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[ksurf] Re: 4-line bar

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  • Dr. Stan Schiller
    The Io bar is really hot for the 4-line foils, have not used the bar for the C-quad.....But I use Io bar on all my foils, Mos Pro, Advance IO, Concept
    Message 1 of 11 , Mar 28, 2000
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      The Io bar is really hot for the 4-line foils, have not used the bar for
      the C-quad.....But I use Io bar on all my foils, Mos Pro, Advance IO,
      Concept Air,....And they all pivot very fAST AS A RESULT...THATS RIGHT I
      extract more speed Out of my foil, using a bar with Independent braking
      action!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      Stan
    • Greg.Walsh@dhs.vic.gov.au
      Handles are the ultimate in control in marginal conditions. Nothing, except some of the hybrid bars (Advance or Windtools) will match the responsiveness of
      Message 2 of 11 , Apr 2, 2000
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        Handles are the ultimate in control in marginal conditions. Nothing, except
        some of the hybrid bars (Advance or Windtools) will match the
        responsiveness of handles. In fully powered up conditions you really only
        need the responsiveness to avert near certain kite crashes.

        If you're powered up control is more than adequate with a bar. Landing is
        just as easy with a 3 or 4-line bar. Launching can be more difficult
        because you can't brake a tip if the kite tries to surge and roll over. A
        bar probably insulates the kite from some extreme pilot movement. Handle
        movements can be quite subtle whereas you can fling the bar about with a
        bit more gusto, which is fun.

        A bar is easier for line management. You can figure-8 wrap the lines across
        a bar much faster than wrapping around handles. Also easier to unwind the
        lines as the figure-8 wrap does not put twist into the lines which makes
        line-overs a little more difficult to undo. If you do twist the lines it's
        easier to spin the bar to unwrap them. Handles are more likely to hook up
        on or pass through each other. It's also good to just grab the end of your
        foil and roll the kite around a bar.

        It's much easier to hang on to one bar with two hands rather than two
        handles with one hand each.

        You should have a safety leash with a bar. It's not so necessary with
        handles because your hands are on the brakes all the time.

        Greg
      • Saul Davies
        ... Landing is ... over. A ... Handle ... with a ... lines across ... unwind the ... makes ... lines it s ... hook up ... of your ... two ... with ... thanks
        Message 3 of 11 , Apr 3, 2000
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          > If you're powered up control is more than adequate with a bar.
          Landing is
          > just as easy with a 3 or 4-line bar. Launching can be more difficult
          > because you can't brake a tip if the kite tries to surge and roll
          over. A
          > bar probably insulates the kite from some extreme pilot movement.
          Handle
          > movements can be quite subtle whereas you can fling the bar about
          with a
          > bit more gusto, which is fun.
          >
          > A bar is easier for line management. You can figure-8 wrap the
          lines
          across
          > a bar much faster than wrapping around handles. Also easier to
          unwind the
          > lines as the figure-8 wrap does not put twist into the lines which
          makes
          > line-overs a little more difficult to undo. If you do twist the
          lines it's
          > easier to spin the bar to unwrap them. Handles are more likely to
          hook up
          > on or pass through each other. It's also good to just grab the end
          of your
          > foil and roll the kite around a bar.
          >
          > It's much easier to hang on to one bar with two hands rather than
          two
          > handles with one hand each.
          >
          > You should have a safety leash with a bar. It's not so necessary
          with
          > handles because your hands are on the brakes all the time.
          >
          thanks greg (and everyone else)

          this is exactly the kind of info I wanted - not '20 reasons why
          handles are great!' - if you read my original post you'd see I've
          been
          using handles for 2 years (and as I'm a student that's a lot of
          flying!) and know all about them!

          Cheers

          Saul

          PS - sorry about posting the first message twice!
        • Eric Savener
          As a beginner, I m having trouble working hard to keep the kite in the power zone while trying to balance on my board. Why not double the length of the lines
          Message 4 of 11 , Apr 3, 2000
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            As a beginner, I'm having trouble working hard to keep the kite in
            the power zone while trying to balance on my board. Why not double
            the length of the lines from 100 ft. to 200 ft.? Without getting too
            technical - wouldn't this double the amount of time the kite stays
            powered up? If I have enough beach and I'm willing to wrap up all
            the extra line afterwards, why not? The only downside I can see
            would be a little extra drag, but it looks worth it. Somebody please
            shoot holes in this before I go spending $$$.

            Eric


            --- In kitesurf@egroups.com, KiteBoard@a... wrote:
            > In a message dated 00-03-31 16:17:21 EST, theraves@...
            writes:
            >
            > << Being underpowered is a horrible thing. Better to use a bigger
            kite. >>
            >
            > Exactly.
            >
            > The maneuverability-induced power IS nice to extend the lower end
            of
            the wind
            > range when desperate, like getting back to the beach when it dies,
            or going
            > out when it's light but you need a "fix".
            >
            > Mel
            >
            >
            > kiteboar-@... wrote:
            > original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/kitesurf/?start=11977
            > > In a message dated 3/31/00 8:56:04 AM Pacific Standard Time,
            > > theraves@... writes:
            > >
            > > << You can also work the kite much harder than a bar or 2-line set
            > up, so
            > > you can potentially get more power out of the kite (all other
            things
            > > equal). This is a kind of antidote to long lines for low wind
            that
            > the
            > > 2-liners have never experinced (nor have the 4-line sled folks,
            they
            > > just control power). >>
            > >
            > > The 4-line sleds are MUCH more maneuverable than the 2-lines.
            >
            > OK, can't disagree, never flew one so it was supposition on my
            part.
            > Sounds like a good thing!
            >
            > > Extra
            > > maneuverability helps ONLY if you're underpowered, whether from
            > 4-lining a
            > > sled, or using handles on a foil.
            >
            > Absolutely agree, that's the point. Basically the long lines are
            > helping in underpowered situations by letting the kite spend more
            time
            > in The Zone. A similar result can be effected by keeping the kite
            > moving fast with high maneuverability. Being underpowered is a
            > horrible thing. Better to use a bigger kite.
            >
            >
            >
            >
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          • Stephen McCormack
            Hi Greg and Saul ... except ... Handles give a flyer the most feedback in all conditions. Bars limit respoiveness but increase leverage, so they feel very
            Message 5 of 11 , Apr 3, 2000
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              Hi Greg and Saul



              > Handles are the ultimate in control in marginal conditions. Nothing,
              except
              > some of the hybrid bars (Advance or Windtools) will match the
              > responsiveness of handles. In fully powered up conditions you really only
              > need the responsiveness to avert near certain kite crashes.

              Handles give a flyer the most feedback in all conditions. Bars limit
              respoiveness but increase leverage, so they "feel" very different, hence the
              2 fan clubs!! :-))
              Not really true once you have become accustomed to the power much less input
              is needed when powered up, basically the kite is parked slightly sine waving
              perhaps.


              >
              > If you're powered up control is more than adequate with a bar. Landing is
              > just as easy with a 3 or 4-line bar. Launching can be more difficult
              > because you can't brake a tip if the kite tries to surge and roll over. A
              > bar probably insulates the kite from some extreme pilot movement. Handle
              > movements can be quite subtle whereas you can fling the bar about with a
              > bit more gusto, which is fun.

              Control with a bar is more than adequate in all conditions IMO :-) but I am
              addicted to handles!


              >
              > A bar is easier for line management. You can figure-8 wrap the lines
              across
              > a bar much faster than wrapping around handles. Also easier to unwind the
              > lines as the figure-8 wrap does not put twist into the lines which makes
              > line-overs a little more difficult to undo. If you do twist the lines it's
              > easier to spin the bar to unwrap them. Handles are more likely to hook up
              > on or pass through each other. It's also good to just grab the end of your
              > foil and roll the kite around a bar.

              Line managemant is a matter of following procedures that work, I guarantee I
              can wind up my lines onto my handles and unwind again with no twists or
              tangles as quick as anyone with a bar. There is no need to figure 8 on a bar
              if you always hold the same one end of your bar when wrapping and
              unwrapping.
              And I always wrap my line to about 2 M from the knots at the kite end and
              then fold one end of my foil in and wrap the whole lot up like it was fish
              and chips.


              >
              > It's much easier to hang on to one bar with two hands rather than two
              > handles with one hand each.

              Is it? I think this is a very subjective thing and is one of the main
              differences that people can identify easily. When I fly using handles and a
              Peter Lynn backstrap I actually have 2 hands free at all times to assist
              getting my board sorted etc. I fly the kite with my shoulders only.

              >
              > You should have a safety leash with a bar. It's not so necessary with
              > handles because your hands are on the brakes all the time.

              Safety leashes should be used on all kites, especially when beggining, they
              are very easy to make yourself. Hope this helps cya and
              Goodwinds
              Steve McCormack
              www.kitepoweraustralia.com
              kitepower@...
            • Steve Bateman
              ... I disagree. I fly my XXXL on 170 foot of line, 4 line mode. Works fine. I got plenty of slack in the brakes, and I can work the brakes just fine. Long
              Message 6 of 11 , Apr 4, 2000
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                Dave Raue wrote:
                >
                > With 200 feet you're going to either get so much
                > drag that the brakes are always on OR your brake lines will need to be so
                > slack that they won't work anyway. So it's NOT worth it, at least with 4
                > lines.

                I disagree. I fly my XXXL on 170 foot of line, 4 line mode. Works
                fine.
                I got plenty of slack in the brakes, and I can work the brakes just
                fine.

                Long lines give you plenty of room for error, and since I fly kites
                that aren't water relaunchable, that's important for me. Long lines
                do make jumps harder, especially in low wind range for the kite.

                --
                Steve Bateman geokite at excite dot com
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