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[ksurf] Re: Wave riding guidelines discussion

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  • kiteboardingjapan
    I find the longest jumps of waves come when I keep the kite fairly high and ralley of the wave as I would on flat water. When you do a ralley the kite
    Message 1 of 21 , Sep 1, 2002
      I find the longest jumps of waves come when I keep the kite fairly
      high and ralley of the wave as I would on flat water. When you do a
      ralley the kite naturally moves up so the force of you ralley gives
      you height, and then the kite just raises to neutral and glides. No
      kite movement required until you land. You can go really big but
      safely, and land really soft.

      Nick

      --- In kitesurf@y..., "mrjomacdonald" <mrjomacdonald@v...> wrote:
      > Thanks Randy,
      > Are you sure about that though, can you get higher than your kite
      if
      > it's high towards zenith and going up, pulling you with it?
      > What sort of kite angle do you think is ideal for wave
      > jumping/riding, the position where you should keep the kite as you
      > said?
      > Jo
      >
      > --- In kitesurf@y..., r a n d y K A T O <randy@k...> wrote:
      > > Also, when using the wave face as a sort of ramp for jumping,
      > remember
      > > that you really don't need to do anything with the kite, just
      keep
      > it
      > > where it is and you'll be airborne as the water falls away from
      > you. if
      > > you do want to steer the kite for more air/hangtime, remember not
      > to
      > > oversteer! you're not on flat water. if you steer it back the
      same
      > as
      > > with flat water jumping you could wind up higher than your kite -
      > the
      > > wave face shoots you upward - then you're in real trouble.
      > >
      > >
      > > "Reason holds the helm, but passions are the gales." - J. Adams
    • Decay
      Most good riders here use a longer board/smaller kite in waves than what they would in the same wind on flat water - this allows them to ride the shoulder
      Message 2 of 21 , Sep 1, 2002
        Most good riders here use a longer board/smaller kite in waves than what
        they would in the same wind on flat water - this allows them to ride the
        shoulder without getting overpower and dragged onto the flats.

        I quite like 20m lines in surf, it makes for quicker direction changes.

        Decay

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: kiteboardingjapan <nick@...>
        To: <kitesurf@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2002 11:33 PM
        Subject: [ksurf] Re: Wave riding guidelines discussion


        > Good list.
        >
        > I'd add, if your going out in bigger stuff (head high or more), make
        > sure you are nicely powered up. Best to be slightly overpowered than
        > under. There's nothing worse (or more dangerous) than loosing power
        > just when you need it most. Also, (and I'd like someone here to
        > explain why) the wind in front of a wave is much stronger. So when
        > you are regularly powered, and drop down into a wave, you'll find
        > you'll have a lot more power. This means that if you're maxed out
        > going into a wave, you'll be overpowered when you drop into it.
        >
        > Nick
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In kitesurf@y..., "mrjomacdonald" <mrjomacdonald@v...> wrote:
        > > Wave riding guidelines discussion
        > >
        > > I would like to get some kite wave riding guidelines together for
        > > kiters who want to start playing in the waves.
        > > These are my thought and ideas on the basis of my wave riding +
        > > windsurfing experience. As I don't have any direct experience of
        > > kitesurfing in serious waves, feedback, suggestions, additions,
        > > criticism and words of wisdom from experienced kite flying wave
        > > riders is essential, so people with such experience please say your
        > > piece.
        > >
        > > These are my ideas:
        > >
        > > 1. Know your limits. Don't try it in anything bigger than
        > waist
        > > height until you're hot in easier (flat, choppy, hip high waves)
        > > conditions and can fly a kite in your sleep, big waves can hit with
        > a
        > > force of more than 3 tons per square foot when they break.
        > > 2. Before you go out, sit on the beach and watch the waves for
        > a
        > > while, especially if you're at a spot you don't know. Remember that
        > > from the beach the waves will look smaller than they actually are
        > > when you're out there.
        > > 3. Before going in ask locals for advice, a beach break is a
        > lot
        > > friendlier than a shallow reef break. A wave will break in water
        > > roughly 1.3 times the height of the wave face, so this can give you
        > > an idea of how deep the water is. Some reef breaks can actually
        > suck
        > > most of the water away from the wave's path and this can be
        > unnerving
        > > when you're on the wave because it will hurt if you fall. Many
        > great
        > > spots have sharp rocky shores, it's your life and your equipment.
        > > 4. Avoid spots/days with waves that closeout (the whole bar
        > > crashes down simultaneously) especially big closeouts, they are
        > nasty.
        > > 5. Check your equipment, which should be perfect, and warm up
        > > before you go in.
        > > 6. Always try to keep your kite flying and if it does go down
        > > relaunch as quick as you can. Be good at it in flat water before
        > you
        > > try it in waves.
        > > 7. Sideshore, side onshore and side offshore are best for wave
        > > riding, jumping and if there's nothing else, in that order.
        > Straight
        > > onshore is much harder to go out in because the wind and waves will
        > > push you back towards the beach all the time, there will probably
        > be
        > > a strong current in the same direction and you will have to kite
        > > upwind right away so only try it if you're powered up.
        > > 8. Unless there's onshore wind, waves usually come in sets of
        > 3-
        > > 5 or more, (in onshore wind it will probably just be a mess), if
        > it's
        > > your first time in serious waves or you're going to try anything
        > > flash, wait for the last wave of the set to do your thing. This way
        > > if you goof it you should (hopefully) have enough time to get your
        > > act together before the next set hits you. If you fall on the first
        > > wave of a set you'll get pounded by the rest of the set and be
        > wiser
        > > for it. You can jump the waves as you go out and surf them as you
        > > come in.
        > > 9. Don't panic in a wipeout, try to be aware of where your
        > > equipment is, a last look before you go down is good if you get the
        > > chance. When you do fall, try to fall over/through the wave and not
        > > down its face.
        > > 10. Waves further out to sea are a lot calmer than near the
        > > beach. When starting out from the beach, watch the waves, wait for
        > > the calm after a set has finished breaking, then go out quick, if
        > > possible straight out (side shore wind is easiest). Get through the
        > > shore break then stay out in the real waves, they're bigger too.
        > > After the shore break (going out) is the impact zone where the
        > bigger
        > > waves break and you don't want to hang around here too long either.
        > > Don't get into the shore break again until it's time to come in,
        > > which is before you get tired and start making mistakes. Riding a
        > > wave in is a good way to get back to the beach.
        > >
        > > 11. If a wave is too big for you, run (kite) away from it, he
        > who
        > > turns and kites away rides to surf another wave.
        > > 12. Keep an eye on big waves coming in when you're playing in
        > > their garden. Every once in a while a freak wave can come in which
        > is
        > > a lot bigger than the rest and it will probably break earlier too.
        > A
        > > wave doesn't have to be really big to hit hard, the thickness and
        > > speed of a wave, as well as the way/how fast it jacks up when it
        > hits
        > > the shallows can turn a smooth ocean roller into a spitting,
        > awesome
        > > tube.
        > > 13. If you don't have any experience with waves, (maybe you
        > kite
        > > on a lake) try surfing them with a surfboard or bodyboard first,
        > this
        > > will give you an idea of how powerful they are and how a board can
        > > react in waves.
        > > 14. Respect surfers, they are a lot less manoeuvrable than you
        > > and have been surfing waves for a lot longer too (in Hawaii since
        > the
        > > 15th century).
        > > 15. Some riders wear floatation vests, others don't. A floaty
        > pfd
        > > will mean a wave can get a better hold of you and a wipeout can
        > last
        > > longer, but if you do get knocked unconscious it can save your
        > life.
        > > Try going out in the waves without your kite and try both ways then
        > > decide, it's your life.
        > > 16. If you use a board leash, use a helmet too.
        > >
        > >
        > > The above is all pretty standard windsurfing/surfing wave riding
        > > stuff and what I've learnt at my expense.
        > > The following points are the more specific kite flying/wave riding
        > > points I'm not too sure about and probably what need changing most,
        > > because they're just theory.
        > >
        > >
        > > 17. Avoid sushi rolls at all costs, this is when you fall into
        > a
        > > wave down its face with your lines slack/kite down and the wave
        > rolls
        > > you in your lines, if the kite powers up or gets dragged down by
        > the
        > > waves it will not be funny at all. If you're kite is down avoid
        > > getting tangled in your lines at all costs. If you do get tangled
        > in
        > > your lines and things look like they could get nasty, or already
        > are,
        > > cut your lines as fast as you can. Carry a hook knife.
        > > 18. Avoid flying your kite seawards straight in front of you
        > > (wave wise) this would mean offshore wind anyway (ideal surfing
        > > conditions) so you shouldn't be doing it in the first place,
        > because
        > > if you and the kite fall and the kite gets submerged by the waves,
        > it
        > > will be pushed towards you and you will be in the midst of your
        > > lines. If you are worried about getting caught in your lines, swim
        > > towards/into the waves and crosswise away from where the waves are
        > > dragging your lines which will be towards the beach. Dive under a
        > > wave so it doesn't sweep you away.
        > > 19. Use floating lines and bar. Unless they are actually being
        > > swirled in a wave, to avoid the lines you can dive under them if
        > all
        > > else fails, just be careful not to surface in their midst.
        > > 20. To get past a wave that's coming for you when you're on
        > your
        > > board, you can jump over it (using your legs to lift your board
        > over
        > > the wave as you hit it if you don't want to rocket skywards on
        > every
        > > wave you hit), dive the kite down a bit to build up speed and ride
        > > straight through with the nose of your board it if the wave's not
        > too
        > > big, or if you don't like the look of it, change course and ride
        > past
        > > it or over a section that hasn't broken yet (remember that it might
        > > start breaking by the time you get there) or through the part
        > that's
        > > already broken. White water and bubbling foam will play havoc with
        > > the way your board rides so watch it. If you hit the wave with the
        > > edge of the board the wave will grab it a lot more than if you hit
        > > with the nose. Use your kite to lift you/jump out of rough
        > situations.
        > > 21. You can jump a lot higher in waves than in flat water, so
        > > watch your landings. When in the air look to see when and where
        > > you'll be landing. Landing a high jump with your board flat is the
        > > easiest way to break your board or ankles. Use the kite to slow
        > your
        > > descent, try to land on the back of the board and use your legs as
        > > shock absorbers. Be careful if jumping near the shore because the
        > > backwash of a wave, especially a big one can drag a lot of water
        > off
        > > the beach and any left behind may be a lot shallower than you
        > think.
        > > If you're too close to the beach when landing a jump, kick your
        > board
        > > off and land on your feet.
        > > 22. A low AR kite is a lot easier and faster to relaunch in
        > waves
        > > than a high AR kite.
        > > 23. On light wind days you can use a floaty directional to surf
        > > waves even when you're underpowered.
        > >
        > >
        > > Remember, waves are beautiful graceful creatures but they're not
        > your
        > > friends and have no qualms about trashing you and/or your gear.
        > > Respect them always, they are a lot stronger than you will ever be.
        > >
        > > Hang loose
        > > Jo
        >
        >
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      • r a n d y K A T O
        well, that s the most extreme scenario - you higher than the kite, but it is possible (i ve seen it). when jumping on flat water by steering the kite up and
        Message 3 of 21 , Sep 1, 2002
          well, that's the most extreme scenario - you higher than the kite, but
          it is possible (i've seen it). when jumping on flat water by steering
          the kite up and back past zenith it's easy enough to wait too long to
          steer the kite back forward and wind up with the pendulum effect. when
          you do this in the waves, especially if you're taking off from the face
          of a wave that can shoot you up vertically, the combination can put you
          and your kite at pretty similar heights which can have some scary
          consequences.

          if you're used to jumping off flat water, you get a feel for where the
          kite is by how the lines are pulling, but if you're leaned back as you
          ride up a wave face, what feels like 12 o'clock may actually be 11 or
          even 10 (on a starboard tack). so if you normally start to steer the
          kite back forward once it reaches 11 o'clock, your kite may actually be
          approaching 9 o'clock by the time you react - 9 o'clock means you and
          the kite are at the same height.

          it's hard to explain without visual aids, but i hope this makes sense.
          i guess the main thing is that for the most part you want the kite in
          the same positions as with flat water riding/jumping (which can be just
          about anywhere depending on what you're trying to achieve), but be
          aware that in the waves YOU are also being raised, lowered, and pushed
          by the water so that will influence your position in relation to the
          kite and vice versa.

          On Sunday, Sep 1, 2002, at 14:45 US/Eastern, mrjomacdonald wrote:

          > Thanks Randy,
          > Are you sure about that though, can you get higher than your kite if
          > it's high towards zenith and going up, pulling you with it?
          > What sort of kite angle do you think is ideal for wave
          > jumping/riding, the position where you should keep the kite as you
          > said?
          > Jo
        • Stefano Rosso
          ALWAYS point the kite into the waves... otherwise you wil ldrop your kite... 1 good wave can luff your kite in seconds as you tumble with it !
          Message 4 of 21 , Sep 2, 2002
            ALWAYS point the kite into the waves... otherwise you wil ldrop your kite... 1
            good wave can luff your kite in seconds as you tumble with it !

            > I've only doen a small amout of ktitng in real waves..we mostly get
            > onshore slop up here..but in my few experiences it seemed to me that in
            > strong winds and serious waves if you are down and are about to get
            > worked hard by alot white water pointing your kite offshore wasn't
            > nessarily the best thing to do... It seemed doing that would load up the
            > lines really hard (maybe breaking things) and then i would shoot out the
            > other side when released..all a bit out of control. If I pointed the
            > kite toward the beach I would drag with the wave and forces would be
            > much lower and I would get to the inside so as not to be a sitting duck
            > for the next wave. Obviously if the wind is light and you worried about
            > the kite falling out of the sky keep it offshore..what do you guys who
            > have more experiience riding waves think???
          • gorgekiteboarder
            No question about it, Stefano is correct. NEVER point your kite towards the shore if you re going to get worked by a wave. It could easily fall out of the
            Message 5 of 21 , Sep 2, 2002
              No question about it, Stefano is correct. NEVER point your kite
              towards the shore if you're going to get worked by a wave. It could
              easily fall out of the sky, and you could end up getting "hog tied"
              in your lines as the surf tumbles you arround - very bad situation!
              You should develop an instinct to immediately send your kite out to
              sea whenever you crash in the surf.

              Spencer

              --- In kitesurf@y..., Stefano Rosso <stefano@o...> wrote:
              > ALWAYS point the kite into the waves... otherwise you wil ldrop
              your kite... 1
              > good wave can luff your kite in seconds as you tumble with it !
              >
              > > I've only doen a small amout of ktitng in real waves..we mostly
              get
              > > onshore slop up here..but in my few experiences it seemed to me
              that in
              > > strong winds and serious waves if you are down and are about to
              get
              > > worked hard by alot white water pointing your kite offshore
              wasn't
              > > nessarily the best thing to do... It seemed doing that would
              load up the
              > > lines really hard (maybe breaking things) and then i would shoot
              out the
              > > other side when released..all a bit out of control. If I
              pointed the
              > > kite toward the beach I would drag with the wave and forces
              would be
              > > much lower and I would get to the inside so as not to be a
              sitting duck
              > > for the next wave. Obviously if the wind is light and you
              worried about
              > > the kite falling out of the sky keep it offshore..what do you
              guys who
              > > have more experiience riding waves think???
            • mrjomacdonald
              Thanks for the input Stefano, So you mean if you ve fallen but are still flying the kite, while you re waiting to start off again, keep the kite seawards (wave
              Message 6 of 21 , Sep 2, 2002
                Thanks for the input Stefano,
                So you mean if you've fallen but are still flying the kite, while
                you're waiting to start off again, keep the kite seawards (wave
                wards) so it pulls you into the waves, because if you keep it
                shorewards you will be dragged by the waves, the lines will go slack
                and the kite will fall?
                Jo


                --- In kitesurf@y..., Stefano Rosso <stefano@o...> wrote:
                > ALWAYS point the kite into the waves... otherwise you wil ldrop
                your kite... 1
                > good wave can luff your kite in seconds as you tumble with it !
                >
                > > I've only doen a small amout of ktitng in real waves..we mostly
                get
                > > onshore slop up here..but in my few experiences it seemed to me
                that in
                > > strong winds and serious waves if you are down and are about to
                get
                > > worked hard by alot white water pointing your kite offshore wasn't
                > > nessarily the best thing to do... It seemed doing that would load
                up the
                > > lines really hard (maybe breaking things) and then i would shoot
                out the
                > > other side when released..all a bit out of control. If I pointed
                the
                > > kite toward the beach I would drag with the wave and forces would
                be
                > > much lower and I would get to the inside so as not to be a
                sitting duck
                > > for the next wave. Obviously if the wind is light and you worried
                about
                > > the kite falling out of the sky keep it offshore..what do you
                guys who
                > > have more experiience riding waves think???
              • mrjomacdonald
                Ok, gottcha guys. Jo ... could ... situation! ... shoot
                Message 7 of 21 , Sep 2, 2002
                  Ok, gottcha guys.
                  Jo

                  --- In kitesurf@y..., "gorgekiteboarder" <gorgekiteboarder@y...>
                  wrote:
                  > No question about it, Stefano is correct. NEVER point your kite
                  > towards the shore if you're going to get worked by a wave. It
                  could
                  > easily fall out of the sky, and you could end up getting "hog tied"
                  > in your lines as the surf tumbles you arround - very bad
                  situation!
                  > You should develop an instinct to immediately send your kite out to
                  > sea whenever you crash in the surf.
                  >
                  > Spencer
                  >
                  > --- In kitesurf@y..., Stefano Rosso <stefano@o...> wrote:
                  > > ALWAYS point the kite into the waves... otherwise you wil ldrop
                  > your kite... 1
                  > > good wave can luff your kite in seconds as you tumble with it !
                  > >
                  > > > I've only doen a small amout of ktitng in real waves..we mostly
                  > get
                  > > > onshore slop up here..but in my few experiences it seemed to me
                  > that in
                  > > > strong winds and serious waves if you are down and are about to
                  > get
                  > > > worked hard by alot white water pointing your kite offshore
                  > wasn't
                  > > > nessarily the best thing to do... It seemed doing that would
                  > load up the
                  > > > lines really hard (maybe breaking things) and then i would
                  shoot
                  > out the
                  > > > other side when released..all a bit out of control. If I
                  > pointed the
                  > > > kite toward the beach I would drag with the wave and forces
                  > would be
                  > > > much lower and I would get to the inside so as not to be a
                  > sitting duck
                  > > > for the next wave. Obviously if the wind is light and you
                  > worried about
                  > > > the kite falling out of the sky keep it offshore..what do you
                  > guys who
                  > > > have more experiience riding waves think???
                • Stefano Rosso
                  ... yes... a wave can send you VERY quickly under you kite and then chances of it dropping are huge even with an arc... this is especially important if you are
                  Message 8 of 21 , Sep 2, 2002
                    > Thanks for the input Stefano,
                    > So you mean if you've fallen but are still flying the kite, while
                    > you're waiting to start off again, keep the kite seawards (wave
                    > wards) so it pulls you into the waves, because if you keep it
                    > shorewards you will be dragged by the waves, the lines will go slack
                    > and the kite will fall?
                    > Jo

                    yes... a wave can send you VERY quickly under you kite and then chances of it
                    dropping are huge even with an arc...

                    this is especially important if you are riding onshore winds... in that case
                    you have to be extra careful because you cant send you kite in the direction
                    of the waves.. so another solution is to power the kite up just as you
                    arebout to get hit - this way your lines will be tensioned... basically you
                    dont want to keep your kite overhead when getting munched on by waves...
                  • mrjomacdonald
                    Great I added all that. ... slack ... chances of it ... that case ... direction ... you ... basically you ... waves...
                    Message 9 of 21 , Sep 2, 2002
                      Great I added all that.


                      --- In kitesurf@y..., Stefano Rosso <stefano@o...> wrote:
                      > > Thanks for the input Stefano,
                      > > So you mean if you've fallen but are still flying the kite, while
                      > > you're waiting to start off again, keep the kite seawards (wave
                      > > wards) so it pulls you into the waves, because if you keep it
                      > > shorewards you will be dragged by the waves, the lines will go
                      slack
                      > > and the kite will fall?
                      > > Jo
                      >
                      > yes... a wave can send you VERY quickly under you kite and then
                      chances of it
                      > dropping are huge even with an arc...
                      >
                      > this is especially important if you are riding onshore winds... in
                      that case
                      > you have to be extra careful because you cant send you kite in the
                      direction
                      > of the waves.. so another solution is to power the kite up just as
                      you
                      > arebout to get hit - this way your lines will be tensioned...
                      basically you
                      > dont want to keep your kite overhead when getting munched on by
                      waves...
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