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Re: [ksurf] Broken Webbing Adjuster

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  • Mel
    ... I m glad they took my advice. Thanks for the clarification. ... some ... Have you tried moving the plastic piece (as you already do) but feeding the free
    Message 1 of 14 , Apr 1, 2001
      Dwight & Jacky <fishersfort@...> wrote:

      > They use the Superloc buckles now.

      I'm glad they took my advice. Thanks for the clarification.

      > I put a knot in the
      > end of the webbing to pull on and used the plastic piece where it does
      some
      > good.

      Have you tried moving the plastic piece (as you already do) but feeding the
      free end of the main strap through it before tying the knot? That way
      there's less strap dangling when adjusted all the way short. Pull on the
      bottom of the loop to tighten, & pull on the top part to loosen. Ideally
      you'd want the free end of the adjustment strap sewn to a red loop on the
      plastic piece (like FLS now does).

      Mel
    • Dwight & Jacky
      ... the ... I prefer two pull handles, one is red webbing to loosen and the other is the black webbing to tighten. The dangling straps don t bother me. Dwight
      Message 2 of 14 , Apr 1, 2001
        >
        > Have you tried moving the plastic piece (as you already do) but feeding
        the
        > free end of the main strap through it before tying the knot? That way
        > there's less strap dangling when adjusted all the way short. Pull on the
        > bottom of the loop to tighten, & pull on the top part to loosen. Ideally
        > you'd want the free end of the adjustment strap sewn to a red loop on the
        > plastic piece (like FLS now does).
        >
        > Mel


        I prefer two pull handles, one is red webbing to loosen and the other is the
        black webbing to tighten. The dangling straps don't bother me.

        Dwight
      • mike@lemke.com
        Superlock just called me back (11 days later). At any rate, I thought you would find this interesting. Their 1 webbing adjuster has a tensile strength of
        Message 3 of 14 , Apr 10, 2001
          Superlock just called me back (11 days later).

          At any rate, I thought you would find this interesting. Their 1"
          webbing adjuster has a "tensile strength" of 300lbs. Obviously
          inadequate for our use. But lots of people are using them
          successfully, so I'm confused.

          Superlok did not have any figures on safe working load or on breaking
          load (the specifications I am used to seeing). Does anyone know the
          specifics of what "tensile" strength is?

          Thank you......M





          --- In kitesurf@y..., Mel <kitebord@p...> wrote:
          > Lemke, Mike <Mike.Lemke@S...> wrote:
          >
          > > adjustement buckle broke. I use(d) the 1" tubular webbing Mel
          was talking
          > > about and a plastic webbing adjustment buckle made by Superloc....
          >
          > > Did I
          > > just have a deffective plastic one (i.e. any other incidents out
          there
          > like
          > > this?) Do any of you know the safe working load of these 1"
          adjustment
          > > buckles?
          >
          > First, where did it break? Somebody else on this group broke one
          because
          > they fastened the webbing around the thin, weak top rung instead of
          the
          > thick, strong second rung. Other than that I haven't heard of any
          > breakages, so it must have just been defective. I've seen sailboard
          > headcaps with them rigged 1:1, & they have around 500 pounds or
          more STATIC
          > load, & in 15 years in the business I've never seen one of them
          break in
          > normal use, including surf which breaks the mast into 5 pieces,
          leaving the
          > Superloc intact. WindSurfing Hawaii gave me a load spec, but all I
          remember
          > is it was well over 500 pounds (which is all I need with mine
          rigged 2:1).
          > Keep in mind also that I've never even heard of a Naish buckle
          breaking
          > (Superloc knock-off).
          >
          > Mel
        • Rainer Leuschke
          ... Interesting. If it s 300lbs breaking load then I guess forces in the front lines just aren t that dramatic. I ve been using the superloc with sucess.
          Message 4 of 14 , Apr 10, 2001
            On Tue, 10 Apr 2001 mike@... wrote:
            > At any rate, I thought you would find this interesting. Their 1"
            > webbing adjuster has a "tensile strength" of 300lbs. Obviously
            > inadequate for our use. But lots of people are using them
            > successfully, so I'm confused.

            Interesting. If it's 300lbs breaking load then I guess forces in the front
            lines just aren't that dramatic. I've been using the superloc with sucess.
            Anytime I feel like I'm railing real hard (which Mel believes produces
            the highest loads) I also have a good bit of back line tension. Maybe with
            a wakeboard I could go out in stronger winds and rail hard with the back
            lines slack. Think about this: your flying lines might be 500lbs test
            each, but worst case you'll have most of the force in one line and any
            sort of knot will easily decrease your line strength by 20-40%. So your
            line strength is really 400lbs or less. Not a whole lot better than the
            buckle.

            > Superlok did not have any figures on safe working load or on breaking
            > load (the specifications I am used to seeing). Does anyone know the
            > specifics of what "tensile" strength is?

            ...probably used incorrectly for breaking load in this case. 'Tensile
            strength' is material specific and does not change with size or shape and
            therefore has units of lbs/in^2 (psi) or better yet N/mm^2 (MPa).

            I prefer breaking load over safe working load. That way I can decide what
            kind of a safety factor I want to work with.

            R!
          • Mel
            ... Me too. I also know there s more than 300lb load on the front lines, because I tied a single piece of 500lb Lazer Pro between two knots in my front leader
            Message 5 of 14 , Apr 10, 2001
              Rainer Leuschke <rainer@...> wrote:

              > Interesting. If it's 300lbs breaking load then I guess forces in the front
              > lines just aren't that dramatic. I've been using the superloc with sucess.

              Me too. I also know there's more than 300lb load on the front lines,
              because I tied a single piece of 500lb Lazer Pro between two knots in my
              front leader with figure 8s (leaving about 350lb. strength at 30% knot loss)
              & it broke within the first 20 minutes of comfortable cruising.

              > Think about this: your flying lines might be 500lbs test
              > each, but worst case you'll have most of the force in one line and any
              > sort of knot will easily decrease your line strength by 20-40%. So your
              > line strength is really 400lbs or less. Not a whole lot better than the
              > buckle.

              I guess even sewn, sleeved loops in the ends have their strenth reduced by
              the lark's head knot.

              > I prefer breaking load over safe working load. That way I can decide what
              > kind of a safety factor I want to work with.

              If "300lbs" really is the Nexus spec, it must already have a big safety
              factor included. I KNOW the number WindSurfing Hawaii quoted me was MUCH
              higher, & I also know there's a LOT of force on a sailboard headcap. It
              takes ALL my leg strength to downhaul, even with an 8:1 purchase. Ken
              Winner actually measured downhaul force with a gauge a few years ago, & put
              the results in that year's sail test issue of WindSurfing Magazine. I think
              some were around 600lbs. Even rigged 2:1 that would put a STATIC load of
              300lb on the Superloc, & I've never even seen one break when the surf adds
              so much to the load that it snaps a surf-rated mast in 3 places.

              Mel
            • bitme1234@yahoo.com
              I have had the same super lock buckle sinse the end of last summer. It has out lived the webbing, i now use tubular WEBBING, three sets of LEADERS and one
              Message 6 of 14 , Apr 10, 2001
                I have had the same super lock buckle sinse the end of last summer.
                It has out lived the webbing, i now use tubular WEBBING, three sets
                of LEADERS and one LINESET.

                Later,
                Todd

                --- In kitesurf@y..., Mel <kitebord@p...> wrote:
                > Rainer Leuschke <rainer@u...> wrote:
                >
                > > Interesting. If it's 300lbs breaking load then I guess forces in
                the front
                > > lines just aren't that dramatic. I've been using the superloc
                with sucess.
                >
                > Me too. I also know there's more than 300lb load on the front
                lines,
                > because I tied a single piece of 500lb Lazer Pro between two knots
                in my
                > front leader with figure 8s (leaving about 350lb. strength at 30%
                knot loss)
                > & it broke within the first 20 minutes of comfortable cruising.
                >
                > > Think about this: your flying lines might be 500lbs test
                > > each, but worst case you'll have most of the force in one line
                and any
                > > sort of knot will easily decrease your line strength by 20-40%.
                So your
                > > line strength is really 400lbs or less. Not a whole lot better
                than the
                > > buckle.
                >
                > I guess even sewn, sleeved loops in the ends have their strenth
                reduced by
                > the lark's head knot.
                >
                > > I prefer breaking load over safe working load. That way I can
                decide what
                > > kind of a safety factor I want to work with.
                >
                > If "300lbs" really is the Nexus spec, it must already have a big
                safety
                > factor included. I KNOW the number WindSurfing Hawaii quoted me
                was MUCH
                > higher, & I also know there's a LOT of force on a sailboard
                headcap. It
                > takes ALL my leg strength to downhaul, even with an 8:1 purchase.
                Ken
                > Winner actually measured downhaul force with a gauge a few years
                ago, & put
                > the results in that year's sail test issue of WindSurfing
                Magazine. I think
                > some were around 600lbs. Even rigged 2:1 that would put a STATIC
                load of
                > 300lb on the Superloc, & I've never even seen one break when the
                surf adds
                > so much to the load that it snaps a surf-rated mast in 3 places.
                >
                > Mel
              • Lemke, Mike
                I trust your experience Mel. But I have been very happy with the 2 webbing and buckle I replaced it with. I bet it is 4 times stronger when you look at the
                Message 7 of 14 , Apr 11, 2001
                  I trust your experience Mel.

                  But I have been very happy with the 2" webbing and buckle I replaced it
                  with. I bet it is 4 times stronger when you look at the size of the
                  buckle......easier to use also.

                  The size doesn't bother me, so I'm gonna stick with it.....M

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Mel [mailto:kitebord@...]
                  Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 6:15 PM
                  To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [ksurf] Broken Webbing Adjuster


                  Rainer Leuschke <rainer@...> wrote:

                  > Interesting. If it's 300lbs breaking load then I guess forces in the front
                  > lines just aren't that dramatic. I've been using the superloc with sucess.

                  Me too. I also know there's more than 300lb load on the front lines,
                  because I tied a single piece of 500lb Lazer Pro between two knots in my
                  front leader with figure 8s (leaving about 350lb. strength at 30% knot loss)
                  & it broke within the first 20 minutes of comfortable cruising.

                  > Think about this: your flying lines might be 500lbs test
                  > each, but worst case you'll have most of the force in one line and any
                  > sort of knot will easily decrease your line strength by 20-40%. So your
                  > line strength is really 400lbs or less. Not a whole lot better than the
                  > buckle.

                  I guess even sewn, sleeved loops in the ends have their strenth reduced by
                  the lark's head knot.

                  > I prefer breaking load over safe working load. That way I can decide what
                  > kind of a safety factor I want to work with.

                  If "300lbs" really is the Nexus spec, it must already have a big safety
                  factor included. I KNOW the number WindSurfing Hawaii quoted me was MUCH
                  higher, & I also know there's a LOT of force on a sailboard headcap. It
                  takes ALL my leg strength to downhaul, even with an 8:1 purchase. Ken
                  Winner actually measured downhaul force with a gauge a few years ago, & put
                  the results in that year's sail test issue of WindSurfing Magazine. I think
                  some were around 600lbs. Even rigged 2:1 that would put a STATIC load of
                  300lb on the Superloc, & I've never even seen one break when the surf adds
                  so much to the load that it snaps a surf-rated mast in 3 places.

                  Mel


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                • Mel
                  Lemke, Mike To: Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 9:26 AM Subject: RE: [ksurf] Broken Webbing Adjuster ... That s
                  Message 8 of 14 , Apr 12, 2001
                    Lemke, Mike <mike@...>
                    To: <kitesurf@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 9:26 AM
                    Subject: RE: [ksurf] Broken Webbing Adjuster


                    > I trust your experience Mel.
                    >
                    > But I have been very happy with the 2" webbing and buckle I replaced it
                    > with. I bet it is 4 times stronger when you look at the size of the
                    > buckle......easier to use also.
                    >
                    > The size doesn't bother me, so I'm gonna stick with it.....M

                    That's fine. I just want the others to know the 1" works fine, since even
                    that is "too bulky" for some, & I wouldn't want them to avoid getting an ARX
                    or any of the aftermarket systems just because it "only" has a 1" buckle.

                    Mel
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