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Re: [ksurf]AR 5 conspiracy

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  • Greg Walsh
    If any other manufacturers have anything revolutionary in the works then please start hyping it now. I am seriously in need of a smaller kite and the AR5
    Message 1 of 15 , May 3, 2000
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      If any other manufacturers have anything revolutionary in the works
      then please start hyping it now. I am seriously in need of a smaller
      kite and the AR5 certainly seems to be the obvious choice. I just
      want to have fun kitesurfing. I'm not all that inclined to be part of
      a purist minority.

      In January R.Naish said they sell 2000 kite a month. In the last
      issue of Cross Country he said they were selling 3000 a month and he
      expects to sell 5 times that many by mid-late this year. I read that
      to mean over 10,000 kites a month. You other manufacturers had better
      pull your fingers out and start innovating, hyping and selling or be
      relegated to small, purist niche markets. (Any body got any good beta
      format kitesurf videos I can watch on my Mac?)

      Greg
    • Dwight & Jacky
      ... A friend of mine has flown the Concept Air New Wave and has been blown away by the impressive performance of the sheeting control, or whatever you would
      Message 2 of 15 , May 3, 2000
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        > If any other manufacturers have anything revolutionary in the works
        > then please start hyping it now.

        A friend of mine has flown the Concept Air New Wave and has been blown away
        by the impressive performance of the sheeting control, or whatever you would
        like to call it. The truth is it works and does depower the kite and make it
        go upwind like crazy. So for the diehard foil men there is some competition
        to Naish's sheeting kite.

        I will never go back, but for some of you this new kite is what you've been
        waiting for.

        Dwight
      • Richard Lui
        how about a Seasmik Alpha... the 7.0m has finally been release or a Concept Air New Wave or Liquid Force Kite Mac format is .mov right??? ~Rich
        Message 3 of 15 , May 3, 2000
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          how about a Seasmik Alpha... the 7.0m has finally been release or
          a Concept Air New Wave or
          Liquid Force Kite

          Mac format is .mov right???

          ~Rich
          extremekites@...



          Greg Walsh wrote:
          >
          > If any other manufacturers have anything revolutionary in the works
          > then please start hyping it now. I am seriously in need of a smaller
          > kite and the AR5 certainly seems to be the obvious choice. I just
          > want to have fun kitesurfing. I'm not all that inclined to be part of
          > a purist minority.
          >
          > In January R.Naish said they sell 2000 kite a month. In the last
          > issue of Cross Country he said they were selling 3000 a month and he
          > expects to sell 5 times that many by mid-late this year. I read that
          > to mean over 10,000 kites a month. You other manufacturers had better
          > pull your fingers out and start innovating, hyping and selling or be
          > relegated to small, purist niche markets. (Any body got any good beta
          > format kitesurf videos I can watch on my Mac?)
          >
          > Greg
          >
          > The Kitesurf Group is sponsored by windTools
          >
          > windTools - producer of the legendary Mosquito Pro KS
          > Get the right kitesurfingstuff.
          >
          > Visit http://www.windTools.com
          >
          > <<< to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com >>>
        • Richard Lui
          what would you like to know about the NEW Wave? ~Rich extremekites@home.com
          Message 4 of 15 , May 3, 2000
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            what would you like to know about the NEW Wave?


            ~Rich
            extremekites@...



            George Hradil wrote:
            >
            > Man, what is it with everyone on this group pimping the AR 5. What
            > happened to the good old day when we bitched that Naish was ripping us
            > off, now all you guys are ponying up the cash to ride AR 5's.
            >
            > Todd, I thought I could depend on you, what happened? All so you could
            > sheetout to be comfortable, how weak.
            >
            > I for one will never switch, I love my wipika 5.0 and my foils, plus I
            > have property taxes to pay and don't own any stock, soo, I won't be
            > switching for at least a week or two.
            >
            > tongue firmly in cheek, Regards George
            >
            > P.S. I am however really getting tired of hearing about the AR 5, lets
            > hear about the new Wave.
            >
            > The Kitesurf Group is sponsored by windTools
            >
            > windTools - producer of the legendary Mosquito Pro KS
            > Get the right kitesurfingstuff.
            >
            > Visit http://www.windTools.com
            >
            > <<< to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com >>>
          • Greg Walsh
            Why is the wind range the about the same for the New Wave 4.9 as the Wave EX 4.8? (About 18-36km). How much extra range does the trimming system give? Are the
            Message 5 of 15 , May 3, 2000
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              Why is the wind range the about the same for the New Wave 4.9 as the
              Wave EX 4.8? (About 18-36km). How much extra range does the trimming
              system give?

              Are the bridles stitched or knotted? Are they made from the usual
              soft
              spectra or are they made of stiffened material to minimise tangling?

              Are the kites still made from Porcher Marine? I understand there is a
              new coating to resist salt damage. Do you know anything about this?

              Are the kites delivered complete with lines and bar? I think CA are
              using Climax lines now.

              Greg

              --- In kitesurf@egroups.com, Richard Lui <extremekites@h...> wrote:
              > what would you like to know about the NEW Wave?
              >
              >
              > ~Rich
              > extremekites@h...
            • S.Tonini
              All I can say is, Naish makes some great kites. Problem is, I ve never tried anything else other than learning on a Wipika (which was a distateful experience
              Message 6 of 15 , May 3, 2000
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                All I can say is, Naish makes some great kites. Problem is, I've
                never tried anything else other than learning on a Wipika (which was
                a distateful experience in itself, the switch to Naish ensured long-
                term customer loyalty for me). So my viewpoint may be inaccurate.

                The thing is, due to the newness of the sport, it is difficult to
                "try before you buy" - at least in my area. So, when I buy a kite,
                I'm banking on the company's r&d, investments, technology, quality,
                etc. Myself having a windsurfing backgound, I knew that Naish kites
                would live up to par - that's not say the other companies would not.
                So, I made the switch, am very happy, and don't feel like throwing
                out more cash on another make to "see how I like it". I think there
                are a lot of kitesurfers coming from windsurfing backgrounds who
                share these viewpoints.

                I've never tried a foil but would really like to. Question is, how?
                There's about 12 guys who sail where I do, most of them are on
                inflatables.

                Once manufacturers start seriously competing on availability,
                geographic coverage, and (better yet) demo days or rentals through
                their retail networks, then I think we'll see things heat up.

                Lastly, companies better start agressively pursuing additional
                markets, since for one thing the Naish distribution infrastructure is
                already in place, thanks to the windsurfing side of the business;
                this gives the company huge advantages in terms of reach for existing
                as well as new customers.

                In the meantime, keep the discussion going on all products, this is
                one of the best sources of info for this nascent sport. It certainly
                will help those of us deciding on which kites to purchase, like it
                did for me. Then again, the majority of discussions are on AR5's,
                right George?

                Steve

                --- In kitesurf@egroups.com, George Hradil <Hradil@w...> wrote:
                > Man, what is it with everyone on this group pimping the AR 5. What
                > happened to the good old day when we bitched that Naish was ripping
                us
                > off, now all you guys are ponying up the cash to ride AR 5's.
                >
                > Todd, I thought I could depend on you, what happened? All so you
                could
                > sheetout to be comfortable, how weak.
                >
                > I for one will never switch, I love my wipika 5.0 and my foils,
                plus I
                > have property taxes to pay and don't own any stock, soo, I won't be
                > switching for at least a week or two.
                >
                > tongue firmly in cheek, Regards George
                >
                > P.S. I am however really getting tired of hearing about the AR 5,
                lets
                > hear about the new Wave.
              • David Trewern
                ... I suppose the AR5 s are becoming popular because they are the middle ground between these very different kites. They have the benefits of both - in one
                Message 7 of 15 , May 3, 2000
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                  > I for one will never switch, I love my wipika 5.0 and my foils

                  I suppose the AR5's are becoming popular because they are the middle ground
                  between these very different kites. They have the benefits of both - in one
                  kite.
                • Dr. Stan Schiller
                  Hi Dwight I just 4 lined the New WAVE...I plan to fly it as soon as wind drops a Little....Are You flying 3 line or 4 line?????? Stan Schiller
                  Message 8 of 15 , May 3, 2000
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                    Hi Dwight
                    I just 4 lined the New WAVE...I plan to fly it as soon as wind drops a
                    Little....Are You flying 3 line or 4 line??????
                    Stan Schiller
                  • Dwight & Jacky
                    Stan, My friend has been vacationing at Hatteras for the last 1 1/2 weeks and flying the NEW Waves with Benoit, from CA. He has been given a demo kite to use
                    Message 9 of 15 , May 4, 2000
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                      Stan,

                      My friend has been vacationing at Hatteras for the last 1 1/2 weeks and
                      flying the NEW Waves with Benoit, from CA. He has been given a demo kite to
                      use and pass around. Here is some of what he sent me recently. I've removed
                      the names because I didn't get their permission to publish. There is limited
                      ISP access out there, so mail is spotty. I have not flown the kite, but this
                      guys opinion can be trusted. BTW I have the 4.5 and 7.5 AR5's and love them.

                      Dwight


                      Benoit gave me a 4.9 to bring home
                      and evaluate. Been on it about 8 hours in the last 2 days in winds from
                      10 to 20 knots - actually maybe even more wind since when I finally
                      switched to sailing I had to fully down and outhaul my 4.5 Rave on the
                      Naish. TNW has a sheeting system that works. (I know you are not
                      interested, but I have to share my enthusiasm with somebody...) A 15" or
                      so strap connects the bar to the third (TE) line and has a yellow
                      circular strap attached that you release to sheet out and a red that
                      you pull to sheet in. To launch you fully depower, pull on the power
                      lines and the kite leaps into the air and goes to 12:00 in 3-5 seconds.
                      Zoom! Since it is depowered you only have to take 1 or 2 steps forward
                      and there is NO strong pull. The kite then just sits hovering at 12,
                      occasionally drooping its tips a bit and settling 3 or 4 feet then
                      without any input recovers and lumbers back to 12. No pull on the bar.
                      No hands on the bar! And this in 20 or more knots as well as in 10
                      knots. Acquire the board with NO pull on the bar by the kite, pull on
                      the red loop to sheet in then dive the kite and you're off. She parks at
                      10:00 and pulls so smoothly it's a dream. So
                      easy to set an edge and smoke upwind across all the windsurfers, ending
                      way upwind of all of them, all the while going faster than them if you
                      want. Honest! I couldn't believe it and neither could they. In fact, (name
                      edited out) is right now at Fox buying a 4.9 New Wave after watching me and
                      riding
                      under it on his Fox board for about an hour. He broke a board leash, had
                      the kite in the water for 15 minutes or more, it took on no water and
                      still was trying to waterstart as he walked his board in.
                      If the wind increases so that you're fighting hard to hold the big edge
                      and are getting pulled downwind, just pull the yellow loop and release
                      from 1 to 10 inches depending on your degree of overpower, and you're
                      right back in the sweet zone with a huge edge driving upwind and ready
                      to haul her back and jump. I have to relearn how to jibe with a bar;
                      it's surprisingly different than with handles, different response rate,
                      different feel. She relaunches almost without intervention. Rolls
                      automatically on edge
                      and flies away essentially on her own. Oh, and you just pull on the
                      yellow loop when you crash to avoid any post-crash dragging. As soon as
                      I hit after a bad jump or jibe, the bar is almost always right in front
                      of my face. I grab the loop with my teeth and immediately fully depower!
                      No dragging. She climbs to 12, I acquire the board, pull the red and
                      restart. It's damn near magic. It may be very similar to what you're
                      finding with the Naish, only I don't ever have to lunge or swim or fight
                      (at least so far...) and the relaunch is immediate. With no pull. Love
                      it. I honestly think it's a safer learners' rig than an inflatable. You
                      can still kill it by pulling on the brake line and/or have a brake leash
                      attached to you.
                      The range seems to be huge, and I wonder just how much wind she can
                      handle. Maybe I can get away with a 4.9 and a 9.3! I can see why the
                      guys with the AR5s were quoting such large wind ranges.

                      (name edited out)
                    • Todd Snyder
                      Hey If you recall in my earlier post when I was flying my f.one foil back in dec. jan. feb. I was at the point where I was useing the kite in overpowering
                      Message 10 of 15 , May 4, 2000
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                        Hey If you recall in my earlier post when I was flying my f.one foil back in
                        dec. jan. feb.
                        I was at the point where I was useing the kite in overpowering conditions and
                        looking for away to gain more top end with out sacrificing to much bottom
                        end, and a way to sheet out in the gusts .

                        Then the ar 5s came out with the aoa adjustments and with a few mods of my
                        own, was exactly what I was looking for...

                        Now I get a hell of alot of range with one kite ...

                        I can't afford to purchase alot of kites so I was looking to get the most
                        range for the buck.....

                        Our winds are between 12 to 22 and thats perfect for my 11.5 ar5.

                        But just my convince my wife I need the 15.5. Which would allow me to spend
                        more time with my family ........ Get the pitch?????


                        Later,
                        Todd

                        George Hradil wrote:

                        >
                        >
                        > Todd, I thought I could depend on you, what happened? All so you could
                        > sheetout to be comfortable, how weak.
                        >
                        > I for one will never switch, I love my wipika 5.0 and my foils, plus I
                        > have property taxes to pay and don't own any stock, soo, I won't be
                        > switching for at least a week or two.
                        >
                        > tongue firmly in cheek, Regards George
                        >
                        > P.S. I am however really getting tired of hearing about the AR 5, lets
                        > hear about the new Wave.
                        >
                        > The Kitesurf Group is sponsored by windTools
                        >
                        > windTools - producer of the legendary Mosquito Pro KS
                        > Get the right kitesurfingstuff.
                        >
                        > Visit http://www.windTools.com
                        >
                        > <<< to unsubscribe send a message to kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com >>>

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                      • KiteBoard@aol.com
                        In a message dated 5/4/00 3:10:21 AM Pacific Daylight Time, fishersfort@attglobal.net writes:
                        Message 11 of 15 , May 4, 2000
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                          In a message dated 5/4/00 3:10:21 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
                          fishersfort@... writes:

                          << TNW has a sheeting system that works. (I know you are not
                          interested, but I have to share my enthusiasm with somebody...) A 15" or
                          so strap connects the bar to the third (TE) line and has a yellow
                          circular strap attached that you release to sheet out and a red that
                          you pull to sheet in. >>

                          Seems like it would be nearly impossible to set up an instantaneous sheeting
                          system (like a Wipika, Naish, Seasmik, or Davinci with "trim line"). That's
                          the main advantage (for me anyway).

                          Mel
                        • KiteBoard@aol.com
                          In a message dated 5/3/00 11:17:27 PM Pacific Daylight Time, david@dtdesign.com.au writes: I for one will never switch, I love my wipika 5.0 and my foils
                          Message 12 of 15 , May 4, 2000
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                            In a message dated 5/3/00 11:17:27 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
                            david@... writes:

                            << > I for one will never switch, I love my wipika 5.0 and my foils

                            I suppose the AR5's are becoming popular because they are the middle ground
                            between these very different kites. They have the benefits of both - in one
                            kite. >>

                            One of the primary benefits of the AR5 is simply the control system, which
                            can also be used on an AR3.5, or any later model Wipika.

                            Mel
                          • Richard Grauss BOOM! Kites
                            Hi Mel, it is possible. Bye! Richard BOOM! Kites ... From: To: Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2000 11:27 PM Subject: Re:
                            Message 13 of 15 , May 4, 2000
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                              Hi Mel,

                              it is possible.

                              Bye!

                              Richard
                              BOOM! Kites

                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: <KiteBoard@...>
                              To: <kitesurf@egroups.com>
                              Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2000 11:27 PM
                              Subject: Re: [ksurf]AR 5 conspiracy


                              > In a message dated 5/4/00 3:10:21 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
                              > fishersfort@... writes:
                              >
                              > << TNW has a sheeting system that works. (I know you are not
                              > interested, but I have to share my enthusiasm with
                              somebody...) A 15" or
                              > so strap connects the bar to the third (TE) line and has a
                              yellow
                              > circular strap attached that you release to sheet out and a
                              red that
                              > you pull to sheet in. >>
                              >
                              > Seems like it would be nearly impossible to set up an
                              instantaneous sheeting
                              > system (like a Wipika, Naish, Seasmik, or Davinci with "trim
                              line"). That's
                              > the main advantage (for me anyway).
                              >
                              > Mel
                              >
                              >
                              > The Kitesurf Group is sponsored by windTools
                              >
                              > windTools - producer of the legendary Mosquito Pro KS
                              > Get the right kitesurfingstuff.
                              >
                              > Visit http://www.windTools.com
                              >
                              > <<< to unsubscribe send a message to
                              kitesurf-unsubscribe@egroups.com >>>
                              >
                            • KiteBoard@aol.com
                              In a message dated 00-05-05 02:58:40 EDT, richard@boom-kites.com writes: Please explain how. I guess I should have been more specific:
                              Message 14 of 15 , May 5, 2000
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                                In a message dated 00-05-05 02:58:40 EDT, richard@... writes:

                                << it is possible. >>

                                Please explain how. I guess I should have been more specific: It seems to
                                me you could not set it up so that you can simply straighten your arms to
                                prevent getting pulled over frontwards (instinctive, like with the AR5,
                                DaVinci, etc.), and simply bend your arms to prevent falling over backwards.
                                That is possible with the inflatables because they steer with the lines that
                                can be PULLED to sheet in (increase power). It seems that the Concept Air
                                steers with the lines need to be RELEASED to sheet in.

                                Mel
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