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Re: RES: [ksurf] Fully sheet out kites

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  • hungvuatnetcomdotca
    Steve, If you add the front lines and back lines as a continuous loop idea (from Flysurfer Psycho or RECON - I don t know who copy who) to your design then
    Message 1 of 17 , Sep 17, 2003
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      Steve,

      If you add the "front lines and back lines as a continuous loop" idea
      (from Flysurfer Psycho or RECON - I don't know who copy who) to your
      design then it may work.

      As a continuous loop, the back lines will keep the front lines where
      it supposed to be and when you make the back line slack (sheet out)
      the front lines will move gradually forward until it completely
      depower the kite 100%.

      This idea should work in principle but it may not work for current
      sled LEI as the center of lift and the connections points may be in
      the wrong places for its purposes.

      Hung.

      --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, CC - Steve <kite_head@n...> wrote:
      > What I did to Seasmikize my Wipi 8.5 Classic was to sew some attach
      points near center of leading edge, then run lines from standard front
      attach points to these new attach points with a slider on them. When I
      > sheeted in kite flew normal. when I sheeted out liders would start
      to move toward new attach points. The problems I had were 1. Even at
      full sheet in the sliders had a tendency to be a bit forward of where I
      > wanted them. 2. When sheeted out sliders did not go all the way to
      where I wanted them, so I got more than stock sheet out but not as
      much as I wanted.
      >
      > It was at this point that I abandoned my experiments.
      >
      > I posted some of this to the group back then.
      >
      > Steve.
      > Carson City, Nevada, USA
      >
      >
      > 9/17/2003 6:32:32 AM, "hungvuatnetcomdotca" <hungvu2000@r...> wrote:
      >
      > >--- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, georgeiw@a... wrote:
      > >> The way the middle line goes from being a brake line to the B/A line
      > >> regulator is similar to the way the lines work in the Cabrinha recon
      > >system where the
      > >> front and rear lines are a continuos loop with stoppers to lock it
      > >into the
      > >> powered position.
      > >
      > >I am not sure who comes up with the "back line/front line as a
      > >continous loop" idea, Flysurfer or Cabrinha (in their RECON system),
      > >but I can see that this idea can be used for a 100% fully sheet out
      > >sled LEI kite (which of course eliminates the safety leash and
      > >automatically flip the kite over on its back ready for relaunch)
      > >
      > >P.S., I do hope that the "back line/front line as a continous loop"
      > >idea is not patented (I don't think it is as you need some very
      > >specific application for patenting); otherwise, only one company can
      > >built 100% fully sheet out sled LEI kite.
      > >
      > >Hung.
      > >
      > >
      > >This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com Kitesurfing
      > >
      > >http://www.KiteHIGH.com
      > >ph: 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA or
      > >ph: 1 808 637 KITE (5483)
      > >Em: support@k...
      > >
      > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
      http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
    • hink_trent
      Hey Steve, did your experiments look anything like this? http://www.usakite.com/lift2.htm ... was ... ideas ... with it. ... it ... depower ... make ... hook
      Message 2 of 17 , Sep 21, 2003
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        Hey Steve, did your experiments look anything like this?
        http://www.usakite.com/lift2.htm

        --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "hungvuatnetcomdotca"
        <hungvu2000@r...> wrote:
        > --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, CC - Steve <kite_head@n...> wrote:
        > > allowed it to fully depower. A 2 line or 4 line sled shape cannot
        > achieve 100% depower unless the front lines can move from the wing
        > tips to a point closer to the center. I experimented with this once
        > with some
        > > limited success a few years ago. I think it may have potential.
        >
        > This can probably be achieved fairly easily with some "integrated"
        > bridle system and some connection points closer to the center. If I
        > have time, I may do some experiments with my Wipika Classic 3.5 (it
        > already has some connection points closer to the center).
        >
        > > The biggest problem with the Seasmik design - from my experience
        was
        > that there was too little bar movement to go from no power to full
        > power and too much bar pressure when at full power. I had some
        ideas
        > for correcting this but did not want to spend the money to fool
        with it.
        >
        > "Too little bar movement to go from no power to full power" is
        > probably common for all foil shape. But if we are being able to do
        it
        > for a sled LEI then it would be the same as now (sheet out to
        depower
        > the kite up to a point - arms fully extended and trim strap fully
        > pulled) and then we'll be able to to simply drop the bar to 100%
        > depower when in trouble (also flip the kite over on the water and
        make
        > it ready to relaunch).
        >
        > "Too much bar pressure when at full power", why can't you simply
        hook in?
        >
        > > I do like the kite on lwheels and snow though. It is great to be
        > able to depower totally and on the fly. You are right that a leash
        is
        > unecesarry with this kite Hung. You can sheet out and fully depower
        > on front lines
        > > only and/or you can stall it and back it to the ground, It is
        > absolutely the most fully controllable kite I have ever flown. the
        > only other that comes close is the Revolution.
        >
        > Sounds like trying to eliminate the leash (very cumbersome to some
        > competitors) this way is MUCH BETTER and SAFER than making it
        a "part
        > time" safety leash.
        >
        > Hung.
      • CC - Steve
        Yes and No The front lines were on sliders like this but the sliders were much longer. About 3 feet. They ran from the front attach point to the leading edge
        Message 3 of 17 , Sep 22, 2003
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          Yes and No

          The front lines were on sliders like this but the sliders were much longer. About 3 feet. They ran from the front attach point to the leading edge near the 2nd struts. If the center strut is no 1 then the struts on either
          side of center are number 2. So in Sheet out position it was almost like holding the leading edge. Near full depower.

          This idea looks pretty cool though. If they are right - that it lessends drag during turning and sheeting in - then it might be worth doing. I'll have to try it on an old kite.


          Steve
          Carson City, Nevada, USA



          9/21/2003 7:50:50 PM, "hink_trent" <hink_trent@...> wrote:

          >Hey Steve, did your experiments look anything like this?
          >http://www.usakite.com/lift2.htm
          >
          >--- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "hungvuatnetcomdotca"
          ><hungvu2000@r...> wrote:
          >> --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, CC - Steve <kite_head@n...> wrote:
          >> > allowed it to fully depower. A 2 line or 4 line sled shape cannot
          >> achieve 100% depower unless the front lines can move from the wing
          >> tips to a point closer to the center. I experimented with this once
          >> with some
          >> > limited success a few years ago. I think it may have potential.
          >>
          >> This can probably be achieved fairly easily with some "integrated"
          >> bridle system and some connection points closer to the center. If I
          >> have time, I may do some experiments with my Wipika Classic 3.5 (it
          >> already has some connection points closer to the center).
          >>
          >> > The biggest problem with the Seasmik design - from my experience
          >was
          >> that there was too little bar movement to go from no power to full
          >> power and too much bar pressure when at full power. I had some
          >ideas
          >> for correcting this but did not want to spend the money to fool
          >with it.
          >>
          >> "Too little bar movement to go from no power to full power" is
          >> probably common for all foil shape. But if we are being able to do
          >it
          >> for a sled LEI then it would be the same as now (sheet out to
          >depower
          >> the kite up to a point - arms fully extended and trim strap fully
          >> pulled) and then we'll be able to to simply drop the bar to 100%
          >> depower when in trouble (also flip the kite over on the water and
          >make
          >> it ready to relaunch).
          >>
          >> "Too much bar pressure when at full power", why can't you simply
          >hook in?
          >>
          >> > I do like the kite on lwheels and snow though. It is great to be
          >> able to depower totally and on the fly. You are right that a leash
          >is
          >> unecesarry with this kite Hung. You can sheet out and fully depower
          >> on front lines
          >> > only and/or you can stall it and back it to the ground, It is
          >> absolutely the most fully controllable kite I have ever flown. the
          >> only other that comes close is the Revolution.
          >>
          >> Sounds like trying to eliminate the leash (very cumbersome to some
          >> competitors) this way is MUCH BETTER and SAFER than making it
          >a "part
          >> time" safety leash.
          >>
          >> Hung.
          >
          >
          >This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com Kitesurfing
          >
          >http://www.KiteHIGH.com
          >ph: 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA or
          >ph: 1 808 637 KITE (5483)
          >Em: support@...
          >
          >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • hungvuatnetcomdotca
          ... Well, last year we discussed about this here and it looks like this year Windwing is coming out with a very similar system allowing 90% to 100% depowerable
          Message 4 of 17 , Oct 21, 2004
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            --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "hungvuatnetcomdotca"
            <hungvu2000@r...> wrote:
            > --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, georgeiw@a... wrote:
            > > The way the middle line goes from being a brake line to the B/A line
            > > regulator is similar to the way the lines work in the Cabrinha recon
            > system where the
            > > front and rear lines are a continuos loop with stoppers to lock it
            > into the
            > > powered position.
            >
            > I am not sure who comes up with the "back line/front line as a
            > continous loop" idea, Flysurfer or Cabrinha (in their RECON system),
            > but I can see that this idea can be used for a 100% fully sheet out
            > sled LEI kite (which of course eliminates the safety leash and
            > automatically flip the kite over on its back ready for relaunch)
            >
            > P.S., I do hope that the "back line/front line as a continous loop"
            > idea is not patented (I don't think it is as you need some very
            > specific application for patenting); otherwise, only one company can
            > built 100% fully sheet out sled LEI kite.

            Well, last year we discussed about this here and it looks like this
            year Windwing is coming out with a very similar system allowing 90% to
            100% depowerable LEI (see
            http://www.kiteforum.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2309240 )

            See how the "back line/front line as a continuous loop" and how "fully
            sheet out" the kite is?

            As usual, it normally discussed on the kitesurf group first and of
            course everything here is "patent free"...

            P.S., Note my prediction last year: "I do hope that the "back
            line/front line as a continous loop" idea is not patented (I don't
            think it is as you need some very specific application for patenting);
            otherwise, only one company can built 100% fully sheet out sled LEI
            kite" ?

            Hung.
          • Josué Victor Andrade Júnior
            Hello, My new email is windjosue@yahoo.com.br ... _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™: Keep your life in sync.
            Message 5 of 17 , Jul 1, 2009
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              Hello,

              My new email is windjosue@...






              > To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
              > From: hungvu2000@...
              > Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 01:26:16 +0000
              > Subject: Re: RES: [ksurf] Fully sheet out kites - Windwing new system
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "hungvuatnetcomdotca"
              > <hungvu2000@r...> wrote:
              > > --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, georgeiw@a... wrote:
              > > > The way the middle line goes from being a brake line to the B/A line
              > > > regulator is similar to the way the lines work in the Cabrinha recon
              > > system where the
              > > > front and rear lines are a continuos loop with stoppers to lock it
              > > into the
              > > > powered position.
              > >
              > > I am not sure who comes up with the "back line/front line as a
              > > continous loop" idea, Flysurfer or Cabrinha (in their RECON system),
              > > but I can see that this idea can be used for a 100% fully sheet out
              > > sled LEI kite (which of course eliminates the safety leash and
              > > automatically flip the kite over on its back ready for relaunch)
              > >
              > > P.S., I do hope that the "back line/front line as a continous loop"
              > > idea is not patented (I don't think it is as you need some very
              > > specific application for patenting); otherwise, only one company can
              > > built 100% fully sheet out sled LEI kite.
              >
              > Well, last year we discussed about this here and it looks like this
              > year Windwing is coming out with a very similar system allowing 90% to
              > 100% depowerable LEI (see
              > http://www.kiteforum.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2309240 )
              >
              > See how the "back line/front line as a continuous loop" and how "fully
              > sheet out" the kite is?
              >
              > As usual, it normally discussed on the kitesurf group first and of
              > course everything here is "patent free"...
              >
              > P.S., Note my prediction last year: "I do hope that the "back
              > line/front line as a continous loop" idea is not patented (I don't
              > think it is as you need some very specific application for patenting);
              > otherwise, only one company can built 100% fully sheet out sled LEI
              > kite" ?
              >
              > Hung.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
              > http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the answers
              > to the most frequently asked questions.
              >
              > === to unsubscribe, please send an email to kitesurf-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ===
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              >
              >
              >
              >

              _________________________________________________________________
              Windows Live�: Keep your life in sync.
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