Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

RE: [ksurf] Mel's lofting

Expand Messages
  • Dènis Riedijk
    ... It has already been posted on e.g. www.kiteforum.com ... According to Mel, he launched his kite on the side of the window (a G-Arc 13) so that was
    Message 1 of 11 , Jun 1, 2003
      > While we are waiting for Mel's story:

      It has already been posted on e.g. www.kiteforum.com

      <SNIP>

      > He states the typical launching of a foil kite - dead downwind
      > and you have to run to the kite as you launch it-
      > is a real problem here in our gusty conditions.

      According to Mel, he launched his kite on the side of the window (a
      G-Arc 13) so that was not the cause of this particular accident. I am
      btw. always shocked if I see someone launch e.g. a flysurfer. I cannot
      understand why people want to put themselves through that experience ;)

      > If you have to 'grab' your board
      > while doing this to go out and IF
      > you miss grabbing your board and
      > have to come back to it -
      > you will have doubled your problem here.

      He did indeed miss his board while going out, and stated the in the
      future he will put his board more downwind. The fact he had to bring the
      kite to the other side to get back to his board was what caused the
      accident.

      Grtz,
      Dènis
    • fly
      Scott, Your launch method sounds a little dangerous to me. Is it correct that your launching while standing in the water with the kite on the land side rather
      Message 2 of 11 , Jun 1, 2003
        Scott,
        Your launch method sounds a little dangerous to me.
        Is it correct that your launching while standing in the water with the kite on the land side rather than the water side?
        Isn't that in itself a recipe for disaster in gust conditions?
        Or is there something particular about your launch site which requires a launch with the kite land side rather than water side?
        Matt
        snip>

        With inflatables - we walk out into the surf/water with bar and board.
        we launch the self launch kite side angle to the wind at the edge of the wind

        window.
        Then we carefully fly it over zenith to the water side,
        ALL while being in thigh to waist deep water,
        with our board in hand or attached by leash already.
        If we get lofted while doing this we continue to bring the kite
        over head to water side closer to the edge of the window.
        Thus diminshing the lofting effect.

        snip>

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Meyer, Chris (MOZ)
        Hi David, It all depends on your Kite Spot and the conditions around it. Speak to those that have used the spot for awhile, get to know what the wind is like
        Message 3 of 11 , Jun 1, 2003
          Hi David,

          It all depends on your Kite Spot and the conditions around it.
          Speak to those that have used the spot for awhile, get to know
          what the wind is like when it's hot & cold.

          E.g. At our spot we have loads of flat area and we never get lofted
          and we too keep our kites at Zenith.

          My point really is to know the conditions and be ready for the un-expected.
          If you move to a new spot and go away for a kite weekend, speak to those who
          kite there and find out what the wind conditions are like.

          My respects to Mel....and I am not trying to contradict her warning as I
          practice it at my spot, as you never know what can happen.

          Try be prepared and kite safe!
          Chris

          -----Original Message-----
          From: David Alger [mailto:DAlger@...]
          Sent: 30 May 2003 16:19
          To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [ksurf] Mel's lofting


          Goodspeed, Mel!

          At Cabarete, Zenith parking is a way of life. EVERY rider does it.
          EVERY instructor teaches it. Park you kite and eat a sandwich hooked
          in. Side on 25 knots. Palms and hotels be dammed. I don't know what
          to think. - new rider.


          This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com Kitesurfing

          http://www.KiteHIGH.com
          ph: 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA or
          ph: 1 808 637 KITE (5483)
          Em: support@...

          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        • Andy Chapman
          You can launch your foil from the water...you can side launch your foil...and yes you can down wind launch your foil if you feel like it. In light winds with
          Message 4 of 11 , Jun 2, 2003
            You can launch your foil from the water...you can side launch your foil...and yes you can down wind launch your foil if you feel like it.

            In light winds with smaller foils I launch downwind...as soon as the wind gets up - you sand one tip walk 90 deg and do a nice unassisted /assisted side launch...no different from a lei. Its just a case of thinking about it sometimes...and its easy to forget in the excitement of wanting to get out on the water.

            It's just foil users get used to the ease of solo launching that they often don't follow the same practices that lei users are forced to use.

            pip pip

            andy

            -----Original Message-----
            From: LA2WNDSRF@... [mailto:LA2WNDSRF@...]
            Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 17:50
            To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [ksurf] Mel's lofting


            FYI on launching kites at Killer Kabrillo.

            While we are waiting for Mel's story:
            Since I only used foils for initial training on land,
            I talked with a former foil kiter,an accomplished kiter,
            that kites with me at Killer Kabrillo,
            he switched a
            long time ago to inflatables .

            He states the typical launching of a foil kite - dead downwind
            and you have to run to the kite as you launch it-
            is a real problem here in our gusty conditions.
            If you have to 'grab' your board
            while doing this to go out and IF
            you miss grabbing your board and
            have to come back to it -
            you will have doubled your problem here.

            With inflatables - we walk out into the surf/water with bar and board.
            we launch the self launch kite side angle to the wind at the edge of the wind

            window.
            Then we carefully fly it over zenith to the water side,
            ALL while being in thigh to waist deep water,
            with our board in hand or attached by leash already.
            If we get lofted while doing this we continue to bring the kite
            over head to water side closer to the edge of the window.
            Thus diminshing the lofting effect.

            We may be pulled by a strong gust - but we are going out to sea
            and we are no longer being lofted. Or we can land in some water to
            break our fall. Then we just grab the board and put it on our feet and go.
            Others at other typical locations probably launch similarly.
            Scott


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


            This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com Kitesurfing

            http://www.KiteHIGH.com
            ph: 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA or
            ph: 1 808 637 KITE (5483)
            Em: support@...

            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          • LA2WNDSRF@aol.com
            In a message dated 6/1/2003 2:56:28 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ... I m not sure i understand your question. But we have a short, small beach that is frequently
            Message 5 of 11 , Jun 2, 2003
              In a message dated 6/1/2003 2:56:28 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
              flightcorro@... writes:

              > Is it correct that your launching while standing in the water with the kite
              > on the land side rather than the water side?
              > Isn't that in itself a recipe for disaster in gust conditions?
              > Or is there something particular about your launch site which requires a
              > launch with the kite land side rather than water side?

              I'm not sure i understand your question.
              But we have a short, small beach that is frequently crowded with unaware
              beach walkers.

              We could launch with the kite just the opposite, while standing on land with
              the kite closer to the water with us launching it, side angle to the wind
              window, so that it is low above the water in the direction we want to go, however
              we then have to run 100ft to the water, risking a depowering of the kite
              (lull) and dumping it in the surf OR having to bring it over too high to maintain
              power (and possibly getting lofted over land !).
              So it is better for us to bring it over head from land while we are in water
              - remember, these are very gusty conditions to launch.
              Good luck in imagining this since you can't 'see' what i am talking about.
              Scott


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • LA2WNDSRF@aol.com
              In a message dated 6/1/2003 10:26:22 AM Pacific Daylight Time, ... I can only take your word for that, having not talked with Mel (I know him as Tom) since his
              Message 6 of 11 , Jun 2, 2003
                In a message dated 6/1/2003 10:26:22 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
                denis.riedijk@... writes:

                > He did indeed miss his board while going out, and stated the in the
                > future he will put his board more downwind. The fact he had to bring the
                > kite to the other side to get back to his board was what caused the
                > accident.
                >

                I can only take your word for that, having not talked with Mel (I know him as

                Tom) since his recovery. He probably had to bring kite to the 'other side' to
                power
                it up to walk back - that is dangerous.

                And that is why we usually launch from water
                (as explained in earlier post)
                AGAIN-
                SO when we have to power up the kite after a lull by bringing it
                over to the 'other side', say the 11 oclock postion,
                if we get lofted we drop on to water which can give us
                more time to bring it back over the water again to the
                3 oclock position(non lofting position)
                to go out on starboard.
                It is hard to explain these things with words, but good luck in understanding
                it....

                Fortunately most new kites (X2, Rhino 2,etc) don't "hindenberg", but
                that can still happen here at Killer Kabrillo.
                Because a gust here can disappear in a split second,
                dropping your kite OR you from a jump- like a rock.
                That is something you have to experience and get a feel for
                in order to avoid it. Not a fun lesson to take. Fortunately they are usually
                less than 10ft drops into water.
                Kinda like the high diver in a Circus Side Show, diving into a bathtub.
                Splat.
                Scott


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Dènis Riedijk
                Please don t take my word, its best if you read what he wrote exactly (especially since you are familiar with the spot) Second hand info is always worse :)
                Message 7 of 11 , Jun 2, 2003
                  Please don't take my word, its best if you read what he wrote exactly
                  (especially since you are familiar with the spot) Second hand info is
                  always worse :)

                  http://www.kiteforum.com/index.php?page=http://www.kiteforum.com/phpbb/v
                  iewtopic.php?t=10802&navi=1&button=forum

                  It is the second post.

                  I have understood from posts of Mel (or Tom indeed) from the past that
                  the spot is indeed not an easy launch. I am just feeling more lucky with
                  my beach which is >400 meters wide. Although I have moved now, and still
                  feel quite uncomfortable with my new beach that is +- 100 meters wide.

                  No rocks fortunately :)

                  Grtz,
                  Dènis

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: LA2WNDSRF@... [mailto:LA2WNDSRF@...]
                  Sent: maandag 2 juni 2003 18:56
                  To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [ksurf] Mel's lofting

                  In a message dated 6/1/2003 10:26:22 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
                  denis.riedijk@... writes:

                  > He did indeed miss his board while going out, and stated the in the
                  > future he will put his board more downwind. The fact he had to bring
                  the
                  > kite to the other side to get back to his board was what caused the
                  > accident.
                  >

                  I can only take your word for that, having not talked with Mel (I know
                  him as

                  Tom) since his recovery. He probably had to bring kite to the 'other
                  side' to
                  power
                  it up to walk back - that is dangerous.

                  And that is why we usually launch from water
                  (as explained in earlier post)
                  AGAIN-
                  SO when we have to power up the kite after a lull by bringing it
                  over to the 'other side', say the 11 oclock postion,
                  if we get lofted we drop on to water which can give us
                  more time to bring it back over the water again to the
                  3 oclock position(non lofting position)
                  to go out on starboard.
                  It is hard to explain these things with words, but good luck in
                  understanding
                  it....

                  Fortunately most new kites (X2, Rhino 2,etc) don't "hindenberg", but
                  that can still happen here at Killer Kabrillo.
                  Because a gust here can disappear in a split second,
                  dropping your kite OR you from a jump- like a rock.
                  That is something you have to experience and get a feel for
                  in order to avoid it. Not a fun lesson to take. Fortunately they are
                  usually
                  less than 10ft drops into water.
                  Kinda like the high diver in a Circus Side Show, diving into a bathtub.
                  Splat.
                  Scott


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


                  This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com Kitesurfing

                  http://www.KiteHIGH.com
                  ph: 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA or
                  ph: 1 808 637 KITE (5483)
                  Em: support@...

                  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                  http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                • Greg Walsh
                  I launch my foils from downwind and immediately fly them to the side of the window on the seaward side. It is best to launch with less inflation, say just
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jun 2, 2003
                    I launch my foils from downwind and immediately fly them to the side
                    of the window on the seaward side.

                    It is best to launch with less inflation, say just enough to form a
                    bubble along the LE. A fully inflated kite will have too much power
                    and may require the downwind run or dragging. A partially inflated
                    foil kite generates very little pull but is very steerable and
                    controllable.

                    The kite fully inflates by the time it has reached the side of the
                    window.

                    Actually the time a foil becomes a handful is just after you have
                    landed it. Then you have a fully inflated, fully powered kite sitting
                    downwind waiting for you to release the brake so it can fly again.
                    There are some improved systems appearing on the scene but so far LEI
                    and Arcs definitely have an advantage in this area.

                    Regards

                    Greg
                  • flkiter
                    ... it. ... hooked ... what ... I for one NEVER fly my kite at zenith, especially at places like Cabarete. I have seen many riders that do this, and it almost
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jun 3, 2003
                      >
                      >
                      > Goodspeed, Mel!
                      >
                      > At Cabarete, Zenith parking is a way of life. EVERY rider does
                      it.
                      > EVERY instructor teaches it. Park you kite and eat a sandwich
                      hooked
                      > in. Side on 25 knots. Palms and hotels be dammed. I don't know
                      what
                      > to think. - new rider.
                      >

                      I for one NEVER fly my kite at zenith, especially at places like
                      Cabarete. I have seen many riders that do this, and it almost always
                      ends in a dangerous situation.
                      On Saturday I was at one of our local spots and the wind was cranking
                      dead on shore and gusting between 10 and 25 (nice huh?) Our local
                      instructor was there flying a foil (I won't mention the brand) and he
                      was continuously flying it straight over head. There was a very crazy
                      uplift going on right at the waters edge, and his kite kept colapsing
                      and then reopening right in the power zone. I suggested that he fly
                      it down near the water to prevent this and he told me that these
                      foils don't fly like that. I had to hold his harness (as his feet
                      were off the ground the whole time) and walk him out in the water so
                      he could put his board on. To make a long story short, his kite ended
                      up in the trees THREE times that day! I helped him the firat two
                      times but the last time he was on his own. Each time this happened
                      there were people straight downwind of him. And remember, this is an
                      instructor! I just don't get it.
                      Kite-on,
                      GK
                    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.