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[ksurf] Re: Stoked too! and question

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  • Stephen McCormack
    Hi Antonio, Should all kitchen knife manufacturers be blamed for all the stabbings that happen? Should all care makers be blamed for the outrageous behaviour
    Message 1 of 17 , Nov 1, 1999
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      Hi Antonio,
      Should all kitchen knife manufacturers be blamed for all
      the stabbings that happen? Should all care makers be blamed for the
      outrageous behaviour of some motorists? Should I be blamed for the behavior
      of a kiteflyer who ignores my safety recommendations and goes out flying
      drunk in offshore conditions on a crowded beach? He certainly was not drunk
      when I sold him the kite and He got about one hour of my time and could fly
      it OK when he left me, luckily no-one has been hurt by this guy yet.
      I suggest you rethink who is responsible for your actions and
      Goodwinds
      Steve McCormack
      www.kitepoweraustralia.com
      kitepower@...
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Antonio Lage <alage@...>
      To: <kitesurf@egroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, November 01, 1999 12:53 PM
      Subject: [ksurf] Re: Stoked too! and question


      >
      > Hi,
      >
      > Everyone is remembering their bad experiences so here goes mine...it was
      > the first post I made to this list in January 99. I had just received my
      > first power kite and the mistakes I made are very similar to the ones Mark
      > Valentin did.
      > My oppinion now is that if a product is advertized and sold with out
      > restrictions, and someone buys this product and makes a mess, the error is
      > not the buyer, but the sellers
      > and manufaturers who are afraid to associate a "dangerous" image to their
      > products. Parachutes and paragliders have patches attached to then where
      is
      > written something like "DANGER - DO NOT USE WITHOUT PROPPER INSTRUCTION!
      > LIFE RISK INVOLVED!"
      >
      >
      > ----------------------------------------
      >
      >
      > Hi all! I am a beguiner kitesurfer from Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, and this
      > last sunday I made my first try at Kitesurfing. The equipament I was using
      > was an 8.5 Wipika kite and a 6'8" Timpone kite board. I aquired this kit
      > trough the Internet from Hawaiian Pro Line (they were very helpfull and
      the
      > transaction went very smootly - thanks Karen Baxter and Mauricio). Reading
      > a detailed description of what happened to me may be boring to more
      > experienced kitesurfers, but I am sure it is interesting reading for the
      > beguiners that subscribe to this list because I made every single mistake
      > that someone can possibly make in starting in this sport.
      > All the information I had about this sport came from the Net, looking at
      > sites and reading this list. I am 38 years old and my background is from
      > skydiving, paragliding, surfing and windsurfing, so I figured I had a good
      > chace to learn by myself. Following instructions from the Net, while I
      > waited for the delivery of the Wipika I got a small two line delta kite
      and
      > started practicing almost every day. I got very competent at it.
      >
      > My first mistake was not to follow the more experienced guy. The day my
      > kit arrived Stefano Rosso (the moderator of this list and a conpetent
      > kitesurfer) was visiting Rio and had invited me to join him in a
      television
      > shooting at a beach in Rio de Janeiro where he could give me some
      > instructions and point me in the right direction, but since the day
      started
      > with a strong morning breaze (8-10 nots) and a building ground swell
      hiting
      > all coast of Rio, I decided it was wiser for me to go to a local lake,
      > where all windsurfers learn. The problem was that the lake is shallow only
      > at the borders, and is surounded by high casuarina trees.
      > Then I made my second mistake. I enlisted a group of windsurfing friends
      > to help me out but didn't breef then enough on how to handle the kite, and
      > we all got carried away by a "new toy" atmosphere. After some fumbling
      with
      > the lines and the kite I was finally ready to inflate the wing standing in
      > chest deep water, but one of the kite holders let go to soon and the kite
      > shoot up in the wrong direction (towards the trees). I lost my footing,
      got
      > lunched forward and saw my brand new Wipika, in its very first flight,
      warp
      > around the top of a 40 foot casuarina tree and start flapping in the 10-15
      > not breeze. I was desolated.
      > I took about 40 minutes to get the kite down (by miracle without any
      > damage), calm myself, untwist the lines and get ready for a second try. By
      > now a small crowd of windsurfers and onlookers had assembled and they
      where
      > all talking at the same time and giving opinions. The second try went like
      > this: I managed to inflate te kite and stabilize it at the top of the
      > flight window. Two friends holding me in the back, and two other friens
      > holding the board put my feet firmily in the footstraps. I started doing
      > small s turns with the kite, could stand up and drift forward for about 20
      > meters and got lunched forward again. By then I was in deep water and even
      > with the kite stabilized at the top of the flight window I was drifting
      > downwind at an alarming speed. I tryed by all means to get the board under
      > my feet but could not because the drifting created a water flow that made
      > every move very dificult. Since the lake is not very wide and there was
      > more high trees downwind of me I decided to pull the quick realese and let
      > the kite fall to the water. It took me about one hour to swim to shore,
      > pack everything and walk trough comdominiuns and public streets to get
      back
      > to the windsurfing club. I was wasted.
      > After some rest I decided that plan A was not going very well and started
      > thinking about plan B. In the middle of the lake there is a sandbar where
      > the windsurfers had planted a windsock. I have an old course-racing board
      > (Mistral Equipe). I fashioned a leash and atached it to the back
      > footstraps. I then paddled the board to the sandbar and strapped it to the
      > windsock mast. I swam back to shore and started geting the kite ready. My
      > plan was to get the kite flying, drift sideways to the sandbar where I
      > could get a foot holding and try to stand up in the course-board using
      very
      > little kite power, and try to cross the lake very slowly, allways keeping
      > the kite at the top of the window, just to get the feeling of it.
      > Problems started again when launching the kite, as the kite holders again
      > made a mess and the kite ended again in the trees. This time where much
      > lower trees, but kind of a mangroove tree (very twisted and sticky). Many
      > more time puling and tugging to free the whole shit. I have read about how
      > Wipika kites are fragile and that they burst easily, but this one survived
      > two tree landings and came out without a single scratch! The crowd had
      lost
      > interest and most where just siting on the lake shore only watching and
      > laghing. Then plan B started working fine. I got the kite flying, drifted
      > to the sandbar and unstraped the waiting board from the windsock mast. A
      > this point I got cheers from the crowd on shore. People where starting to
      > bealive that I was going to make it.
      > One last problem remained. I had to lower myself and strap the leash to my
      > ankle. One moment of mental lapse, and I let the kite fly to low and start
      > draging me again, the kite getting dangerously close to a windsurfing
      > student that was passing by. To avoid a disaster a let go of the board to
      > try to control the kite, got draged to deep water again, without the board
      > and with more cheers from the crowd. I was again with the kite a the top
      of
      > the window drifting downwind at a considerable rate. I had no option but
      to
      > pull the quick realese and let the kite fall. I swam to shore, friends
      > retrieved my lost board and I decided to call it a day. The crowd
      imediatly
      > dispersed like it was the end of a show. I know I had done everything
      > wrong, and probably put the lives and property of other people at risk
      more
      > than my own. But there is no denying. I had a blast!!
      >
      > Best regards,
      >
      > Antonio (Tunico) Lage
      > http://www.tvbox.com.br
      >
      > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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      >
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      >
    • burgy@talk21.com
      I ve been flying for 10 years, mostly at gusty inland small venues, and never had an acident. Sure i ve had scrapes & knocks but nothing serious. Ever year you
      Message 2 of 17 , Nov 1, 1999
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        I've been flying for 10 years, mostly at gusty inland small venues, and
        never had an acident. Sure i've had scrapes & knocks but nothing
        serious. Ever year you hear about a couple of people localy who have
        hurt them selves when flying over land why?

        here are a few of the comon problems from around our way

        NOT STANDING UP
        when flying on land dont sit down, you have no room to react to the
        kite powering up, if the kite trys to lift you bend your knees & lean
        back till the gust passes, if your sitting down you,ll get lifted &
        dropped one broken leg & one dislocated knee becuse of this.

        TO MUCH GRIP ON YOUR SHOES
        seams strange this one but if you slip down wind the pull will be
        reduced plus its fun, not seen any direct damage from this but the
        superman impressions resulting from the pull look fairly painfull.

        PEOPLE HOLDING ON TO YOU
        dont let anyone hold on to you when flying without a harness, there
        weigth will go straight through your arms, If youve ever dislocated you
        elbow then you'll know how much it hurts. Anchoring your self to the
        ground will also be a hazard to your health.

        LONG LINES
        This is particualy relevant to inland flyers, The strength of the wind
        is dependant on the hight from the floor, inland not only do you have
        this wind gradent to contend with you will also get huge holes at
        verying heights. At my local site its not unusual to hav 3 or 4
        distinct bands of wind, at ground level you have trouble getting off
        the ground 10 feet up it flys, 25 it pulls well, over 50, oh my god!
        armergedon, msot people arnt aware of this & why should they be? short
        lines will help with this they also reduce the amount of pull the kite
        will create helping the problem.

        the problem most new flyers seam to have is on one beleives how much
        pull a modern kite will produce, we've all tryed to explane what we do
        in our spare time no one fullyaprecates what its like till they have
        had a go.
        An experance flyer i know upgraded from a set of v old quadrafoils to
        some loverly new blades he'd heard about how much they pull so he tied
        himself o a rugby post so he wouldnt disapear off down wind, he didnt,
        he went straight up, scared him self silly and didnt fly again for 4
        months.

        What we do is dangerous, there are inherant risks, no one can predict
        the future and even experanced flyers make misakes. its up the
        manufactures to make sure people are aware of what there flying and how
        it will perform but even then not everyone will read what they say.

        So be aware of your suroundings, watch out for those people who stand
        under your kite staring up at it thinking is'nt it pretty, is this just
        some thing that happens in the uk? and dont be afraid to put yor kite
        away before things get beond your control.

        Kites are fun, jumpings fun, just remember its a fine line between fun
        & folly

        just my 2 cents worth
        Steve












        "stephen mccormack" <kitepowe-@...> wrote:
        original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/kitesurf/?start=6389
        > Hi Antonio,
        > Should all kitchen knife manufacturers be blamed
        for all
        > the stabbings that happen? Should all care makers be blamed for the
        > outrageous behaviour of some motorists? Should I be blamed for the
        behavior
        > of a kiteflyer who ignores my safety recommendations and goes out
        flying
        > drunk in offshore conditions on a crowded beach? He certainly was not
        drunk
        > when I sold him the kite and He got about one hour of my time and
        could fly
        > it OK when he left me, luckily no-one has been hurt by this guy yet.
        > I suggest you rethink who is responsible for your actions and
        > Goodwinds
        > Steve McCormack
        > www.kitepoweraustralia.com
        > kitepower@...
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: Antonio Lage <alage@...>
        > To: <kitesurf@egroups.com>
        > Sent: Monday, November 01, 1999 12:53 PM
        > Subject: [ksurf] Re: Stoked too! and question
        >
        >
        > >
        > > Hi,
        > >
        > > Everyone is remembering their bad experiences so here goes
        mine...it was
        > > the first post I made to this list in January 99. I had just
        received my
        > > first power kite and the mistakes I made are very similar to the
        ones Mark
        > > Valentin did.
        > > My oppinion now is that if a product is advertized and sold with out
        > > restrictions, and someone buys this product and makes a mess, the
        error is
        > > not the buyer, but the sellers
        > > and manufaturers who are afraid to associate a "dangerous" image to
        their
        > > products. Parachutes and paragliders have patches attached to then
        where
        > is
        > > written something like "DANGER - DO NOT USE WITHOUT PROPPER
        INSTRUCTION!
        > > LIFE RISK INVOLVED!"
        > >
        > >
        > > ----------------------------------------
        > >
        > >
        > > Hi all! I am a beguiner kitesurfer from Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, and
        this
        > > last sunday I made my first try at Kitesurfing. The equipament I
        was using
        > > was an 8.5 Wipika kite and a 6'8" Timpone kite board. I aquired
        this kit
        > > trough the Internet from Hawaiian Pro Line (they were very helpfull
        and
        > the
        > > transaction went very smootly - thanks Karen Baxter and Mauricio).
        Reading
        > > a detailed description of what happened to me may be boring to more
        > > experienced kitesurfers, but I am sure it is interesting reading
        for the
        > > beguiners that subscribe to this list because I made every single
        mistake
        > > that someone can possibly make in starting in this sport.
        > > All the information I had about this sport came from the Net,
        looking at
        > > sites and reading this list. I am 38 years old and my background is
        from
        > > skydiving, paragliding, surfing and windsurfing, so I figured I had
        a good
        > > chace to learn by myself. Following instructions from the Net,
        while I
        > > waited for the delivery of the Wipika I got a small two line delta
        kite
        > and
        > > started practicing almost every day. I got very competent at it.
        > >
        > > My first mistake was not to follow the more experienced guy. The
        day my
        > > kit arrived Stefano Rosso (the moderator of this list and a
        conpetent
        > > kitesurfer) was visiting Rio and had invited me to join him in a
        > television
        > > shooting at a beach in Rio de Janeiro where he could give me some
        > > instructions and point me in the right direction, but since the day
        > started
        > > with a strong morning breaze (8-10 nots) and a building ground swell
        > hiting
        > > all coast of Rio, I decided it was wiser for me to go to a local
        lake,
        > > where all windsurfers learn. The problem was that the lake is
        shallow only
        > > at the borders, and is surounded by high casuarina trees.
        > > Then I made my second mistake. I enlisted a group of windsurfing
        friends
        > > to help me out but didn't breef then enough on how to handle the
        kite, and
        > > we all got carried away by a "new toy" atmosphere. After some
        fumbling
        > with
        > > the lines and the kite I was finally ready to inflate the wing
        standing in
        > > chest deep water, but one of the kite holders let go to soon and
        the kite
        > > shoot up in the wrong direction (towards the trees). I lost my
        footing,
        > got
        > > lunched forward and saw my brand new Wipika, in its very first
        flight,
        > warp
        > > around the top of a 40 foot casuarina tree and start flapping in
        the 10-15
        > > not breeze. I was desolated.
        > > I took about 40 minutes to get the kite down (by miracle without any
        > > damage), calm myself, untwist the lines and get ready for a second
        try. By
        > > now a small crowd of windsurfers and onlookers had assembled and
        they
        > where
        > > all talking at the same time and giving opinions. The second try
        went like
        > > this: I managed to inflate te kite and stabilize it at the top of
        the
        > > flight window. Two friends holding me in the back, and two other
        friens
        > > holding the board put my feet firmily in the footstraps. I started
        doing
        > > small s turns with the kite, could stand up and drift forward for
        about 20
        > > meters and got lunched forward again. By then I was in deep water
        and even
        > > with the kite stabilized at the top of the flight window I was
        drifting
        > > downwind at an alarming speed. I tryed by all means to get the
        board under
        > > my feet but could not because the drifting created a water flow
        that made
        > > every move very dificult. Since the lake is not very wide and there
        was
        > > more high trees downwind of me I decided to pull the quick realese
        and let
        > > the kite fall to the water. It took me about one hour to swim to
        shore,
        > > pack everything and walk trough comdominiuns and public streets to
        get
        > back
        > > to the windsurfing club. I was wasted.
        > > After some rest I decided that plan A was not going very well and
        started
        > > thinking about plan B. In the middle of the lake there is a sandbar
        where
        > > the windsurfers had planted a windsock. I have an old course-racing
        board
        > > (Mistral Equipe). I fashioned a leash and atached it to the back
        > > footstraps. I then paddled the board to the sandbar and strapped it
        to the
        > > windsock mast. I swam back to shore and started geting the kite
        ready. My
        > > plan was to get the kite flying, drift sideways to the sandbar
        where I
        > > could get a foot holding and try to stand up in the course-board
        using
        > very
        > > little kite power, and try to cross the lake very slowly, allways
        keeping
        > > the kite at the top of the window, just to get the feeling of it.
        > > Problems started again when launching the kite, as the kite holders
        again
        > > made a mess and the kite ended again in the trees. This time where
        much
        > > lower trees, but kind of a mangroove tree (very twisted and
        sticky). Many
        > > more time puling and tugging to free the whole shit. I have read
        about how
        > > Wipika kites are fragile and that they burst easily, but this one
        survived
        > > two tree landings and came out without a single scratch! The crowd
        had
        > lost
        > > interest and most where just siting on the lake shore only watching
        and
        > > laghing. Then plan B started working fine. I got the kite flying,
        drifted
        > > to the sandbar and unstraped the waiting board from the windsock
        mast. A
        > > this point I got cheers from the crowd on shore. People where
        starting to
        > > bealive that I was going to make it.
        > > One last problem remained. I had to lower myself and strap the
        leash to my
        > > ankle. One moment of mental lapse, and I let the kite fly to low
        and start
        > > draging me again, the kite getting dangerously close to a
        windsurfing
        > > student that was passing by. To avoid a disaster a let go of the
        board to
        > > try to control the kite, got draged to deep water again, without
        the board
        > > and with more cheers from the crowd. I was again with the kite a
        the top
        > of
        > > the window drifting downwind at a considerable rate. I had no
        option but
        > to
        > > pull the quick realese and let the kite fall. I swam to shore,
        friends
        > > retrieved my lost board and I decided to call it a day. The crowd
        > imediatly
        > > dispersed like it was the end of a show. I know I had done
        everything
        > > wrong, and probably put the lives and property of other people at
        risk
        > more
        > > than my own. But there is no denying. I had a blast!!
        > >
        > > Best regards,
        > >
        > > Antonio (Tunico) Lage
        > > http://www.tvbox.com.br
        > >
      • Frank Kubin
        Message 3 of 17 , Nov 1, 1999
        • 0 Attachment
          <<We begginers are very keen to learn - and take things slowly if need be...
          There seems to be a bit of criticism of learners on this group - and lots
          of repeated emails saying how were all going to kill people, and we dont
          know what we are doing etc.
          A more constructuve approach might be for the 'experts' to pass on their
          experiences so that learners know what to expect in different situations,
          and when things go wrong.
          Otherwise - the only way to learn is the hard way...
          How was thins guy suppossed to know that his kite could end up on
          some ones house - with out being told as too what can go wrong?>>

          Point #1-They are called 'POWER' kites for a reason. Anything strong enough
          to lift a grown man out of the water is producing a large amount of power.
          Would you stick your hand in a sailboat winch? Think of the kite as a large
          sail and the lines as the main sheets (lines).


          Rule #1- Do Not fly over people or near damageable property. This includes
          any where along the lines.


          <<I (very catiously) ventured out in 20-25 knots today with my new 9.0meter
          Naish kite - as I need to know more about what happens in strong wind, in
          case
          I find myself suddendly in strong wind when I'm not ready for it.
          So I went to a big beach, with now one around, and someone to help.
          It wasn't much fun, and was quite scary - and I was very hard to keep from
          being picked up and slamed onto the beach at times...
          I had one run on the board - and was quite out of control. So I packed up
          after about 20mins.>>

          Then you were smart enough to try something unknown in a totally safe (for
          others) area. So should everyone until they know what these large kites are
          capable of. Any reading of this egroup would reveal that 20-25 knots is ALOT
          for a 9.0 Naish. An experienced person would be riding at the limits of
          control. It can be useful to try out of control situations to see what
          happens at the limits, as you said, but ALWAYS in a very safe (to others)
          area.
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