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Re: Full Depower for Flysurfer 16 M

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  • mike_sumpter
    ... Make sure the blue safety cross strap is on the top pair knots (farthest from the bar). On the big MA s you need lot s of travel on the brakes to fully
    Message 1 of 10 , Apr 1, 2002
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      > The wind picked up from 10 mph to around 16 - 18 mph.
      > I was not able to full depower my Flysurfer 16M. When I let go of
      > the bar and held onto the safety strap the kite did not come close
      > to fully depowering. Instead it just kept on dragging me.

      Make sure the blue safety cross strap is on the top pair knots
      (farthest from the bar). On the big MA's you need lot's of travel on
      the brakes to fully depower. Another way of looking at it is when
      you drop the bar, the bar will move farther away from you and closer
      to the kite so brakes pull more and the LE spills the wind.

      If you have fitted any sort of power adjuster strap on the center
      line and have it was pulled in/shortened when you drop the bar it
      will limit the amount that the brakes pull because it limits how far
      the bar moves travels toward the kite.

      With the Flysurfers the center line and brakes are a "integrated
      system", meaning you change one you are affecting other whether you
      realize it or not. So basically I'm saying the bar has to be able to
      travel close enough to the kite to depower, make sure your lines
      allow that

      Mike S
    • kiteboard2000
      ... Probably safe to say Don t use ANY kite (in the trim loop) without a snap shackle! , since you can t get out of ANY trim loop when the wind picks up. Mel
      Message 2 of 10 , Apr 1, 2002
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        --- In kitesurf@y..., "fernmanus" <fernmanus@y...> wrote:

        > By the way, don't use this kite without a snap shackle! You cannot
        > get out of the chicken loop when the wind picks up.

        Probably safe to say "Don't use ANY kite (in the trim loop) without a
        snap shackle!", since you can't get out of ANY trim loop when the
        wind picks up.

        Mel
      • fernmanus
        Marc, Thank you for the advice. It is not an ideal solution, but should work. I should probably consider longer leaders, so that I don t have to pull in hand
        Message 3 of 10 , Apr 1, 2002
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          Marc,

          Thank you for the advice. It is not an ideal solution, but should
          work. I should probably consider longer leaders, so that I don't
          have to pull in hand fulls of flying line. I will also have to be
          sure that I land the kite in the water well away from shore if I am
          overpowered.

          I am using a Tylaska T-8 snap shackle so I don't need to worry about
          upgrading the bar, but I appreciate the info.

          Kenny


          --- In kitesurf@y..., Marc Munzer <mmun@i...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi Kenny,
          >
          > I have never used the 16M, but with the other mastairs, if you get
          into
          > trouble and really need to depower then drop the kite the standard
          way and
          > then once it is on the ground or water, pull on only one brake
          line. When
          > you pull in enough brake line, then the kite will only have tension
          on one
          > trailing edge bridle. This will reduce power to almost zero. Its
          sort of
          > similar to pulling the leash on an inflatable, the result is not
          pretty,
          > but it works.
          >
          > Regarding the snap shackle, check out the flysurfer web page. All
          the new
          > flysurfer kites come with a quick release. You can upgrade your
          older bar
          > to a new bar very cheaply.
          >
          > Marc
          > GoExtreme.dk
          >
          > At 17:12 01-04-2002 -0000, you wrote:
          > >I need some help with my Flysurfer 16M. The other day I took it
          out
          > >at Lake Mead. The wind picked up from 10 mph to around 16 - 18
          mph.
          > >I was not able to full depower my Flysurfer 16M. When I let go of
          > >the bar and held onto the safety strap the kite did not come close
          to
          > >fully depowering. Instead it just kept on dragging me. Does
          anyone
          > >have any good ideas? I like using the kite in light wind because
          it
          > >has more pull than a Wipika 16.4 AB, but I don't won't to take it
          out
          > >again until I am sure that I can depower the kite if the wind
          picks
          > >up.
          > >
          > >By the way, don't use this kite without a snap shackle! You
          cannot
          > >get out of the chicken loop when the wind picks up.
          > >
          > >Kenny
          > >
          > >
          > ><<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@e...>>>
          > >
          > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
        • fernmanus
          Mike, I did make sure that the blue safety strap was on the top pair of knots. After getting dragged across the snow this winter I added another pair of knots
          Message 4 of 10 , Apr 1, 2002
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            Mike,

            I did make sure that the blue safety strap was on the top pair of
            knots. After getting dragged across the snow this winter I added
            another pair of knots near the top of the leader, but it was still
            not enough when the wind really picked up. The kite still generated
            a tremendous amount of pull even though I was just hanging onto the
            safety strap.

            The method to depower the kite described by Marc Munzer should work
            fine on the water, but I doubt it will work on land or on snow. I
            personally feel more comfortable knowing that I can fully depower a
            kite. I have rigged a system to do this on my Wipika AB 16.4. I
            would like to do the same for my MA 16.

            By the way, the stock safety strap is a joke. The plastic buckle
            should be replaced with a decent wrist strap or a small snap shackle
            that could be attached directly to your harness.

            Kenny

            --- In kitesurf@y..., "mike_sumpter" <mikes1p@h...> wrote:
            > > The wind picked up from 10 mph to around 16 - 18 mph.
            > > I was not able to full depower my Flysurfer 16M. When I let go
            of
            > > the bar and held onto the safety strap the kite did not come
            close
            > > to fully depowering. Instead it just kept on dragging me.
            >
            > Make sure the blue safety cross strap is on the top pair knots
            > (farthest from the bar). On the big MA's you need lot's of travel
            on
            > the brakes to fully depower. Another way of looking at it is when
            > you drop the bar, the bar will move farther away from you and
            closer
            > to the kite so brakes pull more and the LE spills the wind.
            >
            > If you have fitted any sort of power adjuster strap on the center
            > line and have it was pulled in/shortened when you drop the bar it
            > will limit the amount that the brakes pull because it limits how
            far
            > the bar moves travels toward the kite.
            >
            > With the Flysurfers the center line and brakes are a "integrated
            > system", meaning you change one you are affecting other whether you
            > realize it or not. So basically I'm saying the bar has to be able
            to
            > travel close enough to the kite to depower, make sure your lines
            > allow that
            >
            > Mike S
          • fernmanus
            Amen! ... cannot ... a
            Message 5 of 10 , Apr 1, 2002
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              Amen!

              --- In kitesurf@y..., "kiteboard2000" <kitebord@p...> wrote:
              > --- In kitesurf@y..., "fernmanus" <fernmanus@y...> wrote:
              >
              > > By the way, don't use this kite without a snap shackle! You
              cannot
              > > get out of the chicken loop when the wind picks up.
              >
              > Probably safe to say "Don't use ANY kite (in the trim loop) without
              a
              > snap shackle!", since you can't get out of ANY trim loop when the
              > wind picks up.
              >
              > Mel
            • Marc Munzer
              ... Thats because when hanging off the safety leash the kite keeps its shape and still has tension on the main bridles. Its sort of like having an inflatable
              Message 6 of 10 , Apr 1, 2002
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                > The kite still generated
                >a tremendous amount of pull even though I was just hanging onto the
                >safety strap.

                Thats because when hanging off the safety leash the kite keeps its shape
                and still has tension on the main bridles. Its sort of like having an
                inflatable sitting on its trailing edge in the water. There is still lots
                of area facing the wind. For smaller kites it is okay because its a small
                area, but for a large kite in higher winds it will pull.

                >The method to depower the kite described by Marc Munzer should work
                >fine on the water, but I doubt it will work on land or on snow.

                It should work just as well on land as on water. The only difference is
                that on water it will more likely stay stuck to the water and not flop
                around as much. The amount of depower would be the same.

                > I have rigged a system to do this on my Wipika AB 16.4. I
                >would like to do the same for my MA 16.

                How did you rig up your Wipika?

                >By the way, the stock safety strap is a joke. The plastic buckle
                >should be replaced with a decent wrist strap or a small snap shackle
                >that could be attached directly to your harness.

                I think the idea with the safety strap is that you attach it to your
                harness, not your wrist. At least thats what I do. I agree though that it
                should be replaced with a quick release. Especially with the newer kites
                which pull more when the safety system is activated.

                Best regards,

                Marc
                GoExtreme.dk
              • fernmanus
                Marc, I use the version 3 of Mel Mods for my 16.4 AB. This safety system allows you to connect to the front line. This allows you to almost completely
                Message 7 of 10 , Apr 1, 2002
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                  Marc,

                  I use the version 3 of Mel Mods for my 16.4 AB. This safety system
                  allows you to connect to the front line. This allows you to almost
                  completely depower the kite.

                  Kenny


                  --- In kitesurf@y..., Marc Munzer <mmun@i...> wrote:
                  > > The kite still generated
                  > >a tremendous amount of pull even though I was just hanging onto
                  the
                  > >safety strap.
                  >
                  > Thats because when hanging off the safety leash the kite keeps its
                  shape
                  > and still has tension on the main bridles. Its sort of like having
                  an
                  > inflatable sitting on its trailing edge in the water. There is
                  still lots
                  > of area facing the wind. For smaller kites it is okay because its a
                  small
                  > area, but for a large kite in higher winds it will pull.
                  >
                  > >The method to depower the kite described by Marc Munzer should
                  work
                  > >fine on the water, but I doubt it will work on land or on snow.
                  >
                  > It should work just as well on land as on water. The only
                  difference is
                  > that on water it will more likely stay stuck to the water and not
                  flop
                  > around as much. The amount of depower would be the same.
                  >
                  > > I have rigged a system to do this on my Wipika AB 16.4. I
                  > >would like to do the same for my MA 16.
                  >
                  > How did you rig up your Wipika?
                  >
                  > >By the way, the stock safety strap is a joke. The plastic buckle
                  > >should be replaced with a decent wrist strap or a small snap
                  shackle
                  > >that could be attached directly to your harness.
                  >
                  > I think the idea with the safety strap is that you attach it to your
                  > harness, not your wrist. At least thats what I do. I agree though
                  that it
                  > should be replaced with a quick release. Especially with the newer
                  kites
                  > which pull more when the safety system is activated.
                  >
                  > Best regards,
                  >
                  > Marc
                  > GoExtreme.dk
                • Marc Munzer
                  Hi Kenny, I believe that it is almost the same whether you attach to the front line or the back line with an inflatable? If you wanted to have the same setup
                  Message 8 of 10 , Apr 2, 2002
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                    Hi Kenny,

                    I believe that it is almost the same whether you attach to the front line
                    or the back line with an inflatable? If you wanted to have the same setup
                    on your mastair you could also connect a leash to one brake line on your
                    flysurfer setup.

                    However the beauty of the flysurfer system is that when you let go of the
                    bar the kite lands with less power and not all tangled. You just pull in
                    the leash and start again. When you let go of the bar with an inflatable,
                    you usually end up with a mess, the ones I have seen anyways. I have never
                    tried one of the new aftermarket systems.

                    I always look at the flysurfer system as a three stage safety system. The
                    first is deployment of the leash. This usually lets me sort out whatever is
                    wrong (usually me being dragged head first underwater). The second stage is
                    pulling in the brake line which results in a mess but almost no power (only
                    if the wind goes above wind limit for kite). The third is release the kite
                    (if the wind really picks up...)

                    I would agree that it would be nice if somebody could develop a new safety
                    system which would completely depower the kite and not result in a mess,
                    but I haven't seen any better systems available. But the foil people are
                    working on it... For you paraglider pilots out there, what happens when you
                    pull in your C risers on your paraglider? The possibilities are out there....

                    Best regards

                    Marc
                    GoExtreme.dk

                    At 23:57 01/04/02 -0000, you wrote:
                    >Marc,
                    >
                    >I use the version 3 of Mel Mods for my 16.4 AB. This safety system
                    >allows you to connect to the front line. This allows you to almost
                    >completely depower the kite.
                    >
                    >Kenny
                    >
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