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[ksurf] Re: 4-line bar

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  • Greg.Walsh@dhs.vic.gov.au
    Handles are the ultimate in control in marginal conditions. Nothing, except some of the hybrid bars (Advance or Windtools) will match the responsiveness of
    Message 1 of 11 , Apr 2, 2000
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      Handles are the ultimate in control in marginal conditions. Nothing, except
      some of the hybrid bars (Advance or Windtools) will match the
      responsiveness of handles. In fully powered up conditions you really only
      need the responsiveness to avert near certain kite crashes.

      If you're powered up control is more than adequate with a bar. Landing is
      just as easy with a 3 or 4-line bar. Launching can be more difficult
      because you can't brake a tip if the kite tries to surge and roll over. A
      bar probably insulates the kite from some extreme pilot movement. Handle
      movements can be quite subtle whereas you can fling the bar about with a
      bit more gusto, which is fun.

      A bar is easier for line management. You can figure-8 wrap the lines across
      a bar much faster than wrapping around handles. Also easier to unwind the
      lines as the figure-8 wrap does not put twist into the lines which makes
      line-overs a little more difficult to undo. If you do twist the lines it's
      easier to spin the bar to unwrap them. Handles are more likely to hook up
      on or pass through each other. It's also good to just grab the end of your
      foil and roll the kite around a bar.

      It's much easier to hang on to one bar with two hands rather than two
      handles with one hand each.

      You should have a safety leash with a bar. It's not so necessary with
      handles because your hands are on the brakes all the time.

      Greg
    • Saul Davies
      ... Landing is ... over. A ... Handle ... with a ... lines across ... unwind the ... makes ... lines it s ... hook up ... of your ... two ... with ... thanks
      Message 2 of 11 , Apr 3, 2000
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        > If you're powered up control is more than adequate with a bar.
        Landing is
        > just as easy with a 3 or 4-line bar. Launching can be more difficult
        > because you can't brake a tip if the kite tries to surge and roll
        over. A
        > bar probably insulates the kite from some extreme pilot movement.
        Handle
        > movements can be quite subtle whereas you can fling the bar about
        with a
        > bit more gusto, which is fun.
        >
        > A bar is easier for line management. You can figure-8 wrap the
        lines
        across
        > a bar much faster than wrapping around handles. Also easier to
        unwind the
        > lines as the figure-8 wrap does not put twist into the lines which
        makes
        > line-overs a little more difficult to undo. If you do twist the
        lines it's
        > easier to spin the bar to unwrap them. Handles are more likely to
        hook up
        > on or pass through each other. It's also good to just grab the end
        of your
        > foil and roll the kite around a bar.
        >
        > It's much easier to hang on to one bar with two hands rather than
        two
        > handles with one hand each.
        >
        > You should have a safety leash with a bar. It's not so necessary
        with
        > handles because your hands are on the brakes all the time.
        >
        thanks greg (and everyone else)

        this is exactly the kind of info I wanted - not '20 reasons why
        handles are great!' - if you read my original post you'd see I've
        been
        using handles for 2 years (and as I'm a student that's a lot of
        flying!) and know all about them!

        Cheers

        Saul

        PS - sorry about posting the first message twice!
      • Eric Savener
        As a beginner, I m having trouble working hard to keep the kite in the power zone while trying to balance on my board. Why not double the length of the lines
        Message 3 of 11 , Apr 3, 2000
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          As a beginner, I'm having trouble working hard to keep the kite in
          the power zone while trying to balance on my board. Why not double
          the length of the lines from 100 ft. to 200 ft.? Without getting too
          technical - wouldn't this double the amount of time the kite stays
          powered up? If I have enough beach and I'm willing to wrap up all
          the extra line afterwards, why not? The only downside I can see
          would be a little extra drag, but it looks worth it. Somebody please
          shoot holes in this before I go spending $$$.

          Eric


          --- In kitesurf@egroups.com, KiteBoard@a... wrote:
          > In a message dated 00-03-31 16:17:21 EST, theraves@...
          writes:
          >
          > << Being underpowered is a horrible thing. Better to use a bigger
          kite. >>
          >
          > Exactly.
          >
          > The maneuverability-induced power IS nice to extend the lower end
          of
          the wind
          > range when desperate, like getting back to the beach when it dies,
          or going
          > out when it's light but you need a "fix".
          >
          > Mel
          >
          >
          > kiteboar-@... wrote:
          > original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/kitesurf/?start=11977
          > > In a message dated 3/31/00 8:56:04 AM Pacific Standard Time,
          > > theraves@... writes:
          > >
          > > << You can also work the kite much harder than a bar or 2-line set
          > up, so
          > > you can potentially get more power out of the kite (all other
          things
          > > equal). This is a kind of antidote to long lines for low wind
          that
          > the
          > > 2-liners have never experinced (nor have the 4-line sled folks,
          they
          > > just control power). >>
          > >
          > > The 4-line sleds are MUCH more maneuverable than the 2-lines.
          >
          > OK, can't disagree, never flew one so it was supposition on my
          part.
          > Sounds like a good thing!
          >
          > > Extra
          > > maneuverability helps ONLY if you're underpowered, whether from
          > 4-lining a
          > > sled, or using handles on a foil.
          >
          > Absolutely agree, that's the point. Basically the long lines are
          > helping in underpowered situations by letting the kite spend more
          time
          > in The Zone. A similar result can be effected by keeping the kite
          > moving fast with high maneuverability. Being underpowered is a
          > horrible thing. Better to use a bigger kite.
          >
          >
          >
          >
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        • Stephen McCormack
          Hi Greg and Saul ... except ... Handles give a flyer the most feedback in all conditions. Bars limit respoiveness but increase leverage, so they feel very
          Message 4 of 11 , Apr 3, 2000
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            Hi Greg and Saul



            > Handles are the ultimate in control in marginal conditions. Nothing,
            except
            > some of the hybrid bars (Advance or Windtools) will match the
            > responsiveness of handles. In fully powered up conditions you really only
            > need the responsiveness to avert near certain kite crashes.

            Handles give a flyer the most feedback in all conditions. Bars limit
            respoiveness but increase leverage, so they "feel" very different, hence the
            2 fan clubs!! :-))
            Not really true once you have become accustomed to the power much less input
            is needed when powered up, basically the kite is parked slightly sine waving
            perhaps.


            >
            > If you're powered up control is more than adequate with a bar. Landing is
            > just as easy with a 3 or 4-line bar. Launching can be more difficult
            > because you can't brake a tip if the kite tries to surge and roll over. A
            > bar probably insulates the kite from some extreme pilot movement. Handle
            > movements can be quite subtle whereas you can fling the bar about with a
            > bit more gusto, which is fun.

            Control with a bar is more than adequate in all conditions IMO :-) but I am
            addicted to handles!


            >
            > A bar is easier for line management. You can figure-8 wrap the lines
            across
            > a bar much faster than wrapping around handles. Also easier to unwind the
            > lines as the figure-8 wrap does not put twist into the lines which makes
            > line-overs a little more difficult to undo. If you do twist the lines it's
            > easier to spin the bar to unwrap them. Handles are more likely to hook up
            > on or pass through each other. It's also good to just grab the end of your
            > foil and roll the kite around a bar.

            Line managemant is a matter of following procedures that work, I guarantee I
            can wind up my lines onto my handles and unwind again with no twists or
            tangles as quick as anyone with a bar. There is no need to figure 8 on a bar
            if you always hold the same one end of your bar when wrapping and
            unwrapping.
            And I always wrap my line to about 2 M from the knots at the kite end and
            then fold one end of my foil in and wrap the whole lot up like it was fish
            and chips.


            >
            > It's much easier to hang on to one bar with two hands rather than two
            > handles with one hand each.

            Is it? I think this is a very subjective thing and is one of the main
            differences that people can identify easily. When I fly using handles and a
            Peter Lynn backstrap I actually have 2 hands free at all times to assist
            getting my board sorted etc. I fly the kite with my shoulders only.

            >
            > You should have a safety leash with a bar. It's not so necessary with
            > handles because your hands are on the brakes all the time.

            Safety leashes should be used on all kites, especially when beggining, they
            are very easy to make yourself. Hope this helps cya and
            Goodwinds
            Steve McCormack
            www.kitepoweraustralia.com
            kitepower@...
          • Steve Bateman
            ... I disagree. I fly my XXXL on 170 foot of line, 4 line mode. Works fine. I got plenty of slack in the brakes, and I can work the brakes just fine. Long
            Message 5 of 11 , Apr 4, 2000
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              Dave Raue wrote:
              >
              > With 200 feet you're going to either get so much
              > drag that the brakes are always on OR your brake lines will need to be so
              > slack that they won't work anyway. So it's NOT worth it, at least with 4
              > lines.

              I disagree. I fly my XXXL on 170 foot of line, 4 line mode. Works
              fine.
              I got plenty of slack in the brakes, and I can work the brakes just
              fine.

              Long lines give you plenty of room for error, and since I fly kites
              that aren't water relaunchable, that's important for me. Long lines
              do make jumps harder, especially in low wind range for the kite.

              --
              Steve Bateman geokite at excite dot com
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