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Arc 1120 / 840 stack

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  • James Forster
    Hi guys I posted a similar ? sometime ago about stacking an 840 & a 630 but I never got around to it. I now have an 1120 and I am looking to stack it with my
    Message 1 of 28 , Mar 1 5:38 AM
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      Hi guys
      I posted a similar ? sometime ago about stacking an 840 & a 630 but I never got around to it. I now have an 1120 and I am looking to stack it with my 840 tomorrow (Saturday) here in Perth at Pinnaroo point where 12 to 18 kt winds have been forecast. I weigh around 68 kg and will be using a narrow directional board. Does this mix sound about right?
      Will I be overpowered,be able go up wind? I assume they will have to be flown completely depowered. I made up a set of 8 metre stacking lines salvaged from an inversion that got ugly, using the light stuff for the rears . I did'nt have enough of the heavier stuff to make up all four lines . I'm hoping this will be ok.
      Your input please .
      Thanks in anticipation James.


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • kitesurfbali
      Ciao james, be carefull with the staking, first be sure that your rear stacking line had to be about 10 cm longer then the front stacking line. Also I can tell
      Message 2 of 28 , Mar 1 8:42 AM
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        Ciao james,
        be carefull with the staking, first be sure that your rear stacking
        line had to be about 10 cm longer then the front stacking line.
        Also I can tell you that at 12 knot you will be already starting to
        be overpowered..... Also the stacking is pulling really downwind as
        the kite will position itself deep in the power zone and is very hard
        to make them going to the edge of the window where you get the best
        up-wind performance....
        So my suggestion is to be very carefull with the wind power and the
        line, they still must be strong as the normal line as there is a lot
        of pull also between the 2 kites....
        If you are interested for your light wind day, I have an ARC 1510
        used few times that I bought from Neil of Hold the line kite....
        I'm going to send it back to him for help me to sell it, maybe give a
        look you can save some money I like to get 1200 A$. Is brain new,
        used only 6 times, you can check the condition when it will be in
        Neil shop.
        Bye Jankie



        > Hi guys
        > I posted a similar ? sometime ago about stacking
        an 840 & a 630 but I never got around to it. I now have an 1120 and
        I am looking to stack it with my 840 tomorrow (Saturday) here in
        Perth at Pinnaroo point where 12 to 18 kt winds have been forecast. I
        weigh around 68 kg and will be using a narrow directional board. Does
        this mix sound about right?
        > Will I be overpowered,be able go up wind? I assume they will have
        to be flown completely depowered. I made up a set of 8 metre
        stacking lines salvaged from an inversion that got ugly, using the
        light stuff for the rears . I did'nt have enough of the heavier stuff
        to make up all four lines . I'm hoping this will be ok.
        > Your input
        please .

        >
        Thanks in
        anticipation James.
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • loco4viento
        Hey James, Here s what I have to tell you... I like my rear stack lines about 10-20 cm longer than the fronts, so I made a little pigtail leader for the rear
        Message 3 of 28 , Mar 1 11:52 AM
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          Hey James,

          Here's what I have to tell you...

          I like my rear stack lines about 10-20 cm longer than the fronts, so
          I made a little pigtail leader for the rear attachment points with a
          couple of knots to play with...then my actual stack lines are all the
          same length and it makes for an easier time rigging.

          I'd cut your lines in half, go with 4m lines, all the strong stuff
          and interchangeable, also for quicker hassle-free rigging. I've used
          as short as 2m (a bit too short); my current stack lines are 5m. I
          like them shorter than 7 or 8 meters as they keep things neat and the
          stack flies even more like one big kite.

          I think in 15 knots you'll wish you were flying only one kite.
          However, I'll bet in about 7 or 8 knots up to about 12 you'll LOVE
          it, and from 12-15 you'll be holding your own and hoping the wind
          dies down a bit.

          Preinflate as well as you can. If you are already accustomed to
          launching off a tip, do it that way; otherwise go with the straight
          downwind launch if that's your normal routine. Most importantly,
          control the ascent of the stack...REAL SLOWLY all the way, don't
          let'em get way up there until they are pretty full.

          I find the stack goes upwind GREAT and pulls well to the edge of the
          window. You want to see the rear stack lines slightly slack to assure
          yourself that the top kite has no brakes applied.

          Have fun...keep it SLOOOOOW on the launch, and if it's looking to be
          more than about 13 knots I'd just stick with the 1120.

          John

          --- In kitesurf@y..., "James Forster" <jamesforster@b...> wrote:
          > Hi guys
          > I posted a similar ? sometime ago about stacking
          an 840 & a 630 but I never got around to it. I now have an 1120 and
          I am looking to stack it with my 840 tomorrow (Saturday) here in
          Perth at Pinnaroo point where 12 to 18 kt winds have been forecast. I
          weigh around 68 kg and will be using a narrow directional board. Does
          this mix sound about right?
          > Will I be overpowered,be able go up wind? I assume they will have
          to be flown completely depowered. I made up a set of 8 metre
          stacking lines salvaged from an inversion that got ugly, using the
          light stuff for the rears . I did'nt have enough of the heavier stuff
          to make up all four lines . I'm hoping this will be ok.
          > Your input
          please .

          >
          Thanks in
          anticipation James.
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Kitepower
          Watched JB (John Messenger) using the Aero 20M in the puddle known as Narrabeen lake, wind was barely 8knots and he was doing runs across the mouth of the lake
          Message 4 of 28 , Mar 1 2:34 PM
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            Watched JB (John Messenger) using the Aero 20M in the puddle known as
            Narrabeen lake, wind was barely 8knots and he was doing runs across the
            mouth of the lake (approx 50M wide)!!
            It was great to watch as he would go right to edge and then do transition
            moves, occasionally getting a jump of 10' or so. He is a pleasure to watch,
            awesome kite control in such a tight spot.
            I got to fly the kite on land when he had a rest, it is like a 12.0 the way
            it turns and flies fast for a big kite. JB normally uses ARX, but does not
            like the big ones, over 15.5, he says this will be his light wind
            competition kite now!
            I saw him drop it and it re-launched quickly and easily, in the wind that
            was there that was very impressive too!
            Cya and
            Goodwinds
            Steve McCormack
            http://www.kitepower.com.au
            mailto:sydney@...
            126 Beach St, Coogee, NSW, Australia 2034
            Open 7 Days 9.30 - 5.30
            Also at 386 Latrobe Terrace Geelong Vic
            mailto:geelong@...
          • kujira99jp
            Hi James, I ve used the 1120/840 combo a few times now and I am always awed by the power it has. I only need enough wind to keep the kites in the air, which
            Message 5 of 28 , Mar 1 5:21 PM
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              Hi James,
              I've used the 1120/840 combo a few times now and I am always awed by
              the power it has. I only need enough wind to keep the kites in the
              air, which would be around 7 knots minimum, and I can easily get
              upwind without having to sine the stack at all. Actually it parks
              really easily but the tendancy to 'auto zenith' is quite strong and I
              have to make some effort to keep it down. Relaunch seems easier than
              a single one, as the 2 kites seem to help each other get out of the
              water! That is, unless the wind is really weak and then you're in
              for a really shitty swim back with 20+ square metres of air mattress.
              I'm definitely getting overpowered the minute I see any whitecaps,
              even small ones, so I'd say my max is 12 knots, and at that point the
              pressure on my legs is huge. I'm 58kgs and use a medium sized twin
              tip. My stack lines are 5 metres, equal length, but my attachment
              point on the spars are equal too- I added another attachment point on
              the 1120. Works really well. Have fun but don't try and launch this
              stack in 18 knots or you won't come back down!!
              Cheers, Jason.

              --- In kitesurf@y..., "James Forster" <jamesforster@b...> wrote:
              > Hi guys
              > I posted a similar ? sometime ago about stacking
              an 840 & a 630 but I never got around to it. I now have an 1120 and
              I am looking to stack it with my 840 tomorrow (Saturday) here in
              Perth at Pinnaroo point where 12 to 18 kt winds have been forecast. I
              weigh around 68 kg and will be using a narrow directional board. Does
              this mix sound about right?
              > Will I be overpowered,be able go up wind? I assume they will have
              to be flown completely depowered. I made up a set of 8 metre
              stacking lines salvaged from an inversion that got ugly, using the
              light stuff for the rears . I did'nt have enough of the heavier stuff
              to make up all four lines . I'm hoping this will be ok.
              > Your input
              please .

              >
              Thanks in
              anticipation James.
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Kitepower
              How many times have you used your kites stacked? How many times would you have re-launched them off the water, in water too deep to stand up in, and after
              Message 6 of 28 , Mar 1 7:51 PM
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                How many times have you used your kites stacked?
                How many times would you have re-launched them off the water, in water too
                deep to stand up in, and after crashing them on the water?
                Have you ever crashed them LE down, and been able to re-launch?


                Cya and
                Goodwinds
                Steve McCormack
                http://www.kitepower.com.au
                mailto:sydney@...
                Open 7 days
                126 Beach St, Coogee, Sydney, Australia 2034
                Phone +61293157894

                -----Original Message-----
                From: kujira99jp [mailto:kujira99@...]
                Sent: 02 March, 2002 12:22 PM
                To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [ksurf] Re: Arc 1120 / 840 stack


                Hi James,
                I've used the 1120/840 combo a few times now and I am always awed by
                the power it has. I only need enough wind to keep the kites in the
                air, which would be around 7 knots minimum, and I can easily get
                upwind without having to sine the stack at all. Actually it parks
                really easily but the tendancy to 'auto zenith' is quite strong and I
                have to make some effort to keep it down. Relaunch seems easier than
                a single one, as the 2 kites seem to help each other get out of the
                water! That is, unless the wind is really weak and then you're in
                for a really shitty swim back with 20+ square metres of air mattress.
                I'm definitely getting overpowered the minute I see any whitecaps,
                even small ones, so I'd say my max is 12 knots, and at that point the
                pressure on my legs is huge. I'm 58kgs and use a medium sized twin
                tip. My stack lines are 5 metres, equal length, but my attachment
                point on the spars are equal too- I added another attachment point on
                the 1120. Works really well. Have fun but don't try and launch this
                stack in 18 knots or you won't come back down!!
                Cheers, Jason.

                --- In kitesurf@y..., "James Forster" <jamesforster@b...> wrote:
                > Hi guys
                > I posted a similar ? sometime ago about stacking
                an 840 & a 630 but I never got around to it. I now have an 1120 and
                I am looking to stack it with my 840 tomorrow (Saturday) here in
                Perth at Pinnaroo point where 12 to 18 kt winds have been forecast. I
                weigh around 68 kg and will be using a narrow directional board. Does
                this mix sound about right?
                > Will I be overpowered,be able go up wind? I assume they will have
                to be flown completely depowered. I made up a set of 8 metre
                stacking lines salvaged from an inversion that got ugly, using the
                light stuff for the rears . I did'nt have enough of the heavier stuff
                to make up all four lines . I'm hoping this will be ok.
                > Your input
                please .

                >
                Thanks in
                anticipation James.
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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              • loco4viento
                Hey Steve, I know you didn t ask me, but good question nonetheless, and I wouldn t mind other stackers answering it too. I ve probably spent about 75-100 hours
                Message 7 of 28 , Mar 2 2:03 AM
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                  Hey Steve,

                  I know you didn't ask me, but good question nonetheless, and I
                  wouldn't mind other stackers answering it too.

                  I've probably spent about 75-100 hours kitesurfing under my 1120/840
                  stack, some of it in the pre-wedge days and some of it since (maybe
                  half and half???). I don't keep a close log of how many exact hours,
                  but rather count by skin wrinkles, skin cancers, hair loss and
                  occasionally carbon-14 dating techniques for the longer sessions.

                  I've never crashed them yet and so I can't tell you about relaunch.
                  But I can tell you that everything I've heard from you (collectively)
                  kite guys about the stability of stacks became evident almost
                  immediately during my first stack flight over a year ago. The
                  1120/840 is incredibly easy to fly and more stable than I ever
                  imagined.

                  I occasionally read posts about the stack not flying to the edge of
                  the window, but I find the stack pulls well toward the edge. My
                  interpretation is that in super light winds (like when you're
                  kitesurfing with a stack and a single arc wouldn't work) the apparent
                  wind effects are WAY more significant than in any other situation;
                  this limits upwind progress and also makes the kite appear to be
                  farther back in the window, when in actuality the window is really
                  shifted due to the direction of apparent wind. As a kite guy, does
                  this make sense to you Steve, or do you think I'm misinterpreting my
                  experiences? Anybody else?

                  The relaunch issue with a stack is almost a non-issue for me since
                  the stack is so incredibly stable and easy to fly. Of course, it's
                  only a matter of time before I'm doing the "swim of shame" with my
                  soggy 20m of ripstop, so I still only kitesurf as far as I'm willing
                  to risk swimming (which is a good idea for any kitesurfing session).

                  John

                  --- In kitesurf@y..., "Kitepower" <kitepower@b...> wrote:
                  > How many times have you used your kites stacked?
                  > How many times would you have re-launched them off the water, in
                  water too
                  > deep to stand up in, and after crashing them on the water?
                  > Have you ever crashed them LE down, and been able to re-launch?
                  >
                  >
                  > Cya and
                  > Goodwinds
                  > Steve McCormack
                  > http://www.kitepower.com.au
                  > mailto:sydney@k...
                  > Open 7 days
                  > 126 Beach St, Coogee, Sydney, Australia 2034
                  > Phone +61293157894
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: kujira99jp [mailto:kujira99@h...]
                  > Sent: 02 March, 2002 12:22 PM
                  > To: kitesurf@y...
                  > Subject: [ksurf] Re: Arc 1120 / 840 stack
                  >
                  >
                  > Hi James,
                  > I've used the 1120/840 combo a few times now and I am always awed by
                  > the power it has. I only need enough wind to keep the kites in the
                  > air, which would be around 7 knots minimum, and I can easily get
                  > upwind without having to sine the stack at all. Actually it parks
                  > really easily but the tendancy to 'auto zenith' is quite strong and
                  I
                  > have to make some effort to keep it down. Relaunch seems easier
                  than
                  > a single one, as the 2 kites seem to help each other get out of the
                  > water! That is, unless the wind is really weak and then you're in
                  > for a really shitty swim back with 20+ square metres of air
                  mattress.
                  > I'm definitely getting overpowered the minute I see any whitecaps,
                  > even small ones, so I'd say my max is 12 knots, and at that point
                  the
                  > pressure on my legs is huge. I'm 58kgs and use a medium sized twin
                  > tip. My stack lines are 5 metres, equal length, but my attachment
                  > point on the spars are equal too- I added another attachment point
                  on
                  > the 1120. Works really well. Have fun but don't try and launch
                  this
                  > stack in 18 knots or you won't come back down!!
                  > Cheers, Jason.
                  >
                  > --- In kitesurf@y..., "James Forster" <jamesforster@b...> wrote:
                  > > Hi guys
                  > > I posted a similar ? sometime ago about stacking
                  > an 840 & a 630 but I never got around to it. I now have an 1120 and
                  > I am looking to stack it with my 840 tomorrow (Saturday) here in
                  > Perth at Pinnaroo point where 12 to 18 kt winds have been forecast.
                  I
                  > weigh around 68 kg and will be using a narrow directional board.
                  Does
                  > this mix sound about right?
                  > > Will I be overpowered,be able go up wind? I assume they will have
                  > to be flown completely depowered. I made up a set of 8 metre
                  > stacking lines salvaged from an inversion that got ugly, using the
                  > light stuff for the rears . I did'nt have enough of the heavier
                  stuff
                  > to make up all four lines . I'm hoping this will be ok.
                  > > Your input
                  > please .
                  >
                  > >
                  > Thanks in
                  > anticipation James.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  > <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@e...>>>
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                  http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                • kujira99jp
                  So far I ve used this stack around 10 times I guess (only been kitesurfing for a year), and had to relaunch probably 3 or 4 times- I say relaunch because
                  Message 8 of 28 , Mar 2 4:07 AM
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                    So far I've used this stack around 10 times I guess (only been
                    kitesurfing for a year), and had to 'relaunch' probably 3 or 4 times-
                    I say 'relaunch' because it basically does it by itself, when the
                    kites are in the drink they kind of hold each other's tips open and
                    in a short while up it goes again. When stacking I've never had it do
                    the Mexican taco thing yet. I nearly always kitesurf in water too
                    deep to stand up in, that includes when I use this stack. I've never
                    crashed them LE down so cannot comment on relaunchability in that
                    case, I imagine it'd be pretty frustrating in such light wind
                    though. As I wrote before, it takes an effort to keep it low to the
                    water and I don't need to sine it at all- the times I crashed it was
                    due to pilot error, I dragged a tip when trying to keep it low enough
                    to prevent overpowering in around 12 knots!
                    I've swum back twice with it, that was due to the wind dropping below
                    the required minimum to keep it up in the air, it backed down and
                    that was it, game over.
                    Jason


                    --- In kitesurf@y..., "Kitepower" <kitepower@b...> wrote:
                    > How many times have you used your kites stacked?
                    > How many times would you have re-launched them off the water, in
                    water too
                    > deep to stand up in, and after crashing them on the water?
                    > Have you ever crashed them LE down, and been able to re-launch?
                    >
                    >
                    > Cya and
                    > Goodwinds
                    > Steve McCormack
                  • Kitepower
                    G day John, Jason & James I asked those questions out of curiosity and scepticism (about the relaunching)!! ;-) It think it is obvious that the crashes any of
                    Message 9 of 28 , Mar 2 1:11 PM
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                      G'day John, Jason & James
                      I asked those questions out of curiosity and scepticism (about the
                      relaunching)!! ;-)
                      It think it is obvious that the crashes any of you have had where the kites
                      re-launch easily is when you have just put them in on the side, not LE or TE
                      down. I would say that every sled style kite, including inflatos, will
                      re-launch easily from this position, provided the tips don't stick or fall
                      together on the arc stack.
                      I think Johns advice regarding not going further from shore than you are
                      prepared to swim is very wise!

                      Regarding Johns experience of light wind kiting, I think what you are
                      experiencing is the fact that the real wind window shrinks in size, in light
                      winds.
                      You can visually see the window shrinks by flying any kite in light winds
                      and see how far to either side of you, the kite will fly, put a mark in the
                      sand at the angle where the kite stops or will park.
                      If you were suddenly able to turn the wind up to 15 - 20 knots and fly the
                      same kite, you would see that the marks in the sand would need to be moved
                      much further out, good kites will give you very close to a 180 degree wind
                      window.
                      I hope you can understand this simple explanation?
                      So anyway no kites fly to windward as well in light winds, going upwind is
                      still possible, but much more difficult, if there are lulls that
                      substantially lower you speed.

                      I have only flown arc stacks on land on a couple of occasions, but I have
                      witnessed several successful sessions. The one crash I saw the kites laid
                      flat on the water and it was all over.
                      I would agree that an arc stack is even more stable than a single kite, I
                      think that has something to do with the auto zenithing of arcs.

                      One of the reasons I asked about re-launching, and I hope you remaining
                      arcers here will back me up, is that stacking should not be attempted by
                      beginners who are still not confident sailors (able to self launch, water
                      start, go upwind, turn without falling), agreed?


                      Cya and
                      Goodwinds
                      Steve McCormack
                      http://www.kitepower.com.au
                      mailto:sydney@...
                      126 Beach St, Coogee, NSW, Australia 2034
                      Open 7 Days 9.30 - 5.30
                      Also at 386 Latrobe Terrace Geelong Vic
                      mailto:geelong@...

                      * -----Original Message-----
                      * From: loco4viento [mailto:loco4viento@...]
                      * Sent: Saturday, 2 March 2002 9:04
                      * To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                      * Subject: [ksurf] Re: Arc 1120 / 840 stack
                      *
                      *
                      * Hey Steve,
                      *
                      * I know you didn't ask me, but good question nonetheless, and I
                      * wouldn't mind other stackers answering it too.
                      *
                      * I've probably spent about 75-100 hours kitesurfing under my 1120/840
                      * stack, some of it in the pre-wedge days and some of it since (maybe
                      * half and half???). I don't keep a close log of how many exact hours,
                      * but rather count by skin wrinkles, skin cancers, hair loss and
                      * occasionally carbon-14 dating techniques for the longer sessions.
                      *
                      * I've never crashed them yet and so I can't tell you about relaunch.
                      * But I can tell you that everything I've heard from you (collectively)
                      * kite guys about the stability of stacks became evident almost
                      * immediately during my first stack flight over a year ago. The
                      * 1120/840 is incredibly easy to fly and more stable than I ever
                      * imagined.
                      *
                      * I occasionally read posts about the stack not flying to the edge of
                      * the window, but I find the stack pulls well toward the edge. My
                      * interpretation is that in super light winds (like when you're
                      * kitesurfing with a stack and a single arc wouldn't work) the apparent
                      * wind effects are WAY more significant than in any other situation;
                      * this limits upwind progress and also makes the kite appear to be
                      * farther back in the window, when in actuality the window is really
                      * shifted due to the direction of apparent wind. As a kite guy, does
                      * this make sense to you Steve, or do you think I'm misinterpreting my
                      * experiences? Anybody else?
                      *
                      * The relaunch issue with a stack is almost a non-issue for me since
                      * the stack is so incredibly stable and easy to fly. Of course, it's
                      * only a matter of time before I'm doing the "swim of shame" with my
                      * soggy 20m of ripstop, so I still only kitesurf as far as I'm willing
                      * to risk swimming (which is a good idea for any kitesurfing session).
                      *
                      * John
                      *
                      * --- In kitesurf@y..., "Kitepower" <kitepower@b...> wrote:
                      * > How many times have you used your kites stacked?
                      * > How many times would you have re-launched them off the water, in
                      * water too
                      * > deep to stand up in, and after crashing them on the water?
                      * > Have you ever crashed them LE down, and been able to re-launch?
                      * >
                      * >
                      * > Cya and
                      * > Goodwinds
                      * > Steve McCormack
                      * > http://www.kitepower.com.au
                      * > mailto:sydney@k...
                      * > Open 7 days
                      * > 126 Beach St, Coogee, Sydney, Australia 2034
                      * > Phone +61293157894
                      * >
                      * > -----Original Message-----
                      * > From: kujira99jp [mailto:kujira99@h...]
                      * > Sent: 02 March, 2002 12:22 PM
                      * > To: kitesurf@y...
                      * > Subject: [ksurf] Re: Arc 1120 / 840 stack
                      * >
                      * >
                      * > Hi James,
                      * > I've used the 1120/840 combo a few times now and I am always awed by
                      * > the power it has. I only need enough wind to keep the kites in the
                      * > air, which would be around 7 knots minimum, and I can easily get
                      * > upwind without having to sine the stack at all. Actually it parks
                      * > really easily but the tendancy to 'auto zenith' is quite strong and
                      * I
                      * > have to make some effort to keep it down. Relaunch seems easier
                      * than
                      * > a single one, as the 2 kites seem to help each other get out of the
                      * > water! That is, unless the wind is really weak and then you're in
                      * > for a really shitty swim back with 20+ square metres of air
                      * mattress.
                      * > I'm definitely getting overpowered the minute I see any whitecaps,
                      * > even small ones, so I'd say my max is 12 knots, and at that point
                      * the
                      * > pressure on my legs is huge. I'm 58kgs and use a medium sized twin
                      * > tip. My stack lines are 5 metres, equal length, but my attachment
                      * > point on the spars are equal too- I added another attachment point
                      * on
                      * > the 1120. Works really well. Have fun but don't try and launch
                      * this
                      * > stack in 18 knots or you won't come back down!!
                      * > Cheers, Jason.
                      * >
                      * > --- In kitesurf@y..., "James Forster" <jamesforster@b...> wrote:
                      * > > Hi guys
                      * > > I posted a similar ? sometime ago about stacking
                      * > an 840 & a 630 but I never got around to it. I now have an 1120 and
                      * > I am looking to stack it with my 840 tomorrow (Saturday) here in
                      * > Perth at Pinnaroo point where 12 to 18 kt winds have been forecast.
                      * I
                      * > weigh around 68 kg and will be using a narrow directional board.
                      * Does
                      * > this mix sound about right?
                      * > > Will I be overpowered,be able go up wind? I assume they will have
                      * > to be flown completely depowered. I made up a set of 8 metre
                      * > stacking lines salvaged from an inversion that got ugly, using the
                      * > light stuff for the rears . I did'nt have enough of the heavier
                      * stuff
                      * > to make up all four lines . I'm hoping this will be ok.
                      * > > Your input
                      * > please .
                      * >
                      * > >
                      * > Thanks in
                      * > anticipation James.
                      * > >
                      * > >
                      * > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      * >
                      * >
                      * > <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@e...>>>
                      * >
                      * > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                      * http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      *
                      *
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                      *
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                      *
                    • kujira99jp
                      Agreed! Jason ... remaining ... attempted by ... water
                      Message 10 of 28 , Mar 2 4:03 PM
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Agreed!
                        Jason

                        > One of the reasons I asked about re-launching, and I hope you
                        remaining
                        > arcers here will back me up, is that stacking should not be
                        attempted by
                        > beginners who are still not confident sailors (able to self launch,
                        water
                        > start, go upwind, turn without falling), agreed?
                        >
                        >
                        > Cya and
                        > Goodwinds
                        > Steve McCormack
                      • darcedarce
                        ... water too ... I ve flown an 840/630 stack around 10-15 times now, had to relaunch twice - both times LE down. The first time went no problems, the second
                        Message 11 of 28 , Mar 2 7:03 PM
                        • 0 Attachment
                          --- In kitesurf@y..., "Kitepower" <kitepower@b...> wrote:
                          > How many times have you used your kites stacked?
                          > How many times would you have re-launched them off the water, in
                          water too
                          > deep to stand up in, and after crashing them on the water?
                          > Have you ever crashed them LE down, and been able to re-launch?

                          I've flown an 840/630 stack around 10-15 times now, had to relaunch
                          twice - both times LE down. The first time went no problems, the
                          second time saw the 840 inverting before launch, but I was able to
                          haul in on the front lines and get it right way up (albeit twisted
                          through it's lines) and relaunch ok.

                          I solo launch the kites mainly, and have found that a tip launch
                          downwind works the best.
                        • fernmanus
                          Steve, Do you have any idea of what the aspect ratio is on the 20 M Aero? How does the responsiveness of the kite compare with the 16.4 Wipika Airblast? Thanks
                          Message 12 of 28 , Mar 5 4:24 PM
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Steve,

                            Do you have any idea of what the aspect ratio is on the 20 M Aero?

                            How does the responsiveness of the kite compare with the 16.4 Wipika
                            Airblast?

                            Thanks much!

                            Kenny

                            --- In kitesurf@y..., "Kitepower" <kitepower@b...> wrote:
                            > Watched JB (John Messenger) using the Aero 20M in the puddle known
                            as
                            > Narrabeen lake, wind was barely 8knots and he was doing runs across
                            the
                            > mouth of the lake (approx 50M wide)!!
                            > It was great to watch as he would go right to edge and then do
                            transition
                            > moves, occasionally getting a jump of 10' or so. He is a pleasure
                            to watch,
                            > awesome kite control in such a tight spot.
                            > I got to fly the kite on land when he had a rest, it is like a 12.0
                            the way
                            > it turns and flies fast for a big kite. JB normally uses ARX, but
                            does not
                            > like the big ones, over 15.5, he says this will be his light wind
                            > competition kite now!
                            > I saw him drop it and it re-launched quickly and easily, in the
                            wind that
                            > was there that was very impressive too!
                            > Cya and
                            > Goodwinds
                            > Steve McCormack
                            > http://www.kitepower.com.au
                            > mailto:sydney@k...
                            > 126 Beach St, Coogee, NSW, Australia 2034
                            > Open 7 Days 9.30 - 5.30
                            > Also at 386 Latrobe Terrace Geelong Vic
                            > mailto:geelong@k...
                          • Kitepower
                            I have only flown a 16.4 on land, I have a friend who has one. There is no comparison! The AR of the Aero would be high 4 s IMO. I have only flown the Aero 20
                            Message 13 of 28 , Mar 6 2:35 PM
                            • 0 Attachment
                              I have only flown a 16.4 on land, I have a friend who has one. There is no
                              comparison!
                              The AR of the Aero would be high 4's IMO. I have only flown the Aero 20 on
                              land, but I stood only metres away from Australia's best rider watching him
                              put it through its paces in a 50M wide pool of water. Try that with an
                              AB16.4 and you will slam into the rocks on either side like the person on
                              the 21.5 Naish ARX!!!

                              Cya and
                              Goodwinds
                              Steve McCormack
                              http://www.kitepower.com.au
                              mailto:sydney@...
                              126 Beach St, Coogee, NSW, Australia 2034
                              Open 7 Days 9.30 - 5.30
                              Also at 386 Latrobe Terrace Geelong Vic
                              mailto:geelong@...

                              * -----Original Message-----
                              * From: fernmanus [mailto:fernmanus@...]
                              * Sent: Wednesday, 6 March 2002 11:24
                              * To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                              * Subject: [ksurf] Re: Aero 20M
                              *
                              *
                              * Steve,
                              *
                              * Do you have any idea of what the aspect ratio is on the 20 M Aero?
                              *
                              * How does the responsiveness of the kite compare with the 16.4 Wipika
                              * Airblast?
                              *
                              * Thanks much!
                              *
                              * Kenny
                              *
                              * --- In kitesurf@y..., "Kitepower" <kitepower@b...> wrote:
                              * > Watched JB (John Messenger) using the Aero 20M in the puddle known
                              * as
                              * > Narrabeen lake, wind was barely 8knots and he was doing runs across
                              * the
                              * > mouth of the lake (approx 50M wide)!!
                              * > It was great to watch as he would go right to edge and then do
                              * transition
                              * > moves, occasionally getting a jump of 10' or so. He is a pleasure
                              * to watch,
                              * > awesome kite control in such a tight spot.
                              * > I got to fly the kite on land when he had a rest, it is like a 12.0
                              * the way
                              * > it turns and flies fast for a big kite. JB normally uses ARX, but
                              * does not
                              * > like the big ones, over 15.5, he says this will be his light wind
                              * > competition kite now!
                              * > I saw him drop it and it re-launched quickly and easily, in the
                              * wind that
                              * > was there that was very impressive too!
                              * > Cya and
                              * > Goodwinds
                              * > Steve McCormack
                              * > http://www.kitepower.com.au
                              * > mailto:sydney@k...
                              * > 126 Beach St, Coogee, NSW, Australia 2034
                              * > Open 7 Days 9.30 - 5.30
                              * > Also at 386 Latrobe Terrace Geelong Vic
                              * > mailto:geelong@k...
                              *
                              *
                              * <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>
                              *
                              * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                              *
                              *
                            • peter_frank_dk
                              Steve, have you flown the 2002 16.4 Airblast ? We have not got the 16.4 here yet, only the smaller sizes. The 2002 11.8 is much quicker turning than the 2001
                              Message 14 of 28 , Mar 6 2:55 PM
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                                Steve, have you flown the 2002 16.4 Airblast ?

                                We have not got the 16.4 here yet, only the smaller sizes.

                                The 2002 11.8 is much quicker turning than the 2001 11.8 (which was
                                not bad turning either) - what about the 16.4 - is it noticable
                                quicker too, or not ???

                                :-) Peter

                                --- In kitesurf@y..., "Kitepower" <kitepower@b...> wrote:
                                > I have only flown a 16.4 on land, I have a friend who has one.
                                There is no
                                > comparison!
                                > The AR of the Aero would be high 4's IMO. I have only flown the
                                Aero 20 on
                                > land, but I stood only metres away from Australia's best rider
                                watching him
                                > put it through its paces in a 50M wide pool of water. Try that with
                                an
                                > AB16.4 and you will slam into the rocks on either side like the
                                person on
                                > the 21.5 Naish ARX!!!
                                >
                                > Cya and
                                > Goodwinds
                                > Steve McCormack
                                > http://www.kitepower.com.au
                                > mailto:sydney@k...
                                > 126 Beach St, Coogee, NSW, Australia 2034
                                > Open 7 Days 9.30 - 5.30
                                > Also at 386 Latrobe Terrace Geelong Vic
                                > mailto:geelong@k...
                                >
                                > * -----Original Message-----
                                > * From: fernmanus [mailto:fernmanus@y...]
                                > * Sent: Wednesday, 6 March 2002 11:24
                                > * To: kitesurf@y...
                                > * Subject: [ksurf] Re: Aero 20M
                                > *
                                > *
                                > * Steve,
                                > *
                                > * Do you have any idea of what the aspect ratio is on the 20 M Aero?
                                > *
                                > * How does the responsiveness of the kite compare with the 16.4
                                Wipika
                                > * Airblast?
                                > *
                                > * Thanks much!
                                > *
                                > * Kenny
                                > *
                                > * --- In kitesurf@y..., "Kitepower" <kitepower@b...> wrote:
                                > * > Watched JB (John Messenger) using the Aero 20M in the puddle
                                known
                                > * as
                                > * > Narrabeen lake, wind was barely 8knots and he was doing runs
                                across
                                > * the
                                > * > mouth of the lake (approx 50M wide)!!
                                > * > It was great to watch as he would go right to edge and then do
                                > * transition
                                > * > moves, occasionally getting a jump of 10' or so. He is a
                                pleasure
                                > * to watch,
                                > * > awesome kite control in such a tight spot.
                                > * > I got to fly the kite on land when he had a rest, it is like a
                                12.0
                                > * the way
                                > * > it turns and flies fast for a big kite. JB normally uses ARX,
                                but
                                > * does not
                                > * > like the big ones, over 15.5, he says this will be his light
                                wind
                                > * > competition kite now!
                                > * > I saw him drop it and it re-launched quickly and easily, in the
                                > * wind that
                                > * > was there that was very impressive too!
                                > * > Cya and
                                > * > Goodwinds
                                > * > Steve McCormack
                                > * > http://www.kitepower.com.au
                                > * > mailto:sydney@k...
                                > * > 126 Beach St, Coogee, NSW, Australia 2034
                                > * > Open 7 Days 9.30 - 5.30
                                > * > Also at 386 Latrobe Terrace Geelong Vic
                                > * > mailto:geelong@k...
                                > *
                                > *
                                > * <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@e...>>>
                                > *
                                > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                > *
                                > *
                              • Kitepower
                                It was when the 16.4 first came out here early last year, a long time ago! I have not flown the new 2002 kite yet. Cya and Goodwinds Steve McCormack
                                Message 15 of 28 , Mar 6 3:16 PM
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  It was when the 16.4 first came out here early last year, a long time ago! I
                                  have not flown the new 2002 kite yet.

                                  Cya and
                                  Goodwinds
                                  Steve McCormack
                                  http://www.kitepower.com.au
                                  mailto:sydney@...
                                  Open 7 days
                                  126 Beach St, Coogee, Sydney, Australia 2034
                                  Phone +61293157894

                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: peter_frank_dk [mailto:pf@...]
                                  Sent: 07 March, 2002 9:56 AM
                                  To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Steve ! [ksurf] Re: Aero 20M


                                  Steve, have you flown the 2002 16.4 Airblast ?

                                  We have not got the 16.4 here yet, only the smaller sizes.

                                  The 2002 11.8 is much quicker turning than the 2001 11.8 (which was
                                  not bad turning either) - what about the 16.4 - is it noticable
                                  quicker too, or not ???

                                  :-) Peter

                                  --- In kitesurf@y..., "Kitepower" <kitepower@b...> wrote:
                                  > I have only flown a 16.4 on land, I have a friend who has one.
                                  There is no
                                  > comparison!
                                  > The AR of the Aero would be high 4's IMO. I have only flown the
                                  Aero 20 on
                                  > land, but I stood only metres away from Australia's best rider
                                  watching him
                                  > put it through its paces in a 50M wide pool of water. Try that with
                                  an
                                  > AB16.4 and you will slam into the rocks on either side like the
                                  person on
                                  > the 21.5 Naish ARX!!!
                                  >
                                  > Cya and
                                  > Goodwinds
                                  > Steve McCormack
                                  > http://www.kitepower.com.au
                                  > mailto:sydney@k...
                                  > 126 Beach St, Coogee, NSW, Australia 2034
                                  > Open 7 Days 9.30 - 5.30
                                  > Also at 386 Latrobe Terrace Geelong Vic
                                  > mailto:geelong@k...
                                  >
                                  > * -----Original Message-----
                                  > * From: fernmanus [mailto:fernmanus@y...]
                                  > * Sent: Wednesday, 6 March 2002 11:24
                                  > * To: kitesurf@y...
                                  > * Subject: [ksurf] Re: Aero 20M
                                  > *
                                  > *
                                  > * Steve,
                                  > *
                                  > * Do you have any idea of what the aspect ratio is on the 20 M Aero?
                                  > *
                                  > * How does the responsiveness of the kite compare with the 16.4
                                  Wipika
                                  > * Airblast?
                                  > *
                                  > * Thanks much!
                                  > *
                                  > * Kenny
                                  > *
                                  > * --- In kitesurf@y..., "Kitepower" <kitepower@b...> wrote:
                                  > * > Watched JB (John Messenger) using the Aero 20M in the puddle
                                  known
                                  > * as
                                  > * > Narrabeen lake, wind was barely 8knots and he was doing runs
                                  across
                                  > * the
                                  > * > mouth of the lake (approx 50M wide)!!
                                  > * > It was great to watch as he would go right to edge and then do
                                  > * transition
                                  > * > moves, occasionally getting a jump of 10' or so. He is a
                                  pleasure
                                  > * to watch,
                                  > * > awesome kite control in such a tight spot.
                                  > * > I got to fly the kite on land when he had a rest, it is like a
                                  12.0
                                  > * the way
                                  > * > it turns and flies fast for a big kite. JB normally uses ARX,
                                  but
                                  > * does not
                                  > * > like the big ones, over 15.5, he says this will be his light
                                  wind
                                  > * > competition kite now!
                                  > * > I saw him drop it and it re-launched quickly and easily, in the
                                  > * wind that
                                  > * > was there that was very impressive too!
                                  > * > Cya and
                                  > * > Goodwinds
                                  > * > Steve McCormack
                                  > * > http://www.kitepower.com.au
                                  > * > mailto:sydney@k...
                                  > * > 126 Beach St, Coogee, NSW, Australia 2034
                                  > * > Open 7 Days 9.30 - 5.30
                                  > * > Also at 386 Latrobe Terrace Geelong Vic
                                  > * > mailto:geelong@k...
                                  > *
                                  > *
                                  > * <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@e...>>>
                                  > *
                                  > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                  http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                  > *
                                  > *


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                                • Stefano.
                                  ... i didnt understand what you meant by that ... what do you mean slam into the rocks ? why ?
                                  Message 16 of 28 , Mar 7 2:35 PM
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Kitepower wrote:

                                    > I have only flown a 16.4 on land, I have a friend who has one. There is no
                                    > comparison!
                                    > The AR of the Aero would be high 4's IMO. I have only flown the Aero 20 on
                                    > land, but I stood only metres away from Australia's best rider watching him
                                    > put it through its paces in a 50M wide pool of water. Try that with an
                                    > AB16.4 and you will slam into the rocks on either side like the person on
                                    > the 21.5 Naish ARX!!!

                                    i didnt understand what you meant by that ... what do you mean slam into the
                                    rocks ? why ?
                                  • Kitepower
                                    He could not turn the ARX, the pool of water they were riding in was no more than 50M wide, it had rocks and wire on each side. I also meant a 2001 16.4AB, I
                                    Message 17 of 28 , Mar 7 3:49 PM
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      He could not turn the ARX, the pool of water they were riding in was no more
                                      than 50M wide, it had rocks and wire on each side.
                                      I also meant a 2001 16.4AB, I have not flown the latest model.
                                      If the kite could not turn very quickly you could not ride in this tiny
                                      puddle of water, that's all I meant?

                                      Cya and
                                      Goodwinds
                                      Steve McCormack
                                      http://www.kitepower.com.au
                                      mailto:sydney@...
                                      Open 7 days
                                      126 Beach St, Coogee, Sydney, Australia 2034
                                      Phone +61293157894

                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: Stefano. [mailto:stefano@...]
                                      Sent: 08 March, 2002 9:35 AM
                                      To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: Re: [ksurf] Re: Aero 20M




                                      Kitepower wrote:

                                      > I have only flown a 16.4 on land, I have a friend who has one. There is no
                                      > comparison!
                                      > The AR of the Aero would be high 4's IMO. I have only flown the Aero 20 on
                                      > land, but I stood only metres away from Australia's best rider watching
                                      him
                                      > put it through its paces in a 50M wide pool of water. Try that with an
                                      > AB16.4 and you will slam into the rocks on either side like the person on
                                      > the 21.5 Naish ARX!!!

                                      i didnt understand what you meant by that ... what do you mean slam into the
                                      rocks ? why ?


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                                    • kiteboardingjapan
                                      ... was no more ... tiny ... Steve, I think it was the level of the rider that enabled him to ride in such a small space. I ve used the Aero 16 with the stock
                                      Message 18 of 28 , Mar 10 8:34 AM
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        --- In kitesurf@y..., "Kitepower" <kitepower@b...> wrote:
                                        > He could not turn the ARX, the pool of water they were riding in
                                        was no more
                                        > than 50M wide, it had rocks and wire on each side.
                                        > I also meant a 2001 16.4AB, I have not flown the latest model.
                                        > If the kite could not turn very quickly you could not ride in this
                                        tiny
                                        > puddle of water, that's all I meant?
                                        >
                                        > Cya and
                                        > Goodwinds
                                        > Steve McCormack

                                        Steve, I think it was the level of the rider that enabled him to ride
                                        in such a small space. I've used the Aero 16 with the stock bar, and
                                        it turned like a boat! I don't think that the 20m would be any better.

                                        Nick
                                      • Kitepower
                                        G day Nick The people riding in the puddle that day were all very experienced riders. The Aero 20M was the best turning kite. It turned like a North 12.0M. I
                                        Message 19 of 28 , Mar 10 1:06 PM
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          G'day Nick

                                          The people riding in the puddle that day were all very experienced riders.
                                          The Aero 20M was the best turning kite. It turned like a North 12.0M. I have
                                          flown an Aero 16.0M on land, and I did not think the 20.0M was very
                                          different?
                                          Perhaps the kite you flew was set up poorly and was depowered? How long was
                                          the "stock" bar you used?

                                          Cya and
                                          Goodwinds
                                          Steve McCormack
                                          http://www.kitepower.com.au
                                          mailto:sydney@...
                                          126 Beach St, Coogee, NSW, Australia 2034
                                          Open 7 Days 9.30 - 5.30
                                          Also at 386 Latrobe Terrace Geelong Vic
                                          mailto:geelong@...

                                          * -----Original Message-----
                                          * From: kiteboardingjapan [mailto:nick@...]
                                          * Sent: Monday, 11 March 2002 3:35
                                          * To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                                          * Subject: [ksurf] Re: Aero 20M
                                          *
                                          *
                                          * --- In kitesurf@y..., "Kitepower" <kitepower@b...> wrote:
                                          * > He could not turn the ARX, the pool of water they were riding in
                                          * was no more
                                          * > than 50M wide, it had rocks and wire on each side.
                                          * > I also meant a 2001 16.4AB, I have not flown the latest model.
                                          * > If the kite could not turn very quickly you could not ride in this
                                          * tiny
                                          * > puddle of water, that's all I meant?
                                          * >
                                          * > Cya and
                                          * > Goodwinds
                                          * > Steve McCormack
                                          *
                                          * Steve, I think it was the level of the rider that enabled him to ride
                                          * in such a small space. I've used the Aero 16 with the stock bar, and
                                          * it turned like a boat! I don't think that the 20m would be any better.
                                          *
                                          * Nick
                                          *
                                          *
                                          * <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>
                                          *
                                          * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                          *
                                          *
                                        • kiteboardingjapan
                                          ... riders. ... 12.0M. I have ... long was ... Steve, I don t think that the Aero 20M can turn like a North 12m. I ve been using Norths (including the 12m) for
                                          Message 20 of 28 , Mar 11 8:23 AM
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            --- In kitesurf@y..., "Kitepower" <kitepower@b...> wrote:
                                            > G'day Nick
                                            >
                                            > The people riding in the puddle that day were all very experienced
                                            riders.
                                            > The Aero 20M was the best turning kite. It turned like a North
                                            12.0M. I have
                                            > flown an Aero 16.0M on land, and I did not think the 20.0M was very
                                            > different?
                                            > Perhaps the kite you flew was set up poorly and was depowered? How
                                            long was
                                            > the "stock" bar you used?

                                            Steve,
                                            I don't think that the Aero 20M can turn like a North 12m. I've been
                                            using Norths (including the 12m) for 3 months now, and I've riden
                                            with the Aero 16m a few times. The turn speed wasn't even close. The
                                            Aeros I flew were part of a Naish promotional event. They were set up
                                            by the Naish distributor and were used by the Naish pro rider here.
                                            Can't remember how long the stock bar was, but I'd guess at about
                                            55cm. I fly my Norths all on a 23" (58cm) Cabrinha bar. They could
                                            easily be flown on a shorter bar. Aeros do not turn faster than ARXs.

                                            Nick
                                          • Kitepower
                                            G day Nick I don t want to argue with you about this, this is the last comment I make about this kite. I have 4 Rhinos, that are my personal kites, so I know
                                            Message 21 of 28 , Mar 11 1:35 PM
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              G'day Nick

                                              I don't want to argue with you about this, this is the last comment I make
                                              about this kite. I have 4 Rhinos, that are my personal kites, so I know them
                                              well. I also have 3 F-Ones, which are awesome and being overlooked by many
                                              people wanting huge range in a kite.
                                              I sponsor a rider who uses Aeros exclusively, I also sponsor JB (rider on
                                              the 20M in the puddle). Part of my job is to fly kites, virtually every day!
                                              I don't know why you keep defending ARX kites and wanting to diss Aero
                                              kites?
                                              I have actually flown all the kites we are talking about, so it is not a
                                              matter of "thinking" the Aero will not turn as well as an ARX. Even the
                                              smaller ARX's need a lot of effort to steer, which some people like, I
                                              don't.
                                              Have you flown a monster ARX? I'm talking the 19.5, 21.5 or 23.5? Ever
                                              wondered why not many have been sold?
                                              The other kite in the lagoon was a 21.5 Naish ARX, it turned like shit
                                              compared to the Aero 20.0M!
                                              Naish Aero's are not slow turning kites, not even the 16.0M, they are one of
                                              the best kites for 2002, and I think they are the best Naish kites I have
                                              flown.

                                              Cya and
                                              Goodwinds
                                              Steve McCormack
                                              http://www.kitepower.com.au
                                              mailto:sydney@...
                                              126 Beach St, Coogee, NSW, Australia 2034
                                              Open 7 Days 9.30 - 5.30
                                              Also at 386 Latrobe Terrace Geelong Vic
                                              mailto:geelong@...

                                              * -----Original Message-----
                                              * From: kiteboardingjapan [mailto:nick@...]
                                              * Sent: Tuesday, 12 March 2002 3:24
                                              * To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                                              * Subject: [ksurf] Re: Aero 20M
                                              *
                                              *
                                              * --- In kitesurf@y..., "Kitepower" <kitepower@b...> wrote:
                                              * > G'day Nick
                                              * >
                                              * > The people riding in the puddle that day were all very experienced
                                              * riders.
                                              * > The Aero 20M was the best turning kite. It turned like a North
                                              * 12.0M. I have
                                              * > flown an Aero 16.0M on land, and I did not think the 20.0M was very
                                              * > different?
                                              * > Perhaps the kite you flew was set up poorly and was depowered? How
                                              * long was
                                              * > the "stock" bar you used?
                                              *
                                              * Steve,
                                              * I don't think that the Aero 20M can turn like a North 12m. I've been
                                              * using Norths (including the 12m) for 3 months now, and I've riden
                                              * with the Aero 16m a few times. The turn speed wasn't even close. The
                                              * Aeros I flew were part of a Naish promotional event. They were set up
                                              * by the Naish distributor and were used by the Naish pro rider here.
                                              * Can't remember how long the stock bar was, but I'd guess at about
                                              * 55cm. I fly my Norths all on a 23" (58cm) Cabrinha bar. They could
                                              * easily be flown on a shorter bar. Aeros do not turn faster than ARXs.
                                              *
                                              * Nick
                                              *
                                              *
                                              *
                                              * <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>
                                              *
                                              * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                              *
                                              *
                                            • wipika_ab
                                              Hi Steve About the ARXs... You are totally RIGHT!!! I never used or even saw a Aero 20M, but I can say that the ARX 19.5 (I ve one) turns like a BOAT!!! And it
                                              Message 22 of 28 , Mar 11 1:55 PM
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                Hi Steve

                                                About the ARXs... You are totally RIGHT!!! I never used or even saw a
                                                Aero 20M, but I can say that the ARX 19.5 (I've one) turns like a
                                                BOAT!!! And it needs A LOT of bar pressure, even with the power
                                                booster bridle (that I think even makes it slower, but takes a lot of
                                                bar pressure).

                                                Good winds
                                                Carlos



                                                --- In kitesurf@y..., "Kitepower" <kitepower@b...> wrote:
                                                > G'day Nick
                                                >
                                                > I don't want to argue with you about this, this is the last comment
                                                I make
                                                > about this kite. I have 4 Rhinos, that are my personal kites, so I
                                                know them
                                                > well. I also have 3 F-Ones, which are awesome and being overlooked
                                                by many
                                                > people wanting huge range in a kite.
                                                > I sponsor a rider who uses Aeros exclusively, I also sponsor JB
                                                (rider on
                                                > the 20M in the puddle). Part of my job is to fly kites, virtually
                                                every day!
                                                > I don't know why you keep defending ARX kites and wanting to diss
                                                Aero
                                                > kites?
                                                > I have actually flown all the kites we are talking about, so it is
                                                not a
                                                > matter of "thinking" the Aero will not turn as well as an ARX. Even
                                                the
                                                > smaller ARX's need a lot of effort to steer, which some people
                                                like, I
                                                > don't.
                                                > Have you flown a monster ARX? I'm talking the 19.5, 21.5 or 23.5?
                                                Ever
                                                > wondered why not many have been sold?
                                                > The other kite in the lagoon was a 21.5 Naish ARX, it turned like
                                                shit
                                                > compared to the Aero 20.0M!
                                                > Naish Aero's are not slow turning kites, not even the 16.0M, they
                                                are one of
                                                > the best kites for 2002, and I think they are the best Naish kites
                                                I have
                                                > flown.
                                                >
                                                > Cya and
                                                > Goodwinds
                                                > Steve McCormack
                                                > http://www.kitepower.com.au
                                                > mailto:sydney@k...
                                                > 126 Beach St, Coogee, NSW, Australia 2034
                                                > Open 7 Days 9.30 - 5.30
                                                > Also at 386 Latrobe Terrace Geelong Vic
                                                > mailto:geelong@k...
                                                >
                                                > * -----Original Message-----
                                                > * From: kiteboardingjapan [mailto:nick@h...]
                                                > * Sent: Tuesday, 12 March 2002 3:24
                                                > * To: kitesurf@y...
                                                > * Subject: [ksurf] Re: Aero 20M
                                                > *
                                                > *
                                                > * --- In kitesurf@y..., "Kitepower" <kitepower@b...> wrote:
                                                > * > G'day Nick
                                                > * >
                                                > * > The people riding in the puddle that day were all very
                                                experienced
                                                > * riders.
                                                > * > The Aero 20M was the best turning kite. It turned like a North
                                                > * 12.0M. I have
                                                > * > flown an Aero 16.0M on land, and I did not think the 20.0M was
                                                very
                                                > * > different?
                                                > * > Perhaps the kite you flew was set up poorly and was depowered?
                                                How
                                                > * long was
                                                > * > the "stock" bar you used?
                                                > *
                                                > * Steve,
                                                > * I don't think that the Aero 20M can turn like a North 12m. I've
                                                been
                                                > * using Norths (including the 12m) for 3 months now, and I've riden
                                                > * with the Aero 16m a few times. The turn speed wasn't even close.
                                                The
                                                > * Aeros I flew were part of a Naish promotional event. They were
                                                set up
                                                > * by the Naish distributor and were used by the Naish pro rider
                                                here.
                                                > * Can't remember how long the stock bar was, but I'd guess at about
                                                > * 55cm. I fly my Norths all on a 23" (58cm) Cabrinha bar. They could
                                                > * easily be flown on a shorter bar. Aeros do not turn faster than
                                                ARXs.
                                                > *
                                                > * Nick
                                                > *
                                                > *
                                                > *
                                                > * <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@e...>>>
                                                > *
                                                > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                                http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                                > *
                                                > *
                                              • kiteboardingjapan
                                                ... I make ... Fair enough, my last comment too... ... ditto. ... ditto. ... I m certainly not defending ARX kites. Not dissing the Aero, just stating what I
                                                Message 23 of 28 , Mar 11 10:24 PM
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  --- In kitesurf@y..., "Kitepower" <kitepower@b...> wrote:
                                                  > G'day Nick
                                                  >
                                                  > I don't want to argue with you about this, this is the last comment
                                                  I make
                                                  > about this kite.

                                                  Fair enough, my last comment too...

                                                  >I have 4 Rhinos, that are my personal kites, so I know them
                                                  > well.

                                                  ditto.

                                                  >Part of my job is to fly kites, virtually every day!

                                                  ditto.

                                                  > I don't know why you keep defending ARX kites and wanting to diss
                                                  > Aero kites?

                                                  I'm certainly not defending ARX kites. Not dissing the Aero, just
                                                  stating what I experienced on the water with the kite. The Aero 16m
                                                  does not turn as fast as a North 12m. I have even used both these
                                                  kites on the same day.

                                                  > I have actually flown all the kites we are talking about, so it is
                                                  > not a matter of "thinking" the Aero will not turn as well as an
                                                  > ARX. Even the smaller ARX's need a lot of effort to steer, which
                                                  > some people like, I don't.

                                                  I was posting about the turn speed of the North 12m Vs Aero 16m. They
                                                  are not the same. I have flown these kites on the water. I also
                                                  experienced that the Naish ARX 15.5 turns faster and can be used in
                                                  lower winds than the Naish 16m.

                                                  > Have you flown a monster ARX? I'm talking the 19.5, 21.5 or 23.5?
                                                  > Ever wondered why not many have been sold?

                                                  Yes, and they turn like boats. I'd never buy one.

                                                  > The other kite in the lagoon was a 21.5 Naish ARX, it turned like
                                                  >shit compared to the Aero 20.0M! Naish Aero's are not slow turning
                                                  >kites, not even the 16.0M, they are one of the best kites for 2002,
                                                  >and I think they are the best Naish kites I have
                                                  > flown.

                                                  I've flown many of the 2002 kites and think they all fly really well.
                                                  I personally didn't like the Aeros. I've used the 8, 10, 12 & 16 over
                                                  a 2 week period. They are probably the worst gust handling kites I've
                                                  ever flown. If you have steady winds, they'd fly great.

                                                  Nick
                                                • Kitepower
                                                  We had a film shoot to do the other day, Murphys law of kiteboarding meant the wind was hovering around 5 knots all day!! JB was able to get going and even do
                                                  Message 24 of 28 , Mar 14 6:23 PM
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    We had a film shoot to do the other day, Murphys law of kiteboarding meant
                                                    the wind was hovering around 5 knots all day!!
                                                    JB was able to get going and even do some small transition moves with his
                                                    Aero 20M, he has a really interesting technique for getting more speed in
                                                    these low wind conditions from his board, as he says this is what is
                                                    stopping him. So he pumps the board, with his legs as he sheets the kite out
                                                    a bit and keeps it flying, parked at approx 10.30
                                                    It has a porpoising look to it and definitely speeds the board up to the
                                                    point where he can swing the kite back, get a bit of air and do a backroll
                                                    or something.
                                                    I could not get as much power as he had from my Warrior 12.5, but I did
                                                    manage a few decent runs.
                                                    Other kites on the water were a sweet looking red and white Arc (g'day
                                                    again, Rod from Japan!) 16.4, 2001 AB with no bridles, and an 8.5 C-Quad!!
                                                    The 15.1 F-One was able to fly easily on the beach but was not enough to get
                                                    on the water with.

                                                    Cya and
                                                    Goodwinds
                                                    Steve McCormack
                                                    http://www.kitepower.com.au
                                                    mailto:sydney@...
                                                    Open 7 days
                                                    126 Beach St, Coogee, Sydney, Australia 2034
                                                    Phone +61293157894

                                                    -----Original Message-----
                                                    From: wipika_ab [mailto:c_batalha@...]
                                                    Sent: 12 March, 2002 8:56 AM
                                                    To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Subject: [ksurf] Re: Aero 20M


                                                    Hi Steve

                                                    About the ARXs... You are totally RIGHT!!! I never used or even saw a
                                                    Aero 20M, but I can say that the ARX 19.5 (I've one) turns like a
                                                    BOAT!!! And it needs A LOT of bar pressure, even with the power
                                                    booster bridle (that I think even makes it slower, but takes a lot of
                                                    bar pressure).

                                                    Good winds
                                                    Carlos



                                                    --- In kitesurf@y..., "Kitepower" <kitepower@b...> wrote:
                                                    > G'day Nick
                                                    >
                                                    > I don't want to argue with you about this, this is the last comment
                                                    I make
                                                    > about this kite. I have 4 Rhinos, that are my personal kites, so I
                                                    know them
                                                    > well. I also have 3 F-Ones, which are awesome and being overlooked
                                                    by many
                                                    > people wanting huge range in a kite.
                                                    > I sponsor a rider who uses Aeros exclusively, I also sponsor JB
                                                    (rider on
                                                    > the 20M in the puddle). Part of my job is to fly kites, virtually
                                                    every day!
                                                    > I don't know why you keep defending ARX kites and wanting to diss
                                                    Aero
                                                    > kites?
                                                    > I have actually flown all the kites we are talking about, so it is
                                                    not a
                                                    > matter of "thinking" the Aero will not turn as well as an ARX. Even
                                                    the
                                                    > smaller ARX's need a lot of effort to steer, which some people
                                                    like, I
                                                    > don't.
                                                    > Have you flown a monster ARX? I'm talking the 19.5, 21.5 or 23.5?
                                                    Ever
                                                    > wondered why not many have been sold?
                                                    > The other kite in the lagoon was a 21.5 Naish ARX, it turned like
                                                    shit
                                                    > compared to the Aero 20.0M!
                                                    > Naish Aero's are not slow turning kites, not even the 16.0M, they
                                                    are one of
                                                    > the best kites for 2002, and I think they are the best Naish kites
                                                    I have
                                                    > flown.
                                                    >
                                                    > Cya and
                                                    > Goodwinds
                                                    > Steve McCormack
                                                    > http://www.kitepower.com.au
                                                    > mailto:sydney@k...
                                                    > 126 Beach St, Coogee, NSW, Australia 2034
                                                    > Open 7 Days 9.30 - 5.30
                                                    > Also at 386 Latrobe Terrace Geelong Vic
                                                    > mailto:geelong@k...
                                                    >
                                                    > * -----Original Message-----
                                                    > * From: kiteboardingjapan [mailto:nick@h...]
                                                    > * Sent: Tuesday, 12 March 2002 3:24
                                                    > * To: kitesurf@y...
                                                    > * Subject: [ksurf] Re: Aero 20M
                                                    > *
                                                    > *
                                                    > * --- In kitesurf@y..., "Kitepower" <kitepower@b...> wrote:
                                                    > * > G'day Nick
                                                    > * >
                                                    > * > The people riding in the puddle that day were all very
                                                    experienced
                                                    > * riders.
                                                    > * > The Aero 20M was the best turning kite. It turned like a North
                                                    > * 12.0M. I have
                                                    > * > flown an Aero 16.0M on land, and I did not think the 20.0M was
                                                    very
                                                    > * > different?
                                                    > * > Perhaps the kite you flew was set up poorly and was depowered?
                                                    How
                                                    > * long was
                                                    > * > the "stock" bar you used?
                                                    > *
                                                    > * Steve,
                                                    > * I don't think that the Aero 20M can turn like a North 12m. I've
                                                    been
                                                    > * using Norths (including the 12m) for 3 months now, and I've riden
                                                    > * with the Aero 16m a few times. The turn speed wasn't even close.
                                                    The
                                                    > * Aeros I flew were part of a Naish promotional event. They were
                                                    set up
                                                    > * by the Naish distributor and were used by the Naish pro rider
                                                    here.
                                                    > * Can't remember how long the stock bar was, but I'd guess at about
                                                    > * 55cm. I fly my Norths all on a 23" (58cm) Cabrinha bar. They could
                                                    > * easily be flown on a shorter bar. Aeros do not turn faster than
                                                    ARXs.
                                                    > *
                                                    > * Nick
                                                    > *
                                                    > *
                                                    > *
                                                    > * <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@e...>>>
                                                    > *
                                                    > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                                    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                                    > *
                                                    > *


                                                    <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>

                                                    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                                  • callum_downie
                                                    Hey steve, I ve heard the 18.1 fone is generally better than the 20 aero, i.e can get going earlier due to it s sinus ability in light winds, jumps better
                                                    Message 25 of 28 , Mar 14 6:30 PM
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      Hey steve,
                                                      I've heard the 18.1 fone is generally better than the 20 aero, i.e
                                                      can get going earlier due to it's sinus ability in light winds, jumps
                                                      better because it is faster..
                                                      Have you flown it to get an opinion?
                                                      I saw one flying, it turns so fast, can't believe how wide the tips
                                                      on it are.

                                                      Cheers
                                                      Callum

                                                      --- In kitesurf@y..., "Kitepower" <kitepower@b...> wrote:
                                                      > We had a film shoot to do the other day, Murphys law of
                                                      kiteboarding meant
                                                      > the wind was hovering around 5 knots all day!!
                                                      > JB was able to get going and even do some small transition moves
                                                      with his
                                                      > Aero 20M, he has a really interesting technique for getting more
                                                      speed in
                                                      > these low wind conditions from his board, as he says this is what is
                                                      > stopping him. So he pumps the board, with his legs as he sheets the
                                                      kite out
                                                      > a bit and keeps it flying, parked at approx 10.30
                                                      > It has a porpoising look to it and definitely speeds the board up
                                                      to the
                                                      > point where he can swing the kite back, get a bit of air and do a
                                                      backroll
                                                      > or something.
                                                      > I could not get as much power as he had from my Warrior 12.5, but I
                                                      did
                                                      > manage a few decent runs.
                                                      > Other kites on the water were a sweet looking red and white Arc
                                                      (g'day
                                                      > again, Rod from Japan!) 16.4, 2001 AB with no bridles, and an 8.5 C-
                                                      Quad!!
                                                      > The 15.1 F-One was able to fly easily on the beach but was not
                                                      enough to get
                                                      > on the water with.
                                                      >
                                                      > Cya and
                                                      > Goodwinds
                                                      > Steve McCormack
                                                      > http://www.kitepower.com.au
                                                      > mailto:sydney@k...
                                                      > Open 7 days
                                                      > 126 Beach St, Coogee, Sydney, Australia 2034
                                                      > Phone +61293157894
                                                      >
                                                      > -----Original Message-----
                                                      > From: wipika_ab [mailto:c_batalha@c...]
                                                      > Sent: 12 March, 2002 8:56 AM
                                                      > To: kitesurf@y...
                                                      > Subject: [ksurf] Re: Aero 20M
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > Hi Steve
                                                      >
                                                      > About the ARXs... You are totally RIGHT!!! I never used or even saw
                                                      a
                                                      > Aero 20M, but I can say that the ARX 19.5 (I've one) turns like a
                                                      > BOAT!!! And it needs A LOT of bar pressure, even with the power
                                                      > booster bridle (that I think even makes it slower, but takes a lot
                                                      of
                                                      > bar pressure).
                                                      >
                                                      > Good winds
                                                      > Carlos
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > --- In kitesurf@y..., "Kitepower" <kitepower@b...> wrote:
                                                      > > G'day Nick
                                                      > >
                                                      > > I don't want to argue with you about this, this is the last
                                                      comment
                                                      > I make
                                                      > > about this kite. I have 4 Rhinos, that are my personal kites, so I
                                                      > know them
                                                      > > well. I also have 3 F-Ones, which are awesome and being overlooked
                                                      > by many
                                                      > > people wanting huge range in a kite.
                                                      > > I sponsor a rider who uses Aeros exclusively, I also sponsor JB
                                                      > (rider on
                                                      > > the 20M in the puddle). Part of my job is to fly kites, virtually
                                                      > every day!
                                                      > > I don't know why you keep defending ARX kites and wanting to diss
                                                      > Aero
                                                      > > kites?
                                                      > > I have actually flown all the kites we are talking about, so it is
                                                      > not a
                                                      > > matter of "thinking" the Aero will not turn as well as an ARX.
                                                      Even
                                                      > the
                                                      > > smaller ARX's need a lot of effort to steer, which some people
                                                      > like, I
                                                      > > don't.
                                                      > > Have you flown a monster ARX? I'm talking the 19.5, 21.5 or 23.5?
                                                      > Ever
                                                      > > wondered why not many have been sold?
                                                      > > The other kite in the lagoon was a 21.5 Naish ARX, it turned like
                                                      > shit
                                                      > > compared to the Aero 20.0M!
                                                      > > Naish Aero's are not slow turning kites, not even the 16.0M, they
                                                      > are one of
                                                      > > the best kites for 2002, and I think they are the best Naish kites
                                                      > I have
                                                      > > flown.
                                                      > >
                                                      > > Cya and
                                                      > > Goodwinds
                                                      > > Steve McCormack
                                                      > > http://www.kitepower.com.au
                                                      > > mailto:sydney@k...
                                                      > > 126 Beach St, Coogee, NSW, Australia 2034
                                                      > > Open 7 Days 9.30 - 5.30
                                                      > > Also at 386 Latrobe Terrace Geelong Vic
                                                      > > mailto:geelong@k...
                                                      > >
                                                      > > * -----Original Message-----
                                                      > > * From: kiteboardingjapan [mailto:nick@h...]
                                                      > > * Sent: Tuesday, 12 March 2002 3:24
                                                      > > * To: kitesurf@y...
                                                      > > * Subject: [ksurf] Re: Aero 20M
                                                      > > *
                                                      > > *
                                                      > > * --- In kitesurf@y..., "Kitepower" <kitepower@b...> wrote:
                                                      > > * > G'day Nick
                                                      > > * >
                                                      > > * > The people riding in the puddle that day were all very
                                                      > experienced
                                                      > > * riders.
                                                      > > * > The Aero 20M was the best turning kite. It turned like a North
                                                      > > * 12.0M. I have
                                                      > > * > flown an Aero 16.0M on land, and I did not think the 20.0M was
                                                      > very
                                                      > > * > different?
                                                      > > * > Perhaps the kite you flew was set up poorly and was depowered?
                                                      > How
                                                      > > * long was
                                                      > > * > the "stock" bar you used?
                                                      > > *
                                                      > > * Steve,
                                                      > > * I don't think that the Aero 20M can turn like a North 12m. I've
                                                      > been
                                                      > > * using Norths (including the 12m) for 3 months now, and I've
                                                      riden
                                                      > > * with the Aero 16m a few times. The turn speed wasn't even close.
                                                      > The
                                                      > > * Aeros I flew were part of a Naish promotional event. They were
                                                      > set up
                                                      > > * by the Naish distributor and were used by the Naish pro rider
                                                      > here.
                                                      > > * Can't remember how long the stock bar was, but I'd guess at
                                                      about
                                                      > > * 55cm. I fly my Norths all on a 23" (58cm) Cabrinha bar. They
                                                      could
                                                      > > * easily be flown on a shorter bar. Aeros do not turn faster than
                                                      > ARXs.
                                                      > > *
                                                      > > * Nick
                                                      > > *
                                                      > > *
                                                      > > *
                                                      > > * <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@e...>>>
                                                      > > *
                                                      > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                                      > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                                      > > *
                                                      > > *
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@e...>>>
                                                      >
                                                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                                      http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                                    • igsmith
                                                      Any thoughts on the 16 airush lift? I have one, but haven t had the conditions to use it yet. ... jumps ... is ... the ... I ... C- ... saw ... lot ... so I
                                                      Message 26 of 28 , Mar 14 6:48 PM
                                                      • 0 Attachment
                                                        Any thoughts on the 16 airush lift? I have one, but haven't had the
                                                        conditions to use it yet.

                                                        --- In kitesurf@y..., "callum_downie" <callum_downie@h...> wrote:
                                                        > Hey steve,
                                                        > I've heard the 18.1 fone is generally better than the 20 aero, i.e
                                                        > can get going earlier due to it's sinus ability in light winds,
                                                        jumps
                                                        > better because it is faster..
                                                        > Have you flown it to get an opinion?
                                                        > I saw one flying, it turns so fast, can't believe how wide the tips
                                                        > on it are.
                                                        >
                                                        > Cheers
                                                        > Callum
                                                        >
                                                        > --- In kitesurf@y..., "Kitepower" <kitepower@b...> wrote:
                                                        > > We had a film shoot to do the other day, Murphys law of
                                                        > kiteboarding meant
                                                        > > the wind was hovering around 5 knots all day!!
                                                        > > JB was able to get going and even do some small transition moves
                                                        > with his
                                                        > > Aero 20M, he has a really interesting technique for getting more
                                                        > speed in
                                                        > > these low wind conditions from his board, as he says this is what
                                                        is
                                                        > > stopping him. So he pumps the board, with his legs as he sheets
                                                        the
                                                        > kite out
                                                        > > a bit and keeps it flying, parked at approx 10.30
                                                        > > It has a porpoising look to it and definitely speeds the board up
                                                        > to the
                                                        > > point where he can swing the kite back, get a bit of air and do a
                                                        > backroll
                                                        > > or something.
                                                        > > I could not get as much power as he had from my Warrior 12.5, but
                                                        I
                                                        > did
                                                        > > manage a few decent runs.
                                                        > > Other kites on the water were a sweet looking red and white Arc
                                                        > (g'day
                                                        > > again, Rod from Japan!) 16.4, 2001 AB with no bridles, and an 8.5
                                                        C-
                                                        > Quad!!
                                                        > > The 15.1 F-One was able to fly easily on the beach but was not
                                                        > enough to get
                                                        > > on the water with.
                                                        > >
                                                        > > Cya and
                                                        > > Goodwinds
                                                        > > Steve McCormack
                                                        > > http://www.kitepower.com.au
                                                        > > mailto:sydney@k...
                                                        > > Open 7 days
                                                        > > 126 Beach St, Coogee, Sydney, Australia 2034
                                                        > > Phone +61293157894
                                                        > >
                                                        > > -----Original Message-----
                                                        > > From: wipika_ab [mailto:c_batalha@c...]
                                                        > > Sent: 12 March, 2002 8:56 AM
                                                        > > To: kitesurf@y...
                                                        > > Subject: [ksurf] Re: Aero 20M
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > > Hi Steve
                                                        > >
                                                        > > About the ARXs... You are totally RIGHT!!! I never used or even
                                                        saw
                                                        > a
                                                        > > Aero 20M, but I can say that the ARX 19.5 (I've one) turns like a
                                                        > > BOAT!!! And it needs A LOT of bar pressure, even with the power
                                                        > > booster bridle (that I think even makes it slower, but takes a
                                                        lot
                                                        > of
                                                        > > bar pressure).
                                                        > >
                                                        > > Good winds
                                                        > > Carlos
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > > --- In kitesurf@y..., "Kitepower" <kitepower@b...> wrote:
                                                        > > > G'day Nick
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > > I don't want to argue with you about this, this is the last
                                                        > comment
                                                        > > I make
                                                        > > > about this kite. I have 4 Rhinos, that are my personal kites,
                                                        so I
                                                        > > know them
                                                        > > > well. I also have 3 F-Ones, which are awesome and being
                                                        overlooked
                                                        > > by many
                                                        > > > people wanting huge range in a kite.
                                                        > > > I sponsor a rider who uses Aeros exclusively, I also sponsor JB
                                                        > > (rider on
                                                        > > > the 20M in the puddle). Part of my job is to fly kites,
                                                        virtually
                                                        > > every day!
                                                        > > > I don't know why you keep defending ARX kites and wanting to
                                                        diss
                                                        > > Aero
                                                        > > > kites?
                                                        > > > I have actually flown all the kites we are talking about, so it
                                                        is
                                                        > > not a
                                                        > > > matter of "thinking" the Aero will not turn as well as an ARX.
                                                        > Even
                                                        > > the
                                                        > > > smaller ARX's need a lot of effort to steer, which some people
                                                        > > like, I
                                                        > > > don't.
                                                        > > > Have you flown a monster ARX? I'm talking the 19.5, 21.5 or
                                                        23.5?
                                                        > > Ever
                                                        > > > wondered why not many have been sold?
                                                        > > > The other kite in the lagoon was a 21.5 Naish ARX, it turned
                                                        like
                                                        > > shit
                                                        > > > compared to the Aero 20.0M!
                                                        > > > Naish Aero's are not slow turning kites, not even the 16.0M,
                                                        they
                                                        > > are one of
                                                        > > > the best kites for 2002, and I think they are the best Naish
                                                        kites
                                                        > > I have
                                                        > > > flown.
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > > Cya and
                                                        > > > Goodwinds
                                                        > > > Steve McCormack
                                                        > > > http://www.kitepower.com.au
                                                        > > > mailto:sydney@k...
                                                        > > > 126 Beach St, Coogee, NSW, Australia 2034
                                                        > > > Open 7 Days 9.30 - 5.30
                                                        > > > Also at 386 Latrobe Terrace Geelong Vic
                                                        > > > mailto:geelong@k...
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > > * -----Original Message-----
                                                        > > > * From: kiteboardingjapan [mailto:nick@h...]
                                                        > > > * Sent: Tuesday, 12 March 2002 3:24
                                                        > > > * To: kitesurf@y...
                                                        > > > * Subject: [ksurf] Re: Aero 20M
                                                        > > > *
                                                        > > > *
                                                        > > > * --- In kitesurf@y..., "Kitepower" <kitepower@b...> wrote:
                                                        > > > * > G'day Nick
                                                        > > > * >
                                                        > > > * > The people riding in the puddle that day were all very
                                                        > > experienced
                                                        > > > * riders.
                                                        > > > * > The Aero 20M was the best turning kite. It turned like a
                                                        North
                                                        > > > * 12.0M. I have
                                                        > > > * > flown an Aero 16.0M on land, and I did not think the 20.0M
                                                        was
                                                        > > very
                                                        > > > * > different?
                                                        > > > * > Perhaps the kite you flew was set up poorly and was
                                                        depowered?
                                                        > > How
                                                        > > > * long was
                                                        > > > * > the "stock" bar you used?
                                                        > > > *
                                                        > > > * Steve,
                                                        > > > * I don't think that the Aero 20M can turn like a North 12m.
                                                        I've
                                                        > > been
                                                        > > > * using Norths (including the 12m) for 3 months now, and I've
                                                        > riden
                                                        > > > * with the Aero 16m a few times. The turn speed wasn't even
                                                        close.
                                                        > > The
                                                        > > > * Aeros I flew were part of a Naish promotional event. They were
                                                        > > set up
                                                        > > > * by the Naish distributor and were used by the Naish pro rider
                                                        > > here.
                                                        > > > * Can't remember how long the stock bar was, but I'd guess at
                                                        > about
                                                        > > > * 55cm. I fly my Norths all on a 23" (58cm) Cabrinha bar. They
                                                        > could
                                                        > > > * easily be flown on a shorter bar. Aeros do not turn faster
                                                        than
                                                        > > ARXs.
                                                        > > > *
                                                        > > > * Nick
                                                        > > > *
                                                        > > > *
                                                        > > > *
                                                        > > > * <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-
                                                        unsubscribe@e...>>>
                                                        > > > *
                                                        > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                                        > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                                        > > > *
                                                        > > > *
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > > <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@e...>>>
                                                        > >
                                                        > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                                        > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                                      • Dwight & Jacky
                                                        ... I ve flown side by side with one while I was on my 22.5 Rhino. It s a smaller looking kite and definitely has less power. It s high aspect and the guys
                                                        Message 27 of 28 , Mar 14 7:14 PM
                                                        • 0 Attachment
                                                          > Any thoughts on the 16 airush lift? I have one, but haven't had the
                                                          > conditions to use it yet.

                                                          I've flown side by side with one while I was on my 22.5 Rhino. It's a smaller looking kite and
                                                          definitely has less power. It's high aspect and the guys using it noticed it was pitch sensitive in
                                                          light winds. Go easy on the chicken loop stroke. Maybe use the strap in small adjustments when the
                                                          wind is light. You can make the kite fall if you're not careful. You should enjoy the kite. My
                                                          friends liked it.

                                                          Dwight
                                                        • Kitepower
                                                          No I haven t had a chance to fly an 18.1 F-One yet. You would have seen Leon Clemones on his, Leon and JB are great mates and generally fly together. JB says
                                                          Message 28 of 28 , Mar 15 4:06 PM
                                                          • 0 Attachment
                                                            No I haven't had a chance to fly an 18.1 F-One yet. You would have seen Leon
                                                            Clemones on his, Leon and JB are great mates and generally fly together.
                                                            JB says he has to put the aero 20M away at around 12-13 knots, but on the
                                                            same day Leon will still be out on the 18.1 without any trim strap pulled
                                                            in!! JB reckons a solid 15 knots is all Leon could comfortably handle, but
                                                            Leon has been witnessed riding his 15.1 in solid 25 knots too!
                                                            I have recently bought a couple of large foils thinking they would perform
                                                            better than inflatos or Arcs and have found no real advantage over the
                                                            latest inflatos, especially the F-One's.
                                                            I am seriously considering getting an 18.1 F-One for my super light wind
                                                            kite, before this kite came along I was never impressed with any of the
                                                            monster kites over 16.0M flat.
                                                            Looking good for some Nor'easters today and the next couple of days.

                                                            Cya and
                                                            Goodwinds
                                                            Steve McCormack
                                                            http://www.kitepower.com.au
                                                            mailto:sydney@...
                                                            Open 7 days
                                                            126 Beach St, Coogee, Sydney, Australia 2034
                                                            Phone +61293157894

                                                            -----Original Message-----
                                                            From: callum_downie [mailto:callum_downie@...]
                                                            Sent: 15 March, 2002 1:30 PM
                                                            To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                                                            Subject: [ksurf] Re: Aero 20M


                                                            Hey steve,
                                                            I've heard the 18.1 fone is generally better than the 20 aero, i.e
                                                            can get going earlier due to it's sinus ability in light winds, jumps
                                                            better because it is faster..
                                                            Have you flown it to get an opinion?
                                                            I saw one flying, it turns so fast, can't believe how wide the tips
                                                            on it are.

                                                            Cheers
                                                            Callum

                                                            --- In kitesurf@y..., "Kitepower" <kitepower@b...> wrote:
                                                            > We had a film shoot to do the other day, Murphys law of
                                                            kiteboarding meant
                                                            > the wind was hovering around 5 knots all day!!
                                                            > JB was able to get going and even do some small transition moves
                                                            with his
                                                            > Aero 20M, he has a really interesting technique for getting more
                                                            speed in
                                                            > these low wind conditions from his board, as he says this is what is
                                                            > stopping him. So he pumps the board, with his legs as he sheets the
                                                            kite out
                                                            > a bit and keeps it flying, parked at approx 10.30
                                                            > It has a porpoising look to it and definitely speeds the board up
                                                            to the
                                                            > point where he can swing the kite back, get a bit of air and do a
                                                            backroll
                                                            > or something.
                                                            > I could not get as much power as he had from my Warrior 12.5, but I
                                                            did
                                                            > manage a few decent runs.
                                                            > Other kites on the water were a sweet looking red and white Arc
                                                            (g'day
                                                            > again, Rod from Japan!) 16.4, 2001 AB with no bridles, and an 8.5 C-
                                                            Quad!!
                                                            > The 15.1 F-One was able to fly easily on the beach but was not
                                                            enough to get
                                                            > on the water with.
                                                            >
                                                            > Cya and
                                                            > Goodwinds
                                                            > Steve McCormack
                                                            > http://www.kitepower.com.au
                                                            > mailto:sydney@k...
                                                            > Open 7 days
                                                            > 126 Beach St, Coogee, Sydney, Australia 2034
                                                            > Phone +61293157894
                                                            >
                                                            > -----Original Message-----
                                                            > From: wipika_ab [mailto:c_batalha@c...]
                                                            > Sent: 12 March, 2002 8:56 AM
                                                            > To: kitesurf@y...
                                                            > Subject: [ksurf] Re: Aero 20M
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            > Hi Steve
                                                            >
                                                            > About the ARXs... You are totally RIGHT!!! I never used or even saw
                                                            a
                                                            > Aero 20M, but I can say that the ARX 19.5 (I've one) turns like a
                                                            > BOAT!!! And it needs A LOT of bar pressure, even with the power
                                                            > booster bridle (that I think even makes it slower, but takes a lot
                                                            of
                                                            > bar pressure).
                                                            >
                                                            > Good winds
                                                            > Carlos
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            > --- In kitesurf@y..., "Kitepower" <kitepower@b...> wrote:
                                                            > > G'day Nick
                                                            > >
                                                            > > I don't want to argue with you about this, this is the last
                                                            comment
                                                            > I make
                                                            > > about this kite. I have 4 Rhinos, that are my personal kites, so I
                                                            > know them
                                                            > > well. I also have 3 F-Ones, which are awesome and being overlooked
                                                            > by many
                                                            > > people wanting huge range in a kite.
                                                            > > I sponsor a rider who uses Aeros exclusively, I also sponsor JB
                                                            > (rider on
                                                            > > the 20M in the puddle). Part of my job is to fly kites, virtually
                                                            > every day!
                                                            > > I don't know why you keep defending ARX kites and wanting to diss
                                                            > Aero
                                                            > > kites?
                                                            > > I have actually flown all the kites we are talking about, so it is
                                                            > not a
                                                            > > matter of "thinking" the Aero will not turn as well as an ARX.
                                                            Even
                                                            > the
                                                            > > smaller ARX's need a lot of effort to steer, which some people
                                                            > like, I
                                                            > > don't.
                                                            > > Have you flown a monster ARX? I'm talking the 19.5, 21.5 or 23.5?
                                                            > Ever
                                                            > > wondered why not many have been sold?
                                                            > > The other kite in the lagoon was a 21.5 Naish ARX, it turned like
                                                            > shit
                                                            > > compared to the Aero 20.0M!
                                                            > > Naish Aero's are not slow turning kites, not even the 16.0M, they
                                                            > are one of
                                                            > > the best kites for 2002, and I think they are the best Naish kites
                                                            > I have
                                                            > > flown.
                                                            > >
                                                            > > Cya and
                                                            > > Goodwinds
                                                            > > Steve McCormack
                                                            > > http://www.kitepower.com.au
                                                            > > mailto:sydney@k...
                                                            > > 126 Beach St, Coogee, NSW, Australia 2034
                                                            > > Open 7 Days 9.30 - 5.30
                                                            > > Also at 386 Latrobe Terrace Geelong Vic
                                                            > > mailto:geelong@k...
                                                            > >
                                                            > > * -----Original Message-----
                                                            > > * From: kiteboardingjapan [mailto:nick@h...]
                                                            > > * Sent: Tuesday, 12 March 2002 3:24
                                                            > > * To: kitesurf@y...
                                                            > > * Subject: [ksurf] Re: Aero 20M
                                                            > > *
                                                            > > *
                                                            > > * --- In kitesurf@y..., "Kitepower" <kitepower@b...> wrote:
                                                            > > * > G'day Nick
                                                            > > * >
                                                            > > * > The people riding in the puddle that day were all very
                                                            > experienced
                                                            > > * riders.
                                                            > > * > The Aero 20M was the best turning kite. It turned like a North
                                                            > > * 12.0M. I have
                                                            > > * > flown an Aero 16.0M on land, and I did not think the 20.0M was
                                                            > very
                                                            > > * > different?
                                                            > > * > Perhaps the kite you flew was set up poorly and was depowered?
                                                            > How
                                                            > > * long was
                                                            > > * > the "stock" bar you used?
                                                            > > *
                                                            > > * Steve,
                                                            > > * I don't think that the Aero 20M can turn like a North 12m. I've
                                                            > been
                                                            > > * using Norths (including the 12m) for 3 months now, and I've
                                                            riden
                                                            > > * with the Aero 16m a few times. The turn speed wasn't even close.
                                                            > The
                                                            > > * Aeros I flew were part of a Naish promotional event. They were
                                                            > set up
                                                            > > * by the Naish distributor and were used by the Naish pro rider
                                                            > here.
                                                            > > * Can't remember how long the stock bar was, but I'd guess at
                                                            about
                                                            > > * 55cm. I fly my Norths all on a 23" (58cm) Cabrinha bar. They
                                                            could
                                                            > > * easily be flown on a shorter bar. Aeros do not turn faster than
                                                            > ARXs.
                                                            > > *
                                                            > > * Nick
                                                            > > *
                                                            > > *
                                                            > > *
                                                            > > * <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@e...>>>
                                                            > > *
                                                            > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                                            > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                                            > > *
                                                            > > *
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            > <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@e...>>>
                                                            >
                                                            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                                            http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


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