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[ksurf] Re: Arc and Quadrifoil bar

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  • thorpes@arklogic.com
    ... I m sure it would work just fine - my only reservation is the (small) possibility that when you need it most the release mechanism may be hard to find. ...
    Message 1 of 21 , Sep 1, 2001
      > > --- In kitesurf@y..., Mel <kitebord@p...> wrote:

      > ..Fair enough. I was really just curious if you guys
      > thought it wouldn't function at all (even at a lower
      > safety level) so I didn't need to bother trying it.

      I'm sure it would work just fine - my only reservation
      is the (small) possibility that when you need it most
      the release mechanism may be hard to find.

      > Personally I've never been that badly thrashed by the
      > relatively docile ARC. In fact I seem to have progressed
      > beyond bad thrashings with inflatables too.

      Well I'm FAR behind you there - though the thrashing that
      I did get was when I was still feeling out the range and
      I took my 1120 out way overpowered - not to mention I was
      still a real novice at the time.

      And I also carry around the results of getting a bit
      overconfident on my paraglider when as a competition pilot
      with many hours logged I thought I could handle anything my
      glider could throw at me. Well one day I found that my glider
      had many more tricks up its sleeve than I'd imagined and now
      I'm about 3/4 shorter. :( So since I always have a bit of
      trepidation about the problems I can't even imagine I rarely
      pass up an opportunity to protect myself as well as possible-
      within reason - against the chaos that I can imagine.


      > ..I've NEVER felt the need to release from the leash itself,
      > which would eliminate the need for the second snap shackle

      I've also never YET felt the need to release from the
      leash itself, but you know the rest ...

      Steve T.
    • jmullmd@home.com
      ... Steve... You seem to be of normal height to me. Were you once about 24 feet tall or do you mean a certain part of you is now 3/4 shorter? John
      Message 2 of 21 , Sep 1, 2001
        --- In kitesurf@y..., thorpes@a... wrote:
        >...and now I'm about 3/4 shorter. :(
        > Steve T.

        Steve...

        You seem to be of normal height to me. Were you once about 24 feet tall
        or do you mean a certain part of you is now 3/4 shorter?

        John
      • Mel
        ... Okay. Thanks. I ll try it after I find the ideal wedged 840 adjustment strap length (& then replace it with plain line). ... Better safe than sorry. I
        Message 3 of 21 , Sep 1, 2001
          <thorpes@...> wrote:

          > I'm sure it would work just fine

          Okay. Thanks. I'll try it after I find the ideal wedged 840 adjustment
          strap length (& then replace it with plain line).

          >- my only reservation
          > is the (small) possibility that when you need it most
          > the release mechanism may be hard to find.

          Better safe than sorry. I already have my release positioned "unsafely" at
          the top of my strap, so if anything my new idea should be safer since it'll
          be closer (I can shorten all the leaders since I won't need the extra length
          for adjustment range).

          Mel
        • Kitepower
          Steve Thorpe wrote, Well one day I found that my glider had many more tricks up its sleeve than I d imagined and now I m about 3/4 shorter. :( 3/4 shorter =
          Message 4 of 21 , Sep 1, 2001
            Steve Thorpe wrote,

            Well one day I found that my glider
            had many more tricks up its sleeve than I'd imagined and now
            I'm about 3/4 shorter. :(

            3/4 shorter = crushed vertebra?



            Cya and
            Goodwinds
            Steve McCormack
            http://www.kitepower.com.au
            mailto:sydney@...
            126 Beach St, Coogee, NSW, Australia 2034
            Open 7 Days 9.30 - 5.30
            Also at 386 Latrobe Terrace Geelong Vic
            mailto:geelong@...

            -----Original Message-----
            From: thorpes@... [mailto:thorpes@...]
            Sent: Sunday, 2 September 2001 6:26
            To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [ksurf] Re: Arc and Quadrifoil bar


            > > --- In kitesurf@y..., Mel <kitebord@p...> wrote:

            > ..Fair enough. I was really just curious if you guys
            > thought it wouldn't function at all (even at a lower
            > safety level) so I didn't need to bother trying it.

            I'm sure it would work just fine - my only reservation
            is the (small) possibility that when you need it most
            the release mechanism may be hard to find.

            > Personally I've never been that badly thrashed by the
            > relatively docile ARC. In fact I seem to have progressed
            > beyond bad thrashings with inflatables too.

            Well I'm FAR behind you there - though the thrashing that
            I did get was when I was still feeling out the range and
            I took my 1120 out way overpowered - not to mention I was
            still a real novice at the time.

            And I also carry around the results of getting a bit
            overconfident on my paraglider when as a competition pilot
            with many hours logged I thought I could handle anything my
            glider could throw at me. Well one day I found that my glider
            had many more tricks up its sleeve than I'd imagined and now
            I'm about 3/4 shorter. :( So since I always have a bit of
            trepidation about the problems I can't even imagine I rarely
            pass up an opportunity to protect myself as well as possible-
            within reason - against the chaos that I can imagine.


            > ..I've NEVER felt the need to release from the leash itself,
            > which would eliminate the need for the second snap shackle

            I've also never YET felt the need to release from the
            leash itself, but you know the rest ...

            Steve T.



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          • thorpes@arklogic.com
            ... L4 & L5 :( Steve T.
            Message 5 of 21 , Sep 1, 2001
              --- In kitesurf@y..., "Kitepower" <kitepower@b...> wrote:
              >
              > Steve Thorpe wrote,
              >
              > Well one day I found that my glider
              > had many more tricks up its sleeve than I'd imagined and now
              > I'm about 3/4 shorter. :(
              >
              > 3/4 shorter = crushed vertebra?
              >

              L4 & L5 :(


              Steve T.
            • Kitepower
              Me too I used to 6 11 , now I m only 5 5 I ve lost about an inch!! :-) T7,T8,L1,L2,L3 and L4 Cya and Goodwinds Steve McCormack http://www.kitepower.com.au
              Message 6 of 21 , Sep 2, 2001
                Me too I used to 6'11", now I'm only 5'5" I've lost about an inch!! :-)
                T7,T8,L1,L2,L3 and L4

                Cya and
                Goodwinds
                Steve McCormack
                http://www.kitepower.com.au
                mailto:sydney@...
                126 Beach St, Coogee, NSW, Australia 2034
                Open 7 Days 9.30 - 5.30
                Also at 386 Latrobe Terrace Geelong Vic
                mailto:geelong@...

                -----Original Message-----
                From: thorpes@... [mailto:thorpes@...]
                Sent: Sunday, 2 September 2001 4:16
                To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [ksurf] Re: Arc and Quadrifoil bar


                --- In kitesurf@y..., "Kitepower" <kitepower@b...> wrote:
                >
                > Steve Thorpe wrote,
                >
                > Well one day I found that my glider
                > had many more tricks up its sleeve than I'd imagined and now
                > I'm about 3/4 shorter. :(
                >
                > 3/4 shorter = crushed vertebra?
                >

                L4 & L5 :(


                Steve T.


                This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com
                For Kitesurfers by Kitesurfers

                http://www.KiteHigh.com

                Win Board or Cabrinha Kite sweepstakes on now.

                1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA
                808 579 9849
                Email:support@...

                <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>

                Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              • Stefano Rosso
                ... Has ANYONE actually ever released a snap shackle in a REAL emergency situation ? I got some friends that are getting shackle happy but in all my kitemares
                Message 7 of 21 , Sep 3, 2001
                  >
                  > > ..I've NEVER felt the need to release from the leash itself,
                  > > which would eliminate the need for the second snap shackle
                  >
                  > I've also never YET felt the need to release from the
                  > leash itself, but you know the rest ...

                  Has ANYONE actually ever released a snap shackle in a REAL emergency
                  situation ?

                  I got some friends that are getting shackle happy but in all my kitemares i
                  get lifted, thrashed so damn bad that my ONLY reaction is to hang onto the
                  bar... and this makes a lot of sense when i am anything over 10 feet
                  up...which is normally where i find myself after i come to my senses after
                  the initial GRIP of DEATH reaction !
                • Roland Andrag
                  ... Yes, I was sailing upwind of a really ugly barbed wire fence (running into the water to seperate someone s property from the launching area), lost my egde
                  Message 8 of 21 , Sep 3, 2001
                    >
                    > Has ANYONE actually ever released a snap shackle in a REAL emergency
                    > situation ?

                    Yes, I was sailing upwind of a really ugly barbed wire fence (running into
                    the water to seperate someone's property from the launching area), lost my
                    egde at exactly the wrong moment, pulled the snap shackle and stopped 2 m
                    from the fence. If I'd been in the chicken loop (or locked in the wipika
                    loop!) I would most probably have been hurt, hitting the fence right about
                    when I would have been powering up to release.

                    Roland
                  • thorpes@arklogic.com
                    ... My comment ( and I though Mel s too) was refering to the total kite- release snap shackle - not the leash shackle. I definitely HAVE used the leash
                    Message 9 of 21 , Sep 3, 2001
                      --- In kitesurf@y..., Stefano Rosso <stefano@o...> wrote:

                      Mel wrote:
                      > > > ..I've NEVER felt the need to release from the leash itself,
                      > > > which would eliminate the need for the second snap shackle

                      Steve T. wrote:
                      > > *I've also never YET felt the need to release from the
                      > > leash itself, but you know the rest ...
                      >
                      > Has ANYONE actually ever released a snap shackle in a REAL
                      > emergency situation ?
                      >
                      > I got some friends that are getting shackle happy but in all
                      > my kitemares i get lifted, thrashed so damn bad that my ONLY
                      > reaction is to hang onto the bar...

                      My comment ( and I though Mel's too) was refering to the total kite-
                      release snap shackle - not the "leash" shackle. I definitely HAVE
                      used the leash shackle a couple of times - before I'd "mastered" the
                      downwind launch on my Arcs I used it one when I started getting
                      dragged dangerously close to a rock levee. A second time when I
                      started getting tea-bagged in suddenly overpowered conditions - in
                      about 1 ft of water! After two lucky landings I decided that pulling
                      leash shackle was a good idea.

                      As far as the total release shackle is concerned - yes I know that
                      kind of emergency is rare--crashing on to a car passing in a parking
                      lot (seen it happen) getting completely tangled in someone elses kite
                      which then takes off at full power- removing your steering AND leash
                      options in one go (seen it happen) but for a $20 shackle why take the
                      risk of being permanently and irreversibly attached to the kite?

                      Of course if you use a regular wrist or harness mounted leash you
                      don't need a "leashing" shackle and if you don't ride permenaently
                      attached to the kite you don't need a total-release shackle.

                      Steve T.
                    • Stefano Rosso
                      ... Me too ! ... I agree totally... but i have some friends that are getting too confident because they now have shackles (leash, loop whatever) seems to me
                      Message 10 of 21 , Sep 4, 2001
                        >
                        > > I got some friends that are getting shackle happy but in all
                        > > my kitemares i get lifted, thrashed so damn bad that my ONLY
                        > > reaction is to hang onto the bar...
                        >
                        > My comment ( and I though Mel's too) was refering to the total kite-
                        > release snap shackle - not the "leash" shackle.

                        Me too !


                        > I definitely HAVE
                        > used the leash shackle a couple of times - before I'd "mastered" the
                        > downwind launch on my Arcs I used it one when I started getting
                        > dragged dangerously close to a rock levee. A second time when I
                        > started getting tea-bagged in suddenly overpowered conditions - in
                        > about 1 ft of water! After two lucky landings I decided that pulling
                        > leash shackle was a good idea.
                        >
                        > As far as the total release shackle is concerned - yes I know that
                        > kind of emergency is rare--crashing on to a car passing in a parking
                        > lot (seen it happen) getting completely tangled in someone elses kite
                        > which then takes off at full power- removing your steering AND leash
                        > options in one go (seen it happen) but for a $20 shackle why take the
                        > risk of being permanently and irreversibly attached to the kite?

                        I agree totally... but i have some friends that are getting too confident
                        because they now have shackles (leash, loop whatever)

                        seems to me that the most sensible thing is not to ride upwind of barbed wire
                        !! doesnt matter if you have a shackle or not !
                      • Roland Andrag
                        ... wire ... I agree fully with that statement. Basically I was making it back to the landing area in a fading wind, and had lost a lot of ground on the way
                        Message 11 of 21 , Sep 4, 2001
                          > seems to me that the most sensible thing is not to ride upwind of barbed
                          wire
                          > !! doesnt matter if you have a shackle or not !

                          I agree fully with that statement. Basically I was making it back to the
                          landing area in a fading wind, and had lost a lot of ground on the way in,
                          hence did not have the 200 m buffer normally kept. I had the choice of
                          stopping before the fence or after, and wrongly decided to push on past it
                          (since I was going well and it was the home stretch of 30 m), very dumb.
                          Gust hits, edge goes, water spraying everywhere, did not know where the
                          fence was until I had stopped, having pulled the leash shackle. Was glad I
                          had the shackle. Also shackle played no role in my deciding to pass the
                          fence (although if I didn't have a shackle I would probably have unhooked
                          from the chicken loop, since I was fully aware I was doing something
                          stupid).

                          Roland
                        • thorpes@arklogic.com
                          ... I guess this is what differentiates good kitesurfers from bad - the bad ones don t know when they re doing something stupid ;-) Steve T.
                          Message 12 of 21 , Sep 4, 2001
                            --- In kitesurf@y..., "Roland Andrag" <randrag@i...> wrote:

                            >... Also shackle played no role in my deciding to pass
                            > the fence ...

                            >...I was fully aware I was doing something stupid.


                            I guess this is what differentiates good kitesurfers from
                            bad - the bad ones don't know when they're doing something
                            stupid ;-)

                            Steve T.
                          • jmullmd@home.com
                            ... Sometimes the more foolish ones are easily identified by the bandages, casts, duct tape, cervical halos, staples, clips and joint immobilizers they are
                            Message 13 of 21 , Sep 4, 2001
                              --- In kitesurf@y..., thorpes@a... wrote:
                              > --- In kitesurf@y..., "Roland Andrag" <randrag@i...> wrote:
                              >
                              > >... Also shackle played no role in my deciding to pass
                              > > the fence ...
                              >
                              > >...I was fully aware I was doing something stupid.
                              >
                              >
                              > I guess this is what differentiates good kitesurfers from
                              > bad - the bad ones don't know when they're doing something
                              > stupid ;-)
                              >
                              > Steve T.

                              Sometimes the more foolish ones are easily identified by the
                              bandages, casts, duct tape, cervical halos, staples, clips and joint
                              immobilizers they are wearing at the beach...the kind of thing our
                              buddy Traig wears around nearly every day of his injury-prone life.

                              John
                            • Mel
                              ... Once again, better to hover low (away from land in this case!), then you just get dragged instead of lifted. I launch inflatables in thigh deep water, &
                              Message 14 of 21 , Sep 5, 2001
                                <thorpes@...> wrote:

                                > I definitely HAVE
                                > used the leash shackle a couple of times ... A second time when I
                                > started getting tea-bagged in suddenly overpowered conditions - in
                                > about 1 ft of water! After two lucky landings I decided that pulling
                                > leash shackle was a good idea.

                                Once again, better to hover low (away from land in this case!), then you
                                just get dragged instead of lifted. I launch inflatables in thigh deep
                                water, & if I get lifted I fly the kite out, so I land planing on the water,
                                instead of a hard surface (like shallow water).

                                > As far as the total release shackle ...
                                > getting completely tangled in someone elses kite ...

                                Oh yeah! Thanks. I hadn't thought about that in a while, even though I try
                                to remember to use that as an example of why to use a leash (for those who
                                think they don't need it just because THEY have good skills).

                                > if you don't ride permenaently
                                > attached to the kite you don't need a total-release shackle.

                                I guess, but in order to be equally safe, you'd still need a trim loop
                                shackle.

                                Mel
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