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Re: [ksurf] How to untangle kite lines?

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  • DaveTerry@c4image.com
    From Dave Terry- Maui, How to untangle lines... First of all, 1- never let the lines get pulled tight after you get slack in them. This creates knots. If you
    Message 1 of 12 , Oct 1, 2001
      From Dave Terry- Maui,
      How to untangle lines...

      First of all,
      1- never let the lines get pulled tight after you get slack in them. This
      creates knots. If you have knots get a pin and pull them out if they are
      really tight. Try very hard not to cut those little threads..
      2-If using four line kite, see if you can keep the lines attached and pull
      out the bar away from the kite to pull tension on the lines..But not so
      much tension you pull tight.. Remember 1.
      3- tie the bar onto something, or get a girfriend(boyfriend) to hold the bar..
      4- Use the Dave Dorne(Action Sports Instructor on Maui) finger method of
      separation..the four spaces between your fingers each hold a line and
      seperate the appropriate lines at the bar.
      5-What I do is a bit different. I put the outside lines on the outside of
      my legs and the two inside lines between my legs..
      6-Now, the free hand is used to stretch out(pull away from you, or loosen)
      the lenght of lines just in front of you. The key is to seperate the turns
      long before you get to the tangles. Pull all the bends and turns and
      seaweed and loops away from each other. In other words,you want to loosen
      all the potential knots and let the lines become very loose.
      7- Now, begin slowing walking away from the secured bar as you separate.
      Eventually, you will get to a point where knots begin to form from the
      tension. You will have loosened the lines and their lengths will vary.
      8- This is the key...Now, when you see the knots are tightening, go distal
      from your secured end and out to the other end where all the loose lines
      are unattached. Hold all the ends together and shake some tension into the
      entire length. What you want to do is loosen all the potential loops and
      binds in the lines. Pull tension and shake while letting the lines loosen.
      There may be one area which is a problem and you'll need to go back to this
      and shake and loose.
      9-Finally, go back to the attached point and pull one of the outside lines
      away from the entire mess. This may require you to unhook the end from the
      mess, but if it's all loose, this is not a problem.
      10- last.. pull out the other outside line and the rest is basic.

      I've had lines in a ball with sticks and driftwood well attached to the
      mess. I've wanted to just hang it all on my wall as an artpiece! But using
      the above method, it's never taken more than fifteen minutes to work out.
      The biggest point is the gentle separation of all the potential knots,
      having the bar attached to a static point and pulling out one line first.


      This line problem is something I'm working on right now and it's my
      feeling, one day, we will no longer use the lines..They're a pain.

      Oh..yea..one other thing.."You gotta love this sport!"


      At 6:26 AM 10/1/01, dfolk wrote:
      >One line at a time.
      >Take a line off at one end and start winding onto a line winder. Pass the
      >line winder through all the loops and tangles to free the line and wind up
      >the freed line as you go.
      >It's slow but reliable.
      >
      >Dave
      >
      >
      >
      >> the straight forward way is to take 1 line at a time and untangle that
      >one...
      >>
      >> its not the fastest way (there are other tricks to go faster) but it
      >ALWAYS
      >> works.. (the other tricks might just waste time if applied incorrectly)
      >>
      >> Chris Glazier wrote:
      >>
      >> > Yesterday a newbie came in with a big mass of tangled lines. I
      >> > explained that he should just sit down, relax, and calmly untangle
      >> > it. But when I returned 2 hours later he still hadn't finished. I
      >> > have some experience in this :-) and it shouldn't have taken that
      >> > long.
      >> >
      >> > So next time, what tips can I give on untangling technique . I can't
      >> > really explain how I do it. Does anyone have a systematic approach
      >> > that works.. and that you can put into words?
      >> >
      >> > Chris G
      >> >
      >> > PS. This was 4 lines of common Naish/Wipika braided spectra line.
      >> > (And I know that Q powerline is less prone to tangle.)
      >> >
      >> > Support your local kitesurf association !
      >> >
      >> > <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>
      >> >
      >> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
      >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >>
      >>
      >> Support your local kitesurf association !
      >>
      >>
      >> <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>
      >>
      >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >
      >
      >Support your local kitesurf association !
      >
      >
      ><<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>
      >
      >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

      Dave Terry@...
      POB 321
      Haiku, Hi. 96708
      phonefax-808-573-9120
    • Kitepower
      G day Dave One day you will learn good line management and you will grow to love your lines. If you eliminate the lines then you are no longer kiting. Get
      Message 2 of 12 , Oct 1, 2001
        G'day Dave

        One day you will learn good line management and you will grow to love your
        lines. If you eliminate the lines then you are no longer kiting.
        Get yourself some Q-Power line or Flexifoil Hydro line and most of your
        troubles will disappear anyway.
        Most of us know about that other watersport with the stick and the sail!!
        ;-)

        Cya and
        Goodwinds
        Steve McCormack
        http://www.kitepower.com.au
        mailto:sydney@...
        126 Beach St, Coogee, NSW, Australia 2034
        Open 7 Days 9.30 - 5.30
        Also at 386 Latrobe Terrace Geelong Vic
        mailto:geelong@...

        -----Original Message-----
        From: DaveTerry@... [mailto:DaveTerry@...]
        Sent: Tuesday, 2 October 2001 5:07
        To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [ksurf] How to untangle kite lines?


        From Dave Terry- Maui,
        How to untangle lines...

        First of all,
        1- never let the lines get pulled tight after you get slack in them. This
        creates knots. If you have knots get a pin and pull them out if they are
        really tight. Try very hard not to cut those little threads..
        2-If using four line kite, see if you can keep the lines attached and pull
        out the bar away from the kite to pull tension on the lines..But not so
        much tension you pull tight.. Remember 1.
        3- tie the bar onto something, or get a girfriend(boyfriend) to hold the
        bar..
        4- Use the Dave Dorne(Action Sports Instructor on Maui) finger method of
        separation..the four spaces between your fingers each hold a line and
        seperate the appropriate lines at the bar.
        5-What I do is a bit different. I put the outside lines on the outside of
        my legs and the two inside lines between my legs..
        6-Now, the free hand is used to stretch out(pull away from you, or loosen)
        the lenght of lines just in front of you. The key is to seperate the turns
        long before you get to the tangles. Pull all the bends and turns and
        seaweed and loops away from each other. In other words,you want to loosen
        all the potential knots and let the lines become very loose.
        7- Now, begin slowing walking away from the secured bar as you separate.
        Eventually, you will get to a point where knots begin to form from the
        tension. You will have loosened the lines and their lengths will vary.
        8- This is the key...Now, when you see the knots are tightening, go distal
        from your secured end and out to the other end where all the loose lines
        are unattached. Hold all the ends together and shake some tension into the
        entire length. What you want to do is loosen all the potential loops and
        binds in the lines. Pull tension and shake while letting the lines loosen.
        There may be one area which is a problem and you'll need to go back to this
        and shake and loose.
        9-Finally, go back to the attached point and pull one of the outside lines
        away from the entire mess. This may require you to unhook the end from the
        mess, but if it's all loose, this is not a problem.
        10- last.. pull out the other outside line and the rest is basic.

        I've had lines in a ball with sticks and driftwood well attached to the
        mess. I've wanted to just hang it all on my wall as an artpiece! But using
        the above method, it's never taken more than fifteen minutes to work out.
        The biggest point is the gentle separation of all the potential knots,
        having the bar attached to a static point and pulling out one line first.


        This line problem is something I'm working on right now and it's my
        feeling, one day, we will no longer use the lines..They're a pain.

        Oh..yea..one other thing.."You gotta love this sport!"


        At 6:26 AM 10/1/01, dfolk wrote:
        >One line at a time.
        >Take a line off at one end and start winding onto a line winder. Pass the
        >line winder through all the loops and tangles to free the line and wind up
        >the freed line as you go.
        >It's slow but reliable.
        >
        >Dave
        >
        >
        >
        >> the straight forward way is to take 1 line at a time and untangle that
        >one...
        >>
        >> its not the fastest way (there are other tricks to go faster) but it
        >ALWAYS
        >> works.. (the other tricks might just waste time if applied incorrectly)
        >>
        >> Chris Glazier wrote:
        >>
        >> > Yesterday a newbie came in with a big mass of tangled lines. I
        >> > explained that he should just sit down, relax, and calmly untangle
        >> > it. But when I returned 2 hours later he still hadn't finished. I
        >> > have some experience in this :-) and it shouldn't have taken that
        >> > long.
        >> >
        >> > So next time, what tips can I give on untangling technique . I can't
        >> > really explain how I do it. Does anyone have a systematic approach
        >> > that works.. and that you can put into words?
        >> >
        >> > Chris G
        >> >
        >> > PS. This was 4 lines of common Naish/Wipika braided spectra line.
        >> > (And I know that Q powerline is less prone to tangle.)
        >> >
        >> > Support your local kitesurf association !
        >> >
        >> > <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>
        >> >
        >> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
        >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >>
        >>
        >> Support your local kitesurf association !
        >>
        >>
        >> <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>
        >>
        >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >
        >
        >Support your local kitesurf association !
        >
        >
        ><<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>
        >
        >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

        Dave Terry@...
        POB 321
        Haiku, Hi. 96708
        phonefax-808-573-9120




        Support your local kitesurf association !


        <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>

        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      • Robin Zwissler
        It took me 4 years to develop the following easiest way to untangle lines, patent pending: 1.) Be a pain in the ass to your environment (girl-friend) when
        Message 3 of 12 , Oct 1, 2001
          It took me 4 years to develop the following easiest way to untangle
          lines,
          patent pending:

          1.) Be a pain in the ass to your environment (girl-friend)
          when there is no wind and you can't go out
          2.) Get nervous and excited when the first signs of wind show up
          3.) Being so nervous and excited it is likely to get tangles in the
          lines
          4.) Try to get the tangles out by yourself
          5.) Being so nervous and excited it is likely to get even more tangles
          6.) Curse anything and anyone around
          7.) Look like a baby that is before crying
          8.) Wait for your girl-friend to help
          9.) Wait until girl-friend untangled the lines and get a launch from her

          Thanks, Alexa, for being over 4 years my kite assistant! True love... :)


          Robin
          http://www.kite-surf.com
        • Ron Seydler
          Another cool idea that Alex put me onto is when you detach the lines from your kite hook them onto a little peice of dowel in the correct order... Makes
          Message 4 of 12 , Oct 1, 2001
            Another cool idea that Alex put me onto is when you detach the lines from
            your kite hook them onto a little peice of dowel in the correct order...
            Makes unwinding and sorting a heap quicker... The only way to get messy then
            is if the lines come off the bar incorrectly during an unwind.

            Ron

            -----Original Message-----
            From: janwcoffey@... [mailto:janwcoffey@...]
            Sent: Tuesday, 2 October 2001 4:15 PM
            To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [ksurf] How to untangle kite lines?



            I found that the #1 reason that lines get tangled is they fall off the
            bar ends into a mess.

            To avoid this you can either wind around the bar in a figure 8
            instead of winding on the ends. This takes more time, but is much less
            prone to slipping off.

            What I do is take velcro straps with me, and wrapp them around the
            lines and bar. I use the ends but still wrap in a figure 8. The straps
            hold the lines on nicely. I first started doing this when I had a
            Naish bar. With that bar it was the only way to keep the lines on. I
            got a LOT of practice untangleing before I got the straps.

            I use the straps around my ankles to keep the water from
            collecting in my wetsuit legs when I am not using my wakeboard.

            I also sometimes hook the free loop ends of the lines through my kite
            leash attachment as I take them off the kite. This way even if the
            lines do slip off I know that they are just twisted or looped back on
            themselves.

            Some people I see seem to just never have these sorts of problems.


            Support your local kitesurf association !


            <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>

            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          • Roland Andrag
            Very true post Jan... Basically if you are winding lines not using a fiure of eight, you are putting a twist in the lines every time you go round. These twists
            Message 5 of 12 , Oct 2, 2001
              Very true post Jan...

              Basically if you are winding lines not using a fiure of eight, you are
              putting a twist in the lines every time you go round. These twists cause a
              tangle if you don't remove the lines the same way you put them on. Winding
              figure-eight does not have this problem (since you wind in half a twist and
              then wind it straight out again), and thus is a much better method (also
              when winding electric cable by the way). It is also as fast with a little
              practise.

              About velcro to secure the lines after winding, you can use the cleat lock
              tuck at the end, by simply throwing the last few loops of line over one end
              of the bar. This page shows it being done alternately at the top and bottom
              of a cleat - on a kite bar do it two to four times on the SAME end, and your
              lines will stay put - no velcro required.

              http://www.marinews.com/Rope%20Knots/bk_cleatwi.htm

              The Airblast video has a shot of someone locking his lines like this - you
              can do it very quickly once you have the motion down.

              I think for real tangles on average the fastest untangling method is to
              remove/seperate one line at a time. Sometimes you might get it done real
              quickly if you don't (by just removing loops), but most of the time you are
              not going to be that lucky..

              Roland

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: <janwcoffey@...>
              To: <kitesurf@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 8:14 AM
              Subject: Re: [ksurf] How to untangle kite lines?


              >
              > I found that the #1 reason that lines get tangled is they fall off the
              > bar ends into a mess.
              >
              > To avoid this you can either wind around the bar in a figure 8
              > instead of winding on the ends. This takes more time, but is much less
              > prone to slipping off.
              >
              > What I do is take velcro straps with me, and wrapp them around the
              > lines and bar. I use the ends but still wrap in a figure 8. The straps
              > hold the lines on nicely. I first started doing this when I had a
              > Naish bar. With that bar it was the only way to keep the lines on. I
              > got a LOT of practice untangleing before I got the straps.
              >
              > I use the straps around my ankles to keep the water from
              > collecting in my wetsuit legs when I am not using my wakeboard.
              >
              > I also sometimes hook the free loop ends of the lines through my kite
              > leash attachment as I take them off the kite. This way even if the
              > lines do slip off I know that they are just twisted or looped back on
              > themselves.
              >
              > Some people I see seem to just never have these sorts of problems.
              >
              >
              > Support your local kitesurf association !
              >
              >
              > <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >
            • Mel
              ... As mentioned, Q-Power lines help with that a LOT (& also with UNtangling). ... As Jan mentioned, always wind in a figure 8 pattern. That way they can only
              Message 6 of 12 , Oct 2, 2001
                <alan.linsley@...> wrote:

                > The key to untangling lines is, of course, not to let them tangle in the
                > first place.

                As mentioned, Q-Power lines help with that a LOT (& also with UNtangling).

                > Yesterday's mess came about when a bunch of loops slipped of the end of my
                > Airush bar. ... Anybody have
                > any tips?

                As Jan mentioned, always wind in a figure 8 pattern. That way they can only
                come off in complete, parallel 4-line units. I find it takes LESS time,
                since each wrap takes up a little more line.

                You don't need to carry a Velcro strap. Jan uses the straps off his
                wetsuit, I use the Velcro that's already on my gloves (it makes a handy
                place to store them anyway) but even if you have neither of those, at the
                end, when there's only a few feet of free line left, just wrap the lines
                themselves around the bar a few turns to keep it on. I just read Roland's
                post about the "cleat lock tuck", & that seems like a great idea too.

                It also helps prevent slipping off the end if you use bigger knobs, on
                longer stems, or better yet switch to TinMan winders (see the group files).
                I recently made a set, & they hold a surprisingly huge amount of line, with
                far less tendency to slip off. While I cut the end opening small (figuring
                I could always enlarge it later), next time I'll just make them a half
                circle, since that will make it even easier to wind them on, yet will still
                allow plenty of space, & should still keep the lines on far better than any
                other winder I've ever used.

                Mel
              • petew@tpg.com.au
                One other thing that I havent seen mentioned and I learned on my first and only (so far) day, - prepare/check the lines so that you wont get tangled when water
                Message 7 of 12 , Oct 3, 2001
                  One other thing that I havent seen mentioned and I learned on my
                  first and only (so far) day,
                  - prepare/check the lines so that you wont get tangled when water
                  lanching your kite. The consequences could have been severe: but I
                  guess I was real lucky (I got a scratch on my finger).


                  --- In kitesurf@y..., "Kitepower" <kitepower@b...> wrote:
                  > G'day Dave
                  >
                  > One day you will learn good line management and you will grow to
                  love your
                  > lines. If you eliminate the lines then you are no longer kiting.
                  > Get yourself some Q-Power line or Flexifoil Hydro line and most of
                  your
                  > troubles will disappear anyway.
                  > Most of us know about that other watersport with the stick and the
                  sail!!
                  > ;-)
                  >
                  > Cya and
                  > Goodwinds
                  > Steve McCormack
                  > http://www.kitepower.com.au
                  > mailto:sydney@k...
                  > 126 Beach St, Coogee, NSW, Australia 2034
                  > Open 7 Days 9.30 - 5.30
                  > Also at 386 Latrobe Terrace Geelong Vic
                  > mailto:geelong@k...
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: DaveTerry@c... [mailto:DaveTerry@c...]
                  > Sent: Tuesday, 2 October 2001 5:07
                  > To: kitesurf@y...
                  > Subject: Re: [ksurf] How to untangle kite lines?
                  >
                  >
                  > From Dave Terry- Maui,
                  > How to untangle lines...
                  >
                  > First of all,
                  > 1- never let the lines get pulled tight after you get slack in
                  them. This
                  > creates knots. If you have knots get a pin and pull them out if
                  they are
                  > really tight. Try very hard not to cut those little threads..
                  > 2-If using four line kite, see if you can keep the lines attached
                  and pull
                  > out the bar away from the kite to pull tension on the lines..But
                  not so
                  > much tension you pull tight.. Remember 1.
                  > 3- tie the bar onto something, or get a girfriend(boyfriend) to
                  hold the
                  > bar..
                  > 4- Use the Dave Dorne(Action Sports Instructor on Maui) finger
                  method of
                  > separation..the four spaces between your fingers each hold a line
                  and
                  > seperate the appropriate lines at the bar.
                  > 5-What I do is a bit different. I put the outside lines on the
                  outside of
                  > my legs and the two inside lines between my legs..
                  > 6-Now, the free hand is used to stretch out(pull away from you, or
                  loosen)
                  > the lenght of lines just in front of you. The key is to seperate
                  the turns
                  > long before you get to the tangles. Pull all the bends and turns and
                  > seaweed and loops away from each other. In other words,you want to
                  loosen
                  > all the potential knots and let the lines become very loose.
                  > 7- Now, begin slowing walking away from the secured bar as you
                  separate.
                  > Eventually, you will get to a point where knots begin to form from
                  the
                  > tension. You will have loosened the lines and their lengths will
                  vary.
                  > 8- This is the key...Now, when you see the knots are tightening, go
                  distal
                  > from your secured end and out to the other end where all the loose
                  lines
                  > are unattached. Hold all the ends together and shake some tension
                  into the
                  > entire length. What you want to do is loosen all the potential
                  loops and
                  > binds in the lines. Pull tension and shake while letting the lines
                  loosen.
                  > There may be one area which is a problem and you'll need to go back
                  to this
                  > and shake and loose.
                  > 9-Finally, go back to the attached point and pull one of the
                  outside lines
                  > away from the entire mess. This may require you to unhook the end
                  from the
                  > mess, but if it's all loose, this is not a problem.
                  > 10- last.. pull out the other outside line and the rest is basic.
                  >
                  > I've had lines in a ball with sticks and driftwood well attached to
                  the
                  > mess. I've wanted to just hang it all on my wall as an artpiece!
                  But using
                  > the above method, it's never taken more than fifteen minutes to
                  work out.
                  > The biggest point is the gentle separation of all the potential
                  knots,
                  > having the bar attached to a static point and pulling out one line
                  first.
                  >
                  >
                  > This line problem is something I'm working on right now and it's my
                  > feeling, one day, we will no longer use the lines..They're a pain.
                  >
                  > Oh..yea..one other thing.."You gotta love this sport!"
                  >
                  >
                  > At 6:26 AM 10/1/01, dfolk wrote:
                  > >One line at a time.
                  > >Take a line off at one end and start winding onto a line winder.
                  Pass the
                  > >line winder through all the loops and tangles to free the line and
                  wind up
                  > >the freed line as you go.
                  > >It's slow but reliable.
                  > >
                  > >Dave
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >> the straight forward way is to take 1 line at a time and
                  untangle that
                  > >one...
                  > >>
                  > >> its not the fastest way (there are other tricks to go faster)
                  but it
                  > >ALWAYS
                  > >> works.. (the other tricks might just waste time if applied
                  incorrectly)
                  > >>
                  > >> Chris Glazier wrote:
                  > >>
                  > >> > Yesterday a newbie came in with a big mass of tangled lines. I
                  > >> > explained that he should just sit down, relax, and calmly
                  untangle
                  > >> > it. But when I returned 2 hours later he still hadn't
                  finished. I
                  > >> > have some experience in this :-) and it shouldn't have taken
                  that
                  > >> > long.
                  > >> >
                  > >> > So next time, what tips can I give on untangling technique .
                  I can't
                  > >> > really explain how I do it. Does anyone have a systematic
                  approach
                  > >> > that works.. and that you can put into words?
                  > >> >
                  > >> > Chris G
                  > >> >
                  > >> > PS. This was 4 lines of common Naish/Wipika braided spectra
                  line.
                  > >> > (And I know that Q powerline is less prone to tangle.)
                  > >> >
                  > >> > Support your local kitesurf association !
                  > >> >
                  > >> > <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-
                  unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>
                  > >> >
                  > >> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                  > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >> Support your local kitesurf association !
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >> <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-
                  unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>
                  > >>
                  > >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                  http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >Support your local kitesurf association !
                  > >
                  > >
                  > ><<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-
                  unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>
                  > >
                  > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                  http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  > Dave Terry@c...
                  > POB 321
                  > Haiku, Hi. 96708
                  > phonefax-808-573-9120
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Support your local kitesurf association !
                  >
                  >
                  > <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-
                  unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                  http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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