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Re: [ksurf] How to untangle kite lines?

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  • dfolk
    One line at a time. Take a line off at one end and start winding onto a line winder. Pass the line winder through all the loops and tangles to free the line
    Message 1 of 12 , Sep 30, 2001
      One line at a time.
      Take a line off at one end and start winding onto a line winder. Pass the
      line winder through all the loops and tangles to free the line and wind up
      the freed line as you go.
      It's slow but reliable.

      Dave



      > the straight forward way is to take 1 line at a time and untangle that
      one...
      >
      > its not the fastest way (there are other tricks to go faster) but it
      ALWAYS
      > works.. (the other tricks might just waste time if applied incorrectly)
      >
      > Chris Glazier wrote:
      >
      > > Yesterday a newbie came in with a big mass of tangled lines. I
      > > explained that he should just sit down, relax, and calmly untangle
      > > it. But when I returned 2 hours later he still hadn't finished. I
      > > have some experience in this :-) and it shouldn't have taken that
      > > long.
      > >
      > > So next time, what tips can I give on untangling technique . I can't
      > > really explain how I do it. Does anyone have a systematic approach
      > > that works.. and that you can put into words?
      > >
      > > Chris G
      > >
      > > PS. This was 4 lines of common Naish/Wipika braided spectra line.
      > > (And I know that Q powerline is less prone to tangle.)
      > >
      > > Support your local kitesurf association !
      > >
      > > <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>
      > >
      > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
      http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >
      > Support your local kitesurf association !
      >
      >
      > <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >
      >
    • Stefano Rosso
      the straight forward way is to take 1 line at a time and untangle that one... its not the fastest way (there are other tricks to go faster) but it ALWAYS
      Message 2 of 12 , Oct 1, 2001
        the straight forward way is to take 1 line at a time and untangle that one...

        its not the fastest way (there are other tricks to go faster) but it ALWAYS
        works.. (the other tricks might just waste time if applied incorrectly)

        Chris Glazier wrote:

        > Yesterday a newbie came in with a big mass of tangled lines. I
        > explained that he should just sit down, relax, and calmly untangle
        > it. But when I returned 2 hours later he still hadn't finished. I
        > have some experience in this :-) and it shouldn't have taken that
        > long.
        >
        > So next time, what tips can I give on untangling technique . I can't
        > really explain how I do it. Does anyone have a systematic approach
        > that works.. and that you can put into words?
        >
        > Chris G
        >
        > PS. This was 4 lines of common Naish/Wipika braided spectra line.
        > (And I know that Q powerline is less prone to tangle.)
        >
        > Support your local kitesurf association !
        >
        > <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      • Mel
        ... I agree with Stefano: there are tricks that don t always work & are hard to put into words (like looking for loops that can be pulled out), & one line at
        Message 3 of 12 , Oct 1, 2001
          Chris Glazier <cglazier@...> wrote:

          > Does anyone have a systematic approach
          > that works.. and that you can put into words?

          I agree with Stefano: there are tricks that don't always work & are hard to
          put into words (like looking for "loops" that can be pulled out), & one line
          at a time always works. Get (or make) four line winders (like what they
          come on when you buy them). Start at the free end of each line, & wrap as
          much as you can. Then take one winder & feed it through the mess as you
          keep winding line on. Sometimes it helps to stop part way & start on the
          next one before the first one is finished. Once you've done one or two, the
          rest is MUCH easier.

          > (And I know that Q powerline is less prone to tangle.)

          AND less difficult to UNtangle too. I recently got what would have been a
          "3-hour" tangle in "stock" line*, but it only took one hour to fix with my
          Qs.

          *It took 30 knots to finally overpower me on my wedged 840 at 63kg, but
          after releasing the kite to the leash, I pulled in to it & rolled it up
          before the lines, because I was drifting towards the rocks.

          Mel
        • Stefano Rosso
          ... and i agree with the above too ! ... What board are you riding to hold that much ? at 25+ with my 78 kg on a litewave 169 i am VERY wound up already... NOT
          Message 4 of 12 , Oct 1, 2001
            >
            > I agree with Stefano: there are tricks that don't always work & are hard to
            > put into words (like looking for "loops" that can be pulled out), & one line
            > at a time always works. Get (or make) four line winders (like what they
            > come on when you buy them). Start at the free end of each line, & wrap as
            > much as you can. Then take one winder & feed it through the mess as you
            > keep winding line on. Sometimes it helps to stop part way & start on the
            > next one before the first one is finished. Once you've done one or two, the
            > rest is MUCH easier.
            >
            >

            and i agree with the above too !


            >
            > *It took 30 knots to finally overpower me on my wedged 840 at 63kg, but
            > after releasing the kite to the leash, I pulled in to it & rolled it up
            > before the lines, because I was drifting towards the rocks.

            What board are you riding to hold that much ? at 25+ with my 78 kg on a litewave
            169 i am VERY wound up already... NOT comfortable at all !
          • alan.linsley@ca.pwcglobal.com
            Chris, This is embarassing...That was me! Although it was frustrating, it was a good thing, because I was way out of my league with that kite (12m Rhino) and
            Message 5 of 12 , Oct 1, 2001
              Chris,
              This is embarassing...That was me!
              Although it was frustrating, it was a good thing, because I was way out of
              my league with that kite (12m Rhino) and those conditions. So that Bird's
              nest probably kept me out of trouble.

              It seems that every new kite I have, regardless of stunt, trainer, or surf,
              the first time I use it, I try to be all clever with winding the lines, and
              always end up with a mess.

              Yesterday took a long time, partly because I spent a fair bit of time
              talking to people and helping others launch/relaunch (see my next message),
              and partly because I kept trying shortcuts that didn't work. I found that
              the following tips were the most successful,

              As I think you said, there are two ways to untangle lines - Scissors or
              Patience.
              The patience way works best if you try to keep the nest as loose as
              possible, and work on unlooping one line at a time (like Stepano
              Mentioned). I would work on one line for a while, get it free about 5m,
              and then work on another line.
              Once the lines got really long, I would use a winder to wind just one line,
              speeding things up a bit because I wouldn't have to pull 10m of line every
              time I unlooped.
              Good tips on keeping the nest loose - make sure you are pulling on a 'free'
              line only, if you accidentally start pulling on a line that goes into the
              mess, things go from bad to worse.
              Once the nest gets tight, get your fingers right into the depths of the
              mess, and pull apart. This helps a bit.
              I'm going to keep the winder from my slingshot trainer in my bag now, as it
              is smaller than the winder I was using. Smaller winders will fit through
              smaller loops.

              The key to untangling lines is, of course, not to let them tangle in the
              first place.

              Yesterday's mess came about when a bunch of loops slipped of the end of my
              Airush bar. I was in a rush when I wound the lines, and I'm thinking that
              I should have wound things up tighter. However, I'm finding that the
              leaders, the big pads on the airush back line leaders, and the Airush
              adjustment strap on the front line leader all take up too much room to
              include 80m (4x20m) of line on the bar, so now I'm wrapping up the leaders
              on the bar, and using the winders for the lines. It takes a little longer
              to set up, but it should save me from the problems I had yesterday. I
              think I'll try to make a longer winder to speed things up. Anybody have
              any tips?

              Thanks, and hopefully next time you see me, things will be better.

              Alan









              Chris Glazier
              <cglazier@hom To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
              e.com> cc:
              Subject: [ksurf] How to untangle kite lines?
              10/01/2001
              08:52 AM
              Please
              respond to
              kitesurf






              Yesterday a newbie came in with a big mass of tangled lines. I
              explained that he should just sit down, relax, and calmly untangle
              it. But when I returned 2 hours later he still hadn't finished. I
              have some experience in this :-) and it shouldn't have taken that
              long.

              So next time, what tips can I give on untangling technique . I can't
              really explain how I do it. Does anyone have a systematic approach
              that works.. and that you can put into words?

              Chris G

              PS. This was 4 lines of common Naish/Wipika braided spectra line.
              (And I know that Q powerline is less prone to tangle.)


              Support your local kitesurf association !


              <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>

              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




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            • DaveTerry@c4image.com
              From Dave Terry- Maui, How to untangle lines... First of all, 1- never let the lines get pulled tight after you get slack in them. This creates knots. If you
              Message 6 of 12 , Oct 1, 2001
                From Dave Terry- Maui,
                How to untangle lines...

                First of all,
                1- never let the lines get pulled tight after you get slack in them. This
                creates knots. If you have knots get a pin and pull them out if they are
                really tight. Try very hard not to cut those little threads..
                2-If using four line kite, see if you can keep the lines attached and pull
                out the bar away from the kite to pull tension on the lines..But not so
                much tension you pull tight.. Remember 1.
                3- tie the bar onto something, or get a girfriend(boyfriend) to hold the bar..
                4- Use the Dave Dorne(Action Sports Instructor on Maui) finger method of
                separation..the four spaces between your fingers each hold a line and
                seperate the appropriate lines at the bar.
                5-What I do is a bit different. I put the outside lines on the outside of
                my legs and the two inside lines between my legs..
                6-Now, the free hand is used to stretch out(pull away from you, or loosen)
                the lenght of lines just in front of you. The key is to seperate the turns
                long before you get to the tangles. Pull all the bends and turns and
                seaweed and loops away from each other. In other words,you want to loosen
                all the potential knots and let the lines become very loose.
                7- Now, begin slowing walking away from the secured bar as you separate.
                Eventually, you will get to a point where knots begin to form from the
                tension. You will have loosened the lines and their lengths will vary.
                8- This is the key...Now, when you see the knots are tightening, go distal
                from your secured end and out to the other end where all the loose lines
                are unattached. Hold all the ends together and shake some tension into the
                entire length. What you want to do is loosen all the potential loops and
                binds in the lines. Pull tension and shake while letting the lines loosen.
                There may be one area which is a problem and you'll need to go back to this
                and shake and loose.
                9-Finally, go back to the attached point and pull one of the outside lines
                away from the entire mess. This may require you to unhook the end from the
                mess, but if it's all loose, this is not a problem.
                10- last.. pull out the other outside line and the rest is basic.

                I've had lines in a ball with sticks and driftwood well attached to the
                mess. I've wanted to just hang it all on my wall as an artpiece! But using
                the above method, it's never taken more than fifteen minutes to work out.
                The biggest point is the gentle separation of all the potential knots,
                having the bar attached to a static point and pulling out one line first.


                This line problem is something I'm working on right now and it's my
                feeling, one day, we will no longer use the lines..They're a pain.

                Oh..yea..one other thing.."You gotta love this sport!"


                At 6:26 AM 10/1/01, dfolk wrote:
                >One line at a time.
                >Take a line off at one end and start winding onto a line winder. Pass the
                >line winder through all the loops and tangles to free the line and wind up
                >the freed line as you go.
                >It's slow but reliable.
                >
                >Dave
                >
                >
                >
                >> the straight forward way is to take 1 line at a time and untangle that
                >one...
                >>
                >> its not the fastest way (there are other tricks to go faster) but it
                >ALWAYS
                >> works.. (the other tricks might just waste time if applied incorrectly)
                >>
                >> Chris Glazier wrote:
                >>
                >> > Yesterday a newbie came in with a big mass of tangled lines. I
                >> > explained that he should just sit down, relax, and calmly untangle
                >> > it. But when I returned 2 hours later he still hadn't finished. I
                >> > have some experience in this :-) and it shouldn't have taken that
                >> > long.
                >> >
                >> > So next time, what tips can I give on untangling technique . I can't
                >> > really explain how I do it. Does anyone have a systematic approach
                >> > that works.. and that you can put into words?
                >> >
                >> > Chris G
                >> >
                >> > PS. This was 4 lines of common Naish/Wipika braided spectra line.
                >> > (And I know that Q powerline is less prone to tangle.)
                >> >
                >> > Support your local kitesurf association !
                >> >
                >> > <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>
                >> >
                >> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >>
                >>
                >> Support your local kitesurf association !
                >>
                >>
                >> <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>
                >>
                >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >
                >
                >Support your local kitesurf association !
                >
                >
                ><<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>
                >
                >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

                Dave Terry@...
                POB 321
                Haiku, Hi. 96708
                phonefax-808-573-9120
              • Kitepower
                G day Dave One day you will learn good line management and you will grow to love your lines. If you eliminate the lines then you are no longer kiting. Get
                Message 7 of 12 , Oct 1, 2001
                  G'day Dave

                  One day you will learn good line management and you will grow to love your
                  lines. If you eliminate the lines then you are no longer kiting.
                  Get yourself some Q-Power line or Flexifoil Hydro line and most of your
                  troubles will disappear anyway.
                  Most of us know about that other watersport with the stick and the sail!!
                  ;-)

                  Cya and
                  Goodwinds
                  Steve McCormack
                  http://www.kitepower.com.au
                  mailto:sydney@...
                  126 Beach St, Coogee, NSW, Australia 2034
                  Open 7 Days 9.30 - 5.30
                  Also at 386 Latrobe Terrace Geelong Vic
                  mailto:geelong@...

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: DaveTerry@... [mailto:DaveTerry@...]
                  Sent: Tuesday, 2 October 2001 5:07
                  To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [ksurf] How to untangle kite lines?


                  From Dave Terry- Maui,
                  How to untangle lines...

                  First of all,
                  1- never let the lines get pulled tight after you get slack in them. This
                  creates knots. If you have knots get a pin and pull them out if they are
                  really tight. Try very hard not to cut those little threads..
                  2-If using four line kite, see if you can keep the lines attached and pull
                  out the bar away from the kite to pull tension on the lines..But not so
                  much tension you pull tight.. Remember 1.
                  3- tie the bar onto something, or get a girfriend(boyfriend) to hold the
                  bar..
                  4- Use the Dave Dorne(Action Sports Instructor on Maui) finger method of
                  separation..the four spaces between your fingers each hold a line and
                  seperate the appropriate lines at the bar.
                  5-What I do is a bit different. I put the outside lines on the outside of
                  my legs and the two inside lines between my legs..
                  6-Now, the free hand is used to stretch out(pull away from you, or loosen)
                  the lenght of lines just in front of you. The key is to seperate the turns
                  long before you get to the tangles. Pull all the bends and turns and
                  seaweed and loops away from each other. In other words,you want to loosen
                  all the potential knots and let the lines become very loose.
                  7- Now, begin slowing walking away from the secured bar as you separate.
                  Eventually, you will get to a point where knots begin to form from the
                  tension. You will have loosened the lines and their lengths will vary.
                  8- This is the key...Now, when you see the knots are tightening, go distal
                  from your secured end and out to the other end where all the loose lines
                  are unattached. Hold all the ends together and shake some tension into the
                  entire length. What you want to do is loosen all the potential loops and
                  binds in the lines. Pull tension and shake while letting the lines loosen.
                  There may be one area which is a problem and you'll need to go back to this
                  and shake and loose.
                  9-Finally, go back to the attached point and pull one of the outside lines
                  away from the entire mess. This may require you to unhook the end from the
                  mess, but if it's all loose, this is not a problem.
                  10- last.. pull out the other outside line and the rest is basic.

                  I've had lines in a ball with sticks and driftwood well attached to the
                  mess. I've wanted to just hang it all on my wall as an artpiece! But using
                  the above method, it's never taken more than fifteen minutes to work out.
                  The biggest point is the gentle separation of all the potential knots,
                  having the bar attached to a static point and pulling out one line first.


                  This line problem is something I'm working on right now and it's my
                  feeling, one day, we will no longer use the lines..They're a pain.

                  Oh..yea..one other thing.."You gotta love this sport!"


                  At 6:26 AM 10/1/01, dfolk wrote:
                  >One line at a time.
                  >Take a line off at one end and start winding onto a line winder. Pass the
                  >line winder through all the loops and tangles to free the line and wind up
                  >the freed line as you go.
                  >It's slow but reliable.
                  >
                  >Dave
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >> the straight forward way is to take 1 line at a time and untangle that
                  >one...
                  >>
                  >> its not the fastest way (there are other tricks to go faster) but it
                  >ALWAYS
                  >> works.. (the other tricks might just waste time if applied incorrectly)
                  >>
                  >> Chris Glazier wrote:
                  >>
                  >> > Yesterday a newbie came in with a big mass of tangled lines. I
                  >> > explained that he should just sit down, relax, and calmly untangle
                  >> > it. But when I returned 2 hours later he still hadn't finished. I
                  >> > have some experience in this :-) and it shouldn't have taken that
                  >> > long.
                  >> >
                  >> > So next time, what tips can I give on untangling technique . I can't
                  >> > really explain how I do it. Does anyone have a systematic approach
                  >> > that works.. and that you can put into words?
                  >> >
                  >> > Chris G
                  >> >
                  >> > PS. This was 4 lines of common Naish/Wipika braided spectra line.
                  >> > (And I know that Q powerline is less prone to tangle.)
                  >> >
                  >> > Support your local kitesurf association !
                  >> >
                  >> > <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>
                  >> >
                  >> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                  >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> Support your local kitesurf association !
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>
                  >>
                  >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  >Support your local kitesurf association !
                  >
                  >
                  ><<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>
                  >
                  >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

                  Dave Terry@...
                  POB 321
                  Haiku, Hi. 96708
                  phonefax-808-573-9120




                  Support your local kitesurf association !


                  <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>

                  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                • Robin Zwissler
                  It took me 4 years to develop the following easiest way to untangle lines, patent pending: 1.) Be a pain in the ass to your environment (girl-friend) when
                  Message 8 of 12 , Oct 1, 2001
                    It took me 4 years to develop the following easiest way to untangle
                    lines,
                    patent pending:

                    1.) Be a pain in the ass to your environment (girl-friend)
                    when there is no wind and you can't go out
                    2.) Get nervous and excited when the first signs of wind show up
                    3.) Being so nervous and excited it is likely to get tangles in the
                    lines
                    4.) Try to get the tangles out by yourself
                    5.) Being so nervous and excited it is likely to get even more tangles
                    6.) Curse anything and anyone around
                    7.) Look like a baby that is before crying
                    8.) Wait for your girl-friend to help
                    9.) Wait until girl-friend untangled the lines and get a launch from her

                    Thanks, Alexa, for being over 4 years my kite assistant! True love... :)


                    Robin
                    http://www.kite-surf.com
                  • Ron Seydler
                    Another cool idea that Alex put me onto is when you detach the lines from your kite hook them onto a little peice of dowel in the correct order... Makes
                    Message 9 of 12 , Oct 1, 2001
                      Another cool idea that Alex put me onto is when you detach the lines from
                      your kite hook them onto a little peice of dowel in the correct order...
                      Makes unwinding and sorting a heap quicker... The only way to get messy then
                      is if the lines come off the bar incorrectly during an unwind.

                      Ron

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: janwcoffey@... [mailto:janwcoffey@...]
                      Sent: Tuesday, 2 October 2001 4:15 PM
                      To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [ksurf] How to untangle kite lines?



                      I found that the #1 reason that lines get tangled is they fall off the
                      bar ends into a mess.

                      To avoid this you can either wind around the bar in a figure 8
                      instead of winding on the ends. This takes more time, but is much less
                      prone to slipping off.

                      What I do is take velcro straps with me, and wrapp them around the
                      lines and bar. I use the ends but still wrap in a figure 8. The straps
                      hold the lines on nicely. I first started doing this when I had a
                      Naish bar. With that bar it was the only way to keep the lines on. I
                      got a LOT of practice untangleing before I got the straps.

                      I use the straps around my ankles to keep the water from
                      collecting in my wetsuit legs when I am not using my wakeboard.

                      I also sometimes hook the free loop ends of the lines through my kite
                      leash attachment as I take them off the kite. This way even if the
                      lines do slip off I know that they are just twisted or looped back on
                      themselves.

                      Some people I see seem to just never have these sorts of problems.


                      Support your local kitesurf association !


                      <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>

                      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    • Roland Andrag
                      Very true post Jan... Basically if you are winding lines not using a fiure of eight, you are putting a twist in the lines every time you go round. These twists
                      Message 10 of 12 , Oct 2, 2001
                        Very true post Jan...

                        Basically if you are winding lines not using a fiure of eight, you are
                        putting a twist in the lines every time you go round. These twists cause a
                        tangle if you don't remove the lines the same way you put them on. Winding
                        figure-eight does not have this problem (since you wind in half a twist and
                        then wind it straight out again), and thus is a much better method (also
                        when winding electric cable by the way). It is also as fast with a little
                        practise.

                        About velcro to secure the lines after winding, you can use the cleat lock
                        tuck at the end, by simply throwing the last few loops of line over one end
                        of the bar. This page shows it being done alternately at the top and bottom
                        of a cleat - on a kite bar do it two to four times on the SAME end, and your
                        lines will stay put - no velcro required.

                        http://www.marinews.com/Rope%20Knots/bk_cleatwi.htm

                        The Airblast video has a shot of someone locking his lines like this - you
                        can do it very quickly once you have the motion down.

                        I think for real tangles on average the fastest untangling method is to
                        remove/seperate one line at a time. Sometimes you might get it done real
                        quickly if you don't (by just removing loops), but most of the time you are
                        not going to be that lucky..

                        Roland

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: <janwcoffey@...>
                        To: <kitesurf@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 8:14 AM
                        Subject: Re: [ksurf] How to untangle kite lines?


                        >
                        > I found that the #1 reason that lines get tangled is they fall off the
                        > bar ends into a mess.
                        >
                        > To avoid this you can either wind around the bar in a figure 8
                        > instead of winding on the ends. This takes more time, but is much less
                        > prone to slipping off.
                        >
                        > What I do is take velcro straps with me, and wrapp them around the
                        > lines and bar. I use the ends but still wrap in a figure 8. The straps
                        > hold the lines on nicely. I first started doing this when I had a
                        > Naish bar. With that bar it was the only way to keep the lines on. I
                        > got a LOT of practice untangleing before I got the straps.
                        >
                        > I use the straps around my ankles to keep the water from
                        > collecting in my wetsuit legs when I am not using my wakeboard.
                        >
                        > I also sometimes hook the free loop ends of the lines through my kite
                        > leash attachment as I take them off the kite. This way even if the
                        > lines do slip off I know that they are just twisted or looped back on
                        > themselves.
                        >
                        > Some people I see seem to just never have these sorts of problems.
                        >
                        >
                        > Support your local kitesurf association !
                        >
                        >
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                        >
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                      • Mel
                        ... As mentioned, Q-Power lines help with that a LOT (& also with UNtangling). ... As Jan mentioned, always wind in a figure 8 pattern. That way they can only
                        Message 11 of 12 , Oct 2, 2001
                          <alan.linsley@...> wrote:

                          > The key to untangling lines is, of course, not to let them tangle in the
                          > first place.

                          As mentioned, Q-Power lines help with that a LOT (& also with UNtangling).

                          > Yesterday's mess came about when a bunch of loops slipped of the end of my
                          > Airush bar. ... Anybody have
                          > any tips?

                          As Jan mentioned, always wind in a figure 8 pattern. That way they can only
                          come off in complete, parallel 4-line units. I find it takes LESS time,
                          since each wrap takes up a little more line.

                          You don't need to carry a Velcro strap. Jan uses the straps off his
                          wetsuit, I use the Velcro that's already on my gloves (it makes a handy
                          place to store them anyway) but even if you have neither of those, at the
                          end, when there's only a few feet of free line left, just wrap the lines
                          themselves around the bar a few turns to keep it on. I just read Roland's
                          post about the "cleat lock tuck", & that seems like a great idea too.

                          It also helps prevent slipping off the end if you use bigger knobs, on
                          longer stems, or better yet switch to TinMan winders (see the group files).
                          I recently made a set, & they hold a surprisingly huge amount of line, with
                          far less tendency to slip off. While I cut the end opening small (figuring
                          I could always enlarge it later), next time I'll just make them a half
                          circle, since that will make it even easier to wind them on, yet will still
                          allow plenty of space, & should still keep the lines on far better than any
                          other winder I've ever used.

                          Mel
                        • petew@tpg.com.au
                          One other thing that I havent seen mentioned and I learned on my first and only (so far) day, - prepare/check the lines so that you wont get tangled when water
                          Message 12 of 12 , Oct 3, 2001
                            One other thing that I havent seen mentioned and I learned on my
                            first and only (so far) day,
                            - prepare/check the lines so that you wont get tangled when water
                            lanching your kite. The consequences could have been severe: but I
                            guess I was real lucky (I got a scratch on my finger).


                            --- In kitesurf@y..., "Kitepower" <kitepower@b...> wrote:
                            > G'day Dave
                            >
                            > One day you will learn good line management and you will grow to
                            love your
                            > lines. If you eliminate the lines then you are no longer kiting.
                            > Get yourself some Q-Power line or Flexifoil Hydro line and most of
                            your
                            > troubles will disappear anyway.
                            > Most of us know about that other watersport with the stick and the
                            sail!!
                            > ;-)
                            >
                            > Cya and
                            > Goodwinds
                            > Steve McCormack
                            > http://www.kitepower.com.au
                            > mailto:sydney@k...
                            > 126 Beach St, Coogee, NSW, Australia 2034
                            > Open 7 Days 9.30 - 5.30
                            > Also at 386 Latrobe Terrace Geelong Vic
                            > mailto:geelong@k...
                            >
                            > -----Original Message-----
                            > From: DaveTerry@c... [mailto:DaveTerry@c...]
                            > Sent: Tuesday, 2 October 2001 5:07
                            > To: kitesurf@y...
                            > Subject: Re: [ksurf] How to untangle kite lines?
                            >
                            >
                            > From Dave Terry- Maui,
                            > How to untangle lines...
                            >
                            > First of all,
                            > 1- never let the lines get pulled tight after you get slack in
                            them. This
                            > creates knots. If you have knots get a pin and pull them out if
                            they are
                            > really tight. Try very hard not to cut those little threads..
                            > 2-If using four line kite, see if you can keep the lines attached
                            and pull
                            > out the bar away from the kite to pull tension on the lines..But
                            not so
                            > much tension you pull tight.. Remember 1.
                            > 3- tie the bar onto something, or get a girfriend(boyfriend) to
                            hold the
                            > bar..
                            > 4- Use the Dave Dorne(Action Sports Instructor on Maui) finger
                            method of
                            > separation..the four spaces between your fingers each hold a line
                            and
                            > seperate the appropriate lines at the bar.
                            > 5-What I do is a bit different. I put the outside lines on the
                            outside of
                            > my legs and the two inside lines between my legs..
                            > 6-Now, the free hand is used to stretch out(pull away from you, or
                            loosen)
                            > the lenght of lines just in front of you. The key is to seperate
                            the turns
                            > long before you get to the tangles. Pull all the bends and turns and
                            > seaweed and loops away from each other. In other words,you want to
                            loosen
                            > all the potential knots and let the lines become very loose.
                            > 7- Now, begin slowing walking away from the secured bar as you
                            separate.
                            > Eventually, you will get to a point where knots begin to form from
                            the
                            > tension. You will have loosened the lines and their lengths will
                            vary.
                            > 8- This is the key...Now, when you see the knots are tightening, go
                            distal
                            > from your secured end and out to the other end where all the loose
                            lines
                            > are unattached. Hold all the ends together and shake some tension
                            into the
                            > entire length. What you want to do is loosen all the potential
                            loops and
                            > binds in the lines. Pull tension and shake while letting the lines
                            loosen.
                            > There may be one area which is a problem and you'll need to go back
                            to this
                            > and shake and loose.
                            > 9-Finally, go back to the attached point and pull one of the
                            outside lines
                            > away from the entire mess. This may require you to unhook the end
                            from the
                            > mess, but if it's all loose, this is not a problem.
                            > 10- last.. pull out the other outside line and the rest is basic.
                            >
                            > I've had lines in a ball with sticks and driftwood well attached to
                            the
                            > mess. I've wanted to just hang it all on my wall as an artpiece!
                            But using
                            > the above method, it's never taken more than fifteen minutes to
                            work out.
                            > The biggest point is the gentle separation of all the potential
                            knots,
                            > having the bar attached to a static point and pulling out one line
                            first.
                            >
                            >
                            > This line problem is something I'm working on right now and it's my
                            > feeling, one day, we will no longer use the lines..They're a pain.
                            >
                            > Oh..yea..one other thing.."You gotta love this sport!"
                            >
                            >
                            > At 6:26 AM 10/1/01, dfolk wrote:
                            > >One line at a time.
                            > >Take a line off at one end and start winding onto a line winder.
                            Pass the
                            > >line winder through all the loops and tangles to free the line and
                            wind up
                            > >the freed line as you go.
                            > >It's slow but reliable.
                            > >
                            > >Dave
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >> the straight forward way is to take 1 line at a time and
                            untangle that
                            > >one...
                            > >>
                            > >> its not the fastest way (there are other tricks to go faster)
                            but it
                            > >ALWAYS
                            > >> works.. (the other tricks might just waste time if applied
                            incorrectly)
                            > >>
                            > >> Chris Glazier wrote:
                            > >>
                            > >> > Yesterday a newbie came in with a big mass of tangled lines. I
                            > >> > explained that he should just sit down, relax, and calmly
                            untangle
                            > >> > it. But when I returned 2 hours later he still hadn't
                            finished. I
                            > >> > have some experience in this :-) and it shouldn't have taken
                            that
                            > >> > long.
                            > >> >
                            > >> > So next time, what tips can I give on untangling technique .
                            I can't
                            > >> > really explain how I do it. Does anyone have a systematic
                            approach
                            > >> > that works.. and that you can put into words?
                            > >> >
                            > >> > Chris G
                            > >> >
                            > >> > PS. This was 4 lines of common Naish/Wipika braided spectra
                            line.
                            > >> > (And I know that Q powerline is less prone to tangle.)
                            > >> >
                            > >> > Support your local kitesurf association !
                            > >> >
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                            > >>
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                            > >>
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >Support your local kitesurf association !
                            > >
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                            >
                            > Dave Terry@c...
                            > POB 321
                            > Haiku, Hi. 96708
                            > phonefax-808-573-9120
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Support your local kitesurf association !
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