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Re: [ksurf] Making 4 Line 2 Line

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  • Bart van Oers
    Hi Jeff, on the North Sails site (www.northkites.com) you can find a press release about a conversion set for it s 4 line to fly them on 2 lines. Perhaps that
    Message 1 of 15 , Aug 1 8:25 AM
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      Hi Jeff,

      on the North Sails site (www.northkites.com) you can find a press release about a conversion set for
      it's 4 line to fly them on 2 lines.
      Perhaps that someone already has seen how this worked...

      regards,

      Bart

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Jeff Quick" <jquick1@...>
      To: <kitesurf@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 4:49 PM
      Subject: [ksurf] Making 4 Line 2 Line


      > Does anyone know if it is possible to make a 4 line inflateable a 2
      > line kite (using a 2 line bridle system with pulleys)?
      >
      > Would be sweet to have a 16.4, 11.8, 8.4, and 6.3 Airblast in 2 line
      > mode with a preset A/R.
      >
      > I am tired of worn out equipment, and trim lines which I barely use
      > anyway. Also, after 2 loops, the kite is so hard to steer, its almost
      > dangerous. 2 Line would fix this problem.
      >
      > Thanks in advance for any info.
      >
      > Jeffro
      >
      >
      > This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com
      > For Kitesurfers by Kitesurfers
      >
      > http://www.KiteHigh.com
      >
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      >
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      >
      >
    • fishersfort@attglobal.net
      Wow, that Ken Winner is one clever dude. I heard about another trick he is using. He put NSI ramped heel pads under his wakeboard bindings. It ramps his heels
      Message 2 of 15 , Aug 1 9:20 AM
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        Wow, that Ken Winner is one clever dude. I heard about another trick
        he is using. He put NSI ramped heel pads under his wakeboard
        bindings. It ramps his heels up for insane edging. I plan to try the
        trick myself.

        Dwight



        --- In kitesurf@y..., "Bart van Oers" <B.J.vanOers@s...> wrote:
        > Hi Jeff,
        >
        > on the North Sails site (www.northkites.com) you can find a press
        release about a conversion set for
        > it's 4 line to fly them on 2 lines.
        > Perhaps that someone already has seen how this worked...
        >
        > regards,
        >
        > Bart
      • Peter Traykovski
        In snowboarding people play around with all sorts of wedges..especially as the boots get stiffer i.e plastic race boots. The boots also have adjustable forward
        Message 3 of 15 , Aug 1 10:50 AM
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          In snowboarding people play around with all sorts of wedges..especially
          as the boots get stiffer i.e plastic race boots. The boots also have
          adjustable forward lean. Something we may want in wake board bindings
          On my snowboard I found I like wedges that push my knees together a bit.
          You could try wedges that both lift your heels and cant them in a bit.
          Remember your toeside performance will suffer!

          fishersfort@... wrote:

          > Wow, that Ken Winner is one clever dude. I heard about another trick
          > he is using. He put NSI ramped heel pads under his wakeboard
          > bindings. It ramps his heels up for insane edging. I plan to try the
          > trick myself.
          >
          > Dwight
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In kitesurf@y..., "Bart van Oers" <B.J.vanOers@s...> wrote:
          >
          >>Hi Jeff,
          >>
          >>on the North Sails site (www.northkites.com) you can find a press
          >>
          > release about a conversion set for
          >
          >>it's 4 line to fly them on 2 lines.
          >>Perhaps that someone already has seen how this worked...
          >>
        • Jeff Quick
          Yes I meant AoA (busy day at work today). Hmm that may work... this sure would be nice. Jeffro ... line ... myself, but ... between the ... the middle ...
          Message 4 of 15 , Aug 1 11:20 AM
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            Yes I meant AoA (busy day at work today).

            Hmm that may work... this sure would be nice.

            Jeffro

            --- In kitesurf@y..., Andre Myburgh <andrem@d...> wrote:
            > > Would be sweet to have a 16.4, 11.8, 8.4, and 6.3 Airblast in 2
            line
            > > mode with a preset A/R.
            > You mean Angle of Attack (AOA), not A/R. I thought about this
            myself, but
            > haven't dared to try it. Wouldn't a long piece bridle line, tied
            between the
            > front and back connection points on the kite, with a few knots in
            the middle
            > of the line for AOA adjustment work? The result would be a Y shaped
            bridle
            > on each tip, and if the line is long enough (or if you have a tip
            spar like
            > the ARC or North kites), it shouldn't pull the connection point
            together.
            > Just guessing here.
            >
            > A
            >
            >
            >
            > >
            > > I am tired of worn out equipment, and trim lines which I barely
            use
            > > anyway. Also, after 2 loops, the kite is so hard to steer,
            > > its almost
            > > dangerous. 2 Line would fix this problem.
            > >
            > > Thanks in advance for any info.
            > >
            > > Jeffro
            > >
            > >
            > > This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com
            > > For Kitesurfers by Kitesurfers
            > >
            > > http://www.KiteHigh.com
            > >
            > > Win Board or Cabrinha Kite sweepstakes on now.
            > >
            > > 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA
            > > 808 579 9849
            > > Email:support@k...
            > >
            > > <<<to unsubscribe send a message to
            > > kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>
            > >
            > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            > >
            > >
          • fernmanus@yahoo.com
            Jeffro, The 16.4 in 2 line mode - NO WAY! The smallest gust would pull you right off your edge. I find that I need the full length of the chicken loop (no
            Message 5 of 15 , Aug 1 5:04 PM
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              Jeffro,

              The 16.4 in 2 line mode - NO WAY! The smallest gust would pull you
              right off your edge. I find that I need the full length of the
              chicken loop (no depower strap) and a short board in order to hold an
              edge and stay upwind during gusts.

              Kenny


              --- In kitesurf@y..., "Jeff Quick" <jquick1@h...> wrote:
              > Yes I meant AoA (busy day at work today).
              >
              > Hmm that may work... this sure would be nice.
              >
              > Jeffro
              >
              > --- In kitesurf@y..., Andre Myburgh <andrem@d...> wrote:
              > > > Would be sweet to have a 16.4, 11.8, 8.4, and 6.3 Airblast in 2
              > line
              > > > mode with a preset A/R.
              > > You mean Angle of Attack (AOA), not A/R. I thought about this
              > myself, but
              > > haven't dared to try it. Wouldn't a long piece bridle line, tied
              > between the
              > > front and back connection points on the kite, with a few knots in
              > the middle
              > > of the line for AOA adjustment work? The result would be a Y
              shaped
              > bridle
              > > on each tip, and if the line is long enough (or if you have a tip
              > spar like
              > > the ARC or North kites), it shouldn't pull the connection point
              > together.
              > > Just guessing here.
              > >
              > > A
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > >
              > > > I am tired of worn out equipment, and trim lines which I barely
              > use
              > > > anyway. Also, after 2 loops, the kite is so hard to steer,
              > > > its almost
              > > > dangerous. 2 Line would fix this problem.
              > > >
              > > > Thanks in advance for any info.
              > > >
              > > > Jeffro
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com
              > > > For Kitesurfers by Kitesurfers
              > > >
              > > > http://www.KiteHigh.com
              > > >
              > > > Win Board or Cabrinha Kite sweepstakes on now.
              > > >
              > > > 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA
              > > > 808 579 9849
              > > > Email:support@k...
              > > >
              > > > <<<to unsubscribe send a message to
              > > > kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>
              > > >
              > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              > > >
              > > >
            • Greg Walsh
              The regression continues with Dwight rediscovering low AR kites and people no longer using trim straps and chicken loops. Next thing you know we ll all be
              Message 6 of 15 , Aug 1 6:14 PM
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                The regression continues with Dwight rediscovering low AR kites and
                people no longer using trim straps and chicken loops. Next thing you
                know we'll all be riding foils and c-quads.
              • Brad Wilson
                I ve done this and it works. You need to attach the main lines to the back line attachment points. Then attach the bridal line to the front line attachment
                Message 7 of 15 , Aug 1 6:39 PM
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                  I've done this and it works.

                  You need to attach the main lines to the back line attachment points.
                  Then attach the bridal line to the front line attachment point on the
                  opposite side of the kite. I think the bridal lines should be pretty
                  long, about 20 ft. or so. So effectively the front lines are cross-
                  bridaled. I use Caution Kites. The kite flew fine. I don't use it
                  like this. I prefer 4 line kites.

                  Regards, Brad.



                  --- In kitesurf@y..., fernmanus@y... wrote:
                  > Jeffro,
                  >
                  > The 16.4 in 2 line mode - NO WAY! The smallest gust would pull you
                  > right off your edge. I find that I need the full length of the
                  > chicken loop (no depower strap) and a short board in order to hold
                  an
                  > edge and stay upwind during gusts.
                  >
                  > Kenny
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In kitesurf@y..., "Jeff Quick" <jquick1@h...> wrote:
                  > > Yes I meant AoA (busy day at work today).
                  > >
                  > > Hmm that may work... this sure would be nice.
                  > >
                  > > Jeffro
                  > >
                  > > --- In kitesurf@y..., Andre Myburgh <andrem@d...> wrote:
                  > > > > Would be sweet to have a 16.4, 11.8, 8.4, and 6.3 Airblast in
                  2
                  > > line
                  > > > > mode with a preset A/R.
                  > > > You mean Angle of Attack (AOA), not A/R. I thought about this
                  > > myself, but
                  > > > haven't dared to try it. Wouldn't a long piece bridle line,
                  tied
                  > > between the
                  > > > front and back connection points on the kite, with a few knots
                  in
                  > > the middle
                  > > > of the line for AOA adjustment work? The result would be a Y
                  > shaped
                  > > bridle
                  > > > on each tip, and if the line is long enough (or if you have a
                  tip
                  > > spar like
                  > > > the ARC or North kites), it shouldn't pull the connection point
                  > > together.
                  > > > Just guessing here.
                  > > >
                  > > > A
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > I am tired of worn out equipment, and trim lines which I
                  barely
                  > > use
                  > > > > anyway. Also, after 2 loops, the kite is so hard to steer,
                  > > > > its almost
                  > > > > dangerous. 2 Line would fix this problem.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Thanks in advance for any info.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Jeffro
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com
                  > > > > For Kitesurfers by Kitesurfers
                  > > > >
                  > > > > http://www.KiteHigh.com
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Win Board or Cabrinha Kite sweepstakes on now.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA
                  > > > > 808 579 9849
                  > > > > Email:support@k...
                  > > > >
                  > > > > <<<to unsubscribe send a message to
                  > > > > kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                  > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                • Tunico Lage
                  ... Damm...I sold my 98 Wipika 8.5 for peanuts...
                  Message 8 of 15 , Aug 1 7:23 PM
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                    At 01:14 02/08/01 +0000, you wrote:
                    >The regression continues with Dwight rediscovering low AR kites and
                    >people no longer using trim straps and chicken loops. Next thing you
                    >know we'll all be riding foils and c-quads.

                    Damm...I sold my 98 Wipika 8.5 for peanuts...
                  • kitemanic@yahoo.co.uk
                    Do you do toeside tricks dwight? cuz wedges under your bindings would make toeside edging even harder... ok lates, DREW ... trick ... the
                    Message 9 of 15 , Aug 2 12:42 AM
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                      Do you do toeside tricks dwight? cuz wedges under your bindings
                      would make toeside edging even harder...
                      ok lates,
                      DREW

                      --- In kitesurf@y..., fishersfort@a... wrote:
                      > Wow, that Ken Winner is one clever dude. I heard about another
                      trick
                      > he is using. He put NSI ramped heel pads under his wakeboard
                      > bindings. It ramps his heels up for insane edging. I plan to try
                      the
                      > trick myself.
                      >
                      > Dwight
                    • Gurpreet Pandher
                      ... middle ... Or why not put a pulley in the V line between the front and back attachment points. This may give you automatic AOA adjustment giving automatic
                      Message 10 of 15 , Aug 2 2:54 AM
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                        > Wouldn't a long piece bridle line, tied between the
                        >front and back connection points on the kite, with a few knots in the
                        middle
                        >of the line for AOA adjustment work? The result would be a Y shaped bridle
                        >on each tip, and if the line is long enough (or if you have a tip spar like
                        >the ARC or North kites), it shouldn't pull the connection point together.

                        Or why not put a pulley in the V line between the front and back attachment
                        points. This may give you automatic AOA adjustment giving automatic gust
                        handling. However it may give automatic power dumping just as you want to
                        power up. The exact position of the front and back attachment points may be
                        critical in getting the balance right. Thought of trying this a long time
                        ago but haven't tried it yet.

                        Simon.
                      • Dwight & Jacky
                        Hey, it takes us average kiters a lot longer to figure it out. If we all lived in Maui, maybe we d catch on quicker and be riding 2 line sooner. Dwight
                        Message 11 of 15 , Aug 2 3:05 AM
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                          Hey, it takes us average kiters a lot longer to figure it out. If we all lived in Maui, maybe we'd
                          catch on quicker and be riding 2 line sooner.

                          Dwight


                          > The regression continues with Dwight rediscovering low AR kites and
                          > people no longer using trim straps and chicken loops. Next thing you
                          > know we'll all be riding foils and c-quads.
                          >
                        • Dwight & Jacky
                          No
                          Message 12 of 15 , Aug 2 3:10 AM
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                            No


                            > Do you do toeside tricks dwight? cuz wedges under your bindings
                            > would make toeside edging even harder...
                            > ok lates,
                            > DREW
                          • Jeff Quick
                            In lighter winds, you need the most effective and efficient kites available. These larger, more efficient kites weren t around back in the day when 2 line was
                            Message 13 of 15 , Aug 2 1:28 PM
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                              In lighter winds, you need the most effective and efficient kites
                              available. These larger, more efficient kites weren't around back in
                              the day when 2 line was still king. Also, it seemed all of the kite
                              manufacturers were making and testing kites IN and FOR big wind
                              areas...and in BIG WIND, its easier to get away with inefficiencies in
                              kite design, since big wind riders don't experience as much apparent
                              wind effects on their kites, as do lighter wind riders.

                              Remember, 4 line ORIGINALLY came out to control gusts for directional
                              boards that couldn't edge as hard as the sparingly used wakeboards.
                              Only later did people start using this 4 line AoA change for boosting
                              bigger airs, mainly via the "flash style" of riding (which I am NOT
                              knocking, its just a different technique). I find that with a
                              wakeboard, you seriously increase your gust control bigtime (via
                              serious edging), and it pretty much renders the chicken loop useless,
                              as long as you have the kite set at the optimal AoA. Since you can
                              edge even harder, you can boost close to OR as big as the directional
                              riders using chicken loops, or so I've seen. Of course alot of that
                              is rider skill too.

                              I live in a light but steady wind area, so I frequently use the 16.4
                              Airblast, though on a wakeboard. I need the 16.4's increased
                              performance for these lighter winds. I practically never use the trim
                              strap (chicken loop), yet it seems to be one of the prime areas of
                              quick wear out. Also multiple spin jumps damn near render the kites
                              incontrollable with so many twists in the lines, and I've come close
                              to serious wipeouts as a result.

                              Thats why I think alot of 4 liners may migrate back to 2 line, since
                              the technology is here for lighter wind (via the bigger more efficient
                              kites). Two line kites = less setup time, less hassle, less lines to
                              get tangled on land or water, and less things to break. A 4 line kite
                              is still a 2 line kite, only with 2 extra lines to change AoA.

                              For now, since there is no 4 line to 2 line conversion kite out, I am
                              staying 4 line, but going to build and use Lou Wainmains bar set up
                              for 4 liners. I'll also preset each kite at what I feel is the
                              optimal AoA for the bar(s). If a gust hits, I'll do what I usually
                              do, and that is edge like hell. If I still get yanked off my edge,
                              then so be it ;-)

                              Stoked,
                              Jeffro

                              --- In kitesurf@y..., "Dwight & Jacky" <fishersfort@a...> wrote:
                              > Hey, it takes us average kiters a lot longer to figure it out. If we
                              all lived in Maui, maybe we'd
                              > catch on quicker and be riding 2 line sooner.
                              >
                              > Dwight
                              >
                              >
                              > > The regression continues with Dwight rediscovering low AR kites
                              and
                              > > people no longer using trim straps and chicken loops. Next thing
                              you
                              > > know we'll all be riding foils and c-quads.
                              > >
                            • Dwight & Jacky
                              I don t see this locally. For me hooked in jumps feel constipated. I have never seen a local jump higher in the chicken loop, and one of our best kiters always
                              Message 14 of 15 , Aug 2 6:52 PM
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                                I don't see this locally. For me hooked in jumps feel constipated. I have never seen a local jump
                                higher in the chicken loop, and one of our best kiters always rides in it and he rides very powered
                                all the time on a directional. My jumps became much higher once I mastered my wakeboard and unhooked
                                jumping.

                                During my testing of monster kites I did have trouble jumping high unhooked. The chicken loop worked
                                better for me. I hope that changes with practice on the monster kites. Maybe this is the difference
                                we see between your kiters and ours. Most of our time is spent on 8.9 kites.

                                Dwight



                                >Since you can
                                > edge even harder, you can boost close to OR as big as the directional
                                > riders using chicken loops, or so I've seen. Of course alot of that
                                > is rider skill too.
                                > Stoked,
                                > Jeffro
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