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Re: [ksurf] Re: how to switch sides without getting lofted?

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  • Suntrax
    Hi David This is where the new Naish UDS system will go a long way in improving safety, it allows you to be unhooked but with double the normal Naish depower
    Message 1 of 20 , Oct 1, 2003
      Hi David

      This is where the new Naish UDS system will go a long way in improving
      safety, it allows you to be unhooked but with double the normal Naish
      depower yet
      still have the light steering associated with being hooked in. At the same
      time the UDS acts as a safety leash with full spinning capability.
      Not perfect but getting there!

      Best regards

      Brian

      (========o]></

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~

      Brian Wilson
      Suntrax
      Tel/fax 27 (0)21 5560044
      cell; 0824656696
      www.suntrax.co.za
      info@...
      Open 7/12/363
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "ringokiter" <davidtoushek@...>
      To: <kitesurf@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 12:19 AM
      Subject: [ksurf] Re: how to switch sides without getting lofted?


      > Thanks Rick,
      >
      > I guess what I hear is, it's better to be unhooked for sure because
      > you can always let go, but on the other hand, unhooking means not
      > being as depowered as by using the chicken loop. That's a bit of a
      > tuff one. I think next time I'll unhook and take it over zenith
      > slow. If I do get lofted, I'll just let go.
      >
      > David
      >
      > --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "flkitesurfer" <flkitesurfer@h...>
      > wrote:
      > > It is interesting that the wind sometimes gusts at just the wrong
      > > time. Ironic but dangerous as well.
      > >
      > > A couple of points to think about. Anytime you are on or near land
      > > with your kite flying, you are at risk of being dragged or lofted.
      > > This applies even if your kite is low. The solution is to land your
      > > kite even before you step on land but that is up to individual
      > > choice. Some people know this and do it anyway, as long as they are
      > > informed so be it and good luck.
      > >
      > > You often can walk with your kite over the water depowered using
      > the
      > > trim strap and chicken loop. If the wind is above a certain speed
      > > for a given kite size or near onshore, this doesn't necessarily
      > > apply.
      > >
      > > If you must walk up the beach with your kite facing inland, make
      > > sure it is as fully depowered as conditions will permit and still
      > > fly in stable fashion. Keep it low to the ground and be ready to
      > > release the kite to your leash if you have to. Understand and
      > > accept that under some circumstances you MAY NOT BE ABLE TO and off
      > > downwind you go to impact and ??? When it comes time to fly the
      > > kite slowly and carefully overhead to place it over the water
      > again,
      > > checkout the winds first, try to do this unhooked (trimming your
      > > kite for max depower for stable flight first), and ease it over.
      > If
      > > the winds are too strong for this, make sure there is no one around
      > > for you to be lofted or dragged into and take your chances. As
      > your
      > > experience and that of other riders that have been injured in doing
      > > this point out, you won't always succeed.
      > >
      > > Some practices are more hazardous than others. We just touched on
      > > some of them.
      > >
      > > Good luck,
      > >
      > > FKA, Inc.
      > >
      > > transcribed by:
      > > Rick Iossi
      > >
      > > --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "ringokiter" <davidtoushek@h...>
      > > wrote:
      > > > Ok, here's the scenario: A couple weeks back, I was walking my
      > > kite
      > > > back up the beach. Wind was onshore on a 45 degree angle, so I
      > > was
      > > > walking up with my kite on the beach side of the window about 4
      > > > meteres from the ground. After walking back up and getting ready
      > > to
      > > > head into the water, I had to switch over to the other side of
      > the
      > > > window because someone else was walking their kite up and mine
      > was
      > > in
      > > > the way. I began to switch sides and will going through zenith I
      > > got
      > > > lifted up and thrown 20 feet down the beach. I was a little
      > > shaken,
      > > > but otherwise ok.
      > > >
      > > > My question is how do I avoid this? I'm thinking I should just
      > go
      > > > slower through zenith next time if I have to switch.
      > > >
      > > > David
      >
      >
      > This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com Kitesurfing
      >
      > http://www.KiteHIGH.com
      > ph: 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA or
      > ph: 1 808 637 KITE (5483)
      > Em: support@...
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
    • Stefano Rosso
      == double the normal naish depower is the same as the standard wipika depower so big whoppee ! Here we go again with the 200% depower ! Hi David This is where
      Message 2 of 20 , Oct 2, 2003
        == double the normal naish depower is the same as the standard wipika
        depower so big whoppee ! Here we go again with the 200% depower !


        Hi David

        This is where the new Naish UDS system will go a long way in improving
        safety, it allows you to be unhooked but with double the normal Naish
        depower yet still have the light steering associated with being hooked
        in. At the same time the UDS acts as a safety leash with full spinning
        capability. Not perfect but getting there!

        Best regards

        Brian
      • Suntrax
        Hey Steffano The fact that Naish is just a more sophisticated design and for normal flying does not need the same amount of depower as a Wipika :-) is not the
        Message 3 of 20 , Oct 2, 2003
          Hey Steffano

          The fact that Naish is just a more sophisticated design and for normal
          flying does not need the same amount of depower as a Wipika :-) is not the
          issue here, or the subject, the point is that the Naish UDS allows safe,
          UNHOOKED, light steering while, in this case, flying the kite safely across
          the zenith and the ability to easily hook up again, ALL while supporting the
          weight and pull of the kite in your harness.

          Brian


          > == double the normal naish depower is the same as the standard wipika
          > depower so big whoppee ! Here we go again with the 200% depower !
          >
          >
          > Hi David
          >
          > This is where the new Naish UDS system will go a long way in improving
          > safety, it allows you to be unhooked but with double the normal Naish
          > depower yet still have the light steering associated with being hooked
          > in. At the same time the UDS acts as a safety leash with full spinning
          > capability. Not perfect but getting there!
          >
          > Best regards
          >
          > Brian
          >
          >
          > This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com Kitesurfing
          >
          > http://www.KiteHIGH.com
          > ph: 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA or
          > ph: 1 808 637 KITE (5483)
          > Em: support@...
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
        • hungvuatnetcomdotca
          Brian, How is this system safer than the free bar system that lifted Mel 20 up in the air on land a few months ago? Can you simply drop the bar (like in any
          Message 4 of 20 , Oct 2, 2003
            Brian,

            How is this system safer than the "free bar" system that lifted Mel
            20' up in the air on land a few months ago? Can you simply drop the
            bar (like in any standard bar) or do you have to drop the bar and pull
            on some magic QR button?

            Hung.

            --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "Suntrax" <brian@s...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > Hey Steffano
            >
            > The fact that Naish is just a more sophisticated design and for normal
            > flying does not need the same amount of depower as a Wipika :-) is
            not the
            > issue here, or the subject, the point is that the Naish UDS allows safe,
            > UNHOOKED, light steering while, in this case, flying the kite safely
            across
            > the zenith and the ability to easily hook up again, ALL while
            supporting the
            > weight and pull of the kite in your harness.
            >
            > Brian
            >
            >
            > > == double the normal naish depower is the same as the standard wipika
            > > depower so big whoppee ! Here we go again with the 200% depower !
            > >
            > >
            > > Hi David
            > >
            > > This is where the new Naish UDS system will go a long way in improving
            > > safety, it allows you to be unhooked but with double the normal Naish
            > > depower yet still have the light steering associated with being hooked
            > > in. At the same time the UDS acts as a safety leash with full spinning
            > > capability. Not perfect but getting there!
            > >
            > > Best regards
            > >
            > > Brian
            > >
            > >
            > > This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com Kitesurfing
            > >
            > > http://www.KiteHIGH.com
            > > ph: 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA or
            > > ph: 1 808 637 KITE (5483)
            > > Em: support@k...
            > >
            > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            > >
          • Stefano Rosso
            Brian, I am also interested in understanding how the UDS bar works... From what I saw, I could not see the difference between the UDS and a free bar (except
            Message 5 of 20 , Oct 2, 2003
              Brian,

              I am also interested in understanding how the UDS bar works... From what
              I saw, I could not see the difference between the UDS and a free bar
              (except the UDS bar has a professional finish, and the rotating leash
              looks very good too). But from the safety aspect, what I understand
              happens is that if you release the bar (and are unhooked) then the leash
              will pull on your harness and on the front lines of the kite... So it
              wont depower much... And if the bar is out of your hands and the kite
              starts to dive then you are F***ED...

              What have I not understood ?

              Thanks
              stefano


              Brian,

              How is this system safer than the "free bar" system that lifted Mel 20'
              up in the air on land a few months ago? Can you simply drop the bar
              (like in any standard bar) or do you have to drop the bar and pull on
              some magic QR button?

              Hung.

              --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "Suntrax" <brian@s...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > Hey Steffano
              >
              > The fact that Naish is just a more sophisticated design and for normal

              > flying does not need the same amount of depower as a Wipika :-) is
              not the
              > issue here, or the subject, the point is that the Naish UDS allows
              > safe, UNHOOKED, light steering while, in this case, flying the kite
              > safely
              across
              > the zenith and the ability to easily hook up again, ALL while
              supporting the
              > weight and pull of the kite in your harness.
              >
              > Brian
              >
              >
              > > == double the normal naish depower is the same as the standard
              > > wipika depower so big whoppee ! Here we go again with the 200%
              > > depower !
              > >
              > >
              > > Hi David
              > >
              > > This is where the new Naish UDS system will go a long way in
              > > improving safety, it allows you to be unhooked but with double the
              > > normal Naish depower yet still have the light steering associated
              > > with being hooked in. At the same time the UDS acts as a safety
              > > leash with full spinning capability. Not perfect but getting there!
              > >
              > > Best regards
              > >
              > > Brian
              > >
              > >
              > > This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com Kitesurfing
              > >
              > > http://www.KiteHIGH.com
              > > ph: 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA or
              > > ph: 1 808 637 KITE (5483)
              > > Em: support@k...
              > >
              > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              > >


              This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com Kitesurfing

              http://www.KiteHIGH.com
              ph: 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA or
              ph: 1 808 637 KITE (5483)
              Em: support@...

              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            • Suntrax
              Hung I don t think I said it was safer than anything, other than being hooked in. Yes you must release the bar and then activate an eye level quick release.
              Message 6 of 20 , Oct 2, 2003
                Hung

                I don't think I said it was safer than anything, other than being hooked in.
                Yes you must release the bar and then activate an eye level quick release.
                Myself and Rob Munroe have previously given a description and explanation of
                the UDS and it's advantages. I don't think any current system is foolproof
                or 100% safe but the UDS is a step in the right direction that also includes
                a functioning spinning leash, itself a safety feature that negates the
                excuse that leashes reduce spinning ability, therefore enjoyment.
                To those who negatively criticise the Naish UDS without having tried it, I
                would suggest that you test it, but be prepared for a pleasant surprise!.


                Best regards

                Brian

                (========o]></

                ~~~~~~~~~~~~

                Brian Wilson
                Suntrax
                Tel/fax 27 (0)21 5560044
                cell; 0824656696
                www.suntrax.co.za
                info@...
                Open 7/12/363
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "hungvuatnetcomdotca" <hungvu2000@...>
                To: <kitesurf@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 6:26 PM
                Subject: [ksurf] Re: how to switch sides without getting lofted?


                > Brian,
                >
                > How is this system safer than the "free bar" system that lifted Mel
                > 20' up in the air on land a few months ago? Can you simply drop the
                > bar (like in any standard bar) or do you have to drop the bar and pull
                > on some magic QR button?
                >
                > Hung.
                >
                > --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "Suntrax" <brian@s...> wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > > Hey Steffano
                > >
                > > The fact that Naish is just a more sophisticated design and for normal
                > > flying does not need the same amount of depower as a Wipika :-) is
                > not the
                > > issue here, or the subject, the point is that the Naish UDS allows safe,
                > > UNHOOKED, light steering while, in this case, flying the kite safely
                > across
                > > the zenith and the ability to easily hook up again, ALL while
                > supporting the
                > > weight and pull of the kite in your harness.
                > >
                > > Brian
                > >
                > >
                > > > == double the normal naish depower is the same as the standard wipika
                > > > depower so big whoppee ! Here we go again with the 200% depower !
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Hi David
                > > >
                > > > This is where the new Naish UDS system will go a long way in improving
                > > > safety, it allows you to be unhooked but with double the normal Naish
                > > > depower yet still have the light steering associated with being hooked
                > > > in. At the same time the UDS acts as a safety leash with full spinning
                > > > capability. Not perfect but getting there!
                > > >
                > > > Best regards
                > > >
                > > > Brian
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com Kitesurfing
                > > >
                > > > http://www.KiteHIGH.com
                > > > ph: 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA or
                > > > ph: 1 808 637 KITE (5483)
                > > > Em: support@k...
                > > >
                > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                > > >
                >
                >
                > This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com Kitesurfing
                >
                > http://www.KiteHIGH.com
                > ph: 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA or
                > ph: 1 808 637 KITE (5483)
                > Em: support@...
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
              • Suntrax
                Hi Stefano Please also read my answer to Hung. You are generally correct except that if you have to let go of the bar, the Quick Release is right in front of
                Message 7 of 20 , Oct 2, 2003
                  Hi Stefano

                  Please also read my answer to Hung.
                  You are generally correct except that if you have to let go of the bar, the
                  Quick Release is right in front of your eyes at the bottom of the
                  depower-strap part of the UDS system, which then acts on one middle line
                  like most modern (production)leashes. There is then another QR if you have
                  to dump everything.
                  You have to try it to understand it, I was also very sceptical beforehand
                  and I reiterate, it is not the ultimate answer to all safety concerns, but I
                  don't think Naish hyped it as such.

                  Best regards

                  Brian

                  (========o]></

                  ~~~~~~~~~~~~

                  Brian Wilson
                  Suntrax
                  Tel/fax 27 (0)21 5560044
                  cell; 0824656696
                  www.suntrax.co.za
                  info@...
                  Open 7/12/363
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Stefano Rosso" <stefano.rosso@...>
                  To: <kitesurf@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 6:46 PM
                  Subject: RES: [ksurf] Re: how to switch sides without getting lofted?


                  >
                  > Brian,
                  >
                  > I am also interested in understanding how the UDS bar works... From what
                  > I saw, I could not see the difference between the UDS and a free bar
                  > (except the UDS bar has a professional finish, and the rotating leash
                  > looks very good too). But from the safety aspect, what I understand
                  > happens is that if you release the bar (and are unhooked) then the leash
                  > will pull on your harness and on the front lines of the kite... So it
                  > wont depower much... And if the bar is out of your hands and the kite
                  > starts to dive then you are F***ED...
                  >
                  > What have I not understood ?
                  >
                  > Thanks
                  > stefano
                  >
                  >
                  > Brian,
                  >
                  > How is this system safer than the "free bar" system that lifted Mel 20'
                  > up in the air on land a few months ago? Can you simply drop the bar
                  > (like in any standard bar) or do you have to drop the bar and pull on
                  > some magic QR button?
                  >
                  > Hung.
                  >
                  > --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "Suntrax" <brian@s...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Hey Steffano
                  > >
                  > > The fact that Naish is just a more sophisticated design and for normal
                  >
                  > > flying does not need the same amount of depower as a Wipika :-) is
                  > not the
                  > > issue here, or the subject, the point is that the Naish UDS allows
                  > > safe, UNHOOKED, light steering while, in this case, flying the kite
                  > > safely
                  > across
                  > > the zenith and the ability to easily hook up again, ALL while
                  > supporting the
                  > > weight and pull of the kite in your harness.
                  > >
                  > > Brian
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > > == double the normal naish depower is the same as the standard
                  > > > wipika depower so big whoppee ! Here we go again with the 200%
                  > > > depower !
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Hi David
                  > > >
                  > > > This is where the new Naish UDS system will go a long way in
                  > > > improving safety, it allows you to be unhooked but with double the
                  > > > normal Naish depower yet still have the light steering associated
                  > > > with being hooked in. At the same time the UDS acts as a safety
                  > > > leash with full spinning capability. Not perfect but getting there!
                  > > >
                  > > > Best regards
                  > > >
                  > > > Brian
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com Kitesurfing
                  > > >
                  > > > http://www.KiteHIGH.com
                  > > > ph: 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA or
                  > > > ph: 1 808 637 KITE (5483)
                  > > > Em: support@k...
                  > > >
                  > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                  > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  > > >
                  >
                  >
                  > This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com Kitesurfing
                  >
                  > http://www.KiteHIGH.com
                  > ph: 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA or
                  > ph: 1 808 637 KITE (5483)
                  > Em: support@...
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                  > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com Kitesurfing
                  >
                  > http://www.KiteHIGH.com
                  > ph: 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA or
                  > ph: 1 808 637 KITE (5483)
                  > Em: support@...
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                • hungvuatnetcomdotca
                  Brian, Can you pull on the button to release the safety leash from the strap first (to make it a traditional safety leash) before launching the kite unhooked
                  Message 8 of 20 , Oct 2, 2003
                    Brian,

                    Can you pull on the button to release the safety leash from the strap
                    first (to make it a traditional safety leash) before launching the
                    kite unhooked and then latter on reconnect it while in the water?

                    Hung.

                    --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "Suntrax" <brian@s...> wrote:
                    > Hung
                    >
                    > I don't think I said it was safer than anything, other than being
                    hooked in.
                    > Yes you must release the bar and then activate an eye level quick
                    release.
                    > Myself and Rob Munroe have previously given a description and
                    explanation of
                    > the UDS and it's advantages. I don't think any current system is
                    foolproof
                    > or 100% safe but the UDS is a step in the right direction that also
                    includes
                    > a functioning spinning leash, itself a safety feature that negates the
                    > excuse that leashes reduce spinning ability, therefore enjoyment.
                    > To those who negatively criticise the Naish UDS without having tried
                    it, I
                    > would suggest that you test it, but be prepared for a pleasant
                    surprise!.
                    >
                    >
                    > Best regards
                    >
                    > Brian
                    >
                    > (========o]></
                    >
                    > ~~~~~~~~~~~~
                    >
                    > Brian Wilson
                    > Suntrax
                    > Tel/fax 27 (0)21 5560044
                    > cell; 0824656696
                    > www.suntrax.co.za
                    > info@s...
                    > Open 7/12/363
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: "hungvuatnetcomdotca" <hungvu2000@r...>
                    > To: <kitesurf@yahoogroups.com>
                    > Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 6:26 PM
                    > Subject: [ksurf] Re: how to switch sides without getting lofted?
                    >
                    >
                    > > Brian,
                    > >
                    > > How is this system safer than the "free bar" system that lifted Mel
                    > > 20' up in the air on land a few months ago? Can you simply drop the
                    > > bar (like in any standard bar) or do you have to drop the bar and pull
                    > > on some magic QR button?
                    > >
                    > > Hung.
                    > >
                    > > --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "Suntrax" <brian@s...> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Hey Steffano
                    > > >
                    > > > The fact that Naish is just a more sophisticated design and for
                    normal
                    > > > flying does not need the same amount of depower as a Wipika :-) is
                    > > not the
                    > > > issue here, or the subject, the point is that the Naish UDS
                    allows safe,
                    > > > UNHOOKED, light steering while, in this case, flying the kite safely
                    > > across
                    > > > the zenith and the ability to easily hook up again, ALL while
                    > > supporting the
                    > > > weight and pull of the kite in your harness.
                    > > >
                    > > > Brian
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > > == double the normal naish depower is the same as the standard
                    wipika
                    > > > > depower so big whoppee ! Here we go again with the 200% depower !
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Hi David
                    > > > >
                    > > > > This is where the new Naish UDS system will go a long way in
                    improving
                    > > > > safety, it allows you to be unhooked but with double the
                    normal Naish
                    > > > > depower yet still have the light steering associated with
                    being hooked
                    > > > > in. At the same time the UDS acts as a safety leash with full
                    spinning
                    > > > > capability. Not perfect but getting there!
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Best regards
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Brian
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com Kitesurfing
                    > > > >
                    > > > > http://www.KiteHIGH.com
                    > > > > ph: 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA or
                    > > > > ph: 1 808 637 KITE (5483)
                    > > > > Em: support@k...
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                    > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    > > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com Kitesurfing
                    > >
                    > > http://www.KiteHIGH.com
                    > > ph: 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA or
                    > > ph: 1 808 637 KITE (5483)
                    > > Em: support@k...
                    > >
                    > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    > >
                  • hungvuatnetcomdotca
                    ... hooked in. ... release. Brian, So how is it safer than launching the kite while hooking in to the chicken loop with a working QR system (e.g., Recon,
                    Message 9 of 20 , Oct 2, 2003
                      --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "Suntrax" <brian@s...> wrote:
                      > Hung
                      >
                      > I don't think I said it was safer than anything, other than being
                      hooked in.
                      > Yes you must release the bar and then activate an eye level quick
                      release.

                      Brian,

                      So how is it safer than launching the kite while hooking in to the
                      chicken loop with a "working" QR system (e.g., Recon, Ocean Rodeo
                      punch out bar, pin release, QR on the chicken loop, etc.)?

                      Hung.
                    • Stefano Rosso
                      Hi Stefano Please also read my answer to Hung. == I did. You are generally correct except that if you have to let go of the bar, the Quick Release is right in
                      Message 10 of 20 , Oct 2, 2003
                        Hi Stefano

                        Please also read my answer to Hung.

                        == I did.

                        You are generally correct except that if you have to let go of the bar,
                        the Quick Release is right in front of your eyes at the bottom of the
                        depower-strap part of the UDS system, which then acts on one middle line
                        like most modern (production)leashes. There is then another QR if you
                        have to dump everything. You have to try it to understand it,

                        == I guess I do understand it then...

                        I was also very sceptical beforehand and I reiterate, it is not the
                        ultimate answer to all safety concerns, but I don't think Naish hyped it
                        as such.

                        == I think that the leash they developed with its improved ability to
                        swivel is the novelty on this bar. Everything else is "old" in that many
                        of us already had this type of functionality on their home made bars.
                        Its good that there is a production model available though...

                        == I apologize if I sound sceptic... I am just making fun of their 200%
                        depower which just sounds like hype of something other kite bars have
                        had for a long time... There is a naish mafia here in brazil that tends
                        to hype EVERYTHING naish kites launches, even before they have tried it
                        themselves... So we like to tease them a bit...
                      • mobilekiteshop.com
                        The quickest and safest quick release system is the Ocean rodeo punch out system. I would like to see more manufacturers go in this direction. When you punch
                        Message 11 of 20 , Oct 2, 2003
                          The quickest and safest quick release system is the Ocean rodeo punch out
                          system. I would like to see more manufacturers go in this direction. When
                          you punch out you are left with both hands on the bar which means you still
                          have the decision to hold on to the bar or to release it. You do not have to
                          let go with one hand and feel around for a quick release which may take you
                          one crucial second longer than just punching out, the punch out is
                          immediate, your brain says im lofting or this gust is too much I wont be
                          able to hold it and as soon as your brain says it you are released with one
                          movement. I am sure it is the safest system out there and I am sure there is
                          a way that you clever people out there could self rig your own versions of
                          it.

                          Pog ma hon.
                          Steve
                          steve@... <mailto:steve@...>
                          Ph: 087-7993612
                        • Stefano Rosso
                          your brain says im lofting or this gust is too much I wont be able to hold it and as soon as your brain says it you are released with one movement. My
                          Message 12 of 20 , Oct 2, 2003
                            your brain says im lofting or this gust is too much I wont be able to
                            hold it and as soon as your brain says it you are released with one
                            movement.

                            My experience in loftings has been that the brain always realizes that
                            you are being lofted when you are way way up... You cannot know how high
                            you will go until you are way way up there... And then your reaction is
                            normally to grab the bar for dear life !
                          • hungvuatnetcomdotca
                            My experience so far is that if I hooked in, I would not be able to unhook until 10 + high up (the time it take to do something, e.g., pulling on some release,
                            Message 13 of 20 , Oct 2, 2003
                              My experience so far is that if I hooked in, I would not be able to
                              unhook until 10'+ high up (the time it take to do something, e.g.,
                              pulling on some release, would make it even higher).

                              If I am unhooked (and not attached to the kite except for the "true"
                              safety leash), the bar simply ripped right out of my hand (2
                              occasions: one a few years ago with my wipika 3.5 in 35 - 40 knots -
                              Luke Stanek, the world buggy fastest man was there - and the other
                              case just recently with my AR5 11.5 in very steep wind gradient).
                              This "skill" may not be automatic to some as stefano has stated but it
                              can be learned.

                              In any case, being unhooked (and not attached to the kite except for
                              the "true" safety leash) when in doubt is desirable as after the
                              initial contact, the kite is fully disable and cannot cause further
                              damages (damage to the kitesurf or damage to the bystanders). Just
                              imaging an injured, unconcious 170 lbs kitesurfer get dragged over an
                              infant in the pinic area or the parking lot - kitesurfing will sure be
                              banned immediately and indefinitely.

                              Hung.

                              --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "Stefano Rosso" <stefano.rosso@a...>
                              wrote:
                              > your brain says im lofting or this gust is too much I wont be able to
                              > hold it and as soon as your brain says it you are released with one
                              > movement.
                              >
                              > My experience in loftings has been that the brain always realizes that
                              > you are being lofted when you are way way up... You cannot know how high
                              > you will go until you are way way up there... And then your reaction is
                              > normally to grab the bar for dear life !
                            • Stefano Rosso
                              If I am unhooked (and not attached to the kite except for the true safety leash), the bar simply ripped right out of my hand (2 occasions: one a few years
                              Message 14 of 20 , Oct 2, 2003
                                If I am unhooked (and not attached to the kite except for the "true"
                                safety leash), the bar simply ripped right out of my hand (2
                                occasions: one a few years ago with my wipika 3.5 in 35 - 40 knots -
                                Luke Stanek, the world buggy fastest man was there - and the other case
                                just recently with my AR5 11.5 in very steep wind gradient).
                                This "skill" may not be automatic to some as stefano has stated but it
                                can be learned.

                                == if the bar is getting ripped out of your hand then that's one thing.
                                If you are getting lofted in such a way that the bar doesn't get ripped
                                out of your hands then your first reaction is to try and control the
                                kite ... Then you suddenly realize you are way up...
                              • mobilekiteshop.com
                                its all very well to say that you should be unhooked but the reality of the situation is that most people wont unhook, I could be out riding and I see a very
                                Message 15 of 20 , Oct 2, 2003
                                  its all very well to say that you should be unhooked but the reality of the
                                  situation is that most people wont unhook, I could be out riding and I see a
                                  very dark cloud coming and I would be very aware of a possible large change
                                  in the wind. So if for some reason it is not practical to come in or it is
                                  safer to stay far away from the shore in case of possible lofting I will
                                  ride with the kite as low as possible and when I tack I will turn the kite
                                  at the bottom of the window as much as possible and not let it rise up. At
                                  the same time I know if a huge gust comes in that in a split second I can be
                                  free of the kite with this type of punch out release whereas with all other
                                  forms of release that I know of I would have to go looking for some kind of
                                  grab ball, loop, quick release somewhere, how fast can you find and pull
                                  your quick release? if you get lofted how high does that extra time allow
                                  you to get.

                                  Pog ma hon
                                  Steve
                                  steve@... <mailto:steve@...>
                                  Ph: 087-7993612

                                  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                • hungvuatnetcomdotca
                                  The Ocean Rodeo definitely has an advantage in this situation. However, people should at least unhooked (and not attached to the kite except for the true
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Oct 2, 2003
                                    The Ocean Rodeo definitely has an advantage in this situation.

                                    However, people should at least unhooked (and not attached to the kite
                                    except for the "true" safety leash) on land and near people/hard objects.

                                    Snowboarding was banned at many resorts in the early days because of
                                    comments like this from the skiers: "I don't mind snowboarders go out
                                    and kill themselves but it bothers me to watch an injured snowboarder
                                    hurt skiers".

                                    So injure or kill yourself, but once you become unconcious, please
                                    don't hurt or kill other people.

                                    Hung.

                                    --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "mobilekiteshop.com" <steve@m...> wrote:
                                    > its all very well to say that you should be unhooked but the reality
                                    of the
                                    > situation is that most people wont unhook, I could be out riding and
                                    I see a
                                    > very dark cloud coming and I would be very aware of a possible large
                                    change
                                    > in the wind. So if for some reason it is not practical to come in or
                                    it is
                                    > safer to stay far away from the shore in case of possible lofting I will
                                    > ride with the kite as low as possible and when I tack I will turn
                                    the kite
                                    > at the bottom of the window as much as possible and not let it rise
                                    up. At
                                    > the same time I know if a huge gust comes in that in a split second
                                    I can be
                                    > free of the kite with this type of punch out release whereas with
                                    all other
                                    > forms of release that I know of I would have to go looking for some
                                    kind of
                                    > grab ball, loop, quick release somewhere, how fast can you find and pull
                                    > your quick release? if you get lofted how high does that extra time
                                    allow
                                    > you to get.
                                    >
                                    > Pog ma hon
                                    > Steve
                                    > steve@m... <mailto:steve@m...>
                                    > Ph: 087-7993612
                                    >
                                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                  • mobilekiteshop.com
                                    I agree with you and its great to say that Hung but realistically people wont do it, I suppose I am changing the subject and considering quicker ways to
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Oct 2, 2003
                                      I agree with you and its great to say that Hung but realistically people
                                      wont do it, I suppose I am changing the subject and considering quicker ways
                                      to activate your quick release, I think that the delay caused by having to
                                      let go of your bar and reaching somewhere else to activate your release
                                      increases risk and there should be a better way, maybe the release could be
                                      unde your hand on the bar somehow, I am sure someone here could work it out?


                                      Steve
                                      steve@... <mailto:steve@...>
                                      Ph: 087-7993612


                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: hungvuatnetcomdotca [mailto:hungvu2000@...]
                                      Sent: 03 October 2003 00:19
                                      To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: Re: RES: [ksurf] RE:design a better quick release was ( how to
                                      switch sides with


                                      The Ocean Rodeo definitely has an advantage in this situation.

                                      However, people should at least unhooked (and not attached to the kite
                                      except for the "true" safety leash) on land and near people/hard objects.

                                      Snowboarding was banned at many resorts in the early days because of
                                      comments like this from the skiers: "I don't mind snowboarders go out
                                      and kill themselves but it bothers me to watch an injured snowboarder
                                      hurt skiers".

                                      So injure or kill yourself, but once you become unconcious, please
                                      don't hurt or kill other people.

                                      Hung.

                                      --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "mobilekiteshop.com" <steve@m...> wrote:
                                      > its all very well to say that you should be unhooked but the reality
                                      of the
                                      > situation is that most people wont unhook, I could be out riding and
                                      I see a
                                      > very dark cloud coming and I would be very aware of a possible large
                                      change
                                      > in the wind. So if for some reason it is not practical to come in or
                                      it is
                                      > safer to stay far away from the shore in case of possible lofting I will
                                      > ride with the kite as low as possible and when I tack I will turn
                                      the kite
                                      > at the bottom of the window as much as possible and not let it rise
                                      up. At
                                      > the same time I know if a huge gust comes in that in a split second
                                      I can be
                                      > free of the kite with this type of punch out release whereas with
                                      all other
                                      > forms of release that I know of I would have to go looking for some
                                      kind of
                                      > grab ball, loop, quick release somewhere, how fast can you find and pull
                                      > your quick release? if you get lofted how high does that extra time
                                      allow
                                      > you to get.
                                      >
                                      > Pog ma hon
                                      > Steve
                                      > steve@m... <mailto:steve@m...>
                                      > Ph: 087-7993612
                                      >
                                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                      http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


                                      This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com Kitesurfing

                                      http://www.KiteHIGH.com
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                                    • Jan Coffey
                                      A few thoughts: The Naish system is greate becouse you can use it on any kite. The new Naish system is simply a free bar, when the bar is unhooked, and a
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Oct 2, 2003
                                        A few thoughts:

                                        The Naish system is greate becouse you can use it on any kite.

                                        The new Naish system is simply a free bar, when the bar is unhooked,
                                        and a regular bar when it is hooked in. That means that going
                                        unhooked is not really being unhooked. It's simply trasfering to a
                                        free bar. I haven't used it, but one would think that if the intent
                                        were an unhooked railie, with the bar at arms leangth and the kite
                                        fully powered, with the naish system, you're not going to get this.

                                        The new naish system has no way of simply releasing the bar for full
                                        depower. (Sorry, but isn't %100 depower mean the kite has NO power?)

                                        At some point transfering the load to the front lines stops
                                        depowering the kite. On my North and old Naish kites you can get to
                                        this point with the bar still attached. I know this becouse I rigged
                                        free bar for a while and there is a point were it's depowered as
                                        much as it is going to without landing it, or releasing one side of
                                        the kite. I stoped riging free bar, becouse this point was well
                                        within the normal "throw" I used at that time.

                                        The swivil leash looks to me like it's still going to get tangled. I
                                        designed a bar with a swiveling leash the line covered in plastic
                                        and it still tangled and got in the way. What happens when you go
                                        for a spin, then end up letting go of the bar and regrabing the bar
                                        from the other side of the leash? You can get that leash wrapped
                                        around the bar. Then what? No reride will work if the bar is hung up
                                        at the rider. What about the leash getting wrapped around the hook?
                                        It looks to me like you could spin the bar and it would spin around
                                        the leash then you would have to manulay reach down and untwist the
                                        leash by making the swivil go around. What if you get in trouble
                                        right at that moment? Everyone who tried swivels knows that they
                                        don't always turn on their own.

                                        I know I'm on a Cab kick right now, but here me out. If you don't
                                        want a "drop the bar" kind of leash system the Recon works greate.
                                        See my erlier post. The kite doesn't reride, spin around slam into
                                        the shore etc. It folds up and depowers by at least %98 if not more
                                        (remember %100 means NO power at all).

                                        If you don't want to launch hooked or you like being able to just
                                        drop the bar the Recon will do this as well. The system works
                                        becouse when the load is fully transfered to the back lines the kite
                                        will fold up. If you simply attach a line to both back lines behind
                                        the rings, then letting go of the bar will engage the Recon system
                                        becouse all of the load will be on the back lines. The kite will
                                        softly glide down directly down wind. Not spin and violently drag
                                        you for another 100 meters, but disingage, and fully depower.

                                        And to top it off, you get a bit of help relaunching to boot.

                                        Hay I'm certainly no pro, I pay what everyone else does for my gear.
                                        I don't have anything at all to do with any Kite company. That's why
                                        I feel free to speak my mind and tell it the way I see it. Still
                                        these are just my opinions. Opinions are like butts, everyones got
                                        one.
                                      • Suntrax
                                        ... No, not practical Am finished with this subject unless Hung, you actualy try the UDS with your own 2 hands and THEN comment, I get enough keyboard
                                        Message 19 of 20 , Oct 3, 2003
                                          > Can you pull on the button to release the safety leash from the strap
                                          > first (to make it a traditional safety leash) before launching the
                                          > kite unhooked
                                          >and then latter on reconnect it while in the water?

                                          No, not practical

                                          Am finished with this subject unless Hung, you actualy try the UDS with your
                                          own 2 hands and THEN comment, I get enough keyboard theorists in my store
                                          every day :-)

                                          Out

                                          Brian

                                          > Hung.
                                          >
                                          > --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "Suntrax" <brian@s...> wrote:
                                          > > Hung
                                          > >
                                          > > I don't think I said it was safer than anything, other than being
                                          > hooked in.
                                          > > Yes you must release the bar and then activate an eye level quick
                                          > release.
                                          > > Myself and Rob Munroe have previously given a description and
                                          > explanation of
                                          > > the UDS and it's advantages. I don't think any current system is
                                          > foolproof
                                          > > or 100% safe but the UDS is a step in the right direction that also
                                          > includes
                                          > > a functioning spinning leash, itself a safety feature that negates the
                                          > > excuse that leashes reduce spinning ability, therefore enjoyment.
                                          > > To those who negatively criticise the Naish UDS without having tried
                                          > it, I
                                          > > would suggest that you test it, but be prepared for a pleasant
                                          > surprise!.
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > Best regards
                                          > >
                                          > > Brian
                                          > >
                                          > > (========o]></
                                          > >
                                          > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                          > >
                                          > > Brian Wilson
                                          > > Suntrax
                                          > > Tel/fax 27 (0)21 5560044
                                          > > cell; 0824656696
                                          > > www.suntrax.co.za
                                          > > info@s...
                                          > > Open 7/12/363
                                          > > ----- Original Message -----
                                          > > From: "hungvuatnetcomdotca" <hungvu2000@r...>
                                          > > To: <kitesurf@yahoogroups.com>
                                          > > Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 6:26 PM
                                          > > Subject: [ksurf] Re: how to switch sides without getting lofted?
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > > Brian,
                                          > > >
                                          > > > How is this system safer than the "free bar" system that lifted Mel
                                          > > > 20' up in the air on land a few months ago? Can you simply drop the
                                          > > > bar (like in any standard bar) or do you have to drop the bar and pull
                                          > > > on some magic QR button?
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Hung.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "Suntrax" <brian@s...> wrote:
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Hey Steffano
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > The fact that Naish is just a more sophisticated design and for
                                          > normal
                                          > > > > flying does not need the same amount of depower as a Wipika :-) is
                                          > > > not the
                                          > > > > issue here, or the subject, the point is that the Naish UDS
                                          > allows safe,
                                          > > > > UNHOOKED, light steering while, in this case, flying the kite safely
                                          > > > across
                                          > > > > the zenith and the ability to easily hook up again, ALL while
                                          > > > supporting the
                                          > > > > weight and pull of the kite in your harness.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Brian
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > > == double the normal naish depower is the same as the standard
                                          > wipika
                                          > > > > > depower so big whoppee ! Here we go again with the 200% depower !
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > Hi David
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > This is where the new Naish UDS system will go a long way in
                                          > improving
                                          > > > > > safety, it allows you to be unhooked but with double the
                                          > normal Naish
                                          > > > > > depower yet still have the light steering associated with
                                          > being hooked
                                          > > > > > in. At the same time the UDS acts as a safety leash with full
                                          > spinning
                                          > > > > > capability. Not perfect but getting there!
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > Best regards
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > Brian
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com Kitesurfing
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > http://www.KiteHIGH.com
                                          > > > > > ph: 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA or
                                          > > > > > ph: 1 808 637 KITE (5483)
                                          > > > > > Em: support@k...
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                          > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com Kitesurfing
                                          > > >
                                          > > > http://www.KiteHIGH.com
                                          > > > ph: 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA or
                                          > > > ph: 1 808 637 KITE (5483)
                                          > > > Em: support@k...
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                          > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                          > > >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com Kitesurfing
                                          >
                                          > http://www.KiteHIGH.com
                                          > ph: 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA or
                                          > ph: 1 808 637 KITE (5483)
                                          > Em: support@...
                                          >
                                          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                          >
                                        • hungvuatnetcomdotca
                                          ... Thanks. If I cannot launch the kite unhooked (truly unhooked not fake unhooked) then please don t invite me to try it as it may injure or kill me. I
                                          Message 20 of 20 , Oct 3, 2003
                                            --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "Suntrax" <brian@s...> wrote:
                                            > > Can you pull on the button to release the safety leash from the strap
                                            > > first (to make it a traditional safety leash) before launching the
                                            > > kite unhooked
                                            > >and then latter on reconnect it while in the water?
                                            >
                                            > No, not practical

                                            Thanks. If I cannot launch the kite unhooked (truly unhooked not
                                            "fake" unhooked) then please don't invite me to try it as it may
                                            injure or kill me.

                                            I will give Recon a try as I think I can launch it unhooked with a
                                            traditional wrist safety leash and then later on locked into the
                                            chicken loop and transfer (tie) the wrist safety leash to the bar
                                            while in deep water.

                                            Hung.
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