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Re: Wave riding guidelines discussion

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  • kiteboardingjapan
    ah, apparent wind. Obvious really, but just never thought about it... Thanks. Nick ... you ... power ... when ... for ... of ... waves) ... are ... water ...
    Message 1 of 21 , Sep 1, 2002
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      ah, apparent wind. Obvious really, but just never thought about it...

      Thanks.

      Nick

      --- In kitesurf@y..., "olehlie" <olelie@s...> wrote:
      > You feel (are) more powered when going down the face due to your
      > increasing boardspeed. This results in a massive increase in
      > appearent wind across the kite.
      >
      > So really you should have two kites: One big for going out (when
      you
      > need some grunt to push out through the waves) and one small for
      > riding in once you pick up speed ;-)
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In kitesurf@y..., "kiteboardingjapan" <nick@h...> wrote:
      > > Good list.
      > >
      > > I'd add, if your going out in bigger stuff (head high or more),
      > make
      > > sure you are nicely powered up. Best to be slightly overpowered
      > than
      > > under. There's nothing worse (or more dangerous) than loosing
      power
      > > just when you need it most. Also, (and I'd like someone here to
      > > explain why) the wind in front of a wave is much stronger. So
      when
      > > you are regularly powered, and drop down into a wave, you'll find
      > > you'll have a lot more power. This means that if you're maxed out
      > > going into a wave, you'll be overpowered when you drop into it.
      > >
      > > Nick
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In kitesurf@y..., "mrjomacdonald" <mrjomacdonald@v...> wrote:
      > > > Wave riding guidelines discussion
      > > >
      > > > I would like to get some kite wave riding guidelines together
      for
      > > > kiters who want to start playing in the waves.
      > > > These are my thought and ideas on the basis of my wave riding +
      > > > windsurfing experience. As I don't have any direct experience
      of
      > > > kitesurfing in serious waves, feedback, suggestions, additions,
      > > > criticism and words of wisdom from experienced kite flying wave
      > > > riders is essential, so people with such experience please say
      > your
      > > > piece.
      > > >
      > > > These are my ideas:
      > > >
      > > > 1. Know your limits. Don't try it in anything bigger than
      > > waist
      > > > height until you're hot in easier (flat, choppy, hip high
      waves)
      > > > conditions and can fly a kite in your sleep, big waves can hit
      > with
      > > a
      > > > force of more than 3 tons per square foot when they break.
      > > > 2. Before you go out, sit on the beach and watch the waves for
      > > a
      > > > while, especially if you're at a spot you don't know. Remember
      > that
      > > > from the beach the waves will look smaller than they actually
      are
      > > > when you're out there.
      > > > 3. Before going in ask locals for advice, a beach break is a
      > > lot
      > > > friendlier than a shallow reef break. A wave will break in
      water
      > > > roughly 1.3 times the height of the wave face, so this can give
      > you
      > > > an idea of how deep the water is. Some reef breaks can actually
      > > suck
      > > > most of the water away from the wave's path and this can be
      > > unnerving
      > > > when you're on the wave because it will hurt if you fall. Many
      > > great
      > > > spots have sharp rocky shores, it's your life and your
      equipment.
      > > > 4. Avoid spots/days with waves that closeout (the whole bar
      > > > crashes down simultaneously) especially big closeouts, they are
      > > nasty.
      > > > 5. Check your equipment, which should be perfect, and warm up
      > > > before you go in.
      > > > 6. Always try to keep your kite flying and if it does go down
      > > > relaunch as quick as you can. Be good at it in flat water
      before
      > > you
      > > > try it in waves.
      > > > 7. Sideshore, side onshore and side offshore are best for wave
      > > > riding, jumping and if there's nothing else, in that order.
      > > Straight
      > > > onshore is much harder to go out in because the wind and waves
      > will
      > > > push you back towards the beach all the time, there will
      probably
      > > be
      > > > a strong current in the same direction and you will have to
      kite
      > > > upwind right away so only try it if you're powered up.
      > > > 8. Unless there's onshore wind, waves usually come in sets of
      > > 3-
      > > > 5 or more, (in onshore wind it will probably just be a mess),
      if
      > > it's
      > > > your first time in serious waves or you're going to try
      anything
      > > > flash, wait for the last wave of the set to do your thing. This
      > way
      > > > if you goof it you should (hopefully) have enough time to get
      > your
      > > > act together before the next set hits you. If you fall on the
      > first
      > > > wave of a set you'll get pounded by the rest of the set and be
      > > wiser
      > > > for it. You can jump the waves as you go out and surf them as
      you
      > > > come in.
      > > > 9. Don't panic in a wipeout, try to be aware of where your
      > > > equipment is, a last look before you go down is good if you get
      > the
      > > > chance. When you do fall, try to fall over/through the wave and
      > not
      > > > down its face.
      > > > 10. Waves further out to sea are a lot calmer than near the
      > > > beach. When starting out from the beach, watch the waves, wait
      > for
      > > > the calm after a set has finished breaking, then go out quick,
      if
      > > > possible straight out (side shore wind is easiest). Get through
      > the
      > > > shore break then stay out in the real waves, they're bigger
      too.
      > > > After the shore break (going out) is the impact zone where the
      > > bigger
      > > > waves break and you don't want to hang around here too long
      > either.
      > > > Don't get into the shore break again until it's time to come
      in,
      > > > which is before you get tired and start making mistakes. Riding
      a
      > > > wave in is a good way to get back to the beach.
      > > >
      > > > 11. If a wave is too big for you, run (kite) away from it, he
      > > who
      > > > turns and kites away rides to surf another wave.
      > > > 12. Keep an eye on big waves coming in when you're playing in
      > > > their garden. Every once in a while a freak wave can come in
      > which
      > > is
      > > > a lot bigger than the rest and it will probably break earlier
      > too.
      > > A
      > > > wave doesn't have to be really big to hit hard, the thickness
      and
      > > > speed of a wave, as well as the way/how fast it jacks up when
      it
      > > hits
      > > > the shallows can turn a smooth ocean roller into a spitting,
      > > awesome
      > > > tube.
      > > > 13. If you don't have any experience with waves, (maybe you
      > > kite
      > > > on a lake) try surfing them with a surfboard or bodyboard
      first,
      > > this
      > > > will give you an idea of how powerful they are and how a board
      > can
      > > > react in waves.
      > > > 14. Respect surfers, they are a lot less manoeuvrable than you
      > > > and have been surfing waves for a lot longer too (in Hawaii
      since
      > > the
      > > > 15th century).
      > > > 15. Some riders wear floatation vests, others don't. A floaty
      > > pfd
      > > > will mean a wave can get a better hold of you and a wipeout can
      > > last
      > > > longer, but if you do get knocked unconscious it can save your
      > > life.
      > > > Try going out in the waves without your kite and try both ways
      > then
      > > > decide, it's your life.
      > > > 16. If you use a board leash, use a helmet too.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > The above is all pretty standard windsurfing/surfing wave
      riding
      > > > stuff and what I've learnt at my expense.
      > > > The following points are the more specific kite flying/wave
      > riding
      > > > points I'm not too sure about and probably what need changing
      > most,
      > > > because they're just theory.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > 17. Avoid sushi rolls at all costs, this is when you fall into
      > > a
      > > > wave down its face with your lines slack/kite down and the wave
      > > rolls
      > > > you in your lines, if the kite powers up or gets dragged down
      by
      > > the
      > > > waves it will not be funny at all. If you're kite is down avoid
      > > > getting tangled in your lines at all costs. If you do get
      tangled
      > > in
      > > > your lines and things look like they could get nasty, or
      already
      > > are,
      > > > cut your lines as fast as you can. Carry a hook knife.
      > > > 18. Avoid flying your kite seawards straight in front of you
      > > > (wave wise) this would mean offshore wind anyway (ideal surfing
      > > > conditions) so you shouldn't be doing it in the first place,
      > > because
      > > > if you and the kite fall and the kite gets submerged by the
      > waves,
      > > it
      > > > will be pushed towards you and you will be in the midst of your
      > > > lines. If you are worried about getting caught in your lines,
      > swim
      > > > towards/into the waves and crosswise away from where the waves
      > are
      > > > dragging your lines which will be towards the beach. Dive under
      a
      > > > wave so it doesn't sweep you away.
      > > > 19. Use floating lines and bar. Unless they are actually being
      > > > swirled in a wave, to avoid the lines you can dive under them
      if
      > > all
      > > > else fails, just be careful not to surface in their midst.
      > > > 20. To get past a wave that's coming for you when you're on
      > > your
      > > > board, you can jump over it (using your legs to lift your board
      > > over
      > > > the wave as you hit it if you don't want to rocket skywards on
      > > every
      > > > wave you hit), dive the kite down a bit to build up speed and
      > ride
      > > > straight through with the nose of your board it if the wave's
      not
      > > too
      > > > big, or if you don't like the look of it, change course and
      ride
      > > past
      > > > it or over a section that hasn't broken yet (remember that it
      > might
      > > > start breaking by the time you get there) or through the part
      > > that's
      > > > already broken. White water and bubbling foam will play havoc
      > with
      > > > the way your board rides so watch it. If you hit the wave with
      > the
      > > > edge of the board the wave will grab it a lot more than if you
      > hit
      > > > with the nose. Use your kite to lift you/jump out of rough
      > > situations.
      > > > 21. You can jump a lot higher in waves than in flat water, so
      > > > watch your landings. When in the air look to see when and where
      > > > you'll be landing. Landing a high jump with your board flat is
      > the
      > > > easiest way to break your board or ankles. Use the kite to slow
      > > your
      > > > descent, try to land on the back of the board and use your legs
      > as
      > > > shock absorbers. Be careful if jumping near the shore because
      the
      > > > backwash of a wave, especially a big one can drag a lot of
      water
      > > off
      > > > the beach and any left behind may be a lot shallower than you
      > > think.
      > > > If you're too close to the beach when landing a jump, kick your
      > > board
      > > > off and land on your feet.
      > > > 22. A low AR kite is a lot easier and faster to relaunch in
      > > waves
      > > > than a high AR kite.
      > > > 23. On light wind days you can use a floaty directional to surf
      > > > waves even when you're underpowered.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Remember, waves are beautiful graceful creatures but they're
      not
      > > your
      > > > friends and have no qualms about trashing you and/or your gear.
      > > > Respect them always, they are a lot stronger than you will ever
      > be.
      > > >
      > > > Hang loose
      > > > Jo
    • flkiter
      ... make ... than ... There is also another reason for the increase in power when riding a wave. When you drop in and increase board speed, you will notice
      Message 2 of 21 , Sep 1, 2002
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        --- In kitesurf@y..., "kiteboardingjapan" <nick@h...> wrote:
        > Good list.
        >
        > I'd add, if your going out in bigger stuff (head high or more),
        make
        > sure you are nicely powered up. Best to be slightly overpowered
        than
        > under. There's nothing worse (or more dangerous) than loosing power
        > just when you need it most. Also, (and I'd like someone here to
        > explain why) the wind in front of a wave is much stronger.


        There is also another reason for the increase in power when riding a
        wave. When you drop in and increase board speed, you will notice that
        your kite drifts further back in the window because you are passin it
        up. This is especially noticable when you go down the line. The best
        way to deal with this is to keep the kite moving and lead all of your
        wave moves with the kite. It also helps to fly the kite a little
        higher than you normally would.
        Kite-on,
        GK
      • philflying
        Another important advice when surfing on the waves is to automatically try to put the kite in the opposite direction of the waves if things go wrong (caught by
        Message 3 of 21 , Sep 1, 2002
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          Another important advice when surfing on the waves is to
          automatically try to put the kite in the opposite direction of the
          waves if things go wrong (caught by the wave). It will help to get
          out quickly of the washing machine and also avoid to have the lines
          slack, with the kite totally depowered and falling into the wave with
          all the nasty situation it may result.

          Have fun
          Phil


          --- In kitesurf@y..., "mrjomacdonald" <mrjomacdonald@v...> wrote:
          > Wave riding guidelines discussion
          >
          > I would like to get some kite wave riding guidelines together for
          > kiters who want to start playing in the waves.
          > These are my thought and ideas on the basis of my wave riding +
          > windsurfing experience. As I don't have any direct experience of
          > kitesurfing in serious waves, feedback, suggestions, additions,
          > criticism and words of wisdom from experienced kite flying wave
          > riders is essential, so people with such experience please say your
          > piece.
          >
          > These are my ideas:
          >
          > 1. Know your limits. Don't try it in anything bigger than waist
          > height until you're hot in easier (flat, choppy, hip high waves)
          > conditions and can fly a kite in your sleep, big waves can hit with
          a
          > force of more than 3 tons per square foot when they break.
          > 2. Before you go out, sit on the beach and watch the waves for a
          > while, especially if you're at a spot you don't know. Remember that
          > from the beach the waves will look smaller than they actually are
          > when you're out there.
          > 3. Before going in ask locals for advice, a beach break is a lot
          > friendlier than a shallow reef break. A wave will break in water
          > roughly 1.3 times the height of the wave face, so this can give you
          > an idea of how deep the water is. Some reef breaks can actually
          suck
          > most of the water away from the wave's path and this can be
          unnerving
          > when you're on the wave because it will hurt if you fall. Many
          great
          > spots have sharp rocky shores, it's your life and your equipment.
          > 4. Avoid spots/days with waves that closeout (the whole bar
          > crashes down simultaneously) especially big closeouts, they are
          nasty.
          > 5. Check your equipment, which should be perfect, and warm up
          > before you go in.
          > 6. Always try to keep your kite flying and if it does go down
          > relaunch as quick as you can. Be good at it in flat water before
          you
          > try it in waves.
          > 7. Sideshore, side onshore and side offshore are best for wave
          > riding, jumping and if there's nothing else, in that order.
          Straight
          > onshore is much harder to go out in because the wind and waves will
          > push you back towards the beach all the time, there will probably
          be
          > a strong current in the same direction and you will have to kite
          > upwind right away so only try it if you're powered up.
          > 8. Unless there's onshore wind, waves usually come in sets of 3-
          > 5 or more, (in onshore wind it will probably just be a mess), if
          it's
          > your first time in serious waves or you're going to try anything
          > flash, wait for the last wave of the set to do your thing. This way
          > if you goof it you should (hopefully) have enough time to get your
          > act together before the next set hits you. If you fall on the first
          > wave of a set you'll get pounded by the rest of the set and be
          wiser
          > for it. You can jump the waves as you go out and surf them as you
          > come in.
          > 9. Don't panic in a wipeout, try to be aware of where your
          > equipment is, a last look before you go down is good if you get the
          > chance. When you do fall, try to fall over/through the wave and not
          > down its face.
          > 10. Waves further out to sea are a lot calmer than near the
          > beach. When starting out from the beach, watch the waves, wait for
          > the calm after a set has finished breaking, then go out quick, if
          > possible straight out (side shore wind is easiest). Get through the
          > shore break then stay out in the real waves, they're bigger too.
          > After the shore break (going out) is the impact zone where the
          bigger
          > waves break and you don't want to hang around here too long either.
          > Don't get into the shore break again until it's time to come in,
          > which is before you get tired and start making mistakes. Riding a
          > wave in is a good way to get back to the beach.
          >
          > 11. If a wave is too big for you, run (kite) away from it, he who
          > turns and kites away rides to surf another wave.
          > 12. Keep an eye on big waves coming in when you're playing in
          > their garden. Every once in a while a freak wave can come in which
          is
          > a lot bigger than the rest and it will probably break earlier too.
          A
          > wave doesn't have to be really big to hit hard, the thickness and
          > speed of a wave, as well as the way/how fast it jacks up when it
          hits
          > the shallows can turn a smooth ocean roller into a spitting,
          awesome
          > tube.
          > 13. If you don't have any experience with waves, (maybe you kite
          > on a lake) try surfing them with a surfboard or bodyboard first,
          this
          > will give you an idea of how powerful they are and how a board can
          > react in waves.
          > 14. Respect surfers, they are a lot less manoeuvrable than you
          > and have been surfing waves for a lot longer too (in Hawaii since
          the
          > 15th century).
          > 15. Some riders wear floatation vests, others don't. A floaty pfd
          > will mean a wave can get a better hold of you and a wipeout can
          last
          > longer, but if you do get knocked unconscious it can save your
          life.
          > Try going out in the waves without your kite and try both ways then
          > decide, it's your life.
          > 16. If you use a board leash, use a helmet too.
          >
          >
          > The above is all pretty standard windsurfing/surfing wave riding
          > stuff and what I've learnt at my expense.
          > The following points are the more specific kite flying/wave riding
          > points I'm not too sure about and probably what need changing most,
          > because they're just theory.
          >
          >
          > 17. Avoid sushi rolls at all costs, this is when you fall into a
          > wave down its face with your lines slack/kite down and the wave
          rolls
          > you in your lines, if the kite powers up or gets dragged down by
          the
          > waves it will not be funny at all. If you're kite is down avoid
          > getting tangled in your lines at all costs. If you do get tangled
          in
          > your lines and things look like they could get nasty, or already
          are,
          > cut your lines as fast as you can. Carry a hook knife.
          > 18. Avoid flying your kite seawards straight in front of you
          > (wave wise) this would mean offshore wind anyway (ideal surfing
          > conditions) so you shouldn't be doing it in the first place,
          because
          > if you and the kite fall and the kite gets submerged by the waves,
          it
          > will be pushed towards you and you will be in the midst of your
          > lines. If you are worried about getting caught in your lines, swim
          > towards/into the waves and crosswise away from where the waves are
          > dragging your lines which will be towards the beach. Dive under a
          > wave so it doesn't sweep you away.
          > 19. Use floating lines and bar. Unless they are actually being
          > swirled in a wave, to avoid the lines you can dive under them if
          all
          > else fails, just be careful not to surface in their midst.
          > 20. To get past a wave that's coming for you when you're on your
          > board, you can jump over it (using your legs to lift your board
          over
          > the wave as you hit it if you don't want to rocket skywards on
          every
          > wave you hit), dive the kite down a bit to build up speed and ride
          > straight through with the nose of your board it if the wave's not
          too
          > big, or if you don't like the look of it, change course and ride
          past
          > it or over a section that hasn't broken yet (remember that it might
          > start breaking by the time you get there) or through the part
          that's
          > already broken. White water and bubbling foam will play havoc with
          > the way your board rides so watch it. If you hit the wave with the
          > edge of the board the wave will grab it a lot more than if you hit
          > with the nose. Use your kite to lift you/jump out of rough
          situations.
          > 21. You can jump a lot higher in waves than in flat water, so
          > watch your landings. When in the air look to see when and where
          > you'll be landing. Landing a high jump with your board flat is the
          > easiest way to break your board or ankles. Use the kite to slow
          your
          > descent, try to land on the back of the board and use your legs as
          > shock absorbers. Be careful if jumping near the shore because the
          > backwash of a wave, especially a big one can drag a lot of water
          off
          > the beach and any left behind may be a lot shallower than you
          think.
          > If you're too close to the beach when landing a jump, kick your
          board
          > off and land on your feet.
          > 22. A low AR kite is a lot easier and faster to relaunch in waves
          > than a high AR kite.
          > 23. On light wind days you can use a floaty directional to surf
          > waves even when you're underpowered.
          >
          >
          > Remember, waves are beautiful graceful creatures but they're not
          your
          > friends and have no qualms about trashing you and/or your gear.
          > Respect them always, they are a lot stronger than you will ever be.
          >
          > Hang loose
          > Jo
        • r a n d y K A T O
          Also, when using the wave face as a sort of ramp for jumping, remember that you really don t need to do anything with the kite, just keep it where it is and
          Message 4 of 21 , Sep 1, 2002
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            Also, when using the wave face as a sort of ramp for jumping, remember
            that you really don't need to do anything with the kite, just keep it
            where it is and you'll be airborne as the water falls away from you. if
            you do want to steer the kite for more air/hangtime, remember not to
            oversteer! you're not on flat water. if you steer it back the same as
            with flat water jumping you could wind up higher than your kite - the
            wave face shoots you upward - then you're in real trouble.


            "Reason holds the helm, but passions are the gales." - J. Adams
          • mrjomacdonald
            Thanks for the input Phil, You mean when you ve fallen and are in the water and waiting to restart it s better to keep the kite flying at the seaward edge of
            Message 5 of 21 , Sep 1, 2002
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              Thanks for the input Phil,
              You mean when you've fallen and are in the water and waiting to
              restart it's better to keep the kite flying at the seaward edge of
              the wind window so the kite pulls you through the waves, and also
              because if you kept it to the shoreward side and a wave pushed you
              towards the beach this would make the lines go slack and luff the
              kite making it fall?
              Jo

              --- In kitesurf@y..., "philflying" <ph.leclair@w...> wrote:
              > Another important advice when surfing on the waves is to
              > automatically try to put the kite in the opposite direction of the
              > waves if things go wrong (caught by the wave). It will help to get
              > out quickly of the washing machine and also avoid to have the lines
              > slack, with the kite totally depowered and falling into the wave
              with
              > all the nasty situation it may result.
              >
              > Have fun
              > Phil
              >
              >
              > --- In kitesurf@y..., "mrjomacdonald" <mrjomacdonald@v...> wrote:
              > > Wave riding guidelines discussion
              > >
              > > I would like to get some kite wave riding guidelines together for
              > > kiters who want to start playing in the waves.
              > > These are my thought and ideas on the basis of my wave riding +
              > > windsurfing experience. As I don't have any direct experience of
              > > kitesurfing in serious waves, feedback, suggestions, additions,
              > > criticism and words of wisdom from experienced kite flying wave
              > > riders is essential, so people with such experience please say
              your
              > > piece.
              > >
              > > These are my ideas:
              > >
              > > 1. Know your limits. Don't try it in anything bigger than waist
              > > height until you're hot in easier (flat, choppy, hip high waves)
              > > conditions and can fly a kite in your sleep, big waves can hit
              with
              > a
              > > force of more than 3 tons per square foot when they break.
              > > 2. Before you go out, sit on the beach and watch the waves for a
              > > while, especially if you're at a spot you don't know. Remember
              that
              > > from the beach the waves will look smaller than they actually are
              > > when you're out there.
              > > 3. Before going in ask locals for advice, a beach break is a lot
              > > friendlier than a shallow reef break. A wave will break in water
              > > roughly 1.3 times the height of the wave face, so this can give
              you
              > > an idea of how deep the water is. Some reef breaks can actually
              > suck
              > > most of the water away from the wave's path and this can be
              > unnerving
              > > when you're on the wave because it will hurt if you fall. Many
              > great
              > > spots have sharp rocky shores, it's your life and your equipment.
              > > 4. Avoid spots/days with waves that closeout (the whole bar
              > > crashes down simultaneously) especially big closeouts, they are
              > nasty.
              > > 5. Check your equipment, which should be perfect, and warm up
              > > before you go in.
              > > 6. Always try to keep your kite flying and if it does go down
              > > relaunch as quick as you can. Be good at it in flat water before
              > you
              > > try it in waves.
              > > 7. Sideshore, side onshore and side offshore are best for wave
              > > riding, jumping and if there's nothing else, in that order.
              > Straight
              > > onshore is much harder to go out in because the wind and waves
              will
              > > push you back towards the beach all the time, there will probably
              > be
              > > a strong current in the same direction and you will have to kite
              > > upwind right away so only try it if you're powered up.
              > > 8. Unless there's onshore wind, waves usually come in sets of 3-
              > > 5 or more, (in onshore wind it will probably just be a mess), if
              > it's
              > > your first time in serious waves or you're going to try anything
              > > flash, wait for the last wave of the set to do your thing. This
              way
              > > if you goof it you should (hopefully) have enough time to get
              your
              > > act together before the next set hits you. If you fall on the
              first
              > > wave of a set you'll get pounded by the rest of the set and be
              > wiser
              > > for it. You can jump the waves as you go out and surf them as you
              > > come in.
              > > 9. Don't panic in a wipeout, try to be aware of where your
              > > equipment is, a last look before you go down is good if you get
              the
              > > chance. When you do fall, try to fall over/through the wave and
              not
              > > down its face.
              > > 10. Waves further out to sea are a lot calmer than near the
              > > beach. When starting out from the beach, watch the waves, wait
              for
              > > the calm after a set has finished breaking, then go out quick, if
              > > possible straight out (side shore wind is easiest). Get through
              the
              > > shore break then stay out in the real waves, they're bigger too.
              > > After the shore break (going out) is the impact zone where the
              > bigger
              > > waves break and you don't want to hang around here too long
              either.
              > > Don't get into the shore break again until it's time to come in,
              > > which is before you get tired and start making mistakes. Riding a
              > > wave in is a good way to get back to the beach.
              > >
              > > 11. If a wave is too big for you, run (kite) away from it, he who
              > > turns and kites away rides to surf another wave.
              > > 12. Keep an eye on big waves coming in when you're playing in
              > > their garden. Every once in a while a freak wave can come in
              which
              > is
              > > a lot bigger than the rest and it will probably break earlier
              too.
              > A
              > > wave doesn't have to be really big to hit hard, the thickness and
              > > speed of a wave, as well as the way/how fast it jacks up when it
              > hits
              > > the shallows can turn a smooth ocean roller into a spitting,
              > awesome
              > > tube.
              > > 13. If you don't have any experience with waves, (maybe you kite
              > > on a lake) try surfing them with a surfboard or bodyboard first,
              > this
              > > will give you an idea of how powerful they are and how a board
              can
              > > react in waves.
              > > 14. Respect surfers, they are a lot less manoeuvrable than you
              > > and have been surfing waves for a lot longer too (in Hawaii since
              > the
              > > 15th century).
              > > 15. Some riders wear floatation vests, others don't. A floaty pfd
              > > will mean a wave can get a better hold of you and a wipeout can
              > last
              > > longer, but if you do get knocked unconscious it can save your
              > life.
              > > Try going out in the waves without your kite and try both ways
              then
              > > decide, it's your life.
              > > 16. If you use a board leash, use a helmet too.
              > >
              > >
              > > The above is all pretty standard windsurfing/surfing wave riding
              > > stuff and what I've learnt at my expense.
              > > The following points are the more specific kite flying/wave
              riding
              > > points I'm not too sure about and probably what need changing
              most,
              > > because they're just theory.
              > >
              > >
              > > 17. Avoid sushi rolls at all costs, this is when you fall into a
              > > wave down its face with your lines slack/kite down and the wave
              > rolls
              > > you in your lines, if the kite powers up or gets dragged down by
              > the
              > > waves it will not be funny at all. If you're kite is down avoid
              > > getting tangled in your lines at all costs. If you do get tangled
              > in
              > > your lines and things look like they could get nasty, or already
              > are,
              > > cut your lines as fast as you can. Carry a hook knife.
              > > 18. Avoid flying your kite seawards straight in front of you
              > > (wave wise) this would mean offshore wind anyway (ideal surfing
              > > conditions) so you shouldn't be doing it in the first place,
              > because
              > > if you and the kite fall and the kite gets submerged by the
              waves,
              > it
              > > will be pushed towards you and you will be in the midst of your
              > > lines. If you are worried about getting caught in your lines,
              swim
              > > towards/into the waves and crosswise away from where the waves
              are
              > > dragging your lines which will be towards the beach. Dive under a
              > > wave so it doesn't sweep you away.
              > > 19. Use floating lines and bar. Unless they are actually being
              > > swirled in a wave, to avoid the lines you can dive under them if
              > all
              > > else fails, just be careful not to surface in their midst.
              > > 20. To get past a wave that's coming for you when you're on your
              > > board, you can jump over it (using your legs to lift your board
              > over
              > > the wave as you hit it if you don't want to rocket skywards on
              > every
              > > wave you hit), dive the kite down a bit to build up speed and
              ride
              > > straight through with the nose of your board it if the wave's not
              > too
              > > big, or if you don't like the look of it, change course and ride
              > past
              > > it or over a section that hasn't broken yet (remember that it
              might
              > > start breaking by the time you get there) or through the part
              > that's
              > > already broken. White water and bubbling foam will play havoc
              with
              > > the way your board rides so watch it. If you hit the wave with
              the
              > > edge of the board the wave will grab it a lot more than if you
              hit
              > > with the nose. Use your kite to lift you/jump out of rough
              > situations.
              > > 21. You can jump a lot higher in waves than in flat water, so
              > > watch your landings. When in the air look to see when and where
              > > you'll be landing. Landing a high jump with your board flat is
              the
              > > easiest way to break your board or ankles. Use the kite to slow
              > your
              > > descent, try to land on the back of the board and use your legs
              as
              > > shock absorbers. Be careful if jumping near the shore because the
              > > backwash of a wave, especially a big one can drag a lot of water
              > off
              > > the beach and any left behind may be a lot shallower than you
              > think.
              > > If you're too close to the beach when landing a jump, kick your
              > board
              > > off and land on your feet.
              > > 22. A low AR kite is a lot easier and faster to relaunch in waves
              > > than a high AR kite.
              > > 23. On light wind days you can use a floaty directional to surf
              > > waves even when you're underpowered.
              > >
              > >
              > > Remember, waves are beautiful graceful creatures but they're not
              > your
              > > friends and have no qualms about trashing you and/or your gear.
              > > Respect them always, they are a lot stronger than you will ever
              be.
              > >
              > > Hang loose
              > > Jo
            • mrjomacdonald
              Thanks Randy, Are you sure about that though, can you get higher than your kite if it s high towards zenith and going up, pulling you with it? What sort of
              Message 6 of 21 , Sep 1, 2002
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                Thanks Randy,
                Are you sure about that though, can you get higher than your kite if
                it's high towards zenith and going up, pulling you with it?
                What sort of kite angle do you think is ideal for wave
                jumping/riding, the position where you should keep the kite as you
                said?
                Jo

                --- In kitesurf@y..., r a n d y K A T O <randy@k...> wrote:
                > Also, when using the wave face as a sort of ramp for jumping,
                remember
                > that you really don't need to do anything with the kite, just keep
                it
                > where it is and you'll be airborne as the water falls away from
                you. if
                > you do want to steer the kite for more air/hangtime, remember not
                to
                > oversteer! you're not on flat water. if you steer it back the same
                as
                > with flat water jumping you could wind up higher than your kite -
                the
                > wave face shoots you upward - then you're in real trouble.
                >
                >
                > "Reason holds the helm, but passions are the gales." - J. Adams
              • Dwight & Jacky
                That s a bit silly. Do nothing with the kite, and you ll eat it big time. Kite low, powered, approaching a wave at high speed will send you horizontal when you
                Message 7 of 21 , Sep 1, 2002
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                  That's a bit silly. Do nothing with the kite, and you'll eat it big time.
                  Kite low, powered, approaching a wave at high speed will send you horizontal
                  when you hit the peak. That kite better be in position to lift, not pull
                  horizontal.

                  Dwight



                  > Thanks Randy,
                  > Are you sure about that though, can you get higher than your kite if
                  > it's high towards zenith and going up, pulling you with it?
                  > What sort of kite angle do you think is ideal for wave
                  > jumping/riding, the position where you should keep the kite as you
                  > said?
                  > Jo
                  >
                  > --- In kitesurf@y..., r a n d y K A T O <randy@k...> wrote:
                  > > Also, when using the wave face as a sort of ramp for jumping,
                  > remember
                  > > that you really don't need to do anything with the kite, just keep
                  > it
                  > > where it is and you'll be airborne as the water falls away from
                  > you. if
                  > > you do want to steer the kite for more air/hangtime, remember not
                  > to
                  > > oversteer! you're not on flat water. if you steer it back the same
                  > as
                  > > with flat water jumping you could wind up higher than your kite -
                  > the
                  > > wave face shoots you upward - then you're in real trouble.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > "Reason holds the helm, but passions are the gales." - J. Adams
                  >
                  >
                  > This group is sponsored by KITEHIGH.COM
                  > The original - http://www.KITEHIGH.COM
                  > Kiteboarding Lessons & the USA's largest gear range
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                  >
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                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Peter Traykovski
                  I ve only doen a small amout of ktitng in real waves..we mostly get onshore slop up here..but in my few experiences it seemed to me that in strong winds and
                  Message 8 of 21 , Sep 1, 2002
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                    I've only doen a small amout of ktitng in real waves..we mostly get
                    onshore slop up here..but in my few experiences it seemed to me that in
                    strong winds and serious waves if you are down and are about to get
                    worked hard by alot white water pointing your kite offshore wasn't
                    nessarily the best thing to do... It seemed doing that would load up the
                    lines really hard (maybe breaking things) and then i would shoot out the
                    other side when released..all a bit out of control. If I pointed the
                    kite toward the beach I would drag with the wave and forces would be
                    much lower and I would get to the inside so as not to be a sitting duck
                    for the next wave. Obviously if the wind is light and you worried about
                    the kite falling out of the sky keep it offshore..what do you guys who
                    have more experiience riding waves think???

                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >>Thanks Randy,
                    >>Are you sure about that though, can you get higher than your kite if
                    >>it's high towards zenith and going up, pulling you with it?
                    >>What sort of kite angle do you think is ideal for wave
                    >>jumping/riding, the position where you should keep the kite as you
                    >>said?
                    >>Jo
                    >>
                    >>--- In kitesurf@y..., r a n d y K A T O <randy@k...> wrote:
                    >>
                    >>>Also, when using the wave face as a sort of ramp for jumping,
                    >>>
                    >>remember
                    >>
                    >>>that you really don't need to do anything with the kite, just keep
                    >>>
                    >>it
                    >>
                    >>>where it is and you'll be airborne as the water falls away from
                    >>>
                    >>you. if
                    >>
                    >>>you do want to steer the kite for more air/hangtime, remember not
                    >>>
                    >>to
                    >>
                    >>>oversteer! you're not on flat water. if you steer it back the same
                    >>>
                    >>as
                    >>
                    >>>with flat water jumping you could wind up higher than your kite -
                    >>>
                    >>the
                    >>
                    >>>wave face shoots you upward - then you're in real trouble.
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>"Reason holds the helm, but passions are the gales." - J. Adams
                    >>>
                    >>
                    >>This group is sponsored by KITEHIGH.COM
                    >>The original - http://www.KITEHIGH.COM
                    >>Kiteboarding Lessons & the USA's largest gear range
                    >>COMPLETE packages from $879 up
                    >>P: 1 866 646 7835 TOLL FREE
                    >>E: info@...
                    >>
                    >>to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                    >>
                    >>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >This group is sponsored by KITEHIGH.COM
                    >The original - http://www.KITEHIGH.COM
                    >Kiteboarding Lessons & the USA's largest gear range
                    >COMPLETE packages from $879 up
                    >P: 1 866 646 7835 TOLL FREE
                    >E: info@...
                    >
                    >to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                    >
                    >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    >
                    >



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • r a n d y K A T O
                    right. i should have been more clear. with the kite up at 45 degrees or higher, preferably around 60 or 70 degrees, where it s pulling more vertical than
                    Message 9 of 21 , Sep 1, 2002
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                      right. i should have been more clear. with the kite up at 45 degrees or
                      higher, preferably around 60 or 70 degrees, where it's pulling more
                      vertical than horizontal, go up a wave/swell and you'll be floating off
                      the top. similar to the way you can jump with the kite in this position
                      by loading up the board and doing an ollie without steering the kite up
                      and back, only the wave acts as a ramp so instead of an ollie, you just
                      ride off the top.


                      On Sunday, Sep 1, 2002, at 14:57 US/Eastern, Dwight & Jacky wrote:

                      > That's a bit silly. Do nothing with the kite, and you'll eat it big
                      > time.
                      > Kite low, powered, approaching a wave at high speed will send you
                      > horizontal
                      > when you hit the peak. That kite better be in position to lift, not
                      > pull
                      > horizontal.
                      >
                      > Dwight
                    • kiteboardingjapan
                      I find the longest jumps of waves come when I keep the kite fairly high and ralley of the wave as I would on flat water. When you do a ralley the kite
                      Message 10 of 21 , Sep 1, 2002
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                        I find the longest jumps of waves come when I keep the kite fairly
                        high and ralley of the wave as I would on flat water. When you do a
                        ralley the kite naturally moves up so the force of you ralley gives
                        you height, and then the kite just raises to neutral and glides. No
                        kite movement required until you land. You can go really big but
                        safely, and land really soft.

                        Nick

                        --- In kitesurf@y..., "mrjomacdonald" <mrjomacdonald@v...> wrote:
                        > Thanks Randy,
                        > Are you sure about that though, can you get higher than your kite
                        if
                        > it's high towards zenith and going up, pulling you with it?
                        > What sort of kite angle do you think is ideal for wave
                        > jumping/riding, the position where you should keep the kite as you
                        > said?
                        > Jo
                        >
                        > --- In kitesurf@y..., r a n d y K A T O <randy@k...> wrote:
                        > > Also, when using the wave face as a sort of ramp for jumping,
                        > remember
                        > > that you really don't need to do anything with the kite, just
                        keep
                        > it
                        > > where it is and you'll be airborne as the water falls away from
                        > you. if
                        > > you do want to steer the kite for more air/hangtime, remember not
                        > to
                        > > oversteer! you're not on flat water. if you steer it back the
                        same
                        > as
                        > > with flat water jumping you could wind up higher than your kite -
                        > the
                        > > wave face shoots you upward - then you're in real trouble.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > "Reason holds the helm, but passions are the gales." - J. Adams
                      • Decay
                        Most good riders here use a longer board/smaller kite in waves than what they would in the same wind on flat water - this allows them to ride the shoulder
                        Message 11 of 21 , Sep 1, 2002
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                          Most good riders here use a longer board/smaller kite in waves than what
                          they would in the same wind on flat water - this allows them to ride the
                          shoulder without getting overpower and dragged onto the flats.

                          I quite like 20m lines in surf, it makes for quicker direction changes.

                          Decay

                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: kiteboardingjapan <nick@...>
                          To: <kitesurf@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2002 11:33 PM
                          Subject: [ksurf] Re: Wave riding guidelines discussion


                          > Good list.
                          >
                          > I'd add, if your going out in bigger stuff (head high or more), make
                          > sure you are nicely powered up. Best to be slightly overpowered than
                          > under. There's nothing worse (or more dangerous) than loosing power
                          > just when you need it most. Also, (and I'd like someone here to
                          > explain why) the wind in front of a wave is much stronger. So when
                          > you are regularly powered, and drop down into a wave, you'll find
                          > you'll have a lot more power. This means that if you're maxed out
                          > going into a wave, you'll be overpowered when you drop into it.
                          >
                          > Nick
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In kitesurf@y..., "mrjomacdonald" <mrjomacdonald@v...> wrote:
                          > > Wave riding guidelines discussion
                          > >
                          > > I would like to get some kite wave riding guidelines together for
                          > > kiters who want to start playing in the waves.
                          > > These are my thought and ideas on the basis of my wave riding +
                          > > windsurfing experience. As I don't have any direct experience of
                          > > kitesurfing in serious waves, feedback, suggestions, additions,
                          > > criticism and words of wisdom from experienced kite flying wave
                          > > riders is essential, so people with such experience please say your
                          > > piece.
                          > >
                          > > These are my ideas:
                          > >
                          > > 1. Know your limits. Don't try it in anything bigger than
                          > waist
                          > > height until you're hot in easier (flat, choppy, hip high waves)
                          > > conditions and can fly a kite in your sleep, big waves can hit with
                          > a
                          > > force of more than 3 tons per square foot when they break.
                          > > 2. Before you go out, sit on the beach and watch the waves for
                          > a
                          > > while, especially if you're at a spot you don't know. Remember that
                          > > from the beach the waves will look smaller than they actually are
                          > > when you're out there.
                          > > 3. Before going in ask locals for advice, a beach break is a
                          > lot
                          > > friendlier than a shallow reef break. A wave will break in water
                          > > roughly 1.3 times the height of the wave face, so this can give you
                          > > an idea of how deep the water is. Some reef breaks can actually
                          > suck
                          > > most of the water away from the wave's path and this can be
                          > unnerving
                          > > when you're on the wave because it will hurt if you fall. Many
                          > great
                          > > spots have sharp rocky shores, it's your life and your equipment.
                          > > 4. Avoid spots/days with waves that closeout (the whole bar
                          > > crashes down simultaneously) especially big closeouts, they are
                          > nasty.
                          > > 5. Check your equipment, which should be perfect, and warm up
                          > > before you go in.
                          > > 6. Always try to keep your kite flying and if it does go down
                          > > relaunch as quick as you can. Be good at it in flat water before
                          > you
                          > > try it in waves.
                          > > 7. Sideshore, side onshore and side offshore are best for wave
                          > > riding, jumping and if there's nothing else, in that order.
                          > Straight
                          > > onshore is much harder to go out in because the wind and waves will
                          > > push you back towards the beach all the time, there will probably
                          > be
                          > > a strong current in the same direction and you will have to kite
                          > > upwind right away so only try it if you're powered up.
                          > > 8. Unless there's onshore wind, waves usually come in sets of
                          > 3-
                          > > 5 or more, (in onshore wind it will probably just be a mess), if
                          > it's
                          > > your first time in serious waves or you're going to try anything
                          > > flash, wait for the last wave of the set to do your thing. This way
                          > > if you goof it you should (hopefully) have enough time to get your
                          > > act together before the next set hits you. If you fall on the first
                          > > wave of a set you'll get pounded by the rest of the set and be
                          > wiser
                          > > for it. You can jump the waves as you go out and surf them as you
                          > > come in.
                          > > 9. Don't panic in a wipeout, try to be aware of where your
                          > > equipment is, a last look before you go down is good if you get the
                          > > chance. When you do fall, try to fall over/through the wave and not
                          > > down its face.
                          > > 10. Waves further out to sea are a lot calmer than near the
                          > > beach. When starting out from the beach, watch the waves, wait for
                          > > the calm after a set has finished breaking, then go out quick, if
                          > > possible straight out (side shore wind is easiest). Get through the
                          > > shore break then stay out in the real waves, they're bigger too.
                          > > After the shore break (going out) is the impact zone where the
                          > bigger
                          > > waves break and you don't want to hang around here too long either.
                          > > Don't get into the shore break again until it's time to come in,
                          > > which is before you get tired and start making mistakes. Riding a
                          > > wave in is a good way to get back to the beach.
                          > >
                          > > 11. If a wave is too big for you, run (kite) away from it, he
                          > who
                          > > turns and kites away rides to surf another wave.
                          > > 12. Keep an eye on big waves coming in when you're playing in
                          > > their garden. Every once in a while a freak wave can come in which
                          > is
                          > > a lot bigger than the rest and it will probably break earlier too.
                          > A
                          > > wave doesn't have to be really big to hit hard, the thickness and
                          > > speed of a wave, as well as the way/how fast it jacks up when it
                          > hits
                          > > the shallows can turn a smooth ocean roller into a spitting,
                          > awesome
                          > > tube.
                          > > 13. If you don't have any experience with waves, (maybe you
                          > kite
                          > > on a lake) try surfing them with a surfboard or bodyboard first,
                          > this
                          > > will give you an idea of how powerful they are and how a board can
                          > > react in waves.
                          > > 14. Respect surfers, they are a lot less manoeuvrable than you
                          > > and have been surfing waves for a lot longer too (in Hawaii since
                          > the
                          > > 15th century).
                          > > 15. Some riders wear floatation vests, others don't. A floaty
                          > pfd
                          > > will mean a wave can get a better hold of you and a wipeout can
                          > last
                          > > longer, but if you do get knocked unconscious it can save your
                          > life.
                          > > Try going out in the waves without your kite and try both ways then
                          > > decide, it's your life.
                          > > 16. If you use a board leash, use a helmet too.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > The above is all pretty standard windsurfing/surfing wave riding
                          > > stuff and what I've learnt at my expense.
                          > > The following points are the more specific kite flying/wave riding
                          > > points I'm not too sure about and probably what need changing most,
                          > > because they're just theory.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > 17. Avoid sushi rolls at all costs, this is when you fall into
                          > a
                          > > wave down its face with your lines slack/kite down and the wave
                          > rolls
                          > > you in your lines, if the kite powers up or gets dragged down by
                          > the
                          > > waves it will not be funny at all. If you're kite is down avoid
                          > > getting tangled in your lines at all costs. If you do get tangled
                          > in
                          > > your lines and things look like they could get nasty, or already
                          > are,
                          > > cut your lines as fast as you can. Carry a hook knife.
                          > > 18. Avoid flying your kite seawards straight in front of you
                          > > (wave wise) this would mean offshore wind anyway (ideal surfing
                          > > conditions) so you shouldn't be doing it in the first place,
                          > because
                          > > if you and the kite fall and the kite gets submerged by the waves,
                          > it
                          > > will be pushed towards you and you will be in the midst of your
                          > > lines. If you are worried about getting caught in your lines, swim
                          > > towards/into the waves and crosswise away from where the waves are
                          > > dragging your lines which will be towards the beach. Dive under a
                          > > wave so it doesn't sweep you away.
                          > > 19. Use floating lines and bar. Unless they are actually being
                          > > swirled in a wave, to avoid the lines you can dive under them if
                          > all
                          > > else fails, just be careful not to surface in their midst.
                          > > 20. To get past a wave that's coming for you when you're on
                          > your
                          > > board, you can jump over it (using your legs to lift your board
                          > over
                          > > the wave as you hit it if you don't want to rocket skywards on
                          > every
                          > > wave you hit), dive the kite down a bit to build up speed and ride
                          > > straight through with the nose of your board it if the wave's not
                          > too
                          > > big, or if you don't like the look of it, change course and ride
                          > past
                          > > it or over a section that hasn't broken yet (remember that it might
                          > > start breaking by the time you get there) or through the part
                          > that's
                          > > already broken. White water and bubbling foam will play havoc with
                          > > the way your board rides so watch it. If you hit the wave with the
                          > > edge of the board the wave will grab it a lot more than if you hit
                          > > with the nose. Use your kite to lift you/jump out of rough
                          > situations.
                          > > 21. You can jump a lot higher in waves than in flat water, so
                          > > watch your landings. When in the air look to see when and where
                          > > you'll be landing. Landing a high jump with your board flat is the
                          > > easiest way to break your board or ankles. Use the kite to slow
                          > your
                          > > descent, try to land on the back of the board and use your legs as
                          > > shock absorbers. Be careful if jumping near the shore because the
                          > > backwash of a wave, especially a big one can drag a lot of water
                          > off
                          > > the beach and any left behind may be a lot shallower than you
                          > think.
                          > > If you're too close to the beach when landing a jump, kick your
                          > board
                          > > off and land on your feet.
                          > > 22. A low AR kite is a lot easier and faster to relaunch in
                          > waves
                          > > than a high AR kite.
                          > > 23. On light wind days you can use a floaty directional to surf
                          > > waves even when you're underpowered.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Remember, waves are beautiful graceful creatures but they're not
                          > your
                          > > friends and have no qualms about trashing you and/or your gear.
                          > > Respect them always, they are a lot stronger than you will ever be.
                          > >
                          > > Hang loose
                          > > Jo
                          >
                          >
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                        • r a n d y K A T O
                          well, that s the most extreme scenario - you higher than the kite, but it is possible (i ve seen it). when jumping on flat water by steering the kite up and
                          Message 12 of 21 , Sep 1, 2002
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                            well, that's the most extreme scenario - you higher than the kite, but
                            it is possible (i've seen it). when jumping on flat water by steering
                            the kite up and back past zenith it's easy enough to wait too long to
                            steer the kite back forward and wind up with the pendulum effect. when
                            you do this in the waves, especially if you're taking off from the face
                            of a wave that can shoot you up vertically, the combination can put you
                            and your kite at pretty similar heights which can have some scary
                            consequences.

                            if you're used to jumping off flat water, you get a feel for where the
                            kite is by how the lines are pulling, but if you're leaned back as you
                            ride up a wave face, what feels like 12 o'clock may actually be 11 or
                            even 10 (on a starboard tack). so if you normally start to steer the
                            kite back forward once it reaches 11 o'clock, your kite may actually be
                            approaching 9 o'clock by the time you react - 9 o'clock means you and
                            the kite are at the same height.

                            it's hard to explain without visual aids, but i hope this makes sense.
                            i guess the main thing is that for the most part you want the kite in
                            the same positions as with flat water riding/jumping (which can be just
                            about anywhere depending on what you're trying to achieve), but be
                            aware that in the waves YOU are also being raised, lowered, and pushed
                            by the water so that will influence your position in relation to the
                            kite and vice versa.

                            On Sunday, Sep 1, 2002, at 14:45 US/Eastern, mrjomacdonald wrote:

                            > Thanks Randy,
                            > Are you sure about that though, can you get higher than your kite if
                            > it's high towards zenith and going up, pulling you with it?
                            > What sort of kite angle do you think is ideal for wave
                            > jumping/riding, the position where you should keep the kite as you
                            > said?
                            > Jo
                          • Stefano Rosso
                            ALWAYS point the kite into the waves... otherwise you wil ldrop your kite... 1 good wave can luff your kite in seconds as you tumble with it !
                            Message 13 of 21 , Sep 2, 2002
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                              ALWAYS point the kite into the waves... otherwise you wil ldrop your kite... 1
                              good wave can luff your kite in seconds as you tumble with it !

                              > I've only doen a small amout of ktitng in real waves..we mostly get
                              > onshore slop up here..but in my few experiences it seemed to me that in
                              > strong winds and serious waves if you are down and are about to get
                              > worked hard by alot white water pointing your kite offshore wasn't
                              > nessarily the best thing to do... It seemed doing that would load up the
                              > lines really hard (maybe breaking things) and then i would shoot out the
                              > other side when released..all a bit out of control. If I pointed the
                              > kite toward the beach I would drag with the wave and forces would be
                              > much lower and I would get to the inside so as not to be a sitting duck
                              > for the next wave. Obviously if the wind is light and you worried about
                              > the kite falling out of the sky keep it offshore..what do you guys who
                              > have more experiience riding waves think???
                            • gorgekiteboarder
                              No question about it, Stefano is correct. NEVER point your kite towards the shore if you re going to get worked by a wave. It could easily fall out of the
                              Message 14 of 21 , Sep 2, 2002
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                                No question about it, Stefano is correct. NEVER point your kite
                                towards the shore if you're going to get worked by a wave. It could
                                easily fall out of the sky, and you could end up getting "hog tied"
                                in your lines as the surf tumbles you arround - very bad situation!
                                You should develop an instinct to immediately send your kite out to
                                sea whenever you crash in the surf.

                                Spencer

                                --- In kitesurf@y..., Stefano Rosso <stefano@o...> wrote:
                                > ALWAYS point the kite into the waves... otherwise you wil ldrop
                                your kite... 1
                                > good wave can luff your kite in seconds as you tumble with it !
                                >
                                > > I've only doen a small amout of ktitng in real waves..we mostly
                                get
                                > > onshore slop up here..but in my few experiences it seemed to me
                                that in
                                > > strong winds and serious waves if you are down and are about to
                                get
                                > > worked hard by alot white water pointing your kite offshore
                                wasn't
                                > > nessarily the best thing to do... It seemed doing that would
                                load up the
                                > > lines really hard (maybe breaking things) and then i would shoot
                                out the
                                > > other side when released..all a bit out of control. If I
                                pointed the
                                > > kite toward the beach I would drag with the wave and forces
                                would be
                                > > much lower and I would get to the inside so as not to be a
                                sitting duck
                                > > for the next wave. Obviously if the wind is light and you
                                worried about
                                > > the kite falling out of the sky keep it offshore..what do you
                                guys who
                                > > have more experiience riding waves think???
                              • mrjomacdonald
                                Thanks for the input Stefano, So you mean if you ve fallen but are still flying the kite, while you re waiting to start off again, keep the kite seawards (wave
                                Message 15 of 21 , Sep 2, 2002
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                                  Thanks for the input Stefano,
                                  So you mean if you've fallen but are still flying the kite, while
                                  you're waiting to start off again, keep the kite seawards (wave
                                  wards) so it pulls you into the waves, because if you keep it
                                  shorewards you will be dragged by the waves, the lines will go slack
                                  and the kite will fall?
                                  Jo


                                  --- In kitesurf@y..., Stefano Rosso <stefano@o...> wrote:
                                  > ALWAYS point the kite into the waves... otherwise you wil ldrop
                                  your kite... 1
                                  > good wave can luff your kite in seconds as you tumble with it !
                                  >
                                  > > I've only doen a small amout of ktitng in real waves..we mostly
                                  get
                                  > > onshore slop up here..but in my few experiences it seemed to me
                                  that in
                                  > > strong winds and serious waves if you are down and are about to
                                  get
                                  > > worked hard by alot white water pointing your kite offshore wasn't
                                  > > nessarily the best thing to do... It seemed doing that would load
                                  up the
                                  > > lines really hard (maybe breaking things) and then i would shoot
                                  out the
                                  > > other side when released..all a bit out of control. If I pointed
                                  the
                                  > > kite toward the beach I would drag with the wave and forces would
                                  be
                                  > > much lower and I would get to the inside so as not to be a
                                  sitting duck
                                  > > for the next wave. Obviously if the wind is light and you worried
                                  about
                                  > > the kite falling out of the sky keep it offshore..what do you
                                  guys who
                                  > > have more experiience riding waves think???
                                • mrjomacdonald
                                  Ok, gottcha guys. Jo ... could ... situation! ... shoot
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Sep 2, 2002
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                                    Ok, gottcha guys.
                                    Jo

                                    --- In kitesurf@y..., "gorgekiteboarder" <gorgekiteboarder@y...>
                                    wrote:
                                    > No question about it, Stefano is correct. NEVER point your kite
                                    > towards the shore if you're going to get worked by a wave. It
                                    could
                                    > easily fall out of the sky, and you could end up getting "hog tied"
                                    > in your lines as the surf tumbles you arround - very bad
                                    situation!
                                    > You should develop an instinct to immediately send your kite out to
                                    > sea whenever you crash in the surf.
                                    >
                                    > Spencer
                                    >
                                    > --- In kitesurf@y..., Stefano Rosso <stefano@o...> wrote:
                                    > > ALWAYS point the kite into the waves... otherwise you wil ldrop
                                    > your kite... 1
                                    > > good wave can luff your kite in seconds as you tumble with it !
                                    > >
                                    > > > I've only doen a small amout of ktitng in real waves..we mostly
                                    > get
                                    > > > onshore slop up here..but in my few experiences it seemed to me
                                    > that in
                                    > > > strong winds and serious waves if you are down and are about to
                                    > get
                                    > > > worked hard by alot white water pointing your kite offshore
                                    > wasn't
                                    > > > nessarily the best thing to do... It seemed doing that would
                                    > load up the
                                    > > > lines really hard (maybe breaking things) and then i would
                                    shoot
                                    > out the
                                    > > > other side when released..all a bit out of control. If I
                                    > pointed the
                                    > > > kite toward the beach I would drag with the wave and forces
                                    > would be
                                    > > > much lower and I would get to the inside so as not to be a
                                    > sitting duck
                                    > > > for the next wave. Obviously if the wind is light and you
                                    > worried about
                                    > > > the kite falling out of the sky keep it offshore..what do you
                                    > guys who
                                    > > > have more experiience riding waves think???
                                  • Stefano Rosso
                                    ... yes... a wave can send you VERY quickly under you kite and then chances of it dropping are huge even with an arc... this is especially important if you are
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Sep 2, 2002
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                                      > Thanks for the input Stefano,
                                      > So you mean if you've fallen but are still flying the kite, while
                                      > you're waiting to start off again, keep the kite seawards (wave
                                      > wards) so it pulls you into the waves, because if you keep it
                                      > shorewards you will be dragged by the waves, the lines will go slack
                                      > and the kite will fall?
                                      > Jo

                                      yes... a wave can send you VERY quickly under you kite and then chances of it
                                      dropping are huge even with an arc...

                                      this is especially important if you are riding onshore winds... in that case
                                      you have to be extra careful because you cant send you kite in the direction
                                      of the waves.. so another solution is to power the kite up just as you
                                      arebout to get hit - this way your lines will be tensioned... basically you
                                      dont want to keep your kite overhead when getting munched on by waves...
                                    • mrjomacdonald
                                      Great I added all that. ... slack ... chances of it ... that case ... direction ... you ... basically you ... waves...
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Sep 2, 2002
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                                        Great I added all that.


                                        --- In kitesurf@y..., Stefano Rosso <stefano@o...> wrote:
                                        > > Thanks for the input Stefano,
                                        > > So you mean if you've fallen but are still flying the kite, while
                                        > > you're waiting to start off again, keep the kite seawards (wave
                                        > > wards) so it pulls you into the waves, because if you keep it
                                        > > shorewards you will be dragged by the waves, the lines will go
                                        slack
                                        > > and the kite will fall?
                                        > > Jo
                                        >
                                        > yes... a wave can send you VERY quickly under you kite and then
                                        chances of it
                                        > dropping are huge even with an arc...
                                        >
                                        > this is especially important if you are riding onshore winds... in
                                        that case
                                        > you have to be extra careful because you cant send you kite in the
                                        direction
                                        > of the waves.. so another solution is to power the kite up just as
                                        you
                                        > arebout to get hit - this way your lines will be tensioned...
                                        basically you
                                        > dont want to keep your kite overhead when getting munched on by
                                        waves...
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