Re: Please explain "edge harder"
- Different styles, but you can edge as hard both ways.
#1 us using more rail by loading his front foot more than #2 who is
using his fins more.
I find that I can sail a lot more confortably like #1 and that
up the tail a lot kills your back leg.
#1 has to be a little more careful not to take too much pressure off
his back foot or else the tail can easily slip away from him in big
> I guess what I'm saying is I seem to be able to edge harder if I sink theAbsolutely right. Thats the reason the Jimmy Lewis Wakeboards have a swallow
> rear edge of the board more.
tail. -> To sink the tail deeper in order to edge harder.
>I agree with that. I added inserts and moved my straps back to accomplish
> I guess what I'm saying is I seem to be able to edge harder if I sink the
> rear edge of the board more.
this. If you ride foils, your straps may be too far forward. On my 6'6 board
my rear insert was at 12" and I moved it back to 10 1/2. On Jacky's 5'6 the
rear insert is at 10". On my 5'9 my rear insert is at 12". On many boards
I've seen, riders are limited to 14" as their rear most insert. On my 7'2
14" was right. Different boards require different placement, yours may not
be perfect. I sold my 6'6 and 7'2, the 5'9 does it all and is easier to ride
like Rad dude #2.
- Thanks for the tips all. Sounds like "edge harder" means push down
harder. This could be time for a few skier type thigh strenthening
It sounds reasonable that my straps have been set up too far forward
for a foil as Alex the Stonker man is a Wipika pilot. I'll try moving
my straps further back, though I have limited scope for that without
putting in new plugs. I may end up with a wider stance and I feel
has been limiting my ability to edge strongly.
--- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "Dwight & Jacky" <fishersfort@a...>
> >sink the
> > I guess what I'm saying is I seem to be able to edge harder if I
> > rear edge of the board more.accomplish
> I agree with that. I added inserts and moved my straps back to
> this. If you ride foils, your straps may be too far forward. On my6'6 board
> my rear insert was at 12" and I moved it back to 10 1/2. On Jacky's5'6 the
> rear insert is at 10". On my 5'9 my rear insert is at 12". On manyboards
> I've seen, riders are limited to 14" as their rear most insert. Onmy 7'2
> 14" was right. Different boards require different placement, yoursmay not
> be perfect. I sold my 6'6 and 7'2, the 5'9 does it all and iseasier
> like Rad dude #2.
>Thanks for the tips all. Sounds like "edge harder" means push down harder.Yes - but on the upwind EDGE of the board ie bury the edge of the board as
deep as you can get it in strong winds as, or JUST BEFORE, you become
>This could be time for a few skier type thigh strengthening exercises.Not really - you only have to hold the pressure for a short time. While
holding the edge, apply bottom line pressure to keep the kite flying low and
horizontally and watch the kite drive to the edge of the wind window until
the pressure eases. With a slower kite you will have to hold the pressure
>It sounds reasonable that my straps have been set up too far forwardThis shouldn't make any difference. Alex's boards are fine, but ours are
>for a foil as Alex the Stonker man is a Wipika pilot.
Most people used to think our boards were too narrow but as their skills are
improving they can see that it's much easier to get good rail control with a
narrower board. I still teach with the same board and most learners do not
have any problem with a narrow board - it only seems to be people who are
already set in a paradigm of a wide board with two straps up front.
One critical issue with board design is rail control and this is affected by
having one or two foot-straps up front. With two straps up front you can't
get your foot across the stringer as far and must go for a wider board to
avoid having your heel drag in the water. With a single strap up front you
get excellent "heel-toe" rail control which makes wave riding and jibing so
much easier and under control. You can still switch stance easily with a
single strap up front and I have yet to lose a board in a jump, loop or spin
as a result of having of a single strap up front.
Also a wider board has more buoyancy. The more buoyancy the harder it is to
sink the edge to hold the power and go upwind.
>I may end up with a wider stanceThat probably won't hurt but optimum stance should be a little wider than
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- In a message dated 00-06-01 18:56:49 EDT, gregwal@... writes:
<< I'll try moving
my straps further back, though I have limited scope for that without
putting in new plugs. >>
First try just bending your back leg a lot, & holding your bar/handles as far
towards the back of the board as you can. That puts the loads further aft,
similar to having straps further aft. See if it makes any difference. If
not, there's no need to move the straps.
- Ian Young wrote
> Also a wider board has more buoyancy. The more buoyancy the harder it is toHmm.. i think it's a more complex problem,
> sink the edge to hold the power and go upwind.
A Narrow and evenly thick board CAN have more buoyancy and be harder to edge than a wide board whit thinner edges and the buoyancy and weight more concentrated in the middle,
BUT on a wider board, the lever when you are lifting the weight of the downwind edge gets longer and it can be harder to edge then on a narrow board,
So it's not ONLY the buoyancy and the width that matters, but allso the shape
O SHIT, will i ever get the courage to build me a new board . (what shape is it , Mans ??? surprise or what???)
- In a message dated 00-06-02 08:40:16 EDT, gunnar.helena@... writes:
<< Hmm.. i think it's a more complex problem, >>
How much difference can buoyancy make, when all that's touching the water is
the bottom surface of the board? I'd think surface area would matter more.
How much difference can width make, if your heels are the same distance from
the windward edge, & the leeward edge is in the air? (on a wider board) I'd
think strap placement would matter more - both lateral & logitudinal (further
forward to dig more rail)
> << Hmm.. i think it's a more complex problem, >>
> How much difference can buoyancy make, when all that's touching the water
> the bottom surface of the board? I'd think surface area would mattermore.
thats if you are allways powered up ! if you are underpowered for even 1
second then buoyancy will keep you planing through the lull OR another case
is if you are starting to plane - buoyancy will get you planing faster
- Hi Stefano,
In physics water and air are both fluids right? So from my understanding it
must be mainly surface area that affects planing, I'm not sure where
buoyancy comes into board design. Over here we sell and use Underground
boards that are 1.95M and only 35mm thick divinicell/epoxy and they do not
have much buoyancy they are reasonably wide and are flat bottomed and they
plane very easily.
I think buoyancy/volume and length contribute to greater ability to stay on
the plane in lulls.
Footstrap placement on bigger boards is very important for me as I only
weigh 68kg. I wish board manufacturers would put a lot more plugs in their
boards to give a wider range of adjustment.
My latest Stonker 1.85M will have extra plugs to double the range of
adjustment, and swivel thrusters too, can't wait to get it.
Leverage and buoyancy must make a difference to how hard it is to edge a
particular board though ? What do you think?
>Not just in physics !
> In physics water and air are both fluids right?
So from my understanding it
> must be mainly surface area that affects planing, I'm not sure wherePlaning is not similar to a foil flying through the air.. a planing surface
> buoyancy comes into board design.
is working on a boundary between two different fluids..air and water... its
ruled by VERY complex formulas (so complex in fact that there are hardly any
formulas worth using in a practical sense)... most planing work is figured
out empirically - thats why the best board shapers are the most
experienced - they know what works and what doesnt.
Buoyancy comes in when you are marginally planning - As i said - if you are
totally powered up ALL the time then it doesnt matter as the water will
effectively only notice the bottom of the board. When you stop planning for
a second even (it happens when you land from a jump) then the buoyancy comes
into effect... not that more buoyancy will make you plane earlier so its
good. It will also make the board less stable etc etc... a no buoyancy board
is fine in Totally powered conditions,,, in normal conditions buoyancy is a
factor - but it has to be finely tuned so as not to reduce the performance
of the board.
Over here we sell and use Underground
> boards that are 1.95M and only 35mm thick divinicell/epoxy and they do notif you are nicely powered ...also a flat bottom helps plane through lulls -
> have much buoyancy they are reasonably wide and are flat bottomed and they
> plane very easily.
wakeboard have a lot of rocker over a short lenght = plane little through
> I think buoyancy/volume and length contribute to greater ability to stayon
> the plane in lulls.yep !
> Leverage and buoyancy must make a difference to how hard it is to edge aKiteboards are even more complicated because they dont sail flat... this
> particular board though ? What do you think
makes their water line a cross section of the board which is why thickness
in the sides is an issue - if there is a lot of volume to the edges then you
cant sink the edge -
Designing a kiteboard is a nice challenge huh ?
- Hi Stefano
> > In physics water and air are both fluids right?In reality - right?? :-o))
> Not just in physics !
> Designing a kiteboard is a nice challenge huh ?Yep, thats why I'm sticking to running 2 shops stocking thousands of
products raising children and just using other peoples products way
Thanks for the very informative answer, makes me very appreciative of the
Legainoux bros, Lynn's, Montague's, Salle's, Preston's, Rogallo's, Wright's
etc etc, work. We need all of them to keep at it and one day we will have
even better kites and gear. Cya and