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Reel-leash idea - almost leashless

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  • thorpes@arklogic.com
    Has anyone ever considered making a a really long reel leash from much thinner webbing or line ( maybe kite line ). A leash so long that it would never fully
    Message 1 of 19 , Nov 1, 2001
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      Has anyone ever considered making a a really long reel leash from
      much thinner webbing or line ( maybe kite line ). A leash so long
      that it would never fully unwind in any normal separation from the
      board. This would more or less give the freedom of being leashless
      but with a guaranteed way to recover the board. It doesn't even need
      to have a spring return - a little winder could be used to reel it
      in. A 30 or 40m kite-line leash could be build into a package much
      smaller than the Oceanus reel-leash.

      Steve T.
    • c_batalha@clix.pt
      ... Would you like the idea of having that thinner leash around your neck in a big crash??? The kite pulling in one direction and the board been dragged behind
      Message 2 of 19 , Nov 1, 2001
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        > Has anyone ever considered making a a really long reel leash from
        > much thinner webbing or line ( maybe kite line ).

        Would you like the idea of having that thinner leash around your neck
        in a big crash??? The kite pulling in one direction and the board
        been dragged behind you!!!

        I WOULDN'T LIKE, and I'm sure you neither!!

        Good winds
        Carlos
      • thorpes@arklogic.com
        ... neck ... That could just as easily happen with a kiteline ( and already has in at least one case I heard of! ) But I don t too much like the idea of being
        Message 3 of 19 , Nov 1, 2001
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          --- In kitesurf@y..., c_batalha@c... wrote:
          > > Has anyone ever considered making a a really long reel leash from
          > > much thinner webbing or line ( maybe kite line ).
          >
          > Would you like the idea of having that thinner leash around your
          neck
          > in a big crash??? The kite pulling in one direction and the board
          > been dragged behind you!!!
          >
          > I WOULDN'T LIKE, and I'm sure you neither!!

          That could just as easily happen with a kiteline ( and already has in
          at least one case I heard of! )
          But I don't too much like the idea of being knocked unconscious or
          having my neck or back broken by the sling-shot action of a sharped-
          edged twintip, half a mile offshore, and I'm sure you and many others
          don't like the idea either, but many of us ride with leashes that can
          and have caused serious injuries. And many refuse to wear helmets.
          You choose your risk - I'll choose mine.

          Actually my next crazy idea involves a board retreival method with no
          risk of sling-shot, no retractible garrote attaching you to the board
          and--if it works--a 92.3% chance of board retreival in all conditions
          except thick kelp. ;-)


          Steve T.
        • Rainer Leuschke
          ... What is it, what is it? A spring loaded mini sail that pops up when you pop off to sail the board downwind faster? 8P R!
          Message 4 of 19 , Nov 1, 2001
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            On Thu, 1 Nov 2001 thorpes@... wrote:
            > Actually my next crazy idea involves a board retreival method with no
            > risk of sling-shot, no retractible garrote attaching you to the board
            > and--if it works--a 92.3% chance of board retreival in all conditions
            > except thick kelp. ;-)

            What is it, what is it? A spring loaded mini sail that pops up when you
            pop off to sail the board downwind faster? 8P

            R!
          • thorpes@arklogic.com
            ... with no ... board ... conditions ... you ... Nope - although that is where my idea started. Obviously that would only have a 43.7% of board retreival
            Message 5 of 19 , Nov 1, 2001
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              --- In kitesurf@y..., Rainer Leuschke <rainer@u...> wrote:
              >
              > On Thu, 1 Nov 2001 thorpes@a... wrote:
              > > Actually my next crazy idea involves a board retreival method
              with no
              > > risk of sling-shot, no retractible garrote attaching you to the
              board
              > > and--if it works--a 92.3% chance of board retreival in all
              conditions
              > > except thick kelp. ;-)
              >
              > What is it, what is it? A spring loaded mini sail that pops up when
              you
              > pop off to sail the board downwind faster? 8P
              >
              > R!

              Nope - although that is where my idea started. Obviously that would
              only have a 43.7% of board retreival though - there would be a 50%
              chance of it landing upsidedown renering the spring loaded sail
              useless then a further 6.3% chance of failure due to other
              circumstances. My new idea would work (theoretically) whichever way
              up the board landed ;-)

              Keep guessing - I'll test it out next time I'm on the water.

              Steve T.
            • Rainer Leuschke
              ... Yeah, that s what I figured too, unless you have a sail on either side and only pop up the top one. Tricky to implement 8) ... How bout a baloon/bladder
              Message 6 of 19 , Nov 1, 2001
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                On Thu, 1 Nov 2001 thorpes@... wrote:
                > only have a 43.7% of board retreival though - there would be a 50%

                Yeah, that's what I figured too, unless you have a sail on either side and
                only pop up the top one. Tricky to implement 8)

                > Keep guessing - I'll test it out next time I'm on the water.

                How 'bout a baloon/bladder inflating when you eject? If it lands upside
                down the bladder could flip it over. Not sure how to
                reset the apparatus though. Getting closer?

                R!
              • thorpes@arklogic.com
                ... side and ... upside ... Much closer - in fact you are too close - try to get a little farther away ;-) Steve T.
                Message 7 of 19 , Nov 1, 2001
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                  --- In kitesurf@y..., Rainer Leuschke <rainer@u...> wrote:
                  >
                  > On Thu, 1 Nov 2001 thorpes@a... wrote:
                  > > only have a 43.7% of board retreival though - there would be a 50%
                  >
                  > Yeah, that's what I figured too, unless you have a sail on either
                  side and
                  > only pop up the top one. Tricky to implement 8)
                  >
                  > > Keep guessing - I'll test it out next time I'm on the water.
                  >
                  > How 'bout a baloon/bladder inflating when you eject? If it lands
                  upside
                  > down the bladder could flip it over. Not sure how to
                  > reset the apparatus though. Getting closer?
                  >
                  > R!

                  Much closer - in fact you are "too close" - try to get a
                  little "farther away" ;-)

                  Steve T.
                • thorpes@arklogic.com
                  ... Okay - here s the idea ... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kitesurf/files/TinMan/LeashlessBoard.jpg with the right materials this shuold be able to compress
                  Message 8 of 19 , Nov 1, 2001
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                    --- In kitesurf@y..., Rainer Leuschke <rainer@u...> wrote:

                    > How 'bout a baloon/bladder inflating when you eject?...

                    > ... Getting closer?


                    Okay - here's the idea ...

                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kitesurf/files/TinMan/LeashlessBoard.jpg

                    with the right materials this shuold be able to compress into a
                    package no larger than a reel leash - an elastic-necked pouch worn
                    neck down, on the ankle.

                    So waddaya think?
                    How will this one kill me. Carlos? ;-)

                    Steve T.
                  • c_batalha@clix.pt
                    I must say that this system is, at least, original!!! Just to know... How would you retrieve the system again? Carlos PS: Altought this could work fine, I
                    Message 9 of 19 , Nov 1, 2001
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                      I must say that this system is, at least, original!!!

                      Just to know... How would you retrieve the system again?

                      Carlos
                      PS: Altought this could work fine, I prefer my "old" surfboard leash
                      and my helmet when I ride my TT!!

                      PS2: Just to know... I rarely have really bad crashs in my TT, cause
                      I usually ride wakeboards and just use my TT in very light winds!!


                      --- In kitesurf@y..., thorpes@a... wrote:
                      > --- In kitesurf@y..., Rainer Leuschke <rainer@u...> wrote:
                      >
                      > > How 'bout a baloon/bladder inflating when you eject?...
                      >
                      > > ... Getting closer?
                      >
                      >
                      > Okay - here's the idea ...
                      >
                      >
                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kitesurf/files/TinMan/LeashlessBoard.jpg
                      >
                      > with the right materials this shuold be able to compress into a
                      > package no larger than a reel leash - an elastic-necked pouch worn
                      > neck down, on the ankle.
                      >
                      > So waddaya think?
                      > How will this one kill me. Carlos? ;-)
                      >
                      > Steve T.
                    • thorpes@arklogic.com
                      ... I figured you just sqish it up into a ball and stuff it back in the pouch (which is anchored to your leg or harness) - ready to go again! ... Hey - I m
                      Message 10 of 19 , Nov 1, 2001
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                        --- In kitesurf@y..., c_batalha@c... wrote:
                        > I must say that this system is, at least, original!!!
                        >
                        > Just to know... How would you retrieve the system again?

                        I figured you just sqish it up into a ball and stuff it back in the
                        pouch (which is anchored to your leg or harness) - ready to go again!


                        > Carlos
                        > PS: Altought this could work fine, I prefer my "old"
                        > surfboard leash and my helmet when I ride my TT!!

                        Hey - I'm happy with my reel-leash + Gath on my LWD 169
                        but there seemed to be a lot of people who would like to
                        go leashless except for the possibility of loosing a board.

                        PS - even if this idea does not work to retrieve the board
                        something similar could vastly improve the chances of
                        seeing a lost board in the ocean.


                        Steve T.
                      • janwcoffey@yahoo.com
                        I m back from Maui, had a greate time. I have the solution. Weare a really short leash, and use a wakeboard. After only having the wakeboard for the whole
                        Message 11 of 19 , Nov 1, 2001
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                          I'm back from Maui, had a greate time.

                          I have the solution. Weare a really short leash, and use a wakeboard.

                          After only having the wakeboard for the whole week, I don't
                          see any reason to ride my twin, just put up a bigger kite.

                          If my girl wasn't interested in learning I would sell the twin.

                          Jan

                          --- In kitesurf@y..., thorpes@a... wrote:
                          > --- In kitesurf@y..., c_batalha@c... wrote:
                          > > I must say that this system is, at least, original!!!
                          > >
                          > > Just to know... How would you retrieve the system again?
                          >
                          > I figured you just sqish it up into a ball and stuff it back in the
                          > pouch (which is anchored to your leg or harness) - ready to go
                          again!
                          >
                          >
                          > > Carlos
                          > > PS: Altought this could work fine, I prefer my "old"
                          > > surfboard leash and my helmet when I ride my TT!!
                          >
                          > Hey - I'm happy with my reel-leash + Gath on my LWD 169
                          > but there seemed to be a lot of people who would like to
                          > go leashless except for the possibility of loosing a board.
                          >
                          > PS - even if this idea does not work to retrieve the board
                          > something similar could vastly improve the chances of
                          > seeing a lost board in the ocean.
                          >
                          >
                          > Steve T.
                        • c_batalha@clix.pt
                          YAHHHH!!! Someone that shares my opinion!!! You can always use a wakeboard... just use more kite!!! And, once my girl doesn t wanna try this sport, I think
                          Message 12 of 19 , Nov 1, 2001
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                            YAHHHH!!!
                            Someone that shares my opinion!!! You can always use a wakeboard...
                            just use more kite!!!

                            And, once my girl doesn't wanna try this sport, I think I'll sell my
                            brunotti mirror 180!

                            Carlos



                            --- In kitesurf@y..., janwcoffey@y... wrote:
                            >
                            > I'm back from Maui, had a greate time.
                            >
                            > I have the solution. Weare a really short leash, and use a
                            wakeboard.
                            >
                            > After only having the wakeboard for the whole week, I don't
                            > see any reason to ride my twin, just put up a bigger kite.
                            >
                            > If my girl wasn't interested in learning I would sell the twin.
                            >
                            > Jan
                            >
                            > --- In kitesurf@y..., thorpes@a... wrote:
                            > > --- In kitesurf@y..., c_batalha@c... wrote:
                            > > > I must say that this system is, at least, original!!!
                            > > >
                            > > > Just to know... How would you retrieve the system again?
                            > >
                            > > I figured you just sqish it up into a ball and stuff it back in
                            the
                            > > pouch (which is anchored to your leg or harness) - ready to go
                            > again!
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > > Carlos
                            > > > PS: Altought this could work fine, I prefer my "old"
                            > > > surfboard leash and my helmet when I ride my TT!!
                            > >
                            > > Hey - I'm happy with my reel-leash + Gath on my LWD 169
                            > > but there seemed to be a lot of people who would like to
                            > > go leashless except for the possibility of loosing a board.
                            > >
                            > > PS - even if this idea does not work to retrieve the board
                            > > something similar could vastly improve the chances of
                            > > seeing a lost board in the ocean.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Steve T.
                          • Iain Drummond
                            Tried a 7.wibble Airblast, delaminating quicker than I can peel onions, and an F-One TT of some sort (180ish?) a few months ago and decided it seemed like fun.
                            Message 13 of 19 , Nov 8, 2001
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                              Tried a 7.wibble Airblast, delaminating quicker than I can peel onions,
                              and an F-One TT of some sort (180ish?) a few months ago and decided it
                              seemed like fun. Not much practice later (barely managed to get on top
                              of the board in some light winds) I shelled out for a BT 9.4 and a BIC
                              175. I’ve been buggying for about and fly really bad-tempered 4-liners
                              as well as paragliders, so this seemed like a reasonable choice.
                              Firstly, a few words about the kit…
                              I know what kites are supposed to look like and boy was I impressed with
                              the BT. Excellent build quality, instruction book(?), bar, lines, bag
                              and the new bladders (so I’ve been reassured). It flies extremely well
                              and I found the chicken loop superb, giving about 50-60% depower
                              (although I didn’t exactly measure it). Oh, and I bought a board bag and
                              leash as well – again, excellent quality, etc, etc. Absolutely no
                              complaints about Cabrinha gear that I can’t pin down to my own
                              incompetence.
                              The board looks gorgeous. Seems a shame to go out and trash it. Can’t
                              say yet whether it’s any good (on account of me being really crap), but
                              the quality is high. Cute little set of fins, loop bindings designed for
                              the tropics (lots of padding) rather than Scottish water in winter
                              (heating elements), really nice fold-over stainless bolts. Didn’t get an
                              Allen key, which was a bit of a nuisance, but the graphics are cute and
                              it looks the part.
                              I’m not saying that this stuff is better than anything else, just that I
                              don’t think I’ve been shafted, particularly on the quality issue that
                              seems to be a rather hot topic at the moment. Believe me, I would be
                              moaning along with the rest of you if I thought otherwise.
                              Here are a few simple questions for you gurus out there and a vaguely
                              amusing tale of me trying to kill myself after a series of unfortunate
                              circumstances.

                              1) I can’t reach the trim loop whilst under way – urgently or otherwise.
                              Presumably I just need to shorten all of the leaders until I can reach
                              it. That provided some minutes of amusement for the onlookers.

                              2) When fully depowered (trim right in and lines on long at front and
                              short at back knots) the kite is extremely eager (i.e. seems impossible
                              to actually prevent) to take off from the water. What’s the easiest way
                              of killing the whole thing controllably? I don’t want to throw away the
                              bar ‘cos my lines always seem to get tangled. Flying to the edge of the
                              window is the obvious choice, but that assumes I’m not just recovering
                              from my last ditching which inevitably leaves the kite well in the power
                              zone (usually leaping into the sky just as I get my head above the water
                              again). Slam, glug, slam, glug, etc. You get the picture :-) Is this
                              just because it’s fully depowered, or my incompetence?

                              3) These board leash things, how long do people recon they should be? My
                              board is quite short, does this mean I can get away with less leash and
                              therefore less chance of the damn thing getting wrapped around my legs?
                              I'm not confident enough to contemplate binning the leash unless I'm
                              wearing a pair of fins (but then again, see below...).

                              4) Assuming I’m taking a course to my right, any comments on which foot
                              I should put in the loops first?

                              5) Do people tend to park things like BTs at the top and then put their
                              board on, or dump the kite, get in the board and then relaunch?

                              So you probably get the idea that I’m a bit incompetent, but eager to
                              learn. Learn I did, and hopefully someone else can learn the easy way
                              too.

                              The dodgy scenario…

                              Wind gusting to 22/23mph from 18 (measured on trusty paragliding wind
                              meter). Rigged BT fully depowered then spent about 2hrs body dragging,
                              including almost managing to get upwind. VERY IMPRESSED with kite. I’m
                              using the chicken loop (first thing I did was take the full-power one
                              off the bar). So I went and got the board.
                              Still having severe probs in the gusts trying to get feet in the loops
                              and the board facing the right way. Kite control seems fine, in that I
                              can keep the kite at the top of the window in the centre, but my timing
                              sucks and I keep powering up slightly – enough to spin me round.
                              Eventually get up on board and off I go for all of 10ft. I come off and
                              in the usual submarine escapade manage to spin round. Kite still flying,
                              leash now beautifully wrapped round both legs. Controlling the kite gets
                              a bit trickier as I can’t get my feet down to get any leverage on the
                              bar. That’s when I get the full slam/glug/slam/glug experience. By the
                              time I sort myself out and get the leash off my legs I have gone
                              downwind further than I should have and there is a nasty 100’
                              cliff-thing on my left, about 100yds away. Brain says “keep going
                              downwind and get in the next bay”, which is only about another 100yds.
                              Kite is now sitting in the water a bit further back in the zone than I
                              would really like, bouncing up and down in “I’m gonna launch when you’re
                              not looking” mode. About ½ sec later, off we go again.
                              At this point I am very aware of how close the cliff face is.
                              Unfortunately, my board had managed to sail downwind right in front of
                              me and wedged absolutely perfectly across AND between all 4 lines (bet
                              you can’t do that!). Up goes the kite under full power and I can’t
                              depower it – the board jams the whole thing up solid. I am now well
                              clear of the water. Buggy training comes to the fore and haul back and
                              unhook letting the bar get torn out of my hands. Problem over? I think
                              not. Bar whips out and locks perfectly in full power flying position
                              courtesy of the board. I am now gaining altitude and very aware of the
                              cliffs. The leash (which I am now dangling from) is now forcing in a
                              gentle left turn – exactly what I don’t want. Impact in not very many
                              seconds should be absolutely parallel with the cliff. A few thoughts run
                              through my mind at this point: “lucky I’m wearing that new canoeing
                              helmet”, “pity it won’t make much of a difference”, “maybe I should have
                              sprung for an impact vest”, “boy this will hurt”, “wonder which hospital
                              is nearest”, “why isn’t the kite depowering like it should”, “would you
                              look at that board wedged perfectly across the lines”, “nice the way the
                              fading sun catches the kite”, etc. The leash is the only thing holding
                              me to the kite, so I casually (not!) undo the Velcro and plummet into
                              the water. Never have I been happier to hear the sound of ripping
                              velcro. Kite lands about a foot short of the nasty rocks. Swim in with
                              board and retrieve all the bits, mercifully undamaged. Then I went home
                              shaking my head.
                              Feel free to comment. I can hear John, Colin and Steve laughing from
                              here.
                              Methinks I need some more practice…

                              Iain Drummond
                              Programme Manager
                              Memex Technology Ltd
                              iain.drummond@...
                              013552 33804 - www.memex.com
                            • fishersfort@attglobal.net
                              ... otherwise. ... reach ... front and ... impossible ... This sounds backwards. You kill power by setting the knots to hold the nose lower and let the back
                              Message 14 of 19 , Nov 8, 2001
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                                >1) I can't reach the trim loop whilst under way – urgently or
                                otherwise.
                                >Presumably I just need to shorten all of the leaders until I can
                                reach
                                >it. That provided some minutes of amusement for the onlookers.

                                >2) When fully depowered (trim right in and lines on long at
                                front and
                                >short at back knots) the kite is extremely eager (i.e. seems
                                impossible
                                >to actually prevent) to take off from the water.


                                This sounds backwards. You kill power by setting the knots to hold
                                the nose lower and let the back up.


                                >What's the easiest way
                                >of killing the whole thing controllably? I don't want to throw away
                                the
                                >bar `cos my lines always seem to get tangled. Flying to the edge of
                                the
                                >window is the obvious choice, but that assumes I'm not just
                                recovering
                                >from my last ditching which inevitably leaves the kite well in the
                                power
                                >zone (usually leaping into the sky just as I get my head above the
                                water
                                >again). Slam, glug, slam, glug, etc. You get the picture :-) Is this
                                >just because it's fully depowered, or my incompetence?


                                Kites don't have an eject button. Enjoy the thrashing. Hehehe.


                                >3) These board leash things, how long do people recon they
                                should be? My
                                >board is quite short, does this mean I can get away with less leash
                                and
                                >therefore less chance of the damn thing getting wrapped around my
                                legs?
                                >I'm not confident enough to contemplate binning the leash unless I'm
                                >wearing a pair of fins (but then again, see below...).


                                It will happen with all leashes. Hehehehe.


                                >4) Assuming I'm taking a course to my right, any comments on
                                which foot
                                I should put in the loops first?

                                >5) Do people tend to park things like BTs at the top and then
                                put their
                                board on,

                                YES

                                >or dump the kite, get in the board and then relaunch? NO

                                >Feel free to comment. I can hear John, Colin and Steve laughing from
                                >here.
                                >Methinks I need some more practice…


                                That was a great post! You made me laugh.

                                Dwight


                                Iain Drummond
                                Programme Manager
                                Memex Technology Ltd
                                iain.drummond@m...
                                013552 33804 - www.memex.com
                              • surfsup@ragingbull.com
                                ... the ... the ... recovering ... power ... water ... I m a beginner at this, but if you re looking for a way to get out of the kite completely, you should
                                Message 15 of 19 , Nov 8, 2001
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                                  >What's the easiest way
                                  >of killing the whole thing controllably? I don't want to throw away
                                  the
                                  >bar `cos my lines always seem to get tangled. Flying to the edge of
                                  the
                                  >window is the obvious choice, but that assumes I'm not just
                                  recovering
                                  >from my last ditching which inevitably leaves the kite well in the
                                  power
                                  >zone (usually leaping into the sky just as I get my head above the
                                  water
                                  >again). Slam, glug, slam, glug, etc. You get the picture :-) Is this
                                  >just because it's fully depowered, or my incompetence?

                                  I'm a beginner at this, but if you're looking for a way to get out of
                                  the kite completely, you should have some sort of system devised to
                                  allow you to do this. I tend to think of this as the "eject button"
                                  that another poster says doesn't exist. It's pretty close to that.
                                  Mel has been instrumental in helping me set this safety-system up and
                                  it didn't take very long - or much cash. Besides, how much is your
                                  life worth thrashed against a 100' cliff? More than some extra rope
                                  and shackles...

                                  Here's my files that I posted in the file folder to give you an idea
                                  of the system:

                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kitesurf/files/surfsup/

                                  Not only is the system functional, but it makes me feel a lot better
                                  about impending danger, or danger you don't see coming...

                                  V
                                • deejay@zeta.org.au
                                  G Day Iain, I suggest taking a lesson or two with a qualified instructor. The instructor will be able to sort out your rig properly, tune it right and then
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Nov 8, 2001
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                                    G'Day Iain,

                                    I suggest taking a lesson or two with a qualified instructor. The
                                    instructor will be able to sort out your rig properly, tune it right
                                    and then give you some pointers on how to correct the mistakes you
                                    are making.

                                    You will be heartened by the knowledge that we have all been through
                                    similar difficulties when learning. A single lesson can make the
                                    world of difference with the right instructor.

                                    Have fun and fly safe,

                                    Darren Marshall
                                    Australian Kiteboarding School
                                    www.australiankiteboardingschool.com



                                    --- In kitesurf@y..., "Iain Drummond" <iain.drummond@m...> wrote:
                                    > Tried a 7.wibble Airblast, delaminating quicker than I can peel
                                    onions,
                                    > and an F-One TT of some sort (180ish?) a few months ago and decided
                                    it
                                    > seemed like fun. Not much practice later (barely managed to get on
                                    top
                                    > of the board in some light winds) I shelled out for a BT 9.4 and a
                                    BIC
                                    > 175. I've been buggying for about and fly really bad-tempered 4-
                                    liners
                                    > as well as paragliders, so this seemed like a reasonable choice.
                                    > Firstly, a few words about the kit…
                                    > I know what kites are supposed to look like and boy was I impressed
                                    with
                                    > the BT. Excellent build quality, instruction book(?), bar, lines,
                                    bag
                                    > and the new bladders (so I've been reassured). It flies extremely
                                    well
                                    > and I found the chicken loop superb, giving about 50-60% depower
                                    > (although I didn't exactly measure it). Oh, and I bought a board
                                    bag and
                                    > leash as well – again, excellent quality, etc, etc. Absolutely no
                                    > complaints about Cabrinha gear that I can't pin down to my own
                                    > incompetence.
                                    > The board looks gorgeous. Seems a shame to go out and trash it.
                                    Can't
                                    > say yet whether it's any good (on account of me being really crap),
                                    but
                                    > the quality is high. Cute little set of fins, loop bindings
                                    designed for
                                    > the tropics (lots of padding) rather than Scottish water in winter
                                    > (heating elements), really nice fold-over stainless bolts. Didn't
                                    get an
                                    > Allen key, which was a bit of a nuisance, but the graphics are cute
                                    and
                                    > it looks the part.
                                    > I'm not saying that this stuff is better than anything else, just
                                    that I
                                    > don't think I've been shafted, particularly on the quality issue
                                    that
                                    > seems to be a rather hot topic at the moment. Believe me, I would be
                                    > moaning along with the rest of you if I thought otherwise.
                                    > Here are a few simple questions for you gurus out there and a
                                    vaguely
                                    > amusing tale of me trying to kill myself after a series of
                                    unfortunate
                                    > circumstances.
                                    >
                                    > 1) I can't reach the trim loop whilst under way – urgently or
                                    otherwise.
                                    > Presumably I just need to shorten all of the leaders until I can
                                    reach
                                    > it. That provided some minutes of amusement for the onlookers.
                                    >
                                    > 2) When fully depowered (trim right in and lines on long at
                                    front and
                                    > short at back knots) the kite is extremely eager (i.e. seems
                                    impossible
                                    > to actually prevent) to take off from the water. What's the easiest
                                    way
                                    > of killing the whole thing controllably? I don't want to throw away
                                    the
                                    > bar `cos my lines always seem to get tangled. Flying to the edge of
                                    the
                                    > window is the obvious choice, but that assumes I'm not just
                                    recovering
                                    > from my last ditching which inevitably leaves the kite well in the
                                    power
                                    > zone (usually leaping into the sky just as I get my head above the
                                    water
                                    > again). Slam, glug, slam, glug, etc. You get the picture :-) Is this
                                    > just because it's fully depowered, or my incompetence?
                                    >
                                    > 3) These board leash things, how long do people recon they
                                    should be? My
                                    > board is quite short, does this mean I can get away with less leash
                                    and
                                    > therefore less chance of the damn thing getting wrapped around my
                                    legs?
                                    > I'm not confident enough to contemplate binning the leash unless I'm
                                    > wearing a pair of fins (but then again, see below...).
                                    >
                                    > 4) Assuming I'm taking a course to my right, any comments on
                                    which foot
                                    > I should put in the loops first?
                                    >
                                    > 5) Do people tend to park things like BTs at the top and then
                                    put their
                                    > board on, or dump the kite, get in the board and then relaunch?
                                    >
                                    > So you probably get the idea that I'm a bit incompetent, but eager
                                    to
                                    > learn. Learn I did, and hopefully someone else can learn the easy
                                    way
                                    > too.
                                    >
                                    > The dodgy scenario…
                                    >
                                    > Wind gusting to 22/23mph from 18 (measured on trusty paragliding
                                    wind
                                    > meter). Rigged BT fully depowered then spent about 2hrs body
                                    dragging,
                                    > including almost managing to get upwind. VERY IMPRESSED with kite.
                                    I'm
                                    > using the chicken loop (first thing I did was take the full-power
                                    one
                                    > off the bar). So I went and got the board.
                                    > Still having severe probs in the gusts trying to get feet in the
                                    loops
                                    > and the board facing the right way. Kite control seems fine, in
                                    that I
                                    > can keep the kite at the top of the window in the centre, but my
                                    timing
                                    > sucks and I keep powering up slightly – enough to spin me round.
                                    > Eventually get up on board and off I go for all of 10ft. I come off
                                    and
                                    > in the usual submarine escapade manage to spin round. Kite still
                                    flying,
                                    > leash now beautifully wrapped round both legs. Controlling the kite
                                    gets
                                    > a bit trickier as I can't get my feet down to get any leverage on
                                    the
                                    > bar. That's when I get the full slam/glug/slam/glug experience. By
                                    the
                                    > time I sort myself out and get the leash off my legs I have gone
                                    > downwind further than I should have and there is a nasty 100'
                                    > cliff-thing on my left, about 100yds away. Brain says "keep going
                                    > downwind and get in the next bay", which is only about another
                                    100yds.
                                    > Kite is now sitting in the water a bit further back in the zone
                                    than I
                                    > would really like, bouncing up and down in "I'm gonna launch when
                                    you're
                                    > not looking" mode. About ½ sec later, off we go again.
                                    > At this point I am very aware of how close the cliff face is.
                                    > Unfortunately, my board had managed to sail downwind right in front
                                    of
                                    > me and wedged absolutely perfectly across AND between all 4 lines
                                    (bet
                                    > you can't do that!). Up goes the kite under full power and I can't
                                    > depower it – the board jams the whole thing up solid. I am now well
                                    > clear of the water. Buggy training comes to the fore and haul back
                                    and
                                    > unhook letting the bar get torn out of my hands. Problem over? I
                                    think
                                    > not. Bar whips out and locks perfectly in full power flying position
                                    > courtesy of the board. I am now gaining altitude and very aware of
                                    the
                                    > cliffs. The leash (which I am now dangling from) is now forcing in a
                                    > gentle left turn – exactly what I don't want. Impact in not very
                                    many
                                    > seconds should be absolutely parallel with the cliff. A few
                                    thoughts run
                                    > through my mind at this point: "lucky I'm wearing that new canoeing
                                    > helmet", "pity it won't make much of a difference", "maybe I should
                                    have
                                    > sprung for an impact vest", "boy this will hurt", "wonder which
                                    hospital
                                    > is nearest", "why isn't the kite depowering like it should", "would
                                    you
                                    > look at that board wedged perfectly across the lines", "nice the
                                    way the
                                    > fading sun catches the kite", etc. The leash is the only thing
                                    holding
                                    > me to the kite, so I casually (not!) undo the Velcro and plummet
                                    into
                                    > the water. Never have I been happier to hear the sound of ripping
                                    > velcro. Kite lands about a foot short of the nasty rocks. Swim in
                                    with
                                    > board and retrieve all the bits, mercifully undamaged. Then I went
                                    home
                                    > shaking my head.
                                    > Feel free to comment. I can hear John, Colin and Steve laughing from
                                    > here.
                                    > Methinks I need some more practice…
                                    >
                                    > Iain Drummond
                                    > Programme Manager
                                    > Memex Technology Ltd
                                    > iain.drummond@m...
                                    > 013552 33804 - www.memex.com
                                  • iclimbtrees@yahoo.com
                                    TAKE SOME LESSONS BEFORE YOU KILL YOURSELF/SOMEONE!!!!!! ... onions, ... it ... top ... BIC ... liners ... with ... bag ... well ... bag and ... Can t ... but
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Nov 8, 2001
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                                      TAKE SOME LESSONS BEFORE YOU KILL YOURSELF/SOMEONE!!!!!!

                                      --- In kitesurf@y..., "Iain Drummond" <iain.drummond@m...> wrote:
                                      > Tried a 7.wibble Airblast, delaminating quicker than I can peel
                                      onions,
                                      > and an F-One TT of some sort (180ish?) a few months ago and decided
                                      it
                                      > seemed like fun. Not much practice later (barely managed to get on
                                      top
                                      > of the board in some light winds) I shelled out for a BT 9.4 and a
                                      BIC
                                      > 175. I've been buggying for about and fly really bad-tempered 4-
                                      liners
                                      > as well as paragliders, so this seemed like a reasonable choice.
                                      > Firstly, a few words about the kit…
                                      > I know what kites are supposed to look like and boy was I impressed
                                      with
                                      > the BT. Excellent build quality, instruction book(?), bar, lines,
                                      bag
                                      > and the new bladders (so I've been reassured). It flies extremely
                                      well
                                      > and I found the chicken loop superb, giving about 50-60% depower
                                      > (although I didn't exactly measure it). Oh, and I bought a board
                                      bag and
                                      > leash as well – again, excellent quality, etc, etc. Absolutely no
                                      > complaints about Cabrinha gear that I can't pin down to my own
                                      > incompetence.
                                      > The board looks gorgeous. Seems a shame to go out and trash it.
                                      Can't
                                      > say yet whether it's any good (on account of me being really crap),
                                      but
                                      > the quality is high. Cute little set of fins, loop bindings
                                      designed for
                                      > the tropics (lots of padding) rather than Scottish water in winter
                                      > (heating elements), really nice fold-over stainless bolts. Didn't
                                      get an
                                      > Allen key, which was a bit of a nuisance, but the graphics are cute
                                      and
                                      > it looks the part.
                                      > I'm not saying that this stuff is better than anything else, just
                                      that I
                                      > don't think I've been shafted, particularly on the quality issue
                                      that
                                      > seems to be a rather hot topic at the moment. Believe me, I would be
                                      > moaning along with the rest of you if I thought otherwise.
                                      > Here are a few simple questions for you gurus out there and a
                                      vaguely
                                      > amusing tale of me trying to kill myself after a series of
                                      unfortunate
                                      > circumstances.
                                      >
                                      > 1) I can't reach the trim loop whilst under way – urgently or
                                      otherwise.
                                      > Presumably I just need to shorten all of the leaders until I can
                                      reach
                                      > it. That provided some minutes of amusement for the onlookers.
                                      >
                                      > 2) When fully depowered (trim right in and lines on long at
                                      front and
                                      > short at back knots) the kite is extremely eager (i.e. seems
                                      impossible
                                      > to actually prevent) to take off from the water. What's the easiest
                                      way
                                      > of killing the whole thing controllably? I don't want to throw away
                                      the
                                      > bar `cos my lines always seem to get tangled. Flying to the edge of
                                      the
                                      > window is the obvious choice, but that assumes I'm not just
                                      recovering
                                      > from my last ditching which inevitably leaves the kite well in the
                                      power
                                      > zone (usually leaping into the sky just as I get my head above the
                                      water
                                      > again). Slam, glug, slam, glug, etc. You get the picture :-) Is this
                                      > just because it's fully depowered, or my incompetence?
                                      >
                                      > 3) These board leash things, how long do people recon they
                                      should be? My
                                      > board is quite short, does this mean I can get away with less leash
                                      and
                                      > therefore less chance of the damn thing getting wrapped around my
                                      legs?
                                      > I'm not confident enough to contemplate binning the leash unless I'm
                                      > wearing a pair of fins (but then again, see below...).
                                      >
                                      > 4) Assuming I'm taking a course to my right, any comments on
                                      which foot
                                      > I should put in the loops first?
                                      >
                                      > 5) Do people tend to park things like BTs at the top and then
                                      put their
                                      > board on, or dump the kite, get in the board and then relaunch?
                                      >
                                      > So you probably get the idea that I'm a bit incompetent, but eager
                                      to
                                      > learn. Learn I did, and hopefully someone else can learn the easy
                                      way
                                      > too.
                                      >
                                      > The dodgy scenario…
                                      >
                                      > Wind gusting to 22/23mph from 18 (measured on trusty paragliding
                                      wind
                                      > meter). Rigged BT fully depowered then spent about 2hrs body
                                      dragging,
                                      > including almost managing to get upwind. VERY IMPRESSED with kite.
                                      I'm
                                      > using the chicken loop (first thing I did was take the full-power
                                      one
                                      > off the bar). So I went and got the board.
                                      > Still having severe probs in the gusts trying to get feet in the
                                      loops
                                      > and the board facing the right way. Kite control seems fine, in
                                      that I
                                      > can keep the kite at the top of the window in the centre, but my
                                      timing
                                      > sucks and I keep powering up slightly – enough to spin me round.
                                      > Eventually get up on board and off I go for all of 10ft. I come off
                                      and
                                      > in the usual submarine escapade manage to spin round. Kite still
                                      flying,
                                      > leash now beautifully wrapped round both legs. Controlling the kite
                                      gets
                                      > a bit trickier as I can't get my feet down to get any leverage on
                                      the
                                      > bar. That's when I get the full slam/glug/slam/glug experience. By
                                      the
                                      > time I sort myself out and get the leash off my legs I have gone
                                      > downwind further than I should have and there is a nasty 100'
                                      > cliff-thing on my left, about 100yds away. Brain says "keep going
                                      > downwind and get in the next bay", which is only about another
                                      100yds.
                                      > Kite is now sitting in the water a bit further back in the zone
                                      than I
                                      > would really like, bouncing up and down in "I'm gonna launch when
                                      you're
                                      > not looking" mode. About ½ sec later, off we go again.
                                      > At this point I am very aware of how close the cliff face is.
                                      > Unfortunately, my board had managed to sail downwind right in front
                                      of
                                      > me and wedged absolutely perfectly across AND between all 4 lines
                                      (bet
                                      > you can't do that!). Up goes the kite under full power and I can't
                                      > depower it – the board jams the whole thing up solid. I am now well
                                      > clear of the water. Buggy training comes to the fore and haul back
                                      and
                                      > unhook letting the bar get torn out of my hands. Problem over? I
                                      think
                                      > not. Bar whips out and locks perfectly in full power flying position
                                      > courtesy of the board. I am now gaining altitude and very aware of
                                      the
                                      > cliffs. The leash (which I am now dangling from) is now forcing in a
                                      > gentle left turn – exactly what I don't want. Impact in not very
                                      many
                                      > seconds should be absolutely parallel with the cliff. A few
                                      thoughts run
                                      > through my mind at this point: "lucky I'm wearing that new canoeing
                                      > helmet", "pity it won't make much of a difference", "maybe I should
                                      have
                                      > sprung for an impact vest", "boy this will hurt", "wonder which
                                      hospital
                                      > is nearest", "why isn't the kite depowering like it should", "would
                                      you
                                      > look at that board wedged perfectly across the lines", "nice the
                                      way the
                                      > fading sun catches the kite", etc. The leash is the only thing
                                      holding
                                      > me to the kite, so I casually (not!) undo the Velcro and plummet
                                      into
                                      > the water. Never have I been happier to hear the sound of ripping
                                      > velcro. Kite lands about a foot short of the nasty rocks. Swim in
                                      with
                                      > board and retrieve all the bits, mercifully undamaged. Then I went
                                      home
                                      > shaking my head.
                                      > Feel free to comment. I can hear John, Colin and Steve laughing from
                                      > here.
                                      > Methinks I need some more practice…
                                      >
                                      > Iain Drummond
                                      > Programme Manager
                                      > Memex Technology Ltd
                                      > iain.drummond@m...
                                      > 013552 33804 - www.memex.com
                                    • Iain Drummond
                                      The concensus seems to be split between those that sympathise and those that think I m a liability. Nothing new there! Thanks to all those who posted their
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Nov 9, 2001
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                                        The concensus seems to be split between those that sympathise and those
                                        that think I'm a liability.

                                        Nothing new there!

                                        Thanks to all those who posted their advice, all of which looks sane and
                                        reasonable.

                                        Anyone know of any kitesurfing instructors in Scotland?
                                      • ichiman1@yahoo.com
                                        Sounds like an average day of kitesurfing to me... Is there any other way to kitesurf??
                                        Message 19 of 19 , Dec 1, 2001
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                                          Sounds like an average day of kitesurfing to me...
                                          Is there any other way to kitesurf??
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