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[ksurf] Re: Proposed kitesurfing rules

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  • Ken Winner
    From: Hung Vu
    Message 1 of 5 , Aug 1, 1999
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      From: Hung Vu <hungvu@...
      > I have set up a new page on my web site to propose a set of kitesurfing
      > rules to let other water users to know what to do when we are
      > approaching each other on the water. If we all agree on this set of
      > rules, we can effectively share the same water space with other
      > water-crafts and among ourselves.

      Start with the maritime rules of the road. These apply to all watercraft and
      should be understood by all watercraft.

      I don't believe the maritime rules say anything about two boat lengths, and
      the yacht racing rules use two boat lengths only with repect to gaining
      rights when rounding a mark of the course. In other words, ditch reference
      to two boat lengths.

      The rules should not codify permissiveness regarding flying a kite over
      another craft (ie., all that talk about flying different heights above
      various craft). It should be understood that flying a kite over someone is
      dangerous and that if your kite hits a right-of-way craft, you are at fault.

      The first and third of your "common sense rules" can be found in the
      maritime rules. The second is, I think, a mistake. We don't want novices to
      get the idea it's the responsibility of others to keep clear (though, of
      course, others will, as per rule number one). It's the resposibility of the
      novice to do his learning where he won't bother others.

      The yacht racing rules apply only to sailing craft engaged in a race. They
      are generally not applicable to craft that are not racing. Anyway, isn't it
      best best to leave racing rules up to the racers?

      The wave rules look abreviated but fine as far as they go. More clarity on
      wave ownership may be called for.

      Keep in mind that virtually no recreational kiteboarder will read, much less
      learn, the rules if they number more than about two or three. At that number
      maybe a third of kiteboarders will learn them.

      Bottom line: Except for wave sailing and racing -- special circumstances --
      the existing maritime rules of the road and every person's sense of
      self-preservation are all we need.

      Ken Winner
    • Hung Vu
      ... Thanks for the reminder Ken. I agree that the two hull length is only used in yatch racing; however, they are used more often than in just when rounding a
      Message 2 of 5 , Aug 1, 1999
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        > I don't believe the maritime rules say anything about two boat lengths, and
        > the yacht racing rules use two boat lengths only with repect to gaining
        > rights when rounding a mark of the course. In other words, ditch reference
        > to two boat lengths.

        Thanks for the reminder Ken. I agree that the two hull length is only
        used in yatch racing; however, they are used more often than in just
        when rounding a mark of the course. In any cases, I think two hull
        length is a good distance to keep clear of the other boat.

        > The rules should not codify permissiveness regarding flying a kite over
        > another craft (ie., all that talk about flying different heights above
        > various craft). It should be understood that flying a kite over someone is
        > dangerous and that if your kite hits a right-of-way craft, you are at fault.

        I think this is easy for a kitesurfer to understand; however, it is VERY
        HARD to for non-kitesurfers to understand that they have to keep clear
        of a "kitesurfing vessel" of 50 m in width.

        > The first and third of your "common sense rules" can be found in the
        > maritime rules. The second is, I think, a mistake. We don't want novices to
        > get the idea it's the responsibility of others to keep clear (though, of
        > course, others will, as per rule number one). It's the resposibility of the
        > novice to do his learning where he won't bother others.

        I put it there on purpose because I have seen an experienced boater
        injured (almost killed) an inexperienced one because he THINKED he had
        the right of way.

        > The wave rules look abreviated but fine as far as they go. More clarity on
        > wave ownership may be called for.

        Ken, How would we clarify this?

        > Keep in mind that virtually no recreational kiteboarder will read, much less
        > learn, the rules if they number more than about two or three. At that number
        > maybe a third of kiteboarders will learn them.
        >
        > Bottom line: Except for wave sailing and racing -- special circumstances --
        > the existing maritime rules of the road and every person's sense of
        > self-preservation are all we need.

        The problem is with non-kitesurfers. They DO NOT know how to deal with
        us.

        Hung.
      • Raul F Argilagos
        ... I kitesurf in Miami FL which I is undeniably guarranteed the most heavily boat-trafficked place on the face of the earth, and these people simply DO NOT
        Message 3 of 5 , Aug 2, 1999
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          >VERY
          >HARD to for non-kitesurfers to understand that they have to keep clear
          >of a "kitesurfing vessel" of 50 m in width.
          >
          >
          >
          >The problem is with non-kitesurfers. They DO NOT know how to deal
          >with
          >us.
          >
          >Hung.
          >
          I kitesurf in Miami FL which I is undeniably guarranteed the most
          heavily boat-trafficked place on the face of the earth, and these
          people simply DO NOT understand what is going on here! I
          wonder if their brains just shut down or something when they
          see me kitesurfing out there. It HAS TO BE YOU that takes
          responsibility out there on the water and take action to avoid
          any collisions. Those goo-brained boaters certainly don't
          know any better than to stand with their jaws gapping open.
          My 2 cents next time I see another luxury yacht bearing down
          on me at 25kts!
          Raul

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        • Hung Vu
          ... I had the same problem kitesurfing on my tiny lake. So far I has taken all the actions to avoid any collision. However, being on a tiny lake, the
          Message 4 of 5 , Aug 2, 1999
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            > I kitesurf in Miami FL which I is undeniably guarranteed the most
            > heavily boat-trafficked place on the face of the earth, and these
            > people simply DO NOT understand what is going on here! I
            > wonder if their brains just shut down or something when they
            > see me kitesurfing out there. It HAS TO BE YOU that takes
            > responsibility out there on the water and take action to avoid
            > any collisions. Those goo-brained boaters certainly don't
            > know any better than to stand with their jaws gapping open.
            > My 2 cents next time I see another luxury yacht bearing down
            > on me at 25kts!

            I had the same problem kitesurfing on my "tiny" lake. So far I has
            taken all the actions to avoid any collision. However, being on a
            "tiny" lake, the local boaters/windsurfers are more "space conscious",
            more "well trained" and a number of them has asked me whether the
            traditional sailing rules are applicable for kitesurfing and how?

            They want to know the "rules" to be "in control" of the situation.

            I guess they deserve a more "well thought out" answers than just "trust
            me! I will try to avoid you at all cost" or "don't worry! I am the only
            kitesurfer around here".

            Hung.
          • Peter A. Traykovski
            ... Every person s sense of self-preservation may be all we need, but some people just don t see an obvious danger. Yesterday while doing a downwinder (the
            Message 5 of 5 , Aug 2, 1999
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              Ken Winner wrote:

              > From: Hung Vu <hungvu@...
              > > I have set up a new page on my web site to propose a set of kitesurfing
              > > rules to let other water users to know what to do when we are
              > > approaching each other on the water. If we all agree on this set of
              > > rules, we can effectively share the same water space with other
              > > water-crafts and among ourselves.
              >
              > Start with the maritime rules of the road. These apply to all watercraft and
              > should be understood by all watercraft.
              >
              > Bottom line: Except for wave sailing and racing -- special circumstances --
              > the existing maritime rules of the road and every person's sense of
              > self-preservation are all we need.

              Every person's sense of self-preservation may be all we need, but some people
              just don't see an obvious danger. Yesterday while doing a downwinder (the only
              kind of kitesurfing I know how to do!) in buzzards bay, ma (a fairly busy body
              of water) I had a power boat pull in parallel to watch what I was doing and
              where did he pull in...you guessed it about 30m downwind of me right under my
              kite. Since I'm a begginer and not in 100% control at all time I figured as
              long as I am going he will continue to watch and stay there, so I lay down
              backwards and let the kite fly overhead till they lost interest and went away.

              I think rules are good, but because we are such strange craft, and no one reads,
              knows, or obeys the rules anyway, we need to be really, really carefull to
              avoid dangerous situations for ourselves and just as importantly for others.
              This means picking your lauching and landing sites with extreme care and
              avoiding situations on the water.
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