saw, I could not see the difference between the UDS and a free bar (except
      Message 2 of 20 , Oct 2, 2003
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        Brian,

        I am also interested in understanding how the UDS bar works... From what
        I saw, I could not see the difference between the UDS and a free bar
        (except the UDS bar has a professional finish, and the rotating leash
        looks very good too). But from the safety aspect, what I understand
        happens is that if you release the bar (and are unhooked) then the leash
        will pull on your harness and on the front lines of the kite... So it
        wont depower much... And if the bar is out of your hands and the kite
        starts to dive then you are F***ED...

        What have I not understood ?

        Thanks
        stefano


        Brian,

        How is this system safer than the "free bar" system that lifted Mel 20'
        up in the air on land a few months ago? Can you simply drop the bar
        (like in any standard bar) or do you have to drop the bar and pull on
        some magic QR button?

        Hung.

        --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "Suntrax" <brian@s...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > Hey Steffano
        >
        > The fact that Naish is just a more sophisticated design and for normal

        > flying does not need the same amount of depower as a Wipika :-) is
        not the
        > issue here, or the subject, the point is that the Naish UDS allows
        > safe, UNHOOKED, light steering while, in this case, flying the kite
        > safely
        across
        > the zenith and the ability to easily hook up again, ALL while
        supporting the
        > weight and pull of the kite in your harness.
        >
        > Brian
        >
        >
        > > == double the normal naish depower is the same as the standard
        > > wipika depower so big whoppee ! Here we go again with the 200%
        > > depower !
        > >
        > >
        > > Hi David
        > >
        > > This is where the new Naish UDS system will go a long way in
        > > improving safety, it allows you to be unhooked but with double the
        > > normal Naish depower yet still have the light steering associated
        > > with being hooked in. At the same time the UDS acts as a safety
        > > leash with full spinning capability. Not perfect but getting there!
        > >
        > > Best regards
        > >
        > > Brian
        > >
        > >
        > > This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com Kitesurfing
        > >
        > > http://www.KiteHIGH.com
        > > ph: 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA or
        > > ph: 1 808 637 KITE (5483)
        > > Em: support@k...
        > >
        > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
        http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        > >


        This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com Kitesurfing

        http://www.KiteHIGH.com
        ph: 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA or
        ph: 1 808 637 KITE (5483)
        Em: support@...

        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
        http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      • Suntrax
        Hung I don t think I said it was safer than anything, other than being hooked in. Yes you must release the bar and then activate an eye level quick release.
        Message 3 of 20 , Oct 2, 2003
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          Hung

          I don't think I said it was safer than anything, other than being hooked in.
          Yes you must release the bar and then activate an eye level quick release.
          Myself and Rob Munroe have previously given a description and explanation of
          the UDS and it's advantages. I don't think any current system is foolproof
          or 100% safe but the UDS is a step in the right direction that also includes
          a functioning spinning leash, itself a safety feature that negates the
          excuse that leashes reduce spinning ability, therefore enjoyment.
          To those who negatively criticise the Naish UDS without having tried it, I
          would suggest that you test it, but be prepared for a pleasant surprise!.


          Best regards

          Brian

          (========o]></

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~

          Brian Wilson
          Suntrax
          Tel/fax 27 (0)21 5560044
          cell; 0824656696
          www.suntrax.co.za
          info@...
          Open 7/12/363
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "hungvuatnetcomdotca" <hungvu2000@...>
          To: <kitesurf@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 6:26 PM
          Subject: [ksurf] Re: how to switch sides without getting lofted?


          > Brian,
          >
          > How is this system safer than the "free bar" system that lifted Mel
          > 20' up in the air on land a few months ago? Can you simply drop the
          > bar (like in any standard bar) or do you have to drop the bar and pull
          > on some magic QR button?
          >
          > Hung.
          >
          > --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "Suntrax" <brian@s...> wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > > Hey Steffano
          > >
          > > The fact that Naish is just a more sophisticated design and for normal
          > > flying does not need the same amount of depower as a Wipika :-) is
          > not the
          > > issue here, or the subject, the point is that the Naish UDS allows safe,
          > > UNHOOKED, light steering while, in this case, flying the kite safely
          > across
          > > the zenith and the ability to easily hook up again, ALL while
          > supporting the
          > > weight and pull of the kite in your harness.
          > >
          > > Brian
          > >
          > >
          > > > == double the normal naish depower is the same as the standard wipika
          > > > depower so big whoppee ! Here we go again with the 200% depower !
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Hi David
          > > >
          > > > This is where the new Naish UDS system will go a long way in improving
          > > > safety, it allows you to be unhooked but with double the normal Naish
          > > > depower yet still have the light steering associated with being hooked
          > > > in. At the same time the UDS acts as a safety leash with full spinning
          > > > capability. Not perfect but getting there!
          > > >
          > > > Best regards
          > > >
          > > > Brian
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com Kitesurfing
          > > >
          > > > http://www.KiteHIGH.com
          > > > ph: 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA or
          > > > ph: 1 808 637 KITE (5483)
          > > > Em: support@k...
          > > >
          > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          > > >
          >
          >
          > This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com Kitesurfing
          >
          > http://www.KiteHIGH.com
          > ph: 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA or
          > ph: 1 808 637 KITE (5483)
          > Em: support@...
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
        • Suntrax
          Hi Stefano Please also read my answer to Hung. You are generally correct except that if you have to let go of the bar, the Quick Release is right in front of
          Message 4 of 20 , Oct 2, 2003
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            Hi Stefano

            Please also read my answer to Hung.
            You are generally correct except that if you have to let go of the bar, the
            Quick Release is right in front of your eyes at the bottom of the
            depower-strap part of the UDS system, which then acts on one middle line
            like most modern (production)leashes. There is then another QR if you have
            to dump everything.
            You have to try it to understand it, I was also very sceptical beforehand
            and I reiterate, it is not the ultimate answer to all safety concerns, but I
            don't think Naish hyped it as such.

            Best regards

            Brian

            (========o]></

            ~~~~~~~~~~~~

            Brian Wilson
            Suntrax
            Tel/fax 27 (0)21 5560044
            cell; 0824656696
            www.suntrax.co.za
            info@...
            Open 7/12/363
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Stefano Rosso" <stefano.rosso@...>
            To: <kitesurf@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 6:46 PM
            Subject: RES: [ksurf] Re: how to switch sides without getting lofted?


            >
            > Brian,
            >
            > I am also interested in understanding how the UDS bar works... From what
            > I saw, I could not see the difference between the UDS and a free bar
            > (except the UDS bar has a professional finish, and the rotating leash
            > looks very good too). But from the safety aspect, what I understand
            > happens is that if you release the bar (and are unhooked) then the leash
            > will pull on your harness and on the front lines of the kite... So it
            > wont depower much... And if the bar is out of your hands and the kite
            > starts to dive then you are F***ED...
            >
            > What have I not understood ?
            >
            > Thanks
            > stefano
            >
            >
            > Brian,
            >
            > How is this system safer than the "free bar" system that lifted Mel 20'
            > up in the air on land a few months ago? Can you simply drop the bar
            > (like in any standard bar) or do you have to drop the bar and pull on
            > some magic QR button?
            >
            > Hung.
            >
            > --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "Suntrax" <brian@s...> wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > > Hey Steffano
            > >
            > > The fact that Naish is just a more sophisticated design and for normal
            >
            > > flying does not need the same amount of depower as a Wipika :-) is
            > not the
            > > issue here, or the subject, the point is that the Naish UDS allows
            > > safe, UNHOOKED, light steering while, in this case, flying the kite
            > > safely
            > across
            > > the zenith and the ability to easily hook up again, ALL while
            > supporting the
            > > weight and pull of the kite in your harness.
            > >
            > > Brian
            > >
            > >
            > > > == double the normal naish depower is the same as the standard
            > > > wipika depower so big whoppee ! Here we go again with the 200%
            > > > depower !
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Hi David
            > > >
            > > > This is where the new Naish UDS system will go a long way in
            > > > improving safety, it allows you to be unhooked but with double the
            > > > normal Naish depower yet still have the light steering associated
            > > > with being hooked in. At the same time the UDS acts as a safety
            > > > leash with full spinning capability. Not perfect but getting there!
            > > >
            > > > Best regards
            > > >
            > > > Brian
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com Kitesurfing
            > > >
            > > > http://www.KiteHIGH.com
            > > > ph: 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA or
            > > > ph: 1 808 637 KITE (5483)
            > > > Em: support@k...
            > > >
            > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            > > >
            >
            >
            > This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com Kitesurfing
            >
            > http://www.KiteHIGH.com
            > ph: 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA or
            > ph: 1 808 637 KITE (5483)
            > Em: support@...
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
            >
            > This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com Kitesurfing
            >
            > http://www.KiteHIGH.com
            > ph: 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA or
            > ph: 1 808 637 KITE (5483)
            > Em: support@...
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
          • hungvuatnetcomdotca
            Brian, Can you pull on the button to release the safety leash from the strap first (to make it a traditional safety leash) before launching the kite unhooked
            Message 5 of 20 , Oct 2, 2003
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              Brian,

              Can you pull on the button to release the safety leash from the strap
              first (to make it a traditional safety leash) before launching the
              kite unhooked and then latter on reconnect it while in the water?

              Hung.

              --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "Suntrax" <brian@s...> wrote:
              > Hung
              >
              > I don't think I said it was safer than anything, other than being
              hooked in.
              > Yes you must release the bar and then activate an eye level quick
              release.
              > Myself and Rob Munroe have previously given a description and
              explanation of
              > the UDS and it's advantages. I don't think any current system is
              foolproof
              > or 100% safe but the UDS is a step in the right direction that also
              includes
              > a functioning spinning leash, itself a safety feature that negates the
              > excuse that leashes reduce spinning ability, therefore enjoyment.
              > To those who negatively criticise the Naish UDS without having tried
              it, I
              > would suggest that you test it, but be prepared for a pleasant
              surprise!.
              >
              >
              > Best regards
              >
              > Brian
              >
              > (========o]></
              >
              > ~~~~~~~~~~~~
              >
              > Brian Wilson
              > Suntrax
              > Tel/fax 27 (0)21 5560044
              > cell; 0824656696
              > www.suntrax.co.za
              > info@s...
              > Open 7/12/363
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: "hungvuatnetcomdotca" <hungvu2000@r...>
              > To: <kitesurf@yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 6:26 PM
              > Subject: [ksurf] Re: how to switch sides without getting lofted?
              >
              >
              > > Brian,
              > >
              > > How is this system safer than the "free bar" system that lifted Mel
              > > 20' up in the air on land a few months ago? Can you simply drop the
              > > bar (like in any standard bar) or do you have to drop the bar and pull
              > > on some magic QR button?
              > >
              > > Hung.
              > >
              > > --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "Suntrax" <brian@s...> wrote:
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Hey Steffano
              > > >
              > > > The fact that Naish is just a more sophisticated design and for
              normal
              > > > flying does not need the same amount of depower as a Wipika :-) is
              > > not the
              > > > issue here, or the subject, the point is that the Naish UDS
              allows safe,
              > > > UNHOOKED, light steering while, in this case, flying the kite safely
              > > across
              > > > the zenith and the ability to easily hook up again, ALL while
              > > supporting the
              > > > weight and pull of the kite in your harness.
              > > >
              > > > Brian
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > > == double the normal naish depower is the same as the standard
              wipika
              > > > > depower so big whoppee ! Here we go again with the 200% depower !
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > Hi David
              > > > >
              > > > > This is where the new Naish UDS system will go a long way in
              improving
              > > > > safety, it allows you to be unhooked but with double the
              normal Naish
              > > > > depower yet still have the light steering associated with
              being hooked
              > > > > in. At the same time the UDS acts as a safety leash with full
              spinning
              > > > > capability. Not perfect but getting there!
              > > > >
              > > > > Best regards
              > > > >
              > > > > Brian
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com Kitesurfing
              > > > >
              > > > > http://www.KiteHIGH.com
              > > > > ph: 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA or
              > > > > ph: 1 808 637 KITE (5483)
              > > > > Em: support@k...
              > > > >
              > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              > > > >
              > >
              > >
              > > This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com Kitesurfing
              > >
              > > http://www.KiteHIGH.com
              > > ph: 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA or
              > > ph: 1 808 637 KITE (5483)
              > > Em: support@k...
              > >
              > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              > >
            • hungvuatnetcomdotca
              ... hooked in. ... release. Brian, So how is it safer than launching the kite while hooking in to the chicken loop with a working QR system (e.g., Recon,
              Message 6 of 20 , Oct 2, 2003
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                --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "Suntrax" <brian@s...> wrote:
                > Hung
                >
                > I don't think I said it was safer than anything, other than being
                hooked in.
                > Yes you must release the bar and then activate an eye level quick
                release.

                Brian,

                So how is it safer than launching the kite while hooking in to the
                chicken loop with a "working" QR system (e.g., Recon, Ocean Rodeo
                punch out bar, pin release, QR on the chicken loop, etc.)?

                Hung.
              • Stefano Rosso
                Hi Stefano Please also read my answer to Hung. == I did. You are generally correct except that if you have to let go of the bar, the Quick Release is right in
                Message 7 of 20 , Oct 2, 2003
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                  Hi Stefano

                  Please also read my answer to Hung.

                  == I did.

                  You are generally correct except that if you have to let go of the bar,
                  the Quick Release is right in front of your eyes at the bottom of the
                  depower-strap part of the UDS system, which then acts on one middle line
                  like most modern (production)leashes. There is then another QR if you
                  have to dump everything. You have to try it to understand it,

                  == I guess I do understand it then...

                  I was also very sceptical beforehand and I reiterate, it is not the
                  ultimate answer to all safety concerns, but I don't think Naish hyped it
                  as such.

                  == I think that the leash they developed with its improved ability to
                  swivel is the novelty on this bar. Everything else is "old" in that many
                  of us already had this type of functionality on their home made bars.
                  Its good that there is a production model available though...

                  == I apologize if I sound sceptic... I am just making fun of their 200%
                  depower which just sounds like hype of something other kite bars have
                  had for a long time... There is a naish mafia here in brazil that tends
                  to hype EVERYTHING naish kites launches, even before they have tried it
                  themselves... So we like to tease them a bit...
                • mobilekiteshop.com
                  The quickest and safest quick release system is the Ocean rodeo punch out system. I would like to see more manufacturers go in this direction. When you punch
                  Message 8 of 20 , Oct 2, 2003
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                    The quickest and safest quick release system is the Ocean rodeo punch out
                    system. I would like to see more manufacturers go in this direction. When
                    you punch out you are left with both hands on the bar which means you still
                    have the decision to hold on to the bar or to release it. You do not have to
                    let go with one hand and feel around for a quick release which may take you
                    one crucial second longer than just punching out, the punch out is
                    immediate, your brain says im lofting or this gust is too much I wont be
                    able to hold it and as soon as your brain says it you are released with one
                    movement. I am sure it is the safest system out there and I am sure there is
                    a way that you clever people out there could self rig your own versions of
                    it.

                    Pog ma hon.
                    Steve
                    steve@... <mailto:steve@...>
                    Ph: 087-7993612
                  • Stefano Rosso
                    your brain says im lofting or this gust is too much I wont be able to hold it and as soon as your brain says it you are released with one movement. My
                    Message 9 of 20 , Oct 2, 2003
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                      your brain says im lofting or this gust is too much I wont be able to
                      hold it and as soon as your brain says it you are released with one
                      movement.

                      My experience in loftings has been that the brain always realizes that
                      you are being lofted when you are way way up... You cannot know how high
                      you will go until you are way way up there... And then your reaction is
                      normally to grab the bar for dear life !
                    • hungvuatnetcomdotca
                      My experience so far is that if I hooked in, I would not be able to unhook until 10 + high up (the time it take to do something, e.g., pulling on some release,
                      Message 10 of 20 , Oct 2, 2003
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                        My experience so far is that if I hooked in, I would not be able to
                        unhook until 10'+ high up (the time it take to do something, e.g.,
                        pulling on some release, would make it even higher).

                        If I am unhooked (and not attached to the kite except for the "true"
                        safety leash), the bar simply ripped right out of my hand (2
                        occasions: one a few years ago with my wipika 3.5 in 35 - 40 knots -
                        Luke Stanek, the world buggy fastest man was there - and the other
                        case just recently with my AR5 11.5 in very steep wind gradient).
                        This "skill" may not be automatic to some as stefano has stated but it
                        can be learned.

                        In any case, being unhooked (and not attached to the kite except for
                        the "true" safety leash) when in doubt is desirable as after the
                        initial contact, the kite is fully disable and cannot cause further
                        damages (damage to the kitesurf or damage to the bystanders). Just
                        imaging an injured, unconcious 170 lbs kitesurfer get dragged over an
                        infant in the pinic area or the parking lot - kitesurfing will sure be
                        banned immediately and indefinitely.

                        Hung.

                        --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "Stefano Rosso" <stefano.rosso@a...>
                        wrote:
                        > your brain says im lofting or this gust is too much I wont be able to
                        > hold it and as soon as your brain says it you are released with one
                        > movement.
                        >
                        > My experience in loftings has been that the brain always realizes that
                        > you are being lofted when you are way way up... You cannot know how high
                        > you will go until you are way way up there... And then your reaction is
                        > normally to grab the bar for dear life !
                      • Stefano Rosso
                        If I am unhooked (and not attached to the kite except for the true safety leash), the bar simply ripped right out of my hand (2 occasions: one a few years
                        Message 11 of 20 , Oct 2, 2003
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                          If I am unhooked (and not attached to the kite except for the "true"
                          safety leash), the bar simply ripped right out of my hand (2
                          occasions: one a few years ago with my wipika 3.5 in 35 - 40 knots -
                          Luke Stanek, the world buggy fastest man was there - and the other case
                          just recently with my AR5 11.5 in very steep wind gradient).
                          This "skill" may not be automatic to some as stefano has stated but it
                          can be learned.

                          == if the bar is getting ripped out of your hand then that's one thing.
                          If you are getting lofted in such a way that the bar doesn't get ripped
                          out of your hands then your first reaction is to try and control the
                          kite ... Then you suddenly realize you are way up...
                        • mobilekiteshop.com
                          its all very well to say that you should be unhooked but the reality of the situation is that most people wont unhook, I could be out riding and I see a very
                          Message 12 of 20 , Oct 2, 2003
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                            its all very well to say that you should be unhooked but the reality of the
                            situation is that most people wont unhook, I could be out riding and I see a
                            very dark cloud coming and I would be very aware of a possible large change
                            in the wind. So if for some reason it is not practical to come in or it is
                            safer to stay far away from the shore in case of possible lofting I will
                            ride with the kite as low as possible and when I tack I will turn the kite
                            at the bottom of the window as much as possible and not let it rise up. At
                            the same time I know if a huge gust comes in that in a split second I can be
                            free of the kite with this type of punch out release whereas with all other
                            forms of release that I know of I would have to go looking for some kind of
                            grab ball, loop, quick release somewhere, how fast can you find and pull
                            your quick release? if you get lofted how high does that extra time allow
                            you to get.

                            Pog ma hon
                            Steve
                            steve@... <mailto:steve@...>
                            Ph: 087-7993612

                            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                          • hungvuatnetcomdotca
                            The Ocean Rodeo definitely has an advantage in this situation. However, people should at least unhooked (and not attached to the kite except for the true
                            Message 13 of 20 , Oct 2, 2003
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                              The Ocean Rodeo definitely has an advantage in this situation.

                              However, people should at least unhooked (and not attached to the kite
                              except for the "true" safety leash) on land and near people/hard objects.

                              Snowboarding was banned at many resorts in the early days because of
                              comments like this from the skiers: "I don't mind snowboarders go out
                              and kill themselves but it bothers me to watch an injured snowboarder
                              hurt skiers".

                              So injure or kill yourself, but once you become unconcious, please
                              don't hurt or kill other people.

                              Hung.

                              --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "mobilekiteshop.com" <steve@m...> wrote:
                              > its all very well to say that you should be unhooked but the reality
                              of the
                              > situation is that most people wont unhook, I could be out riding and
                              I see a
                              > very dark cloud coming and I would be very aware of a possible large
                              change
                              > in the wind. So if for some reason it is not practical to come in or
                              it is
                              > safer to stay far away from the shore in case of possible lofting I will
                              > ride with the kite as low as possible and when I tack I will turn
                              the kite
                              > at the bottom of the window as much as possible and not let it rise
                              up. At
                              > the same time I know if a huge gust comes in that in a split second
                              I can be
                              > free of the kite with this type of punch out release whereas with
                              all other
                              > forms of release that I know of I would have to go looking for some
                              kind of
                              > grab ball, loop, quick release somewhere, how fast can you find and pull
                              > your quick release? if you get lofted how high does that extra time
                              allow
                              > you to get.
                              >
                              > Pog ma hon
                              > Steve
                              > steve@m... <mailto:steve@m...>
                              > Ph: 087-7993612
                              >
                              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                              http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                            • mobilekiteshop.com
                              I agree with you and its great to say that Hung but realistically people wont do it, I suppose I am changing the subject and considering quicker ways to
                              Message 14 of 20 , Oct 2, 2003
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                                I agree with you and its great to say that Hung but realistically people
                                wont do it, I suppose I am changing the subject and considering quicker ways
                                to activate your quick release, I think that the delay caused by having to
                                let go of your bar and reaching somewhere else to activate your release
                                increases risk and there should be a better way, maybe the release could be
                                unde your hand on the bar somehow, I am sure someone here could work it out?


                                Steve
                                steve@... <mailto:steve@...>
                                Ph: 087-7993612


                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: hungvuatnetcomdotca [mailto:hungvu2000@...]
                                Sent: 03 October 2003 00:19
                                To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: RES: [ksurf] RE:design a better quick release was ( how to
                                switch sides with


                                The Ocean Rodeo definitely has an advantage in this situation.

                                However, people should at least unhooked (and not attached to the kite
                                except for the "true" safety leash) on land and near people/hard objects.

                                Snowboarding was banned at many resorts in the early days because of
                                comments like this from the skiers: "I don't mind snowboarders go out
                                and kill themselves but it bothers me to watch an injured snowboarder
                                hurt skiers".

                                So injure or kill yourself, but once you become unconcious, please
                                don't hurt or kill other people.

                                Hung.

                                --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "mobilekiteshop.com" <steve@m...> wrote:
                                > its all very well to say that you should be unhooked but the reality
                                of the
                                > situation is that most people wont unhook, I could be out riding and
                                I see a
                                > very dark cloud coming and I would be very aware of a possible large
                                change
                                > in the wind. So if for some reason it is not practical to come in or
                                it is
                                > safer to stay far away from the shore in case of possible lofting I will
                                > ride with the kite as low as possible and when I tack I will turn
                                the kite
                                > at the bottom of the window as much as possible and not let it rise
                                up. At
                                > the same time I know if a huge gust comes in that in a split second
                                I can be
                                > free of the kite with this type of punch out release whereas with
                                all other
                                > forms of release that I know of I would have to go looking for some
                                kind of
                                > grab ball, loop, quick release somewhere, how fast can you find and pull
                                > your quick release? if you get lofted how high does that extra time
                                allow
                                > you to get.
                                >
                                > Pog ma hon
                                > Steve
                                > steve@m... <mailto:steve@m...>
                                > Ph: 087-7993612
                                >
                                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


                                This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com Kitesurfing

                                http://www.KiteHIGH.com
                                ph: 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA or
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                                Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                              • Jan Coffey
                                A few thoughts: The Naish system is greate becouse you can use it on any kite. The new Naish system is simply a free bar, when the bar is unhooked, and a
                                Message 15 of 20 , Oct 2, 2003
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                                  A few thoughts:

                                  The Naish system is greate becouse you can use it on any kite.

                                  The new Naish system is simply a free bar, when the bar is unhooked,
                                  and a regular bar when it is hooked in. That means that going
                                  unhooked is not really being unhooked. It's simply trasfering to a
                                  free bar. I haven't used it, but one would think that if the intent
                                  were an unhooked railie, with the bar at arms leangth and the kite
                                  fully powered, with the naish system, you're not going to get this.

                                  The new naish system has no way of simply releasing the bar for full
                                  depower. (Sorry, but isn't %100 depower mean the kite has NO power?)

                                  At some point transfering the load to the front lines stops
                                  depowering the kite. On my North and old Naish kites you can get to
                                  this point with the bar still attached. I know this becouse I rigged
                                  free bar for a while and there is a point were it's depowered as
                                  much as it is going to without landing it, or releasing one side of
                                  the kite. I stoped riging free bar, becouse this point was well
                                  within the normal "throw" I used at that time.

                                  The swivil leash looks to me like it's still going to get tangled. I
                                  designed a bar with a swiveling leash the line covered in plastic
                                  and it still tangled and got in the way. What happens when you go
                                  for a spin, then end up letting go of the bar and regrabing the bar
                                  from the other side of the leash? You can get that leash wrapped
                                  around the bar. Then what? No reride will work if the bar is hung up
                                  at the rider. What about the leash getting wrapped around the hook?
                                  It looks to me like you could spin the bar and it would spin around
                                  the leash then you would have to manulay reach down and untwist the
                                  leash by making the swivil go around. What if you get in trouble
                                  right at that moment? Everyone who tried swivels knows that they
                                  don't always turn on their own.

                                  I know I'm on a Cab kick right now, but here me out. If you don't
                                  want a "drop the bar" kind of leash system the Recon works greate.
                                  See my erlier post. The kite doesn't reride, spin around slam into
                                  the shore etc. It folds up and depowers by at least %98 if not more
                                  (remember %100 means NO power at all).

                                  If you don't want to launch hooked or you like being able to just
                                  drop the bar the Recon will do this as well. The system works
                                  becouse when the load is fully transfered to the back lines the kite
                                  will fold up. If you simply attach a line to both back lines behind
                                  the rings, then letting go of the bar will engage the Recon system
                                  becouse all of the load will be on the back lines. The kite will
                                  softly glide down directly down wind. Not spin and violently drag
                                  you for another 100 meters, but disingage, and fully depower.

                                  And to top it off, you get a bit of help relaunching to boot.

                                  Hay I'm certainly no pro, I pay what everyone else does for my gear.
                                  I don't have anything at all to do with any Kite company. That's why
                                  I feel free to speak my mind and tell it the way I see it. Still
                                  these are just my opinions. Opinions are like butts, everyones got
                                  one.
                                • Suntrax
                                  ... No, not practical Am finished with this subject unless Hung, you actualy try the UDS with your own 2 hands and THEN comment, I get enough keyboard
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Oct 3, 2003
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                                    > Can you pull on the button to release the safety leash from the strap
                                    > first (to make it a traditional safety leash) before launching the
                                    > kite unhooked
                                    >and then latter on reconnect it while in the water?

                                    No, not practical

                                    Am finished with this subject unless Hung, you actualy try the UDS with your
                                    own 2 hands and THEN comment, I get enough keyboard theorists in my store
                                    every day :-)

                                    Out

                                    Brian

                                    > Hung.
                                    >
                                    > --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "Suntrax" <brian@s...> wrote:
                                    > > Hung
                                    > >
                                    > > I don't think I said it was safer than anything, other than being
                                    > hooked in.
                                    > > Yes you must release the bar and then activate an eye level quick
                                    > release.
                                    > > Myself and Rob Munroe have previously given a description and
                                    > explanation of
                                    > > the UDS and it's advantages. I don't think any current system is
                                    > foolproof
                                    > > or 100% safe but the UDS is a step in the right direction that also
                                    > includes
                                    > > a functioning spinning leash, itself a safety feature that negates the
                                    > > excuse that leashes reduce spinning ability, therefore enjoyment.
                                    > > To those who negatively criticise the Naish UDS without having tried
                                    > it, I
                                    > > would suggest that you test it, but be prepared for a pleasant
                                    > surprise!.
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Best regards
                                    > >
                                    > > Brian
                                    > >
                                    > > (========o]></
                                    > >
                                    > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                    > >
                                    > > Brian Wilson
                                    > > Suntrax
                                    > > Tel/fax 27 (0)21 5560044
                                    > > cell; 0824656696
                                    > > www.suntrax.co.za
                                    > > info@s...
                                    > > Open 7/12/363
                                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > > From: "hungvuatnetcomdotca" <hungvu2000@r...>
                                    > > To: <kitesurf@yahoogroups.com>
                                    > > Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 6:26 PM
                                    > > Subject: [ksurf] Re: how to switch sides without getting lofted?
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > > Brian,
                                    > > >
                                    > > > How is this system safer than the "free bar" system that lifted Mel
                                    > > > 20' up in the air on land a few months ago? Can you simply drop the
                                    > > > bar (like in any standard bar) or do you have to drop the bar and pull
                                    > > > on some magic QR button?
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Hung.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "Suntrax" <brian@s...> wrote:
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Hey Steffano
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > The fact that Naish is just a more sophisticated design and for
                                    > normal
                                    > > > > flying does not need the same amount of depower as a Wipika :-) is
                                    > > > not the
                                    > > > > issue here, or the subject, the point is that the Naish UDS
                                    > allows safe,
                                    > > > > UNHOOKED, light steering while, in this case, flying the kite safely
                                    > > > across
                                    > > > > the zenith and the ability to easily hook up again, ALL while
                                    > > > supporting the
                                    > > > > weight and pull of the kite in your harness.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Brian
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > > == double the normal naish depower is the same as the standard
                                    > wipika
                                    > > > > > depower so big whoppee ! Here we go again with the 200% depower !
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Hi David
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > This is where the new Naish UDS system will go a long way in
                                    > improving
                                    > > > > > safety, it allows you to be unhooked but with double the
                                    > normal Naish
                                    > > > > > depower yet still have the light steering associated with
                                    > being hooked
                                    > > > > > in. At the same time the UDS acts as a safety leash with full
                                    > spinning
                                    > > > > > capability. Not perfect but getting there!
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Best regards
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Brian
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com Kitesurfing
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > http://www.KiteHIGH.com
                                    > > > > > ph: 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA or
                                    > > > > > ph: 1 808 637 KITE (5483)
                                    > > > > > Em: support@k...
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                    > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com Kitesurfing
                                    > > >
                                    > > > http://www.KiteHIGH.com
                                    > > > ph: 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA or
                                    > > > ph: 1 808 637 KITE (5483)
                                    > > > Em: support@k...
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                    > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                    > > >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com Kitesurfing
                                    >
                                    > http://www.KiteHIGH.com
                                    > ph: 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA or
                                    > ph: 1 808 637 KITE (5483)
                                    > Em: support@...
                                    >
                                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                    >
                                  • hungvuatnetcomdotca
                                    ... Thanks. If I cannot launch the kite unhooked (truly unhooked not fake unhooked) then please don t invite me to try it as it may injure or kill me. I
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Oct 3, 2003
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                                      --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "Suntrax" <brian@s...> wrote:
                                      > > Can you pull on the button to release the safety leash from the strap
                                      > > first (to make it a traditional safety leash) before launching the
                                      > > kite unhooked
                                      > >and then latter on reconnect it while in the water?
                                      >
                                      > No, not practical

                                      Thanks. If I cannot launch the kite unhooked (truly unhooked not
                                      "fake" unhooked) then please don't invite me to try it as it may
                                      injure or kill me.

                                      I will give Recon a try as I think I can launch it unhooked with a
                                      traditional wrist safety leash and then later on locked into the
                                      chicken loop and transfer (tie) the wrist safety leash to the bar
                                      while in deep water.

                                      Hung.
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