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[kitesurf] Kite performance - ridgid vs inflatable

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  • Ian Young
    How have people found the comparitive upwind performance of kites with inflatable leading edges such as the Wipika compared with ridgid frame kites? How much
    Message 1 of 16 , Jul 1, 1998
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      How have people found the comparitive upwind performance of kites with
      inflatable leading edges such as the "Wipika" compared with
      ridgid frame kites?

      How much success have people had relaunching inflatable kites from the
      water, particularly if they are two line kites?

      Cheers,
      Ian Young

      WinDesigns Australia:
      9 Oliver St, Scarborough, WA, AUSTRALIA, 6019
      Phone/Fax: +61 8 9245 4657
      Mobile: 0414 716 812
      Email: IanYoung@...
      Webpage: http://www.iinet.net.au/~ianyoung/

      Army:
      Phone: +61 8 9383 0660
      Fax: +61 8 9383 0593


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    • srosso@bunge.com.br
      Inflatable versus rigid leading edge. From talks i have had with kiters and kite buggyers - by far the most efficient is the parafoil type. It does not
      Message 2 of 16 , Jul 1, 1998
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        Inflatable versus rigid leading edge.

        From talks i have had with kiters and kite buggyers - by far the most
        efficient is the parafoil type. It does not relaunch from the water though
        but is VERY efficient. Its a gamble. If that thing falls it soaks up a lot
        of water and it is very difficult getting it to relaunch. For this reason
        they are used principally on grass, snow, sand.

        Actually - Bruno, the wipika designer, has some people racing buggies with
        Wipikas - and they are racing against parafoils etc. He should be able to
        tell us how it compares. From his web page (www.wipika.com) i saw that he
        has a racer that is winning against other types of kites.

        How much success have people had relaunching inflatable kites from the
        water, particularly if they are two line kites?

        I use a wipika, and it does start very well from the water as long as you
        have enough wind, (its actually stable so that even as a beginner i dont
        ever have it fall when i go out) ,if you dont have enough wind, you wont be
        planing anyway so it doesnt really matter, right ? might as well swim back.

        I did have some bad experiences when the wind died, the kite fell in the
        waves and the kite got pushed by waves and i got pulled right behind it. -
        not much you can do about the wind dying.




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      • Laurent Ness - Axel'Air
        ... I do not agree, stefano ! A good rigid kite is much better than a Wipika but does not restart withou the disc brake bar control ! ...
        Message 3 of 16 , Jul 1, 1998
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          >
          >
          > Actually - Bruno, the wipika designer, has some people racing buggies with
          > Wipikas - and they are racing against parafoils etc. He should be able to
          > tell us how it compares. From his web page (www.wipika.com) i saw that he
          > has a racer that is winning against other types of kites.

          I do not agree, stefano ! A good rigid kite is much better than a Wipika but
          does not restart withou the disc brake bar control !

          >
          >
          > How much success have people had relaunching inflatable kites from the
          > water, particularly if they are two line kites?

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          Laurent Ness Axel'Air Champion de France 97
          Specialiste Char, Flysurf, Traction...
          rue St Clair 34280 Carnon Ouest
          tel 04 67 50 62 60 fax 04 67 68 54 25
          e-mail: axelair@...
          et bientot .... axelair.com
          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~




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        • Laurent Ness - Axel'Air
          ... Not as good you need good sailing technique ... It depends the conditions it can go from 95 % to 20 in the waves ...
          Message 4 of 16 , Jul 1, 1998
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            Ian Young wrote:

            > How have people found the comparitive upwind performance of kites with
            > inflatable leading edges such as the "Wipika" compared with
            > ridgid frame kites?

            Not as good you need good sailing technique

            >
            >
            > How much success have people had relaunching inflatable kites from the
            > water, particularly if they are two line kites?

            It depends the conditions it can go from 95 % to 20 in the waves

            >
            >

            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
            Laurent Ness Axel'Air Champion de France 97
            Specialiste Char, Flysurf, Traction...
            rue St Clair 34280 Carnon Ouest
            tel 04 67 50 62 60 fax 04 67 68 54 25
            e-mail: axelair@...
            et bientot .... axelair.com
            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~




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          • Bruno Legaignoux
            ... Hello Ian, Please don t worry but I think this mail list is not for manufacturers and distributors to make their promotion and specially to talk about
            Message 5 of 16 , Jul 1, 1998
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              Ian Young wrote:

              > How have people found the comparitive upwind performance of kites with
              > inflatable leading edges such as the "Wipika" compared with ridgid frame
              > kites?

              Hello Ian,

              Please don't worry but I think this mail list is not for manufacturers and
              distributors to make their promotion and specially to talk about
              competition. You never heard me talking on the net about Kiteski nor
              comparing these different kites and you will never hear about.
              Please let us users discussing together.

              However, for this time, I'll reply your questions:
              Buggy race is actually the ONLY impartial way to compare kites (hopefully
              a kitesurf/kiteski world contest will be organized in September on Maui).
              When I raced in France, 2 and 3 years ago I won around half the national
              races. I made 9th (1st non-english) at the first Euro Parakart in ...
              England, and 7th at the second Euros (that I organized here in Brittany
              with 33 pilots from 8 countries)
              This year one pilot used exclusively Wipika wings and he got VERY good
              results - first, and second of the 3 national races he participated (but
              he didn't participate the french championships because of job/family).
              Why the other pilots don't use Wipika's ? I think, mainly because it is
              DIFFERENT.

              > How much success have people had relaunching inflatable kites from the
              > water, particularly if they are two line kites?

              I heard these questions from sceptical kiteskiers for years. I'm surprised
              you don't yet have sufficient informations about that.
              The reply is that with 15 knots wind or more, a 2 line wing relaunches
              itself WITHOUT YOUR HELP!
              That means that sometimes you fall and you are surprised that your wing is
              relaunching while you are catching and preparing your board!
              We made a test with a small Wipika (1m²) with a 20m SINGLE line between a
              boat and the 2 tip lines : we tossed it at sea 10 times, 10 times it
              relaunched alone from water after around 1 minut.
              >From 10 knots that is easy to relaunch it by actionning the lines/control
              bar.
              Except in waves/shore break the wing relaunch success is 100% by a trained
              pilot.
              With 7/8 knots a good pilot can yet relaunch it.

              I hope I convinced you.
              Best regards.
              Bruno
              ========================================================
              WIPIKA - Dominique & Bruno Legaignoux
              26, rue Eugene Boudin - 29000 QUIMPER - FRANCE
              Phone : (33) 2 9890 8379 Fax : (33) 2 9852 1618
              http://www.wipika.com e-mail : wipika@...
              =========================================================





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            • Terese Roeseler
              ... I disagree Bruno. I think this new ring-thing and makelist.com deal is super, and we should use it in any and every way possible to send get information
              Message 6 of 16 , Jul 2, 1998
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                Bruno wrote:

                >I think this mail list is not for manufacturers and
                >distributors to make their promotion and specially to talk about
                >competition. You never heard me talking on the net about Kiteski nor
                >comparing these different kites and you will never hear about.
                >Please let us users discussing together.


                I disagree Bruno. I think this new ring-thing and makelist.com deal is
                super, and we should use it in any and every way possible to send get
                information to the corners of the world via internet. I only wish my
                website was as good as yours.

                Since there are so few kite surfers and kiteskiers in the world and even
                fewer users who have sailed both Kiteski and Wipika on the water, I think
                the challenge is to inform the interested newcomer of the advantages and
                disadvantages of each system. I have been trying to organize open kiteski
                kitesurf competitions since '95 when we met at the ESPN Extreme games where
                you courageously entered with a Wipika powered sit-ski and unofficially
                placed 4th behind 3 Kiteskis in very light wind.

                I enjoyed flying your Wipika then on the beach, and again, last year when
                Mike Waltze loaned me his for 30 minutes in 20 kts wind on Maui. Both
                times, I enjoyed the automatic launching and the stable flight
                characteristics. However, I share the opinion of your fellow frenchmen and
                very talented kite surfer (and "Champion de France" on buggies), Laurent
                Ness, that a rigid kite performs better upwind. You can pump a rigid kite
                for many times the power to get through a lull, or to make snappy jumps.
                With a soft kite you are left with that mushy feel that wants to pull
                down-wind. ...on the water.

                Perhaps things are different on land, and I admire your excellent history of
                success with Wipika powered buggies.

                If the Maui boys can really pull off the 4th annual
                Kiteski/kiteboard/kitesurf World Championships, this year, the outcome will
                be very interesting. I'm behind it 100%. I agree with you on this one!

                We should all acknowledge, however, that Flash won the World Championship
                Wave-sailing event last year with a 4 line Sky Tiger and a strap surf board.
                He won it with spirit and vigor, so the specifications of his equipment were
                meaningless.

                Best wind!

                Cory



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              • Raul F Argilagos
                Hi! By the way, did anybody find out what the outcome was for the kitesurf portion of the Pistol river wave bash last week? Raul
                Message 7 of 16 , Jul 2, 1998
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                  Hi!
                  By the way, did anybody find out what the outcome was for the
                  kitesurf portion of the Pistol river wave bash last week?
                  Raul

                  _____________________________________________________________________
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                • Ian Young
                  ... Bruno, I m afraid I disagree with you on several counts. Firstly although I distribute KiteSki in Australia I feel that I am very impartial - as you may
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jul 2, 1998
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                    > Please don't worry but I think this mail list is not for manufacturers and
                    > distributors to make their promotion and specially to talk about
                    > competition. You never heard me talking on the net about Kiteski nor
                    > comparing these different kites and you will never hear about.
                    > Please let us users discussing together.

                    Bruno,

                    I'm afraid I disagree with you on several counts. Firstly although I
                    distribute KiteSki in Australia I feel that I am very impartial - as you
                    may recall I also offered to be your agent in Australia but you were the
                    one who declined because I also deal in KiteSki!

                    I believe that this sport has a great future and I am very keen to see
                    it develop through an open discussion of the technical strengths and
                    weaknesses of all options within the sport. As I have never had the
                    opportunity to try a Wipika I was keen to hear from those who have.

                    Although I admire your impressive achievements with Wipika's and
                    buggies, my primary interest (and that of this discussion group) is to
                    learn through sharing our common interest in kite surfing/ skiing.

                    One of my pursuits is to try and make the sport as easy to learn and as
                    attractive as possible to a wide audience. The two key components to
                    achieving this I believe are to minimise the time spent re-launching the
                    kite in deep water and the ability to get back to the point on the beach
                    from where you started - hence my questions.

                    I hope I do not offend you, but I am still keen to hear the opinions of
                    others in this group.

                    Cheers,
                    Ian

                    WinDesigns Australia:
                    9 Oliver St, Scarborough, WA, AUSTRALIA, 6019
                    Phone/Fax: +61 8 9245 4657
                    Mobile: 0414 716 812
                    Email: IanYoung@...
                    Webpage: http://www.iinet.net.au/~ianyoung/


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                  • Bruno Legaignoux
                    ... OK, I think the Mail Manager and subscribers have to decide. Please guys, tell what you think. Personally it is not my idea of the Internet. People which
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jul 2, 1998
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                      Terese Roeseler wrote:

                      > Bruno wrote:

                      > >I think this mail list is not for manufacturers and
                      > >distributors to make their promotion and specially to talk about
                      > >competition.
                      >
                      > I disagree Bruno. I think this new ring-thing and makelist.com deal is
                      > super, and we should use it in any and every way possible to send get
                      > information to the corners of the world via internet.

                      OK, I think the Mail Manager and subscribers have to decide. Please
                      guys, tell
                      what you think.
                      Personally it is not my idea of the Internet. People which want
                      information
                      about my products can visit my site. They are free to go or not.
                      I don't want to worry so, promised, this is my last reply about these
                      kinds of
                      things.

                      > I have been trying to organize open kiteski
                      > kitesurf competitions since '95 when we met at the ESPN Extreme games where
                      > you courageously entered with a Wipika powered sit-ski and unofficially
                      > placed 4th behind 3 Kiteskis in very light wind.

                      Old memory, isn't it ! Sure that the rule which forbade floating
                      boards/boats
                      didn't give me the possibility to really compete (not more than 5 liters
                      or
                      something else)
                      Anyhow, this race allowed my first visit of the USA and I made it almost
                      freely
                      thanks to the price money. Cool!
                      As I didn't want to ski (and was not trained), I designed and built a
                      seat-ski 3
                      weeks before coming.
                      Yeah, really a good memory! Thanks for your invitation and welcome.

                      > With a soft kite you are left with that mushy feel that wants to pull
                      > down-wind. ...on the water.

                      Please don't say these kind of things now just from the few experiences
                      you had.
                      Races will give the answer.
                      If we compare paragliders and hang-gliders which are very similar to
                      soft kites
                      and rigid spar kites: the difference is smaller and smaller between
                      them, and
                      even when the difference was large, paragliders had a lot more success
                      than
                      hang-gliders. It doesn't need one quality to make a good product but as
                      many
                      qualities as possible.

                      > We should all acknowledge, however, that Flash won the World Championship
                      > Wave-sailing event last year with a 4 line Sky Tiger and a strap surf board.
                      > He won it with spirit and vigor, so the specifications of his equipment were
                      > meaningless.

                      Now he only uses Wipika wings, as Mike Waltze, Sierra Emori, Rush Randle
                      and 95%
                      of the Hawaiian boys. I met him in May at Maui. He stays on the same
                      spot for 2
                      hours making tricks and jumps on the waves then going upwind. The jumps
                      he makes
                      are unbelievable (I will not tell the height because nobody will believe
                      me!)
                      We are more and more numerous going upwind and I feel the progresses we
                      have to
                      make are more on the boards than on the kites.
                      It is easy to explain why: when I use a parakart (buggy) or a dinghy or
                      a trifoiler or any other boat with a good hull and a good centerboard, I
                      go upwind just like with any classic dinghy (around 45° on each side of
                      the wind - I dinghy raced for 10 years).
                      However, the usual Wipika wings are a basic model, very stable and easy
                      to fly
                      because 99% of the users are entering the sport. Twelve years ago we
                      made high
                      aspect ratio Wipika type wings and we'll make new ones when the market
                      will ask
                      for them.

                      Best regards
                      Bruno

                      ========================================================
                      WIPIKA - Dominique & Bruno Legaignoux
                      26, rue Eugene Boudin - 29000 QUIMPER - FRANCE
                      Phone : (33) 2 9890 8379 Fax : (33) 2 9852 1618
                      http://www.wipika.com e-mail : wipika@...
                      =========================================================




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                    • Cory Roeseler
                      ... You are right. I should get more time on the water with a Wipika wing. Perhaps after the competition on Maui. I was expanding on comments made by Mr.
                      Message 10 of 16 , Jul 2, 1998
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                        Bruno wrote:
                        >Please don't say these kind of things now just from the few experiences
                        >you had.

                        You are right. I should get more time on the water with a Wipika wing.
                        Perhaps after the competition on Maui. I was expanding on comments made by
                        Mr. Ness, the star of your instruction video, who responded to the question
                        of rigid kite vs inflatable by saying the Wipika is:

                        "Not as good you need good sailing technique"

                        Bruno wrote:
                        >Races will give the answer.

                        I agree 100%.

                        Bruno wrote:
                        >It doesn't need one quality to make a good product but as
                        >many
                        >qualities as possible.


                        Yes!
                        >
                        >> We should all acknowledge, however, that Flash won the World Championship
                        >> Wave-sailing event last year with a 4 line Sky Tiger and a strap surf
                        board.
                        >> He won it with spirit and vigor, so the specifications of his equipment
                        were
                        >> meaningless.


                        The jumps
                        >he makes
                        >are unbelievable (I will not tell the height because nobody will believe
                        >me!)

                        I believe you! Aren't kites great?

                        >We are more and more numerous going upwind and I feel the progresses we
                        >have to
                        >make are more on the boards than on the kites.

                        Yes, let's invite the board builders to participate in this discussion.

                        Bruno, I hope you are not offended by the points I make. I enjoy a healthy
                        debate, and I only engage with those who have earned my respect. You have
                        an excellent product and a very impressive list of achievements. Keep up
                        the good work and keep the dialogue open.

                        Warmest regards,

                        Cory



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                      • Laurent Ness - Axel'Air
                        Hello everybody, I think I have to intoduce myself also ! I manage my flysurf kite-shop down south of France. I began flysurfing completely on my own with
                        Message 11 of 16 , Jul 3, 1998
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                          Hello everybody,

                          I think I have to intoduce myself also !
                          I manage my flysurf kite-shop down south of France.
                          I began flysurfing completely on my own with large delta kites 6 years ago going
                          down wind.
                          Saw an article in american kite a few years ago and bought the kiteski package.
                          I found it too difficult in my wind (too gusty or too light ) and gave up ! I
                          used a lot the kiteski mono-board with the deltas.
                          Won the 97 french buggy championship and made second at the euro championship.

                          I work with Raphael Salles (windsurf champion) on developping special flysurf
                          boards since 96.
                          3 models available.
                          I sell wipika. Maybe the best french retailer. Am I wrong Bruno ?

                          If you want to put a face on this lines, have a look at the wipika kite.

                          To Ian
                          One of my pursuits is to try and make the sport as easy to learn and as

                          > attractive as possible to a wide audience. The two key components to
                          > achieving this I believe are to minimise the time spent re-launching the
                          > kite in deep water and the ability to get back to the point on the beach
                          > from where you started - hence my questions.

                          Maybe best to send me an e-mail on my private -mail so we talk about all
                          that..--
                          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                          Laurent Ness Axel'Air Champion de France 97
                          Specialiste Char, Flysurf, Traction...
                          rue St Clair 34280 Carnon Ouest
                          tel 04 67 50 62 60 fax 04 67 68 54 25
                          e-mail: axelair@...
                          et bientot .... axelair.com
                          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~




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                        • Laurent Ness - Axel'Air
                          ... PLease let me know, I will believe you ! ... -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Laurent Ness Axel Air Champion de France
                          Message 12 of 16 , Jul 3, 1998
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                            > The jumps
                            > >he makes
                            > >are unbelievable (I will not tell the height because nobody will believe
                            > >me!)

                            PLease let me know, I will believe you !

                            > Laurent



                            --
                            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                            Laurent Ness Axel'Air Champion de France 97
                            Specialiste Char, Flysurf, Traction...
                            rue St Clair 34280 Carnon Ouest
                            tel 04 67 50 62 60 fax 04 67 68 54 25
                            e-mail: axelair@...
                            et bientot .... axelair.com
                            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~




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                          • Cory Roeseler
                            Laurent, Tell me about your jibe footwork. I noticed in the Wipika video that (in flat water) you walk through the jibe like a windsurfer. Is this the
                            Message 13 of 16 , Jul 3, 1998
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                              Laurent,

                              Tell me about your jibe footwork. I noticed in the Wipika video that (in
                              flat water) you "walk" through the jibe like a windsurfer. Is this the
                              technique that you teach to new flysurfers?

                              Cory


                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: Laurent Ness - Axel'Air <axelair@...>
                              To: kitesurf@... <kitesurf@...>
                              Date: Friday, July 03, 1998 1:31 AM
                              Subject: Re: [kitesurf] Kite performance - ridgid vs inflatable


                              >Hello everybody,
                              >
                              >I think I have to intoduce myself also !
                              >I manage my flysurf kite-shop down south of France.
                              >I began flysurfing completely on my own with large delta kites 6 years ago
                              going
                              >down wind.
                              >Saw an article in american kite a few years ago and bought the kiteski
                              package.
                              >I found it too difficult in my wind (too gusty or too light ) and gave up !
                              I
                              >used a lot the kiteski mono-board with the deltas.
                              >Won the 97 french buggy championship and made second at the euro
                              championship.
                              >
                              >I work with Raphael Salles (windsurf champion) on developping special
                              flysurf
                              >boards since 96.
                              >3 models available.
                              >I sell wipika. Maybe the best french retailer. Am I wrong Bruno ?
                              >
                              >If you want to put a face on this lines, have a look at the wipika kite.
                              >
                              >To Ian
                              >One of my pursuits is to try and make the sport as easy to learn and as
                              >
                              >> attractive as possible to a wide audience. The two key components to
                              >> achieving this I believe are to minimise the time spent re-launching the
                              >> kite in deep water and the ability to get back to the point on the beach
                              >> from where you started - hence my questions.
                              >
                              >Maybe best to send me an e-mail on my private -mail so we talk about all
                              >that..--
                              >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                              > Laurent Ness Axel'Air Champion de France 97
                              > Specialiste Char, Flysurf, Traction...
                              > rue St Clair 34280 Carnon Ouest
                              > tel 04 67 50 62 60 fax 04 67 68 54 25
                              > e-mail: axelair@...
                              > et bientot .... axelair.com
                              >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
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                            • Rolf V. Oestergaard
                              Hi, Don t forget to support the new web index NewHoo at www.newhoo.com with comments and sugestions. They now have a growing kitesailing subject under sports.
                              Message 14 of 16 , Jul 3, 1998
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                                Hi,

                                Don't forget to support the new web index NewHoo at www.newhoo.com with
                                comments and sugestions. They now have a growing kitesailing subject under
                                sports.

                                Have fun,

                                -=-=-
                                Rolf V. Østergaard, Stockholmsgade 21.2.th, DK-2100 Kbh. Ø, Denmark
                                mailto:rolf@... http://www.godset.dk/kiteski Tel: +45 3525 1330




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                              • Laurent Ness - Axel'Air
                                ... First you take the back footstrap out, second you push on your toesThen you jibe and when you are backside you can make a small jump or walk. Either
                                Message 15 of 16 , Jul 3, 1998
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                                  Cory Roeseler wrote:

                                  > Laurent,
                                  >
                                  > Tell me about your jibe footwork. I noticed in the Wipika video that (in
                                  > flat water) you "walk" through the jibe like a windsurfer. Is this the
                                  > technique that you teach to new flysurfers?
                                  >
                                  > Cory
                                  >
                                  > ---

                                  First you take the back footstrap out, second you push on your toesThen you jibe
                                  and when you are backside you can make a small jump or walk. Either technique
                                  works.
                                  ~~~~~~~~
                                  Laurent
                                  Today 20 knots but I go for lessons can't sail too much
                                  myself~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~




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                                • drpearce@bigpond.com
                                  I started off using action foils, and i found that they were very hard to land in the water even when you do eat shit. I fyou have good control when you go
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Nov 3, 2000
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                                    I started off using action foils, and i found that they were very
                                    hard to land in the water even when you do eat shit. I fyou have
                                    good control when you go down, they seem to sit up there and follow
                                    you. To right though when they hit the water, hard to get up, unless
                                    you actually act quick and no waves present. I now fly cquads and
                                    they are great, water relaunching is not easy. Once again, if it
                                    goes straight in top or bottom pretty easy. But i still find through
                                    reading and watching, not many kites are easyto relaunch from water,
                                    actually none are. Until we get some science in realuanching with a
                                    bitton, we shall just have to fly much more efficient, and dont
                                    forget everyone eats shit at some time.....












                                    --- In kitesurf@egroups.com, Ian Young <IanYoung@i...> wrote:
                                    > How have people found the comparitive upwind performance of kites
                                    with
                                    > inflatable leading edges such as the "Wipika" compared with
                                    > ridgid frame kites?
                                    >
                                    > How much success have people had relaunching inflatable kites from
                                    the
                                    > water, particularly if they are two line kites?
                                    >
                                    > Cheers,
                                    > Ian Young
                                    >
                                    > WinDesigns Australia:
                                    > 9 Oliver St, Scarborough, WA, AUSTRALIA, 6019
                                    > Phone/Fax: +61 8 9245 4657
                                    > Mobile: 0414 716 812
                                    > Email: IanYoung@i...
                                    > Webpage: http://www.iinet.net.au/~ianyoung/
                                    >
                                    > Army:
                                    > Phone: +61 8 9383 0660
                                    > Fax: +61 8 9383 0593
                                    >
                                    >
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