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Re: Wave riding guidelines discussion

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  • flkiter
    ... make ... than ... There is also another reason for the increase in power when riding a wave. When you drop in and increase board speed, you will notice
    Message 1 of 21 , Sep 1, 2002
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      --- In kitesurf@y..., "kiteboardingjapan" <nick@h...> wrote:
      > Good list.
      >
      > I'd add, if your going out in bigger stuff (head high or more),
      make
      > sure you are nicely powered up. Best to be slightly overpowered
      than
      > under. There's nothing worse (or more dangerous) than loosing power
      > just when you need it most. Also, (and I'd like someone here to
      > explain why) the wind in front of a wave is much stronger.


      There is also another reason for the increase in power when riding a
      wave. When you drop in and increase board speed, you will notice that
      your kite drifts further back in the window because you are passin it
      up. This is especially noticable when you go down the line. The best
      way to deal with this is to keep the kite moving and lead all of your
      wave moves with the kite. It also helps to fly the kite a little
      higher than you normally would.
      Kite-on,
      GK
    • philflying
      Another important advice when surfing on the waves is to automatically try to put the kite in the opposite direction of the waves if things go wrong (caught by
      Message 2 of 21 , Sep 1, 2002
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        Another important advice when surfing on the waves is to
        automatically try to put the kite in the opposite direction of the
        waves if things go wrong (caught by the wave). It will help to get
        out quickly of the washing machine and also avoid to have the lines
        slack, with the kite totally depowered and falling into the wave with
        all the nasty situation it may result.

        Have fun
        Phil


        --- In kitesurf@y..., "mrjomacdonald" <mrjomacdonald@v...> wrote:
        > Wave riding guidelines discussion
        >
        > I would like to get some kite wave riding guidelines together for
        > kiters who want to start playing in the waves.
        > These are my thought and ideas on the basis of my wave riding +
        > windsurfing experience. As I don't have any direct experience of
        > kitesurfing in serious waves, feedback, suggestions, additions,
        > criticism and words of wisdom from experienced kite flying wave
        > riders is essential, so people with such experience please say your
        > piece.
        >
        > These are my ideas:
        >
        > 1. Know your limits. Don't try it in anything bigger than waist
        > height until you're hot in easier (flat, choppy, hip high waves)
        > conditions and can fly a kite in your sleep, big waves can hit with
        a
        > force of more than 3 tons per square foot when they break.
        > 2. Before you go out, sit on the beach and watch the waves for a
        > while, especially if you're at a spot you don't know. Remember that
        > from the beach the waves will look smaller than they actually are
        > when you're out there.
        > 3. Before going in ask locals for advice, a beach break is a lot
        > friendlier than a shallow reef break. A wave will break in water
        > roughly 1.3 times the height of the wave face, so this can give you
        > an idea of how deep the water is. Some reef breaks can actually
        suck
        > most of the water away from the wave's path and this can be
        unnerving
        > when you're on the wave because it will hurt if you fall. Many
        great
        > spots have sharp rocky shores, it's your life and your equipment.
        > 4. Avoid spots/days with waves that closeout (the whole bar
        > crashes down simultaneously) especially big closeouts, they are
        nasty.
        > 5. Check your equipment, which should be perfect, and warm up
        > before you go in.
        > 6. Always try to keep your kite flying and if it does go down
        > relaunch as quick as you can. Be good at it in flat water before
        you
        > try it in waves.
        > 7. Sideshore, side onshore and side offshore are best for wave
        > riding, jumping and if there's nothing else, in that order.
        Straight
        > onshore is much harder to go out in because the wind and waves will
        > push you back towards the beach all the time, there will probably
        be
        > a strong current in the same direction and you will have to kite
        > upwind right away so only try it if you're powered up.
        > 8. Unless there's onshore wind, waves usually come in sets of 3-
        > 5 or more, (in onshore wind it will probably just be a mess), if
        it's
        > your first time in serious waves or you're going to try anything
        > flash, wait for the last wave of the set to do your thing. This way
        > if you goof it you should (hopefully) have enough time to get your
        > act together before the next set hits you. If you fall on the first
        > wave of a set you'll get pounded by the rest of the set and be
        wiser
        > for it. You can jump the waves as you go out and surf them as you
        > come in.
        > 9. Don't panic in a wipeout, try to be aware of where your
        > equipment is, a last look before you go down is good if you get the
        > chance. When you do fall, try to fall over/through the wave and not
        > down its face.
        > 10. Waves further out to sea are a lot calmer than near the
        > beach. When starting out from the beach, watch the waves, wait for
        > the calm after a set has finished breaking, then go out quick, if
        > possible straight out (side shore wind is easiest). Get through the
        > shore break then stay out in the real waves, they're bigger too.
        > After the shore break (going out) is the impact zone where the
        bigger
        > waves break and you don't want to hang around here too long either.
        > Don't get into the shore break again until it's time to come in,
        > which is before you get tired and start making mistakes. Riding a
        > wave in is a good way to get back to the beach.
        >
        > 11. If a wave is too big for you, run (kite) away from it, he who
        > turns and kites away rides to surf another wave.
        > 12. Keep an eye on big waves coming in when you're playing in
        > their garden. Every once in a while a freak wave can come in which
        is
        > a lot bigger than the rest and it will probably break earlier too.
        A
        > wave doesn't have to be really big to hit hard, the thickness and
        > speed of a wave, as well as the way/how fast it jacks up when it
        hits
        > the shallows can turn a smooth ocean roller into a spitting,
        awesome
        > tube.
        > 13. If you don't have any experience with waves, (maybe you kite
        > on a lake) try surfing them with a surfboard or bodyboard first,
        this
        > will give you an idea of how powerful they are and how a board can
        > react in waves.
        > 14. Respect surfers, they are a lot less manoeuvrable than you
        > and have been surfing waves for a lot longer too (in Hawaii since
        the
        > 15th century).
        > 15. Some riders wear floatation vests, others don't. A floaty pfd
        > will mean a wave can get a better hold of you and a wipeout can
        last
        > longer, but if you do get knocked unconscious it can save your
        life.
        > Try going out in the waves without your kite and try both ways then
        > decide, it's your life.
        > 16. If you use a board leash, use a helmet too.
        >
        >
        > The above is all pretty standard windsurfing/surfing wave riding
        > stuff and what I've learnt at my expense.
        > The following points are the more specific kite flying/wave riding
        > points I'm not too sure about and probably what need changing most,
        > because they're just theory.
        >
        >
        > 17. Avoid sushi rolls at all costs, this is when you fall into a
        > wave down its face with your lines slack/kite down and the wave
        rolls
        > you in your lines, if the kite powers up or gets dragged down by
        the
        > waves it will not be funny at all. If you're kite is down avoid
        > getting tangled in your lines at all costs. If you do get tangled
        in
        > your lines and things look like they could get nasty, or already
        are,
        > cut your lines as fast as you can. Carry a hook knife.
        > 18. Avoid flying your kite seawards straight in front of you
        > (wave wise) this would mean offshore wind anyway (ideal surfing
        > conditions) so you shouldn't be doing it in the first place,
        because
        > if you and the kite fall and the kite gets submerged by the waves,
        it
        > will be pushed towards you and you will be in the midst of your
        > lines. If you are worried about getting caught in your lines, swim
        > towards/into the waves and crosswise away from where the waves are
        > dragging your lines which will be towards the beach. Dive under a
        > wave so it doesn't sweep you away.
        > 19. Use floating lines and bar. Unless they are actually being
        > swirled in a wave, to avoid the lines you can dive under them if
        all
        > else fails, just be careful not to surface in their midst.
        > 20. To get past a wave that's coming for you when you're on your
        > board, you can jump over it (using your legs to lift your board
        over
        > the wave as you hit it if you don't want to rocket skywards on
        every
        > wave you hit), dive the kite down a bit to build up speed and ride
        > straight through with the nose of your board it if the wave's not
        too
        > big, or if you don't like the look of it, change course and ride
        past
        > it or over a section that hasn't broken yet (remember that it might
        > start breaking by the time you get there) or through the part
        that's
        > already broken. White water and bubbling foam will play havoc with
        > the way your board rides so watch it. If you hit the wave with the
        > edge of the board the wave will grab it a lot more than if you hit
        > with the nose. Use your kite to lift you/jump out of rough
        situations.
        > 21. You can jump a lot higher in waves than in flat water, so
        > watch your landings. When in the air look to see when and where
        > you'll be landing. Landing a high jump with your board flat is the
        > easiest way to break your board or ankles. Use the kite to slow
        your
        > descent, try to land on the back of the board and use your legs as
        > shock absorbers. Be careful if jumping near the shore because the
        > backwash of a wave, especially a big one can drag a lot of water
        off
        > the beach and any left behind may be a lot shallower than you
        think.
        > If you're too close to the beach when landing a jump, kick your
        board
        > off and land on your feet.
        > 22. A low AR kite is a lot easier and faster to relaunch in waves
        > than a high AR kite.
        > 23. On light wind days you can use a floaty directional to surf
        > waves even when you're underpowered.
        >
        >
        > Remember, waves are beautiful graceful creatures but they're not
        your
        > friends and have no qualms about trashing you and/or your gear.
        > Respect them always, they are a lot stronger than you will ever be.
        >
        > Hang loose
        > Jo
      • r a n d y K A T O
        Also, when using the wave face as a sort of ramp for jumping, remember that you really don t need to do anything with the kite, just keep it where it is and
        Message 3 of 21 , Sep 1, 2002
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          Also, when using the wave face as a sort of ramp for jumping, remember
          that you really don't need to do anything with the kite, just keep it
          where it is and you'll be airborne as the water falls away from you. if
          you do want to steer the kite for more air/hangtime, remember not to
          oversteer! you're not on flat water. if you steer it back the same as
          with flat water jumping you could wind up higher than your kite - the
          wave face shoots you upward - then you're in real trouble.


          "Reason holds the helm, but passions are the gales." - J. Adams
        • mrjomacdonald
          Thanks for the input Phil, You mean when you ve fallen and are in the water and waiting to restart it s better to keep the kite flying at the seaward edge of
          Message 4 of 21 , Sep 1, 2002
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            Thanks for the input Phil,
            You mean when you've fallen and are in the water and waiting to
            restart it's better to keep the kite flying at the seaward edge of
            the wind window so the kite pulls you through the waves, and also
            because if you kept it to the shoreward side and a wave pushed you
            towards the beach this would make the lines go slack and luff the
            kite making it fall?
            Jo

            --- In kitesurf@y..., "philflying" <ph.leclair@w...> wrote:
            > Another important advice when surfing on the waves is to
            > automatically try to put the kite in the opposite direction of the
            > waves if things go wrong (caught by the wave). It will help to get
            > out quickly of the washing machine and also avoid to have the lines
            > slack, with the kite totally depowered and falling into the wave
            with
            > all the nasty situation it may result.
            >
            > Have fun
            > Phil
            >
            >
            > --- In kitesurf@y..., "mrjomacdonald" <mrjomacdonald@v...> wrote:
            > > Wave riding guidelines discussion
            > >
            > > I would like to get some kite wave riding guidelines together for
            > > kiters who want to start playing in the waves.
            > > These are my thought and ideas on the basis of my wave riding +
            > > windsurfing experience. As I don't have any direct experience of
            > > kitesurfing in serious waves, feedback, suggestions, additions,
            > > criticism and words of wisdom from experienced kite flying wave
            > > riders is essential, so people with such experience please say
            your
            > > piece.
            > >
            > > These are my ideas:
            > >
            > > 1. Know your limits. Don't try it in anything bigger than waist
            > > height until you're hot in easier (flat, choppy, hip high waves)
            > > conditions and can fly a kite in your sleep, big waves can hit
            with
            > a
            > > force of more than 3 tons per square foot when they break.
            > > 2. Before you go out, sit on the beach and watch the waves for a
            > > while, especially if you're at a spot you don't know. Remember
            that
            > > from the beach the waves will look smaller than they actually are
            > > when you're out there.
            > > 3. Before going in ask locals for advice, a beach break is a lot
            > > friendlier than a shallow reef break. A wave will break in water
            > > roughly 1.3 times the height of the wave face, so this can give
            you
            > > an idea of how deep the water is. Some reef breaks can actually
            > suck
            > > most of the water away from the wave's path and this can be
            > unnerving
            > > when you're on the wave because it will hurt if you fall. Many
            > great
            > > spots have sharp rocky shores, it's your life and your equipment.
            > > 4. Avoid spots/days with waves that closeout (the whole bar
            > > crashes down simultaneously) especially big closeouts, they are
            > nasty.
            > > 5. Check your equipment, which should be perfect, and warm up
            > > before you go in.
            > > 6. Always try to keep your kite flying and if it does go down
            > > relaunch as quick as you can. Be good at it in flat water before
            > you
            > > try it in waves.
            > > 7. Sideshore, side onshore and side offshore are best for wave
            > > riding, jumping and if there's nothing else, in that order.
            > Straight
            > > onshore is much harder to go out in because the wind and waves
            will
            > > push you back towards the beach all the time, there will probably
            > be
            > > a strong current in the same direction and you will have to kite
            > > upwind right away so only try it if you're powered up.
            > > 8. Unless there's onshore wind, waves usually come in sets of 3-
            > > 5 or more, (in onshore wind it will probably just be a mess), if
            > it's
            > > your first time in serious waves or you're going to try anything
            > > flash, wait for the last wave of the set to do your thing. This
            way
            > > if you goof it you should (hopefully) have enough time to get
            your
            > > act together before the next set hits you. If you fall on the
            first
            > > wave of a set you'll get pounded by the rest of the set and be
            > wiser
            > > for it. You can jump the waves as you go out and surf them as you
            > > come in.
            > > 9. Don't panic in a wipeout, try to be aware of where your
            > > equipment is, a last look before you go down is good if you get
            the
            > > chance. When you do fall, try to fall over/through the wave and
            not
            > > down its face.
            > > 10. Waves further out to sea are a lot calmer than near the
            > > beach. When starting out from the beach, watch the waves, wait
            for
            > > the calm after a set has finished breaking, then go out quick, if
            > > possible straight out (side shore wind is easiest). Get through
            the
            > > shore break then stay out in the real waves, they're bigger too.
            > > After the shore break (going out) is the impact zone where the
            > bigger
            > > waves break and you don't want to hang around here too long
            either.
            > > Don't get into the shore break again until it's time to come in,
            > > which is before you get tired and start making mistakes. Riding a
            > > wave in is a good way to get back to the beach.
            > >
            > > 11. If a wave is too big for you, run (kite) away from it, he who
            > > turns and kites away rides to surf another wave.
            > > 12. Keep an eye on big waves coming in when you're playing in
            > > their garden. Every once in a while a freak wave can come in
            which
            > is
            > > a lot bigger than the rest and it will probably break earlier
            too.
            > A
            > > wave doesn't have to be really big to hit hard, the thickness and
            > > speed of a wave, as well as the way/how fast it jacks up when it
            > hits
            > > the shallows can turn a smooth ocean roller into a spitting,
            > awesome
            > > tube.
            > > 13. If you don't have any experience with waves, (maybe you kite
            > > on a lake) try surfing them with a surfboard or bodyboard first,
            > this
            > > will give you an idea of how powerful they are and how a board
            can
            > > react in waves.
            > > 14. Respect surfers, they are a lot less manoeuvrable than you
            > > and have been surfing waves for a lot longer too (in Hawaii since
            > the
            > > 15th century).
            > > 15. Some riders wear floatation vests, others don't. A floaty pfd
            > > will mean a wave can get a better hold of you and a wipeout can
            > last
            > > longer, but if you do get knocked unconscious it can save your
            > life.
            > > Try going out in the waves without your kite and try both ways
            then
            > > decide, it's your life.
            > > 16. If you use a board leash, use a helmet too.
            > >
            > >
            > > The above is all pretty standard windsurfing/surfing wave riding
            > > stuff and what I've learnt at my expense.
            > > The following points are the more specific kite flying/wave
            riding
            > > points I'm not too sure about and probably what need changing
            most,
            > > because they're just theory.
            > >
            > >
            > > 17. Avoid sushi rolls at all costs, this is when you fall into a
            > > wave down its face with your lines slack/kite down and the wave
            > rolls
            > > you in your lines, if the kite powers up or gets dragged down by
            > the
            > > waves it will not be funny at all. If you're kite is down avoid
            > > getting tangled in your lines at all costs. If you do get tangled
            > in
            > > your lines and things look like they could get nasty, or already
            > are,
            > > cut your lines as fast as you can. Carry a hook knife.
            > > 18. Avoid flying your kite seawards straight in front of you
            > > (wave wise) this would mean offshore wind anyway (ideal surfing
            > > conditions) so you shouldn't be doing it in the first place,
            > because
            > > if you and the kite fall and the kite gets submerged by the
            waves,
            > it
            > > will be pushed towards you and you will be in the midst of your
            > > lines. If you are worried about getting caught in your lines,
            swim
            > > towards/into the waves and crosswise away from where the waves
            are
            > > dragging your lines which will be towards the beach. Dive under a
            > > wave so it doesn't sweep you away.
            > > 19. Use floating lines and bar. Unless they are actually being
            > > swirled in a wave, to avoid the lines you can dive under them if
            > all
            > > else fails, just be careful not to surface in their midst.
            > > 20. To get past a wave that's coming for you when you're on your
            > > board, you can jump over it (using your legs to lift your board
            > over
            > > the wave as you hit it if you don't want to rocket skywards on
            > every
            > > wave you hit), dive the kite down a bit to build up speed and
            ride
            > > straight through with the nose of your board it if the wave's not
            > too
            > > big, or if you don't like the look of it, change course and ride
            > past
            > > it or over a section that hasn't broken yet (remember that it
            might
            > > start breaking by the time you get there) or through the part
            > that's
            > > already broken. White water and bubbling foam will play havoc
            with
            > > the way your board rides so watch it. If you hit the wave with
            the
            > > edge of the board the wave will grab it a lot more than if you
            hit
            > > with the nose. Use your kite to lift you/jump out of rough
            > situations.
            > > 21. You can jump a lot higher in waves than in flat water, so
            > > watch your landings. When in the air look to see when and where
            > > you'll be landing. Landing a high jump with your board flat is
            the
            > > easiest way to break your board or ankles. Use the kite to slow
            > your
            > > descent, try to land on the back of the board and use your legs
            as
            > > shock absorbers. Be careful if jumping near the shore because the
            > > backwash of a wave, especially a big one can drag a lot of water
            > off
            > > the beach and any left behind may be a lot shallower than you
            > think.
            > > If you're too close to the beach when landing a jump, kick your
            > board
            > > off and land on your feet.
            > > 22. A low AR kite is a lot easier and faster to relaunch in waves
            > > than a high AR kite.
            > > 23. On light wind days you can use a floaty directional to surf
            > > waves even when you're underpowered.
            > >
            > >
            > > Remember, waves are beautiful graceful creatures but they're not
            > your
            > > friends and have no qualms about trashing you and/or your gear.
            > > Respect them always, they are a lot stronger than you will ever
            be.
            > >
            > > Hang loose
            > > Jo
          • mrjomacdonald
            Thanks Randy, Are you sure about that though, can you get higher than your kite if it s high towards zenith and going up, pulling you with it? What sort of
            Message 5 of 21 , Sep 1, 2002
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              Thanks Randy,
              Are you sure about that though, can you get higher than your kite if
              it's high towards zenith and going up, pulling you with it?
              What sort of kite angle do you think is ideal for wave
              jumping/riding, the position where you should keep the kite as you
              said?
              Jo

              --- In kitesurf@y..., r a n d y K A T O <randy@k...> wrote:
              > Also, when using the wave face as a sort of ramp for jumping,
              remember
              > that you really don't need to do anything with the kite, just keep
              it
              > where it is and you'll be airborne as the water falls away from
              you. if
              > you do want to steer the kite for more air/hangtime, remember not
              to
              > oversteer! you're not on flat water. if you steer it back the same
              as
              > with flat water jumping you could wind up higher than your kite -
              the
              > wave face shoots you upward - then you're in real trouble.
              >
              >
              > "Reason holds the helm, but passions are the gales." - J. Adams
            • Dwight & Jacky
              That s a bit silly. Do nothing with the kite, and you ll eat it big time. Kite low, powered, approaching a wave at high speed will send you horizontal when you
              Message 6 of 21 , Sep 1, 2002
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                That's a bit silly. Do nothing with the kite, and you'll eat it big time.
                Kite low, powered, approaching a wave at high speed will send you horizontal
                when you hit the peak. That kite better be in position to lift, not pull
                horizontal.

                Dwight



                > Thanks Randy,
                > Are you sure about that though, can you get higher than your kite if
                > it's high towards zenith and going up, pulling you with it?
                > What sort of kite angle do you think is ideal for wave
                > jumping/riding, the position where you should keep the kite as you
                > said?
                > Jo
                >
                > --- In kitesurf@y..., r a n d y K A T O <randy@k...> wrote:
                > > Also, when using the wave face as a sort of ramp for jumping,
                > remember
                > > that you really don't need to do anything with the kite, just keep
                > it
                > > where it is and you'll be airborne as the water falls away from
                > you. if
                > > you do want to steer the kite for more air/hangtime, remember not
                > to
                > > oversteer! you're not on flat water. if you steer it back the same
                > as
                > > with flat water jumping you could wind up higher than your kite -
                > the
                > > wave face shoots you upward - then you're in real trouble.
                > >
                > >
                > > "Reason holds the helm, but passions are the gales." - J. Adams
                >
                >
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              • Peter Traykovski
                I ve only doen a small amout of ktitng in real waves..we mostly get onshore slop up here..but in my few experiences it seemed to me that in strong winds and
                Message 7 of 21 , Sep 1, 2002
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                  I've only doen a small amout of ktitng in real waves..we mostly get
                  onshore slop up here..but in my few experiences it seemed to me that in
                  strong winds and serious waves if you are down and are about to get
                  worked hard by alot white water pointing your kite offshore wasn't
                  nessarily the best thing to do... It seemed doing that would load up the
                  lines really hard (maybe breaking things) and then i would shoot out the
                  other side when released..all a bit out of control. If I pointed the
                  kite toward the beach I would drag with the wave and forces would be
                  much lower and I would get to the inside so as not to be a sitting duck
                  for the next wave. Obviously if the wind is light and you worried about
                  the kite falling out of the sky keep it offshore..what do you guys who
                  have more experiience riding waves think???

                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >>Thanks Randy,
                  >>Are you sure about that though, can you get higher than your kite if
                  >>it's high towards zenith and going up, pulling you with it?
                  >>What sort of kite angle do you think is ideal for wave
                  >>jumping/riding, the position where you should keep the kite as you
                  >>said?
                  >>Jo
                  >>
                  >>--- In kitesurf@y..., r a n d y K A T O <randy@k...> wrote:
                  >>
                  >>>Also, when using the wave face as a sort of ramp for jumping,
                  >>>
                  >>remember
                  >>
                  >>>that you really don't need to do anything with the kite, just keep
                  >>>
                  >>it
                  >>
                  >>>where it is and you'll be airborne as the water falls away from
                  >>>
                  >>you. if
                  >>
                  >>>you do want to steer the kite for more air/hangtime, remember not
                  >>>
                  >>to
                  >>
                  >>>oversteer! you're not on flat water. if you steer it back the same
                  >>>
                  >>as
                  >>
                  >>>with flat water jumping you could wind up higher than your kite -
                  >>>
                  >>the
                  >>
                  >>>wave face shoots you upward - then you're in real trouble.
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>>"Reason holds the helm, but passions are the gales." - J. Adams
                  >>>
                  >>
                  >>This group is sponsored by KITEHIGH.COM
                  >>The original - http://www.KITEHIGH.COM
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                  >
                  >
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                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • r a n d y K A T O
                  right. i should have been more clear. with the kite up at 45 degrees or higher, preferably around 60 or 70 degrees, where it s pulling more vertical than
                  Message 8 of 21 , Sep 1, 2002
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                    right. i should have been more clear. with the kite up at 45 degrees or
                    higher, preferably around 60 or 70 degrees, where it's pulling more
                    vertical than horizontal, go up a wave/swell and you'll be floating off
                    the top. similar to the way you can jump with the kite in this position
                    by loading up the board and doing an ollie without steering the kite up
                    and back, only the wave acts as a ramp so instead of an ollie, you just
                    ride off the top.


                    On Sunday, Sep 1, 2002, at 14:57 US/Eastern, Dwight & Jacky wrote:

                    > That's a bit silly. Do nothing with the kite, and you'll eat it big
                    > time.
                    > Kite low, powered, approaching a wave at high speed will send you
                    > horizontal
                    > when you hit the peak. That kite better be in position to lift, not
                    > pull
                    > horizontal.
                    >
                    > Dwight
                  • kiteboardingjapan
                    I find the longest jumps of waves come when I keep the kite fairly high and ralley of the wave as I would on flat water. When you do a ralley the kite
                    Message 9 of 21 , Sep 1, 2002
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                      I find the longest jumps of waves come when I keep the kite fairly
                      high and ralley of the wave as I would on flat water. When you do a
                      ralley the kite naturally moves up so the force of you ralley gives
                      you height, and then the kite just raises to neutral and glides. No
                      kite movement required until you land. You can go really big but
                      safely, and land really soft.

                      Nick

                      --- In kitesurf@y..., "mrjomacdonald" <mrjomacdonald@v...> wrote:
                      > Thanks Randy,
                      > Are you sure about that though, can you get higher than your kite
                      if
                      > it's high towards zenith and going up, pulling you with it?
                      > What sort of kite angle do you think is ideal for wave
                      > jumping/riding, the position where you should keep the kite as you
                      > said?
                      > Jo
                      >
                      > --- In kitesurf@y..., r a n d y K A T O <randy@k...> wrote:
                      > > Also, when using the wave face as a sort of ramp for jumping,
                      > remember
                      > > that you really don't need to do anything with the kite, just
                      keep
                      > it
                      > > where it is and you'll be airborne as the water falls away from
                      > you. if
                      > > you do want to steer the kite for more air/hangtime, remember not
                      > to
                      > > oversteer! you're not on flat water. if you steer it back the
                      same
                      > as
                      > > with flat water jumping you could wind up higher than your kite -
                      > the
                      > > wave face shoots you upward - then you're in real trouble.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > "Reason holds the helm, but passions are the gales." - J. Adams
                    • Decay
                      Most good riders here use a longer board/smaller kite in waves than what they would in the same wind on flat water - this allows them to ride the shoulder
                      Message 10 of 21 , Sep 1, 2002
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                        Most good riders here use a longer board/smaller kite in waves than what
                        they would in the same wind on flat water - this allows them to ride the
                        shoulder without getting overpower and dragged onto the flats.

                        I quite like 20m lines in surf, it makes for quicker direction changes.

                        Decay

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: kiteboardingjapan <nick@...>
                        To: <kitesurf@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2002 11:33 PM
                        Subject: [ksurf] Re: Wave riding guidelines discussion


                        > Good list.
                        >
                        > I'd add, if your going out in bigger stuff (head high or more), make
                        > sure you are nicely powered up. Best to be slightly overpowered than
                        > under. There's nothing worse (or more dangerous) than loosing power
                        > just when you need it most. Also, (and I'd like someone here to
                        > explain why) the wind in front of a wave is much stronger. So when
                        > you are regularly powered, and drop down into a wave, you'll find
                        > you'll have a lot more power. This means that if you're maxed out
                        > going into a wave, you'll be overpowered when you drop into it.
                        >
                        > Nick
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In kitesurf@y..., "mrjomacdonald" <mrjomacdonald@v...> wrote:
                        > > Wave riding guidelines discussion
                        > >
                        > > I would like to get some kite wave riding guidelines together for
                        > > kiters who want to start playing in the waves.
                        > > These are my thought and ideas on the basis of my wave riding +
                        > > windsurfing experience. As I don't have any direct experience of
                        > > kitesurfing in serious waves, feedback, suggestions, additions,
                        > > criticism and words of wisdom from experienced kite flying wave
                        > > riders is essential, so people with such experience please say your
                        > > piece.
                        > >
                        > > These are my ideas:
                        > >
                        > > 1. Know your limits. Don't try it in anything bigger than
                        > waist
                        > > height until you're hot in easier (flat, choppy, hip high waves)
                        > > conditions and can fly a kite in your sleep, big waves can hit with
                        > a
                        > > force of more than 3 tons per square foot when they break.
                        > > 2. Before you go out, sit on the beach and watch the waves for
                        > a
                        > > while, especially if you're at a spot you don't know. Remember that
                        > > from the beach the waves will look smaller than they actually are
                        > > when you're out there.
                        > > 3. Before going in ask locals for advice, a beach break is a
                        > lot
                        > > friendlier than a shallow reef break. A wave will break in water
                        > > roughly 1.3 times the height of the wave face, so this can give you
                        > > an idea of how deep the water is. Some reef breaks can actually
                        > suck
                        > > most of the water away from the wave's path and this can be
                        > unnerving
                        > > when you're on the wave because it will hurt if you fall. Many
                        > great
                        > > spots have sharp rocky shores, it's your life and your equipment.
                        > > 4. Avoid spots/days with waves that closeout (the whole bar
                        > > crashes down simultaneously) especially big closeouts, they are
                        > nasty.
                        > > 5. Check your equipment, which should be perfect, and warm up
                        > > before you go in.
                        > > 6. Always try to keep your kite flying and if it does go down
                        > > relaunch as quick as you can. Be good at it in flat water before
                        > you
                        > > try it in waves.
                        > > 7. Sideshore, side onshore and side offshore are best for wave
                        > > riding, jumping and if there's nothing else, in that order.
                        > Straight
                        > > onshore is much harder to go out in because the wind and waves will
                        > > push you back towards the beach all the time, there will probably
                        > be
                        > > a strong current in the same direction and you will have to kite
                        > > upwind right away so only try it if you're powered up.
                        > > 8. Unless there's onshore wind, waves usually come in sets of
                        > 3-
                        > > 5 or more, (in onshore wind it will probably just be a mess), if
                        > it's
                        > > your first time in serious waves or you're going to try anything
                        > > flash, wait for the last wave of the set to do your thing. This way
                        > > if you goof it you should (hopefully) have enough time to get your
                        > > act together before the next set hits you. If you fall on the first
                        > > wave of a set you'll get pounded by the rest of the set and be
                        > wiser
                        > > for it. You can jump the waves as you go out and surf them as you
                        > > come in.
                        > > 9. Don't panic in a wipeout, try to be aware of where your
                        > > equipment is, a last look before you go down is good if you get the
                        > > chance. When you do fall, try to fall over/through the wave and not
                        > > down its face.
                        > > 10. Waves further out to sea are a lot calmer than near the
                        > > beach. When starting out from the beach, watch the waves, wait for
                        > > the calm after a set has finished breaking, then go out quick, if
                        > > possible straight out (side shore wind is easiest). Get through the
                        > > shore break then stay out in the real waves, they're bigger too.
                        > > After the shore break (going out) is the impact zone where the
                        > bigger
                        > > waves break and you don't want to hang around here too long either.
                        > > Don't get into the shore break again until it's time to come in,
                        > > which is before you get tired and start making mistakes. Riding a
                        > > wave in is a good way to get back to the beach.
                        > >
                        > > 11. If a wave is too big for you, run (kite) away from it, he
                        > who
                        > > turns and kites away rides to surf another wave.
                        > > 12. Keep an eye on big waves coming in when you're playing in
                        > > their garden. Every once in a while a freak wave can come in which
                        > is
                        > > a lot bigger than the rest and it will probably break earlier too.
                        > A
                        > > wave doesn't have to be really big to hit hard, the thickness and
                        > > speed of a wave, as well as the way/how fast it jacks up when it
                        > hits
                        > > the shallows can turn a smooth ocean roller into a spitting,
                        > awesome
                        > > tube.
                        > > 13. If you don't have any experience with waves, (maybe you
                        > kite
                        > > on a lake) try surfing them with a surfboard or bodyboard first,
                        > this
                        > > will give you an idea of how powerful they are and how a board can
                        > > react in waves.
                        > > 14. Respect surfers, they are a lot less manoeuvrable than you
                        > > and have been surfing waves for a lot longer too (in Hawaii since
                        > the
                        > > 15th century).
                        > > 15. Some riders wear floatation vests, others don't. A floaty
                        > pfd
                        > > will mean a wave can get a better hold of you and a wipeout can
                        > last
                        > > longer, but if you do get knocked unconscious it can save your
                        > life.
                        > > Try going out in the waves without your kite and try both ways then
                        > > decide, it's your life.
                        > > 16. If you use a board leash, use a helmet too.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > The above is all pretty standard windsurfing/surfing wave riding
                        > > stuff and what I've learnt at my expense.
                        > > The following points are the more specific kite flying/wave riding
                        > > points I'm not too sure about and probably what need changing most,
                        > > because they're just theory.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > 17. Avoid sushi rolls at all costs, this is when you fall into
                        > a
                        > > wave down its face with your lines slack/kite down and the wave
                        > rolls
                        > > you in your lines, if the kite powers up or gets dragged down by
                        > the
                        > > waves it will not be funny at all. If you're kite is down avoid
                        > > getting tangled in your lines at all costs. If you do get tangled
                        > in
                        > > your lines and things look like they could get nasty, or already
                        > are,
                        > > cut your lines as fast as you can. Carry a hook knife.
                        > > 18. Avoid flying your kite seawards straight in front of you
                        > > (wave wise) this would mean offshore wind anyway (ideal surfing
                        > > conditions) so you shouldn't be doing it in the first place,
                        > because
                        > > if you and the kite fall and the kite gets submerged by the waves,
                        > it
                        > > will be pushed towards you and you will be in the midst of your
                        > > lines. If you are worried about getting caught in your lines, swim
                        > > towards/into the waves and crosswise away from where the waves are
                        > > dragging your lines which will be towards the beach. Dive under a
                        > > wave so it doesn't sweep you away.
                        > > 19. Use floating lines and bar. Unless they are actually being
                        > > swirled in a wave, to avoid the lines you can dive under them if
                        > all
                        > > else fails, just be careful not to surface in their midst.
                        > > 20. To get past a wave that's coming for you when you're on
                        > your
                        > > board, you can jump over it (using your legs to lift your board
                        > over
                        > > the wave as you hit it if you don't want to rocket skywards on
                        > every
                        > > wave you hit), dive the kite down a bit to build up speed and ride
                        > > straight through with the nose of your board it if the wave's not
                        > too
                        > > big, or if you don't like the look of it, change course and ride
                        > past
                        > > it or over a section that hasn't broken yet (remember that it might
                        > > start breaking by the time you get there) or through the part
                        > that's
                        > > already broken. White water and bubbling foam will play havoc with
                        > > the way your board rides so watch it. If you hit the wave with the
                        > > edge of the board the wave will grab it a lot more than if you hit
                        > > with the nose. Use your kite to lift you/jump out of rough
                        > situations.
                        > > 21. You can jump a lot higher in waves than in flat water, so
                        > > watch your landings. When in the air look to see when and where
                        > > you'll be landing. Landing a high jump with your board flat is the
                        > > easiest way to break your board or ankles. Use the kite to slow
                        > your
                        > > descent, try to land on the back of the board and use your legs as
                        > > shock absorbers. Be careful if jumping near the shore because the
                        > > backwash of a wave, especially a big one can drag a lot of water
                        > off
                        > > the beach and any left behind may be a lot shallower than you
                        > think.
                        > > If you're too close to the beach when landing a jump, kick your
                        > board
                        > > off and land on your feet.
                        > > 22. A low AR kite is a lot easier and faster to relaunch in
                        > waves
                        > > than a high AR kite.
                        > > 23. On light wind days you can use a floaty directional to surf
                        > > waves even when you're underpowered.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Remember, waves are beautiful graceful creatures but they're not
                        > your
                        > > friends and have no qualms about trashing you and/or your gear.
                        > > Respect them always, they are a lot stronger than you will ever be.
                        > >
                        > > Hang loose
                        > > Jo
                        >
                        >
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                      • r a n d y K A T O
                        well, that s the most extreme scenario - you higher than the kite, but it is possible (i ve seen it). when jumping on flat water by steering the kite up and
                        Message 11 of 21 , Sep 1, 2002
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                          well, that's the most extreme scenario - you higher than the kite, but
                          it is possible (i've seen it). when jumping on flat water by steering
                          the kite up and back past zenith it's easy enough to wait too long to
                          steer the kite back forward and wind up with the pendulum effect. when
                          you do this in the waves, especially if you're taking off from the face
                          of a wave that can shoot you up vertically, the combination can put you
                          and your kite at pretty similar heights which can have some scary
                          consequences.

                          if you're used to jumping off flat water, you get a feel for where the
                          kite is by how the lines are pulling, but if you're leaned back as you
                          ride up a wave face, what feels like 12 o'clock may actually be 11 or
                          even 10 (on a starboard tack). so if you normally start to steer the
                          kite back forward once it reaches 11 o'clock, your kite may actually be
                          approaching 9 o'clock by the time you react - 9 o'clock means you and
                          the kite are at the same height.

                          it's hard to explain without visual aids, but i hope this makes sense.
                          i guess the main thing is that for the most part you want the kite in
                          the same positions as with flat water riding/jumping (which can be just
                          about anywhere depending on what you're trying to achieve), but be
                          aware that in the waves YOU are also being raised, lowered, and pushed
                          by the water so that will influence your position in relation to the
                          kite and vice versa.

                          On Sunday, Sep 1, 2002, at 14:45 US/Eastern, mrjomacdonald wrote:

                          > Thanks Randy,
                          > Are you sure about that though, can you get higher than your kite if
                          > it's high towards zenith and going up, pulling you with it?
                          > What sort of kite angle do you think is ideal for wave
                          > jumping/riding, the position where you should keep the kite as you
                          > said?
                          > Jo
                        • Stefano Rosso
                          ALWAYS point the kite into the waves... otherwise you wil ldrop your kite... 1 good wave can luff your kite in seconds as you tumble with it !
                          Message 12 of 21 , Sep 2, 2002
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                            ALWAYS point the kite into the waves... otherwise you wil ldrop your kite... 1
                            good wave can luff your kite in seconds as you tumble with it !

                            > I've only doen a small amout of ktitng in real waves..we mostly get
                            > onshore slop up here..but in my few experiences it seemed to me that in
                            > strong winds and serious waves if you are down and are about to get
                            > worked hard by alot white water pointing your kite offshore wasn't
                            > nessarily the best thing to do... It seemed doing that would load up the
                            > lines really hard (maybe breaking things) and then i would shoot out the
                            > other side when released..all a bit out of control. If I pointed the
                            > kite toward the beach I would drag with the wave and forces would be
                            > much lower and I would get to the inside so as not to be a sitting duck
                            > for the next wave. Obviously if the wind is light and you worried about
                            > the kite falling out of the sky keep it offshore..what do you guys who
                            > have more experiience riding waves think???
                          • gorgekiteboarder
                            No question about it, Stefano is correct. NEVER point your kite towards the shore if you re going to get worked by a wave. It could easily fall out of the
                            Message 13 of 21 , Sep 2, 2002
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                              No question about it, Stefano is correct. NEVER point your kite
                              towards the shore if you're going to get worked by a wave. It could
                              easily fall out of the sky, and you could end up getting "hog tied"
                              in your lines as the surf tumbles you arround - very bad situation!
                              You should develop an instinct to immediately send your kite out to
                              sea whenever you crash in the surf.

                              Spencer

                              --- In kitesurf@y..., Stefano Rosso <stefano@o...> wrote:
                              > ALWAYS point the kite into the waves... otherwise you wil ldrop
                              your kite... 1
                              > good wave can luff your kite in seconds as you tumble with it !
                              >
                              > > I've only doen a small amout of ktitng in real waves..we mostly
                              get
                              > > onshore slop up here..but in my few experiences it seemed to me
                              that in
                              > > strong winds and serious waves if you are down and are about to
                              get
                              > > worked hard by alot white water pointing your kite offshore
                              wasn't
                              > > nessarily the best thing to do... It seemed doing that would
                              load up the
                              > > lines really hard (maybe breaking things) and then i would shoot
                              out the
                              > > other side when released..all a bit out of control. If I
                              pointed the
                              > > kite toward the beach I would drag with the wave and forces
                              would be
                              > > much lower and I would get to the inside so as not to be a
                              sitting duck
                              > > for the next wave. Obviously if the wind is light and you
                              worried about
                              > > the kite falling out of the sky keep it offshore..what do you
                              guys who
                              > > have more experiience riding waves think???
                            • mrjomacdonald
                              Thanks for the input Stefano, So you mean if you ve fallen but are still flying the kite, while you re waiting to start off again, keep the kite seawards (wave
                              Message 14 of 21 , Sep 2, 2002
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                                Thanks for the input Stefano,
                                So you mean if you've fallen but are still flying the kite, while
                                you're waiting to start off again, keep the kite seawards (wave
                                wards) so it pulls you into the waves, because if you keep it
                                shorewards you will be dragged by the waves, the lines will go slack
                                and the kite will fall?
                                Jo


                                --- In kitesurf@y..., Stefano Rosso <stefano@o...> wrote:
                                > ALWAYS point the kite into the waves... otherwise you wil ldrop
                                your kite... 1
                                > good wave can luff your kite in seconds as you tumble with it !
                                >
                                > > I've only doen a small amout of ktitng in real waves..we mostly
                                get
                                > > onshore slop up here..but in my few experiences it seemed to me
                                that in
                                > > strong winds and serious waves if you are down and are about to
                                get
                                > > worked hard by alot white water pointing your kite offshore wasn't
                                > > nessarily the best thing to do... It seemed doing that would load
                                up the
                                > > lines really hard (maybe breaking things) and then i would shoot
                                out the
                                > > other side when released..all a bit out of control. If I pointed
                                the
                                > > kite toward the beach I would drag with the wave and forces would
                                be
                                > > much lower and I would get to the inside so as not to be a
                                sitting duck
                                > > for the next wave. Obviously if the wind is light and you worried
                                about
                                > > the kite falling out of the sky keep it offshore..what do you
                                guys who
                                > > have more experiience riding waves think???
                              • mrjomacdonald
                                Ok, gottcha guys. Jo ... could ... situation! ... shoot
                                Message 15 of 21 , Sep 2, 2002
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                                  Ok, gottcha guys.
                                  Jo

                                  --- In kitesurf@y..., "gorgekiteboarder" <gorgekiteboarder@y...>
                                  wrote:
                                  > No question about it, Stefano is correct. NEVER point your kite
                                  > towards the shore if you're going to get worked by a wave. It
                                  could
                                  > easily fall out of the sky, and you could end up getting "hog tied"
                                  > in your lines as the surf tumbles you arround - very bad
                                  situation!
                                  > You should develop an instinct to immediately send your kite out to
                                  > sea whenever you crash in the surf.
                                  >
                                  > Spencer
                                  >
                                  > --- In kitesurf@y..., Stefano Rosso <stefano@o...> wrote:
                                  > > ALWAYS point the kite into the waves... otherwise you wil ldrop
                                  > your kite... 1
                                  > > good wave can luff your kite in seconds as you tumble with it !
                                  > >
                                  > > > I've only doen a small amout of ktitng in real waves..we mostly
                                  > get
                                  > > > onshore slop up here..but in my few experiences it seemed to me
                                  > that in
                                  > > > strong winds and serious waves if you are down and are about to
                                  > get
                                  > > > worked hard by alot white water pointing your kite offshore
                                  > wasn't
                                  > > > nessarily the best thing to do... It seemed doing that would
                                  > load up the
                                  > > > lines really hard (maybe breaking things) and then i would
                                  shoot
                                  > out the
                                  > > > other side when released..all a bit out of control. If I
                                  > pointed the
                                  > > > kite toward the beach I would drag with the wave and forces
                                  > would be
                                  > > > much lower and I would get to the inside so as not to be a
                                  > sitting duck
                                  > > > for the next wave. Obviously if the wind is light and you
                                  > worried about
                                  > > > the kite falling out of the sky keep it offshore..what do you
                                  > guys who
                                  > > > have more experiience riding waves think???
                                • Stefano Rosso
                                  ... yes... a wave can send you VERY quickly under you kite and then chances of it dropping are huge even with an arc... this is especially important if you are
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Sep 2, 2002
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                                    > Thanks for the input Stefano,
                                    > So you mean if you've fallen but are still flying the kite, while
                                    > you're waiting to start off again, keep the kite seawards (wave
                                    > wards) so it pulls you into the waves, because if you keep it
                                    > shorewards you will be dragged by the waves, the lines will go slack
                                    > and the kite will fall?
                                    > Jo

                                    yes... a wave can send you VERY quickly under you kite and then chances of it
                                    dropping are huge even with an arc...

                                    this is especially important if you are riding onshore winds... in that case
                                    you have to be extra careful because you cant send you kite in the direction
                                    of the waves.. so another solution is to power the kite up just as you
                                    arebout to get hit - this way your lines will be tensioned... basically you
                                    dont want to keep your kite overhead when getting munched on by waves...
                                  • mrjomacdonald
                                    Great I added all that. ... slack ... chances of it ... that case ... direction ... you ... basically you ... waves...
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Sep 2, 2002
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                                      Great I added all that.


                                      --- In kitesurf@y..., Stefano Rosso <stefano@o...> wrote:
                                      > > Thanks for the input Stefano,
                                      > > So you mean if you've fallen but are still flying the kite, while
                                      > > you're waiting to start off again, keep the kite seawards (wave
                                      > > wards) so it pulls you into the waves, because if you keep it
                                      > > shorewards you will be dragged by the waves, the lines will go
                                      slack
                                      > > and the kite will fall?
                                      > > Jo
                                      >
                                      > yes... a wave can send you VERY quickly under you kite and then
                                      chances of it
                                      > dropping are huge even with an arc...
                                      >
                                      > this is especially important if you are riding onshore winds... in
                                      that case
                                      > you have to be extra careful because you cant send you kite in the
                                      direction
                                      > of the waves.. so another solution is to power the kite up just as
                                      you
                                      > arebout to get hit - this way your lines will be tensioned...
                                      basically you
                                      > dont want to keep your kite overhead when getting munched on by
                                      waves...
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