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RE: [ksurf] Re: Poll Result: Do you think kites are too expensive ?

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  • Carlo
    Hi Dave and all, I put the poll up on my site to get a different perspective on things. I know from statistics that there is very little COM s visiting my
    Message 1 of 21 , May 1, 2002
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      Hi Dave and all,

      I put the poll up on my site to get a different perspective on things. I
      know from statistics that there is very little COM's visiting my site. I
      wanted some answers from the people who use kites.

      I asked a question, and people answered the question. If you don't like the
      result, then you shouldn't be reading this thread, or if you don't like the
      fact that people can't afford kites then maybe you shouldn't be selling
      kites. I don't think it's the retailers that puts up the high prices, it's
      manufacturers.

      You can compare kites with yachts, and tv's and houses and cars. But the
      fact remains that kites are too expensive. And don't play the old COM card
      of you should get a better job or earn more money. Anything can be
      expensive. Even when you can afford it. Most people kitesurfing already have
      good jobs and earn good moeny, otherwise they wouldn't be kitesurfers right
      now. If an item is so expensive, that it is expensive to a portion of the
      market that has a high level of income, isn't it pretty obvious what is
      happening?

      I will still buy kites, because I want to kitesurf. This question was posted
      to state the facts. It wasn't aimed at retailers, but maybe at some people
      who manufacture kites and read this list.

      It is posted in a positive note: wake up and smell the coffee. you will
      never be able to sell enough kites, cause most people can't afford the high
      prices. make them a little bit more affordable and you will be able to sell
      more, and people will buy more. If prices don't go down, the kiting industry
      will not collapse. It will just stay an elitist sport, and even less people
      will kitesurf than there are windsurfing.

      At the end of the day, the high prices will not affect the current consumers
      as much as it would the people in the kiting industry. It won't affect me as
      much when prices increases, but it would affect you dave, because you will
      sell even less kites. Less kites = less profit = less money = same
      overheads; which means companies will start closing down. start seeing the
      picture? So all these consumers you are ripping off with 'get a better job'
      will still be kiting when you are with your arse in the streets.

      I hope I didn't cause any sleepless nights to any COM's. hehe. Also Ari, it
      is good to see you get angry.

      Carlo
      www.kitesurf.co.za



      -----Original Message-----
      From: drsurfau [mailto:dave@...]
      Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 2:24 PM
      To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [ksurf] Re: Poll Result: Do you think kites are too expensive?


      Really Carlo, you are naive.

      Why don't you do a poll on whether people on this forum should get paid
      more in their jobs. Or one for lower taxes for kitesurfers, more
      kitesurf beach access or capital punishment for those that deliberately
      abuse kites :-) Pretty predictable results.

      Yes I'm one of those COM guys you seem to take exception to who
      doesn't, (strangely enough), make a fortune out of kitesurfing sales. I
      can tell you where you can make a lot of money though. Try surf
      clothing especially if you have the right brands, 100% markup; try Real
      Estate; property round my area has increased 100% in the past couple of
      years, (I'm glad I had some) but don't try computer sales, approx 10%
      markup, or kitesurf gear, relatively small market compared to just
      about anything else.

      If you feel so strongly about kite pricing Carlo perhaps you should
      hassle whoever is responsible for your exchange rate compared to the US
      dollar. Or start your own kite manufacturing business and find out how
      easy and inexpensive it is to make it big in the kite industry and sell
      LEI kites for half the normal price;-)

      But you are wasting your time whinging about pricing and kitesurf
      retailers in the same breath. I never stated that I believed that kite
      prices were OK. I live in a country where our dollar is about half that
      of the US dollar. I could whinge too as I buy a considerable amount of
      gear for myself. However it's far more productive to just earn some
      more money, (generally outside the kitesurf industry), by working
      harder, smarter or taking an extra job, (or creating one) than
      complaining.

      Get off it Carlo, global market forces control the the pricing and we
      few retailers don't control much of that. I try to give the best prices
      I can for my customers and give free extra service as well.

      BTW, I think you are located in South Africa, you have a kite
      manufacturer or two in your country, fly their kites, they are
      apparently well priced. Or if you want them to make LEI kites get on
      their case.

      Have fun, Dave (Dr Surf Australia) COM

      --- In kitesurf@y..., Carlo <carlo@k...> wrote:
      > Herewith results for the poll on www.kitesurf.co.za: Do you think kites
      are
      > too expensive?
      >
      > So far 65 votes has been registered. Seems like the majority (89%) thinks
      > kites are too expensive. Interesting, since the outcome is quite the
      > opposite to the (mostly COM orientated) response we had on this forum a
      week
      > or so earlier...
      >
      > Yes (86%)
      > No, I can afford it (4%)
      > It doesn't really matter what kites cost, I'll buy it anyway (9%)
      >
      > Carlo
      > carlo@k...
      > http://www.kitesurf.co.za



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    • ariraptis
      You sexist pig!! You make me so-o-oo-o-o- MAD!!!!!! Angry Drunken Ari ... equipment,thats ... swimming,they
      Message 2 of 21 , May 1, 2002
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        You sexist pig!!

        You make me so-o-oo-o-o- MAD!!!!!!

        Angry Drunken Ari





        --- In kitesurf@y..., "throb_list" <captain1@i...> wrote:
        > Oooh.....
        >
        > Looks like a bit of a tantrum thrown by the feminists!!
        >
        > dont worry Ari we understand - bad time of the month!!!
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In kitesurf@y..., "ariraptis" <ariraptis@y...> wrote:
        > > The relationship is that you are using some form of
        equipment,thats
        > > all!
        > > Those other things are much,much more expensive!
        > > A Yacht you could live on might be 100 to 1000 times as much!
        > >
        > > Anyway,you are a rude prick! You are the one that should see a
        > > shrink!!You obviously have some serious problems!You will never
        > enjoy
        > > Kitsurfing,while you are so worried about where it came from,and
        > how
        > > much it cost!Tightass!
        > >
        > > All those that don't like the price of a new ,state of the
        > art,kite,
        > > should look for a second hand bargain.If you want up to date
        > > equipment,be prepared to pay for it.
        > >
        > > Anyway,with new manufacturers coming into the market,and the
        > initial
        > > design stage over,I would expect the prices to fall a bit,or ,at
        > > least not go up!
        > >
        > > To all you Communists and Anarchists,who expect to get things
        > without
        > > anyone making a profit,BAD LUCK!!Take up jogging and
        swimming,they
        > > are free.
        > >
        > > Angry Ari
        > >
        > >
      • gregwalshau
        Hi All. I have an instinctive feeling that the kitesurf hysteria has died down. Everyone was thinking we were going to take over the world and become a
        Message 3 of 21 , May 1, 2002
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          Hi All.

          I have an instinctive feeling that the kitesurf hysteria has died
          down. Everyone was thinking we were going to take over the world and
          become a mainstream sport. My feeling is that it has reached a
          plateau and is coming off the boil. I have no real evidence to
          support this, it's just a feeling.

          I go into kitesurf shops and they have a bunch of inflatables and a
          tiny stock of boards.

          Newsagents have old, out-of-date kitesurf magazines, or no kitesurf
          magazines at all.

          What does everybody else think?

          Greg
        • Henryk Majewski
          I agree that this sport has slow down. I still insist the price is the main reason. Very often I have people approaching me on my local beach and asking how
          Message 4 of 21 , May 1, 2002
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            I agree that this sport has slow down. I still insist the price is the main
            reason.
            Very often I have people approaching me on my local beach and asking how
            much the gear costs.
            My answer A$3000 dollar gives them the shock. And obviously this is not a
            full story.
            You need more than one kite and you have to replace it between 1 and 2
            years.
            There is more and more gear on the secondhand market.
            What I here from my friends it is hard to sell kite gear.
            Kitesurfing is going the same path as windsurfing but I predict decline is
            going be faster.

            Kites are not a rocket science. Materials (excluding MACHs and X2s )
            are commonly used in several other industries. Tooling is not very
            sophisticated.
            They are built in countries where labour contents is relatively cheap.
            IMO there is no justification for such high prices.

            Henryk Majewski
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: gregwalshau <Greg.Walsh@...>
            To: <kitesurf@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 5:52 PM
            Subject: Sport of the month[ksurf] Re: Poll Result: Do you think kites are
            too expensive?


            > Hi All.
            >
            > I have an instinctive feeling that the kitesurf hysteria has died
            > down. Everyone was thinking we were going to take over the world and
            > become a mainstream sport. My feeling is that it has reached a
            > plateau and is coming off the boil. I have no real evidence to
            > support this, it's just a feeling.
            >
            > I go into kitesurf shops and they have a bunch of inflatables and a
            > tiny stock of boards.
            >
            > Newsagents have old, out-of-date kitesurf magazines, or no kitesurf
            > magazines at all.
            >
            > What does everybody else think?
            >
            > Greg
            >
            >
            > <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
            >
          • Suntrax
            Hey Dave (Dr) Guess what! Our newest shipment of Naish kites has come down by about 6%, the manufacturers must be reading this group! ;-) Unfortunately it s
            Message 5 of 21 , May 1, 2002
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              Hey Dave (Dr)

              Guess what! Our newest shipment of Naish kites has come down by about 6%,
              the manufacturers must be reading this group! ;-)

              Unfortunately it's only because our lousy exchange rate has improved, but
              this will make Andy at Kitehigh happier as it pushes up our export prices!

              Kitesurfing is alive and well in Capetown and everybody is complaining about
              the prices of kites and sunglasses and jetskis and televisions and
              windsurfers and motorcars and skateboards and and and and....... but MOSTLY
              A LACK OF WIND!

              Best Regards

              Brian Wilson
              Suntrax
              Tel/fax 027 21 5560044
              cell; 0824656696
              www.suntrax.co.za
              suntrax@...

              -----Original Message-----
              From: drsurfau [mailto:dave@...]
              Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 2:24 PM
              To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [ksurf] Re: Poll Result: Do you think kites are too expensive?


              Really Carlo, you are naive.

              Why don't you do a poll on whether people on this forum should get paid
              more in their jobs. Or one for lower taxes for kitesurfers, more
              kitesurf beach access or capital punishment for those that deliberately
              abuse kites :-) Pretty predictable results.

              Yes I'm one of those COM guys you seem to take exception to who
              doesn't, (strangely enough), make a fortune out of kitesurfing sales. I
              can tell you where you can make a lot of money though. Try surf
              clothing especially if you have the right brands, 100% markup; try Real
              Estate; property round my area has increased 100% in the past couple of
              years, (I'm glad I had some) but don't try computer sales, approx 10%
              markup, or kitesurf gear, relatively small market compared to just
              about anything else.

              If you feel so strongly about kite pricing Carlo perhaps you should
              hassle whoever is responsible for your exchange rate compared to the US
              dollar. Or start your own kite manufacturing business and find out how
              easy and inexpensive it is to make it big in the kite industry and sell
              LEI kites for half the normal price;-)

              But you are wasting your time whinging about pricing and kitesurf
              retailers in the same breath. I never stated that I believed that kite
              prices were OK. I live in a country where our dollar is about half that
              of the US dollar. I could whinge too as I buy a considerable amount of
              gear for myself. However it's far more productive to just earn some
              more money, (generally outside the kitesurf industry), by working
              harder, smarter or taking an extra job, (or creating one) than
              complaining.

              Get off it Carlo, global market forces control the the pricing and we
              few retailers don't control much of that. I try to give the best prices
              I can for my customers and give free extra service as well.

              BTW, I think you are located in South Africa, you have a kite
              manufacturer or two in your country, fly their kites, they are
              apparently well priced. Or if you want them to make LEI kites get on
              their case.

              Have fun, Dave (Dr Surf Australia) COM
            • seancmurph@aol.com
              In a message dated 5/1/2002 12:31:12 AM Central Daylight Time, ... I miss TOdd, at least he was humorous while being obnoxious... Sean [Non-text portions of
              Message 6 of 21 , May 1, 2002
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                In a message dated 5/1/2002 12:31:12 AM Central Daylight Time,
                ariraptis@... writes:


                > Angry Ari
                >
                >

                I miss TOdd, at least he was humorous while being obnoxious...

                Sean


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • drsurfau
                Touché :-)My sentiments exactly.BTW, I went and priced an island today. You know the type, warm, windy, lots of scantily clad women on endless sandy
                Message 7 of 21 , May 1, 2002
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                  Touché :-)

                  My sentiments exactly.

                  BTW, I went and priced an island today. You know the type, warm, windy,
                  lots of scantily clad women on endless sandy beaches and no kitesurf
                  restrictions etc.

                  Well I was outraged, islands are sooo expensive! I reckon it's reached
                  the point where only the rich can afford to buy them. Someone should do
                  something about it! Are you listening Carlo, Henryk?? How about a poll?
                  That'll fix it!

                  Moral of the story, kites are cheap compared to islands, expensive
                  compared to your average potato. Half the world doesn't even have
                  access to clean water and yet some on this group complain about the
                  price of everything?!!

                  Get your priorities right, go have a kitesurf.

                  Now at the moment in Australia wind is scarce, I'll pay, but not too
                  much. Any offers of cheap wind?? Anyone?? :-)

                  Go on have fun, everyone on this group is fucking privileged to do this
                  sport!!

                  Dave (Dr Surf Australia) COM

                  --- In kitesurf@y..., "Suntrax" <Suntrax@i...> wrote:
                  > Hey Dave (Dr)
                  >
                  > Guess what! Our newest shipment of Naish kites has come down by about 6%,=

                  > the manufacturers must be reading this group! ;-)
                  >
                  > Unfortunately it's only because our lousy exchange rate has improved, but=

                  > this will make Andy at Kitehigh happier as it pushes up our export prices=
                  !
                  >
                  > Kitesurfing is alive and well in Capetown and everybody is complaining ab=
                  out
                  > the prices of kites and sunglasses and jetskis and televisions and
                  > windsurfers and motorcars and skateboards and and and and....... but MOST=
                  LY
                  > A LACK OF WIND!
                  >
                  > Best Regards
                  >
                  > Brian Wilson
                  > Suntrax
                  > Tel/fax 027 21 5560044
                  > cell; 0824656696
                  > www.suntrax.co.za
                  > suntrax@i...
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: drsurfau [mailto:dave@m...]
                  > Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 2:24 PM
                  > To: kitesurf@y...
                  > Subject: [ksurf] Re: Poll Result: Do you think kites are too expensive?
                  >
                  >
                  > Really Carlo, you are naive.
                  >
                  > Why don't you do a poll on whether people on this forum should get paid
                  > more in their jobs. Or one for lower taxes for kitesurfers, more
                  > kitesurf beach access or capital punishment for those that deliberately
                  > abuse kites :-) Pretty predictable results.
                  >
                  > Yes I'm one of those COM guys you seem to take exception to who
                  > doesn't, (strangely enough), make a fortune out of kitesurfing sales. I
                  > can tell you where you can make a lot of money though. Try surf
                  > clothing especially if you have the right brands, 100% markup; try Real
                  > Estate; property round my area has increased 100% in the past couple of
                  > years, (I'm glad I had some) but don't try computer sales, approx 10%
                  > markup, or kitesurf gear, relatively small market compared to just
                  > about anything else.
                  >
                  > If you feel so strongly about kite pricing Carlo perhaps you should
                  > hassle whoever is responsible for your exchange rate compared to the US
                  > dollar. Or start your own kite manufacturing business and find out how
                  > easy and inexpensive it is to make it big in the kite industry and sell
                  > LEI kites for half the normal price;-)
                  >
                  > But you are wasting your time whinging about pricing and kitesurf
                  > retailers in the same breath. I never stated that I believed that kite
                  > prices were OK. I live in a country where our dollar is about half that
                  > of the US dollar. I could whinge too as I buy a considerable amount of
                  > gear for myself. However it's far more productive to just earn some
                  > more money, (generally outside the kitesurf industry), by working
                  > harder, smarter or taking an extra job, (or creating one) than
                  > complaining.
                  >
                  > Get off it Carlo, global market forces control the the pricing and we
                  > few retailers don't control much of that. I try to give the best prices
                  > I can for my customers and give free extra service as well.
                  >
                  > BTW, I think you are located in South Africa, you have a kite
                  > manufacturer or two in your country, fly their kites, they are
                  > apparently well priced. Or if you want them to make LEI kites get on
                  > their case.
                  >
                  > Have fun, Dave (Dr Surf Australia) COM
                • Rodney Lawrence
                  I tell ya what I ll put some of my wind in a bottle from perth WA but it will coast ya $$$$$ Cool post though its so true aswell. I just wish my $1000 630 arc
                  Message 8 of 21 , May 1, 2002
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                    I tell ya what I'll put some of my wind in a bottle from perth WA but it
                    will coast ya $$$$$
                    Cool post though its so true aswell. I just wish my $1000 630 arc was a
                    $1500 1120. Just so I could go for a surf the winds here have been on
                    holiday aswell.

                    Rod

                    LET US ALL PREY TO THE WIND GOD!!
                    http://www.perth-kiteboarding.tk/
                    ARCS & F-ARCS
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "drsurfau" <dave@...>
                    To: <kitesurf@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 10:10 PM
                    Subject: Sport of the month[ksurf] Re: Poll Result: Do you think kites are
                    too expensive?


                    Touché :-)

                    My sentiments exactly.

                    BTW, I went and priced an island today. You know the type, warm, windy,
                    lots of scantily clad women on endless sandy beaches and no kitesurf
                    restrictions etc.

                    Well I was outraged, islands are sooo expensive! I reckon it's reached
                    the point where only the rich can afford to buy them. Someone should do
                    something about it! Are you listening Carlo, Henryk?? How about a poll?
                    That'll fix it!

                    Moral of the story, kites are cheap compared to islands, expensive
                    compared to your average potato. Half the world doesn't even have
                    access to clean water and yet some on this group complain about the
                    price of everything?!!

                    Get your priorities right, go have a kitesurf.

                    Now at the moment in Australia wind is scarce, I'll pay, but not too
                    much. Any offers of cheap wind?? Anyone?? :-)

                    Go on have fun, everyone on this group is fucking privileged to do this
                    sport!!

                    Dave (Dr Surf Australia) COM

                    --- In kitesurf@y..., "Suntrax" <Suntrax@i...> wrote:
                    > Hey Dave (Dr)
                    >
                    > Guess what! Our newest shipment of Naish kites has come down by about 6%,=

                    > the manufacturers must be reading this group! ;-)
                    >
                    > Unfortunately it's only because our lousy exchange rate has improved, but=

                    > this will make Andy at Kitehigh happier as it pushes up our export prices=
                    !
                    >
                    > Kitesurfing is alive and well in Capetown and everybody is complaining ab=
                    out
                    > the prices of kites and sunglasses and jetskis and televisions and
                    > windsurfers and motorcars and skateboards and and and and....... but MOST=
                    LY
                    > A LACK OF WIND!
                    >
                    > Best Regards
                    >
                    > Brian Wilson
                    > Suntrax
                    > Tel/fax 027 21 5560044
                    > cell; 0824656696
                    > www.suntrax.co.za
                    > suntrax@i...
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: drsurfau [mailto:dave@m...]
                    > Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 2:24 PM
                    > To: kitesurf@y...
                    > Subject: [ksurf] Re: Poll Result: Do you think kites are too expensive?
                    >
                    >
                    > Really Carlo, you are naive.
                    >
                    > Why don't you do a poll on whether people on this forum should get paid
                    > more in their jobs. Or one for lower taxes for kitesurfers, more
                    > kitesurf beach access or capital punishment for those that deliberately
                    > abuse kites :-) Pretty predictable results.
                    >
                    > Yes I'm one of those COM guys you seem to take exception to who
                    > doesn't, (strangely enough), make a fortune out of kitesurfing sales. I
                    > can tell you where you can make a lot of money though. Try surf
                    > clothing especially if you have the right brands, 100% markup; try Real
                    > Estate; property round my area has increased 100% in the past couple of
                    > years, (I'm glad I had some) but don't try computer sales, approx 10%
                    > markup, or kitesurf gear, relatively small market compared to just
                    > about anything else.
                    >
                    > If you feel so strongly about kite pricing Carlo perhaps you should
                    > hassle whoever is responsible for your exchange rate compared to the US
                    > dollar. Or start your own kite manufacturing business and find out how
                    > easy and inexpensive it is to make it big in the kite industry and sell
                    > LEI kites for half the normal price;-)
                    >
                    > But you are wasting your time whinging about pricing and kitesurf
                    > retailers in the same breath. I never stated that I believed that kite
                    > prices were OK. I live in a country where our dollar is about half that
                    > of the US dollar. I could whinge too as I buy a considerable amount of
                    > gear for myself. However it's far more productive to just earn some
                    > more money, (generally outside the kitesurf industry), by working
                    > harder, smarter or taking an extra job, (or creating one) than
                    > complaining.
                    >
                    > Get off it Carlo, global market forces control the the pricing and we
                    > few retailers don't control much of that. I try to give the best prices
                    > I can for my customers and give free extra service as well.
                    >
                    > BTW, I think you are located in South Africa, you have a kite
                    > manufacturer or two in your country, fly their kites, they are
                    > apparently well priced. Or if you want them to make LEI kites get on
                    > their case.
                    >
                    > Have fun, Dave (Dr Surf Australia) COM



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                  • Marc Munzer
                    ... There is also the little fact that if you sell a kite cheaper than other kites then people think that there is something wrong with it and won t buy it...
                    Message 9 of 21 , May 1, 2002
                    • 0 Attachment
                      >you go out of buisiness. I bet you alot of the kite companys that
                      >are currently making LEI's started because they thought they could
                      >make competitive lei's at a cheaper price. There isn't a single
                      >company do this, ask yourself why? If they could of course they
                      >would they'd have a huge market share instantly...

                      There is also the little fact that if you sell a kite cheaper than other
                      kites then people think that there is something wrong with it and won't buy
                      it... People complain about high prices but then don't support
                      manufacturers who make an effort to drop their prices. Ask yourself if you
                      went into your local surf shop and saw a Naish for 1000 and a new brand for
                      500, which one would you buy... I would say 90% of people would go for the
                      Naish because its obviously better because it is so much more expensive...

                      In any case, I don't think that prices will come down for a while. There
                      are too many companies on the market at the moment and nobody is making any
                      money because they all have high overheads and no turnover. Wait a couple
                      of years when half of the companies disappear, then the remaining companies
                      will have more sales and they can start dropping their prices. The same
                      goes for retailers, if you have 10 different retailers in your area all
                      selling different brands then they will all make a little bit of money.
                      Whereas if you had only 1 then the retailer could live with making less
                      money on each kite because he is selling more.

                      Regards,

                      Marc
                      GoExtreme.dk
                    • Carlo
                      ... Well said! This is exactly what this whole discussion is about. We are being ripped off.
                      Message 10 of 21 , May 1, 2002
                      • 0 Attachment
                        >Kites are not a rocket science. Materials (excluding MACHs and X2s )
                        >are commonly used in several other industries. Tooling is not very
                        >sophisticated.
                        >They are built in countries where labour contents is relatively cheap.
                        >IMO there is no justification for such high prices.
                        >
                        >Henryk Majewski

                        Well said! This is exactly what this whole discussion is about. We are being
                        ripped off.
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