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Flysurfer foils vs Boom Vector

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  • ian.bancroft
    I m looking for a 10-12m foil. Does anyone have experience of both the SpeedAir/Mastair vs the Vector? Both seem to have a working depower, and both appear
    Message 1 of 13 , Sep 29, 2001
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      I'm looking for a 10-12m foil. Does anyone have experience of both the SpeedAir/Mastair vs the Vector? Both seem to have a working depower, and both appear well constructed. Can anyone expand on what they are like to fly. The flysurfer foil seems to have an enormous quoted range. Any comments?
      thanks in advance
      Ian


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Rainer Leuschke
      ... Quoted ranges are like most advertisement not to be taken too seriously. Otherwise the vector 11.5 is from what I understand more like the speedair line of
      Message 2 of 13 , Sep 30, 2001
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        On Sat, 29 Sep 2001, ian.bancroft wrote:

        > I'm looking for a 10-12m foil. Does anyone have experience of both
        > the SpeedAir/Mastair vs the Vector? Both seem to have a working
        > depower, and both appear well constructed. Can anyone expand on what
        > they are like to fly.

        > The flysurfer foil seems to have an enormous
        > quoted range. Any comments?

        Quoted ranges are like most advertisement not to be taken too seriously.

        Otherwise the vector 11.5 is from what I understand more like the speedair
        line of kites. Not the ultimate in light air performance due to their
        design focus on stability and ease of use. Still a good work horse for the
        heavier guys.

        R!
      • robschraderhb@yahoo.com
        I do not have any experience with the vector, but the mastair 12m is a great kite. The depower works extremely well. The range is actually really amazing as
        Message 3 of 13 , Oct 1, 2001
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          I do not have any experience with the vector, but the mastair 12m is
          a great kite. The depower works extremely well. The range is actually
          really amazing as well. Maybe not what they advertise, but pretty
          close. My only complaint is in really gust conditions where it drops
          below 8 then rockets back up to twenty, this kite can be dangerous
          because after dropping below a certain point it will lose its shape.
          But if you do not have conditions like that, then this is a great
          kite.--- In kitesurf@y..., Rainer Leuschke <rainer@u...> wrote:
          >
          > On Sat, 29 Sep 2001, ian.bancroft wrote:
          >
          > > I'm looking for a 10-12m foil. Does anyone have experience of
          both
          > > the SpeedAir/Mastair vs the Vector? Both seem to have a working
          > > depower, and both appear well constructed. Can anyone expand on
          what
          > > they are like to fly.
          >
          > > The flysurfer foil seems to have an enormous
          > > quoted range. Any comments?
          >
          > Quoted ranges are like most advertisement not to be taken too
          seriously.
          >
          > Otherwise the vector 11.5 is from what I understand more like the
          speedair
          > line of kites. Not the ultimate in light air performance due to
          their
          > design focus on stability and ease of use. Still a good work horse
          for the
          > heavier guys.
          >
          > R!
        • Rainer Leuschke
          ... Btw, boom has now info on their speed system up on their web page: http://www.boom-kites.com/speed/speedsys.html ... I haven t seen a kite yet that will
          Message 4 of 13 , Oct 1, 2001
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            On Mon, 1 Oct 2001 robschraderhb@... wrote:
            > I do not have any experience with the vector, but the mastair 12m is
            > a great kite. The depower works extremely well.

            Btw, boom has now info on their "speed system" up on their web page:
            http://www.boom-kites.com/speed/speedsys.html

            > My only complaint is in really gust conditions where it drops
            > below 8 then rockets back up to twenty,

            I haven't seen a kite yet that will handle these types of conditions
            gracefully. The vector at least won't luff when flying up in the gusts and
            won't lose shape in the lulls. A higher performance kite like the mastair
            would certainly make these conditions more challenging to cope with but
            that isn't so different from high performance vs entry level
            inflatibles....

            What do you mean by lose shape? Inflation? Fold tips?

            R!
          • Greg Walsh
            For build quality and stability the Vector is by far the best kite I have seen. Everyone who sees it comments on what a great looking kite it is, even ARX and
            Message 5 of 13 , Oct 1, 2001
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              For build quality and stability the Vector is by far the best kite I
              have seen. Everyone who sees it comments on what a great looking kite
              it is, even ARX and AirBlast riders. The construction is more like a
              top of the range paraglider than a kite. It is super stable, much
              more stable and luff resistant than an Arc. I do not exaggerate.

              Unfortunately this stablity comes at the cost of bottom end power. It
              turns slow when underpowered and is hard to work up apparent wind.
              Once up and planing it's fine. You need to go a size or 2 bigger with
              a Vector to get the same as a high performance kite like an ARX or
              Air Blast. My Vector 9.0 has slightly less bottom end than an Arc
              1120.

              Greg
            • Greg Walsh
              It looks like my previous reply has gone into net limbo. For construction and stability my Vector 9.0 rates 11 out of 10. Far better than everything else I ve
              Message 6 of 13 , Oct 1, 2001
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                It looks like my previous reply has gone into net limbo. For
                construction and stability my Vector 9.0 rates 11 out of 10. Far
                better than everything else I've seen including the Arc. I'm not
                exaggerating.

                The stability and slow turning speed means the Vector 9.0 has very
                poor low end power. I just can't turn it fast enough to get it up and
                planing in under 10 knots (80kg, 195cm directional). Once it's up and
                planing it's fine. The Vector is aimed at the beginner-intermediate
                market. I haven't tried the speed system yet.

                Greg
              • michael758@excite.com
                Flysurfer is also built really well. It is also basically a quality paraglider. I have the Mastair 12 and I prefer it to my AB 16.4 and 11.8 for 9-14 mph
                Message 7 of 13 , Oct 1, 2001
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                  Flysurfer is also built really well. It is also basically a quality
                  paraglider. I have the Mastair 12 and I prefer it to my AB 16.4 and
                  11.8 for 9-14 mph winds. I will buy the 16 too.
                  Michael (Greece)



                  --- In kitesurf@y..., "Greg Walsh" <gregwal@e...> wrote:
                  > For build quality and stability the Vector is by far the best kite
                  I
                  > have seen. Everyone who sees it comments on what a great looking
                  kite
                  > it is, even ARX and AirBlast riders. The construction is more like
                  a
                  > top of the range paraglider than a kite. It is super stable, much
                  > more stable and luff resistant than an Arc. I do not exaggerate.
                  >
                  > Unfortunately this stablity comes at the cost of bottom end power.
                  It
                  > turns slow when underpowered and is hard to work up apparent wind.
                  > Once up and planing it's fine. You need to go a size or 2 bigger
                  with
                  > a Vector to get the same as a high performance kite like an ARX or
                  > Air Blast. My Vector 9.0 has slightly less bottom end than an Arc
                  > 1120.
                  >
                  > Greg
                • Kitepower
                  Every kite I have seen built by a paraglider company has been overconstructed, with heavy armoured bridling and excessive reinforcing. What this does is
                  Message 8 of 13 , Oct 2, 2001
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                    Every kite I have seen built by a "paraglider company" has been
                    overconstructed, with heavy "armoured" bridling and excessive reinforcing.
                    What this does is make the kite weigh too much and it has no bottom end.
                    Get your kites from KITE companys!

                    Cya and
                    Goodwinds
                    Steve McCormack
                    http://www.kitepower.com.au
                    mailto:sydney@...
                    Open 7 days
                    126 Beach St, Coogee, Sydney, Australia 2034
                    Phone +61293157894

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: michael758@... [mailto:michael758@...]
                    Sent: 02 October, 2001 4:42 PM
                    To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [ksurf] Flysurfer foils vs Boom Vector


                    Flysurfer is also built really well. It is also basically a quality
                    paraglider. I have the Mastair 12 and I prefer it to my AB 16.4 and
                    11.8 for 9-14 mph winds. I will buy the 16 too.
                    Michael (Greece)



                    --- In kitesurf@y..., "Greg Walsh" <gregwal@e...> wrote:
                    > For build quality and stability the Vector is by far the best kite
                    I
                    > have seen. Everyone who sees it comments on what a great looking
                    kite
                    > it is, even ARX and AirBlast riders. The construction is more like
                    a
                    > top of the range paraglider than a kite. It is super stable, much
                    > more stable and luff resistant than an Arc. I do not exaggerate.
                    >
                    > Unfortunately this stablity comes at the cost of bottom end power.
                    It
                    > turns slow when underpowered and is hard to work up apparent wind.
                    > Once up and planing it's fine. You need to go a size or 2 bigger
                    with
                    > a Vector to get the same as a high performance kite like an ARX or
                    > Air Blast. My Vector 9.0 has slightly less bottom end than an Arc
                    > 1120.
                    >
                    > Greg


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                  • Greg Walsh
                    ... reinforcing. ... end. ... Hey Steve I went and weighed my kites cause I thought you might be onto something being the old skygod-on-a-string that you are.
                    Message 9 of 13 , Oct 2, 2001
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                      --- In kitesurf@y..., "Kitepower" <kitepower@b...> wrote:
                      > Every kite I have seen built by a "paraglider company" has been
                      > overconstructed, with heavy "armoured" bridling and excessive
                      reinforcing.
                      > What this does is make the kite weigh too much and it has no bottom
                      end.
                      > Get your kites from KITE companys!
                      >
                      > Cya and
                      > Goodwinds
                      > Steve McCormack
                      > http://www.kitepower.com.au
                      > mailto:sydney@k...
                      > Open 7 days
                      > 126 Beach St, Coogee, Sydney, Australia 2034
                      > Phone +61293157894

                      Hey Steve

                      I went and weighed my kites cause I thought you might be onto
                      something being the old skygod-on-a-string that you are.

                      Naish AR5 11.5 2850g
                      ConceptAir WaveEx 7.2 1500g
                      Vector 9.0 2100g

                      If you scale up the size of the WaveEx to 9.0 it should weigh about
                      1870g so the Vector is about 250g overweight. Not too obese for a
                      kite with half d-ribs. I could be wrong but I doubt if 250 grams is
                      enough to make the difference between a kite that works and a kite
                      that doesn't. Personally I suspect the cause of the poor bottom end
                      of the Vector 9.0 is the low AR and the slow turning speed.

                      BTW. Wipika and Kiteski were the only companies producing
                      relaunchable kitesurf kites more than three years ago. Naish are the
                      market leaders and Cabrinha and North are the up and comers.
                      ConceptAir and F-One are relative newcomers and Flexifloil still
                      have't produced a relaunchable foil that their team riders will use.
                      Personally I think kitesurf wings bear as much resemblance to kites
                      as a stealth bomber does to a Cessna.
                    • Rainer Leuschke
                      ... Seems to me that the 9.0 vector is somewhere between 11.5 and 15.5 Naish equivalent. 13.5 maybe? R!
                      Message 10 of 13 , Oct 2, 2001
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                        On Mon, 1 Oct 2001, Greg Walsh wrote:
                        > My Vector 9.0 has slightly less bottom end than an Arc
                        > 1120.

                        Seems to me that the 9.0 vector is somewhere between 11.5 and 15.5 Naish
                        equivalent. 13.5 maybe?
                        R!
                      • mikes1p@email.com
                        ... What companies? What kites? I would like avoid them since I am still looking to buy a smaller kite To my knowledge and from what I gather from their
                        Message 11 of 13 , Oct 2, 2001
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                          > Every kite I have seen built by a "paraglider company" has been
                          > overconstructed, with heavy "armoured" bridling and excessive
                          > reinforcing.
                          What companies? What kites? I would like avoid them since I am still
                          looking to buy a smaller kite

                          To my knowledge and from what I gather from their websites, FlySurfer
                          and Boom are Kitesurfing companies, not Paraglider companies (unless
                          they are hiding something). They say they have staff that has a
                          paragliding background though.

                          Compared to my F-One the FlySurfer MastAir is built lighter,
                          especially the bridle with unsleeved spectra, F-One uses sleeved
                          bridle lines that are stiffer and sort themselves out faster which I
                          like, but on a big kite it would add weight and drag, which you don't
                          want in light wind. My Mastair 12M is awesome in low wind

                          Mike

                          > Every kite I have seen built by a "paraglider company" has been
                          > overconstructed, with heavy "armoured" bridling and excessive
                          reinforcing.
                          > What this does is make the kite weigh too much and it has no bottom
                          end.
                          > Get your kites from KITE companys!
                          >
                          > Cya and
                          > Goodwinds
                          > Steve McCormack
                          > http://www.kitepower.com.au
                          > mailto:sydney@k...
                          > Open 7 days
                          > 126 Beach St, Coogee, Sydney, Australia 2034
                          > Phone +61293157894
                          >
                          > -----Original Message-----
                          > From: michael758@e... [mailto:michael758@e...]
                          > Sent: 02 October, 2001 4:42 PM
                          > To: kitesurf@y...
                          > Subject: Re: [ksurf] Flysurfer foils vs Boom Vector
                          >
                          >
                          > Flysurfer is also built really well. It is also basically a quality
                          > paraglider. I have the Mastair 12 and I prefer it to my AB 16.4 and
                          > 11.8 for 9-14 mph winds. I will buy the 16 too.
                          > Michael (Greece)
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In kitesurf@y..., "Greg Walsh" <gregwal@e...> wrote:
                          > > For build quality and stability the Vector is by far the best kite
                          > I
                          > > have seen. Everyone who sees it comments on what a great looking
                          > kite
                          > > it is, even ARX and AirBlast riders. The construction is more like
                          > a
                          > > top of the range paraglider than a kite. It is super stable, much
                          > > more stable and luff resistant than an Arc. I do not exaggerate.
                          > >
                          > > Unfortunately this stablity comes at the cost of bottom end power.
                          > It
                          > > turns slow when underpowered and is hard to work up apparent wind.
                          > > Once up and planing it's fine. You need to go a size or 2 bigger
                          > with
                          > > a Vector to get the same as a high performance kite like an ARX or
                          > > Air Blast. My Vector 9.0 has slightly less bottom end than an Arc
                          > > 1120.
                          > >
                          > > Greg
                          >
                          >
                          > Support your local kitesurf association !
                          >
                          >
                          > <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-
                          unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>
                          >
                          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        • Kitepower
                          Hi Greg I will weigh a Blade 2, 9.0M and let you know, but it appears to be a heavy kite, weight is only one contributing cause of low wind performance though.
                          Message 12 of 13 , Oct 2, 2001
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                            Hi Greg
                            I will weigh a Blade 2, 9.0M and let you know, but it appears to be a heavy
                            kite, weight is only one contributing cause of low wind performance though.
                            The "buy your kites from kite companies" was not meant to be taken seriously
                            as there are hardly any specialist kite makers in the Kitesurf market.

                            Cya and
                            Goodwinds
                            Steve McCormack
                            http://www.kitepower.com.au
                            mailto:sydney@...
                            126 Beach St, Coogee, NSW, Australia 2034
                            Open 7 Days 9.30 - 5.30
                            Also at 386 Latrobe Terrace Geelong Vic
                            mailto:geelong@...

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Greg Walsh [mailto:gregwal@...]
                            Sent: Tuesday, 2 October 2001 8:55
                            To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [ksurf] Flysurfer foils vs Boom Vector


                            --- In kitesurf@y..., "Kitepower" <kitepower@b...> wrote:
                            > Every kite I have seen built by a "paraglider company" has been
                            > overconstructed, with heavy "armoured" bridling and excessive
                            reinforcing.
                            > What this does is make the kite weigh too much and it has no bottom
                            end.
                            > Get your kites from KITE companys!
                            >
                            > Cya and
                            > Goodwinds
                            > Steve McCormack
                            > http://www.kitepower.com.au
                            > mailto:sydney@k...
                            > Open 7 days
                            > 126 Beach St, Coogee, Sydney, Australia 2034
                            > Phone +61293157894

                            Hey Steve

                            I went and weighed my kites cause I thought you might be onto
                            something being the old skygod-on-a-string that you are.

                            Naish AR5 11.5 2850g
                            ConceptAir WaveEx 7.2 1500g
                            Vector 9.0 2100g

                            If you scale up the size of the WaveEx to 9.0 it should weigh about
                            1870g so the Vector is about 250g overweight. Not too obese for a
                            kite with half d-ribs. I could be wrong but I doubt if 250 grams is
                            enough to make the difference between a kite that works and a kite
                            that doesn't. Personally I suspect the cause of the poor bottom end
                            of the Vector 9.0 is the low AR and the slow turning speed.

                            BTW. Wipika and Kiteski were the only companies producing
                            relaunchable kitesurf kites more than three years ago. Naish are the
                            market leaders and Cabrinha and North are the up and comers.
                            ConceptAir and F-One are relative newcomers and Flexifloil still
                            have't produced a relaunchable foil that their team riders will use.
                            Personally I think kitesurf wings bear as much resemblance to kites
                            as a stealth bomber does to a Cessna.



                            Support your local kitesurf association !


                            <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>

                            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                          • mike
                            Aloha, If you plan tyo get a 16 you need to place your order soon. Their is limited amount on the way and you want to be assured to of getting one. I am in
                            Message 13 of 13 , Oct 3, 2001
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                              Aloha,

                              If you plan tyo get a 16 you need to place your order soon. Their is limited amount on the way and you want to be assured to of getting one. I am in Southern CA Thursday at Kites ect and SD on the weekend.

                              MT

                              Michael Theriault
                              2 Zocco Lane
                              Oceanport, NJ 07757
                              732-229-4131


                              ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
                              From: "Kitepower" <kitepower@...>
                              Reply-To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                              Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 17:36:25 +1000

                              >Every kite I have seen built by a "paraglider company" has been
                              >overconstructed, with heavy "armoured" bridling and excessive reinforcing.
                              >What this does is make the kite weigh too much and it has no bottom end.
                              >Get your kites from KITE companys!
                              >
                              >Cya and
                              >Goodwinds
                              >Steve McCormack
                              >http://www.kitepower.com.au
                              >mailto:sydney@...
                              >Open 7 days
                              >126 Beach St, Coogee, Sydney, Australia 2034
                              >Phone +61293157894
                              >
                              >-----Original Message-----
                              >From: michael758@... [mailto:michael758@...]
                              >Sent: 02 October, 2001 4:42 PM
                              >To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                              >Subject: Re: [ksurf] Flysurfer foils vs Boom Vector
                              >
                              >
                              >Flysurfer is also built really well. It is also basically a quality
                              >paraglider. I have the Mastair 12 and I prefer it to my AB 16.4 and
                              >11.8 for 9-14 mph winds. I will buy the 16 too.
                              > Michael (Greece)
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >--- In kitesurf@y..., "Greg Walsh" <gregwal@e...> wrote:
                              >> For build quality and stability the Vector is by far the best kite
                              >I
                              >> have seen. Everyone who sees it comments on what a great looking
                              >kite
                              >> it is, even ARX and AirBlast riders. The construction is more like
                              >a
                              >> top of the range paraglider than a kite. It is super stable, much
                              >> more stable and luff resistant than an Arc. I do not exaggerate.
                              >>
                              >> Unfortunately this stablity comes at the cost of bottom end power.
                              >It
                              >> turns slow when underpowered and is hard to work up apparent wind.
                              >> Once up and planing it's fine. You need to go a size or 2 bigger
                              >with
                              >> a Vector to get the same as a high performance kite like an ARX or
                              >> Air Blast. My Vector 9.0 has slightly less bottom end than an Arc
                              >> 1120.
                              >>
                              >> Greg
                              >
                              >
                              >Support your local kitesurf association !
                              >
                              >
                              ><<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>
                              >
                              >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >Support your local kitesurf association !
                              >
                              >
                              ><<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>
                              >
                              >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                              >
                              >
                              >
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