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Re: [ksurf] Flysurfer foils vs Boom Vector

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  • Rainer Leuschke
    ... Quoted ranges are like most advertisement not to be taken too seriously. Otherwise the vector 11.5 is from what I understand more like the speedair line of
    Message 1 of 13 , Sep 30, 2001
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      On Sat, 29 Sep 2001, ian.bancroft wrote:

      > I'm looking for a 10-12m foil. Does anyone have experience of both
      > the SpeedAir/Mastair vs the Vector? Both seem to have a working
      > depower, and both appear well constructed. Can anyone expand on what
      > they are like to fly.

      > The flysurfer foil seems to have an enormous
      > quoted range. Any comments?

      Quoted ranges are like most advertisement not to be taken too seriously.

      Otherwise the vector 11.5 is from what I understand more like the speedair
      line of kites. Not the ultimate in light air performance due to their
      design focus on stability and ease of use. Still a good work horse for the
      heavier guys.

      R!
    • robschraderhb@yahoo.com
      I do not have any experience with the vector, but the mastair 12m is a great kite. The depower works extremely well. The range is actually really amazing as
      Message 2 of 13 , Oct 1, 2001
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        I do not have any experience with the vector, but the mastair 12m is
        a great kite. The depower works extremely well. The range is actually
        really amazing as well. Maybe not what they advertise, but pretty
        close. My only complaint is in really gust conditions where it drops
        below 8 then rockets back up to twenty, this kite can be dangerous
        because after dropping below a certain point it will lose its shape.
        But if you do not have conditions like that, then this is a great
        kite.--- In kitesurf@y..., Rainer Leuschke <rainer@u...> wrote:
        >
        > On Sat, 29 Sep 2001, ian.bancroft wrote:
        >
        > > I'm looking for a 10-12m foil. Does anyone have experience of
        both
        > > the SpeedAir/Mastair vs the Vector? Both seem to have a working
        > > depower, and both appear well constructed. Can anyone expand on
        what
        > > they are like to fly.
        >
        > > The flysurfer foil seems to have an enormous
        > > quoted range. Any comments?
        >
        > Quoted ranges are like most advertisement not to be taken too
        seriously.
        >
        > Otherwise the vector 11.5 is from what I understand more like the
        speedair
        > line of kites. Not the ultimate in light air performance due to
        their
        > design focus on stability and ease of use. Still a good work horse
        for the
        > heavier guys.
        >
        > R!
      • Rainer Leuschke
        ... Btw, boom has now info on their speed system up on their web page: http://www.boom-kites.com/speed/speedsys.html ... I haven t seen a kite yet that will
        Message 3 of 13 , Oct 1, 2001
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          On Mon, 1 Oct 2001 robschraderhb@... wrote:
          > I do not have any experience with the vector, but the mastair 12m is
          > a great kite. The depower works extremely well.

          Btw, boom has now info on their "speed system" up on their web page:
          http://www.boom-kites.com/speed/speedsys.html

          > My only complaint is in really gust conditions where it drops
          > below 8 then rockets back up to twenty,

          I haven't seen a kite yet that will handle these types of conditions
          gracefully. The vector at least won't luff when flying up in the gusts and
          won't lose shape in the lulls. A higher performance kite like the mastair
          would certainly make these conditions more challenging to cope with but
          that isn't so different from high performance vs entry level
          inflatibles....

          What do you mean by lose shape? Inflation? Fold tips?

          R!
        • Greg Walsh
          For build quality and stability the Vector is by far the best kite I have seen. Everyone who sees it comments on what a great looking kite it is, even ARX and
          Message 4 of 13 , Oct 1, 2001
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            For build quality and stability the Vector is by far the best kite I
            have seen. Everyone who sees it comments on what a great looking kite
            it is, even ARX and AirBlast riders. The construction is more like a
            top of the range paraglider than a kite. It is super stable, much
            more stable and luff resistant than an Arc. I do not exaggerate.

            Unfortunately this stablity comes at the cost of bottom end power. It
            turns slow when underpowered and is hard to work up apparent wind.
            Once up and planing it's fine. You need to go a size or 2 bigger with
            a Vector to get the same as a high performance kite like an ARX or
            Air Blast. My Vector 9.0 has slightly less bottom end than an Arc
            1120.

            Greg
          • Greg Walsh
            It looks like my previous reply has gone into net limbo. For construction and stability my Vector 9.0 rates 11 out of 10. Far better than everything else I ve
            Message 5 of 13 , Oct 1, 2001
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              It looks like my previous reply has gone into net limbo. For
              construction and stability my Vector 9.0 rates 11 out of 10. Far
              better than everything else I've seen including the Arc. I'm not
              exaggerating.

              The stability and slow turning speed means the Vector 9.0 has very
              poor low end power. I just can't turn it fast enough to get it up and
              planing in under 10 knots (80kg, 195cm directional). Once it's up and
              planing it's fine. The Vector is aimed at the beginner-intermediate
              market. I haven't tried the speed system yet.

              Greg
            • michael758@excite.com
              Flysurfer is also built really well. It is also basically a quality paraglider. I have the Mastair 12 and I prefer it to my AB 16.4 and 11.8 for 9-14 mph
              Message 6 of 13 , Oct 1, 2001
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                Flysurfer is also built really well. It is also basically a quality
                paraglider. I have the Mastair 12 and I prefer it to my AB 16.4 and
                11.8 for 9-14 mph winds. I will buy the 16 too.
                Michael (Greece)



                --- In kitesurf@y..., "Greg Walsh" <gregwal@e...> wrote:
                > For build quality and stability the Vector is by far the best kite
                I
                > have seen. Everyone who sees it comments on what a great looking
                kite
                > it is, even ARX and AirBlast riders. The construction is more like
                a
                > top of the range paraglider than a kite. It is super stable, much
                > more stable and luff resistant than an Arc. I do not exaggerate.
                >
                > Unfortunately this stablity comes at the cost of bottom end power.
                It
                > turns slow when underpowered and is hard to work up apparent wind.
                > Once up and planing it's fine. You need to go a size or 2 bigger
                with
                > a Vector to get the same as a high performance kite like an ARX or
                > Air Blast. My Vector 9.0 has slightly less bottom end than an Arc
                > 1120.
                >
                > Greg
              • Kitepower
                Every kite I have seen built by a paraglider company has been overconstructed, with heavy armoured bridling and excessive reinforcing. What this does is
                Message 7 of 13 , Oct 2, 2001
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                  Every kite I have seen built by a "paraglider company" has been
                  overconstructed, with heavy "armoured" bridling and excessive reinforcing.
                  What this does is make the kite weigh too much and it has no bottom end.
                  Get your kites from KITE companys!

                  Cya and
                  Goodwinds
                  Steve McCormack
                  http://www.kitepower.com.au
                  mailto:sydney@...
                  Open 7 days
                  126 Beach St, Coogee, Sydney, Australia 2034
                  Phone +61293157894

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: michael758@... [mailto:michael758@...]
                  Sent: 02 October, 2001 4:42 PM
                  To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [ksurf] Flysurfer foils vs Boom Vector


                  Flysurfer is also built really well. It is also basically a quality
                  paraglider. I have the Mastair 12 and I prefer it to my AB 16.4 and
                  11.8 for 9-14 mph winds. I will buy the 16 too.
                  Michael (Greece)



                  --- In kitesurf@y..., "Greg Walsh" <gregwal@e...> wrote:
                  > For build quality and stability the Vector is by far the best kite
                  I
                  > have seen. Everyone who sees it comments on what a great looking
                  kite
                  > it is, even ARX and AirBlast riders. The construction is more like
                  a
                  > top of the range paraglider than a kite. It is super stable, much
                  > more stable and luff resistant than an Arc. I do not exaggerate.
                  >
                  > Unfortunately this stablity comes at the cost of bottom end power.
                  It
                  > turns slow when underpowered and is hard to work up apparent wind.
                  > Once up and planing it's fine. You need to go a size or 2 bigger
                  with
                  > a Vector to get the same as a high performance kite like an ARX or
                  > Air Blast. My Vector 9.0 has slightly less bottom end than an Arc
                  > 1120.
                  >
                  > Greg


                  Support your local kitesurf association !


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                • Greg Walsh
                  ... reinforcing. ... end. ... Hey Steve I went and weighed my kites cause I thought you might be onto something being the old skygod-on-a-string that you are.
                  Message 8 of 13 , Oct 2, 2001
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                    --- In kitesurf@y..., "Kitepower" <kitepower@b...> wrote:
                    > Every kite I have seen built by a "paraglider company" has been
                    > overconstructed, with heavy "armoured" bridling and excessive
                    reinforcing.
                    > What this does is make the kite weigh too much and it has no bottom
                    end.
                    > Get your kites from KITE companys!
                    >
                    > Cya and
                    > Goodwinds
                    > Steve McCormack
                    > http://www.kitepower.com.au
                    > mailto:sydney@k...
                    > Open 7 days
                    > 126 Beach St, Coogee, Sydney, Australia 2034
                    > Phone +61293157894

                    Hey Steve

                    I went and weighed my kites cause I thought you might be onto
                    something being the old skygod-on-a-string that you are.

                    Naish AR5 11.5 2850g
                    ConceptAir WaveEx 7.2 1500g
                    Vector 9.0 2100g

                    If you scale up the size of the WaveEx to 9.0 it should weigh about
                    1870g so the Vector is about 250g overweight. Not too obese for a
                    kite with half d-ribs. I could be wrong but I doubt if 250 grams is
                    enough to make the difference between a kite that works and a kite
                    that doesn't. Personally I suspect the cause of the poor bottom end
                    of the Vector 9.0 is the low AR and the slow turning speed.

                    BTW. Wipika and Kiteski were the only companies producing
                    relaunchable kitesurf kites more than three years ago. Naish are the
                    market leaders and Cabrinha and North are the up and comers.
                    ConceptAir and F-One are relative newcomers and Flexifloil still
                    have't produced a relaunchable foil that their team riders will use.
                    Personally I think kitesurf wings bear as much resemblance to kites
                    as a stealth bomber does to a Cessna.
                  • Rainer Leuschke
                    ... Seems to me that the 9.0 vector is somewhere between 11.5 and 15.5 Naish equivalent. 13.5 maybe? R!
                    Message 9 of 13 , Oct 2, 2001
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                      On Mon, 1 Oct 2001, Greg Walsh wrote:
                      > My Vector 9.0 has slightly less bottom end than an Arc
                      > 1120.

                      Seems to me that the 9.0 vector is somewhere between 11.5 and 15.5 Naish
                      equivalent. 13.5 maybe?
                      R!
                    • mikes1p@email.com
                      ... What companies? What kites? I would like avoid them since I am still looking to buy a smaller kite To my knowledge and from what I gather from their
                      Message 10 of 13 , Oct 2, 2001
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                        > Every kite I have seen built by a "paraglider company" has been
                        > overconstructed, with heavy "armoured" bridling and excessive
                        > reinforcing.
                        What companies? What kites? I would like avoid them since I am still
                        looking to buy a smaller kite

                        To my knowledge and from what I gather from their websites, FlySurfer
                        and Boom are Kitesurfing companies, not Paraglider companies (unless
                        they are hiding something). They say they have staff that has a
                        paragliding background though.

                        Compared to my F-One the FlySurfer MastAir is built lighter,
                        especially the bridle with unsleeved spectra, F-One uses sleeved
                        bridle lines that are stiffer and sort themselves out faster which I
                        like, but on a big kite it would add weight and drag, which you don't
                        want in light wind. My Mastair 12M is awesome in low wind

                        Mike

                        > Every kite I have seen built by a "paraglider company" has been
                        > overconstructed, with heavy "armoured" bridling and excessive
                        reinforcing.
                        > What this does is make the kite weigh too much and it has no bottom
                        end.
                        > Get your kites from KITE companys!
                        >
                        > Cya and
                        > Goodwinds
                        > Steve McCormack
                        > http://www.kitepower.com.au
                        > mailto:sydney@k...
                        > Open 7 days
                        > 126 Beach St, Coogee, Sydney, Australia 2034
                        > Phone +61293157894
                        >
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: michael758@e... [mailto:michael758@e...]
                        > Sent: 02 October, 2001 4:42 PM
                        > To: kitesurf@y...
                        > Subject: Re: [ksurf] Flysurfer foils vs Boom Vector
                        >
                        >
                        > Flysurfer is also built really well. It is also basically a quality
                        > paraglider. I have the Mastair 12 and I prefer it to my AB 16.4 and
                        > 11.8 for 9-14 mph winds. I will buy the 16 too.
                        > Michael (Greece)
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In kitesurf@y..., "Greg Walsh" <gregwal@e...> wrote:
                        > > For build quality and stability the Vector is by far the best kite
                        > I
                        > > have seen. Everyone who sees it comments on what a great looking
                        > kite
                        > > it is, even ARX and AirBlast riders. The construction is more like
                        > a
                        > > top of the range paraglider than a kite. It is super stable, much
                        > > more stable and luff resistant than an Arc. I do not exaggerate.
                        > >
                        > > Unfortunately this stablity comes at the cost of bottom end power.
                        > It
                        > > turns slow when underpowered and is hard to work up apparent wind.
                        > > Once up and planing it's fine. You need to go a size or 2 bigger
                        > with
                        > > a Vector to get the same as a high performance kite like an ARX or
                        > > Air Blast. My Vector 9.0 has slightly less bottom end than an Arc
                        > > 1120.
                        > >
                        > > Greg
                        >
                        >
                        > Support your local kitesurf association !
                        >
                        >
                        > <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-
                        unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>
                        >
                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                        http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      • Kitepower
                        Hi Greg I will weigh a Blade 2, 9.0M and let you know, but it appears to be a heavy kite, weight is only one contributing cause of low wind performance though.
                        Message 11 of 13 , Oct 2, 2001
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                          Hi Greg
                          I will weigh a Blade 2, 9.0M and let you know, but it appears to be a heavy
                          kite, weight is only one contributing cause of low wind performance though.
                          The "buy your kites from kite companies" was not meant to be taken seriously
                          as there are hardly any specialist kite makers in the Kitesurf market.

                          Cya and
                          Goodwinds
                          Steve McCormack
                          http://www.kitepower.com.au
                          mailto:sydney@...
                          126 Beach St, Coogee, NSW, Australia 2034
                          Open 7 Days 9.30 - 5.30
                          Also at 386 Latrobe Terrace Geelong Vic
                          mailto:geelong@...

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: Greg Walsh [mailto:gregwal@...]
                          Sent: Tuesday, 2 October 2001 8:55
                          To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [ksurf] Flysurfer foils vs Boom Vector


                          --- In kitesurf@y..., "Kitepower" <kitepower@b...> wrote:
                          > Every kite I have seen built by a "paraglider company" has been
                          > overconstructed, with heavy "armoured" bridling and excessive
                          reinforcing.
                          > What this does is make the kite weigh too much and it has no bottom
                          end.
                          > Get your kites from KITE companys!
                          >
                          > Cya and
                          > Goodwinds
                          > Steve McCormack
                          > http://www.kitepower.com.au
                          > mailto:sydney@k...
                          > Open 7 days
                          > 126 Beach St, Coogee, Sydney, Australia 2034
                          > Phone +61293157894

                          Hey Steve

                          I went and weighed my kites cause I thought you might be onto
                          something being the old skygod-on-a-string that you are.

                          Naish AR5 11.5 2850g
                          ConceptAir WaveEx 7.2 1500g
                          Vector 9.0 2100g

                          If you scale up the size of the WaveEx to 9.0 it should weigh about
                          1870g so the Vector is about 250g overweight. Not too obese for a
                          kite with half d-ribs. I could be wrong but I doubt if 250 grams is
                          enough to make the difference between a kite that works and a kite
                          that doesn't. Personally I suspect the cause of the poor bottom end
                          of the Vector 9.0 is the low AR and the slow turning speed.

                          BTW. Wipika and Kiteski were the only companies producing
                          relaunchable kitesurf kites more than three years ago. Naish are the
                          market leaders and Cabrinha and North are the up and comers.
                          ConceptAir and F-One are relative newcomers and Flexifloil still
                          have't produced a relaunchable foil that their team riders will use.
                          Personally I think kitesurf wings bear as much resemblance to kites
                          as a stealth bomber does to a Cessna.



                          Support your local kitesurf association !


                          <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>

                          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        • mike
                          Aloha, If you plan tyo get a 16 you need to place your order soon. Their is limited amount on the way and you want to be assured to of getting one. I am in
                          Message 12 of 13 , Oct 3, 2001
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                            Aloha,

                            If you plan tyo get a 16 you need to place your order soon. Their is limited amount on the way and you want to be assured to of getting one. I am in Southern CA Thursday at Kites ect and SD on the weekend.

                            MT

                            Michael Theriault
                            2 Zocco Lane
                            Oceanport, NJ 07757
                            732-229-4131


                            ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
                            From: "Kitepower" <kitepower@...>
                            Reply-To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 17:36:25 +1000

                            >Every kite I have seen built by a "paraglider company" has been
                            >overconstructed, with heavy "armoured" bridling and excessive reinforcing.
                            >What this does is make the kite weigh too much and it has no bottom end.
                            >Get your kites from KITE companys!
                            >
                            >Cya and
                            >Goodwinds
                            >Steve McCormack
                            >http://www.kitepower.com.au
                            >mailto:sydney@...
                            >Open 7 days
                            >126 Beach St, Coogee, Sydney, Australia 2034
                            >Phone +61293157894
                            >
                            >-----Original Message-----
                            >From: michael758@... [mailto:michael758@...]
                            >Sent: 02 October, 2001 4:42 PM
                            >To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                            >Subject: Re: [ksurf] Flysurfer foils vs Boom Vector
                            >
                            >
                            >Flysurfer is also built really well. It is also basically a quality
                            >paraglider. I have the Mastair 12 and I prefer it to my AB 16.4 and
                            >11.8 for 9-14 mph winds. I will buy the 16 too.
                            > Michael (Greece)
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >--- In kitesurf@y..., "Greg Walsh" <gregwal@e...> wrote:
                            >> For build quality and stability the Vector is by far the best kite
                            >I
                            >> have seen. Everyone who sees it comments on what a great looking
                            >kite
                            >> it is, even ARX and AirBlast riders. The construction is more like
                            >a
                            >> top of the range paraglider than a kite. It is super stable, much
                            >> more stable and luff resistant than an Arc. I do not exaggerate.
                            >>
                            >> Unfortunately this stablity comes at the cost of bottom end power.
                            >It
                            >> turns slow when underpowered and is hard to work up apparent wind.
                            >> Once up and planing it's fine. You need to go a size or 2 bigger
                            >with
                            >> a Vector to get the same as a high performance kite like an ARX or
                            >> Air Blast. My Vector 9.0 has slightly less bottom end than an Arc
                            >> 1120.
                            >>
                            >> Greg
                            >
                            >
                            >Support your local kitesurf association !
                            >
                            >
                            ><<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>
                            >
                            >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >Support your local kitesurf association !
                            >
                            >
                            ><<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>
                            >
                            >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                            >
                            >
                            >
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