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Re: Reel-leash idea - almost leashless

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  • thorpes@arklogic.com
    ... neck ... That could just as easily happen with a kiteline ( and already has in at least one case I heard of! ) But I don t too much like the idea of being
    Message 1 of 19 , Nov 1, 2001
      --- In kitesurf@y..., c_batalha@c... wrote:
      > > Has anyone ever considered making a a really long reel leash from
      > > much thinner webbing or line ( maybe kite line ).
      >
      > Would you like the idea of having that thinner leash around your
      neck
      > in a big crash??? The kite pulling in one direction and the board
      > been dragged behind you!!!
      >
      > I WOULDN'T LIKE, and I'm sure you neither!!

      That could just as easily happen with a kiteline ( and already has in
      at least one case I heard of! )
      But I don't too much like the idea of being knocked unconscious or
      having my neck or back broken by the sling-shot action of a sharped-
      edged twintip, half a mile offshore, and I'm sure you and many others
      don't like the idea either, but many of us ride with leashes that can
      and have caused serious injuries. And many refuse to wear helmets.
      You choose your risk - I'll choose mine.

      Actually my next crazy idea involves a board retreival method with no
      risk of sling-shot, no retractible garrote attaching you to the board
      and--if it works--a 92.3% chance of board retreival in all conditions
      except thick kelp. ;-)


      Steve T.
    • Rainer Leuschke
      ... What is it, what is it? A spring loaded mini sail that pops up when you pop off to sail the board downwind faster? 8P R!
      Message 2 of 19 , Nov 1, 2001
        On Thu, 1 Nov 2001 thorpes@... wrote:
        > Actually my next crazy idea involves a board retreival method with no
        > risk of sling-shot, no retractible garrote attaching you to the board
        > and--if it works--a 92.3% chance of board retreival in all conditions
        > except thick kelp. ;-)

        What is it, what is it? A spring loaded mini sail that pops up when you
        pop off to sail the board downwind faster? 8P

        R!
      • thorpes@arklogic.com
        ... with no ... board ... conditions ... you ... Nope - although that is where my idea started. Obviously that would only have a 43.7% of board retreival
        Message 3 of 19 , Nov 1, 2001
          --- In kitesurf@y..., Rainer Leuschke <rainer@u...> wrote:
          >
          > On Thu, 1 Nov 2001 thorpes@a... wrote:
          > > Actually my next crazy idea involves a board retreival method
          with no
          > > risk of sling-shot, no retractible garrote attaching you to the
          board
          > > and--if it works--a 92.3% chance of board retreival in all
          conditions
          > > except thick kelp. ;-)
          >
          > What is it, what is it? A spring loaded mini sail that pops up when
          you
          > pop off to sail the board downwind faster? 8P
          >
          > R!

          Nope - although that is where my idea started. Obviously that would
          only have a 43.7% of board retreival though - there would be a 50%
          chance of it landing upsidedown renering the spring loaded sail
          useless then a further 6.3% chance of failure due to other
          circumstances. My new idea would work (theoretically) whichever way
          up the board landed ;-)

          Keep guessing - I'll test it out next time I'm on the water.

          Steve T.
        • Rainer Leuschke
          ... Yeah, that s what I figured too, unless you have a sail on either side and only pop up the top one. Tricky to implement 8) ... How bout a baloon/bladder
          Message 4 of 19 , Nov 1, 2001
            On Thu, 1 Nov 2001 thorpes@... wrote:
            > only have a 43.7% of board retreival though - there would be a 50%

            Yeah, that's what I figured too, unless you have a sail on either side and
            only pop up the top one. Tricky to implement 8)

            > Keep guessing - I'll test it out next time I'm on the water.

            How 'bout a baloon/bladder inflating when you eject? If it lands upside
            down the bladder could flip it over. Not sure how to
            reset the apparatus though. Getting closer?

            R!
          • thorpes@arklogic.com
            ... side and ... upside ... Much closer - in fact you are too close - try to get a little farther away ;-) Steve T.
            Message 5 of 19 , Nov 1, 2001
              --- In kitesurf@y..., Rainer Leuschke <rainer@u...> wrote:
              >
              > On Thu, 1 Nov 2001 thorpes@a... wrote:
              > > only have a 43.7% of board retreival though - there would be a 50%
              >
              > Yeah, that's what I figured too, unless you have a sail on either
              side and
              > only pop up the top one. Tricky to implement 8)
              >
              > > Keep guessing - I'll test it out next time I'm on the water.
              >
              > How 'bout a baloon/bladder inflating when you eject? If it lands
              upside
              > down the bladder could flip it over. Not sure how to
              > reset the apparatus though. Getting closer?
              >
              > R!

              Much closer - in fact you are "too close" - try to get a
              little "farther away" ;-)

              Steve T.
            • thorpes@arklogic.com
              ... Okay - here s the idea ... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kitesurf/files/TinMan/LeashlessBoard.jpg with the right materials this shuold be able to compress
              Message 6 of 19 , Nov 1, 2001
                --- In kitesurf@y..., Rainer Leuschke <rainer@u...> wrote:

                > How 'bout a baloon/bladder inflating when you eject?...

                > ... Getting closer?


                Okay - here's the idea ...

                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kitesurf/files/TinMan/LeashlessBoard.jpg

                with the right materials this shuold be able to compress into a
                package no larger than a reel leash - an elastic-necked pouch worn
                neck down, on the ankle.

                So waddaya think?
                How will this one kill me. Carlos? ;-)

                Steve T.
              • c_batalha@clix.pt
                I must say that this system is, at least, original!!! Just to know... How would you retrieve the system again? Carlos PS: Altought this could work fine, I
                Message 7 of 19 , Nov 1, 2001
                  I must say that this system is, at least, original!!!

                  Just to know... How would you retrieve the system again?

                  Carlos
                  PS: Altought this could work fine, I prefer my "old" surfboard leash
                  and my helmet when I ride my TT!!

                  PS2: Just to know... I rarely have really bad crashs in my TT, cause
                  I usually ride wakeboards and just use my TT in very light winds!!


                  --- In kitesurf@y..., thorpes@a... wrote:
                  > --- In kitesurf@y..., Rainer Leuschke <rainer@u...> wrote:
                  >
                  > > How 'bout a baloon/bladder inflating when you eject?...
                  >
                  > > ... Getting closer?
                  >
                  >
                  > Okay - here's the idea ...
                  >
                  >
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kitesurf/files/TinMan/LeashlessBoard.jpg
                  >
                  > with the right materials this shuold be able to compress into a
                  > package no larger than a reel leash - an elastic-necked pouch worn
                  > neck down, on the ankle.
                  >
                  > So waddaya think?
                  > How will this one kill me. Carlos? ;-)
                  >
                  > Steve T.
                • thorpes@arklogic.com
                  ... I figured you just sqish it up into a ball and stuff it back in the pouch (which is anchored to your leg or harness) - ready to go again! ... Hey - I m
                  Message 8 of 19 , Nov 1, 2001
                    --- In kitesurf@y..., c_batalha@c... wrote:
                    > I must say that this system is, at least, original!!!
                    >
                    > Just to know... How would you retrieve the system again?

                    I figured you just sqish it up into a ball and stuff it back in the
                    pouch (which is anchored to your leg or harness) - ready to go again!


                    > Carlos
                    > PS: Altought this could work fine, I prefer my "old"
                    > surfboard leash and my helmet when I ride my TT!!

                    Hey - I'm happy with my reel-leash + Gath on my LWD 169
                    but there seemed to be a lot of people who would like to
                    go leashless except for the possibility of loosing a board.

                    PS - even if this idea does not work to retrieve the board
                    something similar could vastly improve the chances of
                    seeing a lost board in the ocean.


                    Steve T.
                  • janwcoffey@yahoo.com
                    I m back from Maui, had a greate time. I have the solution. Weare a really short leash, and use a wakeboard. After only having the wakeboard for the whole
                    Message 9 of 19 , Nov 1, 2001
                      I'm back from Maui, had a greate time.

                      I have the solution. Weare a really short leash, and use a wakeboard.

                      After only having the wakeboard for the whole week, I don't
                      see any reason to ride my twin, just put up a bigger kite.

                      If my girl wasn't interested in learning I would sell the twin.

                      Jan

                      --- In kitesurf@y..., thorpes@a... wrote:
                      > --- In kitesurf@y..., c_batalha@c... wrote:
                      > > I must say that this system is, at least, original!!!
                      > >
                      > > Just to know... How would you retrieve the system again?
                      >
                      > I figured you just sqish it up into a ball and stuff it back in the
                      > pouch (which is anchored to your leg or harness) - ready to go
                      again!
                      >
                      >
                      > > Carlos
                      > > PS: Altought this could work fine, I prefer my "old"
                      > > surfboard leash and my helmet when I ride my TT!!
                      >
                      > Hey - I'm happy with my reel-leash + Gath on my LWD 169
                      > but there seemed to be a lot of people who would like to
                      > go leashless except for the possibility of loosing a board.
                      >
                      > PS - even if this idea does not work to retrieve the board
                      > something similar could vastly improve the chances of
                      > seeing a lost board in the ocean.
                      >
                      >
                      > Steve T.
                    • c_batalha@clix.pt
                      YAHHHH!!! Someone that shares my opinion!!! You can always use a wakeboard... just use more kite!!! And, once my girl doesn t wanna try this sport, I think
                      Message 10 of 19 , Nov 1, 2001
                        YAHHHH!!!
                        Someone that shares my opinion!!! You can always use a wakeboard...
                        just use more kite!!!

                        And, once my girl doesn't wanna try this sport, I think I'll sell my
                        brunotti mirror 180!

                        Carlos



                        --- In kitesurf@y..., janwcoffey@y... wrote:
                        >
                        > I'm back from Maui, had a greate time.
                        >
                        > I have the solution. Weare a really short leash, and use a
                        wakeboard.
                        >
                        > After only having the wakeboard for the whole week, I don't
                        > see any reason to ride my twin, just put up a bigger kite.
                        >
                        > If my girl wasn't interested in learning I would sell the twin.
                        >
                        > Jan
                        >
                        > --- In kitesurf@y..., thorpes@a... wrote:
                        > > --- In kitesurf@y..., c_batalha@c... wrote:
                        > > > I must say that this system is, at least, original!!!
                        > > >
                        > > > Just to know... How would you retrieve the system again?
                        > >
                        > > I figured you just sqish it up into a ball and stuff it back in
                        the
                        > > pouch (which is anchored to your leg or harness) - ready to go
                        > again!
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > > Carlos
                        > > > PS: Altought this could work fine, I prefer my "old"
                        > > > surfboard leash and my helmet when I ride my TT!!
                        > >
                        > > Hey - I'm happy with my reel-leash + Gath on my LWD 169
                        > > but there seemed to be a lot of people who would like to
                        > > go leashless except for the possibility of loosing a board.
                        > >
                        > > PS - even if this idea does not work to retrieve the board
                        > > something similar could vastly improve the chances of
                        > > seeing a lost board in the ocean.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Steve T.
                      • Iain Drummond
                        Tried a 7.wibble Airblast, delaminating quicker than I can peel onions, and an F-One TT of some sort (180ish?) a few months ago and decided it seemed like fun.
                        Message 11 of 19 , Nov 8, 2001
                          Tried a 7.wibble Airblast, delaminating quicker than I can peel onions,
                          and an F-One TT of some sort (180ish?) a few months ago and decided it
                          seemed like fun. Not much practice later (barely managed to get on top
                          of the board in some light winds) I shelled out for a BT 9.4 and a BIC
                          175. I’ve been buggying for about and fly really bad-tempered 4-liners
                          as well as paragliders, so this seemed like a reasonable choice.
                          Firstly, a few words about the kit…
                          I know what kites are supposed to look like and boy was I impressed with
                          the BT. Excellent build quality, instruction book(?), bar, lines, bag
                          and the new bladders (so I’ve been reassured). It flies extremely well
                          and I found the chicken loop superb, giving about 50-60% depower
                          (although I didn’t exactly measure it). Oh, and I bought a board bag and
                          leash as well – again, excellent quality, etc, etc. Absolutely no
                          complaints about Cabrinha gear that I can’t pin down to my own
                          incompetence.
                          The board looks gorgeous. Seems a shame to go out and trash it. Can’t
                          say yet whether it’s any good (on account of me being really crap), but
                          the quality is high. Cute little set of fins, loop bindings designed for
                          the tropics (lots of padding) rather than Scottish water in winter
                          (heating elements), really nice fold-over stainless bolts. Didn’t get an
                          Allen key, which was a bit of a nuisance, but the graphics are cute and
                          it looks the part.
                          I’m not saying that this stuff is better than anything else, just that I
                          don’t think I’ve been shafted, particularly on the quality issue that
                          seems to be a rather hot topic at the moment. Believe me, I would be
                          moaning along with the rest of you if I thought otherwise.
                          Here are a few simple questions for you gurus out there and a vaguely
                          amusing tale of me trying to kill myself after a series of unfortunate
                          circumstances.

                          1) I can’t reach the trim loop whilst under way – urgently or otherwise.
                          Presumably I just need to shorten all of the leaders until I can reach
                          it. That provided some minutes of amusement for the onlookers.

                          2) When fully depowered (trim right in and lines on long at front and
                          short at back knots) the kite is extremely eager (i.e. seems impossible
                          to actually prevent) to take off from the water. What’s the easiest way
                          of killing the whole thing controllably? I don’t want to throw away the
                          bar ‘cos my lines always seem to get tangled. Flying to the edge of the
                          window is the obvious choice, but that assumes I’m not just recovering
                          from my last ditching which inevitably leaves the kite well in the power
                          zone (usually leaping into the sky just as I get my head above the water
                          again). Slam, glug, slam, glug, etc. You get the picture :-) Is this
                          just because it’s fully depowered, or my incompetence?

                          3) These board leash things, how long do people recon they should be? My
                          board is quite short, does this mean I can get away with less leash and
                          therefore less chance of the damn thing getting wrapped around my legs?
                          I'm not confident enough to contemplate binning the leash unless I'm
                          wearing a pair of fins (but then again, see below...).

                          4) Assuming I’m taking a course to my right, any comments on which foot
                          I should put in the loops first?

                          5) Do people tend to park things like BTs at the top and then put their
                          board on, or dump the kite, get in the board and then relaunch?

                          So you probably get the idea that I’m a bit incompetent, but eager to
                          learn. Learn I did, and hopefully someone else can learn the easy way
                          too.

                          The dodgy scenario…

                          Wind gusting to 22/23mph from 18 (measured on trusty paragliding wind
                          meter). Rigged BT fully depowered then spent about 2hrs body dragging,
                          including almost managing to get upwind. VERY IMPRESSED with kite. I’m
                          using the chicken loop (first thing I did was take the full-power one
                          off the bar). So I went and got the board.
                          Still having severe probs in the gusts trying to get feet in the loops
                          and the board facing the right way. Kite control seems fine, in that I
                          can keep the kite at the top of the window in the centre, but my timing
                          sucks and I keep powering up slightly – enough to spin me round.
                          Eventually get up on board and off I go for all of 10ft. I come off and
                          in the usual submarine escapade manage to spin round. Kite still flying,
                          leash now beautifully wrapped round both legs. Controlling the kite gets
                          a bit trickier as I can’t get my feet down to get any leverage on the
                          bar. That’s when I get the full slam/glug/slam/glug experience. By the
                          time I sort myself out and get the leash off my legs I have gone
                          downwind further than I should have and there is a nasty 100’
                          cliff-thing on my left, about 100yds away. Brain says “keep going
                          downwind and get in the next bay”, which is only about another 100yds.
                          Kite is now sitting in the water a bit further back in the zone than I
                          would really like, bouncing up and down in “I’m gonna launch when you’re
                          not looking” mode. About ½ sec later, off we go again.
                          At this point I am very aware of how close the cliff face is.
                          Unfortunately, my board had managed to sail downwind right in front of
                          me and wedged absolutely perfectly across AND between all 4 lines (bet
                          you can’t do that!). Up goes the kite under full power and I can’t
                          depower it – the board jams the whole thing up solid. I am now well
                          clear of the water. Buggy training comes to the fore and haul back and
                          unhook letting the bar get torn out of my hands. Problem over? I think
                          not. Bar whips out and locks perfectly in full power flying position
                          courtesy of the board. I am now gaining altitude and very aware of the
                          cliffs. The leash (which I am now dangling from) is now forcing in a
                          gentle left turn – exactly what I don’t want. Impact in not very many
                          seconds should be absolutely parallel with the cliff. A few thoughts run
                          through my mind at this point: “lucky I’m wearing that new canoeing
                          helmet”, “pity it won’t make much of a difference”, “maybe I should have
                          sprung for an impact vest”, “boy this will hurt”, “wonder which hospital
                          is nearest”, “why isn’t the kite depowering like it should”, “would you
                          look at that board wedged perfectly across the lines”, “nice the way the
                          fading sun catches the kite”, etc. The leash is the only thing holding
                          me to the kite, so I casually (not!) undo the Velcro and plummet into
                          the water. Never have I been happier to hear the sound of ripping
                          velcro. Kite lands about a foot short of the nasty rocks. Swim in with
                          board and retrieve all the bits, mercifully undamaged. Then I went home
                          shaking my head.
                          Feel free to comment. I can hear John, Colin and Steve laughing from
                          here.
                          Methinks I need some more practice…

                          Iain Drummond
                          Programme Manager
                          Memex Technology Ltd
                          iain.drummond@...
                          013552 33804 - www.memex.com
                        • fishersfort@attglobal.net
                          ... otherwise. ... reach ... front and ... impossible ... This sounds backwards. You kill power by setting the knots to hold the nose lower and let the back
                          Message 12 of 19 , Nov 8, 2001
                            >1) I can't reach the trim loop whilst under way – urgently or
                            otherwise.
                            >Presumably I just need to shorten all of the leaders until I can
                            reach
                            >it. That provided some minutes of amusement for the onlookers.

                            >2) When fully depowered (trim right in and lines on long at
                            front and
                            >short at back knots) the kite is extremely eager (i.e. seems
                            impossible
                            >to actually prevent) to take off from the water.


                            This sounds backwards. You kill power by setting the knots to hold
                            the nose lower and let the back up.


                            >What's the easiest way
                            >of killing the whole thing controllably? I don't want to throw away
                            the
                            >bar `cos my lines always seem to get tangled. Flying to the edge of
                            the
                            >window is the obvious choice, but that assumes I'm not just
                            recovering
                            >from my last ditching which inevitably leaves the kite well in the
                            power
                            >zone (usually leaping into the sky just as I get my head above the
                            water
                            >again). Slam, glug, slam, glug, etc. You get the picture :-) Is this
                            >just because it's fully depowered, or my incompetence?


                            Kites don't have an eject button. Enjoy the thrashing. Hehehe.


                            >3) These board leash things, how long do people recon they
                            should be? My
                            >board is quite short, does this mean I can get away with less leash
                            and
                            >therefore less chance of the damn thing getting wrapped around my
                            legs?
                            >I'm not confident enough to contemplate binning the leash unless I'm
                            >wearing a pair of fins (but then again, see below...).


                            It will happen with all leashes. Hehehehe.


                            >4) Assuming I'm taking a course to my right, any comments on
                            which foot
                            I should put in the loops first?

                            >5) Do people tend to park things like BTs at the top and then
                            put their
                            board on,

                            YES

                            >or dump the kite, get in the board and then relaunch? NO

                            >Feel free to comment. I can hear John, Colin and Steve laughing from
                            >here.
                            >Methinks I need some more practice…


                            That was a great post! You made me laugh.

                            Dwight


                            Iain Drummond
                            Programme Manager
                            Memex Technology Ltd
                            iain.drummond@m...
                            013552 33804 - www.memex.com
                          • surfsup@ragingbull.com
                            ... the ... the ... recovering ... power ... water ... I m a beginner at this, but if you re looking for a way to get out of the kite completely, you should
                            Message 13 of 19 , Nov 8, 2001
                              >What's the easiest way
                              >of killing the whole thing controllably? I don't want to throw away
                              the
                              >bar `cos my lines always seem to get tangled. Flying to the edge of
                              the
                              >window is the obvious choice, but that assumes I'm not just
                              recovering
                              >from my last ditching which inevitably leaves the kite well in the
                              power
                              >zone (usually leaping into the sky just as I get my head above the
                              water
                              >again). Slam, glug, slam, glug, etc. You get the picture :-) Is this
                              >just because it's fully depowered, or my incompetence?

                              I'm a beginner at this, but if you're looking for a way to get out of
                              the kite completely, you should have some sort of system devised to
                              allow you to do this. I tend to think of this as the "eject button"
                              that another poster says doesn't exist. It's pretty close to that.
                              Mel has been instrumental in helping me set this safety-system up and
                              it didn't take very long - or much cash. Besides, how much is your
                              life worth thrashed against a 100' cliff? More than some extra rope
                              and shackles...

                              Here's my files that I posted in the file folder to give you an idea
                              of the system:

                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kitesurf/files/surfsup/

                              Not only is the system functional, but it makes me feel a lot better
                              about impending danger, or danger you don't see coming...

                              V
                            • deejay@zeta.org.au
                              G Day Iain, I suggest taking a lesson or two with a qualified instructor. The instructor will be able to sort out your rig properly, tune it right and then
                              Message 14 of 19 , Nov 8, 2001
                                G'Day Iain,

                                I suggest taking a lesson or two with a qualified instructor. The
                                instructor will be able to sort out your rig properly, tune it right
                                and then give you some pointers on how to correct the mistakes you
                                are making.

                                You will be heartened by the knowledge that we have all been through
                                similar difficulties when learning. A single lesson can make the
                                world of difference with the right instructor.

                                Have fun and fly safe,

                                Darren Marshall
                                Australian Kiteboarding School
                                www.australiankiteboardingschool.com



                                --- In kitesurf@y..., "Iain Drummond" <iain.drummond@m...> wrote:
                                > Tried a 7.wibble Airblast, delaminating quicker than I can peel
                                onions,
                                > and an F-One TT of some sort (180ish?) a few months ago and decided
                                it
                                > seemed like fun. Not much practice later (barely managed to get on
                                top
                                > of the board in some light winds) I shelled out for a BT 9.4 and a
                                BIC
                                > 175. I've been buggying for about and fly really bad-tempered 4-
                                liners
                                > as well as paragliders, so this seemed like a reasonable choice.
                                > Firstly, a few words about the kit…
                                > I know what kites are supposed to look like and boy was I impressed
                                with
                                > the BT. Excellent build quality, instruction book(?), bar, lines,
                                bag
                                > and the new bladders (so I've been reassured). It flies extremely
                                well
                                > and I found the chicken loop superb, giving about 50-60% depower
                                > (although I didn't exactly measure it). Oh, and I bought a board
                                bag and
                                > leash as well – again, excellent quality, etc, etc. Absolutely no
                                > complaints about Cabrinha gear that I can't pin down to my own
                                > incompetence.
                                > The board looks gorgeous. Seems a shame to go out and trash it.
                                Can't
                                > say yet whether it's any good (on account of me being really crap),
                                but
                                > the quality is high. Cute little set of fins, loop bindings
                                designed for
                                > the tropics (lots of padding) rather than Scottish water in winter
                                > (heating elements), really nice fold-over stainless bolts. Didn't
                                get an
                                > Allen key, which was a bit of a nuisance, but the graphics are cute
                                and
                                > it looks the part.
                                > I'm not saying that this stuff is better than anything else, just
                                that I
                                > don't think I've been shafted, particularly on the quality issue
                                that
                                > seems to be a rather hot topic at the moment. Believe me, I would be
                                > moaning along with the rest of you if I thought otherwise.
                                > Here are a few simple questions for you gurus out there and a
                                vaguely
                                > amusing tale of me trying to kill myself after a series of
                                unfortunate
                                > circumstances.
                                >
                                > 1) I can't reach the trim loop whilst under way – urgently or
                                otherwise.
                                > Presumably I just need to shorten all of the leaders until I can
                                reach
                                > it. That provided some minutes of amusement for the onlookers.
                                >
                                > 2) When fully depowered (trim right in and lines on long at
                                front and
                                > short at back knots) the kite is extremely eager (i.e. seems
                                impossible
                                > to actually prevent) to take off from the water. What's the easiest
                                way
                                > of killing the whole thing controllably? I don't want to throw away
                                the
                                > bar `cos my lines always seem to get tangled. Flying to the edge of
                                the
                                > window is the obvious choice, but that assumes I'm not just
                                recovering
                                > from my last ditching which inevitably leaves the kite well in the
                                power
                                > zone (usually leaping into the sky just as I get my head above the
                                water
                                > again). Slam, glug, slam, glug, etc. You get the picture :-) Is this
                                > just because it's fully depowered, or my incompetence?
                                >
                                > 3) These board leash things, how long do people recon they
                                should be? My
                                > board is quite short, does this mean I can get away with less leash
                                and
                                > therefore less chance of the damn thing getting wrapped around my
                                legs?
                                > I'm not confident enough to contemplate binning the leash unless I'm
                                > wearing a pair of fins (but then again, see below...).
                                >
                                > 4) Assuming I'm taking a course to my right, any comments on
                                which foot
                                > I should put in the loops first?
                                >
                                > 5) Do people tend to park things like BTs at the top and then
                                put their
                                > board on, or dump the kite, get in the board and then relaunch?
                                >
                                > So you probably get the idea that I'm a bit incompetent, but eager
                                to
                                > learn. Learn I did, and hopefully someone else can learn the easy
                                way
                                > too.
                                >
                                > The dodgy scenario…
                                >
                                > Wind gusting to 22/23mph from 18 (measured on trusty paragliding
                                wind
                                > meter). Rigged BT fully depowered then spent about 2hrs body
                                dragging,
                                > including almost managing to get upwind. VERY IMPRESSED with kite.
                                I'm
                                > using the chicken loop (first thing I did was take the full-power
                                one
                                > off the bar). So I went and got the board.
                                > Still having severe probs in the gusts trying to get feet in the
                                loops
                                > and the board facing the right way. Kite control seems fine, in
                                that I
                                > can keep the kite at the top of the window in the centre, but my
                                timing
                                > sucks and I keep powering up slightly – enough to spin me round.
                                > Eventually get up on board and off I go for all of 10ft. I come off
                                and
                                > in the usual submarine escapade manage to spin round. Kite still
                                flying,
                                > leash now beautifully wrapped round both legs. Controlling the kite
                                gets
                                > a bit trickier as I can't get my feet down to get any leverage on
                                the
                                > bar. That's when I get the full slam/glug/slam/glug experience. By
                                the
                                > time I sort myself out and get the leash off my legs I have gone
                                > downwind further than I should have and there is a nasty 100'
                                > cliff-thing on my left, about 100yds away. Brain says "keep going
                                > downwind and get in the next bay", which is only about another
                                100yds.
                                > Kite is now sitting in the water a bit further back in the zone
                                than I
                                > would really like, bouncing up and down in "I'm gonna launch when
                                you're
                                > not looking" mode. About ½ sec later, off we go again.
                                > At this point I am very aware of how close the cliff face is.
                                > Unfortunately, my board had managed to sail downwind right in front
                                of
                                > me and wedged absolutely perfectly across AND between all 4 lines
                                (bet
                                > you can't do that!). Up goes the kite under full power and I can't
                                > depower it – the board jams the whole thing up solid. I am now well
                                > clear of the water. Buggy training comes to the fore and haul back
                                and
                                > unhook letting the bar get torn out of my hands. Problem over? I
                                think
                                > not. Bar whips out and locks perfectly in full power flying position
                                > courtesy of the board. I am now gaining altitude and very aware of
                                the
                                > cliffs. The leash (which I am now dangling from) is now forcing in a
                                > gentle left turn – exactly what I don't want. Impact in not very
                                many
                                > seconds should be absolutely parallel with the cliff. A few
                                thoughts run
                                > through my mind at this point: "lucky I'm wearing that new canoeing
                                > helmet", "pity it won't make much of a difference", "maybe I should
                                have
                                > sprung for an impact vest", "boy this will hurt", "wonder which
                                hospital
                                > is nearest", "why isn't the kite depowering like it should", "would
                                you
                                > look at that board wedged perfectly across the lines", "nice the
                                way the
                                > fading sun catches the kite", etc. The leash is the only thing
                                holding
                                > me to the kite, so I casually (not!) undo the Velcro and plummet
                                into
                                > the water. Never have I been happier to hear the sound of ripping
                                > velcro. Kite lands about a foot short of the nasty rocks. Swim in
                                with
                                > board and retrieve all the bits, mercifully undamaged. Then I went
                                home
                                > shaking my head.
                                > Feel free to comment. I can hear John, Colin and Steve laughing from
                                > here.
                                > Methinks I need some more practice…
                                >
                                > Iain Drummond
                                > Programme Manager
                                > Memex Technology Ltd
                                > iain.drummond@m...
                                > 013552 33804 - www.memex.com
                              • iclimbtrees@yahoo.com
                                TAKE SOME LESSONS BEFORE YOU KILL YOURSELF/SOMEONE!!!!!! ... onions, ... it ... top ... BIC ... liners ... with ... bag ... well ... bag and ... Can t ... but
                                Message 15 of 19 , Nov 8, 2001
                                  TAKE SOME LESSONS BEFORE YOU KILL YOURSELF/SOMEONE!!!!!!

                                  --- In kitesurf@y..., "Iain Drummond" <iain.drummond@m...> wrote:
                                  > Tried a 7.wibble Airblast, delaminating quicker than I can peel
                                  onions,
                                  > and an F-One TT of some sort (180ish?) a few months ago and decided
                                  it
                                  > seemed like fun. Not much practice later (barely managed to get on
                                  top
                                  > of the board in some light winds) I shelled out for a BT 9.4 and a
                                  BIC
                                  > 175. I've been buggying for about and fly really bad-tempered 4-
                                  liners
                                  > as well as paragliders, so this seemed like a reasonable choice.
                                  > Firstly, a few words about the kit…
                                  > I know what kites are supposed to look like and boy was I impressed
                                  with
                                  > the BT. Excellent build quality, instruction book(?), bar, lines,
                                  bag
                                  > and the new bladders (so I've been reassured). It flies extremely
                                  well
                                  > and I found the chicken loop superb, giving about 50-60% depower
                                  > (although I didn't exactly measure it). Oh, and I bought a board
                                  bag and
                                  > leash as well – again, excellent quality, etc, etc. Absolutely no
                                  > complaints about Cabrinha gear that I can't pin down to my own
                                  > incompetence.
                                  > The board looks gorgeous. Seems a shame to go out and trash it.
                                  Can't
                                  > say yet whether it's any good (on account of me being really crap),
                                  but
                                  > the quality is high. Cute little set of fins, loop bindings
                                  designed for
                                  > the tropics (lots of padding) rather than Scottish water in winter
                                  > (heating elements), really nice fold-over stainless bolts. Didn't
                                  get an
                                  > Allen key, which was a bit of a nuisance, but the graphics are cute
                                  and
                                  > it looks the part.
                                  > I'm not saying that this stuff is better than anything else, just
                                  that I
                                  > don't think I've been shafted, particularly on the quality issue
                                  that
                                  > seems to be a rather hot topic at the moment. Believe me, I would be
                                  > moaning along with the rest of you if I thought otherwise.
                                  > Here are a few simple questions for you gurus out there and a
                                  vaguely
                                  > amusing tale of me trying to kill myself after a series of
                                  unfortunate
                                  > circumstances.
                                  >
                                  > 1) I can't reach the trim loop whilst under way – urgently or
                                  otherwise.
                                  > Presumably I just need to shorten all of the leaders until I can
                                  reach
                                  > it. That provided some minutes of amusement for the onlookers.
                                  >
                                  > 2) When fully depowered (trim right in and lines on long at
                                  front and
                                  > short at back knots) the kite is extremely eager (i.e. seems
                                  impossible
                                  > to actually prevent) to take off from the water. What's the easiest
                                  way
                                  > of killing the whole thing controllably? I don't want to throw away
                                  the
                                  > bar `cos my lines always seem to get tangled. Flying to the edge of
                                  the
                                  > window is the obvious choice, but that assumes I'm not just
                                  recovering
                                  > from my last ditching which inevitably leaves the kite well in the
                                  power
                                  > zone (usually leaping into the sky just as I get my head above the
                                  water
                                  > again). Slam, glug, slam, glug, etc. You get the picture :-) Is this
                                  > just because it's fully depowered, or my incompetence?
                                  >
                                  > 3) These board leash things, how long do people recon they
                                  should be? My
                                  > board is quite short, does this mean I can get away with less leash
                                  and
                                  > therefore less chance of the damn thing getting wrapped around my
                                  legs?
                                  > I'm not confident enough to contemplate binning the leash unless I'm
                                  > wearing a pair of fins (but then again, see below...).
                                  >
                                  > 4) Assuming I'm taking a course to my right, any comments on
                                  which foot
                                  > I should put in the loops first?
                                  >
                                  > 5) Do people tend to park things like BTs at the top and then
                                  put their
                                  > board on, or dump the kite, get in the board and then relaunch?
                                  >
                                  > So you probably get the idea that I'm a bit incompetent, but eager
                                  to
                                  > learn. Learn I did, and hopefully someone else can learn the easy
                                  way
                                  > too.
                                  >
                                  > The dodgy scenario…
                                  >
                                  > Wind gusting to 22/23mph from 18 (measured on trusty paragliding
                                  wind
                                  > meter). Rigged BT fully depowered then spent about 2hrs body
                                  dragging,
                                  > including almost managing to get upwind. VERY IMPRESSED with kite.
                                  I'm
                                  > using the chicken loop (first thing I did was take the full-power
                                  one
                                  > off the bar). So I went and got the board.
                                  > Still having severe probs in the gusts trying to get feet in the
                                  loops
                                  > and the board facing the right way. Kite control seems fine, in
                                  that I
                                  > can keep the kite at the top of the window in the centre, but my
                                  timing
                                  > sucks and I keep powering up slightly – enough to spin me round.
                                  > Eventually get up on board and off I go for all of 10ft. I come off
                                  and
                                  > in the usual submarine escapade manage to spin round. Kite still
                                  flying,
                                  > leash now beautifully wrapped round both legs. Controlling the kite
                                  gets
                                  > a bit trickier as I can't get my feet down to get any leverage on
                                  the
                                  > bar. That's when I get the full slam/glug/slam/glug experience. By
                                  the
                                  > time I sort myself out and get the leash off my legs I have gone
                                  > downwind further than I should have and there is a nasty 100'
                                  > cliff-thing on my left, about 100yds away. Brain says "keep going
                                  > downwind and get in the next bay", which is only about another
                                  100yds.
                                  > Kite is now sitting in the water a bit further back in the zone
                                  than I
                                  > would really like, bouncing up and down in "I'm gonna launch when
                                  you're
                                  > not looking" mode. About ½ sec later, off we go again.
                                  > At this point I am very aware of how close the cliff face is.
                                  > Unfortunately, my board had managed to sail downwind right in front
                                  of
                                  > me and wedged absolutely perfectly across AND between all 4 lines
                                  (bet
                                  > you can't do that!). Up goes the kite under full power and I can't
                                  > depower it – the board jams the whole thing up solid. I am now well
                                  > clear of the water. Buggy training comes to the fore and haul back
                                  and
                                  > unhook letting the bar get torn out of my hands. Problem over? I
                                  think
                                  > not. Bar whips out and locks perfectly in full power flying position
                                  > courtesy of the board. I am now gaining altitude and very aware of
                                  the
                                  > cliffs. The leash (which I am now dangling from) is now forcing in a
                                  > gentle left turn – exactly what I don't want. Impact in not very
                                  many
                                  > seconds should be absolutely parallel with the cliff. A few
                                  thoughts run
                                  > through my mind at this point: "lucky I'm wearing that new canoeing
                                  > helmet", "pity it won't make much of a difference", "maybe I should
                                  have
                                  > sprung for an impact vest", "boy this will hurt", "wonder which
                                  hospital
                                  > is nearest", "why isn't the kite depowering like it should", "would
                                  you
                                  > look at that board wedged perfectly across the lines", "nice the
                                  way the
                                  > fading sun catches the kite", etc. The leash is the only thing
                                  holding
                                  > me to the kite, so I casually (not!) undo the Velcro and plummet
                                  into
                                  > the water. Never have I been happier to hear the sound of ripping
                                  > velcro. Kite lands about a foot short of the nasty rocks. Swim in
                                  with
                                  > board and retrieve all the bits, mercifully undamaged. Then I went
                                  home
                                  > shaking my head.
                                  > Feel free to comment. I can hear John, Colin and Steve laughing from
                                  > here.
                                  > Methinks I need some more practice…
                                  >
                                  > Iain Drummond
                                  > Programme Manager
                                  > Memex Technology Ltd
                                  > iain.drummond@m...
                                  > 013552 33804 - www.memex.com
                                • Iain Drummond
                                  The concensus seems to be split between those that sympathise and those that think I m a liability. Nothing new there! Thanks to all those who posted their
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Nov 9, 2001
                                    The concensus seems to be split between those that sympathise and those
                                    that think I'm a liability.

                                    Nothing new there!

                                    Thanks to all those who posted their advice, all of which looks sane and
                                    reasonable.

                                    Anyone know of any kitesurfing instructors in Scotland?
                                  • ichiman1@yahoo.com
                                    Sounds like an average day of kitesurfing to me... Is there any other way to kitesurf??
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Dec 1, 2001
                                      Sounds like an average day of kitesurfing to me...
                                      Is there any other way to kitesurf??
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