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[ksurf] Re: technique for going DOWNWIND...

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  • REGGIE CAMPBELL
    stefano............you want tips to win the wd40 downwinder...... ............................................................... ... eGroup home:
    Message 1 of 11 , May 7, 1999
      stefano............you want tips to win the wd40 downwinder......
      ...............................................................
      ........................reg....................................

      >From: Stefano_Rosso%BUNGEAGRIBUSINESS@...
      >Reply-To: kitesurf@egroups.com
      >To: kitesurf@egroups.com
      >Subject: [ksurf] technique for going DOWNWIND...
      >Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 14:08:17 -0400
      >
      >
      >
      >ok... we have heard what to do to go upwind - what if you want to go
      >DOWNwind... as fast as possible
      >
      >do you use a kite like the NASA or will a faster kite like a soft foil on
      >long lines be better ?
      >
      >any guesses or wild opinions ?
      >
      >
      >
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    • Peter A. Traykovski
      ... It is theorectically difficult to go faster than the wind speed straight downwind because the apparent wind goes to zero. So to go straight downwind any
      Message 2 of 11 , May 7, 1999
        Stefano_Rosso%BUNGEAGRIBUSINESS@... wrote:

        > ok... we have heard what to do to go upwind - what if you want to go
        > DOWNwind... as fast as possible
        >
        > do you use a kite like the NASA or will a faster kite like a soft foil on
        > long lines be better ?
        >
        > any guesses or wild opinions ?
        >
        >

        It is theorectically difficult to go faster than the wind speed straight
        downwind because the apparent wind goes to zero. So to go straight downwind
        any kite that you can keep in front of you in the power zone should be ok. I
        should imagine a slower kite would easier to do this.

        To win the WD-40 you'll need be able to reach fast...and maybe even go upwind
        a little so what ever is fast for you normally will work....

        Of course this is coming from someone who has never actually been
        kitesurfing...but has sailed the WD-40

        --
        Peter


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      • Stefano_Rosso%BUNGEAGRIBUSINESS@bunge.com
        stefano............you want tips to win the wd40 downwinder...... ...............................................................
        Message 3 of 11 , May 7, 1999
          stefano............you want tips to win the wd40 downwinder......
          ...............................................................
          ........................reg....................................

          well - also - but I am limited since i cannot have all my kites here - my
          best choice would be an overpowered cquad - which pulls downwind like a
          truck ! but its not straight downwind so any kite that is fast is probably
          the way to go - depending on the wind direction you need to go upwind to
          get out of the bay into the open ocean... (if it starts in Kalmus)

          are you going to be there , reg ?



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        • Dave Culp
          ... The fastest route downwind is *never* straight downwind. It is a very broad reach, likely with the kite making figure-8 sweeps to keep it as powered up as
          Message 4 of 11 , May 7, 1999
            >stefano:
            >my
            >best choice would be an overpowered cquad - which pulls downwind like a
            >truck ! but its not straight downwind so any kite that is fast is probably
            >the way to go -

            The fastest route downwind is *never* straight downwind. It is a very
            broad reach, likely with the kite making figure-8 sweeps to keep it as
            powered up as possible. Talk to Cory Roeseler, who has several times
            completed the 20-mile Gorge Blowout in under an hour.

            On land, it is possible to sail *almost* dead downwind at 2-3 times the
            windspeed (yes, the kite is in front of you, while you feel wind in your
            face). To do this, one sails the kite in a vertical figure 8, and
            zig-zags the buggy very slightly, from about 165 degrees to "by-the-lee"
            slightly--perhaps 185 degrees. In one portion of the "stroke" the kite is
            pulling the buggy, in the other, the buggy "feels" like it's pulling the
            kite.

            This is difficult to explain, and more dificult to do. By and large, only
            the most experienced buggiers can manage it (I only know one, but made
            him take me on a tandem buggy with me having nothing to do but
            measure--and feel--the apparent wind.) If I wanted to perfect this, I'd
            practice it on land with a buggy first, then work to transfer the
            technique to water.

            I'm quite sure it can be done, on water. Imagine blasting past the fleet
            at 2x windspeed, dead to leeward!

            Dave Culp

            --
            Dave Culp Speedsailing dave@... http://www.dcss.org/speedsl
            Kite powered boats, high speed sailing, proas and more. Check it out!



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          • Stefano_Rosso%BUNGEAGRIBUSINESS@bunge.com
            The fastest route downwind is *never* straight downwind. Dave, I was saying that the course is not straight downwind - they make you reach a lot - because
            Message 5 of 11 , May 7, 1999
              The fastest route downwind is *never* straight downwind.

              Dave, I was saying that the course is not straight downwind - they make
              you reach a lot - because otherwise the windsurfers would have to carry too
              big a sail for the downwind and then they will have a problem on the upwind
              (the windsurfers in the pro class are racing back upwind after)

              but ... I agree with your comments. I guess that you need a BIG kite for
              this (relative to the normal size kite you would be using in this wind ??



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            • Dave Culp
              ... Not normally, no. First, on an optimum course to leeward (about 140-150 degrees from the true wind--depends on the hull s resistance), apparent wind is
              Message 6 of 11 , May 7, 1999
                >I guess that you need a BIG kite for
                >this (relative to the normal size kite you would be using in this wind ??

                Not normally, no.

                First, on an optimum course to leeward (about 140-150 degrees from the
                true wind--depends on the hull's resistance), apparent wind is about
                70-80% of true wind, so there's still lots of wind available.

                Second, on offwind courses, zig-zagging the kite (or figure 8, whatever)
                is very much worthwhile. Getting the kite moving at even 1.5 times the
                speed of the sailor/hull means the kite sees 3/2ths the apparent wind the
                man sees, thus 9/4ths the force, and suddenly your rig is twice the size
                it was... Moving the kite at twice the hull's speed means 4 times the
                force... Large sails aren't needed at all.

                Dave Culp

                --
                Dave Culp Speedsailing dave@... http://www.dcss.org/speedsl
                Kite powered boats, high speed sailing, proas and more. Check it out!



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              • Laurent Ness - Axel'Air
                ... The fastest route downwind is *never* straight downwind. It is a very broad reach, likely with the kite making figure-8 sweeps to keep it as powered up as
                Message 7 of 11 , May 8, 1999
                   

                  Dave Culp wrote:

                   
                  >stefano:
                  >my
                  >best choice would be an overpowered cquad - which pulls downwind like a
                  >truck ! but its not straight downwind so any kite that is fast  is probably
                  >the way to go -
                  
                  The fastest route downwind is *never* straight downwind. It is a very
                  broad reach, likely with the kite making figure-8 sweeps to keep it as
                  powered up as possible. Talk to Cory Roeseler, who has several times
                  completed the 20-mile Gorge Blowout in under an hour.
                  
                  On land, it is possible to sail *almost* dead downwind at 2-3 times the
                  windspeed (yes, the kite is in front of you, while you feel wind in your
                  face). To do this, one sails the kite in a vertical figure 8, and
                  zig-zags the buggy very slightly, from about 165 degrees to "by-the-lee"
                  slightly--perhaps 185 degrees. In one portion of the "stroke" the kite is
                  pulling the buggy, in the other, the buggy "feels" like it's pulling the
                  kite.
                  
                  This is difficult to explain, and more dificult to do. 
                  Dave,
                  It is easier to do that what you think.
                  Just be carefull because when your kite is outside of the wind window 
                  (means you pull it), do not loose all your speed other wise it will fall 
                  in the water because when you have stopped it is really outside of the window.
                  With this pulling the kite technique, you nearly can go downwind for short times 
                  but you will not go straight. Let's say 100 ° to go faster than throw your kite back
                  and you are 160/170 ° and turn the kite front direction before you loose your speed
                  This technique is really funny because when you send back the kite you have a big energy 
                  to resist at.
                  Laurent Ness

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                  --
                  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                             Laurent Ness Axel'Air Champion de France 97
                                Specialiste  Flysurf, Char, Traction...
                                   rue St Clair 34280 Carnon Ouest France
                              tel 33 (0) 4 67 50 62 60   fax 33 (0) 4 67 68 54 25
                                      e-mail: axelair@...
                                     http://www.axelair.com
                  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                   


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                • Laurent Ness - Axel'Air
                  ... to do it really well ! Laurent Ness ... eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/group/kitesurf http://www.eGroups.com - Simplifying group communications
                  Message 8 of 11 , May 8, 1999
                     
                     
                     
                     
                    Stefano_Rosso%BUNGEAGRIBUSINESS@... wrote:
                    
                    > ok... we have heard what to do to go upwind - what if you want to go
                    > DOWNwind... as fast as possible
                    >
                    > do you use a kite like the NASA or will a faster kite like a soft foil on
                    > long lines be better ?
                    >
                    > any guesses or wild opinions ?
                    >
                    >The faster kite you can handle, better a thin profile foil . THe kiteski seems 
                    to do it really well !
                    Laurent Ness

                     
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                  • REGGIE CAMPBELL
                    would love to come but i ll think i will just stay warm down here thanks....................reg ... eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/group/kitesurf
                    Message 9 of 11 , May 8, 1999
                      would love to come but i'll think i will just stay warm down here
                      thanks....................reg


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                    • jean-michel.sirand
                      Hello!! I do not want received any more message from egroups . com can you tell me how can I do???? bye ... De : Laurent Ness - Axel Air À
                      Message 10 of 11 , May 17, 1999
                        Hello!!
                         
                        I do not want received any more message from egroups . com can you tell me how can I do????
                         
                        bye
                        -----Message d'origine-----
                        De : Laurent Ness - Axel'Air <axelair@...>
                        À : kitesurf@egroups.com <kitesurf@egroups.com>
                        Date : samedi 8 mai 1999 10:42
                        Objet : [ksurf] Re: technique for going DOWNWIND...

                         
                         
                         
                         
                        Stefano_Rosso%BUNGEAGRIBUSINESS@... wrote:
                        
                        > ok... we have heard what to do to go upwind - what if you want to go
                        > DOWNwind... as fast as possible
                        >
                        > do you use a kite like the NASA or will a faster kite like a soft foil on
                        > long lines be better ?
                        >
                        > any guesses or wild opinions ?
                        >
                        >The faster kite you can handle, better a thin profile foil . THe kiteski seems 
                        to do it really well !
                        Laurent Ness

                         
                        click here
                        Click Here!

                        eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/group/kitesurf
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                      • Cory Roeseler
                        I agree. A fast kite (Kiteski) is best for upwind and for downwind. The only difference is that for downwind runs you can use very long lines (70m). Cory ...
                        Message 11 of 11 , May 20, 1999
                          I agree.  A fast kite (Kiteski) is best for upwind and for downwind.  The only difference is that for downwind runs you can use very long lines (70m).
                           
                          Cory
                           
                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: jean-michel.sirand <jean-michel.sirand@...>
                          To: kitesurf@egroups.com <kitesurf@egroups.com>
                          Date: Monday, May 17, 1999 8:16 AM
                          Subject: [ksurf] Re: technique for going DOWNWIND...

                          Hello!!
                           
                          I do not want received any more message from egroups . com can you tell me how can I do????
                           
                          bye
                          -----Message d'origine-----
                          De : Laurent Ness - Axel'Air <axelair@...>
                          À : kitesurf@egroups.com <kitesurf@egroups.com>
                          Date : samedi 8 mai 1999 10:42
                          Objet : [ksurf] Re: technique for going DOWNWIND...

                           
                           
                           
                           
                          Stefano_Rosso%BUNGEAGRIBUSINESS@... wrote:
                          
                          > ok... we have heard what to do to go upwind - what if you want to go
                          > DOWNwind... as fast as possible
                          >
                          > do you use a kite like the NASA or will a faster kite like a soft foil on
                          > long lines be better ?
                          >
                          > any guesses or wild opinions ?
                          >
                          >The faster kite you can handle, better a thin profile foil . THe kiteski seems 
                          to do it really well !
                          Laurent Ness

                           
                          click here
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                          eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/group/kitesurf
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                          click here
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