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[ksurf] Re: Have you ever been to Ho'okipa?????!!!!!!!!

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  • Robert Pratt
    Like I asked nicely before....Have you ever been to Ho okipa? NO because up till now I didn t know who s permission I needed. So what do you say can I? HUH?
    Message 1 of 8 , Dec 22, 2000
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      Like I asked nicely before....Have you ever been to Ho'okipa?

      NO because up till now I didn't know who's permission I needed.
      So what do you say can I? HUH? Pretty please?




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    • KiteBoard@aol.com
      I think I d take that risk also, since my understanding is that you re okay as long as your kites are under 100 altitude (& even over 100 was allowed if
      Message 2 of 8 , Dec 26, 2000
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        I think I'd take that risk also, since my understanding is that you're okay
        as long as your kites are under 100' altitude (& even over 100' was allowed
        if under 5 pounds). There have been some recent posts about kite weight, & I
        don't remember the numbers, but it wouldn't even matter with 30m lines (which
        give an altitude of 95' at 75 degrees hovering overhead). I still think it's
        a good idea to stay out of the "no fly" zone, I just don't think they have
        the right to ban you based on THAT regulation.

        Mel

        In a message dated 12/26/00 11:02:11 AM Pacific Standard Time,
        vernw@... writes:

        << When we met with FAA officials, it was not a friendly cup of coffee.
        We were packing a kite surfing lawyer well versed in federal law. The
        meeting ended with the FBI threatening to meet any kitesurfer on
        shore
        to examine and weigh their equipment and make an arrest if it was an
        ounce over the ruled weight. (Read federal Law concerning Balloons
        and
        kites within a five mile radius of air traffic control towers)
        And us saying, "we will take that risk." >>
      • Robby Balona
        Shit Guys Come to South Africa.. we have lots of beaches, Lots of wind ...and plenty of guns to help sort out any water rage. Come to South Africa instead !
        Message 3 of 8 , Dec 26, 2000
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          Shit Guys

          Come to South Africa.. we have lots of beaches, Lots of wind ...and plenty
          of guns to help sort out any water rage.

          Come to South Africa instead !



          -----Original Message-----
          From: KiteBoard@... [mailto:KiteBoard@...]
          Sent: 27 December 2000 04:48
          To: kitesurf@egroups.com
          Subject: Re: [ksurf] Re: Have you ever been to Ho'okipa?????!!!!!!!!


          I think I'd take that risk also, since my understanding is that you're okay
          as long as your kites are under 100' altitude (& even over 100' was allowed
          if under 5 pounds). There have been some recent posts about kite weight, &
          I
          don't remember the numbers, but it wouldn't even matter with 30m lines
          (which
          give an altitude of 95' at 75 degrees hovering overhead). I still think
          it's
          a good idea to stay out of the "no fly" zone, I just don't think they have
          the right to ban you based on THAT regulation.

          Mel

          In a message dated 12/26/00 11:02:11 AM Pacific Standard Time,
          vernw@... writes:

          << When we met with FAA officials, it was not a friendly cup of coffee.
          We were packing a kite surfing lawyer well versed in federal law. The
          meeting ended with the FBI threatening to meet any kitesurfer on
          shore
          to examine and weigh their equipment and make an arrest if it was an
          ounce over the ruled weight. (Read federal Law concerning Balloons
          and
          kites within a five mile radius of air traffic control towers)
          And us saying, "we will take that risk." >>

          <<< to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com >>>


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Dan
          boy you would have some sweet air time if you caught onto the front of a jet wouldn t ya Dan ... From: To: Sent:
          Message 4 of 8 , Dec 26, 2000
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            boy you would have some sweet air time if you caught onto the front of a jet
            wouldn't ya

            Dan


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: <KiteBoard@...>
            To: <kitesurf@egroups.com>
            Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2000 9:48 PM
            Subject: Re: [ksurf] Re: Have you ever been to Ho'okipa?????!!!!!!!!


            > I think I'd take that risk also, since my understanding is that you're
            okay
            > as long as your kites are under 100' altitude (& even over 100' was
            allowed
            > if under 5 pounds). There have been some recent posts about kite weight,
            & I
            > don't remember the numbers, but it wouldn't even matter with 30m lines
            (which
            > give an altitude of 95' at 75 degrees hovering overhead). I still think
            it's
            > a good idea to stay out of the "no fly" zone, I just don't think they have
            > the right to ban you based on THAT regulation.
            >
            > Mel
            >
            > In a message dated 12/26/00 11:02:11 AM Pacific Standard Time,
            > vernw@... writes:
            >
            > << When we met with FAA officials, it was not a friendly cup of coffee.
            > We were packing a kite surfing lawyer well versed in federal law. The
            > meeting ended with the FBI threatening to meet any kitesurfer on
            > shore
            > to examine and weigh their equipment and make an arrest if it was an
            > ounce over the ruled weight. (Read federal Law concerning Balloons
            > and
            > kites within a five mile radius of air traffic control towers)
            > And us saying, "we will take that risk." >>
            >
            > <<< to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com >>>
            >
          • Tsunami Sports
            Hey Robby, Don t let the cat out of the bag!!! Just now our beaches will also look like Ho okipa, and then we will have to run over the odd windsurfer every
            Message 5 of 8 , Dec 27, 2000
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              Hey Robby,

              Don't let the cat out of the bag!!! Just now our beaches will also look like
              Ho'okipa, and then we will have to run over the odd windsurfer every now and
              again :)

              Shaun Pretorius
              Tsunami Sports

              Tel: +27 31 2019776
              Fax: +27 31 2019685
              www.tsunamisports.co.za


              -----Original Message-----
              From: Robby Balona [mailto:robby@...]
              Sent: 27 December 2000 08:16
              To: 'kitesurf@egroups.com'
              Subject: RE: [ksurf] Re: Have you ever been to Ho'okipa?????!!!!!!!!

              Shit Guys

              Come to South Africa.. we have lots of beaches, Lots of wind ...and plenty
              of guns to help sort out any water rage.

              Come to South Africa instead !



              -----Original Message-----
              From: KiteBoard@... [mailto:KiteBoard@...]
              Sent: 27 December 2000 04:48
              To: kitesurf@egroups.com
              Subject: Re: [ksurf] Re: Have you ever been to Ho'okipa?????!!!!!!!!


              I think I'd take that risk also, since my understanding is that you're okay
              as long as your kites are under 100' altitude (& even over 100' was allowed
              if under 5 pounds). There have been some recent posts about kite weight, &
              I
              don't remember the numbers, but it wouldn't even matter with 30m lines
              (which
              give an altitude of 95' at 75 degrees hovering overhead). I still think
              it's
              a good idea to stay out of the "no fly" zone, I just don't think they have
              the right to ban you based on THAT regulation.

              Mel

              In a message dated 12/26/00 11:02:11 AM Pacific Standard Time,
              vernw@... writes:

              << When we met with FAA officials, it was not a friendly cup of coffee.
              We were packing a kite surfing lawyer well versed in federal law. The
              meeting ended with the FBI threatening to meet any kitesurfer on
              shore
              to examine and weigh their equipment and make an arrest if it was an
              ounce over the ruled weight. (Read federal Law concerning Balloons
              and
              kites within a five mile radius of air traffic control towers)
              And us saying, "we will take that risk." >>

              <<< to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com >>>


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


              <<< to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com >>>
            • Robby Balona
              Hey Shaun Merry Xmas to you and yours. Windsurfer ...! whats that (hee hee!)Ah the planks with kite ! ... From: Tsunami Sports
              Message 6 of 8 , Dec 27, 2000
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                Hey Shaun

                Merry Xmas to you and yours.
                Windsurfer ...! whats that (hee hee!)Ah the planks with kite !

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Tsunami Sports [mailto:info@...]
                Sent: 27 December 2000 10:50
                To: kitesurf@egroups.com
                Subject: RE: [ksurf] Re: Have you ever been to Ho'okipa?????!!!!!!!!


                Hey Robby,

                Don't let the cat out of the bag!!! Just now our beaches will also look like
                Ho'okipa, and then we will have to run over the odd windsurfer every now and
                again :)

                Shaun Pretorius
                Tsunami Sports

                Tel: +27 31 2019776
                Fax: +27 31 2019685
                www.tsunamisports.co.za


                -----Original Message-----
                From: Robby Balona [mailto:robby@...]
                Sent: 27 December 2000 08:16
                To: 'kitesurf@egroups.com'
                Subject: RE: [ksurf] Re: Have you ever been to Ho'okipa?????!!!!!!!!

                Shit Guys

                Come to South Africa.. we have lots of beaches, Lots of wind ...and plenty
                of guns to help sort out any water rage.

                Come to South Africa instead !



                -----Original Message-----
                From: KiteBoard@... [mailto:KiteBoard@...]
                Sent: 27 December 2000 04:48
                To: kitesurf@egroups.com
                Subject: Re: [ksurf] Re: Have you ever been to Ho'okipa?????!!!!!!!!


                I think I'd take that risk also, since my understanding is that you're okay
                as long as your kites are under 100' altitude (& even over 100' was allowed
                if under 5 pounds). There have been some recent posts about kite weight, &
                I
                don't remember the numbers, but it wouldn't even matter with 30m lines
                (which
                give an altitude of 95' at 75 degrees hovering overhead). I still think
                it's
                a good idea to stay out of the "no fly" zone, I just don't think they have
                the right to ban you based on THAT regulation.

                Mel

                In a message dated 12/26/00 11:02:11 AM Pacific Standard Time,
                vernw@... writes:

                << When we met with FAA officials, it was not a friendly cup of coffee.
                We were packing a kite surfing lawyer well versed in federal law. The
                meeting ended with the FBI threatening to meet any kitesurfer on
                shore
                to examine and weigh their equipment and make an arrest if it was an
                ounce over the ruled weight. (Read federal Law concerning Balloons
                and
                kites within a five mile radius of air traffic control towers)
                And us saying, "we will take that risk." >>

                <<< to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com >>>


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


                <<< to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com >>>


                <<< to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com >>>


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Robert Pratt
                Eli, I do get it, no I haven t been to Ho okipa. But I ve surfed and windsurfed all over the mainland. The local surfers in Oxnard have some pretty ugly
                Message 7 of 8 , Dec 27, 2000
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                  Eli,
                  I do get it, no I haven't been to Ho'okipa. But I've surfed and windsurfed all over the mainland. The local surfers in Oxnard have some pretty ugly localism. I show respect to locals who deserve it, I avoid crowded beaches and wouldn't sail, kite or surf at Ho'pokipa I would find a less crowded beach (even if it the conditions were lesser quality).
                  The objections I raise are ;
                  #1 the windsurfer attacked Flash, I don't care what the offense was, this is no less than vigalanty justice. Who appointed this person judge, jury and executioner? Everyone should condemn this action. I wonder what the FBI would have said about the incident had they been at the beach.
                  #2 Who decideds who gets to sail/surf/kite at a certain beach? How did this evolve? How is that information disceminated? To say "I get to surf here and you don't because I live around here " is absurd.
                  It sounds like the rules in Hawaii have some common sense, ie.. small place poor access but also have some localism (White Americans?).
                  Sorry for the rant but its -5' and a foot of snow's on the ground. I only wish I were in Hawaii or Antigua.
                  Happy new year,
                  bob
                • Mike Richards
                  Robert, On Maui windsurfing/sailing spots: Localism is an important part of the culture, it sucks but it is true. The water is intimidating at some surf spots,
                  Message 8 of 8 , Jan 1, 2001
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                    Robert,

                    On Maui windsurfing/sailing spots: Localism is an important part of the
                    culture, it sucks but it is true.

                    The water is intimidating at some surf spots, but even more intimidating is
                    some of the local attitude, especially if you are not ripping. This seems
                    asinine, but the fact is that the surf spots are small, and the pecking
                    order does help reduce the crowds to a reasonable level and give people
                    something to attain over time. The resources there are a limited commodity,
                    and in a way, they are "earned" over time as skill and friendships grow. It
                    seems insane, but in a way, it is a sensible way of allocating the limited
                    resources in a way that makes it so whomever works hard enough, has the
                    skill and is strong enough gets to use the resources.

                    There is some insanity to this way of doing things, Flash getting hit is a
                    good example. I had a very bad experience when I decided to tell Laird
                    Hamilton to SLOW DOWN in the SecondWind/NeilPride parking lot. After a
                    while you get tired of parties that are shut down by fighting Samoans, and
                    even though I windsurfed at Hookipa regularly, I never had enough courage to
                    walk to the north end of the park, or surf uppers.

                    In some way, this was sensible though. I always wanted to surf at Hookipa,
                    and when I surfed other places, a lot of my drive was to get good enough so
                    that I felt comfortable paddling out at uppers, but at the same time my fear
                    of locals kept this kook from paddling out at that break and taking up space
                    where better surfers wanted to surf.
                    ======================================================================
                    Kitesurfing, like windsurfing causes a real upset in this natural pecking
                    order. Windsurfers, with no experience in the waves can easily make it out
                    and get on to mast high waves. This is something that would be impossible
                    for a beginning surfer. My roommate in Hawaii could barely jibe, but he
                    regularly windsurfed in mast high surf, and got in EVERYONE'S way! Once you
                    give a windsurfer the power of the wind, that natural barrier of paddling
                    out into big surf is gone, and any fool can get out through the lineup and
                    cause trouble.

                    Kitesurfing is the same. Someone with very little time in the water, and no
                    experience in the waves (say a guy from somewhere like Michigan) could
                    launch a kite at Hookipa. Use the kite to pull himself out through the nasty
                    shore break (that stops a lot of windsurfers) and instantly be a HUGE hazard
                    in the middle of Hookipa. So all of a sudden, a guy on a kiteboard appears
                    in a place that would have been inaccessible to him on a windsurfer or
                    surfboard!

                    Where the natural conditions limited the windsurfers and surfers getting
                    out, the kite makes it much easier to get out into the water, so that anyone
                    with some kiting experience can end up in the surf at Hookipa! Obviously,
                    some sort of limiting mechanism needs to be put in place to keep this from
                    happening.

                    Over time the Kitesurfing growing pains will subside, and Kitesurfing will
                    find it's place in the natural order of things in Hawaii. In the meantime I
                    imagine that there will be somewhat of a ruckus, but I think it is best
                    handled by those living on Maui, in the special world that Maui is.

                    Those of us from the madlands should just respectfully keep our mouths
                    shut(after a 1 page diatribe) and let them work it out. The alternative (as
                    Laird taught me) is far worse.

                    Happy New Year!
                    ~mike

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Robert Pratt [mailto:rpratt@...-lansing.mi.us]
                    Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2000 5:45 AM
                    To: kitesurf@egroups.com
                    Subject: [ksurf] Re: Have you ever been to Ho'okipa?????!!!!!!!!


                    Eli,
                    I do get it, no I haven't been to Ho'okipa. But I've surfed and windsurfed
                    all over the mainland. The local surfers in Oxnard have some pretty ugly
                    localism. I show respect to locals who deserve it, I avoid crowded beaches
                    and wouldn't sail, kite or surf at Ho'pokipa I would find a less crowded
                    beach (even if it the conditions were lesser quality).
                    The objections I raise are ;
                    #1 the windsurfer attacked Flash, I don't care what the offense was, this is
                    no less than vigalanty justice. Who appointed this person judge, jury and
                    executioner? Everyone should condemn this action. I wonder what the FBI
                    would have said about the incident had they been at the beach.
                    #2 Who decideds who gets to sail/surf/kite at a certain beach? How did this
                    evolve? How is that information disceminated? To say "I get to surf here
                    and you don't because I live around here " is absurd.
                    It sounds like the rules in Hawaii have some common sense, ie.. small place
                    poor access but also have some localism (White Americans?).
                    Sorry for the rant but its -5' and a foot of snow's on the ground. I only
                    wish I were in Hawaii or Antigua.
                    Happy new year,
                    bob


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