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Re: Kiteboarding Mag Attitude Problem

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  • Stuart Morrison <stuartcmorrison@hotmail
    A commercial magazines sole purpose is to make money & in doing so it only has to satisfy two groups. The first is the shareholders, in this case World
    Message 1 of 20 , Jan 1, 2003
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      A commercial magazines' sole purpose is to make money & in doing so
      it only has to satisfy two groups. The first is the shareholders, in
      this case World Publications & as long as the expected profit is
      being made they won't get involved. The second group is the
      advertisers. In return for chucking money at a publication
      advertisers not only want there agreed ad, placed in the most ideal
      location, they also want good reviews on there products.

      If you want honest product reviews then talk to people who have
      bought & used the kit you're asking about & who have nothing to gain
      by saying good things, this group & groups like it are ideal.

      If you really want to change this mag then don't buy it, if enough
      people feel the same way then things will change... Its simple
      economics.

      Cheers, Stuart.

      BTW. for the record we don't get this mag in the UK.
    • Anthony <captain1@iname.com>
      Jim, I dont even see why you sould want to buy the magazine at all. I have eventually found that the magazine is definitly not worth my ten bucks! The gear
      Message 2 of 20 , Jan 1, 2003
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        Jim,

        I dont even see why you sould want to buy the magazine at all. I have
        eventually found that the magazine is definitly not worth my ten
        bucks! The gear reviews are really late - I can read about the latest
        kites here and even see them on my beaches (Australia) before
        Kiteboarding has a review. Even then their reviews seem a little
        biased.

        And tricks...... shit with some of the tricks these days a photo
        sequence is really not worth a lot. First picture he is heelside.
        Next picture he is in the air backwards. What the F$ck happened in
        between?? Oh there is a caption lets read it. It has words that I
        never heard of "tantrum", "KGB", etc...... If I go from heal side to
        a tantrum then it would generally involve me falling to the ground
        and pounding my fists on the floor while screaming. I know these
        pro's are brats, but how do they do this then end up in the air??

        You wanna learn tricks - then get videos. There are plenty of free
        ones on the net. These you can run in slow motion on your PC and see
        exactly what is happening. Way more instructional than the "picture
        out-of-sequence"

        For the rest of the mag - well I dont want to spend $10 just to read
        ads or lame editorial bullshit. Use the money more wisely and buy a
        McDonald meal - at least you get to enjoy it twice!

        Cheers

        Anthony


        --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "jimhartnett45 <jimhartnett45@y...>"
        <jimhartnett45@y...> wrote:
        > Kiteboarding Magazine and its editor, Ryan Riccitelli, seem to
        > have an attitude problem. The "in your face" attempts to be super
        > cool give kitesurfing a bad name and contribute to negative
        > public perceptions of our sport.
        >
        > Case 1: Ryan seems obsessed by pornography. He feels
        > compelled to ask almost every one of the "youth brigade"
        > interviewees about pornography. eg Q to Garfield King (age 14):
        > [Which do you prefer] "Stuff or Penthouse?" Funny huh? Pretty
        > cool? Does implicit (even attempted humourous) endorsement
        > of pornography to minors cross a legal boundary? Similar
        > questions abound in previous issues. Do questions like this
        > help to make the female readership feel comfortable? Does it
        > help to dispel the macho image of Kitesurfing and attract women
        > kitesurfers?
        >
        > Case 2: A recent issue of Kiteboarding Mag featured a picture of
        > an obese kitesurfer wearing a helmet with a large caption:"Don't
        > Be a Helmet." The juxtaposition was clearly disparaging the man
        > featured in the photograph in particular and the wearing of a
        > helmet in general. All other photos in the magazine showed
        > muscled athletic kitesurfers generally wearing no safety
        > precautions (helmets, leashes, impact vests). It was no
        > coincidence that only one photo displayed an obese, unfit
        > middle-aged man in an unflattering pose wearing a HELMET.
        > "Kiteboarding Mag" tried desperately to backtrack in its Jan 2003
        > edition by describing the poor man featured as a "cool guy that I
        > met in Texas who was learning to kite." Maybe the mag decided
        > to call the poor man "cool" because he was threatening to sue
        > their pants off. The editorial attempts at justification were sad
        > and bordered on the ridiculous. Ryan admits he was equating
        > the word "helmet" with "dick" (as in dickhead) but then tries to
        > say he wasn't making fun of helmets.... Go figure.
        >
        > Case 3: In its attempts to be super cool, KB Mag places little
        > emphasis on safety. Few articles focus specifically on safety.
        > Virtually no riders are shown wearing safety leashes or helmets.
        >
        > Case 4: Ryan slams the kiteboarding "underworld" that exists in
        > internet e-groups and chat rooms. He may have a point when he
        > says "many of these cyber-kite-boarders spend their spare time
        > dissecting and analyzing our sport while the rest of us are on the
        > water progressing....oftentimes the people who answer the qs
        > are not qualified to respond." Yeh, these things may be true. But
        > these e-groups can be helpful (eg the Airush forum- does have a
        > few kooks, but is generally helpful). They also enable issues like
        > the attitude problem of Kiteboarding Mag to be aired without
        > editorial censorship or a ridiculous spin being put on the letters.
        >
        > There is a perception that many kiteboarders have a bad attitude.
        > Contributing to this perception are irresponsible safety practices,
        > injuries to innocent bystanders, countless rider injuries and an
        > escalating death toll. There is a distinct subculture in
        kitesurfing
        > which espouses an "in your face" two-fingered-saluting,
        > trash-talking, board-short over wetsuit and penis obsessed
        > macho dickhead mentality. Kiteboarding Mag is in the vanguard.
        > It is the irresponsible, selfish, in-your-face kitesurfer who is
        > contributing to kitesurfing being banned from beaches around
        > the world.
        >
        > In a larger geopolitical climate, there is a perception in some
        > parts of the world that the Western World is decadent, insensitive
        > to other cultures, and culturally imperialistic. It is the in-your-
        face
        > aggressive macho/porno better-than-you image promoted by
        > organisations like Kiteboarding Mag which may help reinforce
        > this misconception.
        >
        > Having said all of that, I'll still be buying the Mag. There is
        > enough good stuff (eg location and gear reviews, trick
        > sequences) to keep me coming back for more. Nevertheless,
        > let's get real. We kitesurf because we love it; we love the wind,
        > the water, the sensation of surging through the air and water
        > carried on a wind borne wing. I listen to JS Bach and wear a
        > helmet and leash; I try to be careful of and respectful of other
        > water users. I don't need to read pornography, trash talk, 2-finger
        > salute and disparage others to have fun on the water.
        >
        > POSTING NUMBER 2:
        >
        > Let's not let KB Mag or Ryan Riccitelli off the hook. There are
        > problems which should be addressed:
        >
        > 1] Ryan's pornocentric interviews to minors.
        > 2] Ryan's general obsession with pornography eg Continual
        > references to Penthouse
        > 3] Sexism and objectification of women eg Cyber Cindy photos. A
        > posting on www.kiteforum.com indicates women DO feel
        > uncomfortable about KB Mag's soft porn sexism.
        > 4] Please tell me the "Cyber Cindy" photo in the Jan 2003 issue
        > shows a girl over the age of 18. She certainly looks younger; it
        > would be sick and legally dubious if, as I suspect, Ryan has
        > published a picture of a teenager in a suggestive pose for the
        > average 30yo readership to ogle.
        > 5] There is a distinct "better than you" in your face attitude
        > promoted by KB Mag and Ryan. The "Don't be a Helmet" article
        > was clearly disparaging the obese man in the photo and the
        > wearing of helmets in general. Ryan's attempts at justification
        > WERE sad and bordered on the ridiculous. Subsequently
        > describing the poor guy featured as "some cool guy" was a
        > virtual admission of guilt. What makes a guy "cool?" "Coolness"
        > implies trendiness and acceptance by the clique. We don't know
        > anything about the poor man featured other than the fact that he
        > is obese, middle-aged, and DOESN'T fit KB's prevailing image of
        > "cool" because he is wearing a helmet, impact vest, seat
        > harness, and is striking an unflattering pose.
        > 6] There is a brown-nosing side to the Mag which is regrettable.
        > eg The "readers' poll" of favourite kitesurfers which simply
        > seemed like Ryan's attempts to suck up to a certain clique of
        > American riders. Why wasn't Mark Shinn featured? Surely
        > Americans are not so insular as to exclude a rider of Shinn's
        > calibre simply because he is not American? The top 10 thing
        > seemed symptomatic of Ryan's immaturiy and KB's attempts at
        > ingratiation and a reflection of insularity.
        > 7] There is minimal focus on safety. There is a subtle
        > encouragement of unsafe practices in the photos. eg No
        > leashes, no helmets, generally no impact vests.
        > 8] There IS a distinct subculture in Kitesurfing which thrives on
        > trash-talking, arrogant, in-your-face, and antisocial behaviour.
        > This subset is overly represented in injuries to themselves,
        > bystanders, and damage to property. This subset is helping to
        > bring kitesurfing into disrepute and contributing to bans. This
        > drunken redneck trash-talking two-finger saluting attitude is
        > encouraged by KB Mag in its syntax ("Dude" "Cool" "Don't be a
        > helmet" "Penthouse" "Sick"), articles, attitude, and soft-porn
        > focus.
        > 9] In a larger geopolitical context, we as kitesurfers, have a
        > responsibility to our sport and our countries. Aggression,
        > redneck sexism, poking fun at people who don't fit the image (eg
        > obesity) is a bad reflection on Kitesurfing and the Western
        > lifestyle. We probably should try to be sensitive to other people
        > and cultures in this era; KB Mag's aggro macho porno insular
        > attitude encourages misconceptions about the West and
        > encourages immitation in an impressionable immature
        > readership. I get angry with this arrogant
        > in-your-face-better-than-you attitude, and I'm a Westerner who
        > loves kitesurfing. Imagine the effect on a non-kitesurfer from
        > another culture and country.
        > 10] For those who say we should "get a life" and stop
        > complaining, that we should be kitesurfing rather than sitting at
        > our computers... Fair point. But it doesn't blow all the time and
        it
        > is possible to bring attention to issues like KB Mag's attitude
        > which DO impact on our sport.
        >
        > Kiteboarding Mag and Ryan Riccitelli DO have a bad attitude.
        > Some of the articles, gear and location reviews, even the ads,
        > will keep me coming back for more. It is still possible to like the
        > photos, ads, reviews etc, and be repulsed by the editorial
        > shortcomings. I won't be voting with my wallet, I will be continue
        > to buy the Mag, despite the sad editorial line. It is fair to say
        that
        > there is considerable antagonism towards KB Mag because of
        > its editorial line and attitude; it is probably fair to assume that
        a
        > significant number of kitesurfers have vetoed the mag. It may be
        > worthwhile informing the Mag's owners [World Publications] that
        > their bottom line could be improved by a change of editor or
        > editorial attitude. Similarly, it may be worth informing some of
        > the advertisers (Naish, Wipika, Slingshot, North, Liquid Force,
        > Pryde, Cabrinha, Flexifoil, Honda, JoJo, Flysurfer, NSI, Airush)
        > that the redneck in-your-face aggro macho porno attitude
        > espoused in the Mag reflects poorly on their product.
      • cummins_s <cummins_s@yahoo.com>
        Could you please list some good sites to download the educational videos? Thanks. ... have ... latest ... to ... see ... the picture ... read ... a
        Message 3 of 20 , Jan 1, 2003
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          Could you please list some good sites to download the educational
          videos?

          Thanks.

          --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "Anthony <captain1@i...>"
          <captain1@i...> wrote:
          > Jim,
          >
          > I dont even see why you sould want to buy the magazine at all. I
          have
          > eventually found that the magazine is definitly not worth my ten
          > bucks! The gear reviews are really late - I can read about the
          latest
          > kites here and even see them on my beaches (Australia) before
          > Kiteboarding has a review. Even then their reviews seem a little
          > biased.
          >
          > And tricks...... shit with some of the tricks these days a photo
          > sequence is really not worth a lot. First picture he is heelside.
          > Next picture he is in the air backwards. What the F$ck happened in
          > between?? Oh there is a caption lets read it. It has words that I
          > never heard of "tantrum", "KGB", etc...... If I go from heal side
          to
          > a tantrum then it would generally involve me falling to the ground
          > and pounding my fists on the floor while screaming. I know these
          > pro's are brats, but how do they do this then end up in the air??
          >
          > You wanna learn tricks - then get videos. There are plenty of free
          > ones on the net. These you can run in slow motion on your PC and
          see
          > exactly what is happening. Way more instructional than
          the "picture
          > out-of-sequence"
          >
          > For the rest of the mag - well I dont want to spend $10 just to
          read
          > ads or lame editorial bullshit. Use the money more wisely and buy
          a
          > McDonald meal - at least you get to enjoy it twice!
          >
          > Cheers
          >
          > Anthony
          >
        • Greg Walsh <Greg.Walsh@bigpond.com>
          The anti-Kiteboarding Mag post looks like a repost of an earlier message. I don t know if it is worth addressing at length. We ve already ascertained that
          Message 4 of 20 , Jan 1, 2003
          • 0 Attachment
            The anti-Kiteboarding Mag post looks like a repost of an earlier
            message. I don't know if it is worth addressing at length. We've
            already ascertained that quite a few people don't like the magazine.
            There are plenty of much better mags for a bit of an entertaining
            read.

            I have to say that the videos I've bought are pretty similar in style
            to Kiteboarding Mag (PowerZone 1 and 2, Air Sickness, Strung Out).

            I like the Euro style magazines and I would love to see a good Euro
            style video. Better visuals, better music, a bit more soul.

            Regards

            Greg
          • John Penxa <johnpenxa@hotmail.com>
            Jim, Please take you witch hunt else where. Btw: The industry s targeted market is Skateboarders, Wake boarders and Snowboarders. Have you taken a look at a
            Message 5 of 20 , Jan 2, 2003
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              Jim,

              Please take you witch hunt else where.

              Btw: The industry's targeted market is Skateboarders, Wake boarders
              and Snowboarders.

              Have you taken a look at a typical mag from any one of these
              sports??? If you have not, please do, only then will you fully
              understand how ALL of your points are moot!

              Like it or not, KB is effectively marketing to a targeted
              demographic!!!

              Jim, while you appear to be well written, however your points
              couldn't hold LESS merit and or value. In case you were not aware
              Being 'well writen' and making a point that acutely holds merit are
              two entirely different issues.

              Naish said it in 2001. Kitesurfing, is absolutely the wrong sport
              for 99% of the worlds population. Please follow Naish's words of
              wisdom and re-join the community you belong to.

              Thanks!

              jp



              >
              >
              > --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "jimhartnett45
              <jimhartnett45@y...>"
              > <jimhartnett45@y...> wrote:
              > > Kiteboarding Magazine and its editor, Ryan Riccitelli, seem to
              > > have an attitude problem. The "in your face" attempts to be super
              > > cool give kitesurfing a bad name and contribute to negative
              > > public perceptions of our sport.
              > >
              > > Case 1: Ryan seems obsessed by pornography. He feels
              > > compelled to ask almost every one of the "youth brigade"
              > > interviewees about pornography. eg Q to Garfield King (age 14):
              > > [Which do you prefer] "Stuff or Penthouse?" Funny huh? Pretty
              > > cool? Does implicit (even attempted humourous) endorsement
              > > of pornography to minors cross a legal boundary? Similar
              > > questions abound in previous issues. Do questions like this
              > > help to make the female readership feel comfortable? Does it
              > > help to dispel the macho image of Kitesurfing and attract women
              > > kitesurfers?
              > >
              > > Case 2: A recent issue of Kiteboarding Mag featured a picture of
              > > an obese kitesurfer wearing a helmet with a large caption:"Don't
              > > Be a Helmet." The juxtaposition was clearly disparaging the man
              > > featured in the photograph in particular and the wearing of a
              > > helmet in general. All other photos in the magazine showed
              > > muscled athletic kitesurfers generally wearing no safety
              > > precautions (helmets, leashes, impact vests). It was no
              > > coincidence that only one photo displayed an obese, unfit
              > > middle-aged man in an unflattering pose wearing a HELMET.
              > > "Kiteboarding Mag" tried desperately to backtrack in its Jan 2003
              > > edition by describing the poor man featured as a "cool guy that I
              > > met in Texas who was learning to kite." Maybe the mag decided
              > > to call the poor man "cool" because he was threatening to sue
              > > their pants off. The editorial attempts at justification were sad
              > > and bordered on the ridiculous. Ryan admits he was equating
              > > the word "helmet" with "dick" (as in dickhead) but then tries to
              > > say he wasn't making fun of helmets.... Go figure.
              > >
              > > Case 3: In its attempts to be super cool, KB Mag places little
              > > emphasis on safety. Few articles focus specifically on safety.
              > > Virtually no riders are shown wearing safety leashes or helmets.
              > >
              > > Case 4: Ryan slams the kiteboarding "underworld" that exists in
              > > internet e-groups and chat rooms. He may have a point when he
              > > says "many of these cyber-kite-boarders spend their spare time
              > > dissecting and analyzing our sport while the rest of us are on
              the
              > > water progressing....oftentimes the people who answer the qs
              > > are not qualified to respond." Yeh, these things may be true. But
              > > these e-groups can be helpful (eg the Airush forum- does have a
              > > few kooks, but is generally helpful). They also enable issues
              like
              > > the attitude problem of Kiteboarding Mag to be aired without
              > > editorial censorship or a ridiculous spin being put on the
              letters.
              > >
              > > There is a perception that many kiteboarders have a bad attitude.
              > > Contributing to this perception are irresponsible safety
              practices,
              > > injuries to innocent bystanders, countless rider injuries and an
              > > escalating death toll. There is a distinct subculture in
              > kitesurfing
              > > which espouses an "in your face" two-fingered-saluting,
              > > trash-talking, board-short over wetsuit and penis obsessed
              > > macho dickhead mentality. Kiteboarding Mag is in the vanguard.
              > > It is the irresponsible, selfish, in-your-face kitesurfer who is
              > > contributing to kitesurfing being banned from beaches around
              > > the world.
              > >
              > > In a larger geopolitical climate, there is a perception in some
              > > parts of the world that the Western World is decadent,
              insensitive
              > > to other cultures, and culturally imperialistic. It is the
              in-your-
              > face
              > > aggressive macho/porno better-than-you image promoted by
              > > organisations like Kiteboarding Mag which may help reinforce
              > > this misconception.
              > >
              > > Having said all of that, I'll still be buying the Mag. There is
              > > enough good stuff (eg location and gear reviews, trick
              > > sequences) to keep me coming back for more. Nevertheless,
              > > let's get real. We kitesurf because we love it; we love the wind,
              > > the water, the sensation of surging through the air and water
              > > carried on a wind borne wing. I listen to JS Bach and wear a
              > > helmet and leash; I try to be careful of and respectful of other
              > > water users. I don't need to read pornography, trash talk,
              2-finger
              > > salute and disparage others to have fun on the water.
              > >
              > > POSTING NUMBER 2:
              > >
              > > Let's not let KB Mag or Ryan Riccitelli off the hook. There are
              > > problems which should be addressed:
              > >
              > > 1] Ryan's pornocentric interviews to minors.
              > > 2] Ryan's general obsession with pornography eg Continual
              > > references to Penthouse
              > > 3] Sexism and objectification of women eg Cyber Cindy photos. A
              > > posting on www.kiteforum.com indicates women DO feel
              > > uncomfortable about KB Mag's soft porn sexism.
              > > 4] Please tell me the "Cyber Cindy" photo in the Jan 2003 issue
              > > shows a girl over the age of 18. She certainly looks younger; it
              > > would be sick and legally dubious if, as I suspect, Ryan has
              > > published a picture of a teenager in a suggestive pose for the
              > > average 30yo readership to ogle.
              > > 5] There is a distinct "better than you" in your face attitude
              > > promoted by KB Mag and Ryan. The "Don't be a Helmet" article
              > > was clearly disparaging the obese man in the photo and the
              > > wearing of helmets in general. Ryan's attempts at justification
              > > WERE sad and bordered on the ridiculous. Subsequently
              > > describing the poor guy featured as "some cool guy" was a
              > > virtual admission of guilt. What makes a guy "cool?" "Coolness"
              > > implies trendiness and acceptance by the clique. We don't know
              > > anything about the poor man featured other than the fact that he
              > > is obese, middle-aged, and DOESN'T fit KB's prevailing image of
              > > "cool" because he is wearing a helmet, impact vest, seat
              > > harness, and is striking an unflattering pose.
              > > 6] There is a brown-nosing side to the Mag which is regrettable.
              > > eg The "readers' poll" of favourite kitesurfers which simply
              > > seemed like Ryan's attempts to suck up to a certain clique of
              > > American riders. Why wasn't Mark Shinn featured? Surely
              > > Americans are not so insular as to exclude a rider of Shinn's
              > > calibre simply because he is not American? The top 10 thing
              > > seemed symptomatic of Ryan's immaturiy and KB's attempts at
              > > ingratiation and a reflection of insularity.
              > > 7] There is minimal focus on safety. There is a subtle
              > > encouragement of unsafe practices in the photos. eg No
              > > leashes, no helmets, generally no impact vests.
              > > 8] There IS a distinct subculture in Kitesurfing which thrives on
              > > trash-talking, arrogant, in-your-face, and antisocial behaviour.
              > > This subset is overly represented in injuries to themselves,
              > > bystanders, and damage to property. This subset is helping to
              > > bring kitesurfing into disrepute and contributing to bans. This
              > > drunken redneck trash-talking two-finger saluting attitude is
              > > encouraged by KB Mag in its syntax ("Dude" "Cool" "Don't be a
              > > helmet" "Penthouse" "Sick"), articles, attitude, and soft-porn
              > > focus.
              > > 9] In a larger geopolitical context, we as kitesurfers, have a
              > > responsibility to our sport and our countries. Aggression,
              > > redneck sexism, poking fun at people who don't fit the image (eg
              > > obesity) is a bad reflection on Kitesurfing and the Western
              > > lifestyle. We probably should try to be sensitive to other people
              > > and cultures in this era; KB Mag's aggro macho porno insular
              > > attitude encourages misconceptions about the West and
              > > encourages immitation in an impressionable immature
              > > readership. I get angry with this arrogant
              > > in-your-face-better-than-you attitude, and I'm a Westerner who
              > > loves kitesurfing. Imagine the effect on a non-kitesurfer from
              > > another culture and country.
              > > 10] For those who say we should "get a life" and stop
              > > complaining, that we should be kitesurfing rather than sitting at
              > > our computers... Fair point. But it doesn't blow all the time and
              > it
              > > is possible to bring attention to issues like KB Mag's attitude
              > > which DO impact on our sport.
              > >
              > > Kiteboarding Mag and Ryan Riccitelli DO have a bad attitude.
              > > Some of the articles, gear and location reviews, even the ads,
              > > will keep me coming back for more. It is still possible to like
              the
              > > photos, ads, reviews etc, and be repulsed by the editorial
              > > shortcomings. I won't be voting with my wallet, I will be
              continue
              > > to buy the Mag, despite the sad editorial line. It is fair to say
              > that
              > > there is considerable antagonism towards KB Mag because of
              > > its editorial line and attitude; it is probably fair to assume
              that
              > a
              > > significant number of kitesurfers have vetoed the mag. It may be
              > > worthwhile informing the Mag's owners [World Publications] that
              > > their bottom line could be improved by a change of editor or
              > > editorial attitude. Similarly, it may be worth informing some of
              > > the advertisers (Naish, Wipika, Slingshot, North, Liquid Force,
              > > Pryde, Cabrinha, Flexifoil, Honda, JoJo, Flysurfer, NSI, Airush)
              > > that the redneck in-your-face aggro macho porno attitude
              > > espoused in the Mag reflects poorly on their product.
            • music642000 <srl@ihug.com.au>
              John, they might be targetiing a certain demographic but that doesn t mean they are targeting the right one. From what I ve seen at the local sites here there
              Message 6 of 20 , Jan 2, 2003
              • 0 Attachment
                John,
                they might be targetiing a certain demographic but that doesn't mean
                they are targeting the right one. From what I've seen at the local
                sites here there are more women and older guys kitesurfing than
                skateboarders and young 'dudes'. Maybe they need to do a bit more
                market research as the demographic for the average kitesurfer is
                changing as it becomes more popular. If it's the wrong sport for 99%
                of the population then Naish wouldn't be making much money and the
                sport wouldn't be as popular as it is becoming.
                Scott

                --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "John Penxa <johnpenxa@h...>"
                <johnpenxa@h...> wrote:
                > Jim,
                >
                > Please take you witch hunt else where.
                >
                > Btw: The industry's targeted market is Skateboarders, Wake
                boarders
                > and Snowboarders.
                >
                > Have you taken a look at a typical mag from any one of these
                > sports??? If you have not, please do, only then will you fully
                > understand how ALL of your points are moot!
                >
                > Like it or not, KB is effectively marketing to a targeted
                > demographic!!!
                >
                > Jim, while you appear to be well written, however your points
                > couldn't hold LESS merit and or value. In case you were not aware
                > Being 'well writen' and making a point that acutely holds merit
                are
                > two entirely different issues.
                >
                > Naish said it in 2001. Kitesurfing, is absolutely the wrong sport
                > for 99% of the worlds population. Please follow Naish's words of
                > wisdom and re-join the community you belong to.
                >
                > Thanks!
                >
                > jp
                >
                >
                >
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "jimhartnett45
                > <jimhartnett45@y...>"
                > > <jimhartnett45@y...> wrote:
                > > > Kiteboarding Magazine and its editor, Ryan Riccitelli, seem to
                > > > have an attitude problem. The "in your face" attempts to be
                super
                > > > cool give kitesurfing a bad name and contribute to negative
                > > > public perceptions of our sport.
                > > >
                > > > Case 1: Ryan seems obsessed by pornography. He feels
                > > > compelled to ask almost every one of the "youth brigade"
                > > > interviewees about pornography. eg Q to Garfield King (age 14):
                > > > [Which do you prefer] "Stuff or Penthouse?" Funny huh? Pretty
                > > > cool? Does implicit (even attempted humourous) endorsement
                > > > of pornography to minors cross a legal boundary? Similar
                > > > questions abound in previous issues. Do questions like this
                > > > help to make the female readership feel comfortable? Does it
                > > > help to dispel the macho image of Kitesurfing and attract women
                > > > kitesurfers?
                > > >
                > > > Case 2: A recent issue of Kiteboarding Mag featured a picture
                of
                > > > an obese kitesurfer wearing a helmet with a large
                caption:"Don't
                > > > Be a Helmet." The juxtaposition was clearly disparaging the man
                > > > featured in the photograph in particular and the wearing of a
                > > > helmet in general. All other photos in the magazine showed
                > > > muscled athletic kitesurfers generally wearing no safety
                > > > precautions (helmets, leashes, impact vests). It was no
                > > > coincidence that only one photo displayed an obese, unfit
                > > > middle-aged man in an unflattering pose wearing a HELMET.
                > > > "Kiteboarding Mag" tried desperately to backtrack in its Jan
                2003
                > > > edition by describing the poor man featured as a "cool guy that
                I
                > > > met in Texas who was learning to kite." Maybe the mag decided
                > > > to call the poor man "cool" because he was threatening to sue
                > > > their pants off. The editorial attempts at justification were
                sad
                > > > and bordered on the ridiculous. Ryan admits he was equating
                > > > the word "helmet" with "dick" (as in dickhead) but then tries
                to
                > > > say he wasn't making fun of helmets.... Go figure.
                > > >
                > > > Case 3: In its attempts to be super cool, KB Mag places little
                > > > emphasis on safety. Few articles focus specifically on safety.
                > > > Virtually no riders are shown wearing safety leashes or
                helmets.
                > > >
                > > > Case 4: Ryan slams the kiteboarding "underworld" that exists in
                > > > internet e-groups and chat rooms. He may have a point when he
                > > > says "many of these cyber-kite-boarders spend their spare time
                > > > dissecting and analyzing our sport while the rest of us are on
                > the
                > > > water progressing....oftentimes the people who answer the qs
                > > > are not qualified to respond." Yeh, these things may be true.
                But
                > > > these e-groups can be helpful (eg the Airush forum- does have a
                > > > few kooks, but is generally helpful). They also enable issues
                > like
                > > > the attitude problem of Kiteboarding Mag to be aired without
                > > > editorial censorship or a ridiculous spin being put on the
                > letters.
                > > >
                > > > There is a perception that many kiteboarders have a bad
                attitude.
                > > > Contributing to this perception are irresponsible safety
                > practices,
                > > > injuries to innocent bystanders, countless rider injuries and
                an
                > > > escalating death toll. There is a distinct subculture in
                > > kitesurfing
                > > > which espouses an "in your face" two-fingered-saluting,
                > > > trash-talking, board-short over wetsuit and penis obsessed
                > > > macho dickhead mentality. Kiteboarding Mag is in the vanguard.
                > > > It is the irresponsible, selfish, in-your-face kitesurfer who
                is
                > > > contributing to kitesurfing being banned from beaches around
                > > > the world.
                > > >
                > > > In a larger geopolitical climate, there is a perception in some
                > > > parts of the world that the Western World is decadent,
                > insensitive
                > > > to other cultures, and culturally imperialistic. It is the
                > in-your-
                > > face
                > > > aggressive macho/porno better-than-you image promoted by
                > > > organisations like Kiteboarding Mag which may help reinforce
                > > > this misconception.
                > > >
                > > > Having said all of that, I'll still be buying the Mag. There is
                > > > enough good stuff (eg location and gear reviews, trick
                > > > sequences) to keep me coming back for more. Nevertheless,
                > > > let's get real. We kitesurf because we love it; we love the
                wind,
                > > > the water, the sensation of surging through the air and water
                > > > carried on a wind borne wing. I listen to JS Bach and wear a
                > > > helmet and leash; I try to be careful of and respectful of
                other
                > > > water users. I don't need to read pornography, trash talk,
                > 2-finger
                > > > salute and disparage others to have fun on the water.
                > > >
                > > > POSTING NUMBER 2:
                > > >
                > > > Let's not let KB Mag or Ryan Riccitelli off the hook. There are
                > > > problems which should be addressed:
                > > >
                > > > 1] Ryan's pornocentric interviews to minors.
                > > > 2] Ryan's general obsession with pornography eg Continual
                > > > references to Penthouse
                > > > 3] Sexism and objectification of women eg Cyber Cindy photos. A
                > > > posting on www.kiteforum.com indicates women DO feel
                > > > uncomfortable about KB Mag's soft porn sexism.
                > > > 4] Please tell me the "Cyber Cindy" photo in the Jan 2003 issue
                > > > shows a girl over the age of 18. She certainly looks younger;
                it
                > > > would be sick and legally dubious if, as I suspect, Ryan has
                > > > published a picture of a teenager in a suggestive pose for the
                > > > average 30yo readership to ogle.
                > > > 5] There is a distinct "better than you" in your face attitude
                > > > promoted by KB Mag and Ryan. The "Don't be a Helmet" article
                > > > was clearly disparaging the obese man in the photo and the
                > > > wearing of helmets in general. Ryan's attempts at justification
                > > > WERE sad and bordered on the ridiculous. Subsequently
                > > > describing the poor guy featured as "some cool guy" was a
                > > > virtual admission of guilt. What makes a guy "cool?" "Coolness"
                > > > implies trendiness and acceptance by the clique. We don't know
                > > > anything about the poor man featured other than the fact that
                he
                > > > is obese, middle-aged, and DOESN'T fit KB's prevailing image of
                > > > "cool" because he is wearing a helmet, impact vest, seat
                > > > harness, and is striking an unflattering pose.
                > > > 6] There is a brown-nosing side to the Mag which is
                regrettable.
                > > > eg The "readers' poll" of favourite kitesurfers which simply
                > > > seemed like Ryan's attempts to suck up to a certain clique of
                > > > American riders. Why wasn't Mark Shinn featured? Surely
                > > > Americans are not so insular as to exclude a rider of Shinn's
                > > > calibre simply because he is not American? The top 10 thing
                > > > seemed symptomatic of Ryan's immaturiy and KB's attempts at
                > > > ingratiation and a reflection of insularity.
                > > > 7] There is minimal focus on safety. There is a subtle
                > > > encouragement of unsafe practices in the photos. eg No
                > > > leashes, no helmets, generally no impact vests.
                > > > 8] There IS a distinct subculture in Kitesurfing which thrives
                on
                > > > trash-talking, arrogant, in-your-face, and antisocial
                behaviour.
                > > > This subset is overly represented in injuries to themselves,
                > > > bystanders, and damage to property. This subset is helping to
                > > > bring kitesurfing into disrepute and contributing to bans. This
                > > > drunken redneck trash-talking two-finger saluting attitude is
                > > > encouraged by KB Mag in its syntax ("Dude" "Cool" "Don't be a
                > > > helmet" "Penthouse" "Sick"), articles, attitude, and soft-porn
                > > > focus.
                > > > 9] In a larger geopolitical context, we as kitesurfers, have a
                > > > responsibility to our sport and our countries. Aggression,
                > > > redneck sexism, poking fun at people who don't fit the image
                (eg
                > > > obesity) is a bad reflection on Kitesurfing and the Western
                > > > lifestyle. We probably should try to be sensitive to other
                people
                > > > and cultures in this era; KB Mag's aggro macho porno insular
                > > > attitude encourages misconceptions about the West and
                > > > encourages immitation in an impressionable immature
                > > > readership. I get angry with this arrogant
                > > > in-your-face-better-than-you attitude, and I'm a Westerner who
                > > > loves kitesurfing. Imagine the effect on a non-kitesurfer from
                > > > another culture and country.
                > > > 10] For those who say we should "get a life" and stop
                > > > complaining, that we should be kitesurfing rather than sitting
                at
                > > > our computers... Fair point. But it doesn't blow all the time
                and
                > > it
                > > > is possible to bring attention to issues like KB Mag's attitude
                > > > which DO impact on our sport.
                > > >
                > > > Kiteboarding Mag and Ryan Riccitelli DO have a bad attitude.
                > > > Some of the articles, gear and location reviews, even the ads,
                > > > will keep me coming back for more. It is still possible to like
                > the
                > > > photos, ads, reviews etc, and be repulsed by the editorial
                > > > shortcomings. I won't be voting with my wallet, I will be
                > continue
                > > > to buy the Mag, despite the sad editorial line. It is fair to
                say
                > > that
                > > > there is considerable antagonism towards KB Mag because of
                > > > its editorial line and attitude; it is probably fair to assume
                > that
                > > a
                > > > significant number of kitesurfers have vetoed the mag. It may
                be
                > > > worthwhile informing the Mag's owners [World Publications] that
                > > > their bottom line could be improved by a change of editor or
                > > > editorial attitude. Similarly, it may be worth informing some
                of
                > > > the advertisers (Naish, Wipika, Slingshot, North, Liquid Force,
                > > > Pryde, Cabrinha, Flexifoil, Honda, JoJo, Flysurfer, NSI,
                Airush)
                > > > that the redneck in-your-face aggro macho porno attitude
                > > > espoused in the Mag reflects poorly on their product.
              • John Penxa <johnpenxa@hotmail.com>
                Scott, That s a REALLY good point and question to pose to the marketing and advertising folks at Naish! :-) cheers jp
                Message 7 of 20 , Jan 2, 2003
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                  Scott,

                  That's a REALLY good point and question to pose to the marketing and
                  advertising folks at Naish! :-)

                  cheers

                  jp



                  > If it's the wrong sport for 99%
                  > of the population then Naish wouldn't be making much money and the
                  > sport wouldn't be as popular as it is becoming.
                  > Scott
                • theflyingtinman <thorpes@arklogic.com>
                  ... Huh? ... the world has a population of around 6.3 billion ... I think Naish s marketing and advertising folks should be capable of grabbing a big enough
                  Message 8 of 20 , Jan 3, 2003
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                    --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "John Penxa <johnpenxa@h...>" <johnpenxa@h...> wrote:
                    > Scott,
                    >
                    > That's a REALLY good point and question to pose to the marketing and
                    > advertising folks at Naish! :-)
                    >
                    > cheers
                    >
                    > jp
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > > If it's the wrong sport for 99%
                    > > of the population then Naish wouldn't be making much money and the
                    > > sport wouldn't be as popular as it is becoming.
                    > > Scott

                    Huh? ... the world has a population of around 6.3 billion ... I think
                    Naish's marketing and advertising folks should be capable of grabbing
                    a big enough enough market share out of the 63 millon people they
                    didn't exclude ;-)

                    Steve T.
                  • dontbuyarcs <imintheusagain@hotmail.com>
                    Hi Guys, Heres another 2 cents. when was the last time you looked in any magazine and saw your average joe somebody in his budgie smugglers smiling at the
                    Message 9 of 20 , Jan 3, 2003
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                      Hi Guys,
                      Heres another 2 cents.
                      when was the last time you looked in any magazine and saw your
                      average joe somebody in his budgie smugglers smiling at the camera.
                      When did you last see an average looking individual on the cover of
                      cosmopolitan magazine.

                      Unfortunately aesthetics as it is commonly known as is the heart and
                      soul of the advertising world. Magazines only became seperate from
                      newspapers in the early days because of advertising restrictions.

                      It really pisses me off to hear males batting for women on the
                      sexism issue. I am not saying it should be done but I think there is
                      a fair bit of eye candy for women at any good kiteboarding location.
                      So why not in a kiteboarding magazine. Oh yeah did I mention sex
                      sells?

                      Ok So i'll try and sum up what you want:
                      1: A magazine that agrees with your opinions on the equipment
                      reviews of all thier products.
                      2: A magazine with no witty slogans
                      3: An uninthusiastic editor
                      4: A magazine filled with pictures of middle aged men and women
                      landing thier first backloops.

                      And what the fuck is wrong with wearing board shorts over your
                      wetsuit. Sounds to me like you are subscribing to the same morals as
                      you quite obviously detest. In my opinion you can kiteboard in
                      whatever you want as long as you are safe.

                      Now you have got me all pissed off and have clouded the issue with
                      bullshit. The real issue is not sexism or pants over your wetsuit or
                      helmet man its safety. Ignoring safety will get you killed sexism at
                      worst will get you a good slap in the face. I am disgusted to see
                      that at the beginning of ever kiteboarding magazine on the first
                      page these words do ot appear.

                      ATTENTION ALL KITEBOARDERS AND PROSPECTIVES.
                      KITEBOARDING IS EXTREMELY DANGEROUS AND SHOULD ONLY BE UNDERTAKEN IN
                      LOCATIONS WHERE IT IS LEGAL TO KITEBOARD, BY INDIVIDUALS WITH THE
                      CORRECT KNOWLEDGE AND ABILITY. ALL KITEBOARDERS FEATURED IN THIS
                      MAGAZINE ARE PROFESSIONALS AND HAVE ONLY GOT THIS WAY THROUGH
                      LEARNING IN THE PROPER MANNER. IF YOU ARE KITEBOARDING AMONGST OTHER
                      KITEBOARDERS YOU MUST WEAR A KITE LEASH. FAILURE TO WEAR A LEASH CAN
                      LEAD TO DEATH. FAILURE TO ANALYSE A KITEBOARDING LOCATION CORRECTLY
                      CAN LEAD TO DEATH. FAILURE TO CONSTANTLY ANALYSE CHANGING WEATHER
                      PATTERNS CAN LEAD TO DEATH. FAILURE TO WEAR ADEQUATE FLOTATION AND
                      IMPACT PROTECTION DEVICE CAN LEAD TO DEATH. IF YOU VALUE YOUR LIFE
                      CONSULT A PROFESSIONAL FOR ADVICE ON LESSONS AND TRAINING BEFORE
                      ATTEMPTING THIS SPORT. YOU MAY ALSO WANT TO INVESTIGATE WHAT
                      INSURANCE IS AVAILABLE IN YOUR AREA TO GUARD AGAINST THIRD PARTY
                      PERSONAL AND PROPERTY DAMAGE LIABILITY. THE ONLY THING WORSE THAN
                      INJURING OR KILLING YOURSELF IS INJURING OR KILLING SOMEONE ELSE. IF
                      YOU SEE ANOTHER KITEBOARDER DOING SOMETHING YOU DEEM DANGEROUS GO
                      AND OFFER ASSISTANCE. PREVENTION IS BETTER THAN CURE.

                      Now all that jibbering and I hope I got the message through and all
                      you people see the real picture. We can not stop everyone from
                      buying a kite, not getting a lesson and going out and doing the
                      kiteboarding world and themselves an injustice by having an
                      accident. Next time you have something pertinent to add to the forum
                      don't cloud it with sexist, opinionated propaganda. Who knows I
                      might just agree with you.

                      DRO.
                    • kiteboard2000 <kiteboarder@pacbell.net>
                      ... IF ... Well put. So how do the other supposedly superior magazines rate on the safety issues? Mel
                      Message 10 of 20 , Jan 6, 2003
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                        --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "dontbuyarcs <imintheusagain@h...>"
                        <imintheusagain@h...> wrote:

                        > The real issue is not sexism or pants over your wetsuit or
                        > helmet man its safety...
                        > THE ONLY THING WORSE THAN
                        > INJURING OR KILLING YOURSELF IS INJURING OR KILLING SOMEONE ELSE.
                        IF
                        > YOU SEE ANOTHER KITEBOARDER DOING SOMETHING YOU DEEM DANGEROUS GO
                        > AND OFFER ASSISTANCE. PREVENTION IS BETTER THAN CURE.

                        Well put. So how do the other supposedly superior magazines rate on
                        the safety issues?

                        Mel
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