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Re: [ksurf] Flap Or Zip ( Arc)

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  • Mel
    ... So Peter Lynn switched from roll on bottom to roll on top, where it s harder to work with and less aerodynamic. I wonder if there s a reason. ... I d
    Message 1 of 13 , Aug 31 2:03 PM
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      <thorpes@...> wrote:

      > Mel <kitebord@p...> wrote:
      >
      > >... Is your 1120 (roll on bottom) older or newer
      > > than your 840? (roll on top)
      >
      > Older

      So Peter Lynn switched from roll on bottom to roll on top, where it's harder
      to work with and less aerodynamic. I wonder if there's a reason.

      > The "free" end of the inlet is sewn to the top
      > surface ... stop it inverting under pressure.

      I'd think the mesh would accomplish that.

      > I may be wrong but I think your inverted butt-hole idea would
      > blow out long before the burrito roll.

      I understand your theory now (thanks). That would be cool. Anybody
      volunteer to fold their flap in, seal the Velcro, & crash LE down? If it
      does blow out long before the roll* then no damage would result, but it
      could mean it will pre-release during use. The solution could be wider
      Velcro. Peter Lynn could experiment & we'd end up with cleaner TEs that
      release under just the right pressure. It would still allow use of my idea
      to Velcro mesh into the valve to reduce sand entry, but allow it's removal.
      *Maybe I should have said "eggroll" - that's a closer size.

      Mel
    • thorpes@arklogic.com
      ... Maybe it would to some extent but if the valve partially inverted can you imagine what a job it might be to get it back into position with the mesh
      Message 2 of 13 , Aug 31 2:13 PM
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        > <thorpes@a...> wrote:

        > > The "free" end of the inlet is sewn to the top
        > > surface ... stop it inverting under pressure.

        --- Mel <kitebord@p...> wrote:

        > I'd think the mesh would accomplish that.

        Maybe it would to some extent but if the valve partially
        inverted can you imagine what a job it might be to get
        it back into position with the mesh preventing you
        from getting your hand inside.

        > ...Anybody volunteer to fold their flap in, seal the
        Velcro, & crash LE down?

        I don't volunteer to crash my kite for any reason but I'd
        be willing to bet I can blow an "inverted" butt-hole by
        just sitting hard on the fully inflated kite - I'll try
        it next time out and let you know.

        Steve T.
      • Mel
        ... Thank you. Maybe try the same thing with the eggroll, to make sure it doesn t release under the same conditions, because if it DOES, then we can just seal
        Message 3 of 13 , Aug 31 2:42 PM
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          <thorpes@...> wrote:

          > I'd
          > be willing to bet I can blow an "inverted" butt-hole by
          > just sitting hard on the fully inflated kite - I'll try
          > it next time out and let you know.

          Thank you. Maybe try the same thing with the eggroll, to make sure it
          doesn't release under the same conditions, because if it DOES, then we can
          just seal them inverted & not have to bother with rolling or causing that
          extra drag.

          Mel
        • bnow@earthlink.net
          I just bet if an extra Velcro strip were added to the inside of the flap material, so that you would first seal the end of the flap, and then roll it up and
          Message 4 of 13 , Aug 31 6:20 PM
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            I just bet if an extra Velcro strip were added to the inside of the
            flap material, so that you would first seal the end of the flap, and
            then roll it up and seal the existing Velcro flap, that it would do
            the trick. In fact it may be just about right to accomplish two
            things. The butthole Velcro may still come undone on a hard impact
            allowing a small pressure relief to mitigate bursting the kite, but
            the second Velcro that would probably survive the initial blast so
            that you can still fly the kite home. You could even experiment to
            make the flap long enough to allow for more pressure relief if
            needed. The other thing if you are not concerned about pressure
            relief is to just replace the standard Velcro with earthquake
            Velcro. I can almost guarantee that stuff would not come loose under
            warp speed crashes. For those who have never seen earthquake Velcro,
            it is very heavy duty and uses a different type of connection other
            than the standard hook and loop Velcro. You can usually find it at a
            hardware store. It is commonly used to secure TV's to their stand,
            and strap them down in case of an earthquake.


            --- In kitesurf@y..., Mel <kitebord@p...> wrote:
            > <thorpes@a...> wrote:
            >
            > > I'd
            > > be willing to bet I can blow an "inverted" butt-hole by
            > > just sitting hard on the fully inflated kite - I'll try
            > > it next time out and let you know.
            >
            > Thank you. Maybe try the same thing with the eggroll, to make sure
            it
            > doesn't release under the same conditions, because if it DOES, then
            we can
            > just seal them inverted & not have to bother with rolling or
            causing that
            > extra drag.
            >
            > Mel
          • jmullmd@home.com
            ... Mark, Forest fires, mudslides, bug farts, earthquakes.....the California kitesurfer sure has lots to contend with. The Arizona kitesurfer has it
            Message 5 of 13 , Aug 31 6:54 PM
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              --- In kitesurf@y..., bnow@e... wrote:
              > The other thing if you are not concerned about pressure
              > relief is to just replace the standard Velcro with earthquake
              > Velcro. It is commonly used to secure TV's to their stand,
              > and strap them down in case of an earthquake.

              Mark,

              Forest fires, mudslides, bug farts, earthquakes.....the California
              kitesurfer sure has lots to contend with.

              The Arizona kitesurfer has it made...except for a lack of wind and
              water occurring in the same place at the same time...

              John
            • Mel
              ... You ve given me another idea (by initially misinterpreting what you wrote). If you don t like to roll, but it ends up pre-releasing if you just tuck the
              Message 6 of 13 , Aug 31 10:21 PM
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                <bnow@...> wrote:

                > I just bet if an extra Velcro strip were added to the inside of the
                > flap material, so that you would first seal the end of the flap, ...

                You've given me another idea (by initially misinterpreting what you wrote).
                If you don't like to roll, but it ends up pre-releasing if you just tuck the
                flap in & shut the stock Velcro, I wonder about Velcro on the very END of
                the flap (where you first start rolling).

                >...the second Velcro that would probably survive the initial blast so
                > that you can still fly the kite home. You could even experiment to
                > make the flap long enough to allow for more pressure relief if
                > needed.

                That's an interesting idea too. Maybe instead of a bigger flap you could
                just put some holes in it - big enough to prevent damage, but small enough
                to fly home.

                > The other thing if you are not concerned about pressure
                > relief is to just replace the standard Velcro with earthquake
                > Velcro. I can almost guarantee that stuff would not come loose under
                > warp speed crashes.

                It sounds like what's called "dual lock" Velcro as used to keep SpeedMate
                board speedometers on the board. If you use that, you shouldn't need a
                flap, just the opening that gets sealed shut while flying.

                Maybe no flap, a small piece of dual lock in the center of the opening, &
                normal Velcro on the rest. Alter the proportions of dual to regular for
                correct release (still won't help you get home after release though, but
                neither does the stock system).

                Mel
              • bnow@earthlink.net
                Mel I don t know what you thought I meant, but when you said I wonder about Velcro on the very END of the flap (where you first start rolling ; that is indeed
                Message 7 of 13 , Sep 1, 2001
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                  Mel

                  I don't know what you thought I meant, but when you said "I wonder
                  about Velcro on the very END of the flap (where you first start
                  rolling"; that is indeed the idea I was trying to express. A sail
                  maker could sew the Velcro on in about two minutes flat.

                  Mark





                  <bnow@e...> wrote:

                  > I just bet if an extra Velcro strip were added to the inside of
                  the flap material, so that you would first seal the end of the
                  flap, ...
                  --- In kitesurf@y..., Mel <kitebord@p...> wrote:
                  You've given me another idea (by initially misinterpreting what you
                  wrote). If you don't like to roll, but it ends up pre-releasing if
                  you just tuck the flap in & shut the stock Velcro, I wonder about
                  Velcro on the very END of the flap (where you first start rolling).
                • sjybhunter@westnet.com.au
                  I have just put a piece of velco straping in the trailing edge to hold in the middle of the flap on the back of my 1120. Hopfully in a big crash it will blow
                  Message 8 of 13 , Sep 1, 2001
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                    I have just put a piece of velco straping in the trailing edge to
                    hold in the middle of the flap on the back of my 1120. Hopfully in a
                    big crash it will blow out either end and hold the midlle in so as
                    not to release all the pressure. the bum blow out has only happened
                    a couple of times in the 9 months I have had the kite.

                    Just got the 1120 wedged, not enough wind today to try it out it will
                    be interesting to see how it goes up against the 14.9 RRD as they
                    have simular projected areas. I also picked up a 460 arc today for
                    my wife(honest its for you honey) couldnt help it it was just there
                    in the shop whispering shane buy me buy me and i will take you to the
                    moon. We flew it in the park in 6-8 knots man does it generate some
                    pull when you crank it around and build that apparent wind.

                    I will let ya know how the velcro thing works out.

                    cheers shane
                  • Mel
                    ... With the flap extended outside the kite for deflation, you could put Velcro at the rearmost part where you start rolling, &/or at the foremost part, level
                    Message 9 of 13 , Sep 1, 2001
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                      <bnow@...> wrote:

                      > Mel
                      >
                      > I don't know what you thought I meant, but when you said "I wonder
                      > about Velcro on the very END of the flap (where you first start
                      > rolling"; that is indeed the idea I was trying to express.

                      With the flap extended outside the kite for deflation, you could put Velcro
                      at the rearmost part where you start rolling, &/or at the foremost part,
                      level with the TE.

                      AND <sjybhunter@...> wrote:

                      > Just got the 1120 wedged, not enough wind today to try it out it will
                      > be interesting to see how it goes up against the 14.9 RRD
                      How did the stock 1120 compare?

                      Please let us know your wedged results also.

                      > as they
                      > have similar projected areas.

                      I've just uploaded the latest area spreadsheet, including projected areas &
                      corrected flat spans for wedged ARCs (with or without one or three center
                      cells removed also).

                      1120 (8.0 proj) wedged 12cm. is 1107 (7.9 proj.).
                      14.9 is about 8.4 proj.

                      At 6% smaller, I think the 1107 will have less low end, since the 630 has
                      less than a 7.5 Naish which is only 4% bigger, & wedging shouldn't improve
                      low end much. I'm really curious about the top end though.

                      Mel
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