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RE: [ksurf] cabrinha seam tear, rant, F'ING RANT, RANT, RANT!!!

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  • Lemke, Mike
    Are the Rhino s really durable? I m really getting sick and farking tired of this shit. Many on this group are pissed about projected vs. flat......I m
    Message 1 of 16 , Aug 27, 2001
    • 0 Attachment
      Are the Rhino's really durable? I'm really getting sick and farking tired
      of this shit. Many on this group are pissed about projected vs.
      flat......I'm pissed about strength of kites and gear. I don't go
      huge....just small jumps....and I'm super carefull w/ my kites, yet I'm
      always repairing them. Am I to heavy at 240lbs? Fuck no....If I'm strong
      enough to hold on then my kite and gear aught to hang too.

      Why aren't these things made of real sail material? Why do I need to make
      my own bars that are strong? These are not stunt kites.....these are not
      windsurf sails.....these are not parachutes.....USE PROPER MATERIALS!

      I for one am pissed. No more recalls....no more ripped panels.....no more
      broken webbing adjusters.....

      SOMEONE make a kite that lasts a legit year.

      Mike
      Las Vegas,NV

      -----Original Message-----
      From: iclimbtrees@...
      To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: 8/27/01 6:20 PM
      Subject: [ksurf] cabrinha seam tear, rant

      Hey there people.
      I just had a seam blow out on my 12.2 black tip. It was the one
      running down the back of the second strut from the end. I looked
      closely at the rest of the struts where the stitching starts and they
      seemed to be starting to tear as well. Is this common?
      Another peeve I have with this kite is the folded stitching along the
      leading edge is starting to fray, the fabric looks like it is pulling
      apart, I can almost seee the bladder through the fabric. This sucks
      cuz the kite has only been used like 17 times and only crashed a
      couple. The implacts were not real slams either.
      Is there a way of reinforcing the stitching points? Am I pumping
      the bladders too hard?
      This really sucks to spend 1500 bucks on a kite to only get 17 uses
      before repairs have to be made, not including the fucking bladder
      syndrome with these kites!!!!
      I dont see these problems on two year old naish and wipika products.
      disgruntled,
      mika


      This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com
      For Kitesurfers by Kitesurfers

      http://www.KiteHigh.com

      Win Board or Cabrinha Kite sweepstakes on now.

      1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA
      808 579 9849
      Email:support@...

      <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>

      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
      http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    • Tsunamisports
      Mike, the KITESURFER parabolic 2 series have just gone into full production and will be available within the month. I seriously suggest you get to take a look
      Message 2 of 16 , Aug 27, 2001
      • 0 Attachment
        Mike, the KITESURFER parabolic 2 series have just gone into full production
        and will be available within the month. I seriously suggest you get to take
        a look at one of these kites. We have had some early prototypes flying here
        for the last 6 months and after being ridden hard by team riders as well as
        being thrashed around in the surf by beginners, they are looking pretty much
        like the day they arrived.

        The leading edge seams are constructed differently form the other mainstream
        products out there now, as is the material on both the kite body and bladder
        casings.

        No one can ever promise that there will never be any problems, but from what
        I've experienced so far, these guys are definitely worth consideration.

        Do I have a vested interest in these comments? Yes definitely! We will be
        distributing KITESURFER wings locally as I have been absolutely and utterly
        convinced by the product performance and durability I have experienced to
        date. I'm not making this out to be any "silver bullet", and we will still
        be offering many of the other fantastic products out there that are all
        really good in their own way, but if performance AND durability is what you
        want, you need to take a look at these wings.

        I guess I'll sit back now and mentally prepare for the abuse that's sure to
        follow :).

        Shaun Pretorius
        Tsunami Sports

        www.tsunamisports.co.za
        info@...

        Tel: +27 31 2019776
        Fax:+27 31 2019685

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Lemke, Mike [mailto:mike@...]
        Sent: 28 August 2001 04:55
        To: 'kitesurf@yahoogroups.com '
        Subject: RE: [ksurf] cabrinha seam tear, rant, F'ING RANT, RANT, RANT!!!

        Are the Rhino's really durable? I'm really getting sick and farking tired
        of this shit. Many on this group are pissed about projected vs.
        flat......I'm pissed about strength of kites and gear. I don't go
        huge....just small jumps....and I'm super carefull w/ my kites, yet I'm
        always repairing them. Am I to heavy at 240lbs? Fuck no....If I'm strong
        enough to hold on then my kite and gear aught to hang too.

        Why aren't these things made of real sail material? Why do I need to make
        my own bars that are strong? These are not stunt kites.....these are not
        windsurf sails.....these are not parachutes.....USE PROPER MATERIALS!

        I for one am pissed. No more recalls....no more ripped panels.....no more
        broken webbing adjusters.....

        SOMEONE make a kite that lasts a legit year.

        Mike
        Las Vegas,NV

        -----Original Message-----
        From: iclimbtrees@...
        To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: 8/27/01 6:20 PM
        Subject: [ksurf] cabrinha seam tear, rant

        Hey there people.
        I just had a seam blow out on my 12.2 black tip. It was the one
        running down the back of the second strut from the end. I looked
        closely at the rest of the struts where the stitching starts and they
        seemed to be starting to tear as well. Is this common?
        Another peeve I have with this kite is the folded stitching along the
        leading edge is starting to fray, the fabric looks like it is pulling
        apart, I can almost seee the bladder through the fabric. This sucks
        cuz the kite has only been used like 17 times and only crashed a
        couple. The implacts were not real slams either.
        Is there a way of reinforcing the stitching points? Am I pumping
        the bladders too hard?
        This really sucks to spend 1500 bucks on a kite to only get 17 uses
        before repairs have to be made, not including the fucking bladder
        syndrome with these kites!!!!
        I dont see these problems on two year old naish and wipika products.
        disgruntled,
        mika


        This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com
        For Kitesurfers by Kitesurfers

        http://www.KiteHigh.com

        Win Board or Cabrinha Kite sweepstakes on now.

        1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA
        808 579 9849
        Email:support@...

        <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>

        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
        http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


        This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com
        For Kitesurfers by Kitesurfers

        http://www.KiteHigh.com

        Win Board or Cabrinha Kite sweepstakes on now.

        1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA
        808 579 9849
        Email:support@...

        <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>

        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      • Kitepower
        G day Brian and Mike Firstly Brian, no-one here with experience with kites will believe that any kite could be used by pros and thrashed by beginners for 6
        Message 3 of 16 , Aug 28, 2001
        • 0 Attachment
          G'day Brian and Mike

          Firstly Brian, no-one here with experience with kites will believe that any
          kite could be used by pros and thrashed by beginners for 6 months and still
          look like new, and that was not even one of the newer Kitesurfer kites, just
          an early proto!!??
          If they are seriously as good as you say, then you should stop selling Naish
          and Wipika.
          If the kites weigh more due to the use of more durable materials, flight
          performance must suffer at least in the lower range of each kite, mustn't
          it?

          Are the Kitesurfer kites licensed by Wipika?

          Everything on their website seems to be a copy of someone else's stuff, way
          out of date (smallest high wind/advanced rider board 1.99M!!)or just
          incorrect nonsense, flying lines are 250lb Dyneema, or some sort of cheese
          wire!!
          The advice in the beginners section is crazy, it says if you have some board
          skills it is easy to learn to kitesurf.
          Also the sizes and wind ranges seem a bit weird, and they are not cheap
          either.
          They claim they are patenting all sorts of things, including the shape of a
          double parabolic curve, but make no mention of the fact that they are making
          a kite based on the Wipika Patent, and the Kitesurfer logo is a copy of the
          Stonker artwork/logo IMO. It will be curious to see one and be blown away by
          all the awesome improvements!!
          Should I quit all my stock of Naish Wipika and Peter Lynn?

          And Mike, you are a bigger than average person, that alone will put much
          greater loads on your gear, but I know lots of people in your "size " range
          and they are not having to repair their kites all the time like you.
          Kitesurfing puts more load on a kite and its accessories than any other form
          of kite traction, I have seen Naish bars snapped in two by 80kg riders, and
          countless kites damaged by what people think is fair abuse, but the fact
          remains that for a kite to have the characteristics we need for kitesurfing
          ( or even enjoyable sport kiting on land) they need to be built light.
          I remember Peter Lynn telling me over a coffee in Adelaide once that there
          is a certain weight per sq M of sail area that cannot be exceeded if the
          kite is to fly in an acceptable wind range and be durable enough to sell
          commercially, look at how long it has taken him and F-One to produce foil
          sleds in the larger sizes. Don't you think one of the inventors of kites
          would want to have a competitive advantage by having kites that are 2,3 or 5
          times as strong and durable as the competition but with the same performance
          and weight?
          What materials would you suggest they make kites from?
          Without making them more expensive than they are?
          I can think of a few things that would improve durability in some areas, but
          I'm sure these materials, if they existed would make the kites dearer.
          I cannot remember how many spars I broke in the sport kites I love to fly
          for recreation, when learning to do the tricks I can now do without
          thinking.
          I still believe the biggest skill that will give the best durability to any
          brand of kite is kite control.
          But no-one really wants to tell beginners this as it will slow sales down!!!
          If you get a year of constant use from an inflatable you've done well, and
          you will get a bit more from some foils and Peter Lynn Arcs, maybe a couple
          of years.

          Cya and
          Goodwinds
          Steve McCormack
          http://www.kitepower.com.au
          mailto:sydney@...
          126 Beach St, Coogee, NSW, Australia 2034
          Open 7 Days 9.30 - 5.30
          Also at 386 Latrobe Terrace Geelong Vic
          mailto:geelong@...

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Tsunamisports [mailto:info@...]
          Sent: Tuesday, 28 August 2001 4:39
          To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: was: [ksurf] cabrinha seam tear, rant, F'ING RANT, RANT,
          RANT!!! (COM, COM, COM)


          Mike, the KITESURFER parabolic 2 series have just gone into full production
          and will be available within the month. I seriously suggest you get to take
          a look at one of these kites. We have had some early prototypes flying here
          for the last 6 months and after being ridden hard by team riders as well as
          being thrashed around in the surf by beginners, they are looking pretty much
          like the day they arrived.

          The leading edge seams are constructed differently form the other mainstream
          products out there now, as is the material on both the kite body and bladder
          casings.

          No one can ever promise that there will never be any problems, but from what
          I've experienced so far, these guys are definitely worth consideration.

          Do I have a vested interest in these comments? Yes definitely! We will be
          distributing KITESURFER wings locally as I have been absolutely and utterly
          convinced by the product performance and durability I have experienced to
          date. I'm not making this out to be any "silver bullet", and we will still
          be offering many of the other fantastic products out there that are all
          really good in their own way, but if performance AND durability is what you
          want, you need to take a look at these wings.

          I guess I'll sit back now and mentally prepare for the abuse that's sure to
          follow :).

          Shaun Pretorius
          Tsunami Sports

          www.tsunamisports.co.za
          info@...

          Tel: +27 31 2019776
          Fax:+27 31 2019685

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Lemke, Mike [mailto:mike@...]
          Sent: 28 August 2001 04:55
          To: 'kitesurf@yahoogroups.com '
          Subject: RE: [ksurf] cabrinha seam tear, rant, F'ING RANT, RANT, RANT!!!

          Are the Rhino's really durable? I'm really getting sick and farking tired
          of this shit. Many on this group are pissed about projected vs.
          flat......I'm pissed about strength of kites and gear. I don't go
          huge....just small jumps....and I'm super carefull w/ my kites, yet I'm
          always repairing them. Am I to heavy at 240lbs? Fuck no....If I'm strong
          enough to hold on then my kite and gear aught to hang too.

          Why aren't these things made of real sail material? Why do I need to make
          my own bars that are strong? These are not stunt kites.....these are not
          windsurf sails.....these are not parachutes.....USE PROPER MATERIALS!

          I for one am pissed. No more recalls....no more ripped panels.....no more
          broken webbing adjusters.....

          SOMEONE make a kite that lasts a legit year.

          Mike
          Las Vegas,NV

          -----Original Message-----
          From: iclimbtrees@...
          To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: 8/27/01 6:20 PM
          Subject: [ksurf] cabrinha seam tear, rant

          Hey there people.
          I just had a seam blow out on my 12.2 black tip. It was the one
          running down the back of the second strut from the end. I looked
          closely at the rest of the struts where the stitching starts and they
          seemed to be starting to tear as well. Is this common?
          Another peeve I have with this kite is the folded stitching along the
          leading edge is starting to fray, the fabric looks like it is pulling
          apart, I can almost seee the bladder through the fabric. This sucks
          cuz the kite has only been used like 17 times and only crashed a
          couple. The implacts were not real slams either.
          Is there a way of reinforcing the stitching points? Am I pumping
          the bladders too hard?
          This really sucks to spend 1500 bucks on a kite to only get 17 uses
          before repairs have to be made, not including the fucking bladder
          syndrome with these kites!!!!
          I dont see these problems on two year old naish and wipika products.
          disgruntled,
          mika


          This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com
          For Kitesurfers by Kitesurfers

          http://www.KiteHigh.com

          Win Board or Cabrinha Kite sweepstakes on now.

          1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA
          808 579 9849
          Email:support@...

          <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>

          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


          This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com
          For Kitesurfers by Kitesurfers

          http://www.KiteHigh.com

          Win Board or Cabrinha Kite sweepstakes on now.

          1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA
          808 579 9849
          Email:support@...

          <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>

          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




          This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com
          For Kitesurfers by Kitesurfers

          http://www.KiteHigh.com

          Win Board or Cabrinha Kite sweepstakes on now.

          1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA
          808 579 9849
          Email:support@...

          <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>

          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        • Tsunamisports
          Steve, Frankly you have the biggest mouth on this forum and as long as everyone backs off and agrees with your sentiments all is Cool. Well frankly you have
          Message 4 of 16 , Aug 29, 2001
          • 0 Attachment
            Steve,

            Frankly you have the biggest mouth on this forum and as long as everyone
            backs off and agrees with your sentiments all is Cool. Well frankly you have
            LOTS to learn.
            You are welcome to come and verify my statements on the KS wings if you
            wish, otherwise give me the same courtesy and credibility you would expect
            others to show you as you are basically calling me a liar which is unfounded
            and really out of line. I made it clear that we still supply other brands
            and I have in fact flown predominantly Naish kites over the past 2 years and
            I have found them to be awesome kites. The latest batch of AR-X's are
            looking really excellent in the construction department and I do believe
            that they are an Excellent product.

            The issue at hand was about long-term durability and I think my suggestion
            was for Mike to TAKE A LOOK AT ONE. Not to dump everything he has and rush
            out and change his entire quiver. But then I suppose even this might be
            threat to your perceived "kingdom?"

            As for your concerns about their website, logo, etc, why don't you take it
            all up directly with them? Yes the web site is way out of date, but the
            products are super good and are different from those shown. Shit, maybe they
            should spend more time building web sites and less time building and
            designing kites??? I think the Kitesurfer trademark and logo were registered
            around 4 years ago at the opposite end of the globe from your beloved
            Stonker (if they even existed then).

            Steve, I don't know how to tell you this, so I'll just go ahead anyhow. You
            are an overbearing, loud mouthed, narrow minded individual and obviously
            find it hard to accept that good, new and innovative things do come from
            other parts of the planet aside from your beloved Australia. PLEASE, the
            next time you feel the need to waste everyone's time with your irrelevant
            ramblings, STOP, THINK and THINK AGAIN before hitting the send button.

            PS. Why don't you get a KITESURFER wing sample and report back to the group
            on YOUR findings? Now THAT would be interesting!

            Shaun Pretorius
            Tsunami Sports

            www.tsunamisports.co.za
            info@...

            Tel: +27 31 2019776
            Fax:+27 31 2019685

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Kitepower [mailto:kitepower@...]
            Sent: 28 August 2001 12:46
            To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [ksurf] cabrinha seam tear

            G'day Brian and Mike

            Firstly Brian, no-one here with experience with kites will believe that any
            kite could be used by pros and thrashed by beginners for 6 months and still
            look like new, and that was not even one of the newer Kitesurfer kites, just
            an early proto!!??
            If they are seriously as good as you say, then you should stop selling Naish
            and Wipika.
            If the kites weigh more due to the use of more durable materials, flight
            performance must suffer at least in the lower range of each kite, mustn't
            it?

            Are the Kitesurfer kites licensed by Wipika?

            Everything on their website seems to be a copy of someone else's stuff, way
            out of date (smallest high wind/advanced rider board 1.99M!!)or just
            incorrect nonsense, flying lines are 250lb Dyneema, or some sort of cheese
            wire!!
            The advice in the beginners section is crazy, it says if you have some board
            skills it is easy to learn to kitesurf.
            Also the sizes and wind ranges seem a bit weird, and they are not cheap
            either.
            They claim they are patenting all sorts of things, including the shape of a
            double parabolic curve, but make no mention of the fact that they are making
            a kite based on the Wipika Patent, and the Kitesurfer logo is a copy of the
            Stonker artwork/logo IMO. It will be curious to see one and be blown away by
            all the awesome improvements!!
            Should I quit all my stock of Naish Wipika and Peter Lynn?

            And Mike, you are a bigger than average person, that alone will put much
            greater loads on your gear, but I know lots of people in your "size " range
            and they are not having to repair their kites all the time like you.
            Kitesurfing puts more load on a kite and its accessories than any other form
            of kite traction, I have seen Naish bars snapped in two by 80kg riders, and
            countless kites damaged by what people think is fair abuse, but the fact
            remains that for a kite to have the characteristics we need for kitesurfing
            ( or even enjoyable sport kiting on land) they need to be built light.
            I remember Peter Lynn telling me over a coffee in Adelaide once that there
            is a certain weight per sq M of sail area that cannot be exceeded if the
            kite is to fly in an acceptable wind range and be durable enough to sell
            commercially, look at how long it has taken him and F-One to produce foil
            sleds in the larger sizes. Don't you think one of the inventors of kites
            would want to have a competitive advantage by having kites that are 2,3 or 5
            times as strong and durable as the competition but with the same performance
            and weight?
            What materials would you suggest they make kites from?
            Without making them more expensive than they are?
            I can think of a few things that would improve durability in some areas, but
            I'm sure these materials, if they existed would make the kites dearer.
            I cannot remember how many spars I broke in the sport kites I love to fly
            for recreation, when learning to do the tricks I can now do without
            thinking.
            I still believe the biggest skill that will give the best durability to any
            brand of kite is kite control.
            But no-one really wants to tell beginners this as it will slow sales down!!!
            If you get a year of constant use from an inflatable you've done well, and
            you will get a bit more from some foils and Peter Lynn Arcs, maybe a couple
            of years.

            Cya and
            Goodwinds
            Steve McCormack
            http://www.kitepower.com.au
            mailto:sydney@...
            126 Beach St, Coogee, NSW, Australia 2034
            Open 7 Days 9.30 - 5.30
            Also at 386 Latrobe Terrace Geelong Vic
            mailto:geelong@...

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Tsunamisports [mailto:info@...]
            Sent: Tuesday, 28 August 2001 4:39
            To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: was: [ksurf] cabrinha seam tear, rant, F'ING RANT, RANT,
            RANT!!! (COM, COM, COM)


            Mike, the KITESURFER parabolic 2 series have just gone into full production
            and will be available within the month. I seriously suggest you get to take
            a look at one of these kites. We have had some early prototypes flying here
            for the last 6 months and after being ridden hard by team riders as well as
            being thrashed around in the surf by beginners, they are looking pretty much
            like the day they arrived.

            The leading edge seams are constructed differently form the other mainstream
            products out there now, as is the material on both the kite body and bladder
            casings.

            No one can ever promise that there will never be any problems, but from what
            I've experienced so far, these guys are definitely worth consideration.

            Do I have a vested interest in these comments? Yes definitely! We will be
            distributing KITESURFER wings locally as I have been absolutely and utterly
            convinced by the product performance and durability I have experienced to
            date. I'm not making this out to be any "silver bullet", and we will still
            be offering many of the other fantastic products out there that are all
            really good in their own way, but if performance AND durability is what you
            want, you need to take a look at these wings.

            I guess I'll sit back now and mentally prepare for the abuse that's sure to
            follow :).

            Shaun Pretorius
            Tsunami Sports

            www.tsunamisports.co.za
            info@...

            Tel: +27 31 2019776
            Fax:+27 31 2019685

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Lemke, Mike [mailto:mike@...]
            Sent: 28 August 2001 04:55
            To: 'kitesurf@yahoogroups.com '
            Subject: RE: [ksurf] cabrinha seam tear, rant, F'ING RANT, RANT, RANT!!!

            Are the Rhino's really durable? I'm really getting sick and farking tired
            of this shit. Many on this group are pissed about projected vs.
            flat......I'm pissed about strength of kites and gear. I don't go
            huge....just small jumps....and I'm super carefull w/ my kites, yet I'm
            always repairing them. Am I to heavy at 240lbs? Fuck no....If I'm strong
            enough to hold on then my kite and gear aught to hang too.

            Why aren't these things made of real sail material? Why do I need to make
            my own bars that are strong? These are not stunt kites.....these are not
            windsurf sails.....these are not parachutes.....USE PROPER MATERIALS!

            I for one am pissed. No more recalls....no more ripped panels.....no more
            broken webbing adjusters.....

            SOMEONE make a kite that lasts a legit year.

            Mike
            Las Vegas,NV

            -----Original Message-----
            From: iclimbtrees@...
            To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: 8/27/01 6:20 PM
            Subject: [ksurf] cabrinha seam tear, rant

            Hey there people.
            I just had a seam blow out on my 12.2 black tip. It was the one
            running down the back of the second strut from the end. I looked
            closely at the rest of the struts where the stitching starts and they
            seemed to be starting to tear as well. Is this common?
            Another peeve I have with this kite is the folded stitching along the
            leading edge is starting to fray, the fabric looks like it is pulling
            apart, I can almost seee the bladder through the fabric. This sucks
            cuz the kite has only been used like 17 times and only crashed a
            couple. The implacts were not real slams either.
            Is there a way of reinforcing the stitching points? Am I pumping
            the bladders too hard?
            This really sucks to spend 1500 bucks on a kite to only get 17 uses
            before repairs have to be made, not including the fucking bladder
            syndrome with these kites!!!!
            I dont see these problems on two year old naish and wipika products.
            disgruntled,
            mika


            This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com
            For Kitesurfers by Kitesurfers

            http://www.KiteHigh.com

            Win Board or Cabrinha Kite sweepstakes on now.

            1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA
            808 579 9849
            Email:support@...

            <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>

            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


            This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com
            For Kitesurfers by Kitesurfers

            http://www.KiteHigh.com

            Win Board or Cabrinha Kite sweepstakes on now.

            1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA
            808 579 9849
            Email:support@...

            <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>

            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




            This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com
            For Kitesurfers by Kitesurfers

            http://www.KiteHigh.com

            Win Board or Cabrinha Kite sweepstakes on now.

            1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA
            808 579 9849
            Email:support@...

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          • Greg Walsh
            Yay! Dealer fight! Dealer fight! Come on Steve, kick him in the nuts! Go im Shaun. Woowoo. No scratching guys. Only sissies scratch. Perhaps you guys should
            Message 5 of 16 , Aug 29, 2001
            • 0 Attachment
              Yay! Dealer fight! Dealer fight! Come on Steve, kick him in the nuts!
              Go 'im Shaun. Woowoo. No scratching guys. Only sissies scratch.
              Perhaps you guys should get together and fight nude in mud. Just
              DON'T post any pictures if you do. :0)
            • Tsunamisports
              Why no pics? Shaun Pretorius Tsunami Sports www.tsunamisports.co.za info@tsunamisports.co.za Tel: +27 31 2019776 Fax:+27 31 2019685 ... From: Greg Walsh
              Message 6 of 16 , Aug 29, 2001
              • 0 Attachment
                Why no pics?

                Shaun Pretorius
                Tsunami Sports

                www.tsunamisports.co.za
                info@...

                Tel: +27 31 2019776
                Fax:+27 31 2019685

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Greg Walsh [mailto:gregwal@...]
                Sent: 29 August 2001 01:59
                To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: was: [ksurf] cabrinha seam tear. KITEPOWER RANTS AGAIN, and
                again, and again, ...

                Yay! Dealer fight! Dealer fight! Come on Steve, kick him in the nuts!
                Go 'im Shaun. Woowoo. No scratching guys. Only sissies scratch.
                Perhaps you guys should get together and fight nude in mud. Just
                DON'T post any pictures if you do. :0)


                This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com
                For Kitesurfers by Kitesurfers

                http://www.KiteHigh.com

                Win Board or Cabrinha Kite sweepstakes on now.

                1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA
                808 579 9849
                Email:support@...

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              • Kitepower
                G day Brian Everything you say about me is true - for you! Thanks for the laughs though, I just had a mate ring and read me the best (worst?) bits of your
                Message 7 of 16 , Aug 29, 2001
                • 0 Attachment
                  G'day Brian
                  Everything you say about me is true - for you!
                  Thanks for the laughs though, I just had a mate ring and read me the best
                  (worst?) bits of your post. I nearly pissed myself, as I suspected you would
                  take my response the wrong way.
                  It is a pity we cannot have a discussion about these incredible claims you
                  made though, instead of taking 2 days to come up with your incredible reply,
                  that has avoided addressing the issues I raised that I was hoping you would
                  comment on!!
                  My wife even said but he (you) is probably a really nice guy, and I agreed
                  that most people are in my experience, they just have really nasty
                  keyboards, and take everything said here personally, way too easily.
                  I would love to get hold of a Kitesurfer kite, they have been promised to be
                  available in Oz for more than a year now, but I will give the distributor
                  another call today actually.
                  The other day God appeared before me, he said you can have one of 2 things,
                  a big penis or an incredible memory, but I can't remember my answer?
                  Keep smiling Brian,

                  Cya and
                  Goodwinds
                  Steve McCormack
                  http://www.kitepower.com.au
                  mailto:sydney@...
                  126 Beach St, Coogee, NSW, Australia 2034
                  Open 7 Days 9.30 - 5.30
                  Also at 386 Latrobe Terrace Geelong Vic
                  mailto:geelong@...

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Tsunamisports [mailto:info@...]
                  Sent: Wednesday, 29 August 2001 6:06
                  To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: was: [ksurf] cabrinha seam tear. KITEPOWER RANTS AGAIN, and
                  again, and again, ...


                  Steve,

                  Frankly you have the biggest mouth on this forum and as long as everyone
                  backs off and agrees with your sentiments all is Cool. Well frankly you have
                  LOTS to learn.
                  You are welcome to come and verify my statements on the KS wings if you
                  wish, otherwise give me the same courtesy and credibility you would expect
                  others to show you as you are basically calling me a liar which is unfounded
                  and really out of line. I made it clear that we still supply other brands
                  and I have in fact flown predominantly Naish kites over the past 2 years and
                  I have found them to be awesome kites. The latest batch of AR-X's are
                  looking really excellent in the construction department and I do believe
                  that they are an Excellent product.

                  The issue at hand was about long-term durability and I think my suggestion
                  was for Mike to TAKE A LOOK AT ONE. Not to dump everything he has and rush
                  out and change his entire quiver. But then I suppose even this might be
                  threat to your perceived "kingdom?"

                  As for your concerns about their website, logo, etc, why don't you take it
                  all up directly with them? Yes the web site is way out of date, but the
                  products are super good and are different from those shown. Shit, maybe they
                  should spend more time building web sites and less time building and
                  designing kites??? I think the Kitesurfer trademark and logo were registered
                  around 4 years ago at the opposite end of the globe from your beloved
                  Stonker (if they even existed then).

                  Steve, I don't know how to tell you this, so I'll just go ahead anyhow. You
                  are an overbearing, loud mouthed, narrow minded individual and obviously
                  find it hard to accept that good, new and innovative things do come from
                  other parts of the planet aside from your beloved Australia. PLEASE, the
                  next time you feel the need to waste everyone's time with your irrelevant
                  ramblings, STOP, THINK and THINK AGAIN before hitting the send button.

                  PS. Why don't you get a KITESURFER wing sample and report back to the group
                  on YOUR findings? Now THAT would be interesting!

                  Shaun Pretorius
                  Tsunami Sports

                  www.tsunamisports.co.za
                  info@...

                  Tel: +27 31 2019776
                  Fax:+27 31 2019685

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Kitepower [mailto:kitepower@...]
                  Sent: 28 August 2001 12:46
                  To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [ksurf] cabrinha seam tear

                  G'day Brian and Mike

                  Firstly Brian, no-one here with experience with kites will believe that any
                  kite could be used by pros and thrashed by beginners for 6 months and still
                  look like new, and that was not even one of the newer Kitesurfer kites, just
                  an early proto!!??
                  If they are seriously as good as you say, then you should stop selling Naish
                  and Wipika.
                  If the kites weigh more due to the use of more durable materials, flight
                  performance must suffer at least in the lower range of each kite, mustn't
                  it?

                  Are the Kitesurfer kites licensed by Wipika?

                  Everything on their website seems to be a copy of someone else's stuff, way
                  out of date (smallest high wind/advanced rider board 1.99M!!)or just
                  incorrect nonsense, flying lines are 250lb Dyneema, or some sort of cheese
                  wire!!
                  The advice in the beginners section is crazy, it says if you have some board
                  skills it is easy to learn to kitesurf.
                  Also the sizes and wind ranges seem a bit weird, and they are not cheap
                  either.
                  They claim they are patenting all sorts of things, including the shape of a
                  double parabolic curve, but make no mention of the fact that they are making
                  a kite based on the Wipika Patent, and the Kitesurfer logo is a copy of the
                  Stonker artwork/logo IMO. It will be curious to see one and be blown away by
                  all the awesome improvements!!
                  Should I quit all my stock of Naish Wipika and Peter Lynn?

                  And Mike, you are a bigger than average person, that alone will put much
                  greater loads on your gear, but I know lots of people in your "size " range
                  and they are not having to repair their kites all the time like you.
                  Kitesurfing puts more load on a kite and its accessories than any other form
                  of kite traction, I have seen Naish bars snapped in two by 80kg riders, and
                  countless kites damaged by what people think is fair abuse, but the fact
                  remains that for a kite to have the characteristics we need for kitesurfing
                  ( or even enjoyable sport kiting on land) they need to be built light.
                  I remember Peter Lynn telling me over a coffee in Adelaide once that there
                  is a certain weight per sq M of sail area that cannot be exceeded if the
                  kite is to fly in an acceptable wind range and be durable enough to sell
                  commercially, look at how long it has taken him and F-One to produce foil
                  sleds in the larger sizes. Don't you think one of the inventors of kites
                  would want to have a competitive advantage by having kites that are 2,3 or 5
                  times as strong and durable as the competition but with the same performance
                  and weight?
                  What materials would you suggest they make kites from?
                  Without making them more expensive than they are?
                  I can think of a few things that would improve durability in some areas, but
                  I'm sure these materials, if they existed would make the kites dearer.
                  I cannot remember how many spars I broke in the sport kites I love to fly
                  for recreation, when learning to do the tricks I can now do without
                  thinking.
                  I still believe the biggest skill that will give the best durability to any
                  brand of kite is kite control.
                  But no-one really wants to tell beginners this as it will slow sales down!!!
                  If you get a year of constant use from an inflatable you've done well, and
                  you will get a bit more from some foils and Peter Lynn Arcs, maybe a couple
                  of years.

                  Cya and
                  Goodwinds
                  Steve McCormack
                  http://www.kitepower.com.au
                  mailto:sydney@...
                  126 Beach St, Coogee, NSW, Australia 2034
                  Open 7 Days 9.30 - 5.30
                  Also at 386 Latrobe Terrace Geelong Vic
                  mailto:geelong@...

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Tsunamisports [mailto:info@...]
                  Sent: Tuesday, 28 August 2001 4:39
                  To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: was: [ksurf] cabrinha seam tear, rant, F'ING RANT, RANT,
                  RANT!!! (COM, COM, COM)


                  Mike, the KITESURFER parabolic 2 series have just gone into full production
                  and will be available within the month. I seriously suggest you get to take
                  a look at one of these kites. We have had some early prototypes flying here
                  for the last 6 months and after being ridden hard by team riders as well as
                  being thrashed around in the surf by beginners, they are looking pretty much
                  like the day they arrived.

                  The leading edge seams are constructed differently form the other mainstream
                  products out there now, as is the material on both the kite body and bladder
                  casings.

                  No one can ever promise that there will never be any problems, but from what
                  I've experienced so far, these guys are definitely worth consideration.

                  Do I have a vested interest in these comments? Yes definitely! We will be
                  distributing KITESURFER wings locally as I have been absolutely and utterly
                  convinced by the product performance and durability I have experienced to
                  date. I'm not making this out to be any "silver bullet", and we will still
                  be offering many of the other fantastic products out there that are all
                  really good in their own way, but if performance AND durability is what you
                  want, you need to take a look at these wings.

                  I guess I'll sit back now and mentally prepare for the abuse that's sure to
                  follow :).

                  Shaun Pretorius
                  Tsunami Sports

                  www.tsunamisports.co.za
                  info@...

                  Tel: +27 31 2019776
                  Fax:+27 31 2019685

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Lemke, Mike [mailto:mike@...]
                  Sent: 28 August 2001 04:55
                  To: 'kitesurf@yahoogroups.com '
                  Subject: RE: [ksurf] cabrinha seam tear, rant, F'ING RANT, RANT, RANT!!!

                  Are the Rhino's really durable? I'm really getting sick and farking tired
                  of this shit. Many on this group are pissed about projected vs.
                  flat......I'm pissed about strength of kites and gear. I don't go
                  huge....just small jumps....and I'm super carefull w/ my kites, yet I'm
                  always repairing them. Am I to heavy at 240lbs? Fuck no....If I'm strong
                  enough to hold on then my kite and gear aught to hang too.

                  Why aren't these things made of real sail material? Why do I need to make
                  my own bars that are strong? These are not stunt kites.....these are not
                  windsurf sails.....these are not parachutes.....USE PROPER MATERIALS!

                  I for one am pissed. No more recalls....no more ripped panels.....no more
                  broken webbing adjusters.....

                  SOMEONE make a kite that lasts a legit year.

                  Mike
                  Las Vegas,NV

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: iclimbtrees@...
                  To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: 8/27/01 6:20 PM
                  Subject: [ksurf] cabrinha seam tear, rant

                  Hey there people.
                  I just had a seam blow out on my 12.2 black tip. It was the one
                  running down the back of the second strut from the end. I looked
                  closely at the rest of the struts where the stitching starts and they
                  seemed to be starting to tear as well. Is this common?
                  Another peeve I have with this kite is the folded stitching along the
                  leading edge is starting to fray, the fabric looks like it is pulling
                  apart, I can almost seee the bladder through the fabric. This sucks
                  cuz the kite has only been used like 17 times and only crashed a
                  couple. The implacts were not real slams either.
                  Is there a way of reinforcing the stitching points? Am I pumping
                  the bladders too hard?
                  This really sucks to spend 1500 bucks on a kite to only get 17 uses
                  before repairs have to be made, not including the fucking bladder
                  syndrome with these kites!!!!
                  I dont see these problems on two year old naish and wipika products.
                  disgruntled,
                  mika


                  This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com
                  For Kitesurfers by Kitesurfers

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                  For Kitesurfers by Kitesurfers

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                  Win Board or Cabrinha Kite sweepstakes on now.

                  1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA
                  808 579 9849
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                  This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com
                  For Kitesurfers by Kitesurfers

                  http://www.KiteHigh.com

                  Win Board or Cabrinha Kite sweepstakes on now.

                  1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA
                  808 579 9849
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                  This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com
                  For Kitesurfers by Kitesurfers

                  http://www.KiteHigh.com

                  Win Board or Cabrinha Kite sweepstakes on now.

                  1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA
                  808 579 9849
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                  This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com
                  For Kitesurfers by Kitesurfers

                  http://www.KiteHigh.com

                  Win Board or Cabrinha Kite sweepstakes on now.

                  1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA
                  808 579 9849
                  Email:support@...

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                • Kitepower
                  Sorry Greg It takes 2 to do that and I am too busy to have e-mail punch ups with Brian or anyone else, but I m sure you won t have to wait too long for some
                  Message 8 of 16 , Aug 29, 2001
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Sorry Greg
                    It takes 2 to do that and I am too busy to have e-mail punch ups with Brian
                    or anyone else, but I'm sure you won't have to wait too long for some
                    willing sparring partners to show up.
                    I'll be down in Melb in a couple of weeks and would like to catch up and
                    check out that new foil you have?

                    Cya and
                    Goodwinds
                    Steve McCormack
                    http://www.kitepower.com.au
                    mailto:sydney@...
                    126 Beach St, Coogee, NSW, Australia 2034
                    Open 7 Days 9.30 - 5.30
                    Also at 386 Latrobe Terrace Geelong Vic
                    mailto:geelong@...

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Greg Walsh [mailto:gregwal@...]
                    Sent: Wednesday, 29 August 2001 9:59
                    To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: was: [ksurf] cabrinha seam tear. KITEPOWER RANTS AGAIN, and
                    again, and again, ...


                    Yay! Dealer fight! Dealer fight! Come on Steve, kick him in the nuts!
                    Go 'im Shaun. Woowoo. No scratching guys. Only sissies scratch.
                    Perhaps you guys should get together and fight nude in mud. Just
                    DON'T post any pictures if you do. :0)


                    This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com
                    For Kitesurfers by Kitesurfers

                    http://www.KiteHigh.com

                    Win Board or Cabrinha Kite sweepstakes on now.

                    1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA
                    808 579 9849
                    Email:support@...

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                    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  • captain1@iname.com
                    Shaun, In all honesty buddy I will say you re right. Steve is the loudest person on this list and seems to always know best and talks his god damn mind all the
                    Message 9 of 16 , Aug 30, 2001
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Shaun,

                      In all honesty buddy I will say you're right. Steve is the loudest
                      person on this list and seems to always know best and talks his god
                      damn mind all the time!!!

                      But keep in mind one thing dude, when you and I were buying toy kites
                      from the little shop in Cabanna Beach and flying them in Umhlanga
                      Steve was already flying traction and stunt kites . Look the guy
                      does know what he is talking about. Compared to him we have all been
                      flying kites for a very short time, so we can learn a bit.

                      That said Steve - shut the hell up!!!!!!

                      Later guys

                      Anthony



                      --- In kitesurf@y..., "Tsunamisports" <info@t...> wrote:
                      > Steve,
                      >
                      > Frankly you have the biggest mouth on this forum and as long as
                      everyone
                      > backs off and agrees with your sentiments all is Cool. Well frankly
                      you have
                      > LOTS to learn.
                      > You are welcome to come and verify my statements on the KS wings if
                      you
                      > wish, otherwise give me the same courtesy and credibility you would
                      expect
                      > others to show you as you are basically calling me a liar which is
                      unfounded
                      > and really out of line. I made it clear that we still supply other
                      brands
                      > and I have in fact flown predominantly Naish kites over the past 2
                      years and
                      > I have found them to be awesome kites. The latest batch of AR-X's
                      are
                      > looking really excellent in the construction department and I do
                      believe
                      > that they are an Excellent product.
                      >
                      > The issue at hand was about long-term durability and I think my
                      suggestion
                      > was for Mike to TAKE A LOOK AT ONE. Not to dump everything he has
                      and rush
                      > out and change his entire quiver. But then I suppose even this
                      might be
                      > threat to your perceived "kingdom?"
                      >
                      > As for your concerns about their website, logo, etc, why don't you
                      take it
                      > all up directly with them? Yes the web site is way out of date, but
                      the
                      > products are super good and are different from those shown. Shit,
                      maybe they
                      > should spend more time building web sites and less time building and
                      > designing kites??? I think the Kitesurfer trademark and logo were
                      registered
                      > around 4 years ago at the opposite end of the globe from your
                      beloved
                      > Stonker (if they even existed then).
                      >
                      > Steve, I don't know how to tell you this, so I'll just go ahead
                      anyhow. You
                      > are an overbearing, loud mouthed, narrow minded individual and
                      obviously
                      > find it hard to accept that good, new and innovative things do come
                      from
                      > other parts of the planet aside from your beloved Australia.
                      PLEASE, the
                      > next time you feel the need to waste everyone's time with your
                      irrelevant
                      > ramblings, STOP, THINK and THINK AGAIN before hitting the send
                      button.
                      >
                      > PS. Why don't you get a KITESURFER wing sample and report back to
                      the group
                      > on YOUR findings? Now THAT would be interesting!
                      >
                      > Shaun Pretorius
                      > Tsunami Sports
                      >
                      > www.tsunamisports.co.za
                      > info@t...
                      >
                      > Tel: +27 31 2019776
                      > Fax:+27 31 2019685
                      >
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: Kitepower [mailto:kitepower@b...]
                      > Sent: 28 August 2001 12:46
                      > To: kitesurf@y...
                      > Subject: RE: [ksurf] cabrinha seam tear
                      >
                      > G'day Brian and Mike
                      >
                      > Firstly Brian, no-one here with experience with kites will believe
                      that any
                      > kite could be used by pros and thrashed by beginners for 6 months
                      and still
                      > look like new, and that was not even one of the newer Kitesurfer
                      kites, just
                      > an early proto!!??
                      > If they are seriously as good as you say, then you should stop
                      selling Naish
                      > and Wipika.
                      > If the kites weigh more due to the use of more durable materials,
                      flight
                      > performance must suffer at least in the lower range of each kite,
                      mustn't
                      > it?
                      >
                      > Are the Kitesurfer kites licensed by Wipika?
                      >
                      > Everything on their website seems to be a copy of someone else's
                      stuff, way
                      > out of date (smallest high wind/advanced rider board 1.99M!!)or just
                      > incorrect nonsense, flying lines are 250lb Dyneema, or some sort of
                      cheese
                      > wire!!
                      > The advice in the beginners section is crazy, it says if you have
                      some board
                      > skills it is easy to learn to kitesurf.
                      > Also the sizes and wind ranges seem a bit weird, and they are not
                      cheap
                      > either.
                      > They claim they are patenting all sorts of things, including the
                      shape of a
                      > double parabolic curve, but make no mention of the fact that they
                      are making
                      > a kite based on the Wipika Patent, and the Kitesurfer logo is a
                      copy of the
                      > Stonker artwork/logo IMO. It will be curious to see one and be
                      blown away by
                      > all the awesome improvements!!
                      > Should I quit all my stock of Naish Wipika and Peter Lynn?
                      >
                      > And Mike, you are a bigger than average person, that alone will put
                      much
                      > greater loads on your gear, but I know lots of people in
                      your "size " range
                      > and they are not having to repair their kites all the time like you.
                      > Kitesurfing puts more load on a kite and its accessories than any
                      other form
                      > of kite traction, I have seen Naish bars snapped in two by 80kg
                      riders, and
                      > countless kites damaged by what people think is fair abuse, but the
                      fact
                      > remains that for a kite to have the characteristics we need for
                      kitesurfing
                      > ( or even enjoyable sport kiting on land) they need to be built
                      light.
                      > I remember Peter Lynn telling me over a coffee in Adelaide once
                      that there
                      > is a certain weight per sq M of sail area that cannot be exceeded
                      if the
                      > kite is to fly in an acceptable wind range and be durable enough to
                      sell
                      > commercially, look at how long it has taken him and F-One to
                      produce foil
                      > sleds in the larger sizes. Don't you think one of the inventors of
                      kites
                      > would want to have a competitive advantage by having kites that are
                      2,3 or 5
                      > times as strong and durable as the competition but with the same
                      performance
                      > and weight?
                      > What materials would you suggest they make kites from?
                      > Without making them more expensive than they are?
                      > I can think of a few things that would improve durability in some
                      areas, but
                      > I'm sure these materials, if they existed would make the kites
                      dearer.
                      > I cannot remember how many spars I broke in the sport kites I love
                      to fly
                      > for recreation, when learning to do the tricks I can now do without
                      > thinking.
                      > I still believe the biggest skill that will give the best
                      durability to any
                      > brand of kite is kite control.
                      > But no-one really wants to tell beginners this as it will slow
                      sales down!!!
                      > If you get a year of constant use from an inflatable you've done
                      well, and
                      > you will get a bit more from some foils and Peter Lynn Arcs, maybe
                      a couple
                      > of years.
                      >
                      > Cya and
                      > Goodwinds
                      > Steve McCormack
                      > http://www.kitepower.com.au
                      > mailto:sydney@k...
                      > 126 Beach St, Coogee, NSW, Australia 2034
                      > Open 7 Days 9.30 - 5.30
                      > Also at 386 Latrobe Terrace Geelong Vic
                      > mailto:geelong@k...
                      >
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: Tsunamisports [mailto:info@t...]
                      > Sent: Tuesday, 28 August 2001 4:39
                      > To: kitesurf@y...
                      > Subject: was: [ksurf] cabrinha seam tear, rant, F'ING RANT, RANT,
                      > RANT!!! (COM, COM, COM)
                      >
                      >
                      > Mike, the KITESURFER parabolic 2 series have just gone into full
                      production
                      > and will be available within the month. I seriously suggest you get
                      to take
                      > a look at one of these kites. We have had some early prototypes
                      flying here
                      > for the last 6 months and after being ridden hard by team riders as
                      well as
                      > being thrashed around in the surf by beginners, they are looking
                      pretty much
                      > like the day they arrived.
                      >
                      > The leading edge seams are constructed differently form the other
                      mainstream
                      > products out there now, as is the material on both the kite body
                      and bladder
                      > casings.
                      >
                      > No one can ever promise that there will never be any problems, but
                      from what
                      > I've experienced so far, these guys are definitely worth
                      consideration.
                      >
                      > Do I have a vested interest in these comments? Yes definitely! We
                      will be
                      > distributing KITESURFER wings locally as I have been absolutely and
                      utterly
                      > convinced by the product performance and durability I have
                      experienced to
                      > date. I'm not making this out to be any "silver bullet", and we
                      will still
                      > be offering many of the other fantastic products out there that are
                      all
                      > really good in their own way, but if performance AND durability is
                      what you
                      > want, you need to take a look at these wings.
                      >
                      > I guess I'll sit back now and mentally prepare for the abuse that's
                      sure to
                      > follow :).
                      >
                      > Shaun Pretorius
                      > Tsunami Sports
                      >
                      > www.tsunamisports.co.za
                      > info@t...
                      >
                      > Tel: +27 31 2019776
                      > Fax:+27 31 2019685
                      >
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: Lemke, Mike [mailto:mike@l...]
                      > Sent: 28 August 2001 04:55
                      > To: 'kitesurf@y... '
                      > Subject: RE: [ksurf] cabrinha seam tear, rant, F'ING RANT, RANT,
                      RANT!!!
                      >
                      > Are the Rhino's really durable? I'm really getting sick and
                      farking tired
                      > of this shit. Many on this group are pissed about projected vs.
                      > flat......I'm pissed about strength of kites and gear. I don't go
                      > huge....just small jumps....and I'm super carefull w/ my kites, yet
                      I'm
                      > always repairing them. Am I to heavy at 240lbs? Fuck no....If I'm
                      strong
                      > enough to hold on then my kite and gear aught to hang too.
                      >
                      > Why aren't these things made of real sail material? Why do I need
                      to make
                      > my own bars that are strong? These are not stunt kites.....these
                      are not
                      > windsurf sails.....these are not parachutes.....USE PROPER
                      MATERIALS!
                      >
                      > I for one am pissed. No more recalls....no more ripped
                      panels.....no more
                      > broken webbing adjusters.....
                      >
                      > SOMEONE make a kite that lasts a legit year.
                      >
                      > Mike
                      > Las Vegas,NV
                      >
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: iclimbtrees@y...
                      > To: kitesurf@y...
                      > Sent: 8/27/01 6:20 PM
                      > Subject: [ksurf] cabrinha seam tear, rant
                      >
                      > Hey there people.
                      > I just had a seam blow out on my 12.2 black tip. It was the one
                      > running down the back of the second strut from the end. I looked
                      > closely at the rest of the struts where the stitching starts and
                      they
                      > seemed to be starting to tear as well. Is this common?
                      > Another peeve I have with this kite is the folded stitching along
                      the
                      > leading edge is starting to fray, the fabric looks like it is
                      pulling
                      > apart, I can almost seee the bladder through the fabric. This sucks
                      > cuz the kite has only been used like 17 times and only crashed a
                      > couple. The implacts were not real slams either.
                      > Is there a way of reinforcing the stitching points? Am I pumping
                      > the bladders too hard?
                      > This really sucks to spend 1500 bucks on a kite to only get 17 uses
                      > before repairs have to be made, not including the fucking bladder
                      > syndrome with these kites!!!!
                      > I dont see these problems on two year old naish and wipika products.
                      > disgruntled,
                      > mika
                      >
                      >
                      > This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com
                      > For Kitesurfers by Kitesurfers
                      >
                      > http://www.KiteHigh.com
                      >
                      > Win Board or Cabrinha Kite sweepstakes on now.
                      >
                      > 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA
                      > 808 579 9849
                      > Email:support@k...
                      >
                      > <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-
                      unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                      > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      >
                      >
                      > This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com
                      > For Kitesurfers by Kitesurfers
                      >
                      > http://www.KiteHigh.com
                      >
                      > Win Board or Cabrinha Kite sweepstakes on now.
                      >
                      > 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA
                      > 808 579 9849
                      > Email:support@k...
                      >
                      > <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-
                      unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                      http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com
                      > For Kitesurfers by Kitesurfers
                      >
                      > http://www.KiteHigh.com
                      >
                      > Win Board or Cabrinha Kite sweepstakes on now.
                      >
                      > 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA
                      > 808 579 9849
                      > Email:support@k...
                      >
                      > <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-
                      unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                      http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com
                      > For Kitesurfers by Kitesurfers
                      >
                      > http://www.KiteHigh.com
                      >
                      > Win Board or Cabrinha Kite sweepstakes on now.
                      >
                      > 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA
                      > 808 579 9849
                      > Email:support@k...
                      >
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                    • Suntrax
                      Steve, just curious, who/which is the Brian you refer to in your last couple of mails and where does he fit into this thread? Regards Brian WILSON Capetown
                      Message 10 of 16 , Aug 30, 2001
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Steve, just curious, who/which is the Brian you refer to in your last couple
                        of mails and where does he fit into this thread?

                        Regards

                        Brian WILSON
                        Capetown

                        Brian Wilson
                        Suntrax
                        Tel/fax 027 21 5560044
                        cell; 0824656696
                        www.suntrax.co.za

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Kitepower <kitepower@...>
                        To: <kitesurf@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 2:12 AM
                        Subject: RE: [ksurf] cabrinha seam tear. KITEPOWER RANTS AGAIN, and again,
                        and again, ...


                        > G'day Brian
                        > Everything you say about me is true - for you!
                        > Thanks for the laughs though, I just had a mate ring and read me the best
                        > (worst?) bits of your post. I nearly pissed myself, as I suspected you
                        would
                        > take my response the wrong way.
                        > It is a pity we cannot have a discussion about these incredible claims you
                        > made though, instead of taking 2 days to come up with your incredible
                        reply,
                        > that has avoided addressing the issues I raised that I was hoping you
                        would
                        > comment on!!
                        > My wife even said but he (you) is probably a really nice guy, and I agreed
                        > that most people are in my experience, they just have really nasty
                        > keyboards, and take everything said here personally, way too easily.
                        > I would love to get hold of a Kitesurfer kite, they have been promised to
                        be
                        > available in Oz for more than a year now, but I will give the distributor
                        > another call today actually.
                        > The other day God appeared before me, he said you can have one of 2
                        things,
                        > a big penis or an incredible memory, but I can't remember my answer?
                        > Keep smiling Brian,
                        >
                        > Cya and
                        > Goodwinds
                        > Steve McCormack
                        > http://www.kitepower.com.au
                        > mailto:sydney@...
                        > 126 Beach St, Coogee, NSW, Australia 2034
                        > Open 7 Days 9.30 - 5.30
                        > Also at 386 Latrobe Terrace Geelong Vic
                        > mailto:geelong@...
                        >
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: Tsunamisports [mailto:info@...]
                        > Sent: Wednesday, 29 August 2001 6:06
                        > To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: was: [ksurf] cabrinha seam tear. KITEPOWER RANTS AGAIN, and
                        > again, and again, ...
                        >
                        >
                        > Steve,
                        >
                        > Frankly you have the biggest mouth on this forum and as long as everyone
                        > backs off and agrees with your sentiments all is Cool. Well frankly you
                        have
                        > LOTS to learn.
                        > You are welcome to come and verify my statements on the KS wings if you
                        > wish, otherwise give me the same courtesy and credibility you would expect
                        > others to show you as you are basically calling me a liar which is
                        unfounded
                        > and really out of line. I made it clear that we still supply other brands
                        > and I have in fact flown predominantly Naish kites over the past 2 years
                        and
                        > I have found them to be awesome kites. The latest batch of AR-X's are
                        > looking really excellent in the construction department and I do believe
                        > that they are an Excellent product.
                        >
                        > The issue at hand was about long-term durability and I think my suggestion
                        > was for Mike to TAKE A LOOK AT ONE. Not to dump everything he has and rush
                        > out and change his entire quiver. But then I suppose even this might be
                        > threat to your perceived "kingdom?"
                        >
                        > As for your concerns about their website, logo, etc, why don't you take it
                        > all up directly with them? Yes the web site is way out of date, but the
                        > products are super good and are different from those shown. Shit, maybe
                        they
                        > should spend more time building web sites and less time building and
                        > designing kites??? I think the Kitesurfer trademark and logo were
                        registered
                        > around 4 years ago at the opposite end of the globe from your beloved
                        > Stonker (if they even existed then).
                        >
                        > Steve, I don't know how to tell you this, so I'll just go ahead anyhow.
                        You
                        > are an overbearing, loud mouthed, narrow minded individual and obviously
                        > find it hard to accept that good, new and innovative things do come from
                        > other parts of the planet aside from your beloved Australia. PLEASE, the
                        > next time you feel the need to waste everyone's time with your irrelevant
                        > ramblings, STOP, THINK and THINK AGAIN before hitting the send button.
                        >
                        > PS. Why don't you get a KITESURFER wing sample and report back to the
                        group
                        > on YOUR findings? Now THAT would be interesting!
                        >
                        > Shaun Pretorius
                        > Tsunami Sports
                        >
                        > www.tsunamisports.co.za
                        > info@...
                        >
                        > Tel: +27 31 2019776
                        > Fax:+27 31 2019685
                        >
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: Kitepower [mailto:kitepower@...]
                        > Sent: 28 August 2001 12:46
                        > To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: RE: [ksurf] cabrinha seam tear
                        >
                        > G'day Brian and Mike
                        >
                        > Firstly Brian, no-one here with experience with kites will believe that
                        any
                        > kite could be used by pros and thrashed by beginners for 6 months and
                        still
                        > look like new, and that was not even one of the newer Kitesurfer kites,
                        just
                        > an early proto!!??
                        > If they are seriously as good as you say, then you should stop selling
                        Naish
                        > and Wipika.
                        > If the kites weigh more due to the use of more durable materials, flight
                        > performance must suffer at least in the lower range of each kite, mustn't
                        > it?
                        >
                        > Are the Kitesurfer kites licensed by Wipika?
                        >
                        > Everything on their website seems to be a copy of someone else's stuff,
                        way
                        > out of date (smallest high wind/advanced rider board 1.99M!!)or just
                        > incorrect nonsense, flying lines are 250lb Dyneema, or some sort of cheese
                        > wire!!
                        > The advice in the beginners section is crazy, it says if you have some
                        board
                        > skills it is easy to learn to kitesurf.
                        > Also the sizes and wind ranges seem a bit weird, and they are not cheap
                        > either.
                        > They claim they are patenting all sorts of things, including the shape of
                        a
                        > double parabolic curve, but make no mention of the fact that they are
                        making
                        > a kite based on the Wipika Patent, and the Kitesurfer logo is a copy of
                        the
                        > Stonker artwork/logo IMO. It will be curious to see one and be blown away
                        by
                        > all the awesome improvements!!
                        > Should I quit all my stock of Naish Wipika and Peter Lynn?
                        >
                        > And Mike, you are a bigger than average person, that alone will put much
                        > greater loads on your gear, but I know lots of people in your "size "
                        range
                        > and they are not having to repair their kites all the time like you.
                        > Kitesurfing puts more load on a kite and its accessories than any other
                        form
                        > of kite traction, I have seen Naish bars snapped in two by 80kg riders,
                        and
                        > countless kites damaged by what people think is fair abuse, but the fact
                        > remains that for a kite to have the characteristics we need for
                        kitesurfing
                        > ( or even enjoyable sport kiting on land) they need to be built light.
                        > I remember Peter Lynn telling me over a coffee in Adelaide once that there
                        > is a certain weight per sq M of sail area that cannot be exceeded if the
                        > kite is to fly in an acceptable wind range and be durable enough to sell
                        > commercially, look at how long it has taken him and F-One to produce foil
                        > sleds in the larger sizes. Don't you think one of the inventors of kites
                        > would want to have a competitive advantage by having kites that are 2,3 or
                        5
                        > times as strong and durable as the competition but with the same
                        performance
                        > and weight?
                        > What materials would you suggest they make kites from?
                        > Without making them more expensive than they are?
                        > I can think of a few things that would improve durability in some areas,
                        but
                        > I'm sure these materials, if they existed would make the kites dearer.
                        > I cannot remember how many spars I broke in the sport kites I love to fly
                        > for recreation, when learning to do the tricks I can now do without
                        > thinking.
                        > I still believe the biggest skill that will give the best durability to
                        any
                        > brand of kite is kite control.
                        > But no-one really wants to tell beginners this as it will slow sales
                        down!!!
                        > If you get a year of constant use from an inflatable you've done well, and
                        > you will get a bit more from some foils and Peter Lynn Arcs, maybe a
                        couple
                        > of years.
                        >
                        > Cya and
                        > Goodwinds
                        > Steve McCormack
                        > http://www.kitepower.com.au
                        > mailto:sydney@...
                        > 126 Beach St, Coogee, NSW, Australia 2034
                        > Open 7 Days 9.30 - 5.30
                        > Also at 386 Latrobe Terrace Geelong Vic
                        > mailto:geelong@...
                        >
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: Tsunamisports [mailto:info@...]
                        > Sent: Tuesday, 28 August 2001 4:39
                        > To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: was: [ksurf] cabrinha seam tear, rant, F'ING RANT, RANT,
                        > RANT!!! (COM, COM, COM)
                        >
                        >
                        > Mike, the KITESURFER parabolic 2 series have just gone into full
                        production
                        > and will be available within the month. I seriously suggest you get to
                        take
                        > a look at one of these kites. We have had some early prototypes flying
                        here
                        > for the last 6 months and after being ridden hard by team riders as well
                        as
                        > being thrashed around in the surf by beginners, they are looking pretty
                        much
                        > like the day they arrived.
                        >
                        > The leading edge seams are constructed differently form the other
                        mainstream
                        > products out there now, as is the material on both the kite body and
                        bladder
                        > casings.
                        >
                        > No one can ever promise that there will never be any problems, but from
                        what
                        > I've experienced so far, these guys are definitely worth consideration.
                        >
                        > Do I have a vested interest in these comments? Yes definitely! We will be
                        > distributing KITESURFER wings locally as I have been absolutely and
                        utterly
                        > convinced by the product performance and durability I have experienced to
                        > date. I'm not making this out to be any "silver bullet", and we will still
                        > be offering many of the other fantastic products out there that are all
                        > really good in their own way, but if performance AND durability is what
                        you
                        > want, you need to take a look at these wings.
                        >
                        > I guess I'll sit back now and mentally prepare for the abuse that's sure
                        to
                        > follow :).
                        >
                        > Shaun Pretorius
                        > Tsunami Sports
                        >
                        > www.tsunamisports.co.za
                        > info@...
                        >
                        > Tel: +27 31 2019776
                        > Fax:+27 31 2019685
                        >
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: Lemke, Mike [mailto:mike@...]
                        > Sent: 28 August 2001 04:55
                        > To: 'kitesurf@yahoogroups.com '
                        > Subject: RE: [ksurf] cabrinha seam tear, rant, F'ING RANT, RANT, RANT!!!
                        >
                        > Are the Rhino's really durable? I'm really getting sick and farking
                        tired
                        > of this shit. Many on this group are pissed about projected vs.
                        > flat......I'm pissed about strength of kites and gear. I don't go
                        > huge....just small jumps....and I'm super carefull w/ my kites, yet I'm
                        > always repairing them. Am I to heavy at 240lbs? Fuck no....If I'm strong
                        > enough to hold on then my kite and gear aught to hang too.
                        >
                        > Why aren't these things made of real sail material? Why do I need to make
                        > my own bars that are strong? These are not stunt kites.....these are not
                        > windsurf sails.....these are not parachutes.....USE PROPER MATERIALS!
                        >
                        > I for one am pissed. No more recalls....no more ripped panels.....no more
                        > broken webbing adjusters.....
                        >
                        > SOMEONE make a kite that lasts a legit year.
                        >
                        > Mike
                        > Las Vegas,NV
                        >
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: iclimbtrees@...
                        > To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: 8/27/01 6:20 PM
                        > Subject: [ksurf] cabrinha seam tear, rant
                        >
                        > Hey there people.
                        > I just had a seam blow out on my 12.2 black tip. It was the one
                        > running down the back of the second strut from the end. I looked
                        > closely at the rest of the struts where the stitching starts and they
                        > seemed to be starting to tear as well. Is this common?
                        > Another peeve I have with this kite is the folded stitching along the
                        > leading edge is starting to fray, the fabric looks like it is pulling
                        > apart, I can almost seee the bladder through the fabric. This sucks
                        > cuz the kite has only been used like 17 times and only crashed a
                        > couple. The implacts were not real slams either.
                        > Is there a way of reinforcing the stitching points? Am I pumping
                        > the bladders too hard?
                        > This really sucks to spend 1500 bucks on a kite to only get 17 uses
                        > before repairs have to be made, not including the fucking bladder
                        > syndrome with these kites!!!!
                        > I dont see these problems on two year old naish and wipika products.
                        > disgruntled,
                        > mika
                        >
                        >
                        > This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com
                        > For Kitesurfers by Kitesurfers
                        >
                        > http://www.KiteHigh.com
                        >
                        > Win Board or Cabrinha Kite sweepstakes on now.
                        >
                        > 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA
                        > 808 579 9849
                        > Email:support@...
                        >
                        > <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>
                        >
                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                        > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        >
                        >
                        > This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com
                        > For Kitesurfers by Kitesurfers
                        >
                        > http://www.KiteHigh.com
                        >
                        > Win Board or Cabrinha Kite sweepstakes on now.
                        >
                        > 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA
                        > 808 579 9849
                        > Email:support@...
                        >
                        > <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>
                        >
                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com
                        > For Kitesurfers by Kitesurfers
                        >
                        > http://www.KiteHigh.com
                        >
                        > Win Board or Cabrinha Kite sweepstakes on now.
                        >
                        > 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA
                        > 808 579 9849
                        > Email:support@...
                        >
                        > <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>
                        >
                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com
                        > For Kitesurfers by Kitesurfers
                        >
                        > http://www.KiteHigh.com
                        >
                        > Win Board or Cabrinha Kite sweepstakes on now.
                        >
                        > 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA
                        > 808 579 9849
                        > Email:support@...
                        >
                        > <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>
                        >
                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com
                        > For Kitesurfers by Kitesurfers
                        >
                        > http://www.KiteHigh.com
                        >
                        > Win Board or Cabrinha Kite sweepstakes on now.
                        >
                        > 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA
                        > 808 579 9849
                        > Email:support@...
                        >
                        > <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>
                        >
                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com
                        > For Kitesurfers by Kitesurfers
                        >
                        > http://www.KiteHigh.com
                        >
                        > Win Board or Cabrinha Kite sweepstakes on now.
                        >
                        > 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA
                        > 808 579 9849
                        > Email:support@...
                        >
                        > <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>
                        >
                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • Mel
                        ... Somebody just told me their price was rather high, saying Rhino kite only cost about the same as other inflatables complete. Can anybody confirm this? ...
                        Message 11 of 16 , Aug 30, 2001
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Andy Heaton <support@...> wrote:

                          > There are a couple of Rhinos here on Maui, they look killer, haven't had
                          > the chance to fly one yet.

                          Somebody just told me their price was rather high, saying Rhino kite only
                          cost about the same as other inflatables complete. Can anybody confirm
                          this?

                          > I have been using the RRD kites a bit lately, the construction is bomber,

                          Apparently, like the Rhino, most RRDs have NO laminated material to delam
                          either. A couple of them do (including mine, which I've had no problems
                          with in 100 + hours riding), so you might want to open the LE bladder access
                          Velcro to check (near the center rib).

                          Mel
                        • Kitepower
                          I thought it was you Brian, which Steve are you referring to in your last couple of e-mails??? ;-) Cya and Goodwinds Steve McCormack
                          Message 12 of 16 , Aug 30, 2001
                          • 0 Attachment
                            I thought it was you Brian, which Steve are you referring to in your last
                            couple of e-mails??? ;-)

                            Cya and
                            Goodwinds
                            Steve McCormack
                            http://www.kitepower.com.au
                            mailto:sydney@...
                            126 Beach St, Coogee, NSW, Australia 2034
                            Open 7 Days 9.30 - 5.30
                            Also at 386 Latrobe Terrace Geelong Vic
                            mailto:geelong@...

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Suntrax [mailto:Suntrax@...]
                            Sent: Thursday, 30 August 2001 7:09
                            To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [ksurf] cabrinha seam tear. KITEPOWER RANTS AGAIN, and
                            again, and again, ...


                            Steve, just curious, who/which is the Brian you refer to in your last couple
                            of mails and where does he fit into this thread?

                            Regards

                            Brian WILSON
                            Capetown

                            Brian Wilson
                            Suntrax
                            Tel/fax 027 21 5560044
                            cell; 0824656696
                            www.suntrax.co.za

                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: Kitepower <kitepower@...>
                            To: <kitesurf@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 2:12 AM
                            Subject: RE: [ksurf] cabrinha seam tear. KITEPOWER RANTS AGAIN, and again,
                            and again, ...


                            > G'day Brian
                            > Everything you say about me is true - for you!
                            > Thanks for the laughs though, I just had a mate ring and read me the best
                            > (worst?) bits of your post. I nearly pissed myself, as I suspected you
                            would
                            > take my response the wrong way.
                            > It is a pity we cannot have a discussion about these incredible claims you
                            > made though, instead of taking 2 days to come up with your incredible
                            reply,
                            > that has avoided addressing the issues I raised that I was hoping you
                            would
                            > comment on!!
                            > My wife even said but he (you) is probably a really nice guy, and I agreed
                            > that most people are in my experience, they just have really nasty
                            > keyboards, and take everything said here personally, way too easily.
                            > I would love to get hold of a Kitesurfer kite, they have been promised to
                            be
                            > available in Oz for more than a year now, but I will give the distributor
                            > another call today actually.
                            > The other day God appeared before me, he said you can have one of 2
                            things,
                            > a big penis or an incredible memory, but I can't remember my answer?
                            > Keep smiling Brian,
                            >
                            > Cya and
                            > Goodwinds
                            > Steve McCormack
                            > http://www.kitepower.com.au
                            > mailto:sydney@...
                            > 126 Beach St, Coogee, NSW, Australia 2034
                            > Open 7 Days 9.30 - 5.30
                            > Also at 386 Latrobe Terrace Geelong Vic
                            > mailto:geelong@...
                            >
                            > -----Original Message-----
                            > From: Tsunamisports [mailto:info@...]
                            > Sent: Wednesday, 29 August 2001 6:06
                            > To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                            > Subject: was: [ksurf] cabrinha seam tear. KITEPOWER RANTS AGAIN, and
                            > again, and again, ...
                            >
                            >
                            > Steve,
                            >
                            > Frankly you have the biggest mouth on this forum and as long as everyone
                            > backs off and agrees with your sentiments all is Cool. Well frankly you
                            have
                            > LOTS to learn.
                            > You are welcome to come and verify my statements on the KS wings if you
                            > wish, otherwise give me the same courtesy and credibility you would expect
                            > others to show you as you are basically calling me a liar which is
                            unfounded
                            > and really out of line. I made it clear that we still supply other brands
                            > and I have in fact flown predominantly Naish kites over the past 2 years
                            and
                            > I have found them to be awesome kites. The latest batch of AR-X's are
                            > looking really excellent in the construction department and I do believe
                            > that they are an Excellent product.
                            >
                            > The issue at hand was about long-term durability and I think my suggestion
                            > was for Mike to TAKE A LOOK AT ONE. Not to dump everything he has and rush
                            > out and change his entire quiver. But then I suppose even this might be
                            > threat to your perceived "kingdom?"
                            >
                            > As for your concerns about their website, logo, etc, why don't you take it
                            > all up directly with them? Yes the web site is way out of date, but the
                            > products are super good and are different from those shown. Shit, maybe
                            they
                            > should spend more time building web sites and less time building and
                            > designing kites??? I think the Kitesurfer trademark and logo were
                            registered
                            > around 4 years ago at the opposite end of the globe from your beloved
                            > Stonker (if they even existed then).
                            >
                            > Steve, I don't know how to tell you this, so I'll just go ahead anyhow.
                            You
                            > are an overbearing, loud mouthed, narrow minded individual and obviously
                            > find it hard to accept that good, new and innovative things do come from
                            > other parts of the planet aside from your beloved Australia. PLEASE, the
                            > next time you feel the need to waste everyone's time with your irrelevant
                            > ramblings, STOP, THINK and THINK AGAIN before hitting the send button.
                            >
                            > PS. Why don't you get a KITESURFER wing sample and report back to the
                            group
                            > on YOUR findings? Now THAT would be interesting!
                            >
                            > Shaun Pretorius
                            > Tsunami Sports
                            >
                            > www.tsunamisports.co.za
                            > info@...
                            >
                            > Tel: +27 31 2019776
                            > Fax:+27 31 2019685
                            >
                            > -----Original Message-----
                            > From: Kitepower [mailto:kitepower@...]
                            > Sent: 28 August 2001 12:46
                            > To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                            > Subject: RE: [ksurf] cabrinha seam tear
                            >
                            > G'day Brian and Mike
                            >
                            > Firstly Brian, no-one here with experience with kites will believe that
                            any
                            > kite could be used by pros and thrashed by beginners for 6 months and
                            still
                            > look like new, and that was not even one of the newer Kitesurfer kites,
                            just
                            > an early proto!!??
                            > If they are seriously as good as you say, then you should stop selling
                            Naish
                            > and Wipika.
                            > If the kites weigh more due to the use of more durable materials, flight
                            > performance must suffer at least in the lower range of each kite, mustn't
                            > it?
                            >
                            > Are the Kitesurfer kites licensed by Wipika?
                            >
                            > Everything on their website seems to be a copy of someone else's stuff,
                            way
                            > out of date (smallest high wind/advanced rider board 1.99M!!)or just
                            > incorrect nonsense, flying lines are 250lb Dyneema, or some sort of cheese
                            > wire!!
                            > The advice in the beginners section is crazy, it says if you have some
                            board
                            > skills it is easy to learn to kitesurf.
                            > Also the sizes and wind ranges seem a bit weird, and they are not cheap
                            > either.
                            > They claim they are patenting all sorts of things, including the shape of
                            a
                            > double parabolic curve, but make no mention of the fact that they are
                            making
                            > a kite based on the Wipika Patent, and the Kitesurfer logo is a copy of
                            the
                            > Stonker artwork/logo IMO. It will be curious to see one and be blown away
                            by
                            > all the awesome improvements!!
                            > Should I quit all my stock of Naish Wipika and Peter Lynn?
                            >
                            > And Mike, you are a bigger than average person, that alone will put much
                            > greater loads on your gear, but I know lots of people in your "size "
                            range
                            > and they are not having to repair their kites all the time like you.
                            > Kitesurfing puts more load on a kite and its accessories than any other
                            form
                            > of kite traction, I have seen Naish bars snapped in two by 80kg riders,
                            and
                            > countless kites damaged by what people think is fair abuse, but the fact
                            > remains that for a kite to have the characteristics we need for
                            kitesurfing
                            > ( or even enjoyable sport kiting on land) they need to be built light.
                            > I remember Peter Lynn telling me over a coffee in Adelaide once that there
                            > is a certain weight per sq M of sail area that cannot be exceeded if the
                            > kite is to fly in an acceptable wind range and be durable enough to sell
                            > commercially, look at how long it has taken him and F-One to produce foil
                            > sleds in the larger sizes. Don't you think one of the inventors of kites
                            > would want to have a competitive advantage by having kites that are 2,3 or
                            5
                            > times as strong and durable as the competition but with the same
                            performance
                            > and weight?
                            > What materials would you suggest they make kites from?
                            > Without making them more expensive than they are?
                            > I can think of a few things that would improve durability in some areas,
                            but
                            > I'm sure these materials, if they existed would make the kites dearer.
                            > I cannot remember how many spars I broke in the sport kites I love to fly
                            > for recreation, when learning to do the tricks I can now do without
                            > thinking.
                            > I still believe the biggest skill that will give the best durability to
                            any
                            > brand of kite is kite control.
                            > But no-one really wants to tell beginners this as it will slow sales
                            down!!!
                            > If you get a year of constant use from an inflatable you've done well, and
                            > you will get a bit more from some foils and Peter Lynn Arcs, maybe a
                            couple
                            > of years.
                            >
                            > Cya and
                            > Goodwinds
                            > Steve McCormack
                            > http://www.kitepower.com.au
                            > mailto:sydney@...
                            > 126 Beach St, Coogee, NSW, Australia 2034
                            > Open 7 Days 9.30 - 5.30
                            > Also at 386 Latrobe Terrace Geelong Vic
                            > mailto:geelong@...
                            >
                            > -----Original Message-----
                            > From: Tsunamisports [mailto:info@...]
                            > Sent: Tuesday, 28 August 2001 4:39
                            > To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                            > Subject: was: [ksurf] cabrinha seam tear, rant, F'ING RANT, RANT,
                            > RANT!!! (COM, COM, COM)
                            >
                            >
                            > Mike, the KITESURFER parabolic 2 series have just gone into full
                            production
                            > and will be available within the month. I seriously suggest you get to
                            take
                            > a look at one of these kites. We have had some early prototypes flying
                            here
                            > for the last 6 months and after being ridden hard by team riders as well
                            as
                            > being thrashed around in the surf by beginners, they are looking pretty
                            much
                            > like the day they arrived.
                            >
                            > The leading edge seams are constructed differently form the other
                            mainstream
                            > products out there now, as is the material on both the kite body and
                            bladder
                            > casings.
                            >
                            > No one can ever promise that there will never be any problems, but from
                            what
                            > I've experienced so far, these guys are definitely worth consideration.
                            >
                            > Do I have a vested interest in these comments? Yes definitely! We will be
                            > distributing KITESURFER wings locally as I have been absolutely and
                            utterly
                            > convinced by the product performance and durability I have experienced to
                            > date. I'm not making this out to be any "silver bullet", and we will still
                            > be offering many of the other fantastic products out there that are all
                            > really good in their own way, but if performance AND durability is what
                            you
                            > want, you need to take a look at these wings.
                            >
                            > I guess I'll sit back now and mentally prepare for the abuse that's sure
                            to
                            > follow :).
                            >
                            > Shaun Pretorius
                            > Tsunami Sports
                            >
                            > www.tsunamisports.co.za
                            > info@...
                            >
                            > Tel: +27 31 2019776
                            > Fax:+27 31 2019685
                            >
                            > -----Original Message-----
                            > From: Lemke, Mike [mailto:mike@...]
                            > Sent: 28 August 2001 04:55
                            > To: 'kitesurf@yahoogroups.com '
                            > Subject: RE: [ksurf] cabrinha seam tear, rant, F'ING RANT, RANT, RANT!!!
                            >
                            > Are the Rhino's really durable? I'm really getting sick and farking
                            tired
                            > of this shit. Many on this group are pissed about projected vs.
                            > flat......I'm pissed about strength of kites and gear. I don't go
                            > huge....just small jumps....and I'm super carefull w/ my kites, yet I'm
                            > always repairing them. Am I to heavy at 240lbs? Fuck no....If I'm strong
                            > enough to hold on then my kite and gear aught to hang too.
                            >
                            > Why aren't these things made of real sail material? Why do I need to make
                            > my own bars that are strong? These are not stunt kites.....these are not
                            > windsurf sails.....these are not parachutes.....USE PROPER MATERIALS!
                            >
                            > I for one am pissed. No more recalls....no more ripped panels.....no more
                            > broken webbing adjusters.....
                            >
                            > SOMEONE make a kite that lasts a legit year.
                            >
                            > Mike
                            > Las Vegas,NV
                            >
                            > -----Original Message-----
                            > From: iclimbtrees@...
                            > To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                            > Sent: 8/27/01 6:20 PM
                            > Subject: [ksurf] cabrinha seam tear, rant
                            >
                            > Hey there people.
                            > I just had a seam blow out on my 12.2 black tip. It was the one
                            > running down the back of the second strut from the end. I looked
                            > closely at the rest of the struts where the stitching starts and they
                            > seemed to be starting to tear as well. Is this common?
                            > Another peeve I have with this kite is the folded stitching along the
                            > leading edge is starting to fray, the fabric looks like it is pulling
                            > apart, I can almost seee the bladder through the fabric. This sucks
                            > cuz the kite has only been used like 17 times and only crashed a
                            > couple. The implacts were not real slams either.
                            > Is there a way of reinforcing the stitching points? Am I pumping
                            > the bladders too hard?
                            > This really sucks to spend 1500 bucks on a kite to only get 17 uses
                            > before repairs have to be made, not including the fucking bladder
                            > syndrome with these kites!!!!
                            > I dont see these problems on two year old naish and wipika products.
                            > disgruntled,
                            > mika
                            >
                            >
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                          • Suntrax
                            Steve You addressed your last two mails on this thread to a Brian and as I do post on this group occasionally I wanted clarification, as it looks like you are
                            Message 13 of 16 , Aug 31, 2001
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Steve

                              You addressed your last two mails on this thread to a Brian and as I do post
                              on this group occasionally I wanted clarification, as it looks like you are
                              confusing me with Shaun from Tsunami for some reason , if you reread your
                              mails.

                              But it does sound like your wife has introduced an element of inteligence
                              and common sense into your family :-)

                              Good winds

                              Brian

                              Brian Wilson
                              Suntrax
                              Tel/fax 027 21 5560044
                              cell; 0824656696
                              www.suntrax.co.za

                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: Kitepower <kitepower@...>
                              To: <kitesurf@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 1:16 AM
                              Subject: RE: [ksurf] cabrinha seam tear. KITEPOWER RANTS AGAIN, and again,
                              and again, ...


                              > I thought it was you Brian, which Steve are you referring to in your last
                              > couple of e-mails??? ;-)
                              >
                              > Cya and
                              > Goodwinds
                              > Steve McCormack
                              > http://www.kitepower.com.au
                              > mailto:sydney@...
                              > 126 Beach St, Coogee, NSW, Australia 2034
                              > Open 7 Days 9.30 - 5.30
                              > Also at 386 Latrobe Terrace Geelong Vic
                              > mailto:geelong@...
                              >
                              > -----Original Message-----
                              > From: Suntrax [mailto:Suntrax@...]
                              > Sent: Thursday, 30 August 2001 7:09
                              > To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                              > Subject: Re: [ksurf] cabrinha seam tear. KITEPOWER RANTS AGAIN, and
                              > again, and again, ...
                              >
                              >
                              > Steve, just curious, who/which is the Brian you refer to in your last
                              couple
                              > of mails and where does he fit into this thread?
                              >
                              > Regards
                              >
                              > Brian WILSON
                              > Capetown
                              >
                              > Brian Wilson
                              > Suntrax
                              > Tel/fax 027 21 5560044
                              > cell; 0824656696
                              > www.suntrax.co.za
                              >
                              > ----- Original Message -----
                              > From: Kitepower <kitepower@...>
                              > To: <kitesurf@yahoogroups.com>
                              > Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 2:12 AM
                              > Subject: RE: [ksurf] cabrinha seam tear. KITEPOWER RANTS AGAIN, and again,
                              > and again, ...
                              >
                              >
                              > > G'day Brian
                              > > Everything you say about me is true - for you!
                              > > Thanks for the laughs though, I just had a mate ring and read me the
                              best
                              > > (worst?) bits of your post. I nearly pissed myself, as I suspected you
                              > would
                              > > take my response the wrong way.
                              > > It is a pity we cannot have a discussion about these incredible claims
                              you
                              > > made though, instead of taking 2 days to come up with your incredible
                              > reply,
                              > > that has avoided addressing the issues I raised that I was hoping you
                              > would
                              > > comment on!!
                              > > My wife even said but he (you) is probably a really nice guy, and I
                              agreed
                              > > that most people are in my experience, they just have really nasty
                              > > keyboards, and take everything said here personally, way too easily.
                              > > I would love to get hold of a Kitesurfer kite, they have been promised
                              to
                              > be
                              > > available in Oz for more than a year now, but I will give the
                              distributor
                              > > another call today actually.
                              > > The other day God appeared before me, he said you can have one of 2
                              > things,
                              > > a big penis or an incredible memory, but I can't remember my answer?
                              > > Keep smiling Brian,
                              > >
                              > > Cya and
                              > > Goodwinds
                              > > Steve McCormack
                              > > http://www.kitepower.com.au
                              > > mailto:sydney@...
                              > > 126 Beach St, Coogee, NSW, Australia 2034
                              > > Open 7 Days 9.30 - 5.30
                              > > Also at 386 Latrobe Terrace Geelong Vic
                              > > mailto:geelong@...
                              > >
                              > > -----Original Message-----
                              > > From: Tsunamisports [mailto:info@...]
                              > > Sent: Wednesday, 29 August 2001 6:06
                              > > To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                              > > Subject: was: [ksurf] cabrinha seam tear. KITEPOWER RANTS AGAIN, and
                              > > again, and again, ...
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Steve,
                              > >
                              > > Frankly you have the biggest mouth on this forum and as long as everyone
                              > > backs off and agrees with your sentiments all is Cool. Well frankly you
                              > have
                              > > LOTS to learn.
                              > > You are welcome to come and verify my statements on the KS wings if you
                              > > wish, otherwise give me the same courtesy and credibility you would
                              expect
                              > > others to show you as you are basically calling me a liar which is
                              > unfounded
                              > > and really out of line. I made it clear that we still supply other
                              brands
                              > > and I have in fact flown predominantly Naish kites over the past 2 years
                              > and
                              > > I have found them to be awesome kites. The latest batch of AR-X's are
                              > > looking really excellent in the construction department and I do believe
                              > > that they are an Excellent product.
                              > >
                              > > The issue at hand was about long-term durability and I think my
                              suggestion
                              > > was for Mike to TAKE A LOOK AT ONE. Not to dump everything he has and
                              rush
                              > > out and change his entire quiver. But then I suppose even this might be
                              > > threat to your perceived "kingdom?"
                              > >
                              > > As for your concerns about their website, logo, etc, why don't you take
                              it
                              > > all up directly with them? Yes the web site is way out of date, but the
                              > > products are super good and are different from those shown. Shit, maybe
                              > they
                              > > should spend more time building web sites and less time building and
                              > > designing kites??? I think the Kitesurfer trademark and logo were
                              > registered
                              > > around 4 years ago at the opposite end of the globe from your beloved
                              > > Stonker (if they even existed then).
                              > >
                              > > Steve, I don't know how to tell you this, so I'll just go ahead anyhow.
                              > You
                              > > are an overbearing, loud mouthed, narrow minded individual and obviously
                              > > find it hard to accept that good, new and innovative things do come from
                              > > other parts of the planet aside from your beloved Australia. PLEASE, the
                              > > next time you feel the need to waste everyone's time with your
                              irrelevant
                              > > ramblings, STOP, THINK and THINK AGAIN before hitting the send button.
                              > >
                              > > PS. Why don't you get a KITESURFER wing sample and report back to the
                              > group
                              > > on YOUR findings? Now THAT would be interesting!
                              > >
                              > > Shaun Pretorius
                              > > Tsunami Sports
                              > >
                              > > www.tsunamisports.co.za
                              > > info@...
                              > >
                              > > Tel: +27 31 2019776
                              > > Fax:+27 31 2019685
                              > >
                              > > -----Original Message-----
                              > > From: Kitepower [mailto:kitepower@...]
                              > > Sent: 28 August 2001 12:46
                              > > To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                              > > Subject: RE: [ksurf] cabrinha seam tear
                              > >
                              > > G'day Brian and Mike
                              > >
                              > > Firstly Brian, no-one here with experience with kites will believe that
                              > any
                              > > kite could be used by pros and thrashed by beginners for 6 months and
                              > still
                              > > look like new, and that was not even one of the newer Kitesurfer kites,
                              > just
                              > > an early proto!!??
                              > > If they are seriously as good as you say, then you should stop selling
                              > Naish
                              > > and Wipika.
                              > > If the kites weigh more due to the use of more durable materials, flight
                              > > performance must suffer at least in the lower range of each kite,
                              mustn't
                              > > it?
                              > >
                              > > Are the Kitesurfer kites licensed by Wipika?
                              > >
                              > > Everything on their website seems to be a copy of someone else's stuff,
                              > way
                              > > out of date (smallest high wind/advanced rider board 1.99M!!)or just
                              > > incorrect nonsense, flying lines are 250lb Dyneema, or some sort of
                              cheese
                              > > wire!!
                              > > The advice in the beginners section is crazy, it says if you have some
                              > board
                              > > skills it is easy to learn to kitesurf.
                              > > Also the sizes and wind ranges seem a bit weird, and they are not cheap
                              > > either.
                              > > They claim they are patenting all sorts of things, including the shape
                              of
                              > a
                              > > double parabolic curve, but make no mention of the fact that they are
                              > making
                              > > a kite based on the Wipika Patent, and the Kitesurfer logo is a copy of
                              > the
                              > > Stonker artwork/logo IMO. It will be curious to see one and be blown
                              away
                              > by
                              > > all the awesome improvements!!
                              > > Should I quit all my stock of Naish Wipika and Peter Lynn?
                              > >
                              > > And Mike, you are a bigger than average person, that alone will put much
                              > > greater loads on your gear, but I know lots of people in your "size "
                              > range
                              > > and they are not having to repair their kites all the time like you.
                              > > Kitesurfing puts more load on a kite and its accessories than any other
                              > form
                              > > of kite traction, I have seen Naish bars snapped in two by 80kg riders,
                              > and
                              > > countless kites damaged by what people think is fair abuse, but the fact
                              > > remains that for a kite to have the characteristics we need for
                              > kitesurfing
                              > > ( or even enjoyable sport kiting on land) they need to be built light.
                              > > I remember Peter Lynn telling me over a coffee in Adelaide once that
                              there
                              > > is a certain weight per sq M of sail area that cannot be exceeded if the
                              > > kite is to fly in an acceptable wind range and be durable enough to sell
                              > > commercially, look at how long it has taken him and F-One to produce
                              foil
                              > > sleds in the larger sizes. Don't you think one of the inventors of kites
                              > > would want to have a competitive advantage by having kites that are 2,3
                              or
                              > 5
                              > > times as strong and durable as the competition but with the same
                              > performance
                              > > and weight?
                              > > What materials would you suggest they make kites from?
                              > > Without making them more expensive than they are?
                              > > I can think of a few things that would improve durability in some areas,
                              > but
                              > > I'm sure these materials, if they existed would make the kites dearer.
                              > > I cannot remember how many spars I broke in the sport kites I love to
                              fly
                              > > for recreation, when learning to do the tricks I can now do without
                              > > thinking.
                              > > I still believe the biggest skill that will give the best durability to
                              > any
                              > > brand of kite is kite control.
                              > > But no-one really wants to tell beginners this as it will slow sales
                              > down!!!
                              > > If you get a year of constant use from an inflatable you've done well,
                              and
                              > > you will get a bit more from some foils and Peter Lynn Arcs, maybe a
                              > couple
                              > > of years.
                              > >
                              > > Cya and
                              > > Goodwinds
                              > > Steve McCormack
                              > > http://www.kitepower.com.au
                              > > mailto:sydney@...
                              > > 126 Beach St, Coogee, NSW, Australia 2034
                              > > Open 7 Days 9.30 - 5.30
                              > > Also at 386 Latrobe Terrace Geelong Vic
                              > > mailto:geelong@...
                              > >
                              > > -----Original Message-----
                              > > From: Tsunamisports [mailto:info@...]
                              > > Sent: Tuesday, 28 August 2001 4:39
                              > > To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                              > > Subject: was: [ksurf] cabrinha seam tear, rant, F'ING RANT, RANT,
                              > > RANT!!! (COM, COM, COM)
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Mike, the KITESURFER parabolic 2 series have just gone into full
                              > production
                              > > and will be available within the month. I seriously suggest you get to
                              > take
                              > > a look at one of these kites. We have had some early prototypes flying
                              > here
                              > > for the last 6 months and after being ridden hard by team riders as well
                              > as
                              > > being thrashed around in the surf by beginners, they are looking pretty
                              > much
                              > > like the day they arrived.
                              > >
                              > > The leading edge seams are constructed differently form the other
                              > mainstream
                              > > products out there now, as is the material on both the kite body and
                              > bladder
                              > > casings.
                              > >
                              > > No one can ever promise that there will never be any problems, but from
                              > what
                              > > I've experienced so far, these guys are definitely worth consideration.
                              > >
                              > > Do I have a vested interest in these comments? Yes definitely! We will
                              be
                              > > distributing KITESURFER wings locally as I have been absolutely and
                              > utterly
                              > > convinced by the product performance and durability I have experienced
                              to
                              > > date. I'm not making this out to be any "silver bullet", and we will
                              still
                              > > be offering many of the other fantastic products out there that are all
                              > > really good in their own way, but if performance AND durability is what
                              > you
                              > > want, you need to take a look at these wings.
                              > >
                              > > I guess I'll sit back now and mentally prepare for the abuse that's sure
                              > to
                              > > follow :).
                              > >
                              > > Shaun Pretorius
                              > > Tsunami Sports
                              > >
                              > > www.tsunamisports.co.za
                              > > info@...
                              > >
                              > > Tel: +27 31 2019776
                              > > Fax:+27 31 2019685
                              > >
                              > > -----Original Message-----
                              > > From: Lemke, Mike [mailto:mike@...]
                              > > Sent: 28 August 2001 04:55
                              > > To: 'kitesurf@yahoogroups.com '
                              > > Subject: RE: [ksurf] cabrinha seam tear, rant, F'ING RANT, RANT, RANT!!!
                              > >
                              > > Are the Rhino's really durable? I'm really getting sick and farking
                              > tired
                              > > of this shit. Many on this group are pissed about projected vs.
                              > > flat......I'm pissed about strength of kites and gear. I don't go
                              > > huge....just small jumps....and I'm super carefull w/ my kites, yet I'm
                              > > always repairing them. Am I to heavy at 240lbs? Fuck no....If I'm
                              strong
                              > > enough to hold on then my kite and gear aught to hang too.
                              > >
                              > > Why aren't these things made of real sail material? Why do I need to
                              make
                              > > my own bars that are strong? These are not stunt kites.....these are
                              not
                              > > windsurf sails.....these are not parachutes.....USE PROPER MATERIALS!
                              > >
                              > > I for one am pissed. No more recalls....no more ripped panels.....no
                              more
                              > > broken webbing adjusters.....
                              > >
                              > > SOMEONE make a kite that lasts a legit year.
                              > >
                              > > Mike
                              > > Las Vegas,NV
                              > >
                              > > -----Original Message-----
                              > > From: iclimbtrees@...
                              > > To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                              > > Sent: 8/27/01 6:20 PM
                              > > Subject: [ksurf] cabrinha seam tear, rant
                              > >
                              > > Hey there people.
                              > > I just had a seam blow out on my 12.2 black tip. It was the one
                              > > running down the back of the second strut from the end. I looked
                              > > closely at the rest of the struts where the stitching starts and they
                              > > seemed to be starting to tear as well. Is this common?
                              > > Another peeve I have with this kite is the folded stitching along the
                              > > leading edge is starting to fray, the fabric looks like it is pulling
                              > > apart, I can almost seee the bladder through the fabric. This sucks
                              > > cuz the kite has only been used like 17 times and only crashed a
                              > > couple. The implacts were not real slams either.
                              > > Is there a way of reinforcing the stitching points? Am I pumping
                              > > the bladders too hard?
                              > > This really sucks to spend 1500 bucks on a kite to only get 17 uses
                              > > before repairs have to be made, not including the fucking bladder
                              > > syndrome with these kites!!!!
                              > > I dont see these problems on two year old naish and wipika products.
                              > > disgruntled,
                              > > mika
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com
                              > > For Kitesurfers by Kitesurfers
                              > >
                              > > http://www.KiteHigh.com
                              > >
                              > > Win Board or Cabrinha Kite sweepstakes on now.
                              > >
                              > > 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA
                              > > 808 579 9849
                              > > Email:support@...
                              > >
                              > > <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>
                              > >
                              > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                              > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com
                              > > For Kitesurfers by Kitesurfers
                              > >
                              > > http://www.KiteHigh.com
                              > >
                              > > Win Board or Cabrinha Kite sweepstakes on now.
                              > >
                              > > 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA
                              > > 808 579 9849
                              > > Email:support@...
                              > >
                              > > <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>
                              > >
                              > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                              http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com
                              > > For Kitesurfers by Kitesurfers
                              > >
                              > > http://www.KiteHigh.com
                              > >
                              > > Win Board or Cabrinha Kite sweepstakes on now.
                              > >
                              > > 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA
                              > > 808 579 9849
                              > > Email:support@...
                              > >
                              > > <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>
                              > >
                              > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                              http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com
                              > > For Kitesurfers by Kitesurfers
                              > >
                              > > http://www.KiteHigh.com
                              > >
                              > > Win Board or Cabrinha Kite sweepstakes on now.
                              > >
                              > > 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA
                              > > 808 579 9849
                              > > Email:support@...
                              > >
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                              > >
                              > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                              http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com
                              > > For Kitesurfers by Kitesurfers
                              > >
                              > > http://www.KiteHigh.com
                              > >
                              > > Win Board or Cabrinha Kite sweepstakes on now.
                              > >
                              > > 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA
                              > > 808 579 9849
                              > > Email:support@...
                              > >
                              > > <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>
                              > >
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                              http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com
                              > > For Kitesurfers by Kitesurfers
                              > >
                              > > http://www.KiteHigh.com
                              > >
                              > > Win Board or Cabrinha Kite sweepstakes on now.
                              > >
                              > > 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA
                              > > 808 579 9849
                              > > Email:support@...
                              > >
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                              > >
                              > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                              http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com
                              > For Kitesurfers by Kitesurfers
                              >
                              > http://www.KiteHigh.com
                              >
                              > Win Board or Cabrinha Kite sweepstakes on now.
                              >
                              > 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA
                              > 808 579 9849
                              > Email:support@...
                              >
                              > <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>
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                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com
                              > For Kitesurfers by Kitesurfers
                              >
                              > http://www.KiteHigh.com
                              >
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                              >
                              > 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA
                              > 808 579 9849
                              > Email:support@...
                              >
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                              >
                              >
                              >
                            • thorpes@arklogic.com
                              ... I guess all you boere look alike to the auzzies ;-) Steve T.
                              Message 14 of 16 , Aug 31, 2001
                              • 0 Attachment
                                --- In kitesurf@y..., "Suntrax" <Suntrax@i...> wrote:
                                > Steve
                                >..it looks like you are confusing me with Shaun from Tsunami
                                > for some reason , if you reread your mails.

                                I guess all you boere look alike to the auzzies ;-)

                                Steve T.
                              • Kitepower
                                Mate if you start taking sides with her its all out war, she always does that and does not need encouragement or support!! I m confused. My posts are not to be
                                Message 15 of 16 , Aug 31, 2001
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Mate if you start taking sides with her its all out war, she always does
                                  that and does not need encouragement or support!!
                                  I'm confused.
                                  My posts are not to be taken personally though, I just like to call it how
                                  it is, even if it does stir the shit a bit.
                                  ;-)
                                  But I have to shut-up now or the captain1 dude will get me!

                                  Cya and
                                  Goodwinds
                                  Steve McCormack
                                  http://www.kitepower.com.au
                                  mailto:sydney@...
                                  126 Beach St, Coogee, NSW, Australia 2034
                                  Open 7 Days 9.30 - 5.30
                                  Also at 386 Latrobe Terrace Geelong Vic
                                  mailto:geelong@...

                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: Suntrax [mailto:Suntrax@...]
                                  Sent: Friday, 31 August 2001 10:38
                                  To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [ksurf] cabrinha seam tear. KITEPOWER RANTS AGAIN, and
                                  again, and again, ...


                                  Steve

                                  You addressed your last two mails on this thread to a Brian and as I do post
                                  on this group occasionally I wanted clarification, as it looks like you are
                                  confusing me with Shaun from Tsunami for some reason , if you reread your
                                  mails.

                                  But it does sound like your wife has introduced an element of inteligence
                                  and common sense into your family :-)

                                  Good winds

                                  Brian

                                  Brian Wilson
                                  Suntrax
                                  Tel/fax 027 21 5560044
                                  cell; 0824656696
                                  www.suntrax.co.za

                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: Kitepower <kitepower@...>
                                  To: <kitesurf@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 1:16 AM
                                  Subject: RE: [ksurf] cabrinha seam tear. KITEPOWER RANTS AGAIN, and again,
                                  and again, ...


                                  > I thought it was you Brian, which Steve are you referring to in your last
                                  > couple of e-mails??? ;-)
                                  >
                                  > Cya and
                                  > Goodwinds
                                  > Steve McCormack
                                  > http://www.kitepower.com.au
                                  > mailto:sydney@...
                                  > 126 Beach St, Coogee, NSW, Australia 2034
                                  > Open 7 Days 9.30 - 5.30
                                  > Also at 386 Latrobe Terrace Geelong Vic
                                  > mailto:geelong@...
                                  >
                                  > -----Original Message-----
                                  > From: Suntrax [mailto:Suntrax@...]
                                  > Sent: Thursday, 30 August 2001 7:09
                                  > To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Subject: Re: [ksurf] cabrinha seam tear. KITEPOWER RANTS AGAIN, and
                                  > again, and again, ...
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Steve, just curious, who/which is the Brian you refer to in your last
                                  couple
                                  > of mails and where does he fit into this thread?
                                  >
                                  > Regards
                                  >
                                  > Brian WILSON
                                  > Capetown
                                  >
                                  > Brian Wilson
                                  > Suntrax
                                  > Tel/fax 027 21 5560044
                                  > cell; 0824656696
                                  > www.suntrax.co.za
                                  >
                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > From: Kitepower <kitepower@...>
                                  > To: <kitesurf@yahoogroups.com>
                                  > Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 2:12 AM
                                  > Subject: RE: [ksurf] cabrinha seam tear. KITEPOWER RANTS AGAIN, and again,
                                  > and again, ...
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > > G'day Brian
                                  > > Everything you say about me is true - for you!
                                  > > Thanks for the laughs though, I just had a mate ring and read me the
                                  best
                                  > > (worst?) bits of your post. I nearly pissed myself, as I suspected you
                                  > would
                                  > > take my response the wrong way.
                                  > > It is a pity we cannot have a discussion about these incredible claims
                                  you
                                  > > made though, instead of taking 2 days to come up with your incredible
                                  > reply,
                                  > > that has avoided addressing the issues I raised that I was hoping you
                                  > would
                                  > > comment on!!
                                  > > My wife even said but he (you) is probably a really nice guy, and I
                                  agreed
                                  > > that most people are in my experience, they just have really nasty
                                  > > keyboards, and take everything said here personally, way too easily.
                                  > > I would love to get hold of a Kitesurfer kite, they have been promised
                                  to
                                  > be
                                  > > available in Oz for more than a year now, but I will give the
                                  distributor
                                  > > another call today actually.
                                  > > The other day God appeared before me, he said you can have one of 2
                                  > things,
                                  > > a big penis or an incredible memory, but I can't remember my answer?
                                  > > Keep smiling Brian,
                                  > >
                                  > > Cya and
                                  > > Goodwinds
                                  > > Steve McCormack
                                  > > http://www.kitepower.com.au
                                  > > mailto:sydney@...
                                  > > 126 Beach St, Coogee, NSW, Australia 2034
                                  > > Open 7 Days 9.30 - 5.30
                                  > > Also at 386 Latrobe Terrace Geelong Vic
                                  > > mailto:geelong@...
                                  > >
                                  > > -----Original Message-----
                                  > > From: Tsunamisports [mailto:info@...]
                                  > > Sent: Wednesday, 29 August 2001 6:06
                                  > > To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > Subject: was: [ksurf] cabrinha seam tear. KITEPOWER RANTS AGAIN, and
                                  > > again, and again, ...
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Steve,
                                  > >
                                  > > Frankly you have the biggest mouth on this forum and as long as everyone
                                  > > backs off and agrees with your sentiments all is Cool. Well frankly you
                                  > have
                                  > > LOTS to learn.
                                  > > You are welcome to come and verify my statements on the KS wings if you
                                  > > wish, otherwise give me the same courtesy and credibility you would
                                  expect
                                  > > others to show you as you are basically calling me a liar which is
                                  > unfounded
                                  > > and really out of line. I made it clear that we still supply other
                                  brands
                                  > > and I have in fact flown predominantly Naish kites over the past 2 years
                                  > and
                                  > > I have found them to be awesome kites. The latest batch of AR-X's are
                                  > > looking really excellent in the construction department and I do believe
                                  > > that they are an Excellent product.
                                  > >
                                  > > The issue at hand was about long-term durability and I think my
                                  suggestion
                                  > > was for Mike to TAKE A LOOK AT ONE. Not to dump everything he has and
                                  rush
                                  > > out and change his entire quiver. But then I suppose even this might be
                                  > > threat to your perceived "kingdom?"
                                  > >
                                  > > As for your concerns about their website, logo, etc, why don't you take
                                  it
                                  > > all up directly with them? Yes the web site is way out of date, but the
                                  > > products are super good and are different from those shown. Shit, maybe
                                  > they
                                  > > should spend more time building web sites and less time building and
                                  > > designing kites??? I think the Kitesurfer trademark and logo were
                                  > registered
                                  > > around 4 years ago at the opposite end of the globe from your beloved
                                  > > Stonker (if they even existed then).
                                  > >
                                  > > Steve, I don't know how to tell you this, so I'll just go ahead anyhow.
                                  > You
                                  > > are an overbearing, loud mouthed, narrow minded individual and obviously
                                  > > find it hard to accept that good, new and innovative things do come from
                                  > > other parts of the planet aside from your beloved Australia. PLEASE, the
                                  > > next time you feel the need to waste everyone's time with your
                                  irrelevant
                                  > > ramblings, STOP, THINK and THINK AGAIN before hitting the send button.
                                  > >
                                  > > PS. Why don't you get a KITESURFER wing sample and report back to the
                                  > group
                                  > > on YOUR findings? Now THAT would be interesting!
                                  > >
                                  > > Shaun Pretorius
                                  > > Tsunami Sports
                                  > >
                                  > > www.tsunamisports.co.za
                                  > > info@...
                                  > >
                                  > > Tel: +27 31 2019776
                                  > > Fax:+27 31 2019685
                                  > >
                                  > > -----Original Message-----
                                  > > From: Kitepower [mailto:kitepower@...]
                                  > > Sent: 28 August 2001 12:46
                                  > > To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > Subject: RE: [ksurf] cabrinha seam tear
                                  > >
                                  > > G'day Brian and Mike
                                  > >
                                  > > Firstly Brian, no-one here with experience with kites will believe that
                                  > any
                                  > > kite could be used by pros and thrashed by beginners for 6 months and
                                  > still
                                  > > look like new, and that was not even one of the newer Kitesurfer kites,
                                  > just
                                  > > an early proto!!??
                                  > > If they are seriously as good as you say, then you should stop selling
                                  > Naish
                                  > > and Wipika.
                                  > > If the kites weigh more due to the use of more durable materials, flight
                                  > > performance must suffer at least in the lower range of each kite,
                                  mustn't
                                  > > it?
                                  > >
                                  > > Are the Kitesurfer kites licensed by Wipika?
                                  > >
                                  > > Everything on their website seems to be a copy of someone else's stuff,
                                  > way
                                  > > out of date (smallest high wind/advanced rider board 1.99M!!)or just
                                  > > incorrect nonsense, flying lines are 250lb Dyneema, or some sort of
                                  cheese
                                  > > wire!!
                                  > > The advice in the beginners section is crazy, it says if you have some
                                  > board
                                  > > skills it is easy to learn to kitesurf.
                                  > > Also the sizes and wind ranges seem a bit weird, and they are not cheap
                                  > > either.
                                  > > They claim they are patenting all sorts of things, including the shape
                                  of
                                  > a
                                  > > double parabolic curve, but make no mention of the fact that they are
                                  > making
                                  > > a kite based on the Wipika Patent, and the Kitesurfer logo is a copy of
                                  > the
                                  > > Stonker artwork/logo IMO. It will be curious to see one and be blown
                                  away
                                  > by
                                  > > all the awesome improvements!!
                                  > > Should I quit all my stock of Naish Wipika and Peter Lynn?
                                  > >
                                  > > And Mike, you are a bigger than average person, that alone will put much
                                  > > greater loads on your gear, but I know lots of people in your "size "
                                  > range
                                  > > and they are not having to repair their kites all the time like you.
                                  > > Kitesurfing puts more load on a kite and its accessories than any other
                                  > form
                                  > > of kite traction, I have seen Naish bars snapped in two by 80kg riders,
                                  > and
                                  > > countless kites damaged by what people think is fair abuse, but the fact
                                  > > remains that for a kite to have the characteristics we need for
                                  > kitesurfing
                                  > > ( or even enjoyable sport kiting on land) they need to be built light.
                                  > > I remember Peter Lynn telling me over a coffee in Adelaide once that
                                  there
                                  > > is a certain weight per sq M of sail area that cannot be exceeded if the
                                  > > kite is to fly in an acceptable wind range and be durable enough to sell
                                  > > commercially, look at how long it has taken him and F-One to produce
                                  foil
                                  > > sleds in the larger sizes. Don't you think one of the inventors of kites
                                  > > would want to have a competitive advantage by having kites that are 2,3
                                  or
                                  > 5
                                  > > times as strong and durable as the competition but with the same
                                  > performance
                                  > > and weight?
                                  > > What materials would you suggest they make kites from?
                                  > > Without making them more expensive than they are?
                                  > > I can think of a few things that would improve durability in some areas,
                                  > but
                                  > > I'm sure these materials, if they existed would make the kites dearer.
                                  > > I cannot remember how many spars I broke in the sport kites I love to
                                  fly
                                  > > for recreation, when learning to do the tricks I can now do without
                                  > > thinking.
                                  > > I still believe the biggest skill that will give the best durability to
                                  > any
                                  > > brand of kite is kite control.
                                  > > But no-one really wants to tell beginners this as it will slow sales
                                  > down!!!
                                  > > If you get a year of constant use from an inflatable you've done well,
                                  and
                                  > > you will get a bit more from some foils and Peter Lynn Arcs, maybe a
                                  > couple
                                  > > of years.
                                  > >
                                  > > Cya and
                                  > > Goodwinds
                                  > > Steve McCormack
                                  > > http://www.kitepower.com.au
                                  > > mailto:sydney@...
                                  > > 126 Beach St, Coogee, NSW, Australia 2034
                                  > > Open 7 Days 9.30 - 5.30
                                  > > Also at 386 Latrobe Terrace Geelong Vic
                                  > > mailto:geelong@...
                                  > >
                                  > > -----Original Message-----
                                  > > From: Tsunamisports [mailto:info@...]
                                  > > Sent: Tuesday, 28 August 2001 4:39
                                  > > To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > Subject: was: [ksurf] cabrinha seam tear, rant, F'ING RANT, RANT,
                                  > > RANT!!! (COM, COM, COM)
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Mike, the KITESURFER parabolic 2 series have just gone into full
                                  > production
                                  > > and will be available within the month. I seriously suggest you get to
                                  > take
                                  > > a look at one of these kites. We have had some early prototypes flying
                                  > here
                                  > > for the last 6 months and after being ridden hard by team riders as well
                                  > as
                                  > > being thrashed around in the surf by beginners, they are looking pretty
                                  > much
                                  > > like the day they arrived.
                                  > >
                                  > > The leading edge seams are constructed differently form the other
                                  > mainstream
                                  > > products out there now, as is the material on both the kite body and
                                  > bladder
                                  > > casings.
                                  > >
                                  > > No one can ever promise that there will never be any problems, but from
                                  > what
                                  > > I've experienced so far, these guys are definitely worth consideration.
                                  > >
                                  > > Do I have a vested interest in these comments? Yes definitely! We will
                                  be
                                  > > distributing KITESURFER wings locally as I have been absolutely and
                                  > utterly
                                  > > convinced by the product performance and durability I have experienced
                                  to
                                  > > date. I'm not making this out to be any "silver bullet", and we will
                                  still
                                  > > be offering many of the other fantastic products out there that are all
                                  > > really good in their own way, but if performance AND durability is what
                                  > you
                                  > > want, you need to take a look at these wings.
                                  > >
                                  > > I guess I'll sit back now and mentally prepare for the abuse that's sure
                                  > to
                                  > > follow :).
                                  > >
                                  > > Shaun Pretorius
                                  > > Tsunami Sports
                                  > >
                                  > > www.tsunamisports.co.za
                                  > > info@...
                                  > >
                                  > > Tel: +27 31 2019776
                                  > > Fax:+27 31 2019685
                                  > >
                                  > > -----Original Message-----
                                  > > From: Lemke, Mike [mailto:mike@...]
                                  > > Sent: 28 August 2001 04:55
                                  > > To: 'kitesurf@yahoogroups.com '
                                  > > Subject: RE: [ksurf] cabrinha seam tear, rant, F'ING RANT, RANT, RANT!!!
                                  > >
                                  > > Are the Rhino's really durable? I'm really getting sick and farking
                                  > tired
                                  > > of this shit. Many on this group are pissed about projected vs.
                                  > > flat......I'm pissed about strength of kites and gear. I don't go
                                  > > huge....just small jumps....and I'm super carefull w/ my kites, yet I'm
                                  > > always repairing them. Am I to heavy at 240lbs? Fuck no....If I'm
                                  strong
                                  > > enough to hold on then my kite and gear aught to hang too.
                                  > >
                                  > > Why aren't these things made of real sail material? Why do I need to
                                  make
                                  > > my own bars that are strong? These are not stunt kites.....these are
                                  not
                                  > > windsurf sails.....these are not parachutes.....USE PROPER MATERIALS!
                                  > >
                                  > > I for one am pissed. No more recalls....no more ripped panels.....no
                                  more
                                  > > broken webbing adjusters.....
                                  > >
                                  > > SOMEONE make a kite that lasts a legit year.
                                  > >
                                  > > Mike
                                  > > Las Vegas,NV
                                  > >
                                  > > -----Original Message-----
                                  > > From: iclimbtrees@...
                                  > > To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > Sent: 8/27/01 6:20 PM
                                  > > Subject: [ksurf] cabrinha seam tear, rant
                                  > >
                                  > > Hey there people.
                                  > > I just had a seam blow out on my 12.2 black tip. It was the one
                                  > > running down the back of the second strut from the end. I looked
                                  > > closely at the rest of the struts where the stitching starts and they
                                  > > seemed to be starting to tear as well. Is this common?
                                  > > Another peeve I have with this kite is the folded stitching along the
                                  > > leading edge is starting to fray, the fabric looks like it is pulling
                                  > > apart, I can almost seee the bladder through the fabric. This sucks
                                  > > cuz the kite has only been used like 17 times and only crashed a
                                  > > couple. The implacts were not real slams either.
                                  > > Is there a way of reinforcing the stitching points? Am I pumping
                                  > > the bladders too hard?
                                  > > This really sucks to spend 1500 bucks on a kite to only get 17 uses
                                  > > before repairs have to be made, not including the fucking bladder
                                  > > syndrome with these kites!!!!
                                  > > I dont see these problems on two year old naish and wipika products.
                                  > > disgruntled,
                                  > > mika
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com
                                  > > For Kitesurfers by Kitesurfers
                                  > >
                                  > > http://www.KiteHigh.com
                                  > >
                                  > > Win Board or Cabrinha Kite sweepstakes on now.
                                  > >
                                  > > 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA
                                  > > 808 579 9849
                                  > > Email:support@...
                                  > >
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                                  > >
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                                  > >
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                                  > > For Kitesurfers by Kitesurfers
                                  > >
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                                  > >
                                  > > Win Board or Cabrinha Kite sweepstakes on now.
                                  > >
                                  > > 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA
                                  > > 808 579 9849
                                  > > Email:support@...
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                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
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                                  > > For Kitesurfers by Kitesurfers
                                  > >
                                  > > http://www.KiteHigh.com
                                  > >
                                  > > Win Board or Cabrinha Kite sweepstakes on now.
                                  > >
                                  > > 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA
                                  > > 808 579 9849
                                  > > Email:support@...
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                                  > >
                                  > >
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                                  > > For Kitesurfers by Kitesurfers
                                  > >
                                  > > http://www.KiteHigh.com
                                  > >
                                  > > Win Board or Cabrinha Kite sweepstakes on now.
                                  > >
                                  > > 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA
                                  > > 808 579 9849
                                  > > Email:support@...
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                                  > >
                                  > >
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                                  > > For Kitesurfers by Kitesurfers
                                  > >
                                  > > http://www.KiteHigh.com
                                  > >
                                  > > Win Board or Cabrinha Kite sweepstakes on now.
                                  > >
                                  > > 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA
                                  > > 808 579 9849
                                  > > Email:support@...
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                                  > >
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                                  > > For Kitesurfers by Kitesurfers
                                  > >
                                  > > http://www.KiteHigh.com
                                  > >
                                  > > Win Board or Cabrinha Kite sweepstakes on now.
                                  > >
                                  > > 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA
                                  > > 808 579 9849
                                  > > Email:support@...
                                  > >
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                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
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                                  > For Kitesurfers by Kitesurfers
                                  >
                                  > http://www.KiteHigh.com
                                  >
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                                  >
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                                  >
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                                  >
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                                  >




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                                • Suntrax
                                  EXACTLY what was worrying me!! Brian Wilson Suntrax Tel/fax 027 21 5560044 cell; 0824656696 www.suntrax.co.za ... From: To:
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Sep 1, 2001
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    EXACTLY what was worrying me!!

                                    Brian Wilson
                                    Suntrax
                                    Tel/fax 027 21 5560044
                                    cell; 0824656696
                                    www.suntrax.co.za

                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: <thorpes@...>
                                    To: <kitesurf@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 6:17 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [ksurf] cabrinha seam tear. KITEPOWER RANTS AGAIN, and again,
                                    and again, ...


                                    > --- In kitesurf@y..., "Suntrax" <Suntrax@i...> wrote:
                                    > > Steve
                                    > >..it looks like you are confusing me with Shaun from Tsunami
                                    > > for some reason , if you reread your mails.
                                    >
                                    > I guess all you boere look alike to the auzzies ;-)
                                    >
                                    > Steve T.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com
                                    > For Kitesurfers by Kitesurfers
                                    >
                                    > http://www.KiteHigh.com
                                    >
                                    > Win Board or Cabrinha Kite sweepstakes on now.
                                    >
                                    > 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA
                                    > 808 579 9849
                                    > Email:support@...
                                    >
                                    > <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>
                                    >
                                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
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