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[ksurf] Re: 4 line handles vs 4 line bar

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  • Todd Snyder
    Hi David Wait until your a couple of miles out away from the beach and your handles pop off. Unless you have a reliable waterstating kite have a happy swim
    Message 1 of 20 , Sep 2, 1999
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      Hi David

      Wait until your a couple of miles out away from the beach and your handles pop
      off. Unless you have a reliable waterstating kite have a happy swim .......oh ya
      watch out for those guys in the gray suits too..... hahaha. I use a control bar
      and wear my harness hook down. I had it pop out one time cause, I hit some funky
      chop while steering and out it came and had to swim cause the damn quickrelease
      which disconnects one line completely. Got rid of that damn thing.

      David Raue wrote:

      > On a couple occassions it has popped out, but I've always had my hands on
      > the handles, so it hasn't gotten away from me. I guess I'd rather have the
      > kite pop off when it should be on than stay on when it should be off.
      > What's the worst that can happen if it pops off? You fall. It has never
      > been a problem buggying cause you're either hooked in under tension when
      > you're just running OR you're holding the handles while turning (which
      > creates less pull anyway). As a kitesurf newbie I'm not sure which is best,
      > but I'll err on the side of "easy release" until I get more experience.
      >
      > Dave
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: <jquick1@...>
      > To: <kitesurf@egroups.com>
      > Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 1999 12:58 PM
      > Subject: [ksurf] Re: 4 line handles vs 4 line bar
      >
      > > Ya, it is really tuff to unhook during an overpower in the water. I
      > > got dragged atleast 30 yards halfway submerged with an 8.5 C Quad when
      > > I wiped out. Its a good way to get in shape quickly, as you need
      > > gorilla strength to push against oncoming water.
      > >
      > > But with the hook roller turned up, it seems that the kite could get
      > > away with a quick pop...sounds even more dangerous to me! How do you
      > > avoid this?
      > >
      > > Jeff
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > jquick-@... wrote:
      > > original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/kitesurf/?start=4732
      > > > A comment on the reactor bar and handle loops: I've used a Reactor
      > > bar for
      > > > a long time buggying, but with the pulley "upside down" i.e.,
      > > pointing up.
      > > > That way if you get in trouble it isn't too hard to yank the loop up
      > > off the
      > > > pulley to get free. In early kitesurfing attempts I tried the bar
      > > the way
      > > > Windsurfers use it, namely pulley pointed down (with DeKine Thermoform
      > > > harness). Big mistake! I got overpowered a couple times in gusts
      > > and got
      > > > bodydragged half submerged. I was scared shitless for longer a few
      > > seconds.
      > > > If you're really overpowered the loop is far harder to get free than
      > > when
      > > > upside down. I turned the bar back the "wrong" way and haven't had
      > > problems
      > > > since.
      > > >
      > > > As for loop line length, the right length will depend a lot on how
      > > much
      > > > slack there is in the spreader bar. I try to get it as tight as I
      > > can and
      > > > use the biggest loop possible so there's more arm movement available
      > > > (especially key for very big kites).
      > > >
      > > > Dave
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > > From: <jquick1@...>
      > > > To: <kitesurf@egroups.com>
      > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 1999 1:05 PM
      > > > Subject: [ksurf] Re: 4 line handles vs 4 line bar
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > > Actually, I do have a Reactor Spreader Bar, and I do put one finger
      > > on
      > > > > top of the handles. This fatigue only happens when I dont harness
      > > in.
      > > > > When I do harness in I feel totally out of balance, but I guess I
      > > need
      > > > > to get used to it!
      > > > >
      > > > > Thanks for the tips,
      > > > > Jeff
      > > > >
      > > > > jquick-@... wrote:
      > > > > original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/kitesurf/?start=4710
      > > > > > speleopowe-@... wrote:
      > > > > > I kitesurf for hours on end with handles. It sounds like you
      > > need a
      > > > > > Reator style spreader bar on your harness for ease of control.
      > > You
      > > > > can
      > > > > > steer with one hand no problem. Handles seem to be a better
      > > choice
      > > > > > than a bar because they are thinner and the pull is more
      > > anatomically
      > > > > > correct. Do you hold your index finger above the top line? If
      > > you do
      > > > > > this the pull will be straight through your arm. You might also
      > > need
      > > > > a
      > > > > > shorter harness line. I use about a 18 inch line. If I use to
      > > long
      > > > > of
      > > > > > a harness line you may have trouble reaching other handle when
      > > you do
      > > > > a
      > > > > > full out turn. You can jump hooked in or not hooked in do the
      > > rail
      > > > > > grabs and loops and all that other stuff with handles.
      > > > > > It takes lots of practice but well worth it. Handles give much
      > > more
      > > > > > control than a bar on your C-Quad. I used to have 2 C-Quads
      > > myself.
      > > > > > good luck and keep practicing.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/kitesurf/?start=4701
      > > > > > > Has anyone had any problems holding onto 4 line handles while
      > > > > > > kitesurfing? After about 30 seconds (not harnessed in) my
      > > forearms
      > > > > > > begin to give out, which then leads to my grip giving out. I
      > > ended
      > > > > up
      > > > > > > dunking my C Quad as a result.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > I think a bar would have many advantages over handles. For
      > > one, you
      > > > > > > would be able to steer (harnessed in of course) with one arm, do
      > > > > rail
      > > > > > > grabs, and sometimes powerturns with no arms! Also, 360's would
      > > > > seem
      > > > > > a
      > > > > > > lot easier. I've tried 2 line kites with a control bar, and it
      > > just
      > > > > > > seems alot easier.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Thanks,
      > > > > > > Jeff
      > > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
      > > MyPoints-Free Rewards When You're Online.
      > > Start with up to 150 Points for joining!
      > > http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/805
      > >
      > > To unsubscribe, send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@...
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
      > MyPoints-Free Rewards When You're Online.
      > Start with up to 150 Points for joining!
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    • fritz@kepnet.com
      original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/kitesurf/?start=4746 ... hands on ... have the ... never ... when ... is best, ... experience. ... I disagree, I
      Message 2 of 20 , Sep 2, 1999
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        original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/kitesurf/?start=4746
        > On a couple occassions it has popped out, but I've always had my
        hands on
        > the handles, so it hasn't gotten away from me. I guess I'd rather
        have the
        > kite pop off when it should be on than stay on when it should be off.
        > What's the worst that can happen if it pops off? You fall. It has
        never
        > been a problem buggying cause you're either hooked in under tension
        when
        > you're just running OR you're holding the handles while turning (which
        > creates less pull anyway). As a kitesurf newbie I'm not sure which
        is best,
        > but I'll err on the side of "easy release" until I get more
        experience.
        >
        > Dave
        I disagree, I think it is much safer to have the roller turned down.
        Releasing the handles is dangerous and should be avoided. On the water
        an over powering kite does not present the same dangerous as it does on
        land. Being lifted and dropped on land is much worse than on water.

        Provided there is nothing too close down wind (you should always keep
        an open space downwind of you) I see no harm in torpedoing, being body
        dragged under water. You will stop when the kite crashes or be able to
        regain control when it gets to the edge of the wind window. If you
        release your handles they will fly down wind and create a much larger
        threat to bystanders than your uncontrolled body dragging does. I
        prefer to put the saftey of others ahead of myself. Released handles
        are a danger that must be avoided. Besides water is soft and you can
        hold your breath for a longer than you think. Being dragged under
        water can be a little scarey but the worst under water body drags I've
        had kitesurfing are no worse than getting worked by an overhead wave.

        Things are alot different on the water than they are on land. Besided
        being dangerous releasing your kite and handles on the water is also
        likely to be a big mess. From my experience (with PL quick release
        handles) a released kite usually travels a horizonatal distance 1-2
        times your line length before hitting the ground or water and it
        usually gets a little tangled. On land it is not much of a problem to
        walk or run after a released kite untangle it and relaunch. On the
        water first you will have to swim after your kite. If it is windy you
        may not be able to swim fast enough to catch your kite as it gets blown
        down wind on the water. When/if you get to your kite, even if it's
        water relaunchable there is a good chance you will not be able to
        untangle it.

        If you can't handle torpedoing through the water get a saftey release
        system that will depower or release your kite without sending your
        handles flying down wind. Releasing handles has the potential to cause
        serious injury to people down wind and should be avoided.

        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: <jquick1@...>
        > To: <kitesurf@egroups.com>
        > Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 1999 12:58 PM
        > Subject: [ksurf] Re: 4 line handles vs 4 line bar
        >
        >
        > > Ya, it is really tuff to unhook during an overpower in the water. I
        > > got dragged atleast 30 yards halfway submerged with an 8.5 C Quad
        when
        > > I wiped out. Its a good way to get in shape quickly, as you need
        > > gorilla strength to push against oncoming water.
        > >
        > > But with the hook roller turned up, it seems that the kite could get
        > > away with a quick pop...sounds even more dangerous to me! How do
        you
        > > avoid this?
        > >
        > > Jeff
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > jquick-@... wrote:
        > > original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/kitesurf/?start=4732
        > > > A comment on the reactor bar and handle loops: I've used a
        Reactor
        > > bar for
        > > > a long time buggying, but with the pulley "upside down" i.e.,
        > > pointing up.
        > > > That way if you get in trouble it isn't too hard to yank the loop
        up
        > > off the
        > > > pulley to get free. In early kitesurfing attempts I tried the bar
        > > the way
        > > > Windsurfers use it, namely pulley pointed down (with DeKine
        Thermoform
        > > > harness). Big mistake! I got overpowered a couple times in gusts
        > > and got
        > > > bodydragged half submerged. I was scared shitless for longer a
        few
        > > seconds.
        > > > If you're really overpowered the loop is far harder to get free
        than
        > > when
        > > > upside down. I turned the bar back the "wrong" way and haven't
        had
        > > problems
        > > > since.
        > > >
        > > > As for loop line length, the right length will depend a lot on how
        > > much
        > > > slack there is in the spreader bar. I try to get it as tight as I
        > > can and
        > > > use the biggest loop possible so there's more arm movement
        available
        > > > (especially key for very big kites).
        > > >
        > > > Dave
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > > From: <jquick1@...>
        > > > To: <kitesurf@egroups.com>
        > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 1999 1:05 PM
        > > > Subject: [ksurf] Re: 4 line handles vs 4 line bar
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > > Actually, I do have a Reactor Spreader Bar, and I do put one
        finger
        > > on
        > > > > top of the handles. This fatigue only happens when I dont
        harness
        > > in.
        > > > > When I do harness in I feel totally out of balance, but I guess
        I
        > > need
        > > > > to get used to it!
        > > > >
        > > > > Thanks for the tips,
        > > > > Jeff
        > > > >
        > > > > jquick-@... wrote:
        > > > > original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/kitesurf/?start=4
        710
        > > > > > speleopowe-@... wrote:
        > > > > > I kitesurf for hours on end with handles. It sounds like you
        > > need a
        > > > > > Reator style spreader bar on your harness for ease of control.
        > > You
        > > > > can
        > > > > > steer with one hand no problem. Handles seem to be a better
        > > choice
        > > > > > than a bar because they are thinner and the pull is more
        > > anatomically
        > > > > > correct. Do you hold your index finger above the top line?
        If
        > > you do
        > > > > > this the pull will be straight through your arm. You might
        also
        > > need
        > > > > a
        > > > > > shorter harness line. I use about a 18 inch line. If I use
        to
        > > long
        > > > > of
        > > > > > a harness line you may have trouble reaching other handle when
        > > you do
        > > > > a
        > > > > > full out turn. You can jump hooked in or not hooked in do the
        > > rail
        > > > > > grabs and loops and all that other stuff with handles.
        > > > > > It takes lots of practice but well worth it. Handles give
        much
        > > more
        > > > > > control than a bar on your C-Quad. I used to have 2 C-Quads
        > > myself.
        > > > > > good luck and keep practicing.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/kitesurf/?start
        =4701
        > > > > > > Has anyone had any problems holding onto 4 line handles
        while
        > > > > > > kitesurfing? After about 30 seconds (not harnessed in) my
        > > forearms
        > > > > > > begin to give out, which then leads to my grip giving out.
        I
        > > ended
        > > > > up
        > > > > > > dunking my C Quad as a result.
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > I think a bar would have many advantages over handles. For
        > > one, you
        > > > > > > would be able to steer (harnessed in of course) with one
        arm, do
        > > > > rail
        > > > > > > grabs, and sometimes powerturns with no arms! Also, 360's
        would
        > > > > seem
        > > > > > a
        > > > > > > lot easier. I've tried 2 line kites with a control bar,
        and it
        > > just
        > > > > > > seems alot easier.
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > Thanks,
        > > > > > > Jeff
        > > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > >
        > >
      • David Raue
        I look forward to the day I can think about being 2 miles offshore with a water relaunchable kite. Fact is, my kite bag is a serious collection of
        Message 3 of 20 , Sep 2, 1999
        • 0 Attachment
          I look forward to the day I can think about being 2 miles offshore with a
          water relaunchable kite. Fact is, my kite bag is a serious collection of
          non-relaunchable foils, and my abilities preclude getting that far out (for
          the time being). Doubtless the time will come for relaunchable kites, till
          then I'll keep the pulley where it is. Actually, the only times it has
          popped of is during the start, not underway.

          Dave
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Todd Snyder <boomjib@...>
          To: <kitesurf@egroups.com>
          Sent: Thursday, September 02, 1999 11:45 AM
          Subject: [ksurf] Re: 4 line handles vs 4 line bar


          > Hi David
          >
          > Wait until your a couple of miles out away from the beach and your handles
          pop
          > off. Unless you have a reliable waterstating kite have a happy swim
          .......oh ya
          > watch out for those guys in the gray suits too..... hahaha. I use a
          control bar
          > and wear my harness hook down. I had it pop out one time cause, I hit some
          funky
          > chop while steering and out it came and had to swim cause the damn
          quickrelease
          > which disconnects one line completely. Got rid of that damn thing.
          >
          > David Raue wrote:
          >
          > > On a couple occassions it has popped out, but I've always had my hands
          on
          > > the handles, so it hasn't gotten away from me. I guess I'd rather have
          the
          > > kite pop off when it should be on than stay on when it should be off.
          > > What's the worst that can happen if it pops off? You fall. It has
          never
          > > been a problem buggying cause you're either hooked in under tension when
          > > you're just running OR you're holding the handles while turning (which
          > > creates less pull anyway). As a kitesurf newbie I'm not sure which is
          best,
          > > but I'll err on the side of "easy release" until I get more experience.
          > >
          > > Dave
          > > ----- Original Message -----
          > > From: <jquick1@...>
          > > To: <kitesurf@egroups.com>
          > > Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 1999 12:58 PM
          > > Subject: [ksurf] Re: 4 line handles vs 4 line bar
          > >
          > > > Ya, it is really tuff to unhook during an overpower in the water. I
          > > > got dragged atleast 30 yards halfway submerged with an 8.5 C Quad when
          > > > I wiped out. Its a good way to get in shape quickly, as you need
          > > > gorilla strength to push against oncoming water.
          > > >
          > > > But with the hook roller turned up, it seems that the kite could get
          > > > away with a quick pop...sounds even more dangerous to me! How do you
          > > > avoid this?
          > > >
          > > > Jeff
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > jquick-@... wrote:
          > > > original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/kitesurf/?start=4732
          > > > > A comment on the reactor bar and handle loops: I've used a Reactor
          > > > bar for
          > > > > a long time buggying, but with the pulley "upside down" i.e.,
          > > > pointing up.
          > > > > That way if you get in trouble it isn't too hard to yank the loop up
          > > > off the
          > > > > pulley to get free. In early kitesurfing attempts I tried the bar
          > > > the way
          > > > > Windsurfers use it, namely pulley pointed down (with DeKine
          Thermoform
          > > > > harness). Big mistake! I got overpowered a couple times in gusts
          > > > and got
          > > > > bodydragged half submerged. I was scared shitless for longer a few
          > > > seconds.
          > > > > If you're really overpowered the loop is far harder to get free than
          > > > when
          > > > > upside down. I turned the bar back the "wrong" way and haven't had
          > > > problems
          > > > > since.
          > > > >
          > > > > As for loop line length, the right length will depend a lot on how
          > > > much
          > > > > slack there is in the spreader bar. I try to get it as tight as I
          > > > can and
          > > > > use the biggest loop possible so there's more arm movement available
          > > > > (especially key for very big kites).
          > > > >
          > > > > Dave
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > ----- Original Message -----
          > > > > From: <jquick1@...>
          > > > > To: <kitesurf@egroups.com>
          > > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 1999 1:05 PM
          > > > > Subject: [ksurf] Re: 4 line handles vs 4 line bar
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > > Actually, I do have a Reactor Spreader Bar, and I do put one
          finger
          > > > on
          > > > > > top of the handles. This fatigue only happens when I dont harness
          > > > in.
          > > > > > When I do harness in I feel totally out of balance, but I guess I
          > > > need
          > > > > > to get used to it!
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Thanks for the tips,
          > > > > > Jeff
          > > > > >
          > > > > > jquick-@... wrote:
          > > > > > original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/kitesurf/?start=4710
          > > > > > > speleopowe-@... wrote:
          > > > > > > I kitesurf for hours on end with handles. It sounds like you
          > > > need a
          > > > > > > Reator style spreader bar on your harness for ease of control.
          > > > You
          > > > > > can
          > > > > > > steer with one hand no problem. Handles seem to be a better
          > > > choice
          > > > > > > than a bar because they are thinner and the pull is more
          > > > anatomically
          > > > > > > correct. Do you hold your index finger above the top line? If
          > > > you do
          > > > > > > this the pull will be straight through your arm. You might also
          > > > need
          > > > > > a
          > > > > > > shorter harness line. I use about a 18 inch line. If I use to
          > > > long
          > > > > > of
          > > > > > > a harness line you may have trouble reaching other handle when
          > > > you do
          > > > > > a
          > > > > > > full out turn. You can jump hooked in or not hooked in do the
          > > > rail
          > > > > > > grabs and loops and all that other stuff with handles.
          > > > > > > It takes lots of practice but well worth it. Handles give much
          > > > more
          > > > > > > control than a bar on your C-Quad. I used to have 2 C-Quads
          > > > myself.
          > > > > > > good luck and keep practicing.
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > original
          article:http://www.egroups.com/group/kitesurf/?start=4701
          > > > > > > > Has anyone had any problems holding onto 4 line handles while
          > > > > > > > kitesurfing? After about 30 seconds (not harnessed in) my
          > > > forearms
          > > > > > > > begin to give out, which then leads to my grip giving out. I
          > > > ended
          > > > > > up
          > > > > > > > dunking my C Quad as a result.
          > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > I think a bar would have many advantages over handles. For
          > > > one, you
          > > > > > > > would be able to steer (harnessed in of course) with one arm,
          do
          > > > > > rail
          > > > > > > > grabs, and sometimes powerturns with no arms! Also, 360's
          would
          > > > > > seem
          > > > > > > a
          > > > > > > > lot easier. I've tried 2 line kites with a control bar, and
          it
          > > > just
          > > > > > > > seems alot easier.
          > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > Thanks,
          > > > > > > > Jeff
          > > > > > > >
          > > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
          > > > MyPoints-Free Rewards When You're Online.
          > > > Start with up to 150 Points for joining!
          > > > http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/805
          > > >
          > > > To unsubscribe, send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@...
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
          > > MyPoints-Free Rewards When You're Online.
          > > Start with up to 150 Points for joining!
          > > http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/805
          > >
          > > To unsubscribe, send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@...
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
          > MyPoints-Free Rewards When You're Online.
          > Start with up to 150 Points for joining!
          > http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/805
          >
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          >
          >
          >
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