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Re: Reel-leash idea - almost leashless

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  • c_batalha@clix.pt
    ... Would you like the idea of having that thinner leash around your neck in a big crash??? The kite pulling in one direction and the board been dragged behind
    Message 1 of 19 , Nov 1, 2001
      > Has anyone ever considered making a a really long reel leash from
      > much thinner webbing or line ( maybe kite line ).

      Would you like the idea of having that thinner leash around your neck
      in a big crash??? The kite pulling in one direction and the board
      been dragged behind you!!!

      I WOULDN'T LIKE, and I'm sure you neither!!

      Good winds
      Carlos
    • thorpes@arklogic.com
      ... neck ... That could just as easily happen with a kiteline ( and already has in at least one case I heard of! ) But I don t too much like the idea of being
      Message 2 of 19 , Nov 1, 2001
        --- In kitesurf@y..., c_batalha@c... wrote:
        > > Has anyone ever considered making a a really long reel leash from
        > > much thinner webbing or line ( maybe kite line ).
        >
        > Would you like the idea of having that thinner leash around your
        neck
        > in a big crash??? The kite pulling in one direction and the board
        > been dragged behind you!!!
        >
        > I WOULDN'T LIKE, and I'm sure you neither!!

        That could just as easily happen with a kiteline ( and already has in
        at least one case I heard of! )
        But I don't too much like the idea of being knocked unconscious or
        having my neck or back broken by the sling-shot action of a sharped-
        edged twintip, half a mile offshore, and I'm sure you and many others
        don't like the idea either, but many of us ride with leashes that can
        and have caused serious injuries. And many refuse to wear helmets.
        You choose your risk - I'll choose mine.

        Actually my next crazy idea involves a board retreival method with no
        risk of sling-shot, no retractible garrote attaching you to the board
        and--if it works--a 92.3% chance of board retreival in all conditions
        except thick kelp. ;-)


        Steve T.
      • Rainer Leuschke
        ... What is it, what is it? A spring loaded mini sail that pops up when you pop off to sail the board downwind faster? 8P R!
        Message 3 of 19 , Nov 1, 2001
          On Thu, 1 Nov 2001 thorpes@... wrote:
          > Actually my next crazy idea involves a board retreival method with no
          > risk of sling-shot, no retractible garrote attaching you to the board
          > and--if it works--a 92.3% chance of board retreival in all conditions
          > except thick kelp. ;-)

          What is it, what is it? A spring loaded mini sail that pops up when you
          pop off to sail the board downwind faster? 8P

          R!
        • thorpes@arklogic.com
          ... with no ... board ... conditions ... you ... Nope - although that is where my idea started. Obviously that would only have a 43.7% of board retreival
          Message 4 of 19 , Nov 1, 2001
            --- In kitesurf@y..., Rainer Leuschke <rainer@u...> wrote:
            >
            > On Thu, 1 Nov 2001 thorpes@a... wrote:
            > > Actually my next crazy idea involves a board retreival method
            with no
            > > risk of sling-shot, no retractible garrote attaching you to the
            board
            > > and--if it works--a 92.3% chance of board retreival in all
            conditions
            > > except thick kelp. ;-)
            >
            > What is it, what is it? A spring loaded mini sail that pops up when
            you
            > pop off to sail the board downwind faster? 8P
            >
            > R!

            Nope - although that is where my idea started. Obviously that would
            only have a 43.7% of board retreival though - there would be a 50%
            chance of it landing upsidedown renering the spring loaded sail
            useless then a further 6.3% chance of failure due to other
            circumstances. My new idea would work (theoretically) whichever way
            up the board landed ;-)

            Keep guessing - I'll test it out next time I'm on the water.

            Steve T.
          • Rainer Leuschke
            ... Yeah, that s what I figured too, unless you have a sail on either side and only pop up the top one. Tricky to implement 8) ... How bout a baloon/bladder
            Message 5 of 19 , Nov 1, 2001
              On Thu, 1 Nov 2001 thorpes@... wrote:
              > only have a 43.7% of board retreival though - there would be a 50%

              Yeah, that's what I figured too, unless you have a sail on either side and
              only pop up the top one. Tricky to implement 8)

              > Keep guessing - I'll test it out next time I'm on the water.

              How 'bout a baloon/bladder inflating when you eject? If it lands upside
              down the bladder could flip it over. Not sure how to
              reset the apparatus though. Getting closer?

              R!
            • thorpes@arklogic.com
              ... side and ... upside ... Much closer - in fact you are too close - try to get a little farther away ;-) Steve T.
              Message 6 of 19 , Nov 1, 2001
                --- In kitesurf@y..., Rainer Leuschke <rainer@u...> wrote:
                >
                > On Thu, 1 Nov 2001 thorpes@a... wrote:
                > > only have a 43.7% of board retreival though - there would be a 50%
                >
                > Yeah, that's what I figured too, unless you have a sail on either
                side and
                > only pop up the top one. Tricky to implement 8)
                >
                > > Keep guessing - I'll test it out next time I'm on the water.
                >
                > How 'bout a baloon/bladder inflating when you eject? If it lands
                upside
                > down the bladder could flip it over. Not sure how to
                > reset the apparatus though. Getting closer?
                >
                > R!

                Much closer - in fact you are "too close" - try to get a
                little "farther away" ;-)

                Steve T.
              • thorpes@arklogic.com
                ... Okay - here s the idea ... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kitesurf/files/TinMan/LeashlessBoard.jpg with the right materials this shuold be able to compress
                Message 7 of 19 , Nov 1, 2001
                  --- In kitesurf@y..., Rainer Leuschke <rainer@u...> wrote:

                  > How 'bout a baloon/bladder inflating when you eject?...

                  > ... Getting closer?


                  Okay - here's the idea ...

                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kitesurf/files/TinMan/LeashlessBoard.jpg

                  with the right materials this shuold be able to compress into a
                  package no larger than a reel leash - an elastic-necked pouch worn
                  neck down, on the ankle.

                  So waddaya think?
                  How will this one kill me. Carlos? ;-)

                  Steve T.
                • c_batalha@clix.pt
                  I must say that this system is, at least, original!!! Just to know... How would you retrieve the system again? Carlos PS: Altought this could work fine, I
                  Message 8 of 19 , Nov 1, 2001
                    I must say that this system is, at least, original!!!

                    Just to know... How would you retrieve the system again?

                    Carlos
                    PS: Altought this could work fine, I prefer my "old" surfboard leash
                    and my helmet when I ride my TT!!

                    PS2: Just to know... I rarely have really bad crashs in my TT, cause
                    I usually ride wakeboards and just use my TT in very light winds!!


                    --- In kitesurf@y..., thorpes@a... wrote:
                    > --- In kitesurf@y..., Rainer Leuschke <rainer@u...> wrote:
                    >
                    > > How 'bout a baloon/bladder inflating when you eject?...
                    >
                    > > ... Getting closer?
                    >
                    >
                    > Okay - here's the idea ...
                    >
                    >
                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kitesurf/files/TinMan/LeashlessBoard.jpg
                    >
                    > with the right materials this shuold be able to compress into a
                    > package no larger than a reel leash - an elastic-necked pouch worn
                    > neck down, on the ankle.
                    >
                    > So waddaya think?
                    > How will this one kill me. Carlos? ;-)
                    >
                    > Steve T.
                  • thorpes@arklogic.com
                    ... I figured you just sqish it up into a ball and stuff it back in the pouch (which is anchored to your leg or harness) - ready to go again! ... Hey - I m
                    Message 9 of 19 , Nov 1, 2001
                      --- In kitesurf@y..., c_batalha@c... wrote:
                      > I must say that this system is, at least, original!!!
                      >
                      > Just to know... How would you retrieve the system again?

                      I figured you just sqish it up into a ball and stuff it back in the
                      pouch (which is anchored to your leg or harness) - ready to go again!


                      > Carlos
                      > PS: Altought this could work fine, I prefer my "old"
                      > surfboard leash and my helmet when I ride my TT!!

                      Hey - I'm happy with my reel-leash + Gath on my LWD 169
                      but there seemed to be a lot of people who would like to
                      go leashless except for the possibility of loosing a board.

                      PS - even if this idea does not work to retrieve the board
                      something similar could vastly improve the chances of
                      seeing a lost board in the ocean.


                      Steve T.
                    • janwcoffey@yahoo.com
                      I m back from Maui, had a greate time. I have the solution. Weare a really short leash, and use a wakeboard. After only having the wakeboard for the whole
                      Message 10 of 19 , Nov 1, 2001
                        I'm back from Maui, had a greate time.

                        I have the solution. Weare a really short leash, and use a wakeboard.

                        After only having the wakeboard for the whole week, I don't
                        see any reason to ride my twin, just put up a bigger kite.

                        If my girl wasn't interested in learning I would sell the twin.

                        Jan

                        --- In kitesurf@y..., thorpes@a... wrote:
                        > --- In kitesurf@y..., c_batalha@c... wrote:
                        > > I must say that this system is, at least, original!!!
                        > >
                        > > Just to know... How would you retrieve the system again?
                        >
                        > I figured you just sqish it up into a ball and stuff it back in the
                        > pouch (which is anchored to your leg or harness) - ready to go
                        again!
                        >
                        >
                        > > Carlos
                        > > PS: Altought this could work fine, I prefer my "old"
                        > > surfboard leash and my helmet when I ride my TT!!
                        >
                        > Hey - I'm happy with my reel-leash + Gath on my LWD 169
                        > but there seemed to be a lot of people who would like to
                        > go leashless except for the possibility of loosing a board.
                        >
                        > PS - even if this idea does not work to retrieve the board
                        > something similar could vastly improve the chances of
                        > seeing a lost board in the ocean.
                        >
                        >
                        > Steve T.
                      • c_batalha@clix.pt
                        YAHHHH!!! Someone that shares my opinion!!! You can always use a wakeboard... just use more kite!!! And, once my girl doesn t wanna try this sport, I think
                        Message 11 of 19 , Nov 1, 2001
                          YAHHHH!!!
                          Someone that shares my opinion!!! You can always use a wakeboard...
                          just use more kite!!!

                          And, once my girl doesn't wanna try this sport, I think I'll sell my
                          brunotti mirror 180!

                          Carlos



                          --- In kitesurf@y..., janwcoffey@y... wrote:
                          >
                          > I'm back from Maui, had a greate time.
                          >
                          > I have the solution. Weare a really short leash, and use a
                          wakeboard.
                          >
                          > After only having the wakeboard for the whole week, I don't
                          > see any reason to ride my twin, just put up a bigger kite.
                          >
                          > If my girl wasn't interested in learning I would sell the twin.
                          >
                          > Jan
                          >
                          > --- In kitesurf@y..., thorpes@a... wrote:
                          > > --- In kitesurf@y..., c_batalha@c... wrote:
                          > > > I must say that this system is, at least, original!!!
                          > > >
                          > > > Just to know... How would you retrieve the system again?
                          > >
                          > > I figured you just sqish it up into a ball and stuff it back in
                          the
                          > > pouch (which is anchored to your leg or harness) - ready to go
                          > again!
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > > Carlos
                          > > > PS: Altought this could work fine, I prefer my "old"
                          > > > surfboard leash and my helmet when I ride my TT!!
                          > >
                          > > Hey - I'm happy with my reel-leash + Gath on my LWD 169
                          > > but there seemed to be a lot of people who would like to
                          > > go leashless except for the possibility of loosing a board.
                          > >
                          > > PS - even if this idea does not work to retrieve the board
                          > > something similar could vastly improve the chances of
                          > > seeing a lost board in the ocean.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Steve T.
                        • Iain Drummond
                          Tried a 7.wibble Airblast, delaminating quicker than I can peel onions, and an F-One TT of some sort (180ish?) a few months ago and decided it seemed like fun.
                          Message 12 of 19 , Nov 8, 2001
                            Tried a 7.wibble Airblast, delaminating quicker than I can peel onions,
                            and an F-One TT of some sort (180ish?) a few months ago and decided it
                            seemed like fun. Not much practice later (barely managed to get on top
                            of the board in some light winds) I shelled out for a BT 9.4 and a BIC
                            175. I’ve been buggying for about and fly really bad-tempered 4-liners
                            as well as paragliders, so this seemed like a reasonable choice.
                            Firstly, a few words about the kit…
                            I know what kites are supposed to look like and boy was I impressed with
                            the BT. Excellent build quality, instruction book(?), bar, lines, bag
                            and the new bladders (so I’ve been reassured). It flies extremely well
                            and I found the chicken loop superb, giving about 50-60% depower
                            (although I didn’t exactly measure it). Oh, and I bought a board bag and
                            leash as well – again, excellent quality, etc, etc. Absolutely no
                            complaints about Cabrinha gear that I can’t pin down to my own
                            incompetence.
                            The board looks gorgeous. Seems a shame to go out and trash it. Can’t
                            say yet whether it’s any good (on account of me being really crap), but
                            the quality is high. Cute little set of fins, loop bindings designed for
                            the tropics (lots of padding) rather than Scottish water in winter
                            (heating elements), really nice fold-over stainless bolts. Didn’t get an
                            Allen key, which was a bit of a nuisance, but the graphics are cute and
                            it looks the part.
                            I’m not saying that this stuff is better than anything else, just that I
                            don’t think I’ve been shafted, particularly on the quality issue that
                            seems to be a rather hot topic at the moment. Believe me, I would be
                            moaning along with the rest of you if I thought otherwise.
                            Here are a few simple questions for you gurus out there and a vaguely
                            amusing tale of me trying to kill myself after a series of unfortunate
                            circumstances.

                            1) I can’t reach the trim loop whilst under way – urgently or otherwise.
                            Presumably I just need to shorten all of the leaders until I can reach
                            it. That provided some minutes of amusement for the onlookers.

                            2) When fully depowered (trim right in and lines on long at front and
                            short at back knots) the kite is extremely eager (i.e. seems impossible
                            to actually prevent) to take off from the water. What’s the easiest way
                            of killing the whole thing controllably? I don’t want to throw away the
                            bar ‘cos my lines always seem to get tangled. Flying to the edge of the
                            window is the obvious choice, but that assumes I’m not just recovering
                            from my last ditching which inevitably leaves the kite well in the power
                            zone (usually leaping into the sky just as I get my head above the water
                            again). Slam, glug, slam, glug, etc. You get the picture :-) Is this
                            just because it’s fully depowered, or my incompetence?

                            3) These board leash things, how long do people recon they should be? My
                            board is quite short, does this mean I can get away with less leash and
                            therefore less chance of the damn thing getting wrapped around my legs?
                            I'm not confident enough to contemplate binning the leash unless I'm
                            wearing a pair of fins (but then again, see below...).

                            4) Assuming I’m taking a course to my right, any comments on which foot
                            I should put in the loops first?

                            5) Do people tend to park things like BTs at the top and then put their
                            board on, or dump the kite, get in the board and then relaunch?

                            So you probably get the idea that I’m a bit incompetent, but eager to
                            learn. Learn I did, and hopefully someone else can learn the easy way
                            too.

                            The dodgy scenario…

                            Wind gusting to 22/23mph from 18 (measured on trusty paragliding wind
                            meter). Rigged BT fully depowered then spent about 2hrs body dragging,
                            including almost managing to get upwind. VERY IMPRESSED with kite. I’m
                            using the chicken loop (first thing I did was take the full-power one
                            off the bar). So I went and got the board.
                            Still having severe probs in the gusts trying to get feet in the loops
                            and the board facing the right way. Kite control seems fine, in that I
                            can keep the kite at the top of the window in the centre, but my timing
                            sucks and I keep powering up slightly – enough to spin me round.
                            Eventually get up on board and off I go for all of 10ft. I come off and
                            in the usual submarine escapade manage to spin round. Kite still flying,
                            leash now beautifully wrapped round both legs. Controlling the kite gets
                            a bit trickier as I can’t get my feet down to get any leverage on the
                            bar. That’s when I get the full slam/glug/slam/glug experience. By the
                            time I sort myself out and get the leash off my legs I have gone
                            downwind further than I should have and there is a nasty 100’
                            cliff-thing on my left, about 100yds away. Brain says “keep going
                            downwind and get in the next bay”, which is only about another 100yds.
                            Kite is now sitting in the water a bit further back in the zone than I
                            would really like, bouncing up and down in “I’m gonna launch when you’re
                            not looking” mode. About ½ sec later, off we go again.
                            At this point I am very aware of how close the cliff face is.
                            Unfortunately, my board had managed to sail downwind right in front of
                            me and wedged absolutely perfectly across AND between all 4 lines (bet
                            you can’t do that!). Up goes the kite under full power and I can’t
                            depower it – the board jams the whole thing up solid. I am now well
                            clear of the water. Buggy training comes to the fore and haul back and
                            unhook letting the bar get torn out of my hands. Problem over? I think
                            not. Bar whips out and locks perfectly in full power flying position
                            courtesy of the board. I am now gaining altitude and very aware of the
                            cliffs. The leash (which I am now dangling from) is now forcing in a
                            gentle left turn – exactly what I don’t want. Impact in not very many
                            seconds should be absolutely parallel with the cliff. A few thoughts run
                            through my mind at this point: “lucky I’m wearing that new canoeing
                            helmet”, “pity it won’t make much of a difference”, “maybe I should have
                            sprung for an impact vest”, “boy this will hurt”, “wonder which hospital
                            is nearest”, “why isn’t the kite depowering like it should”, “would you
                            look at that board wedged perfectly across the lines”, “nice the way the
                            fading sun catches the kite”, etc. The leash is the only thing holding
                            me to the kite, so I casually (not!) undo the Velcro and plummet into
                            the water. Never have I been happier to hear the sound of ripping
                            velcro. Kite lands about a foot short of the nasty rocks. Swim in with
                            board and retrieve all the bits, mercifully undamaged. Then I went home
                            shaking my head.
                            Feel free to comment. I can hear John, Colin and Steve laughing from
                            here.
                            Methinks I need some more practice…

                            Iain Drummond
                            Programme Manager
                            Memex Technology Ltd
                            iain.drummond@...
                            013552 33804 - www.memex.com
                          • fishersfort@attglobal.net
                            ... otherwise. ... reach ... front and ... impossible ... This sounds backwards. You kill power by setting the knots to hold the nose lower and let the back
                            Message 13 of 19 , Nov 8, 2001
                              >1) I can't reach the trim loop whilst under way – urgently or
                              otherwise.
                              >Presumably I just need to shorten all of the leaders until I can
                              reach
                              >it. That provided some minutes of amusement for the onlookers.

                              >2) When fully depowered (trim right in and lines on long at
                              front and
                              >short at back knots) the kite is extremely eager (i.e. seems
                              impossible
                              >to actually prevent) to take off from the water.


                              This sounds backwards. You kill power by setting the knots to hold
                              the nose lower and let the back up.


                              >What's the easiest way
                              >of killing the whole thing controllably? I don't want to throw away
                              the
                              >bar `cos my lines always seem to get tangled. Flying to the edge of
                              the
                              >window is the obvious choice, but that assumes I'm not just
                              recovering
                              >from my last ditching which inevitably leaves the kite well in the
                              power
                              >zone (usually leaping into the sky just as I get my head above the
                              water
                              >again). Slam, glug, slam, glug, etc. You get the picture :-) Is this
                              >just because it's fully depowered, or my incompetence?


                              Kites don't have an eject button. Enjoy the thrashing. Hehehe.


                              >3) These board leash things, how long do people recon they
                              should be? My
                              >board is quite short, does this mean I can get away with less leash
                              and
                              >therefore less chance of the damn thing getting wrapped around my
                              legs?
                              >I'm not confident enough to contemplate binning the leash unless I'm
                              >wearing a pair of fins (but then again, see below...).


                              It will happen with all leashes. Hehehehe.


                              >4) Assuming I'm taking a course to my right, any comments on
                              which foot
                              I should put in the loops first?

                              >5) Do people tend to park things like BTs at the top and then
                              put their
                              board on,

                              YES

                              >or dump the kite, get in the board and then relaunch? NO

                              >Feel free to comment. I can hear John, Colin and Steve laughing from
                              >here.
                              >Methinks I need some more practice…


                              That was a great post! You made me laugh.

                              Dwight


                              Iain Drummond
                              Programme Manager
                              Memex Technology Ltd
                              iain.drummond@m...
                              013552 33804 - www.memex.com
                            • surfsup@ragingbull.com
                              ... the ... the ... recovering ... power ... water ... I m a beginner at this, but if you re looking for a way to get out of the kite completely, you should
                              Message 14 of 19 , Nov 8, 2001
                                >What's the easiest way
                                >of killing the whole thing controllably? I don't want to throw away
                                the
                                >bar `cos my lines always seem to get tangled. Flying to the edge of
                                the
                                >window is the obvious choice, but that assumes I'm not just
                                recovering
                                >from my last ditching which inevitably leaves the kite well in the
                                power
                                >zone (usually leaping into the sky just as I get my head above the
                                water
                                >again). Slam, glug, slam, glug, etc. You get the picture :-) Is this
                                >just because it's fully depowered, or my incompetence?

                                I'm a beginner at this, but if you're looking for a way to get out of
                                the kite completely, you should have some sort of system devised to
                                allow you to do this. I tend to think of this as the "eject button"
                                that another poster says doesn't exist. It's pretty close to that.
                                Mel has been instrumental in helping me set this safety-system up and
                                it didn't take very long - or much cash. Besides, how much is your
                                life worth thrashed against a 100' cliff? More than some extra rope
                                and shackles...

                                Here's my files that I posted in the file folder to give you an idea
                                of the system:

                                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kitesurf/files/surfsup/

                                Not only is the system functional, but it makes me feel a lot better
                                about impending danger, or danger you don't see coming...

                                V
                              • deejay@zeta.org.au
                                G Day Iain, I suggest taking a lesson or two with a qualified instructor. The instructor will be able to sort out your rig properly, tune it right and then
                                Message 15 of 19 , Nov 8, 2001
                                  G'Day Iain,

                                  I suggest taking a lesson or two with a qualified instructor. The
                                  instructor will be able to sort out your rig properly, tune it right
                                  and then give you some pointers on how to correct the mistakes you
                                  are making.

                                  You will be heartened by the knowledge that we have all been through
                                  similar difficulties when learning. A single lesson can make the
                                  world of difference with the right instructor.

                                  Have fun and fly safe,

                                  Darren Marshall
                                  Australian Kiteboarding School
                                  www.australiankiteboardingschool.com



                                  --- In kitesurf@y..., "Iain Drummond" <iain.drummond@m...> wrote:
                                  > Tried a 7.wibble Airblast, delaminating quicker than I can peel
                                  onions,
                                  > and an F-One TT of some sort (180ish?) a few months ago and decided
                                  it
                                  > seemed like fun. Not much practice later (barely managed to get on
                                  top
                                  > of the board in some light winds) I shelled out for a BT 9.4 and a
                                  BIC
                                  > 175. I've been buggying for about and fly really bad-tempered 4-
                                  liners
                                  > as well as paragliders, so this seemed like a reasonable choice.
                                  > Firstly, a few words about the kit…
                                  > I know what kites are supposed to look like and boy was I impressed
                                  with
                                  > the BT. Excellent build quality, instruction book(?), bar, lines,
                                  bag
                                  > and the new bladders (so I've been reassured). It flies extremely
                                  well
                                  > and I found the chicken loop superb, giving about 50-60% depower
                                  > (although I didn't exactly measure it). Oh, and I bought a board
                                  bag and
                                  > leash as well – again, excellent quality, etc, etc. Absolutely no
                                  > complaints about Cabrinha gear that I can't pin down to my own
                                  > incompetence.
                                  > The board looks gorgeous. Seems a shame to go out and trash it.
                                  Can't
                                  > say yet whether it's any good (on account of me being really crap),
                                  but
                                  > the quality is high. Cute little set of fins, loop bindings
                                  designed for
                                  > the tropics (lots of padding) rather than Scottish water in winter
                                  > (heating elements), really nice fold-over stainless bolts. Didn't
                                  get an
                                  > Allen key, which was a bit of a nuisance, but the graphics are cute
                                  and
                                  > it looks the part.
                                  > I'm not saying that this stuff is better than anything else, just
                                  that I
                                  > don't think I've been shafted, particularly on the quality issue
                                  that
                                  > seems to be a rather hot topic at the moment. Believe me, I would be
                                  > moaning along with the rest of you if I thought otherwise.
                                  > Here are a few simple questions for you gurus out there and a
                                  vaguely
                                  > amusing tale of me trying to kill myself after a series of
                                  unfortunate
                                  > circumstances.
                                  >
                                  > 1) I can't reach the trim loop whilst under way – urgently or
                                  otherwise.
                                  > Presumably I just need to shorten all of the leaders until I can
                                  reach
                                  > it. That provided some minutes of amusement for the onlookers.
                                  >
                                  > 2) When fully depowered (trim right in and lines on long at
                                  front and
                                  > short at back knots) the kite is extremely eager (i.e. seems
                                  impossible
                                  > to actually prevent) to take off from the water. What's the easiest
                                  way
                                  > of killing the whole thing controllably? I don't want to throw away
                                  the
                                  > bar `cos my lines always seem to get tangled. Flying to the edge of
                                  the
                                  > window is the obvious choice, but that assumes I'm not just
                                  recovering
                                  > from my last ditching which inevitably leaves the kite well in the
                                  power
                                  > zone (usually leaping into the sky just as I get my head above the
                                  water
                                  > again). Slam, glug, slam, glug, etc. You get the picture :-) Is this
                                  > just because it's fully depowered, or my incompetence?
                                  >
                                  > 3) These board leash things, how long do people recon they
                                  should be? My
                                  > board is quite short, does this mean I can get away with less leash
                                  and
                                  > therefore less chance of the damn thing getting wrapped around my
                                  legs?
                                  > I'm not confident enough to contemplate binning the leash unless I'm
                                  > wearing a pair of fins (but then again, see below...).
                                  >
                                  > 4) Assuming I'm taking a course to my right, any comments on
                                  which foot
                                  > I should put in the loops first?
                                  >
                                  > 5) Do people tend to park things like BTs at the top and then
                                  put their
                                  > board on, or dump the kite, get in the board and then relaunch?
                                  >
                                  > So you probably get the idea that I'm a bit incompetent, but eager
                                  to
                                  > learn. Learn I did, and hopefully someone else can learn the easy
                                  way
                                  > too.
                                  >
                                  > The dodgy scenario…
                                  >
                                  > Wind gusting to 22/23mph from 18 (measured on trusty paragliding
                                  wind
                                  > meter). Rigged BT fully depowered then spent about 2hrs body
                                  dragging,
                                  > including almost managing to get upwind. VERY IMPRESSED with kite.
                                  I'm
                                  > using the chicken loop (first thing I did was take the full-power
                                  one
                                  > off the bar). So I went and got the board.
                                  > Still having severe probs in the gusts trying to get feet in the
                                  loops
                                  > and the board facing the right way. Kite control seems fine, in
                                  that I
                                  > can keep the kite at the top of the window in the centre, but my
                                  timing
                                  > sucks and I keep powering up slightly – enough to spin me round.
                                  > Eventually get up on board and off I go for all of 10ft. I come off
                                  and
                                  > in the usual submarine escapade manage to spin round. Kite still
                                  flying,
                                  > leash now beautifully wrapped round both legs. Controlling the kite
                                  gets
                                  > a bit trickier as I can't get my feet down to get any leverage on
                                  the
                                  > bar. That's when I get the full slam/glug/slam/glug experience. By
                                  the
                                  > time I sort myself out and get the leash off my legs I have gone
                                  > downwind further than I should have and there is a nasty 100'
                                  > cliff-thing on my left, about 100yds away. Brain says "keep going
                                  > downwind and get in the next bay", which is only about another
                                  100yds.
                                  > Kite is now sitting in the water a bit further back in the zone
                                  than I
                                  > would really like, bouncing up and down in "I'm gonna launch when
                                  you're
                                  > not looking" mode. About ½ sec later, off we go again.
                                  > At this point I am very aware of how close the cliff face is.
                                  > Unfortunately, my board had managed to sail downwind right in front
                                  of
                                  > me and wedged absolutely perfectly across AND between all 4 lines
                                  (bet
                                  > you can't do that!). Up goes the kite under full power and I can't
                                  > depower it – the board jams the whole thing up solid. I am now well
                                  > clear of the water. Buggy training comes to the fore and haul back
                                  and
                                  > unhook letting the bar get torn out of my hands. Problem over? I
                                  think
                                  > not. Bar whips out and locks perfectly in full power flying position
                                  > courtesy of the board. I am now gaining altitude and very aware of
                                  the
                                  > cliffs. The leash (which I am now dangling from) is now forcing in a
                                  > gentle left turn – exactly what I don't want. Impact in not very
                                  many
                                  > seconds should be absolutely parallel with the cliff. A few
                                  thoughts run
                                  > through my mind at this point: "lucky I'm wearing that new canoeing
                                  > helmet", "pity it won't make much of a difference", "maybe I should
                                  have
                                  > sprung for an impact vest", "boy this will hurt", "wonder which
                                  hospital
                                  > is nearest", "why isn't the kite depowering like it should", "would
                                  you
                                  > look at that board wedged perfectly across the lines", "nice the
                                  way the
                                  > fading sun catches the kite", etc. The leash is the only thing
                                  holding
                                  > me to the kite, so I casually (not!) undo the Velcro and plummet
                                  into
                                  > the water. Never have I been happier to hear the sound of ripping
                                  > velcro. Kite lands about a foot short of the nasty rocks. Swim in
                                  with
                                  > board and retrieve all the bits, mercifully undamaged. Then I went
                                  home
                                  > shaking my head.
                                  > Feel free to comment. I can hear John, Colin and Steve laughing from
                                  > here.
                                  > Methinks I need some more practice…
                                  >
                                  > Iain Drummond
                                  > Programme Manager
                                  > Memex Technology Ltd
                                  > iain.drummond@m...
                                  > 013552 33804 - www.memex.com
                                • iclimbtrees@yahoo.com
                                  TAKE SOME LESSONS BEFORE YOU KILL YOURSELF/SOMEONE!!!!!! ... onions, ... it ... top ... BIC ... liners ... with ... bag ... well ... bag and ... Can t ... but
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Nov 8, 2001
                                    TAKE SOME LESSONS BEFORE YOU KILL YOURSELF/SOMEONE!!!!!!

                                    --- In kitesurf@y..., "Iain Drummond" <iain.drummond@m...> wrote:
                                    > Tried a 7.wibble Airblast, delaminating quicker than I can peel
                                    onions,
                                    > and an F-One TT of some sort (180ish?) a few months ago and decided
                                    it
                                    > seemed like fun. Not much practice later (barely managed to get on
                                    top
                                    > of the board in some light winds) I shelled out for a BT 9.4 and a
                                    BIC
                                    > 175. I've been buggying for about and fly really bad-tempered 4-
                                    liners
                                    > as well as paragliders, so this seemed like a reasonable choice.
                                    > Firstly, a few words about the kit…
                                    > I know what kites are supposed to look like and boy was I impressed
                                    with
                                    > the BT. Excellent build quality, instruction book(?), bar, lines,
                                    bag
                                    > and the new bladders (so I've been reassured). It flies extremely
                                    well
                                    > and I found the chicken loop superb, giving about 50-60% depower
                                    > (although I didn't exactly measure it). Oh, and I bought a board
                                    bag and
                                    > leash as well – again, excellent quality, etc, etc. Absolutely no
                                    > complaints about Cabrinha gear that I can't pin down to my own
                                    > incompetence.
                                    > The board looks gorgeous. Seems a shame to go out and trash it.
                                    Can't
                                    > say yet whether it's any good (on account of me being really crap),
                                    but
                                    > the quality is high. Cute little set of fins, loop bindings
                                    designed for
                                    > the tropics (lots of padding) rather than Scottish water in winter
                                    > (heating elements), really nice fold-over stainless bolts. Didn't
                                    get an
                                    > Allen key, which was a bit of a nuisance, but the graphics are cute
                                    and
                                    > it looks the part.
                                    > I'm not saying that this stuff is better than anything else, just
                                    that I
                                    > don't think I've been shafted, particularly on the quality issue
                                    that
                                    > seems to be a rather hot topic at the moment. Believe me, I would be
                                    > moaning along with the rest of you if I thought otherwise.
                                    > Here are a few simple questions for you gurus out there and a
                                    vaguely
                                    > amusing tale of me trying to kill myself after a series of
                                    unfortunate
                                    > circumstances.
                                    >
                                    > 1) I can't reach the trim loop whilst under way – urgently or
                                    otherwise.
                                    > Presumably I just need to shorten all of the leaders until I can
                                    reach
                                    > it. That provided some minutes of amusement for the onlookers.
                                    >
                                    > 2) When fully depowered (trim right in and lines on long at
                                    front and
                                    > short at back knots) the kite is extremely eager (i.e. seems
                                    impossible
                                    > to actually prevent) to take off from the water. What's the easiest
                                    way
                                    > of killing the whole thing controllably? I don't want to throw away
                                    the
                                    > bar `cos my lines always seem to get tangled. Flying to the edge of
                                    the
                                    > window is the obvious choice, but that assumes I'm not just
                                    recovering
                                    > from my last ditching which inevitably leaves the kite well in the
                                    power
                                    > zone (usually leaping into the sky just as I get my head above the
                                    water
                                    > again). Slam, glug, slam, glug, etc. You get the picture :-) Is this
                                    > just because it's fully depowered, or my incompetence?
                                    >
                                    > 3) These board leash things, how long do people recon they
                                    should be? My
                                    > board is quite short, does this mean I can get away with less leash
                                    and
                                    > therefore less chance of the damn thing getting wrapped around my
                                    legs?
                                    > I'm not confident enough to contemplate binning the leash unless I'm
                                    > wearing a pair of fins (but then again, see below...).
                                    >
                                    > 4) Assuming I'm taking a course to my right, any comments on
                                    which foot
                                    > I should put in the loops first?
                                    >
                                    > 5) Do people tend to park things like BTs at the top and then
                                    put their
                                    > board on, or dump the kite, get in the board and then relaunch?
                                    >
                                    > So you probably get the idea that I'm a bit incompetent, but eager
                                    to
                                    > learn. Learn I did, and hopefully someone else can learn the easy
                                    way
                                    > too.
                                    >
                                    > The dodgy scenario…
                                    >
                                    > Wind gusting to 22/23mph from 18 (measured on trusty paragliding
                                    wind
                                    > meter). Rigged BT fully depowered then spent about 2hrs body
                                    dragging,
                                    > including almost managing to get upwind. VERY IMPRESSED with kite.
                                    I'm
                                    > using the chicken loop (first thing I did was take the full-power
                                    one
                                    > off the bar). So I went and got the board.
                                    > Still having severe probs in the gusts trying to get feet in the
                                    loops
                                    > and the board facing the right way. Kite control seems fine, in
                                    that I
                                    > can keep the kite at the top of the window in the centre, but my
                                    timing
                                    > sucks and I keep powering up slightly – enough to spin me round.
                                    > Eventually get up on board and off I go for all of 10ft. I come off
                                    and
                                    > in the usual submarine escapade manage to spin round. Kite still
                                    flying,
                                    > leash now beautifully wrapped round both legs. Controlling the kite
                                    gets
                                    > a bit trickier as I can't get my feet down to get any leverage on
                                    the
                                    > bar. That's when I get the full slam/glug/slam/glug experience. By
                                    the
                                    > time I sort myself out and get the leash off my legs I have gone
                                    > downwind further than I should have and there is a nasty 100'
                                    > cliff-thing on my left, about 100yds away. Brain says "keep going
                                    > downwind and get in the next bay", which is only about another
                                    100yds.
                                    > Kite is now sitting in the water a bit further back in the zone
                                    than I
                                    > would really like, bouncing up and down in "I'm gonna launch when
                                    you're
                                    > not looking" mode. About ½ sec later, off we go again.
                                    > At this point I am very aware of how close the cliff face is.
                                    > Unfortunately, my board had managed to sail downwind right in front
                                    of
                                    > me and wedged absolutely perfectly across AND between all 4 lines
                                    (bet
                                    > you can't do that!). Up goes the kite under full power and I can't
                                    > depower it – the board jams the whole thing up solid. I am now well
                                    > clear of the water. Buggy training comes to the fore and haul back
                                    and
                                    > unhook letting the bar get torn out of my hands. Problem over? I
                                    think
                                    > not. Bar whips out and locks perfectly in full power flying position
                                    > courtesy of the board. I am now gaining altitude and very aware of
                                    the
                                    > cliffs. The leash (which I am now dangling from) is now forcing in a
                                    > gentle left turn – exactly what I don't want. Impact in not very
                                    many
                                    > seconds should be absolutely parallel with the cliff. A few
                                    thoughts run
                                    > through my mind at this point: "lucky I'm wearing that new canoeing
                                    > helmet", "pity it won't make much of a difference", "maybe I should
                                    have
                                    > sprung for an impact vest", "boy this will hurt", "wonder which
                                    hospital
                                    > is nearest", "why isn't the kite depowering like it should", "would
                                    you
                                    > look at that board wedged perfectly across the lines", "nice the
                                    way the
                                    > fading sun catches the kite", etc. The leash is the only thing
                                    holding
                                    > me to the kite, so I casually (not!) undo the Velcro and plummet
                                    into
                                    > the water. Never have I been happier to hear the sound of ripping
                                    > velcro. Kite lands about a foot short of the nasty rocks. Swim in
                                    with
                                    > board and retrieve all the bits, mercifully undamaged. Then I went
                                    home
                                    > shaking my head.
                                    > Feel free to comment. I can hear John, Colin and Steve laughing from
                                    > here.
                                    > Methinks I need some more practice…
                                    >
                                    > Iain Drummond
                                    > Programme Manager
                                    > Memex Technology Ltd
                                    > iain.drummond@m...
                                    > 013552 33804 - www.memex.com
                                  • Iain Drummond
                                    The concensus seems to be split between those that sympathise and those that think I m a liability. Nothing new there! Thanks to all those who posted their
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Nov 9, 2001
                                      The concensus seems to be split between those that sympathise and those
                                      that think I'm a liability.

                                      Nothing new there!

                                      Thanks to all those who posted their advice, all of which looks sane and
                                      reasonable.

                                      Anyone know of any kitesurfing instructors in Scotland?
                                    • ichiman1@yahoo.com
                                      Sounds like an average day of kitesurfing to me... Is there any other way to kitesurf??
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Dec 1, 2001
                                        Sounds like an average day of kitesurfing to me...
                                        Is there any other way to kitesurf??
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