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RE: [ksurf] Re: Poll Result: Do you think kites are too expensive ?

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  • Marc Lagesse (Sharp Systems)
    What s with all the hostility towards Carlo. Don t be so sensitive. It was a simple question? Unless you enjoy spending money, I sure we would all like to see
    Message 1 of 21 , Apr 30, 2002
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      What's with all the hostility towards Carlo. Don't be so sensitive. It was a
      simple question?
      Unless you enjoy spending money, I sure we would all like to see the cost
      come down. However, kiting is a great sport and those who want to do it will
      make a plan to get the kit.
      If kiting wants to grow it should become more affordable. Just remember why
      windsurfing died!

      Chill out and put some of your agro into your next move....

      Marc Lagesse
      083 462 8315
      http://www.sharpsystems.co.za


      -----Original Message-----
      From: drsurfau [mailto:dave@...]
      Sent: 30 April 2002 14:24
      To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [ksurf] Re: Poll Result: Do you think kites are too expensive?


      Really Carlo, you are naive.

      Why don't you do a poll on whether people on this forum should get paid
      more in their jobs. Or one for lower taxes for kitesurfers, more
      kitesurf beach access or capital punishment for those that deliberately
      abuse kites :-) Pretty predictable results.

      Yes I'm one of those COM guys you seem to take exception to who
      doesn't, (strangely enough), make a fortune out of kitesurfing sales. I
      can tell you where you can make a lot of money though. Try surf
      clothing especially if you have the right brands, 100% markup; try Real
      Estate; property round my area has increased 100% in the past couple of
      years, (I'm glad I had some) but don't try computer sales, approx 10%
      markup, or kitesurf gear, relatively small market compared to just
      about anything else.

      If you feel so strongly about kite pricing Carlo perhaps you should
      hassle whoever is responsible for your exchange rate compared to the US
      dollar. Or start your own kite manufacturing business and find out how
      easy and inexpensive it is to make it big in the kite industry and sell
      LEI kites for half the normal price;-)

      But you are wasting your time whinging about pricing and kitesurf
      retailers in the same breath. I never stated that I believed that kite
      prices were OK. I live in a country where our dollar is about half that
      of the US dollar. I could whinge too as I buy a considerable amount of
      gear for myself. However it's far more productive to just earn some
      more money, (generally outside the kitesurf industry), by working
      harder, smarter or taking an extra job, (or creating one) than
      complaining.

      Get off it Carlo, global market forces control the the pricing and we
      few retailers don't control much of that. I try to give the best prices
      I can for my customers and give free extra service as well.

      BTW, I think you are located in South Africa, you have a kite
      manufacturer or two in your country, fly their kites, they are
      apparently well priced. Or if you want them to make LEI kites get on
      their case.

      Have fun, Dave (Dr Surf Australia) COM

      --- In kitesurf@y..., Carlo <carlo@k...> wrote:
      > Herewith results for the poll on www.kitesurf.co.za: Do you think kites
      are
      > too expensive?
      >
      > So far 65 votes has been registered. Seems like the majority (89%) thinks
      > kites are too expensive. Interesting, since the outcome is quite the
      > opposite to the (mostly COM orientated) response we had on this forum a
      week
      > or so earlier...
      >
      > Yes (86%)
      > No, I can afford it (4%)
      > It doesn't really matter what kites cost, I'll buy it anyway (9%)
      >
      > Carlo
      > carlo@k...
      > http://www.kitesurf.co.za



      <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>

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    • ariraptis
      Windsurfing has not died!! As for Kite prices,they are reasonably priced for sports equipment. If you are going to be involved in an equipment intensive
      Message 2 of 21 , Apr 30, 2002
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        Windsurfing has not died!!

        As for Kite prices,they are reasonably priced for sports equipment.

        If you are going to be involved in an equipment intensive sport,you
        are going to have to pay!

        Ksurfing still works out cheaper than many other sports. how about
        Yachting,or boating in general? Not to mention a ski boat for
        wakeboarding and such.
        Gliding? Hang gliding? Car racing? Motorbike racing?Motorcross? Big
        game fishing?

        All pastimes that require an outlay!

        If you don't want to spend so much on a sport,there are lots of
        cheaper and free alternatives. Surfing,fishing,running,rockclimbing?
        athletics,etc,etc,and boring!!

        So,Carlo,back to your Boogie Board and chess set.

        Just remember,once you have the Kite,its all free baby!!!

        Ari


        --- In kitesurf@y..., "Marc Lagesse (Sharp Systems)" <lurge@s...>
        wrote:
        > What's with all the hostility towards Carlo. Don't be so sensitive.
        It was a
        > simple question?
        > Unless you enjoy spending money, I sure we would all like to see
        the cost
        > come down. However, kiting is a great sport and those who want to
        do it will
        > make a plan to get the kit.
        > If kiting wants to grow it should become more affordable. Just
        remember why
        > windsurfing died!
        >
        > Chill out and put some of your agro into your next move....
        >
        > Marc Lagesse
        > 083 462 8315
        > http://www.sharpsystems.co.za
        >
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: drsurfau [mailto:dave@m...]
        > Sent: 30 April 2002 14:24
        > To: kitesurf@y...
        > Subject: [ksurf] Re: Poll Result: Do you think kites are too
        expensive?
        >
        >
        > Really Carlo, you are naive.
        >
        > Why don't you do a poll on whether people on this forum should get
        paid
        > more in their jobs. Or one for lower taxes for kitesurfers, more
        > kitesurf beach access or capital punishment for those that
        deliberately
        > abuse kites :-) Pretty predictable results.
        >
        > Yes I'm one of those COM guys you seem to take exception to who
        > doesn't, (strangely enough), make a fortune out of kitesurfing
        sales. I
        > can tell you where you can make a lot of money though. Try surf
        > clothing especially if you have the right brands, 100% markup; try
        Real
        > Estate; property round my area has increased 100% in the past
        couple of
        > years, (I'm glad I had some) but don't try computer sales, approx
        10%
        > markup, or kitesurf gear, relatively small market compared to just
        > about anything else.
        >
        > If you feel so strongly about kite pricing Carlo perhaps you should
        > hassle whoever is responsible for your exchange rate compared to
        the US
        > dollar. Or start your own kite manufacturing business and find out
        how
        > easy and inexpensive it is to make it big in the kite industry and
        sell
        > LEI kites for half the normal price;-)
        >
        > But you are wasting your time whinging about pricing and kitesurf
        > retailers in the same breath. I never stated that I believed that
        kite
        > prices were OK. I live in a country where our dollar is about half
        that
        > of the US dollar. I could whinge too as I buy a considerable amount
        of
        > gear for myself. However it's far more productive to just earn some
        > more money, (generally outside the kitesurf industry), by working
        > harder, smarter or taking an extra job, (or creating one) than
        > complaining.
        >
        > Get off it Carlo, global market forces control the the pricing and
        we
        > few retailers don't control much of that. I try to give the best
        prices
        > I can for my customers and give free extra service as well.
        >
        > BTW, I think you are located in South Africa, you have a kite
        > manufacturer or two in your country, fly their kites, they are
        > apparently well priced. Or if you want them to make LEI kites get
        on
        > their case.
        >
        > Have fun, Dave (Dr Surf Australia) COM
        >
        > --- In kitesurf@y..., Carlo <carlo@k...> wrote:
        > > Herewith results for the poll on www.kitesurf.co.za: Do you think
        kites
        > are
        > > too expensive?
        > >
        > > So far 65 votes has been registered. Seems like the majority
        (89%) thinks
        > > kites are too expensive. Interesting, since the outcome is quite
        the
        > > opposite to the (mostly COM orientated) response we had on this
        forum a
        > week
        > > or so earlier...
        > >
        > > Yes (86%)
        > > No, I can afford it (4%)
        > > It doesn't really matter what kites cost, I'll buy it anyway (9%)
        > >
        > > Carlo
        > > carlo@k...
        > > http://www.kitesurf.co.za
        >
        >
        >
        > <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@e...>>>
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
        http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      • Marc Lagesse (Sharp Systems)
        you right, windsurfing is not dead.... it is bigger and better than ten years ago... I think not! You right again, kiting is cheaper than other sports, but
        Message 3 of 21 , Apr 30, 2002
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          you right, windsurfing is not dead.... it is bigger and better than ten
          years ago... I think not!

          You right again, kiting is cheaper than other sports, but with other sports
          you don't need to replace your kit every season.... I should know because I
          do other water sports!

          regardless of whether or not you or I or the guy next door can afford it,
          the point still remains that kiting is a great sport and if it is reasonable
          priced it will have a great future.


          Marc Lagesse
          083 462 8315
          http://www.sharpsystems.co.za


          -----Original Message-----
          From: ariraptis [mailto:ariraptis@...]
          Sent: 30 April 2002 14:54
          To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [ksurf] Re: Poll Result: Do you think kites are too expensive ?


          Windsurfing has not died!!

          As for Kite prices,they are reasonably priced for sports equipment.

          If you are going to be involved in an equipment intensive sport,you
          are going to have to pay!

          Ksurfing still works out cheaper than many other sports. how about
          Yachting,or boating in general? Not to mention a ski boat for
          wakeboarding and such.
          Gliding? Hang gliding? Car racing? Motorbike racing?Motorcross? Big
          game fishing?

          All pastimes that require an outlay!

          If you don't want to spend so much on a sport,there are lots of
          cheaper and free alternatives. Surfing,fishing,running,rockclimbing?
          athletics,etc,etc,and boring!!

          So,Carlo,back to your Boogie Board and chess set.

          Just remember,once you have the Kite,its all free baby!!!

          Ari


          --- In kitesurf@y..., "Marc Lagesse (Sharp Systems)" <lurge@s...>
          wrote:
          > What's with all the hostility towards Carlo. Don't be so sensitive.
          It was a
          > simple question?
          > Unless you enjoy spending money, I sure we would all like to see
          the cost
          > come down. However, kiting is a great sport and those who want to
          do it will
          > make a plan to get the kit.
          > If kiting wants to grow it should become more affordable. Just
          remember why
          > windsurfing died!
          >
          > Chill out and put some of your agro into your next move....
          >
          > Marc Lagesse
          > 083 462 8315
          > http://www.sharpsystems.co.za
          >
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: drsurfau [mailto:dave@m...]
          > Sent: 30 April 2002 14:24
          > To: kitesurf@y...
          > Subject: [ksurf] Re: Poll Result: Do you think kites are too
          expensive?
          >
          >
          > Really Carlo, you are naive.
          >
          > Why don't you do a poll on whether people on this forum should get
          paid
          > more in their jobs. Or one for lower taxes for kitesurfers, more
          > kitesurf beach access or capital punishment for those that
          deliberately
          > abuse kites :-) Pretty predictable results.
          >
          > Yes I'm one of those COM guys you seem to take exception to who
          > doesn't, (strangely enough), make a fortune out of kitesurfing
          sales. I
          > can tell you where you can make a lot of money though. Try surf
          > clothing especially if you have the right brands, 100% markup; try
          Real
          > Estate; property round my area has increased 100% in the past
          couple of
          > years, (I'm glad I had some) but don't try computer sales, approx
          10%
          > markup, or kitesurf gear, relatively small market compared to just
          > about anything else.
          >
          > If you feel so strongly about kite pricing Carlo perhaps you should
          > hassle whoever is responsible for your exchange rate compared to
          the US
          > dollar. Or start your own kite manufacturing business and find out
          how
          > easy and inexpensive it is to make it big in the kite industry and
          sell
          > LEI kites for half the normal price;-)
          >
          > But you are wasting your time whinging about pricing and kitesurf
          > retailers in the same breath. I never stated that I believed that
          kite
          > prices were OK. I live in a country where our dollar is about half
          that
          > of the US dollar. I could whinge too as I buy a considerable amount
          of
          > gear for myself. However it's far more productive to just earn some
          > more money, (generally outside the kitesurf industry), by working
          > harder, smarter or taking an extra job, (or creating one) than
          > complaining.
          >
          > Get off it Carlo, global market forces control the the pricing and
          we
          > few retailers don't control much of that. I try to give the best
          prices
          > I can for my customers and give free extra service as well.
          >
          > BTW, I think you are located in South Africa, you have a kite
          > manufacturer or two in your country, fly their kites, they are
          > apparently well priced. Or if you want them to make LEI kites get
          on
          > their case.
          >
          > Have fun, Dave (Dr Surf Australia) COM
          >
          > --- In kitesurf@y..., Carlo <carlo@k...> wrote:
          > > Herewith results for the poll on www.kitesurf.co.za: Do you think
          kites
          > are
          > > too expensive?
          > >
          > > So far 65 votes has been registered. Seems like the majority
          (89%) thinks
          > > kites are too expensive. Interesting, since the outcome is quite
          the
          > > opposite to the (mostly COM orientated) response we had on this
          forum a
          > week
          > > or so earlier...
          > >
          > > Yes (86%)
          > > No, I can afford it (4%)
          > > It doesn't really matter what kites cost, I'll buy it anyway (9%)
          > >
          > > Carlo
          > > carlo@k...
          > > http://www.kitesurf.co.za
          >
          >
          >
          > <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@e...>>>
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


          <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>

          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        • kiteburgy
          Hi ... other sports ... because I ... Do you really have to replace your kit every year? OK if your competing then theres a good reason to have the latest kit
          Message 4 of 21 , Apr 30, 2002
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            Hi

            > You right again, kiting is cheaper than other sports, but with
            other sports
            > you don't need to replace your kit every season.... I should know
            because I
            > do other water sports!

            Do you really have to replace your kit every year? OK if your
            competing then theres a good reason to have the latest kit but for
            the average kitesurfer whats the point?

            I dont own any LEIs but do they wear out that quickly? I have foils
            that are 4-5 years old & there still OK.


            Steve
          • throb_list
            Ari - your argument hold no water!! ... Have you seen the size of a yacht?? Not the one in your bath tub but the one in the sea - you can live in one!! ... A
            Message 5 of 21 , Apr 30, 2002
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              Ari - your argument hold no water!!

              >
              > Ksurfing still works out cheaper than many other sports. how about
              > Yachting,

              Have you seen the size of a yacht?? Not the one in your bath tub but
              the one in the sea - you can live in one!!

              > Not to mention a ski boat for wakeboarding and such.

              A ski boat has a engine which needs to be machined using complicated
              processes.

              > Gliding? Hang gliding?

              These are relatively complicated devices - they need to be
              manufactured to the strictest standards for safety reasons!

              >Car racing? Motorbike racing?Motorcross? Big

              Same as the boat - has engine chassis etc... lots of manufacturing
              involved!!

              > game fishing?

              Shit I give up on this one - but also like the boat!!


              Now look at your kite - do you see any sort of relationship between
              ths kite and what you just said?? If so then time to see a shrink!!!

              No the kite is a bloody piece of ripstop sewed together. Further
              there is a little tag on it that says "Made in China"
              know what that means??? Not big factory with complicated milling
              machines or SMD placement tools. No - just a bunch of little chinese
              ladies with sewing machines being payed less in a year then you earn
              in a week!!!

              So then where does the price come from??? And please dont tell me
              R&D?? Shit the amount car companies put into R&D will make Mr Naish's
              R&D budget look like a grocery list!!!
            • ariraptis
              The relationship is that you are using some form of equipment,thats all! Those other things are much,much more expensive! A Yacht you could live on might be
              Message 6 of 21 , Apr 30, 2002
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                The relationship is that you are using some form of equipment,thats
                all!
                Those other things are much,much more expensive!
                A Yacht you could live on might be 100 to 1000 times as much!

                Anyway,you are a rude prick! You are the one that should see a
                shrink!!You obviously have some serious problems!You will never enjoy
                Kitsurfing,while you are so worried about where it came from,and how
                much it cost!Tightass!

                All those that don't like the price of a new ,state of the art,kite,
                should look for a second hand bargain.If you want up to date
                equipment,be prepared to pay for it.

                Anyway,with new manufacturers coming into the market,and the initial
                design stage over,I would expect the prices to fall a bit,or ,at
                least not go up!

                To all you Communists and Anarchists,who expect to get things without
                anyone making a profit,BAD LUCK!!Take up jogging and swimming,they
                are free.

                Angry Ari




                --- In kitesurf@y..., "throb_list" <captain1@i...> wrote:
                > Ari - your argument hold no water!!
                >
                > >
                > > Ksurfing still works out cheaper than many other sports. how
                about
                > > Yachting,
                >
                > Have you seen the size of a yacht?? Not the one in your bath tub
                but
                > the one in the sea - you can live in one!!
                >
                > > Not to mention a ski boat for wakeboarding and such.
                >
                > A ski boat has a engine which needs to be machined using
                complicated
                > processes.
                >
                > > Gliding? Hang gliding?
                >
                > These are relatively complicated devices - they need to be
                > manufactured to the strictest standards for safety reasons!
                >
                > >Car racing? Motorbike racing?Motorcross? Big
                >
                > Same as the boat - has engine chassis etc... lots of manufacturing
                > involved!!
                >
                > > game fishing?
                >
                > Shit I give up on this one - but also like the boat!!
                >
                >
                > Now look at your kite - do you see any sort of relationship between
                > ths kite and what you just said?? If so then time to see a shrink!!!
                >
                > No the kite is a bloody piece of ripstop sewed together. Further
                > there is a little tag on it that says "Made in China"
                > know what that means??? Not big factory with complicated milling
                > machines or SMD placement tools. No - just a bunch of little
                chinese
                > ladies with sewing machines being payed less in a year then you
                earn
                > in a week!!!
                >
                > So then where does the price come from??? And please dont tell me
                > R&D?? Shit the amount car companies put into R&D will make Mr
                Naish's
                > R&D budget look like a grocery list!!!
              • Ron Seydler
                Like kitesicko I also raced dinghy s (quite successfully too) Now with these things your looking at a new rig, sail, mast/boom each year and a new boat every
                Message 7 of 21 , Apr 30, 2002
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                  Like kitesicko I also raced dinghy's (quite successfully too)

                  Now with these things your looking at a new rig, sail, mast/boom each year
                  and a new boat every two or three (not pending wave jumping in Sydney
                  harbour).

                  Kiting works out about the same only I can do it during lunch or after work
                  and get far more use and time out of my kite gear than I ever did the boat!

                  Depending on what sport you did before will depend on your perspective.
                  Sitting on the couch can be quite expensive too ;)

                  Ron
                • callum_downie
                  I kind of got to agree with Ari... Kite Equiptment is going to be reasonably pricey and if anyone here thinks otherwise either get over it or change sports.
                  Message 8 of 21 , Apr 30, 2002
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                    I kind of got to agree with Ari...

                    Kite Equiptment is going to be reasonably pricey and if anyone here
                    thinks otherwise either get over it or change sports. Lets be
                    realistic the prices arn't real likely to fall, hopefully they won't
                    get more expensive either, I see no reason why they should.

                    I would like to see some stats on the cost of bringing a kite to a
                    buyer, remembering that at every step someone has to make some money
                    or the buisiness would be un sustainable. I wouldn't be all that
                    suprised if the profit margins wern't all that large like a lot of
                    people think.

                    Heres an idea for the people who think kites should be so much
                    cheaper, start you own kite company design or own kite, proto type
                    it, test it, change it, test it, change it, test it, Market it, sell
                    it world wide. See how much you'll have to make on each kite before
                    you go out of buisiness. I bet you alot of the kite companys that
                    are currently making LEI's started because they thought they could
                    make competitive lei's at a cheaper price. There isn't a single
                    company do this, ask yourself why? If they could of course they
                    would they'd have a huge market share instantly...

                    Later,
                    Callum


                    Ps, I may be delusional due to the severe lack of wind....


                    --- In kitesurf@y..., "ariraptis" <ariraptis@y...> wrote:
                    > The relationship is that you are using some form of equipment,thats
                    > all!
                    > Those other things are much,much more expensive!
                    > A Yacht you could live on might be 100 to 1000 times as much!
                    >
                    > Anyway,you are a rude prick! You are the one that should see a
                    > shrink!!You obviously have some serious problems!You will never
                    enjoy
                    > Kitsurfing,while you are so worried about where it came from,and
                    how
                    > much it cost!Tightass!
                    >
                    > All those that don't like the price of a new ,state of the
                    art,kite,
                    > should look for a second hand bargain.If you want up to date
                    > equipment,be prepared to pay for it.
                    >
                    > Anyway,with new manufacturers coming into the market,and the
                    initial
                    > design stage over,I would expect the prices to fall a bit,or ,at
                    > least not go up!
                    >
                    > To all you Communists and Anarchists,who expect to get things
                    without
                    > anyone making a profit,BAD LUCK!!Take up jogging and swimming,they
                    > are free.
                    >
                    > Angry Ari
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In kitesurf@y..., "throb_list" <captain1@i...> wrote:
                    > > Ari - your argument hold no water!!
                    > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Ksurfing still works out cheaper than many other sports. how
                    > about
                    > > > Yachting,
                    > >
                    > > Have you seen the size of a yacht?? Not the one in your bath tub
                    > but
                    > > the one in the sea - you can live in one!!
                    > >
                    > > > Not to mention a ski boat for wakeboarding and such.
                    > >
                    > > A ski boat has a engine which needs to be machined using
                    > complicated
                    > > processes.
                    > >
                    > > > Gliding? Hang gliding?
                    > >
                    > > These are relatively complicated devices - they need to be
                    > > manufactured to the strictest standards for safety reasons!
                    > >
                    > > >Car racing? Motorbike racing?Motorcross? Big
                    > >
                    > > Same as the boat - has engine chassis etc... lots of
                    manufacturing
                    > > involved!!
                    > >
                    > > > game fishing?
                    > >
                    > > Shit I give up on this one - but also like the boat!!
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Now look at your kite - do you see any sort of relationship
                    between
                    > > ths kite and what you just said?? If so then time to see a
                    shrink!!!
                    > >
                    > > No the kite is a bloody piece of ripstop sewed together. Further
                    > > there is a little tag on it that says "Made in China"
                    > > know what that means??? Not big factory with complicated milling
                    > > machines or SMD placement tools. No - just a bunch of little
                    > chinese
                    > > ladies with sewing machines being payed less in a year then you
                    > earn
                    > > in a week!!!
                    > >
                    > > So then where does the price come from??? And please dont tell me
                    > > R&D?? Shit the amount car companies put into R&D will make Mr
                    > Naish's
                    > > R&D budget look like a grocery list!!!
                  • callum_downie
                    ... perspective. ... To true, of course you need the plazma Tv, the Bose Suround system, The PS@ and all the games, The XBOX and all the games, A few beers, a
                    Message 9 of 21 , Apr 30, 2002
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                      > Depending on what sport you did before will depend on your
                      perspective.
                      > Sitting on the couch can be quite expensive too ;)

                      To true, of course you need the plazma Tv, the Bose Suround system,
                      The PS@ and all the games, The XBOX and all the games, A few beers, a
                      bit of wacky backy, a topless gstring wearing nymphete to bring you
                      the beer... It ain't going to be real cheap...

                      Sorry,
                      Callum

                      Definatly delusional due to the lack of wind, going to have to go
                      play xbox. Someone needs to make a kiting game for it though...
                    • throb_list
                      Oooh..... Looks like a bit of a tantrum thrown by the feminists!! dont worry Ari we understand - bad time of the month!!! ... enjoy ... how ... art,kite, ...
                      Message 10 of 21 , Apr 30, 2002
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Oooh.....

                        Looks like a bit of a tantrum thrown by the feminists!!

                        dont worry Ari we understand - bad time of the month!!!



                        --- In kitesurf@y..., "ariraptis" <ariraptis@y...> wrote:
                        > The relationship is that you are using some form of equipment,thats
                        > all!
                        > Those other things are much,much more expensive!
                        > A Yacht you could live on might be 100 to 1000 times as much!
                        >
                        > Anyway,you are a rude prick! You are the one that should see a
                        > shrink!!You obviously have some serious problems!You will never
                        enjoy
                        > Kitsurfing,while you are so worried about where it came from,and
                        how
                        > much it cost!Tightass!
                        >
                        > All those that don't like the price of a new ,state of the
                        art,kite,
                        > should look for a second hand bargain.If you want up to date
                        > equipment,be prepared to pay for it.
                        >
                        > Anyway,with new manufacturers coming into the market,and the
                        initial
                        > design stage over,I would expect the prices to fall a bit,or ,at
                        > least not go up!
                        >
                        > To all you Communists and Anarchists,who expect to get things
                        without
                        > anyone making a profit,BAD LUCK!!Take up jogging and swimming,they
                        > are free.
                        >
                        > Angry Ari
                        >
                        >
                      • andres_santacruz
                        I don t know about you guys, but I have seen board prices go down a lot. Kites could get a little cheaper. Andres Santacruz ... equipment,thats ...
                        Message 11 of 21 , Apr 30, 2002
                        • 0 Attachment
                          I don't know about you guys, but I have seen board prices go down a
                          lot. Kites could get a little cheaper.
                          Andres Santacruz


                          --- In kitesurf@y..., "throb_list" <captain1@i...> wrote:
                          > Oooh.....
                          >
                          > Looks like a bit of a tantrum thrown by the feminists!!
                          >
                          > dont worry Ari we understand - bad time of the month!!!
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In kitesurf@y..., "ariraptis" <ariraptis@y...> wrote:
                          > > The relationship is that you are using some form of
                          equipment,thats
                          > > all!
                          > > Those other things are much,much more expensive!
                          > > A Yacht you could live on might be 100 to 1000 times as much!
                          > >
                          > > Anyway,you are a rude prick! You are the one that should see a
                          > > shrink!!You obviously have some serious problems!You will never
                          > enjoy
                          > > Kitsurfing,while you are so worried about where it came from,and
                          > how
                          > > much it cost!Tightass!
                          > >
                          > > All those that don't like the price of a new ,state of the
                          > art,kite,
                          > > should look for a second hand bargain.If you want up to date
                          > > equipment,be prepared to pay for it.
                          > >
                          > > Anyway,with new manufacturers coming into the market,and the
                          > initial
                          > > design stage over,I would expect the prices to fall a bit,or ,at
                          > > least not go up!
                          > >
                          > > To all you Communists and Anarchists,who expect to get things
                          > without
                          > > anyone making a profit,BAD LUCK!!Take up jogging and
                          swimming,they
                          > > are free.
                          > >
                          > > Angry Ari
                          > >
                          > >
                        • Carlo
                          Hi Dave and all, I put the poll up on my site to get a different perspective on things. I know from statistics that there is very little COM s visiting my
                          Message 12 of 21 , May 1, 2002
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Hi Dave and all,

                            I put the poll up on my site to get a different perspective on things. I
                            know from statistics that there is very little COM's visiting my site. I
                            wanted some answers from the people who use kites.

                            I asked a question, and people answered the question. If you don't like the
                            result, then you shouldn't be reading this thread, or if you don't like the
                            fact that people can't afford kites then maybe you shouldn't be selling
                            kites. I don't think it's the retailers that puts up the high prices, it's
                            manufacturers.

                            You can compare kites with yachts, and tv's and houses and cars. But the
                            fact remains that kites are too expensive. And don't play the old COM card
                            of you should get a better job or earn more money. Anything can be
                            expensive. Even when you can afford it. Most people kitesurfing already have
                            good jobs and earn good moeny, otherwise they wouldn't be kitesurfers right
                            now. If an item is so expensive, that it is expensive to a portion of the
                            market that has a high level of income, isn't it pretty obvious what is
                            happening?

                            I will still buy kites, because I want to kitesurf. This question was posted
                            to state the facts. It wasn't aimed at retailers, but maybe at some people
                            who manufacture kites and read this list.

                            It is posted in a positive note: wake up and smell the coffee. you will
                            never be able to sell enough kites, cause most people can't afford the high
                            prices. make them a little bit more affordable and you will be able to sell
                            more, and people will buy more. If prices don't go down, the kiting industry
                            will not collapse. It will just stay an elitist sport, and even less people
                            will kitesurf than there are windsurfing.

                            At the end of the day, the high prices will not affect the current consumers
                            as much as it would the people in the kiting industry. It won't affect me as
                            much when prices increases, but it would affect you dave, because you will
                            sell even less kites. Less kites = less profit = less money = same
                            overheads; which means companies will start closing down. start seeing the
                            picture? So all these consumers you are ripping off with 'get a better job'
                            will still be kiting when you are with your arse in the streets.

                            I hope I didn't cause any sleepless nights to any COM's. hehe. Also Ari, it
                            is good to see you get angry.

                            Carlo
                            www.kitesurf.co.za



                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: drsurfau [mailto:dave@...]
                            Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 2:24 PM
                            To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: [ksurf] Re: Poll Result: Do you think kites are too expensive?


                            Really Carlo, you are naive.

                            Why don't you do a poll on whether people on this forum should get paid
                            more in their jobs. Or one for lower taxes for kitesurfers, more
                            kitesurf beach access or capital punishment for those that deliberately
                            abuse kites :-) Pretty predictable results.

                            Yes I'm one of those COM guys you seem to take exception to who
                            doesn't, (strangely enough), make a fortune out of kitesurfing sales. I
                            can tell you where you can make a lot of money though. Try surf
                            clothing especially if you have the right brands, 100% markup; try Real
                            Estate; property round my area has increased 100% in the past couple of
                            years, (I'm glad I had some) but don't try computer sales, approx 10%
                            markup, or kitesurf gear, relatively small market compared to just
                            about anything else.

                            If you feel so strongly about kite pricing Carlo perhaps you should
                            hassle whoever is responsible for your exchange rate compared to the US
                            dollar. Or start your own kite manufacturing business and find out how
                            easy and inexpensive it is to make it big in the kite industry and sell
                            LEI kites for half the normal price;-)

                            But you are wasting your time whinging about pricing and kitesurf
                            retailers in the same breath. I never stated that I believed that kite
                            prices were OK. I live in a country where our dollar is about half that
                            of the US dollar. I could whinge too as I buy a considerable amount of
                            gear for myself. However it's far more productive to just earn some
                            more money, (generally outside the kitesurf industry), by working
                            harder, smarter or taking an extra job, (or creating one) than
                            complaining.

                            Get off it Carlo, global market forces control the the pricing and we
                            few retailers don't control much of that. I try to give the best prices
                            I can for my customers and give free extra service as well.

                            BTW, I think you are located in South Africa, you have a kite
                            manufacturer or two in your country, fly their kites, they are
                            apparently well priced. Or if you want them to make LEI kites get on
                            their case.

                            Have fun, Dave (Dr Surf Australia) COM

                            --- In kitesurf@y..., Carlo <carlo@k...> wrote:
                            > Herewith results for the poll on www.kitesurf.co.za: Do you think kites
                            are
                            > too expensive?
                            >
                            > So far 65 votes has been registered. Seems like the majority (89%) thinks
                            > kites are too expensive. Interesting, since the outcome is quite the
                            > opposite to the (mostly COM orientated) response we had on this forum a
                            week
                            > or so earlier...
                            >
                            > Yes (86%)
                            > No, I can afford it (4%)
                            > It doesn't really matter what kites cost, I'll buy it anyway (9%)
                            >
                            > Carlo
                            > carlo@k...
                            > http://www.kitesurf.co.za



                            <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>

                            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                          • ariraptis
                            You sexist pig!! You make me so-o-oo-o-o- MAD!!!!!! Angry Drunken Ari ... equipment,thats ... swimming,they
                            Message 13 of 21 , May 1, 2002
                            • 0 Attachment
                              You sexist pig!!

                              You make me so-o-oo-o-o- MAD!!!!!!

                              Angry Drunken Ari





                              --- In kitesurf@y..., "throb_list" <captain1@i...> wrote:
                              > Oooh.....
                              >
                              > Looks like a bit of a tantrum thrown by the feminists!!
                              >
                              > dont worry Ari we understand - bad time of the month!!!
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In kitesurf@y..., "ariraptis" <ariraptis@y...> wrote:
                              > > The relationship is that you are using some form of
                              equipment,thats
                              > > all!
                              > > Those other things are much,much more expensive!
                              > > A Yacht you could live on might be 100 to 1000 times as much!
                              > >
                              > > Anyway,you are a rude prick! You are the one that should see a
                              > > shrink!!You obviously have some serious problems!You will never
                              > enjoy
                              > > Kitsurfing,while you are so worried about where it came from,and
                              > how
                              > > much it cost!Tightass!
                              > >
                              > > All those that don't like the price of a new ,state of the
                              > art,kite,
                              > > should look for a second hand bargain.If you want up to date
                              > > equipment,be prepared to pay for it.
                              > >
                              > > Anyway,with new manufacturers coming into the market,and the
                              > initial
                              > > design stage over,I would expect the prices to fall a bit,or ,at
                              > > least not go up!
                              > >
                              > > To all you Communists and Anarchists,who expect to get things
                              > without
                              > > anyone making a profit,BAD LUCK!!Take up jogging and
                              swimming,they
                              > > are free.
                              > >
                              > > Angry Ari
                              > >
                              > >
                            • gregwalshau
                              Hi All. I have an instinctive feeling that the kitesurf hysteria has died down. Everyone was thinking we were going to take over the world and become a
                              Message 14 of 21 , May 1, 2002
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Hi All.

                                I have an instinctive feeling that the kitesurf hysteria has died
                                down. Everyone was thinking we were going to take over the world and
                                become a mainstream sport. My feeling is that it has reached a
                                plateau and is coming off the boil. I have no real evidence to
                                support this, it's just a feeling.

                                I go into kitesurf shops and they have a bunch of inflatables and a
                                tiny stock of boards.

                                Newsagents have old, out-of-date kitesurf magazines, or no kitesurf
                                magazines at all.

                                What does everybody else think?

                                Greg
                              • Henryk Majewski
                                I agree that this sport has slow down. I still insist the price is the main reason. Very often I have people approaching me on my local beach and asking how
                                Message 15 of 21 , May 1, 2002
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  I agree that this sport has slow down. I still insist the price is the main
                                  reason.
                                  Very often I have people approaching me on my local beach and asking how
                                  much the gear costs.
                                  My answer A$3000 dollar gives them the shock. And obviously this is not a
                                  full story.
                                  You need more than one kite and you have to replace it between 1 and 2
                                  years.
                                  There is more and more gear on the secondhand market.
                                  What I here from my friends it is hard to sell kite gear.
                                  Kitesurfing is going the same path as windsurfing but I predict decline is
                                  going be faster.

                                  Kites are not a rocket science. Materials (excluding MACHs and X2s )
                                  are commonly used in several other industries. Tooling is not very
                                  sophisticated.
                                  They are built in countries where labour contents is relatively cheap.
                                  IMO there is no justification for such high prices.

                                  Henryk Majewski
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: gregwalshau <Greg.Walsh@...>
                                  To: <kitesurf@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 5:52 PM
                                  Subject: Sport of the month[ksurf] Re: Poll Result: Do you think kites are
                                  too expensive?


                                  > Hi All.
                                  >
                                  > I have an instinctive feeling that the kitesurf hysteria has died
                                  > down. Everyone was thinking we were going to take over the world and
                                  > become a mainstream sport. My feeling is that it has reached a
                                  > plateau and is coming off the boil. I have no real evidence to
                                  > support this, it's just a feeling.
                                  >
                                  > I go into kitesurf shops and they have a bunch of inflatables and a
                                  > tiny stock of boards.
                                  >
                                  > Newsagents have old, out-of-date kitesurf magazines, or no kitesurf
                                  > magazines at all.
                                  >
                                  > What does everybody else think?
                                  >
                                  > Greg
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>
                                  >
                                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                • Suntrax
                                  Hey Dave (Dr) Guess what! Our newest shipment of Naish kites has come down by about 6%, the manufacturers must be reading this group! ;-) Unfortunately it s
                                  Message 16 of 21 , May 1, 2002
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Hey Dave (Dr)

                                    Guess what! Our newest shipment of Naish kites has come down by about 6%,
                                    the manufacturers must be reading this group! ;-)

                                    Unfortunately it's only because our lousy exchange rate has improved, but
                                    this will make Andy at Kitehigh happier as it pushes up our export prices!

                                    Kitesurfing is alive and well in Capetown and everybody is complaining about
                                    the prices of kites and sunglasses and jetskis and televisions and
                                    windsurfers and motorcars and skateboards and and and and....... but MOSTLY
                                    A LACK OF WIND!

                                    Best Regards

                                    Brian Wilson
                                    Suntrax
                                    Tel/fax 027 21 5560044
                                    cell; 0824656696
                                    www.suntrax.co.za
                                    suntrax@...

                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: drsurfau [mailto:dave@...]
                                    Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 2:24 PM
                                    To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: [ksurf] Re: Poll Result: Do you think kites are too expensive?


                                    Really Carlo, you are naive.

                                    Why don't you do a poll on whether people on this forum should get paid
                                    more in their jobs. Or one for lower taxes for kitesurfers, more
                                    kitesurf beach access or capital punishment for those that deliberately
                                    abuse kites :-) Pretty predictable results.

                                    Yes I'm one of those COM guys you seem to take exception to who
                                    doesn't, (strangely enough), make a fortune out of kitesurfing sales. I
                                    can tell you where you can make a lot of money though. Try surf
                                    clothing especially if you have the right brands, 100% markup; try Real
                                    Estate; property round my area has increased 100% in the past couple of
                                    years, (I'm glad I had some) but don't try computer sales, approx 10%
                                    markup, or kitesurf gear, relatively small market compared to just
                                    about anything else.

                                    If you feel so strongly about kite pricing Carlo perhaps you should
                                    hassle whoever is responsible for your exchange rate compared to the US
                                    dollar. Or start your own kite manufacturing business and find out how
                                    easy and inexpensive it is to make it big in the kite industry and sell
                                    LEI kites for half the normal price;-)

                                    But you are wasting your time whinging about pricing and kitesurf
                                    retailers in the same breath. I never stated that I believed that kite
                                    prices were OK. I live in a country where our dollar is about half that
                                    of the US dollar. I could whinge too as I buy a considerable amount of
                                    gear for myself. However it's far more productive to just earn some
                                    more money, (generally outside the kitesurf industry), by working
                                    harder, smarter or taking an extra job, (or creating one) than
                                    complaining.

                                    Get off it Carlo, global market forces control the the pricing and we
                                    few retailers don't control much of that. I try to give the best prices
                                    I can for my customers and give free extra service as well.

                                    BTW, I think you are located in South Africa, you have a kite
                                    manufacturer or two in your country, fly their kites, they are
                                    apparently well priced. Or if you want them to make LEI kites get on
                                    their case.

                                    Have fun, Dave (Dr Surf Australia) COM
                                  • seancmurph@aol.com
                                    In a message dated 5/1/2002 12:31:12 AM Central Daylight Time, ... I miss TOdd, at least he was humorous while being obnoxious... Sean [Non-text portions of
                                    Message 17 of 21 , May 1, 2002
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      In a message dated 5/1/2002 12:31:12 AM Central Daylight Time,
                                      ariraptis@... writes:


                                      > Angry Ari
                                      >
                                      >

                                      I miss TOdd, at least he was humorous while being obnoxious...

                                      Sean


                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • drsurfau
                                      Touché :-)My sentiments exactly.BTW, I went and priced an island today. You know the type, warm, windy, lots of scantily clad women on endless sandy
                                      Message 18 of 21 , May 1, 2002
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Touché :-)

                                        My sentiments exactly.

                                        BTW, I went and priced an island today. You know the type, warm, windy,
                                        lots of scantily clad women on endless sandy beaches and no kitesurf
                                        restrictions etc.

                                        Well I was outraged, islands are sooo expensive! I reckon it's reached
                                        the point where only the rich can afford to buy them. Someone should do
                                        something about it! Are you listening Carlo, Henryk?? How about a poll?
                                        That'll fix it!

                                        Moral of the story, kites are cheap compared to islands, expensive
                                        compared to your average potato. Half the world doesn't even have
                                        access to clean water and yet some on this group complain about the
                                        price of everything?!!

                                        Get your priorities right, go have a kitesurf.

                                        Now at the moment in Australia wind is scarce, I'll pay, but not too
                                        much. Any offers of cheap wind?? Anyone?? :-)

                                        Go on have fun, everyone on this group is fucking privileged to do this
                                        sport!!

                                        Dave (Dr Surf Australia) COM

                                        --- In kitesurf@y..., "Suntrax" <Suntrax@i...> wrote:
                                        > Hey Dave (Dr)
                                        >
                                        > Guess what! Our newest shipment of Naish kites has come down by about 6%,=

                                        > the manufacturers must be reading this group! ;-)
                                        >
                                        > Unfortunately it's only because our lousy exchange rate has improved, but=

                                        > this will make Andy at Kitehigh happier as it pushes up our export prices=
                                        !
                                        >
                                        > Kitesurfing is alive and well in Capetown and everybody is complaining ab=
                                        out
                                        > the prices of kites and sunglasses and jetskis and televisions and
                                        > windsurfers and motorcars and skateboards and and and and....... but MOST=
                                        LY
                                        > A LACK OF WIND!
                                        >
                                        > Best Regards
                                        >
                                        > Brian Wilson
                                        > Suntrax
                                        > Tel/fax 027 21 5560044
                                        > cell; 0824656696
                                        > www.suntrax.co.za
                                        > suntrax@i...
                                        >
                                        > -----Original Message-----
                                        > From: drsurfau [mailto:dave@m...]
                                        > Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 2:24 PM
                                        > To: kitesurf@y...
                                        > Subject: [ksurf] Re: Poll Result: Do you think kites are too expensive?
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Really Carlo, you are naive.
                                        >
                                        > Why don't you do a poll on whether people on this forum should get paid
                                        > more in their jobs. Or one for lower taxes for kitesurfers, more
                                        > kitesurf beach access or capital punishment for those that deliberately
                                        > abuse kites :-) Pretty predictable results.
                                        >
                                        > Yes I'm one of those COM guys you seem to take exception to who
                                        > doesn't, (strangely enough), make a fortune out of kitesurfing sales. I
                                        > can tell you where you can make a lot of money though. Try surf
                                        > clothing especially if you have the right brands, 100% markup; try Real
                                        > Estate; property round my area has increased 100% in the past couple of
                                        > years, (I'm glad I had some) but don't try computer sales, approx 10%
                                        > markup, or kitesurf gear, relatively small market compared to just
                                        > about anything else.
                                        >
                                        > If you feel so strongly about kite pricing Carlo perhaps you should
                                        > hassle whoever is responsible for your exchange rate compared to the US
                                        > dollar. Or start your own kite manufacturing business and find out how
                                        > easy and inexpensive it is to make it big in the kite industry and sell
                                        > LEI kites for half the normal price;-)
                                        >
                                        > But you are wasting your time whinging about pricing and kitesurf
                                        > retailers in the same breath. I never stated that I believed that kite
                                        > prices were OK. I live in a country where our dollar is about half that
                                        > of the US dollar. I could whinge too as I buy a considerable amount of
                                        > gear for myself. However it's far more productive to just earn some
                                        > more money, (generally outside the kitesurf industry), by working
                                        > harder, smarter or taking an extra job, (or creating one) than
                                        > complaining.
                                        >
                                        > Get off it Carlo, global market forces control the the pricing and we
                                        > few retailers don't control much of that. I try to give the best prices
                                        > I can for my customers and give free extra service as well.
                                        >
                                        > BTW, I think you are located in South Africa, you have a kite
                                        > manufacturer or two in your country, fly their kites, they are
                                        > apparently well priced. Or if you want them to make LEI kites get on
                                        > their case.
                                        >
                                        > Have fun, Dave (Dr Surf Australia) COM
                                      • Rodney Lawrence
                                        I tell ya what I ll put some of my wind in a bottle from perth WA but it will coast ya $$$$$ Cool post though its so true aswell. I just wish my $1000 630 arc
                                        Message 19 of 21 , May 1, 2002
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          I tell ya what I'll put some of my wind in a bottle from perth WA but it
                                          will coast ya $$$$$
                                          Cool post though its so true aswell. I just wish my $1000 630 arc was a
                                          $1500 1120. Just so I could go for a surf the winds here have been on
                                          holiday aswell.

                                          Rod

                                          LET US ALL PREY TO THE WIND GOD!!
                                          http://www.perth-kiteboarding.tk/
                                          ARCS & F-ARCS
                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          From: "drsurfau" <dave@...>
                                          To: <kitesurf@yahoogroups.com>
                                          Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 10:10 PM
                                          Subject: Sport of the month[ksurf] Re: Poll Result: Do you think kites are
                                          too expensive?


                                          Touché :-)

                                          My sentiments exactly.

                                          BTW, I went and priced an island today. You know the type, warm, windy,
                                          lots of scantily clad women on endless sandy beaches and no kitesurf
                                          restrictions etc.

                                          Well I was outraged, islands are sooo expensive! I reckon it's reached
                                          the point where only the rich can afford to buy them. Someone should do
                                          something about it! Are you listening Carlo, Henryk?? How about a poll?
                                          That'll fix it!

                                          Moral of the story, kites are cheap compared to islands, expensive
                                          compared to your average potato. Half the world doesn't even have
                                          access to clean water and yet some on this group complain about the
                                          price of everything?!!

                                          Get your priorities right, go have a kitesurf.

                                          Now at the moment in Australia wind is scarce, I'll pay, but not too
                                          much. Any offers of cheap wind?? Anyone?? :-)

                                          Go on have fun, everyone on this group is fucking privileged to do this
                                          sport!!

                                          Dave (Dr Surf Australia) COM

                                          --- In kitesurf@y..., "Suntrax" <Suntrax@i...> wrote:
                                          > Hey Dave (Dr)
                                          >
                                          > Guess what! Our newest shipment of Naish kites has come down by about 6%,=

                                          > the manufacturers must be reading this group! ;-)
                                          >
                                          > Unfortunately it's only because our lousy exchange rate has improved, but=

                                          > this will make Andy at Kitehigh happier as it pushes up our export prices=
                                          !
                                          >
                                          > Kitesurfing is alive and well in Capetown and everybody is complaining ab=
                                          out
                                          > the prices of kites and sunglasses and jetskis and televisions and
                                          > windsurfers and motorcars and skateboards and and and and....... but MOST=
                                          LY
                                          > A LACK OF WIND!
                                          >
                                          > Best Regards
                                          >
                                          > Brian Wilson
                                          > Suntrax
                                          > Tel/fax 027 21 5560044
                                          > cell; 0824656696
                                          > www.suntrax.co.za
                                          > suntrax@i...
                                          >
                                          > -----Original Message-----
                                          > From: drsurfau [mailto:dave@m...]
                                          > Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 2:24 PM
                                          > To: kitesurf@y...
                                          > Subject: [ksurf] Re: Poll Result: Do you think kites are too expensive?
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Really Carlo, you are naive.
                                          >
                                          > Why don't you do a poll on whether people on this forum should get paid
                                          > more in their jobs. Or one for lower taxes for kitesurfers, more
                                          > kitesurf beach access or capital punishment for those that deliberately
                                          > abuse kites :-) Pretty predictable results.
                                          >
                                          > Yes I'm one of those COM guys you seem to take exception to who
                                          > doesn't, (strangely enough), make a fortune out of kitesurfing sales. I
                                          > can tell you where you can make a lot of money though. Try surf
                                          > clothing especially if you have the right brands, 100% markup; try Real
                                          > Estate; property round my area has increased 100% in the past couple of
                                          > years, (I'm glad I had some) but don't try computer sales, approx 10%
                                          > markup, or kitesurf gear, relatively small market compared to just
                                          > about anything else.
                                          >
                                          > If you feel so strongly about kite pricing Carlo perhaps you should
                                          > hassle whoever is responsible for your exchange rate compared to the US
                                          > dollar. Or start your own kite manufacturing business and find out how
                                          > easy and inexpensive it is to make it big in the kite industry and sell
                                          > LEI kites for half the normal price;-)
                                          >
                                          > But you are wasting your time whinging about pricing and kitesurf
                                          > retailers in the same breath. I never stated that I believed that kite
                                          > prices were OK. I live in a country where our dollar is about half that
                                          > of the US dollar. I could whinge too as I buy a considerable amount of
                                          > gear for myself. However it's far more productive to just earn some
                                          > more money, (generally outside the kitesurf industry), by working
                                          > harder, smarter or taking an extra job, (or creating one) than
                                          > complaining.
                                          >
                                          > Get off it Carlo, global market forces control the the pricing and we
                                          > few retailers don't control much of that. I try to give the best prices
                                          > I can for my customers and give free extra service as well.
                                          >
                                          > BTW, I think you are located in South Africa, you have a kite
                                          > manufacturer or two in your country, fly their kites, they are
                                          > apparently well priced. Or if you want them to make LEI kites get on
                                          > their case.
                                          >
                                          > Have fun, Dave (Dr Surf Australia) COM



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                                        • Marc Munzer
                                          ... There is also the little fact that if you sell a kite cheaper than other kites then people think that there is something wrong with it and won t buy it...
                                          Message 20 of 21 , May 1, 2002
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                                            >you go out of buisiness. I bet you alot of the kite companys that
                                            >are currently making LEI's started because they thought they could
                                            >make competitive lei's at a cheaper price. There isn't a single
                                            >company do this, ask yourself why? If they could of course they
                                            >would they'd have a huge market share instantly...

                                            There is also the little fact that if you sell a kite cheaper than other
                                            kites then people think that there is something wrong with it and won't buy
                                            it... People complain about high prices but then don't support
                                            manufacturers who make an effort to drop their prices. Ask yourself if you
                                            went into your local surf shop and saw a Naish for 1000 and a new brand for
                                            500, which one would you buy... I would say 90% of people would go for the
                                            Naish because its obviously better because it is so much more expensive...

                                            In any case, I don't think that prices will come down for a while. There
                                            are too many companies on the market at the moment and nobody is making any
                                            money because they all have high overheads and no turnover. Wait a couple
                                            of years when half of the companies disappear, then the remaining companies
                                            will have more sales and they can start dropping their prices. The same
                                            goes for retailers, if you have 10 different retailers in your area all
                                            selling different brands then they will all make a little bit of money.
                                            Whereas if you had only 1 then the retailer could live with making less
                                            money on each kite because he is selling more.

                                            Regards,

                                            Marc
                                            GoExtreme.dk
                                          • Carlo
                                            ... Well said! This is exactly what this whole discussion is about. We are being ripped off.
                                            Message 21 of 21 , May 1, 2002
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                                              >Kites are not a rocket science. Materials (excluding MACHs and X2s )
                                              >are commonly used in several other industries. Tooling is not very
                                              >sophisticated.
                                              >They are built in countries where labour contents is relatively cheap.
                                              >IMO there is no justification for such high prices.
                                              >
                                              >Henryk Majewski

                                              Well said! This is exactly what this whole discussion is about. We are being
                                              ripped off.
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