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Thermals and kitesurfing was Re: Scary Photo!!! - BUNK!!

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  • kitesrfer@aol.com
    I think many of us would agree that getting lofted in a thermal is theorectically possible, after all, thousands of paragliders and hang gliders do this
    Message 1 of 10 , Jul 15, 2001
      I think many of us would agree that getting lofted in a thermal is
      theorectically possible, after all, thousands of paragliders and hang gliders
      do this routinely every week worldwide and have done for decades. Lots of us
      have kites with lifting areas near equivalent to hang gliders and
      paragliders, so what is the real difference in a thermal? Of course smaller
      kites could be just as dangerous in similar thermal conditions. I believe
      the reports of this incident myself. More importantly, if kitesurfers aren't
      aware of the possibility of this happening and the circumstances that may
      cause it, it is almost guarenteed to happen again. Next time possibly
      without the happy ending.

      Repeating what we know and think at this point for those that missed the
      earlier thread on thermals or could do with reminding:

      Thermals are abundant, often violent and extremely powerful in Florida, in
      many other parts of the US and world in general. Desert and arid areas, Cabo
      Verde, parts of Hawaii, Baja, no doubt parts of Oz and many other prime
      kitesurfing destinations have frequent, very strong thermals. When hang
      gliding we look for them aggressively as they can maintain your flight time
      indefinitely as long as you can keep running into them. Hang gliders are
      designed for stable, safe flight for extended periods of time as well as
      dealing with violent thermals, unfortunately kitesurfing kites are not. Any
      of us who have messed up a jump in mid air, stalled the kite and fallen like
      a rock can testify to that.

      Thermals are usually invisible, rising columns or bubbles of warm or hot air
      generally 100 typically to 300 feet in diameter. So you could be lifted in a
      thermal and fall out of it and down suddenly, happens all the time to hang
      gliders. In Florida, the upward lift on hang gliders in thermals ranges
      typically from 200 to in excess of 700 feet per minute (FPM). In arid areas
      thermals in excess of 1000 FPM can
      occur. Now the interesting part, larger kitesurfing kites begin to
      approximate the wing or lifting area of hang gliders. I haven't checked yet,
      but I suspect that my AB 16.4 m exceeds the area of most hang gliders. Now a
      kitesurfing kite won't have the lifting efficiency of a hang glider but I
      suspect it comes close enough under certain circumstances. So what!?

      The point of all this is, that under certain circumstances it is possible and
      perhaps even likely, that kitesurfers could get lifted hundreds of feet in
      thermals. This happened in Oahu in June, 2001 with tons of witnesses
      including the media at a kitesurfing competition. Generally this will be over
      the land as thermal generation over water is normally weak. If you are
      kitesurfing on an offshore wind day, then the risk still applies as the
      thermals will generate over land and blow
      offshore.

      So why isn't this happening all the time? Who knows but the potential for a
      few very serious, likely terminal accidents a year exists. For those of us
      that go in the ocean in onshore winds, don't loiter on the beach with kites
      in the air MAY, theoretically be at low risk of experiencing this. For
      people that launch inland at lakes, rivers, for playing around, maybe even
      kiteskiing (you can get strong thermals in snow), they are at risk. Thermal
      generation is often associated with dark fields,i.e. parking
      lots, large
      sandy areas, rising masses or high ground i.e. hills, mountains or CONDOS OR
      OTHER TALL BUILDINGS (?), clear skies with bright sun, cold fronts with high
      pressure systems. Other likely thermal collectors to stay away from include
      large groups of trees, hot asphalt with cars, crop fields, etc. essentially
      any large and dark area which can trap air prior to the breeze becoming
      strong enough to cause penetration and allow mixing. In short, from pretty
      commonly occurring conditions particularly inland.

      So if you kitesurf inland or near prime thermal generating conditions along
      the ocean, what do you do? To be honest I am not sure, be very careful and
      selective at when to fly at a minimum. Trying to understand your local
      thermal generation characteristics through local hang gliders, paragliders,
      sailplane pilots as fully as possible would be another recommended approach.

      Thermals are always around us, but often at not real strong levels. It is
      the strong ones that you have to watch out for while you are at risk. In a
      small to moderately sized lake or river this could be the entire time you are
      out, including while on the water. I would be particularly careful if you
      kitesurf on a lake in arid, desert-like conditions, say near the Great Salt
      Lake, etc. Say you pop a nice jump near the windward shore and a thermal
      comes along while you are in flight, up you go and where you come down could
      be over land. Also, if you fly smaller kites are you safe? Maybe but I don't
      think so, not in a strong thermal. It may not lift you hundreds of feet but
      30 feet over land is enough to do serious harm. Some kitesurfers have
      reported being lofted on relatively small kites in possible thermals already.

      This sport is very new on a widespread basis. The ways of
      interacting with the weather, e.g., lightening, sudden strong gusts, now
      thermals, are only starting to become known, sometimes in very negative
      ways.

      Fly safe,
      Rick



      -----Original Message-----
      From: mikes1p@... [mailto:mikes1p@...]
      Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 10:16 AM
      To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [ksurf] Re: Scary Photo!!! - BUNK!!


      I wasn't saying it didn't happen, all I was trying to say was the
      photo looks doctored to me.

      I've heard it was true from more than one source. One of the local
      guys here was in Hawaii and heard about it the day it happened.

      > Please don't open up a "Fake" discussion about this SERIOUS
      kitemare!
    • elifuller@yahoo.com
      ... hang gliders ............. Great post Rick. Thanks, Eli
      Message 2 of 10 , Jul 15, 2001
        --- In kitesurf@y..., kitesrfer@a... wrote:
        > I think many of us would agree that getting lofted in a thermal is
        > theorectically possible, after all, thousands of paragliders and
        hang gliders .............

        Great post Rick. Thanks,
        Eli
      • Kitepower
        Steve McGENUINE here, Thanks for the great response Rick (and others). You photo experts/professional sceptics believe what you want! The rest of us will be a
        Message 3 of 10 , Jul 15, 2001
          Steve McGENUINE here,

          Thanks for the great response Rick (and others).
          You photo experts/professional sceptics believe what you want!
          The rest of us will be a lot more aware of the potential dangers of GENUINE
          THERMALS!
          IF you want to ride thermals get into para/hang/gliding, kitesurfing is not
          about deliberately doing this type of "accident" that happened to lucky
          Eric. Not yet anyway!
          I hope one day Eric writes of his experience, in the meantime I think he has
          incredible courage to go back and kitesurf again.
          I posted this photo to bring the reality of how dangerous this sport can be.
          I can generate plenty of publicity without faking something so serious as
          this.
          Please spread the word.
          It is not only big kites, that can do this, I was nearly killed and damaged
          a vertebra from a similar incident with a luffmonster Mosquito Pro KS 5.5M
          foil.
          Cya and
          Goodwinds
          Steve McCormack
          www.kitepower.com.au
          sydney@...
          126 Beach St, Coogee, NSW, Australia 2034
          Open 7 Days 9.30 - 5.30
          Also at 386 Latrobe Terrace Geelong Vic
          geelong@...


          Subject: [ksurf] Thermals and kitesurfing was Re: Scary Photo!!! -
          BUNK!!


          I think many of us would agree that getting lofted in a thermal is
          theorectically possible, after all, thousands of paragliders and hang
          gliders
          do this routinely every week worldwide and have done for decades. Lots of us
          have kites with lifting areas near equivalent to hang gliders and
          paragliders, so what is the real difference in a thermal? Of course smaller
          kites could be just as dangerous in similar thermal conditions. I believe
          the reports of this incident myself. More importantly, if kitesurfers
          aren't
          aware of the possibility of this happening and the circumstances that may
          cause it, it is almost guarenteed to happen again. Next time possibly
          without the happy ending.

          Repeating what we know and think at this point for those that missed the
          earlier thread on thermals or could do with reminding:

          Thermals are abundant, often violent and extremely powerful in Florida, in
          many other parts of the US and world in general. Desert and arid areas,
          Cabo
          Verde, parts of Hawaii, Baja, no doubt parts of Oz and many other prime
          kitesurfing destinations have frequent, very strong thermals. When hang
          gliding we look for them aggressively as they can maintain your flight time
          indefinitely as long as you can keep running into them. Hang gliders are
          designed for stable, safe flight for extended periods of time as well as
          dealing with violent thermals, unfortunately kitesurfing kites are not. Any
          of us who have messed up a jump in mid air, stalled the kite and fallen like
          a rock can testify to that.

          Thermals are usually invisible, rising columns or bubbles of warm or hot air
          generally 100 typically to 300 feet in diameter. So you could be lifted in a
          thermal and fall out of it and down suddenly, happens all the time to hang
          gliders. In Florida, the upward lift on hang gliders in thermals ranges
          typically from 200 to in excess of 700 feet per minute (FPM). In arid areas
          thermals in excess of 1000 FPM can
          occur. Now the interesting part, larger kitesurfing kites begin to
          approximate the wing or lifting area of hang gliders. I haven't checked
          yet,
          but I suspect that my AB 16.4 m exceeds the area of most hang gliders. Now
          a
          kitesurfing kite won't have the lifting efficiency of a hang glider but I
          suspect it comes close enough under certain circumstances. So what!?

          The point of all this is, that under certain circumstances it is possible
          and
          perhaps even likely, that kitesurfers could get lifted hundreds of feet in
          thermals. This happened in Oahu in June, 2001 with tons of witnesses
          including the media at a kitesurfing competition. Generally this will be
          over
          the land as thermal generation over water is normally weak. If you are
          kitesurfing on an offshore wind day, then the risk still applies as the
          thermals will generate over land and blow
          offshore.

          So why isn't this happening all the time? Who knows but the potential for a
          few very serious, likely terminal accidents a year exists. For those of us
          that go in the ocean in onshore winds, don't loiter on the beach with kites
          in the air MAY, theoretically be at low risk of experiencing this. For
          people that launch inland at lakes, rivers, for playing around, maybe even
          kiteskiing (you can get strong thermals in snow), they are at risk. Thermal
          generation is often associated with dark fields,i.e. parking
          lots, large
          sandy areas, rising masses or high ground i.e. hills, mountains or CONDOS OR
          OTHER TALL BUILDINGS (?), clear skies with bright sun, cold fronts with
          high
          pressure systems. Other likely thermal collectors to stay away from include
          large groups of trees, hot asphalt with cars, crop fields, etc. essentially
          any large and dark area which can trap air prior to the breeze becoming
          strong enough to cause penetration and allow mixing. In short, from pretty
          commonly occurring conditions particularly inland.

          So if you kitesurf inland or near prime thermal generating conditions along
          the ocean, what do you do? To be honest I am not sure, be very careful and
          selective at when to fly at a minimum. Trying to understand your local
          thermal generation characteristics through local hang gliders, paragliders,
          sailplane pilots as fully as possible would be another recommended approach.

          Thermals are always around us, but often at not real strong levels. It is
          the strong ones that you have to watch out for while you are at risk. In a
          small to moderately sized lake or river this could be the entire time you
          are
          out, including while on the water. I would be particularly careful if you
          kitesurf on a lake in arid, desert-like conditions, say near the Great Salt
          Lake, etc. Say you pop a nice jump near the windward shore and a thermal
          comes along while you are in flight, up you go and where you come down could
          be over land. Also, if you fly smaller kites are you safe? Maybe but I
          don't
          think so, not in a strong thermal. It may not lift you hundreds of feet but
          30 feet over land is enough to do serious harm. Some kitesurfers have
          reported being lofted on relatively small kites in possible thermals
          already.

          This sport is very new on a widespread basis. The ways of
          interacting with the weather, e.g., lightening, sudden strong gusts, now
          thermals, are only starting to become known, sometimes in very negative
          ways.

          Fly safe,
          Rick



          -----Original Message-----
          From: mikes1p@... [mailto:mikes1p@...]
          Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 10:16 AM
          To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [ksurf] Re: Scary Photo!!! - BUNK!!


          I wasn't saying it didn't happen, all I was trying to say was the
          photo looks doctored to me.

          I've heard it was true from more than one source. One of the local
          guys here was in Hawaii and heard about it the day it happened.

          > Please don't open up a "Fake" discussion about this SERIOUS
          kitemare!



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          For Kitesurfers by Kitesurfers

          http://www.KiteHigh.com

          Win Board or Cabrinha Kite sweepstakes on now.

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        • Greg Walsh
          ... snip ... damaged ... KS 5.5M ... I assume that this is the Mossie death machine you have for sale on your web site. In the interests of public safety I am
          Message 4 of 10 , Jul 15, 2001
            --- In kitesurf@y..., "Kitepower" <kitepower@b...> wrote:

            snip

            > It is not only big kites, that can do this, I was nearly killed and
            damaged
            > a vertebra from a similar incident with a luffmonster Mosquito Pro
            KS 5.5M
            > foil.
            > Cya and
            > Goodwinds
            > Steve McCormack

            I assume that this is the Mossie death machine you have for sale on
            your web site. In the interests of public safety I am prepared to
            lock this evil machine in my kite bag and I'll only charge you $100.
            If you ask nicely I might even give you a similar amount.

            Regards

            Greg
          • Kitepower
            Hi Greg It was for sale, it has been snapped up by a person wanting to use it for buggying and land use. We could put an advert on the site that you are
            Message 5 of 10 , Jul 15, 2001
              Hi Greg

              It was for sale, it has been snapped up by a person wanting to use it for
              buggying and land use.
              We could put an advert on the site that you are willing to only charge $100
              to releive people of their luffmonster Mosquito Pro KS kites! ;-))
              The person who bought mine was given a lot of advice and a couple of
              lessons, I remember repeating to him that this kite or any kite this big
              could kill him.
              It's a sales (non) technique I use frequently now, as more and more couch
              potato types get a brainwave to go kitesurfing thanks to all the hype around
              at the moment.
              I don't think too may other stores do this though, and I'm not looking
              forward to this summer of carnage here in Oz and around the world.
              Cya and
              Goodwinds
              Steve McCormack
              www.kitepower.com.au
              sydney@...
              126 Beach St, Coogee, NSW, Australia 2034
              Open 7 Days 9.30 - 5.30
              Also at 386 Latrobe Terrace Geelong Vic
              geelong@...

              Subject: [ksurf] Re: Scary Photo!!! - GENUINE


              --- In kitesurf@y..., "Kitepower" <kitepower@b...> wrote:

              snip

              > It is not only big kites, that can do this, I was nearly killed and
              damaged
              > a vertebra from a similar incident with a luffmonster Mosquito Pro
              KS 5.5M
              > foil.
              > Cya and
              > Goodwinds
              > Steve McCormack

              I assume that this is the Mossie death machine you have for sale on
              your web site. In the interests of public safety I am prepared to
              lock this evil machine in my kite bag and I'll only charge you $100.
              If you ask nicely I might even give you a similar amount.

              Regards

              Greg


              This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com
              For Kitesurfers by Kitesurfers

              http://www.KiteHigh.com

              Win Board or Cabrinha Kite sweepstakes on now.

              1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA
              808 579 9849
              Email:support@...

              <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>

              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            • Greg Walsh
              Hmmm. The sink rate of my paraglider is about 1 metre per second so it takes about a 2 metre per second thermal for me to get a decent climb. The glider is
              Message 6 of 10 , Jul 15, 2001
                Hmmm. The sink rate of my paraglider is about 1 metre per second so
                it takes about a 2 metre per second thermal for me to get a decent
                climb. The glider is about 24 sq.m projected area.

                If I understand correctly it would take a thermal of 8 m/s for a 12
                square metre wing to comfortably climb in. Thermals of this strength
                are not unusual, although they're not the kind of thing you would
                choose to launch into from you local hill. Add a building or a big
                hill, as seen in the picture, and thermalling with a kite is way
                possible.

                8 m/s is just under 16 knots, but it is a vertical airflow, not
                horizontal.
              • Greg Walsh
                BTW. A common trick when paragliding on the coast is to do a standing launch straight off the beach into the lift band of a nearby dune or cliff. Good fun and
                Message 7 of 10 , Jul 15, 2001
                  BTW. A common trick when paragliding on the coast is to do a standing
                  launch straight off the beach into the lift band of a nearby dune or
                  cliff. Good fun and scores style points over the launch area hogging
                  hang gliders.
                • decay@ihug.co.nz
                  I think this is how Kent @ Kiteworks Auckland managed to fly for more than 30 seconds off a sand dune during the Sky Ride in NZ. He was flying a 10m C-quad and
                  Message 8 of 10 , Jul 15, 2001
                    I think this is how Kent @ Kiteworks Auckland managed to fly for more than 30
                    seconds off a sand dune during the Sky Ride in NZ.

                    He was flying a 10m C-quad and got a huge lift off the wind coming up the dune.

                    If you get a copy of the Sky Ride video about 20sec of the flight were caught
                    on tape.

                    Dave

                    > BTW. A common trick when paragliding on the coast is to do a standing
                    > launch straight off the beach into the lift band of a nearby dune or
                    > cliff. Good fun and scores style points over the launch area hogging
                    > hang gliders.
                    >
                    >
                    > This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com
                    > For Kitesurfers by Kitesurfers
                    >
                    > http://www.KiteHigh.com
                    >
                    > Win Board or Cabrinha Kite sweepstakes on now.
                    >
                    > 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA
                    > 808 579 9849
                    > Email:support@...
                    >
                    > <<<to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>>
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • captain1@iname.com
                    Would I be correct in saying that Eric had to have flown out of the thermal to get down?? IN that case would it not be correct in saying that had he had a
                    Message 9 of 10 , Jul 15, 2001
                      Would I be correct in saying that Eric had to have flown out of the
                      thermal to get down?? IN that case would it not be correct in saying
                      that had he had a small kite and he flew out of the thermal, his
                      descent rate would have been much higher.

                      So then what we have already established is that a smll kite is
                      probably just as prone to being hoisted by a thermal as a big kite
                      (here I am assumng a small to be around 9.5m actual and big say above
                      15.5). However when out of the thermal certainly a big kite would
                      ahve more of a "parachute" type effect and let you down a lot slower
                      then a smaller one.

                      So which is safer?? (Obviously avoiding the thermals altogether is
                      safer!!)


                      --- In kitesurf@y..., "Kitepower" <kitepower@b...> wrote:
                      > Steve McGENUINE here,
                      >
                      > Thanks for the great response Rick (and others).
                      > You photo experts/professional sceptics believe what you want!
                      > The rest of us will be a lot more aware of the potential dangers of
                      GENUINE
                      > THERMALS!
                      > IF you want to ride thermals get into para/hang/gliding,
                      kitesurfing is not
                      > about deliberately doing this type of "accident" that happened to
                      lucky
                      > Eric. Not yet anyway!
                      > I hope one day Eric writes of his experience, in the meantime I
                      think he has
                      > incredible courage to go back and kitesurf again.
                      > I posted this photo to bring the reality of how dangerous this
                      sport can be.
                      > I can generate plenty of publicity without faking something so
                      serious as
                      > this.
                      > Please spread the word.
                      > It is not only big kites, that can do this, I was nearly killed and
                      damaged
                      > a vertebra from a similar incident with a luffmonster Mosquito Pro
                      KS 5.5M
                      > foil.
                      > Cya and
                      > Goodwinds
                      > Steve McCormack
                      > www.kitepower.com.au
                      > sydney@k...
                      > 126 Beach St, Coogee, NSW, Australia 2034
                      > Open 7 Days 9.30 - 5.30
                      > Also at 386 Latrobe Terrace Geelong Vic
                      > geelong@k...
                      >
                      >
                      > Subject: [ksurf] Thermals and kitesurfing was Re: Scary Photo!!! -
                      > BUNK!!
                      >
                      >
                      > I think many of us would agree that getting lofted in a thermal is
                      > theorectically possible, after all, thousands of paragliders and
                      hang
                      > gliders
                      > do this routinely every week worldwide and have done for decades.
                      Lots of us
                      > have kites with lifting areas near equivalent to hang gliders and
                      > paragliders, so what is the real difference in a thermal? Of
                      course smaller
                      > kites could be just as dangerous in similar thermal conditions. I
                      believe
                      > the reports of this incident myself. More importantly, if
                      kitesurfers
                      > aren't
                      > aware of the possibility of this happening and the circumstances
                      that may
                      > cause it, it is almost guarenteed to happen again. Next time
                      possibly
                      > without the happy ending.
                      >
                      > Repeating what we know and think at this point for those that
                      missed the
                      > earlier thread on thermals or could do with reminding:
                      >
                      > Thermals are abundant, often violent and extremely powerful in
                      Florida, in
                      > many other parts of the US and world in general. Desert and arid
                      areas,
                      > Cabo
                      > Verde, parts of Hawaii, Baja, no doubt parts of Oz and many other
                      prime
                      > kitesurfing destinations have frequent, very strong thermals. When
                      hang
                      > gliding we look for them aggressively as they can maintain your
                      flight time
                      > indefinitely as long as you can keep running into them. Hang
                      gliders are
                      > designed for stable, safe flight for extended periods of time as
                      well as
                      > dealing with violent thermals, unfortunately kitesurfing kites are
                      not. Any
                      > of us who have messed up a jump in mid air, stalled the kite and
                      fallen like
                      > a rock can testify to that.
                      >
                      > Thermals are usually invisible, rising columns or bubbles of warm
                      or hot air
                      > generally 100 typically to 300 feet in diameter. So you could be
                      lifted in a
                      > thermal and fall out of it and down suddenly, happens all the time
                      to hang
                      > gliders. In Florida, the upward lift on hang gliders in thermals
                      ranges
                      > typically from 200 to in excess of 700 feet per minute (FPM). In
                      arid areas
                      > thermals in excess of 1000 FPM can
                      > occur. Now the interesting part, larger kitesurfing kites begin to
                      > approximate the wing or lifting area of hang gliders. I haven't
                      checked
                      > yet,
                      > but I suspect that my AB 16.4 m exceeds the area of most hang
                      gliders. Now
                      > a
                      > kitesurfing kite won't have the lifting efficiency of a hang glider
                      but I
                      > suspect it comes close enough under certain circumstances. So
                      what!?
                      >
                      > The point of all this is, that under certain circumstances it is
                      possible
                      > and
                      > perhaps even likely, that kitesurfers could get lifted hundreds of
                      feet in
                      > thermals. This happened in Oahu in June, 2001 with tons of witnesses
                      > including the media at a kitesurfing competition. Generally this
                      will be
                      > over
                      > the land as thermal generation over water is normally weak. If you
                      are
                      > kitesurfing on an offshore wind day, then the risk still applies as
                      the
                      > thermals will generate over land and blow
                      > offshore.
                      >
                      > So why isn't this happening all the time? Who knows but the
                      potential for a
                      > few very serious, likely terminal accidents a year exists. For
                      those of us
                      > that go in the ocean in onshore winds, don't loiter on the beach
                      with kites
                      > in the air MAY, theoretically be at low risk of experiencing this.
                      For
                      > people that launch inland at lakes, rivers, for playing around,
                      maybe even
                      > kiteskiing (you can get strong thermals in snow), they are at
                      risk. Thermal
                      > generation is often associated with dark fields,i.e.
                      parking
                      > lots, large
                      > sandy areas, rising masses or high ground i.e. hills, mountains or
                      CONDOS OR
                      > OTHER TALL BUILDINGS (?), clear skies with bright sun, cold fronts
                      with
                      > high
                      > pressure systems. Other likely thermal collectors to stay away
                      from include
                      > large groups of trees, hot asphalt with cars, crop fields, etc.
                      essentially
                      > any large and dark area which can trap air prior to the breeze
                      becoming
                      > strong enough to cause penetration and allow mixing. In short, from
                      pretty
                      > commonly occurring conditions particularly inland.
                      >
                      > So if you kitesurf inland or near prime thermal generating
                      conditions along
                      > the ocean, what do you do? To be honest I am not sure, be very
                      careful and
                      > selective at when to fly at a minimum. Trying to understand your
                      local
                      > thermal generation characteristics through local hang gliders,
                      paragliders,
                      > sailplane pilots as fully as possible would be another recommended
                      approach.
                      >
                      > Thermals are always around us, but often at not real strong
                      levels. It is
                      > the strong ones that you have to watch out for while you are at
                      risk. In a
                      > small to moderately sized lake or river this could be the entire
                      time you
                      > are
                      > out, including while on the water. I would be particularly careful
                      if you
                      > kitesurf on a lake in arid, desert-like conditions, say near the
                      Great Salt
                      > Lake, etc. Say you pop a nice jump near the windward shore and a
                      thermal
                      > comes along while you are in flight, up you go and where you come
                      down could
                      > be over land. Also, if you fly smaller kites are you safe? Maybe
                      but I
                      > don't
                      > think so, not in a strong thermal. It may not lift you hundreds of
                      feet but
                      > 30 feet over land is enough to do serious harm. Some kitesurfers
                      have
                      > reported being lofted on relatively small kites in possible thermals
                      > already.
                      >
                      > This sport is very new on a widespread basis. The ways of
                      > interacting with the weather, e.g., lightening, sudden strong
                      gusts, now
                      > thermals, are only starting to become known, sometimes in very
                      negative
                      > ways.
                      >
                      > Fly safe,
                      > Rick
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: mikes1p@e... [mailto:mikes1p@e...]
                      > Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 10:16 AM
                      > To: kitesurf@y...
                      > Subject: [ksurf] Re: Scary Photo!!! - BUNK!!
                      >
                      >
                      > I wasn't saying it didn't happen, all I was trying to say was the
                      > photo looks doctored to me.
                      >
                      > I've heard it was true from more than one source. One of the local
                      > guys here was in Hawaii and heard about it the day it happened.
                      >
                      > > Please don't open up a "Fake" discussion about this SERIOUS
                      > kitemare!
                      >
                      >
                      >
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                      >
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                    • yhxaig
                      what photo, where is photo?
                      Message 10 of 10 , Aug 7, 2006
                        what photo, where is photo?
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