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Airblast 11.8 tuning, relative line tension

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  • Daniel Lamar
    ... It slams down during any attempt at relaunch, and doesn t seem to respond to bar pressure to control the kite. I am just learning to use four line system.
    Message 1 of 7 , Dec 29, 2001
      > I have a new(2001 model) 11.8 airblasts that I can't seem to get to fly.
      It slams down during any attempt at relaunch, and doesn't seem to respond to
      bar pressure to control the kite. I am just learning to use four line
      system. My friend has a 16.0 Rhino that works just fine for me in the same
      light conditions of about 8-12 knots. I think my problem may be the tuning
      of the line tensions between front and back lines. I thought I needed to
      have tension about equal on front and back lines to be powered up as that is
      how it is on the rhino, but it is not working for me. I am considering just
      removing the bridal and attaching directly, but I want the relaunch
      capability for light wind. Any words of advice from those experienced with
      this kite? I was reading some old emails that suggested that the airblast
      needs to have less tension on the back lines than other four line kites.
      Thanks. Daniel

      Daniel C Lamar
      PO BOX 5855 CHRB
      Saipan, MP 96950
      670-322-3606
      danlamar@...
    • callum_downie
      Hi Daniel, Yes the 11.8 ab needs more front line tension than back line. IN light winds though it should only be a little bit. Other things to check because
      Message 2 of 7 , Dec 29, 2001
        Hi Daniel,
        Yes the 11.8 ab needs more front line tension than back line. IN
        light winds though it should only be a little bit.

        Other things to check because this doesn't sound like a tension
        problem, if it is to much backline tension then the ab's tend to fly
        backward into the middle of the window then shoot forward. So make
        sure you have the lines attached correctly, i.e center ones on the
        bar to the leading edge of the kite and outer ones on the bar to the
        trailing edge. Makes sure the bridal is working correctly and free
        from twists and tangles. Make sure the line on the bridal that goes
        to the tip of the second or third strut is totally loose while
        flying/turning , having any tension in this line while flying/turning
        will totally distort the kite. Easy way to check if this is the
        problem, take that section of the line off it'll only take two
        minutes to do this. The line is there purely for reverse launch
        nothing to do with flying. And lastly, make sure all of your lines
        are equal length....

        Hope this helps!!

        Callum

        --- In kitesurf@y..., "Daniel Lamar" <danlamar@i...> wrote:
        >
        > > I have a new(2001 model) 11.8 airblasts that I can't seem to get
        to fly.
        > It slams down during any attempt at relaunch, and doesn't seem to
        respond to
        > bar pressure to control the kite. I am just learning to use four
        line
        > system. My friend has a 16.0 Rhino that works just fine for me in
        the same
        > light conditions of about 8-12 knots. I think my problem may be
        the tuning
        > of the line tensions between front and back lines. I thought I
        needed to
        > have tension about equal on front and back lines to be powered up
        as that is
        > how it is on the rhino, but it is not working for me. I am
        considering just
        > removing the bridal and attaching directly, but I want the relaunch
        > capability for light wind. Any words of advice from those
        experienced with
        > this kite? I was reading some old emails that suggested that the
        airblast
        > needs to have less tension on the back lines than other four line
        kites.
        > Thanks. Daniel
        >
        > Daniel C Lamar
        > PO BOX 5855 CHRB
        > Saipan, MP 96950
        > 670-322-3606
        > danlamar@i...
      • igsmith
        Daniel, I know there has been a lot of discussion on this group about bridals vs. no bridals, but I have recently taken the bridal off my kite and started
        Message 3 of 7 , Dec 31, 2001
          Daniel,

          I know there has been a lot of discussion on this group about bridals
          vs. no bridals, but I have recently taken the bridal off my kite and
          started using a 22 inch bar. The kite seems SO MUCH more responsive
          and I find it makes jumping much easier. Also, I found that when I
          had the bridal on, I was flying "too much on the rear lines", which
          makes the kite very slow (and made it luff). In light wind
          conditions, you need to "fly the kite fast" (pressure on the fronts).

          As a sidenote, it is interesting that I know a bunch of people who
          set their lines up such that they depower the kite by luffing it.

          Taking the bridals off does make it more difficult to relaunch in
          very light winds.

          Ian

          --- In kitesurf@y..., "callum_downie" <callum@d...> wrote:
          > Hi Daniel,
          > Yes the 11.8 ab needs more front line tension than back line. IN
          > light winds though it should only be a little bit.
          >
          > Other things to check because this doesn't sound like a tension
          > problem, if it is to much backline tension then the ab's tend to
          fly
          > backward into the middle of the window then shoot forward. So make
          > sure you have the lines attached correctly, i.e center ones on the
          > bar to the leading edge of the kite and outer ones on the bar to
          the
          > trailing edge. Makes sure the bridal is working correctly and free
          > from twists and tangles. Make sure the line on the bridal that
          goes
          > to the tip of the second or third strut is totally loose while
          > flying/turning , having any tension in this line while
          flying/turning
          > will totally distort the kite. Easy way to check if this is the
          > problem, take that section of the line off it'll only take two
          > minutes to do this. The line is there purely for reverse launch
          > nothing to do with flying. And lastly, make sure all of your lines
          > are equal length....
          >
          > Hope this helps!!
          >
          > Callum
          >
          > --- In kitesurf@y..., "Daniel Lamar" <danlamar@i...> wrote:
          > >
          > > > I have a new(2001 model) 11.8 airblasts that I can't seem to
          get
          > to fly.
          > > It slams down during any attempt at relaunch, and doesn't seem to
          > respond to
          > > bar pressure to control the kite. I am just learning to use four
          > line
          > > system. My friend has a 16.0 Rhino that works just fine for me
          in
          > the same
          > > light conditions of about 8-12 knots. I think my problem may be
          > the tuning
          > > of the line tensions between front and back lines. I thought I
          > needed to
          > > have tension about equal on front and back lines to be powered up
          > as that is
          > > how it is on the rhino, but it is not working for me. I am
          > considering just
          > > removing the bridal and attaching directly, but I want the
          relaunch
          > > capability for light wind. Any words of advice from those
          > experienced with
          > > this kite? I was reading some old emails that suggested that the
          > airblast
          > > needs to have less tension on the back lines than other four line
          > kites.
          > > Thanks. Daniel
          > >
          > > Daniel C Lamar
          > > PO BOX 5855 CHRB
          > > Saipan, MP 96950
          > > 670-322-3606
          > > danlamar@i...
        • peter_frank_dk
          ... This is wrong ! The kite is twice as responsive, for the same angle of the bar - yes. But there is no connection between flying more or less on the rear
          Message 4 of 7 , Dec 31, 2001
            > Also, I found that when I
            > had the bridal on, I was flying "too much on the rear lines", which
            > makes the kite very slow (and made it luff).

            This is wrong !

            The kite is twice as responsive, for the same angle of the bar - yes.
            But there is no connection between flying more or less on the rear
            lines, and using bridals or no bridals.
            In fact quite the opposite - if you are not using bridals, you will
            stall (not luff - I am sure you meant stall - when having too much
            tension on the rear lines) much easier, because you only have to pull
            half the distance on your bar - when in the depower loop - to make it
            stall.

            And the responsiveness of the kite - it is only a matter of what you
            are used to, because the force is very different.

            Are you used to other kites without bridals ?
            If you are - then I can understand your difficulties.
            Otherwise, I can't.

            When you are sinusing, you can go with much less force on the bar
            (1/2) when turning - and it feels much more relaxed for the same
            amount of power. You have to move the bar at the doubled angle - but
            it still feels much more relaxed - and you can definitively turn the
            kite just as fast, because the energy used is exactly the same, but
            your body are much more efficient with a steady low power, than peak
            power up and down.
            If you are used to non-bridals, you have to get used to bridals.
            And vice-versa.
            When I switch to non-bridals, it is difficult to get the right
            approach to taking off (but you get it quite fast).
            But in the air - the problem is even bigger - because I am used to a
            certain angle of the bar, after some rotations - with a given
            kitesize - to get if perfectly aimed forward for the landing - that I
            will always oversteer the kite in the first jumps (and it will be
            aimed downwards - not very comfortable - you will often get hammered
            in the landing)!

            Without bridals you need twice the force on the bar, to turn the kite
            (but the same total energy)
            This is the reason why it is so different with and without.
            I prefer with bridals - and some prefer without bridals !

            :-) Peter Frank


            --- In kitesurf@y..., "igsmith" <igsmith@y...> wrote:
            > Daniel,
            >
            > I know there has been a lot of discussion on this group about
            bridals
            > vs. no bridals, but I have recently taken the bridal off my kite
            and
            > started using a 22 inch bar. The kite seems SO MUCH more responsive
            > and I find it makes jumping much easier. Also, I found that when I
            > had the bridal on, I was flying "too much on the rear lines", which
            > makes the kite very slow (and made it luff). In light wind
            > conditions, you need to "fly the kite fast" (pressure on the
            fronts).
            >
            > As a sidenote, it is interesting that I know a bunch of people who
            > set their lines up such that they depower the kite by luffing it.
            >
            > Taking the bridals off does make it more difficult to relaunch in
            > very light winds.
            >
            > Ian
            >
            > --- In kitesurf@y..., "callum_downie" <callum@d...> wrote:
            > > Hi Daniel,
            > > Yes the 11.8 ab needs more front line tension than back line. IN
            > > light winds though it should only be a little bit.
            > >
            > > Other things to check because this doesn't sound like a tension
            > > problem, if it is to much backline tension then the ab's tend to
            > fly
            > > backward into the middle of the window then shoot forward. So
            make
            > > sure you have the lines attached correctly, i.e center ones on
            the
            > > bar to the leading edge of the kite and outer ones on the bar to
            > the
            > > trailing edge. Makes sure the bridal is working correctly and
            free
            > > from twists and tangles. Make sure the line on the bridal that
            > goes
            > > to the tip of the second or third strut is totally loose while
            > > flying/turning , having any tension in this line while
            > flying/turning
            > > will totally distort the kite. Easy way to check if this is the
            > > problem, take that section of the line off it'll only take two
            > > minutes to do this. The line is there purely for reverse launch
            > > nothing to do with flying. And lastly, make sure all of your
            lines
            > > are equal length....
            > >
            > > Hope this helps!!
            > >
            > > Callum
            > >
            > > --- In kitesurf@y..., "Daniel Lamar" <danlamar@i...> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > > I have a new(2001 model) 11.8 airblasts that I can't seem to
            > get
            > > to fly.
            > > > It slams down during any attempt at relaunch, and doesn't seem
            to
            > > respond to
            > > > bar pressure to control the kite. I am just learning to use
            four
            > > line
            > > > system. My friend has a 16.0 Rhino that works just fine for
            me
            > in
            > > the same
            > > > light conditions of about 8-12 knots. I think my problem may
            be
            > > the tuning
            > > > of the line tensions between front and back lines. I thought I
            > > needed to
            > > > have tension about equal on front and back lines to be powered
            up
            > > as that is
            > > > how it is on the rhino, but it is not working for me. I am
            > > considering just
            > > > removing the bridal and attaching directly, but I want the
            > relaunch
            > > > capability for light wind. Any words of advice from those
            > > experienced with
            > > > this kite? I was reading some old emails that suggested that
            the
            > > airblast
            > > > needs to have less tension on the back lines than other four
            line
            > > kites.
            > > > Thanks. Daniel
            > > >
            > > > Daniel C Lamar
            > > > PO BOX 5855 CHRB
            > > > Saipan, MP 96950
            > > > 670-322-3606
            > > > danlamar@i...
          • peter_frank_dk
            I forgot to mention one thing: When using bridles - you only need half the force, to hold the bar, when in the depowerloop !!! This is very important, because
            Message 5 of 7 , Jan 1, 2002
              I forgot to mention one thing:
              When using bridles - you only need half the force, to hold the bar,
              when in the depowerloop !!!
              This is very important, because it encourages you to fly fully
              powered, and in the loop, most of the time.
              It can be quite tiresome for your arms, to hold a bar all day - if
              you don't have bridles (and you fly in the loop all the time - as
              most experienced kiters do in power conditions)!

              And Ian - you could be right about saying you fly more on the back
              lines - because you are not used to this "low force" - you will
              easier pull to much in the bar, thus stalling the kite.
              But this is only because you are not used to this.
              When using bridles - you get in fact a kite which will not stall as
              easy, because the distance will be doubled, before this happens.

              :-) Peter

              --- In kitesurf@y..., "peter_frank_dk" <pf@4...> wrote:
              > > Also, I found that when I
              > > had the bridal on, I was flying "too much on the rear lines",
              which
              > > makes the kite very slow (and made it luff).
              >
              > This is wrong !
              >
              > The kite is twice as responsive, for the same angle of the bar -
              yes.
              > But there is no connection between flying more or less on the rear
              > lines, and using bridals or no bridals.
              > In fact quite the opposite - if you are not using bridals, you will
              > stall (not luff - I am sure you meant stall - when having too much
              > tension on the rear lines) much easier, because you only have to
              pull
              > half the distance on your bar - when in the depower loop - to make
              it
              > stall.
              >
              > And the responsiveness of the kite - it is only a matter of what
              you
              > are used to, because the force is very different.
              >
              > Are you used to other kites without bridals ?
              > If you are - then I can understand your difficulties.
              > Otherwise, I can't.
              >
              > When you are sinusing, you can go with much less force on the bar
              > (1/2) when turning - and it feels much more relaxed for the same
              > amount of power. You have to move the bar at the doubled angle -
              but
              > it still feels much more relaxed - and you can definitively turn
              the
              > kite just as fast, because the energy used is exactly the same, but
              > your body are much more efficient with a steady low power, than
              peak
              > power up and down.
              > If you are used to non-bridals, you have to get used to bridals.
              > And vice-versa.
              > When I switch to non-bridals, it is difficult to get the right
              > approach to taking off (but you get it quite fast).
              > But in the air - the problem is even bigger - because I am used to
              a
              > certain angle of the bar, after some rotations - with a given
              > kitesize - to get if perfectly aimed forward for the landing - that
              I
              > will always oversteer the kite in the first jumps (and it will be
              > aimed downwards - not very comfortable - you will often get
              hammered
              > in the landing)!
              >
              > Without bridals you need twice the force on the bar, to turn the
              kite
              > (but the same total energy)
              > This is the reason why it is so different with and without.
              > I prefer with bridals - and some prefer without bridals !
              >
              > :-) Peter Frank
              >
              >
              > --- In kitesurf@y..., "igsmith" <igsmith@y...> wrote:
              > > Daniel,
              > >
              > > I know there has been a lot of discussion on this group about
              > bridals
              > > vs. no bridals, but I have recently taken the bridal off my kite
              > and
              > > started using a 22 inch bar. The kite seems SO MUCH more
              responsive
              > > and I find it makes jumping much easier. Also, I found that when
              I
              > > had the bridal on, I was flying "too much on the rear lines",
              which
              > > makes the kite very slow (and made it luff). In light wind
              > > conditions, you need to "fly the kite fast" (pressure on the
              > fronts).
              > >
              > > As a sidenote, it is interesting that I know a bunch of people
              who
              > > set their lines up such that they depower the kite by luffing it.
              > >
              > > Taking the bridals off does make it more difficult to relaunch in
              > > very light winds.
              > >
              > > Ian
              > >
              > > --- In kitesurf@y..., "callum_downie" <callum@d...> wrote:
              > > > Hi Daniel,
              > > > Yes the 11.8 ab needs more front line tension than back line.
              IN
              > > > light winds though it should only be a little bit.
              > > >
              > > > Other things to check because this doesn't sound like a tension
              > > > problem, if it is to much backline tension then the ab's tend
              to
              > > fly
              > > > backward into the middle of the window then shoot forward. So
              > make
              > > > sure you have the lines attached correctly, i.e center ones on
              > the
              > > > bar to the leading edge of the kite and outer ones on the bar
              to
              > > the
              > > > trailing edge. Makes sure the bridal is working correctly and
              > free
              > > > from twists and tangles. Make sure the line on the bridal that
              > > goes
              > > > to the tip of the second or third strut is totally loose while
              > > > flying/turning , having any tension in this line while
              > > flying/turning
              > > > will totally distort the kite. Easy way to check if this is the
              > > > problem, take that section of the line off it'll only take two
              > > > minutes to do this. The line is there purely for reverse launch
              > > > nothing to do with flying. And lastly, make sure all of your
              > lines
              > > > are equal length....
              > > >
              > > > Hope this helps!!
              > > >
              > > > Callum
              > > >
              > > > --- In kitesurf@y..., "Daniel Lamar" <danlamar@i...> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > > I have a new(2001 model) 11.8 airblasts that I can't seem
              to
              > > get
              > > > to fly.
              > > > > It slams down during any attempt at relaunch, and doesn't
              seem
              > to
              > > > respond to
              > > > > bar pressure to control the kite. I am just learning to use
              > four
              > > > line
              > > > > system. My friend has a 16.0 Rhino that works just fine for
              > me
              > > in
              > > > the same
              > > > > light conditions of about 8-12 knots. I think my problem may
              > be
              > > > the tuning
              > > > > of the line tensions between front and back lines. I thought
              I
              > > > needed to
              > > > > have tension about equal on front and back lines to be
              powered
              > up
              > > > as that is
              > > > > how it is on the rhino, but it is not working for me. I am
              > > > considering just
              > > > > removing the bridal and attaching directly, but I want the
              > > relaunch
              > > > > capability for light wind. Any words of advice from those
              > > > experienced with
              > > > > this kite? I was reading some old emails that suggested that
              > the
              > > > airblast
              > > > > needs to have less tension on the back lines than other four
              > line
              > > > kites.
              > > > > Thanks. Daniel
              > > > >
              > > > > Daniel C Lamar
              > > > > PO BOX 5855 CHRB
              > > > > Saipan, MP 96950
              > > > > 670-322-3606
              > > > > danlamar@i...
            • igsmith
              Well...I am correct that I stalled (what I call luff) the kite much more with bridals...but maybe not for the reasons I originally thought...it may be that the
              Message 6 of 7 , Jan 1, 2002
                Well...I am correct that I stalled (what I call luff) the kite much
                more with bridals...but maybe not for the reasons I originally
                thought...it may be that the lines weren't adjusted correctly and/or
                the lighter bar pressure made it easier for me to do so. In any
                event, I think this kite needs to fly "fast" or on the "fronts" to
                generate power in low wind conditions.

                You are correct in that my other kites have no bridal with the AB11.8
                the only one with bridal. Being used to the other kites, I found I
                liked the similarity of feel vis a vis bar angle.

                I agree also with your thoughts regarding responsiveness, force and
                total energy. No bridals=more responsiveness for a given bar angle,
                more maximal force and same total energy requirement as bridals,
                which=less responsiveness for a given bar angle, less maximal force
                and same total energy.

                In the end, I guess the key thought is that it may be worthwhile for
                people who are used to flying kites without bridals to try it with
                the AB. They may like it!

                Ian


                > > Also, I found that when I
                > > had the bridal on, I was flying "too much on the rear lines",
                which
                > > makes the kite very slow (and made it luff).
                >
                > This is wrong !
                >
                > The kite is twice as responsive, for the same angle of the bar -
                yes.
                > But there is no connection between flying more or less on the rear
                > lines, and using bridals or no bridals.
                > In fact quite the opposite - if you are not using bridals, you will
                > stall (not luff - I am sure you meant stall - when having too much
                > tension on the rear lines) much easier, because you only have to
                pull
                > half the distance on your bar - when in the depower loop - to make
                it
                > stall.
                >
                > And the responsiveness of the kite - it is only a matter of what
                you
                > are used to, because the force is very different.
                >
                > Are you used to other kites without bridals ?
                > If you are - then I can understand your difficulties.
                > Otherwise, I can't.
                >
                > When you are sinusing, you can go with much less force on the bar
                > (1/2) when turning - and it feels much more relaxed for the same
                > amount of power. You have to move the bar at the doubled angle -
                but
                > it still feels much more relaxed - and you can definitively turn
                the
                > kite just as fast, because the energy used is exactly the same, but
                > your body are much more efficient with a steady low power, than
                peak
                > power up and down.
                > If you are used to non-bridals, you have to get used to bridals.
                > And vice-versa.
                > When I switch to non-bridals, it is difficult to get the right
                > approach to taking off (but you get it quite fast).
                > But in the air - the problem is even bigger - because I am used to
                a
                > certain angle of the bar, after some rotations - with a given
                > kitesize - to get if perfectly aimed forward for the landing - that
                I
                > will always oversteer the kite in the first jumps (and it will be
                > aimed downwards - not very comfortable - you will often get
                hammered
                > in the landing)!
                >
                > Without bridals you need twice the force on the bar, to turn the
                kite
                > (but the same total energy)
                > This is the reason why it is so different with and without.
                > I prefer with bridals - and some prefer without bridals !
                >
                > :-) Peter Frank
                >
                >
                > --- In kitesurf@y..., "igsmith" <igsmith@y...> wrote:
                > > Daniel,
                > >
                > > I know there has been a lot of discussion on this group about
                > bridals
                > > vs. no bridals, but I have recently taken the bridal off my kite
                > and
                > > started using a 22 inch bar. The kite seems SO MUCH more
                responsive
                > > and I find it makes jumping much easier. Also, I found that when
                I
                > > had the bridal on, I was flying "too much on the rear lines",
                which
                > > makes the kite very slow (and made it luff). In light wind
                > > conditions, you need to "fly the kite fast" (pressure on the
                > fronts).
                > >
                > > As a sidenote, it is interesting that I know a bunch of people
                who
                > > set their lines up such that they depower the kite by luffing it.
                > >
                > > Taking the bridals off does make it more difficult to relaunch in
                > > very light winds.
                > >
                > > Ian
                > >
                > > --- In kitesurf@y..., "callum_downie" <callum@d...> wrote:
                > > > Hi Daniel,
                > > > Yes the 11.8 ab needs more front line tension than back line.
                IN
                > > > light winds though it should only be a little bit.
                > > >
                > > > Other things to check because this doesn't sound like a tension
                > > > problem, if it is to much backline tension then the ab's tend
                to
                > > fly
                > > > backward into the middle of the window then shoot forward. So
                > make
                > > > sure you have the lines attached correctly, i.e center ones on
                > the
                > > > bar to the leading edge of the kite and outer ones on the bar
                to
                > > the
                > > > trailing edge. Makes sure the bridal is working correctly and
                > free
                > > > from twists and tangles. Make sure the line on the bridal that
                > > goes
                > > > to the tip of the second or third strut is totally loose while
                > > > flying/turning , having any tension in this line while
                > > flying/turning
                > > > will totally distort the kite. Easy way to check if this is the
                > > > problem, take that section of the line off it'll only take two
                > > > minutes to do this. The line is there purely for reverse launch
                > > > nothing to do with flying. And lastly, make sure all of your
                > lines
                > > > are equal length....
                > > >
                > > > Hope this helps!!
                > > >
                > > > Callum
                > > >
                > > > --- In kitesurf@y..., "Daniel Lamar" <danlamar@i...> wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > > I have a new(2001 model) 11.8 airblasts that I can't seem
                to
                > > get
                > > > to fly.
                > > > > It slams down during any attempt at relaunch, and doesn't
                seem
                > to
                > > > respond to
                > > > > bar pressure to control the kite. I am just learning to use
                > four
                > > > line
                > > > > system. My friend has a 16.0 Rhino that works just fine for
                > me
                > > in
                > > > the same
                > > > > light conditions of about 8-12 knots. I think my problem may
                > be
                > > > the tuning
                > > > > of the line tensions between front and back lines. I thought
                I
                > > > needed to
                > > > > have tension about equal on front and back lines to be
                powered
                > up
                > > > as that is
                > > > > how it is on the rhino, but it is not working for me. I am
                > > > considering just
                > > > > removing the bridal and attaching directly, but I want the
                > > relaunch
                > > > > capability for light wind. Any words of advice from those
                > > > experienced with
                > > > > this kite? I was reading some old emails that suggested that
                > the
                > > > airblast
                > > > > needs to have less tension on the back lines than other four
                > line
                > > > kites.
                > > > > Thanks. Daniel
                > > > >
                > > > > Daniel C Lamar
                > > > > PO BOX 5855 CHRB
                > > > > Saipan, MP 96950
                > > > > 670-322-3606
                > > > > danlamar@i...
              • igsmith
                I found that when I used the bridals the line pressure was so light I even considered taking off my fixed harness loop and relied a lot on the depower loop in
                Message 7 of 7 , Jan 1, 2002
                  I found that when I used the bridals the line pressure was so light I
                  even considered taking off my fixed harness loop and relied a lot on
                  the depower loop in hi wind/gusty situations. Now, however, I prefer
                  to fly in the fixed harness line and use the board to edge out of
                  those conditions, thus flying more powered more of the time. (I snap
                  shackle into the depower loop and am most of the time in the fixed
                  harness line, which tends to save my arms).

                  Also, see my previous post re: your thoughts on stalling. I agree
                  with you that I must have been pulling in the bar too much which
                  seems to make the kite slow and inefficient when sine-curving.

                  Ian

                  -- In kitesurf@y..., "peter_frank_dk" <pf@4...> wrote:
                  > I forgot to mention one thing:
                  > When using bridles - you only need half the force, to hold the bar,
                  > when in the depowerloop !!!
                  > This is very important, because it encourages you to fly fully
                  > powered, and in the loop, most of the time.
                  > It can be quite tiresome for your arms, to hold a bar all day - if
                  > you don't have bridles (and you fly in the loop all the time - as
                  > most experienced kiters do in power conditions)!
                  >
                  > And Ian - you could be right about saying you fly more on the back
                  > lines - because you are not used to this "low force" - you will
                  > easier pull to much in the bar, thus stalling the kite.
                  > But this is only because you are not used to this.
                  > When using bridles - you get in fact a kite which will not stall as
                  > easy, because the distance will be doubled, before this happens.
                  >
                  > :-) Peter
                  >
                  > --- In kitesurf@y..., "peter_frank_dk" <pf@4...> wrote:
                  > > > Also, I found that when I
                  > > > had the bridal on, I was flying "too much on the rear lines",
                  > which
                  > > > makes the kite very slow (and made it luff).
                  > >
                  > > This is wrong !
                  > >
                  > > The kite is twice as responsive, for the same angle of the bar -
                  > yes.
                  > > But there is no connection between flying more or less on the
                  rear
                  > > lines, and using bridals or no bridals.
                  > > In fact quite the opposite - if you are not using bridals, you
                  will
                  > > stall (not luff - I am sure you meant stall - when having too
                  much
                  > > tension on the rear lines) much easier, because you only have to
                  > pull
                  > > half the distance on your bar - when in the depower loop - to
                  make
                  > it
                  > > stall.
                  > >
                  > > And the responsiveness of the kite - it is only a matter of what
                  > you
                  > > are used to, because the force is very different.
                  > >
                  > > Are you used to other kites without bridals ?
                  > > If you are - then I can understand your difficulties.
                  > > Otherwise, I can't.
                  > >
                  > > When you are sinusing, you can go with much less force on the bar
                  > > (1/2) when turning - and it feels much more relaxed for the same
                  > > amount of power. You have to move the bar at the doubled angle -
                  > but
                  > > it still feels much more relaxed - and you can definitively turn
                  > the
                  > > kite just as fast, because the energy used is exactly the same,
                  but
                  > > your body are much more efficient with a steady low power, than
                  > peak
                  > > power up and down.
                  > > If you are used to non-bridals, you have to get used to bridals.
                  > > And vice-versa.
                  > > When I switch to non-bridals, it is difficult to get the right
                  > > approach to taking off (but you get it quite fast).
                  > > But in the air - the problem is even bigger - because I am used
                  to
                  > a
                  > > certain angle of the bar, after some rotations - with a given
                  > > kitesize - to get if perfectly aimed forward for the landing -
                  that
                  > I
                  > > will always oversteer the kite in the first jumps (and it will be
                  > > aimed downwards - not very comfortable - you will often get
                  > hammered
                  > > in the landing)!
                  > >
                  > > Without bridals you need twice the force on the bar, to turn the
                  > kite
                  > > (but the same total energy)
                  > > This is the reason why it is so different with and without.
                  > > I prefer with bridals - and some prefer without bridals !
                  > >
                  > > :-) Peter Frank
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --- In kitesurf@y..., "igsmith" <igsmith@y...> wrote:
                  > > > Daniel,
                  > > >
                  > > > I know there has been a lot of discussion on this group about
                  > > bridals
                  > > > vs. no bridals, but I have recently taken the bridal off my
                  kite
                  > > and
                  > > > started using a 22 inch bar. The kite seems SO MUCH more
                  > responsive
                  > > > and I find it makes jumping much easier. Also, I found that
                  when
                  > I
                  > > > had the bridal on, I was flying "too much on the rear lines",
                  > which
                  > > > makes the kite very slow (and made it luff). In light wind
                  > > > conditions, you need to "fly the kite fast" (pressure on the
                  > > fronts).
                  > > >
                  > > > As a sidenote, it is interesting that I know a bunch of people
                  > who
                  > > > set their lines up such that they depower the kite by luffing
                  it.
                  > > >
                  > > > Taking the bridals off does make it more difficult to relaunch
                  in
                  > > > very light winds.
                  > > >
                  > > > Ian
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In kitesurf@y..., "callum_downie" <callum@d...> wrote:
                  > > > > Hi Daniel,
                  > > > > Yes the 11.8 ab needs more front line tension than back line.
                  > IN
                  > > > > light winds though it should only be a little bit.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Other things to check because this doesn't sound like a
                  tension
                  > > > > problem, if it is to much backline tension then the ab's tend
                  > to
                  > > > fly
                  > > > > backward into the middle of the window then shoot forward. So
                  > > make
                  > > > > sure you have the lines attached correctly, i.e center ones
                  on
                  > > the
                  > > > > bar to the leading edge of the kite and outer ones on the bar
                  > to
                  > > > the
                  > > > > trailing edge. Makes sure the bridal is working correctly
                  and
                  > > free
                  > > > > from twists and tangles. Make sure the line on the bridal
                  that
                  > > > goes
                  > > > > to the tip of the second or third strut is totally loose
                  while
                  > > > > flying/turning , having any tension in this line while
                  > > > flying/turning
                  > > > > will totally distort the kite. Easy way to check if this is
                  the
                  > > > > problem, take that section of the line off it'll only take
                  two
                  > > > > minutes to do this. The line is there purely for reverse
                  launch
                  > > > > nothing to do with flying. And lastly, make sure all of your
                  > > lines
                  > > > > are equal length....
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Hope this helps!!
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Callum
                  > > > >
                  > > > > --- In kitesurf@y..., "Daniel Lamar" <danlamar@i...> wrote:
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > > I have a new(2001 model) 11.8 airblasts that I can't seem
                  > to
                  > > > get
                  > > > > to fly.
                  > > > > > It slams down during any attempt at relaunch, and doesn't
                  > seem
                  > > to
                  > > > > respond to
                  > > > > > bar pressure to control the kite. I am just learning to
                  use
                  > > four
                  > > > > line
                  > > > > > system. My friend has a 16.0 Rhino that works just fine
                  for
                  > > me
                  > > > in
                  > > > > the same
                  > > > > > light conditions of about 8-12 knots. I think my problem
                  may
                  > > be
                  > > > > the tuning
                  > > > > > of the line tensions between front and back lines. I
                  thought
                  > I
                  > > > > needed to
                  > > > > > have tension about equal on front and back lines to be
                  > powered
                  > > up
                  > > > > as that is
                  > > > > > how it is on the rhino, but it is not working for me. I am
                  > > > > considering just
                  > > > > > removing the bridal and attaching directly, but I want the
                  > > > relaunch
                  > > > > > capability for light wind. Any words of advice from those
                  > > > > experienced with
                  > > > > > this kite? I was reading some old emails that suggested
                  that
                  > > the
                  > > > > airblast
                  > > > > > needs to have less tension on the back lines than other
                  four
                  > > line
                  > > > > kites.
                  > > > > > Thanks. Daniel
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Daniel C Lamar
                  > > > > > PO BOX 5855 CHRB
                  > > > > > Saipan, MP 96950
                  > > > > > 670-322-3606
                  > > > > > danlamar@i...
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