[ksurf] Re: 4-line bar
> If you're powered up control is more than adequate with a bar.Landing is
> just as easy with a 3 or 4-line bar. Launching can be more difficultover. A
> because you can't brake a tip if the kite tries to surge and roll
> bar probably insulates the kite from some extreme pilot movement.Handle
> movements can be quite subtle whereas you can fling the bar aboutwith a
> bit more gusto, which is fun.lines
> A bar is easier for line management. You can figure-8 wrap the
> a bar much faster than wrapping around handles. Also easier tounwind the
> lines as the figure-8 wrap does not put twist into the lines whichmakes
> line-overs a little more difficult to undo. If you do twist thelines it's
> easier to spin the bar to unwrap them. Handles are more likely tohook up
> on or pass through each other. It's also good to just grab the endof your
> foil and roll the kite around a bar.two
> It's much easier to hang on to one bar with two hands rather than
> handles with one hand each.with
> You should have a safety leash with a bar. It's not so necessary
> handles because your hands are on the brakes all the time.thanks greg (and everyone else)
this is exactly the kind of info I wanted - not '20 reasons why
handles are great!' - if you read my original post you'd see I've
using handles for 2 years (and as I'm a student that's a lot of
flying!) and know all about them!
PS - sorry about posting the first message twice!
- As a beginner, I'm having trouble working hard to keep the kite in
the power zone while trying to balance on my board. Why not double
the length of the lines from 100 ft. to 200 ft.? Without getting too
technical - wouldn't this double the amount of time the kite stays
powered up? If I have enough beach and I'm willing to wrap up all
the extra line afterwards, why not? The only downside I can see
would be a little extra drag, but it looks worth it. Somebody please
shoot holes in this before I go spending $$$.
--- In firstname.lastname@example.org, KiteBoard@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 00-03-31 16:17:21 EST, theraves@...
> << Being underpowered is a horrible thing. Better to use a bigger
> The maneuverability-induced power IS nice to extend the lower end
> range when desperate, like getting back to the beach when it dies,
> out when it's light but you need a "fix".
> kiteboar-@... wrote:
> original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/kitesurf/?start=11977
> > In a message dated 3/31/00 8:56:04 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> > theraves@... writes:
> > << You can also work the kite much harder than a bar or 2-line set
> up, so
> > you can potentially get more power out of the kite (all other
> > equal). This is a kind of antidote to long lines for low wind
> > 2-liners have never experinced (nor have the 4-line sled folks,
> > just control power). >>
> > The 4-line sleds are MUCH more maneuverable than the 2-lines.
> OK, can't disagree, never flew one so it was supposition on my
> Sounds like a good thing!
> > Extra
> > maneuverability helps ONLY if you're underpowered, whether from
> 4-lining a
> > sled, or using handles on a foil.
> Absolutely agree, that's the point. Basically the long lines are
> helping in underpowered situations by letting the kite spend more
> in The Zone. A similar result can be effected by keeping the kite
> moving fast with high maneuverability. Being underpowered is a
> horrible thing. Better to use a bigger kite.
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- Hi Greg and Saul
> Handles are the ultimate in control in marginal conditions. Nothing,except
> some of the hybrid bars (Advance or Windtools) will match theHandles give a flyer the most feedback in all conditions. Bars limit
> responsiveness of handles. In fully powered up conditions you really only
> need the responsiveness to avert near certain kite crashes.
respoiveness but increase leverage, so they "feel" very different, hence the
2 fan clubs!! :-))
Not really true once you have become accustomed to the power much less input
is needed when powered up, basically the kite is parked slightly sine waving
>Control with a bar is more than adequate in all conditions IMO :-) but I am
> If you're powered up control is more than adequate with a bar. Landing is
> just as easy with a 3 or 4-line bar. Launching can be more difficult
> because you can't brake a tip if the kite tries to surge and roll over. A
> bar probably insulates the kite from some extreme pilot movement. Handle
> movements can be quite subtle whereas you can fling the bar about with a
> bit more gusto, which is fun.
addicted to handles!
> A bar is easier for line management. You can figure-8 wrap the lines
> a bar much faster than wrapping around handles. Also easier to unwind theLine managemant is a matter of following procedures that work, I guarantee I
> lines as the figure-8 wrap does not put twist into the lines which makes
> line-overs a little more difficult to undo. If you do twist the lines it's
> easier to spin the bar to unwrap them. Handles are more likely to hook up
> on or pass through each other. It's also good to just grab the end of your
> foil and roll the kite around a bar.
can wind up my lines onto my handles and unwind again with no twists or
tangles as quick as anyone with a bar. There is no need to figure 8 on a bar
if you always hold the same one end of your bar when wrapping and
And I always wrap my line to about 2 M from the knots at the kite end and
then fold one end of my foil in and wrap the whole lot up like it was fish
>Is it? I think this is a very subjective thing and is one of the main
> It's much easier to hang on to one bar with two hands rather than two
> handles with one hand each.
differences that people can identify easily. When I fly using handles and a
Peter Lynn backstrap I actually have 2 hands free at all times to assist
getting my board sorted etc. I fly the kite with my shoulders only.
>Safety leashes should be used on all kites, especially when beggining, they
> You should have a safety leash with a bar. It's not so necessary with
> handles because your hands are on the brakes all the time.
are very easy to make yourself. Hope this helps cya and
- Dave Raue wrote:
>I disagree. I fly my XXXL on 170 foot of line, 4 line mode. Works
> With 200 feet you're going to either get so much
> drag that the brakes are always on OR your brake lines will need to be so
> slack that they won't work anyway. So it's NOT worth it, at least with 4
I got plenty of slack in the brakes, and I can work the brakes just
Long lines give you plenty of room for error, and since I fly kites
that aren't water relaunchable, that's important for me. Long lines
do make jumps harder, especially in low wind range for the kite.
Steve Bateman geokite at excite dot com