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Re: Kiteboarding Mag Attitude Problem

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  • music642000 <srl@ihug.com.au>
    John, they might be targetiing a certain demographic but that doesn t mean they are targeting the right one. From what I ve seen at the local sites here there
    Message 1 of 20 , Jan 2, 2003
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      John,
      they might be targetiing a certain demographic but that doesn't mean
      they are targeting the right one. From what I've seen at the local
      sites here there are more women and older guys kitesurfing than
      skateboarders and young 'dudes'. Maybe they need to do a bit more
      market research as the demographic for the average kitesurfer is
      changing as it becomes more popular. If it's the wrong sport for 99%
      of the population then Naish wouldn't be making much money and the
      sport wouldn't be as popular as it is becoming.
      Scott

      --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "John Penxa <johnpenxa@h...>"
      <johnpenxa@h...> wrote:
      > Jim,
      >
      > Please take you witch hunt else where.
      >
      > Btw: The industry's targeted market is Skateboarders, Wake
      boarders
      > and Snowboarders.
      >
      > Have you taken a look at a typical mag from any one of these
      > sports??? If you have not, please do, only then will you fully
      > understand how ALL of your points are moot!
      >
      > Like it or not, KB is effectively marketing to a targeted
      > demographic!!!
      >
      > Jim, while you appear to be well written, however your points
      > couldn't hold LESS merit and or value. In case you were not aware
      > Being 'well writen' and making a point that acutely holds merit
      are
      > two entirely different issues.
      >
      > Naish said it in 2001. Kitesurfing, is absolutely the wrong sport
      > for 99% of the worlds population. Please follow Naish's words of
      > wisdom and re-join the community you belong to.
      >
      > Thanks!
      >
      > jp
      >
      >
      >
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "jimhartnett45
      > <jimhartnett45@y...>"
      > > <jimhartnett45@y...> wrote:
      > > > Kiteboarding Magazine and its editor, Ryan Riccitelli, seem to
      > > > have an attitude problem. The "in your face" attempts to be
      super
      > > > cool give kitesurfing a bad name and contribute to negative
      > > > public perceptions of our sport.
      > > >
      > > > Case 1: Ryan seems obsessed by pornography. He feels
      > > > compelled to ask almost every one of the "youth brigade"
      > > > interviewees about pornography. eg Q to Garfield King (age 14):
      > > > [Which do you prefer] "Stuff or Penthouse?" Funny huh? Pretty
      > > > cool? Does implicit (even attempted humourous) endorsement
      > > > of pornography to minors cross a legal boundary? Similar
      > > > questions abound in previous issues. Do questions like this
      > > > help to make the female readership feel comfortable? Does it
      > > > help to dispel the macho image of Kitesurfing and attract women
      > > > kitesurfers?
      > > >
      > > > Case 2: A recent issue of Kiteboarding Mag featured a picture
      of
      > > > an obese kitesurfer wearing a helmet with a large
      caption:"Don't
      > > > Be a Helmet." The juxtaposition was clearly disparaging the man
      > > > featured in the photograph in particular and the wearing of a
      > > > helmet in general. All other photos in the magazine showed
      > > > muscled athletic kitesurfers generally wearing no safety
      > > > precautions (helmets, leashes, impact vests). It was no
      > > > coincidence that only one photo displayed an obese, unfit
      > > > middle-aged man in an unflattering pose wearing a HELMET.
      > > > "Kiteboarding Mag" tried desperately to backtrack in its Jan
      2003
      > > > edition by describing the poor man featured as a "cool guy that
      I
      > > > met in Texas who was learning to kite." Maybe the mag decided
      > > > to call the poor man "cool" because he was threatening to sue
      > > > their pants off. The editorial attempts at justification were
      sad
      > > > and bordered on the ridiculous. Ryan admits he was equating
      > > > the word "helmet" with "dick" (as in dickhead) but then tries
      to
      > > > say he wasn't making fun of helmets.... Go figure.
      > > >
      > > > Case 3: In its attempts to be super cool, KB Mag places little
      > > > emphasis on safety. Few articles focus specifically on safety.
      > > > Virtually no riders are shown wearing safety leashes or
      helmets.
      > > >
      > > > Case 4: Ryan slams the kiteboarding "underworld" that exists in
      > > > internet e-groups and chat rooms. He may have a point when he
      > > > says "many of these cyber-kite-boarders spend their spare time
      > > > dissecting and analyzing our sport while the rest of us are on
      > the
      > > > water progressing....oftentimes the people who answer the qs
      > > > are not qualified to respond." Yeh, these things may be true.
      But
      > > > these e-groups can be helpful (eg the Airush forum- does have a
      > > > few kooks, but is generally helpful). They also enable issues
      > like
      > > > the attitude problem of Kiteboarding Mag to be aired without
      > > > editorial censorship or a ridiculous spin being put on the
      > letters.
      > > >
      > > > There is a perception that many kiteboarders have a bad
      attitude.
      > > > Contributing to this perception are irresponsible safety
      > practices,
      > > > injuries to innocent bystanders, countless rider injuries and
      an
      > > > escalating death toll. There is a distinct subculture in
      > > kitesurfing
      > > > which espouses an "in your face" two-fingered-saluting,
      > > > trash-talking, board-short over wetsuit and penis obsessed
      > > > macho dickhead mentality. Kiteboarding Mag is in the vanguard.
      > > > It is the irresponsible, selfish, in-your-face kitesurfer who
      is
      > > > contributing to kitesurfing being banned from beaches around
      > > > the world.
      > > >
      > > > In a larger geopolitical climate, there is a perception in some
      > > > parts of the world that the Western World is decadent,
      > insensitive
      > > > to other cultures, and culturally imperialistic. It is the
      > in-your-
      > > face
      > > > aggressive macho/porno better-than-you image promoted by
      > > > organisations like Kiteboarding Mag which may help reinforce
      > > > this misconception.
      > > >
      > > > Having said all of that, I'll still be buying the Mag. There is
      > > > enough good stuff (eg location and gear reviews, trick
      > > > sequences) to keep me coming back for more. Nevertheless,
      > > > let's get real. We kitesurf because we love it; we love the
      wind,
      > > > the water, the sensation of surging through the air and water
      > > > carried on a wind borne wing. I listen to JS Bach and wear a
      > > > helmet and leash; I try to be careful of and respectful of
      other
      > > > water users. I don't need to read pornography, trash talk,
      > 2-finger
      > > > salute and disparage others to have fun on the water.
      > > >
      > > > POSTING NUMBER 2:
      > > >
      > > > Let's not let KB Mag or Ryan Riccitelli off the hook. There are
      > > > problems which should be addressed:
      > > >
      > > > 1] Ryan's pornocentric interviews to minors.
      > > > 2] Ryan's general obsession with pornography eg Continual
      > > > references to Penthouse
      > > > 3] Sexism and objectification of women eg Cyber Cindy photos. A
      > > > posting on www.kiteforum.com indicates women DO feel
      > > > uncomfortable about KB Mag's soft porn sexism.
      > > > 4] Please tell me the "Cyber Cindy" photo in the Jan 2003 issue
      > > > shows a girl over the age of 18. She certainly looks younger;
      it
      > > > would be sick and legally dubious if, as I suspect, Ryan has
      > > > published a picture of a teenager in a suggestive pose for the
      > > > average 30yo readership to ogle.
      > > > 5] There is a distinct "better than you" in your face attitude
      > > > promoted by KB Mag and Ryan. The "Don't be a Helmet" article
      > > > was clearly disparaging the obese man in the photo and the
      > > > wearing of helmets in general. Ryan's attempts at justification
      > > > WERE sad and bordered on the ridiculous. Subsequently
      > > > describing the poor guy featured as "some cool guy" was a
      > > > virtual admission of guilt. What makes a guy "cool?" "Coolness"
      > > > implies trendiness and acceptance by the clique. We don't know
      > > > anything about the poor man featured other than the fact that
      he
      > > > is obese, middle-aged, and DOESN'T fit KB's prevailing image of
      > > > "cool" because he is wearing a helmet, impact vest, seat
      > > > harness, and is striking an unflattering pose.
      > > > 6] There is a brown-nosing side to the Mag which is
      regrettable.
      > > > eg The "readers' poll" of favourite kitesurfers which simply
      > > > seemed like Ryan's attempts to suck up to a certain clique of
      > > > American riders. Why wasn't Mark Shinn featured? Surely
      > > > Americans are not so insular as to exclude a rider of Shinn's
      > > > calibre simply because he is not American? The top 10 thing
      > > > seemed symptomatic of Ryan's immaturiy and KB's attempts at
      > > > ingratiation and a reflection of insularity.
      > > > 7] There is minimal focus on safety. There is a subtle
      > > > encouragement of unsafe practices in the photos. eg No
      > > > leashes, no helmets, generally no impact vests.
      > > > 8] There IS a distinct subculture in Kitesurfing which thrives
      on
      > > > trash-talking, arrogant, in-your-face, and antisocial
      behaviour.
      > > > This subset is overly represented in injuries to themselves,
      > > > bystanders, and damage to property. This subset is helping to
      > > > bring kitesurfing into disrepute and contributing to bans. This
      > > > drunken redneck trash-talking two-finger saluting attitude is
      > > > encouraged by KB Mag in its syntax ("Dude" "Cool" "Don't be a
      > > > helmet" "Penthouse" "Sick"), articles, attitude, and soft-porn
      > > > focus.
      > > > 9] In a larger geopolitical context, we as kitesurfers, have a
      > > > responsibility to our sport and our countries. Aggression,
      > > > redneck sexism, poking fun at people who don't fit the image
      (eg
      > > > obesity) is a bad reflection on Kitesurfing and the Western
      > > > lifestyle. We probably should try to be sensitive to other
      people
      > > > and cultures in this era; KB Mag's aggro macho porno insular
      > > > attitude encourages misconceptions about the West and
      > > > encourages immitation in an impressionable immature
      > > > readership. I get angry with this arrogant
      > > > in-your-face-better-than-you attitude, and I'm a Westerner who
      > > > loves kitesurfing. Imagine the effect on a non-kitesurfer from
      > > > another culture and country.
      > > > 10] For those who say we should "get a life" and stop
      > > > complaining, that we should be kitesurfing rather than sitting
      at
      > > > our computers... Fair point. But it doesn't blow all the time
      and
      > > it
      > > > is possible to bring attention to issues like KB Mag's attitude
      > > > which DO impact on our sport.
      > > >
      > > > Kiteboarding Mag and Ryan Riccitelli DO have a bad attitude.
      > > > Some of the articles, gear and location reviews, even the ads,
      > > > will keep me coming back for more. It is still possible to like
      > the
      > > > photos, ads, reviews etc, and be repulsed by the editorial
      > > > shortcomings. I won't be voting with my wallet, I will be
      > continue
      > > > to buy the Mag, despite the sad editorial line. It is fair to
      say
      > > that
      > > > there is considerable antagonism towards KB Mag because of
      > > > its editorial line and attitude; it is probably fair to assume
      > that
      > > a
      > > > significant number of kitesurfers have vetoed the mag. It may
      be
      > > > worthwhile informing the Mag's owners [World Publications] that
      > > > their bottom line could be improved by a change of editor or
      > > > editorial attitude. Similarly, it may be worth informing some
      of
      > > > the advertisers (Naish, Wipika, Slingshot, North, Liquid Force,
      > > > Pryde, Cabrinha, Flexifoil, Honda, JoJo, Flysurfer, NSI,
      Airush)
      > > > that the redneck in-your-face aggro macho porno attitude
      > > > espoused in the Mag reflects poorly on their product.
    • John Penxa <johnpenxa@hotmail.com>
      Scott, That s a REALLY good point and question to pose to the marketing and advertising folks at Naish! :-) cheers jp
      Message 2 of 20 , Jan 2, 2003
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        Scott,

        That's a REALLY good point and question to pose to the marketing and
        advertising folks at Naish! :-)

        cheers

        jp



        > If it's the wrong sport for 99%
        > of the population then Naish wouldn't be making much money and the
        > sport wouldn't be as popular as it is becoming.
        > Scott
      • theflyingtinman <thorpes@arklogic.com>
        ... Huh? ... the world has a population of around 6.3 billion ... I think Naish s marketing and advertising folks should be capable of grabbing a big enough
        Message 3 of 20 , Jan 3, 2003
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          --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "John Penxa <johnpenxa@h...>" <johnpenxa@h...> wrote:
          > Scott,
          >
          > That's a REALLY good point and question to pose to the marketing and
          > advertising folks at Naish! :-)
          >
          > cheers
          >
          > jp
          >
          >
          >
          > > If it's the wrong sport for 99%
          > > of the population then Naish wouldn't be making much money and the
          > > sport wouldn't be as popular as it is becoming.
          > > Scott

          Huh? ... the world has a population of around 6.3 billion ... I think
          Naish's marketing and advertising folks should be capable of grabbing
          a big enough enough market share out of the 63 millon people they
          didn't exclude ;-)

          Steve T.
        • dontbuyarcs <imintheusagain@hotmail.com>
          Hi Guys, Heres another 2 cents. when was the last time you looked in any magazine and saw your average joe somebody in his budgie smugglers smiling at the
          Message 4 of 20 , Jan 3, 2003
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            Hi Guys,
            Heres another 2 cents.
            when was the last time you looked in any magazine and saw your
            average joe somebody in his budgie smugglers smiling at the camera.
            When did you last see an average looking individual on the cover of
            cosmopolitan magazine.

            Unfortunately aesthetics as it is commonly known as is the heart and
            soul of the advertising world. Magazines only became seperate from
            newspapers in the early days because of advertising restrictions.

            It really pisses me off to hear males batting for women on the
            sexism issue. I am not saying it should be done but I think there is
            a fair bit of eye candy for women at any good kiteboarding location.
            So why not in a kiteboarding magazine. Oh yeah did I mention sex
            sells?

            Ok So i'll try and sum up what you want:
            1: A magazine that agrees with your opinions on the equipment
            reviews of all thier products.
            2: A magazine with no witty slogans
            3: An uninthusiastic editor
            4: A magazine filled with pictures of middle aged men and women
            landing thier first backloops.

            And what the fuck is wrong with wearing board shorts over your
            wetsuit. Sounds to me like you are subscribing to the same morals as
            you quite obviously detest. In my opinion you can kiteboard in
            whatever you want as long as you are safe.

            Now you have got me all pissed off and have clouded the issue with
            bullshit. The real issue is not sexism or pants over your wetsuit or
            helmet man its safety. Ignoring safety will get you killed sexism at
            worst will get you a good slap in the face. I am disgusted to see
            that at the beginning of ever kiteboarding magazine on the first
            page these words do ot appear.

            ATTENTION ALL KITEBOARDERS AND PROSPECTIVES.
            KITEBOARDING IS EXTREMELY DANGEROUS AND SHOULD ONLY BE UNDERTAKEN IN
            LOCATIONS WHERE IT IS LEGAL TO KITEBOARD, BY INDIVIDUALS WITH THE
            CORRECT KNOWLEDGE AND ABILITY. ALL KITEBOARDERS FEATURED IN THIS
            MAGAZINE ARE PROFESSIONALS AND HAVE ONLY GOT THIS WAY THROUGH
            LEARNING IN THE PROPER MANNER. IF YOU ARE KITEBOARDING AMONGST OTHER
            KITEBOARDERS YOU MUST WEAR A KITE LEASH. FAILURE TO WEAR A LEASH CAN
            LEAD TO DEATH. FAILURE TO ANALYSE A KITEBOARDING LOCATION CORRECTLY
            CAN LEAD TO DEATH. FAILURE TO CONSTANTLY ANALYSE CHANGING WEATHER
            PATTERNS CAN LEAD TO DEATH. FAILURE TO WEAR ADEQUATE FLOTATION AND
            IMPACT PROTECTION DEVICE CAN LEAD TO DEATH. IF YOU VALUE YOUR LIFE
            CONSULT A PROFESSIONAL FOR ADVICE ON LESSONS AND TRAINING BEFORE
            ATTEMPTING THIS SPORT. YOU MAY ALSO WANT TO INVESTIGATE WHAT
            INSURANCE IS AVAILABLE IN YOUR AREA TO GUARD AGAINST THIRD PARTY
            PERSONAL AND PROPERTY DAMAGE LIABILITY. THE ONLY THING WORSE THAN
            INJURING OR KILLING YOURSELF IS INJURING OR KILLING SOMEONE ELSE. IF
            YOU SEE ANOTHER KITEBOARDER DOING SOMETHING YOU DEEM DANGEROUS GO
            AND OFFER ASSISTANCE. PREVENTION IS BETTER THAN CURE.

            Now all that jibbering and I hope I got the message through and all
            you people see the real picture. We can not stop everyone from
            buying a kite, not getting a lesson and going out and doing the
            kiteboarding world and themselves an injustice by having an
            accident. Next time you have something pertinent to add to the forum
            don't cloud it with sexist, opinionated propaganda. Who knows I
            might just agree with you.

            DRO.
          • kiteboard2000 <kiteboarder@pacbell.net>
            ... IF ... Well put. So how do the other supposedly superior magazines rate on the safety issues? Mel
            Message 5 of 20 , Jan 6, 2003
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              --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "dontbuyarcs <imintheusagain@h...>"
              <imintheusagain@h...> wrote:

              > The real issue is not sexism or pants over your wetsuit or
              > helmet man its safety...
              > THE ONLY THING WORSE THAN
              > INJURING OR KILLING YOURSELF IS INJURING OR KILLING SOMEONE ELSE.
              IF
              > YOU SEE ANOTHER KITEBOARDER DOING SOMETHING YOU DEEM DANGEROUS GO
              > AND OFFER ASSISTANCE. PREVENTION IS BETTER THAN CURE.

              Well put. So how do the other supposedly superior magazines rate on
              the safety issues?

              Mel
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