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Re: [ksurf] How to untangle kite lines?

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  • dfolk
    One line at a time. Take a line off at one end and start winding onto a line winder. Pass the line winder through all the loops and tangles to free the line
    Message 1 of 12 , Sep 30, 2001
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      One line at a time.
      Take a line off at one end and start winding onto a line winder. Pass the
      line winder through all the loops and tangles to free the line and wind up
      the freed line as you go.
      It's slow but reliable.

      Dave



      > the straight forward way is to take 1 line at a time and untangle that
      one...
      >
      > its not the fastest way (there are other tricks to go faster) but it
      ALWAYS
      > works.. (the other tricks might just waste time if applied incorrectly)
      >
      > Chris Glazier wrote:
      >
      > > Yesterday a newbie came in with a big mass of tangled lines. I
      > > explained that he should just sit down, relax, and calmly untangle
      > > it. But when I returned 2 hours later he still hadn't finished. I
      > > have some experience in this :-) and it shouldn't have taken that
      > > long.
      > >
      > > So next time, what tips can I give on untangling technique . I can't
      > > really explain how I do it. Does anyone have a systematic approach
      > > that works.. and that you can put into words?
      > >
      > > Chris G
      > >
      > > PS. This was 4 lines of common Naish/Wipika braided spectra line.
      > > (And I know that Q powerline is less prone to tangle.)
      > >
      > > Support your local kitesurf association !
      > >
      > > <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>
      > >
      > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
      http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >
      > Support your local kitesurf association !
      >
      >
      > <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >
      >
    • Mel
      ... I agree with Stefano: there are tricks that don t always work & are hard to put into words (like looking for loops that can be pulled out), & one line at
      Message 2 of 12 , Oct 1, 2001
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        Chris Glazier <cglazier@...> wrote:

        > Does anyone have a systematic approach
        > that works.. and that you can put into words?

        I agree with Stefano: there are tricks that don't always work & are hard to
        put into words (like looking for "loops" that can be pulled out), & one line
        at a time always works. Get (or make) four line winders (like what they
        come on when you buy them). Start at the free end of each line, & wrap as
        much as you can. Then take one winder & feed it through the mess as you
        keep winding line on. Sometimes it helps to stop part way & start on the
        next one before the first one is finished. Once you've done one or two, the
        rest is MUCH easier.

        > (And I know that Q powerline is less prone to tangle.)

        AND less difficult to UNtangle too. I recently got what would have been a
        "3-hour" tangle in "stock" line*, but it only took one hour to fix with my
        Qs.

        *It took 30 knots to finally overpower me on my wedged 840 at 63kg, but
        after releasing the kite to the leash, I pulled in to it & rolled it up
        before the lines, because I was drifting towards the rocks.

        Mel
      • Stefano Rosso
        ... and i agree with the above too ! ... What board are you riding to hold that much ? at 25+ with my 78 kg on a litewave 169 i am VERY wound up already... NOT
        Message 3 of 12 , Oct 1, 2001
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          >
          > I agree with Stefano: there are tricks that don't always work & are hard to
          > put into words (like looking for "loops" that can be pulled out), & one line
          > at a time always works. Get (or make) four line winders (like what they
          > come on when you buy them). Start at the free end of each line, & wrap as
          > much as you can. Then take one winder & feed it through the mess as you
          > keep winding line on. Sometimes it helps to stop part way & start on the
          > next one before the first one is finished. Once you've done one or two, the
          > rest is MUCH easier.
          >
          >

          and i agree with the above too !


          >
          > *It took 30 knots to finally overpower me on my wedged 840 at 63kg, but
          > after releasing the kite to the leash, I pulled in to it & rolled it up
          > before the lines, because I was drifting towards the rocks.

          What board are you riding to hold that much ? at 25+ with my 78 kg on a litewave
          169 i am VERY wound up already... NOT comfortable at all !
        • alan.linsley@ca.pwcglobal.com
          Chris, This is embarassing...That was me! Although it was frustrating, it was a good thing, because I was way out of my league with that kite (12m Rhino) and
          Message 4 of 12 , Oct 1, 2001
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            Chris,
            This is embarassing...That was me!
            Although it was frustrating, it was a good thing, because I was way out of
            my league with that kite (12m Rhino) and those conditions. So that Bird's
            nest probably kept me out of trouble.

            It seems that every new kite I have, regardless of stunt, trainer, or surf,
            the first time I use it, I try to be all clever with winding the lines, and
            always end up with a mess.

            Yesterday took a long time, partly because I spent a fair bit of time
            talking to people and helping others launch/relaunch (see my next message),
            and partly because I kept trying shortcuts that didn't work. I found that
            the following tips were the most successful,

            As I think you said, there are two ways to untangle lines - Scissors or
            Patience.
            The patience way works best if you try to keep the nest as loose as
            possible, and work on unlooping one line at a time (like Stepano
            Mentioned). I would work on one line for a while, get it free about 5m,
            and then work on another line.
            Once the lines got really long, I would use a winder to wind just one line,
            speeding things up a bit because I wouldn't have to pull 10m of line every
            time I unlooped.
            Good tips on keeping the nest loose - make sure you are pulling on a 'free'
            line only, if you accidentally start pulling on a line that goes into the
            mess, things go from bad to worse.
            Once the nest gets tight, get your fingers right into the depths of the
            mess, and pull apart. This helps a bit.
            I'm going to keep the winder from my slingshot trainer in my bag now, as it
            is smaller than the winder I was using. Smaller winders will fit through
            smaller loops.

            The key to untangling lines is, of course, not to let them tangle in the
            first place.

            Yesterday's mess came about when a bunch of loops slipped of the end of my
            Airush bar. I was in a rush when I wound the lines, and I'm thinking that
            I should have wound things up tighter. However, I'm finding that the
            leaders, the big pads on the airush back line leaders, and the Airush
            adjustment strap on the front line leader all take up too much room to
            include 80m (4x20m) of line on the bar, so now I'm wrapping up the leaders
            on the bar, and using the winders for the lines. It takes a little longer
            to set up, but it should save me from the problems I had yesterday. I
            think I'll try to make a longer winder to speed things up. Anybody have
            any tips?

            Thanks, and hopefully next time you see me, things will be better.

            Alan









            Chris Glazier
            <cglazier@hom To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
            e.com> cc:
            Subject: [ksurf] How to untangle kite lines?
            10/01/2001
            08:52 AM
            Please
            respond to
            kitesurf






            Yesterday a newbie came in with a big mass of tangled lines. I
            explained that he should just sit down, relax, and calmly untangle
            it. But when I returned 2 hours later he still hadn't finished. I
            have some experience in this :-) and it shouldn't have taken that
            long.

            So next time, what tips can I give on untangling technique . I can't
            really explain how I do it. Does anyone have a systematic approach
            that works.. and that you can put into words?

            Chris G

            PS. This was 4 lines of common Naish/Wipika braided spectra line.
            (And I know that Q powerline is less prone to tangle.)


            Support your local kitesurf association !


            <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>

            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




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          • DaveTerry@c4image.com
            From Dave Terry- Maui, How to untangle lines... First of all, 1- never let the lines get pulled tight after you get slack in them. This creates knots. If you
            Message 5 of 12 , Oct 1, 2001
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              From Dave Terry- Maui,
              How to untangle lines...

              First of all,
              1- never let the lines get pulled tight after you get slack in them. This
              creates knots. If you have knots get a pin and pull them out if they are
              really tight. Try very hard not to cut those little threads..
              2-If using four line kite, see if you can keep the lines attached and pull
              out the bar away from the kite to pull tension on the lines..But not so
              much tension you pull tight.. Remember 1.
              3- tie the bar onto something, or get a girfriend(boyfriend) to hold the bar..
              4- Use the Dave Dorne(Action Sports Instructor on Maui) finger method of
              separation..the four spaces between your fingers each hold a line and
              seperate the appropriate lines at the bar.
              5-What I do is a bit different. I put the outside lines on the outside of
              my legs and the two inside lines between my legs..
              6-Now, the free hand is used to stretch out(pull away from you, or loosen)
              the lenght of lines just in front of you. The key is to seperate the turns
              long before you get to the tangles. Pull all the bends and turns and
              seaweed and loops away from each other. In other words,you want to loosen
              all the potential knots and let the lines become very loose.
              7- Now, begin slowing walking away from the secured bar as you separate.
              Eventually, you will get to a point where knots begin to form from the
              tension. You will have loosened the lines and their lengths will vary.
              8- This is the key...Now, when you see the knots are tightening, go distal
              from your secured end and out to the other end where all the loose lines
              are unattached. Hold all the ends together and shake some tension into the
              entire length. What you want to do is loosen all the potential loops and
              binds in the lines. Pull tension and shake while letting the lines loosen.
              There may be one area which is a problem and you'll need to go back to this
              and shake and loose.
              9-Finally, go back to the attached point and pull one of the outside lines
              away from the entire mess. This may require you to unhook the end from the
              mess, but if it's all loose, this is not a problem.
              10- last.. pull out the other outside line and the rest is basic.

              I've had lines in a ball with sticks and driftwood well attached to the
              mess. I've wanted to just hang it all on my wall as an artpiece! But using
              the above method, it's never taken more than fifteen minutes to work out.
              The biggest point is the gentle separation of all the potential knots,
              having the bar attached to a static point and pulling out one line first.


              This line problem is something I'm working on right now and it's my
              feeling, one day, we will no longer use the lines..They're a pain.

              Oh..yea..one other thing.."You gotta love this sport!"


              At 6:26 AM 10/1/01, dfolk wrote:
              >One line at a time.
              >Take a line off at one end and start winding onto a line winder. Pass the
              >line winder through all the loops and tangles to free the line and wind up
              >the freed line as you go.
              >It's slow but reliable.
              >
              >Dave
              >
              >
              >
              >> the straight forward way is to take 1 line at a time and untangle that
              >one...
              >>
              >> its not the fastest way (there are other tricks to go faster) but it
              >ALWAYS
              >> works.. (the other tricks might just waste time if applied incorrectly)
              >>
              >> Chris Glazier wrote:
              >>
              >> > Yesterday a newbie came in with a big mass of tangled lines. I
              >> > explained that he should just sit down, relax, and calmly untangle
              >> > it. But when I returned 2 hours later he still hadn't finished. I
              >> > have some experience in this :-) and it shouldn't have taken that
              >> > long.
              >> >
              >> > So next time, what tips can I give on untangling technique . I can't
              >> > really explain how I do it. Does anyone have a systematic approach
              >> > that works.. and that you can put into words?
              >> >
              >> > Chris G
              >> >
              >> > PS. This was 4 lines of common Naish/Wipika braided spectra line.
              >> > (And I know that Q powerline is less prone to tangle.)
              >> >
              >> > Support your local kitesurf association !
              >> >
              >> > <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>
              >> >
              >> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >>
              >>
              >> Support your local kitesurf association !
              >>
              >>
              >> <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>
              >>
              >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >
              >
              >Support your local kitesurf association !
              >
              >
              ><<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>
              >
              >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

              Dave Terry@...
              POB 321
              Haiku, Hi. 96708
              phonefax-808-573-9120
            • Kitepower
              G day Dave One day you will learn good line management and you will grow to love your lines. If you eliminate the lines then you are no longer kiting. Get
              Message 6 of 12 , Oct 1, 2001
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                G'day Dave

                One day you will learn good line management and you will grow to love your
                lines. If you eliminate the lines then you are no longer kiting.
                Get yourself some Q-Power line or Flexifoil Hydro line and most of your
                troubles will disappear anyway.
                Most of us know about that other watersport with the stick and the sail!!
                ;-)

                Cya and
                Goodwinds
                Steve McCormack
                http://www.kitepower.com.au
                mailto:sydney@...
                126 Beach St, Coogee, NSW, Australia 2034
                Open 7 Days 9.30 - 5.30
                Also at 386 Latrobe Terrace Geelong Vic
                mailto:geelong@...

                -----Original Message-----
                From: DaveTerry@... [mailto:DaveTerry@...]
                Sent: Tuesday, 2 October 2001 5:07
                To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [ksurf] How to untangle kite lines?


                From Dave Terry- Maui,
                How to untangle lines...

                First of all,
                1- never let the lines get pulled tight after you get slack in them. This
                creates knots. If you have knots get a pin and pull them out if they are
                really tight. Try very hard not to cut those little threads..
                2-If using four line kite, see if you can keep the lines attached and pull
                out the bar away from the kite to pull tension on the lines..But not so
                much tension you pull tight.. Remember 1.
                3- tie the bar onto something, or get a girfriend(boyfriend) to hold the
                bar..
                4- Use the Dave Dorne(Action Sports Instructor on Maui) finger method of
                separation..the four spaces between your fingers each hold a line and
                seperate the appropriate lines at the bar.
                5-What I do is a bit different. I put the outside lines on the outside of
                my legs and the two inside lines between my legs..
                6-Now, the free hand is used to stretch out(pull away from you, or loosen)
                the lenght of lines just in front of you. The key is to seperate the turns
                long before you get to the tangles. Pull all the bends and turns and
                seaweed and loops away from each other. In other words,you want to loosen
                all the potential knots and let the lines become very loose.
                7- Now, begin slowing walking away from the secured bar as you separate.
                Eventually, you will get to a point where knots begin to form from the
                tension. You will have loosened the lines and their lengths will vary.
                8- This is the key...Now, when you see the knots are tightening, go distal
                from your secured end and out to the other end where all the loose lines
                are unattached. Hold all the ends together and shake some tension into the
                entire length. What you want to do is loosen all the potential loops and
                binds in the lines. Pull tension and shake while letting the lines loosen.
                There may be one area which is a problem and you'll need to go back to this
                and shake and loose.
                9-Finally, go back to the attached point and pull one of the outside lines
                away from the entire mess. This may require you to unhook the end from the
                mess, but if it's all loose, this is not a problem.
                10- last.. pull out the other outside line and the rest is basic.

                I've had lines in a ball with sticks and driftwood well attached to the
                mess. I've wanted to just hang it all on my wall as an artpiece! But using
                the above method, it's never taken more than fifteen minutes to work out.
                The biggest point is the gentle separation of all the potential knots,
                having the bar attached to a static point and pulling out one line first.


                This line problem is something I'm working on right now and it's my
                feeling, one day, we will no longer use the lines..They're a pain.

                Oh..yea..one other thing.."You gotta love this sport!"


                At 6:26 AM 10/1/01, dfolk wrote:
                >One line at a time.
                >Take a line off at one end and start winding onto a line winder. Pass the
                >line winder through all the loops and tangles to free the line and wind up
                >the freed line as you go.
                >It's slow but reliable.
                >
                >Dave
                >
                >
                >
                >> the straight forward way is to take 1 line at a time and untangle that
                >one...
                >>
                >> its not the fastest way (there are other tricks to go faster) but it
                >ALWAYS
                >> works.. (the other tricks might just waste time if applied incorrectly)
                >>
                >> Chris Glazier wrote:
                >>
                >> > Yesterday a newbie came in with a big mass of tangled lines. I
                >> > explained that he should just sit down, relax, and calmly untangle
                >> > it. But when I returned 2 hours later he still hadn't finished. I
                >> > have some experience in this :-) and it shouldn't have taken that
                >> > long.
                >> >
                >> > So next time, what tips can I give on untangling technique . I can't
                >> > really explain how I do it. Does anyone have a systematic approach
                >> > that works.. and that you can put into words?
                >> >
                >> > Chris G
                >> >
                >> > PS. This was 4 lines of common Naish/Wipika braided spectra line.
                >> > (And I know that Q powerline is less prone to tangle.)
                >> >
                >> > Support your local kitesurf association !
                >> >
                >> > <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>
                >> >
                >> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >>
                >>
                >> Support your local kitesurf association !
                >>
                >>
                >> <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>
                >>
                >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >
                >
                >Support your local kitesurf association !
                >
                >
                ><<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>
                >
                >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

                Dave Terry@...
                POB 321
                Haiku, Hi. 96708
                phonefax-808-573-9120




                Support your local kitesurf association !


                <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>

                Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              • Robin Zwissler
                It took me 4 years to develop the following easiest way to untangle lines, patent pending: 1.) Be a pain in the ass to your environment (girl-friend) when
                Message 7 of 12 , Oct 1, 2001
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                  It took me 4 years to develop the following easiest way to untangle
                  lines,
                  patent pending:

                  1.) Be a pain in the ass to your environment (girl-friend)
                  when there is no wind and you can't go out
                  2.) Get nervous and excited when the first signs of wind show up
                  3.) Being so nervous and excited it is likely to get tangles in the
                  lines
                  4.) Try to get the tangles out by yourself
                  5.) Being so nervous and excited it is likely to get even more tangles
                  6.) Curse anything and anyone around
                  7.) Look like a baby that is before crying
                  8.) Wait for your girl-friend to help
                  9.) Wait until girl-friend untangled the lines and get a launch from her

                  Thanks, Alexa, for being over 4 years my kite assistant! True love... :)


                  Robin
                  http://www.kite-surf.com
                • Ron Seydler
                  Another cool idea that Alex put me onto is when you detach the lines from your kite hook them onto a little peice of dowel in the correct order... Makes
                  Message 8 of 12 , Oct 1, 2001
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                    Another cool idea that Alex put me onto is when you detach the lines from
                    your kite hook them onto a little peice of dowel in the correct order...
                    Makes unwinding and sorting a heap quicker... The only way to get messy then
                    is if the lines come off the bar incorrectly during an unwind.

                    Ron

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: janwcoffey@... [mailto:janwcoffey@...]
                    Sent: Tuesday, 2 October 2001 4:15 PM
                    To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [ksurf] How to untangle kite lines?



                    I found that the #1 reason that lines get tangled is they fall off the
                    bar ends into a mess.

                    To avoid this you can either wind around the bar in a figure 8
                    instead of winding on the ends. This takes more time, but is much less
                    prone to slipping off.

                    What I do is take velcro straps with me, and wrapp them around the
                    lines and bar. I use the ends but still wrap in a figure 8. The straps
                    hold the lines on nicely. I first started doing this when I had a
                    Naish bar. With that bar it was the only way to keep the lines on. I
                    got a LOT of practice untangleing before I got the straps.

                    I use the straps around my ankles to keep the water from
                    collecting in my wetsuit legs when I am not using my wakeboard.

                    I also sometimes hook the free loop ends of the lines through my kite
                    leash attachment as I take them off the kite. This way even if the
                    lines do slip off I know that they are just twisted or looped back on
                    themselves.

                    Some people I see seem to just never have these sorts of problems.


                    Support your local kitesurf association !


                    <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>

                    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  • Roland Andrag
                    Very true post Jan... Basically if you are winding lines not using a fiure of eight, you are putting a twist in the lines every time you go round. These twists
                    Message 9 of 12 , Oct 2, 2001
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                      Very true post Jan...

                      Basically if you are winding lines not using a fiure of eight, you are
                      putting a twist in the lines every time you go round. These twists cause a
                      tangle if you don't remove the lines the same way you put them on. Winding
                      figure-eight does not have this problem (since you wind in half a twist and
                      then wind it straight out again), and thus is a much better method (also
                      when winding electric cable by the way). It is also as fast with a little
                      practise.

                      About velcro to secure the lines after winding, you can use the cleat lock
                      tuck at the end, by simply throwing the last few loops of line over one end
                      of the bar. This page shows it being done alternately at the top and bottom
                      of a cleat - on a kite bar do it two to four times on the SAME end, and your
                      lines will stay put - no velcro required.

                      http://www.marinews.com/Rope%20Knots/bk_cleatwi.htm

                      The Airblast video has a shot of someone locking his lines like this - you
                      can do it very quickly once you have the motion down.

                      I think for real tangles on average the fastest untangling method is to
                      remove/seperate one line at a time. Sometimes you might get it done real
                      quickly if you don't (by just removing loops), but most of the time you are
                      not going to be that lucky..

                      Roland

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: <janwcoffey@...>
                      To: <kitesurf@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 8:14 AM
                      Subject: Re: [ksurf] How to untangle kite lines?


                      >
                      > I found that the #1 reason that lines get tangled is they fall off the
                      > bar ends into a mess.
                      >
                      > To avoid this you can either wind around the bar in a figure 8
                      > instead of winding on the ends. This takes more time, but is much less
                      > prone to slipping off.
                      >
                      > What I do is take velcro straps with me, and wrapp them around the
                      > lines and bar. I use the ends but still wrap in a figure 8. The straps
                      > hold the lines on nicely. I first started doing this when I had a
                      > Naish bar. With that bar it was the only way to keep the lines on. I
                      > got a LOT of practice untangleing before I got the straps.
                      >
                      > I use the straps around my ankles to keep the water from
                      > collecting in my wetsuit legs when I am not using my wakeboard.
                      >
                      > I also sometimes hook the free loop ends of the lines through my kite
                      > leash attachment as I take them off the kite. This way even if the
                      > lines do slip off I know that they are just twisted or looped back on
                      > themselves.
                      >
                      > Some people I see seem to just never have these sorts of problems.
                      >
                      >
                      > Support your local kitesurf association !
                      >
                      >
                      > <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      >
                      >
                    • Mel
                      ... As mentioned, Q-Power lines help with that a LOT (& also with UNtangling). ... As Jan mentioned, always wind in a figure 8 pattern. That way they can only
                      Message 10 of 12 , Oct 2, 2001
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                        <alan.linsley@...> wrote:

                        > The key to untangling lines is, of course, not to let them tangle in the
                        > first place.

                        As mentioned, Q-Power lines help with that a LOT (& also with UNtangling).

                        > Yesterday's mess came about when a bunch of loops slipped of the end of my
                        > Airush bar. ... Anybody have
                        > any tips?

                        As Jan mentioned, always wind in a figure 8 pattern. That way they can only
                        come off in complete, parallel 4-line units. I find it takes LESS time,
                        since each wrap takes up a little more line.

                        You don't need to carry a Velcro strap. Jan uses the straps off his
                        wetsuit, I use the Velcro that's already on my gloves (it makes a handy
                        place to store them anyway) but even if you have neither of those, at the
                        end, when there's only a few feet of free line left, just wrap the lines
                        themselves around the bar a few turns to keep it on. I just read Roland's
                        post about the "cleat lock tuck", & that seems like a great idea too.

                        It also helps prevent slipping off the end if you use bigger knobs, on
                        longer stems, or better yet switch to TinMan winders (see the group files).
                        I recently made a set, & they hold a surprisingly huge amount of line, with
                        far less tendency to slip off. While I cut the end opening small (figuring
                        I could always enlarge it later), next time I'll just make them a half
                        circle, since that will make it even easier to wind them on, yet will still
                        allow plenty of space, & should still keep the lines on far better than any
                        other winder I've ever used.

                        Mel
                      • petew@tpg.com.au
                        One other thing that I havent seen mentioned and I learned on my first and only (so far) day, - prepare/check the lines so that you wont get tangled when water
                        Message 11 of 12 , Oct 3, 2001
                        • 0 Attachment
                          One other thing that I havent seen mentioned and I learned on my
                          first and only (so far) day,
                          - prepare/check the lines so that you wont get tangled when water
                          lanching your kite. The consequences could have been severe: but I
                          guess I was real lucky (I got a scratch on my finger).


                          --- In kitesurf@y..., "Kitepower" <kitepower@b...> wrote:
                          > G'day Dave
                          >
                          > One day you will learn good line management and you will grow to
                          love your
                          > lines. If you eliminate the lines then you are no longer kiting.
                          > Get yourself some Q-Power line or Flexifoil Hydro line and most of
                          your
                          > troubles will disappear anyway.
                          > Most of us know about that other watersport with the stick and the
                          sail!!
                          > ;-)
                          >
                          > Cya and
                          > Goodwinds
                          > Steve McCormack
                          > http://www.kitepower.com.au
                          > mailto:sydney@k...
                          > 126 Beach St, Coogee, NSW, Australia 2034
                          > Open 7 Days 9.30 - 5.30
                          > Also at 386 Latrobe Terrace Geelong Vic
                          > mailto:geelong@k...
                          >
                          > -----Original Message-----
                          > From: DaveTerry@c... [mailto:DaveTerry@c...]
                          > Sent: Tuesday, 2 October 2001 5:07
                          > To: kitesurf@y...
                          > Subject: Re: [ksurf] How to untangle kite lines?
                          >
                          >
                          > From Dave Terry- Maui,
                          > How to untangle lines...
                          >
                          > First of all,
                          > 1- never let the lines get pulled tight after you get slack in
                          them. This
                          > creates knots. If you have knots get a pin and pull them out if
                          they are
                          > really tight. Try very hard not to cut those little threads..
                          > 2-If using four line kite, see if you can keep the lines attached
                          and pull
                          > out the bar away from the kite to pull tension on the lines..But
                          not so
                          > much tension you pull tight.. Remember 1.
                          > 3- tie the bar onto something, or get a girfriend(boyfriend) to
                          hold the
                          > bar..
                          > 4- Use the Dave Dorne(Action Sports Instructor on Maui) finger
                          method of
                          > separation..the four spaces between your fingers each hold a line
                          and
                          > seperate the appropriate lines at the bar.
                          > 5-What I do is a bit different. I put the outside lines on the
                          outside of
                          > my legs and the two inside lines between my legs..
                          > 6-Now, the free hand is used to stretch out(pull away from you, or
                          loosen)
                          > the lenght of lines just in front of you. The key is to seperate
                          the turns
                          > long before you get to the tangles. Pull all the bends and turns and
                          > seaweed and loops away from each other. In other words,you want to
                          loosen
                          > all the potential knots and let the lines become very loose.
                          > 7- Now, begin slowing walking away from the secured bar as you
                          separate.
                          > Eventually, you will get to a point where knots begin to form from
                          the
                          > tension. You will have loosened the lines and their lengths will
                          vary.
                          > 8- This is the key...Now, when you see the knots are tightening, go
                          distal
                          > from your secured end and out to the other end where all the loose
                          lines
                          > are unattached. Hold all the ends together and shake some tension
                          into the
                          > entire length. What you want to do is loosen all the potential
                          loops and
                          > binds in the lines. Pull tension and shake while letting the lines
                          loosen.
                          > There may be one area which is a problem and you'll need to go back
                          to this
                          > and shake and loose.
                          > 9-Finally, go back to the attached point and pull one of the
                          outside lines
                          > away from the entire mess. This may require you to unhook the end
                          from the
                          > mess, but if it's all loose, this is not a problem.
                          > 10- last.. pull out the other outside line and the rest is basic.
                          >
                          > I've had lines in a ball with sticks and driftwood well attached to
                          the
                          > mess. I've wanted to just hang it all on my wall as an artpiece!
                          But using
                          > the above method, it's never taken more than fifteen minutes to
                          work out.
                          > The biggest point is the gentle separation of all the potential
                          knots,
                          > having the bar attached to a static point and pulling out one line
                          first.
                          >
                          >
                          > This line problem is something I'm working on right now and it's my
                          > feeling, one day, we will no longer use the lines..They're a pain.
                          >
                          > Oh..yea..one other thing.."You gotta love this sport!"
                          >
                          >
                          > At 6:26 AM 10/1/01, dfolk wrote:
                          > >One line at a time.
                          > >Take a line off at one end and start winding onto a line winder.
                          Pass the
                          > >line winder through all the loops and tangles to free the line and
                          wind up
                          > >the freed line as you go.
                          > >It's slow but reliable.
                          > >
                          > >Dave
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >> the straight forward way is to take 1 line at a time and
                          untangle that
                          > >one...
                          > >>
                          > >> its not the fastest way (there are other tricks to go faster)
                          but it
                          > >ALWAYS
                          > >> works.. (the other tricks might just waste time if applied
                          incorrectly)
                          > >>
                          > >> Chris Glazier wrote:
                          > >>
                          > >> > Yesterday a newbie came in with a big mass of tangled lines. I
                          > >> > explained that he should just sit down, relax, and calmly
                          untangle
                          > >> > it. But when I returned 2 hours later he still hadn't
                          finished. I
                          > >> > have some experience in this :-) and it shouldn't have taken
                          that
                          > >> > long.
                          > >> >
                          > >> > So next time, what tips can I give on untangling technique .
                          I can't
                          > >> > really explain how I do it. Does anyone have a systematic
                          approach
                          > >> > that works.. and that you can put into words?
                          > >> >
                          > >> > Chris G
                          > >> >
                          > >> > PS. This was 4 lines of common Naish/Wipika braided spectra
                          line.
                          > >> > (And I know that Q powerline is less prone to tangle.)
                          > >> >
                          > >> > Support your local kitesurf association !
                          > >> >
                          > >> > <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-
                          unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>
                          > >> >
                          > >> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                          > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                          > >>
                          > >>
                          > >> Support your local kitesurf association !
                          > >>
                          > >>
                          > >> <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-
                          unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>
                          > >>
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                          > >>
                          > >>
                          > >>
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >Support your local kitesurf association !
                          > >
                          > >
                          > ><<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-
                          unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>
                          > >
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                          >
                          > Dave Terry@c...
                          > POB 321
                          > Haiku, Hi. 96708
                          > phonefax-808-573-9120
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Support your local kitesurf association !
                          >
                          >
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