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[ksurf] Re: Help me please!!!

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  • Paul Sexstone
    the cquads are now waterlaunchable, without reeling in, very sucessfully too. ... eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/kitesurf Free Web-based e-mail
    Message 1 of 22 , Jan 12, 1999
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      the cquads are now waterlaunchable, without reeling in, very sucessfully
      too.



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    • srosso@bunge.com.br
      has anyone heard of any successful attempts to make a quadline reel-in system ( I can imagine many of the problems with such a proposed system)? I have seen
      Message 2 of 22 , Jan 13, 1999
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        has anyone heard of any
        successful attempts to make a quadline reel-in system ( I can imagine many
        of the problems with such a proposed system)? I have seen pictures of what
        seem to be winders on individual quad handles - made by the irrepressible
        Peter Lynn (Did they work? What were the problems involved? - I wonder...).

        === Peter told me he made them, they worked well but they are expensive and
        a hassle to use so they preferred not to go into production - I imagine
        that this could change if they figures out a better system


        Could a reel in system be made to work with a Smartbar set-up?

        ==== THAT !! is what i would like !



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      • Raphaël
        I never tried Cory s system, so I cannot comment on it as well. I have however to agree that the reeling bar is extremely advantageous for all kites as you
        Message 3 of 22 , Jan 13, 1999
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          I never tried Cory's system, so I cannot comment on it as well. I have
          however to agree that the reeling bar is extremely advantageous for all
          kites as you mentioned, it allows you to start even in crowded zone (with
          people or trees).

          As for the rest, I agree that it will be a lot harder to control the Wipika
          than Cory's delta on landing as it does not depower as well.

          F-One, in this optic developed its own kites that are almost flat foils and
          do allow a better control.

          Raphael Baruch
          www.Kitesurf.com

          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: Eric Steinbroner [mailto:Eric.Steinbroner@...]
          > Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 1999 6:16 PM
          > To: 'kitesurf@egroups.com'
          > Subject: [ksurf] Re: Help me please!!!
          >
          >
          > Raphaël said:
          >
          > "However I have a few Wipika, they were the only kite up to now to allow a
          > high ratio of successfull water relaunch. As long as the wind is strong
          > enough, theyr are extremely easy. I could almost say a little bit to easy
          > eventually."
          >
          >
          >
          > Actually, the Kiteski kite with the control bar allows for relaunching as
          > well. In my opinion, a system like the Kiteski system is much
          > better than a
          > kite that is always powered up or pops off of the water. Here are my
          > reasons:
          >
          > 1) You can launch virtually anywhere. Where I go, about 200 windsurfers
          > and I walk down a concrete ramp and hop in the water. There are literally
          > thirty people all around me (in front, in back, to the sides). I lift the
          > kite out of the water, shake the water off, then let the lines
          > out above my
          > head. I have the kite tuned so that it stays above my head
          > without falling.
          > When I'm ready to go, I put the kite in the power zone and go.
          >
          > 2) You can de power whenever you need to by dropping the kite in
          > the water.
          > As it drops in the water, it lays flat on the water, therefore no power.
          > This is especially nice when coming back in. As I head to the
          > launch ramp I
          > look for about 30 Meters of area below me. As the kite hits the water I
          > start to reel in the line. It takes about 2 minutes. No need to
          > go chase a
          > kite along the beach.
          >
          > There are some downsides with the Kiteski kite. The biggest one
          > is that the
          > front spar is carbon and can hurt someone. I believe that the danger is
          > very small, and is smaller than the danger of runaway soft kites with the
          > lines possibly hurting someone. The other downside comes from landing the
          > kite in the surf.... potentially the spars can break. For me
          > this is not an
          > issue.
          >
          > I'd like to see more kites built that can "float" in the water, and
          > relaunched after reeling in.
          >
          > Eric
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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        • Raphaël
          I forgot to mentionned the interesting characteristics of the F-One (http://www.kitesurf.com/F-One/TheWings/thewings.htm) kite: They do not have any spars, it
          Message 4 of 22 , Jan 13, 1999
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            I forgot to mentionned the interesting characteristics of the F-One
            (http://www.kitesurf.com/F-One/TheWings/thewings.htm) kite:

            They do not have any spars, it is a soft foil.

            They do float (filled with air) in their flying configuration for about 5
            minutes before deflating.

            They do waterstart

            They can easilly depower and get used with a reeling bar that should be
            available soon.

            Raphael Baruch
            www.KiteSurf.com


            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: alex gillan [mailto:alex.gillan@...]
            > Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 1999 8:38 PM
            > To: kitesurf@egroups.com
            > Subject: [ksurf] Re: Help me please!!!
            >
            >
            > Hey Good point.
            >
            >
            >
            > I've knocked a few people off the beach when I come in to powered up
            >
            >
            >
            > ...Alex
            >
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: Eric Steinbroner <Eric.Steinbroner@...>
            > To: 'kitesurf@egroups.com' <kitesurf@egroups.com>
            > Date: Wednesday, 13 January 1999 10:07
            > Subject: [ksurf] Re: Help me please!!!
            >
            >
            > Raphaël said:
            >
            > "However I have a few Wipika, they were the only kite up to now to allow a
            > high ratio of successfull water relaunch. As long as the wind is strong
            > enough, theyr are extremely easy. I could almost say a little bit to easy
            > eventually."
            >
            >
            >
            > Actually, the Kiteski kite with the control bar allows for relaunching as
            > well. In my opinion, a system like the Kiteski system is much
            > better than a
            > kite that is always powered up or pops off of the water. Here are my
            > reasons:
            >
            > 1) You can launch virtually anywhere. Where I go, about 200 windsurfers
            > and I walk down a concrete ramp and hop in the water. There are literally
            > thirty people all around me (in front, in back, to the sides). I lift the
            > kite out of the water, shake the water off, then let the lines
            > out above my
            > head. I have the kite tuned so that it stays above my head
            > without falling.
            > When I'm ready to go, I put the kite in the power zone and go.
            >
            > 2) You can de power whenever you need to by dropping the kite in
            > the water.
            > As it drops in the water, it lays flat on the water, therefore no power.
            > This is especially nice when coming back in. As I head to the
            > launch ramp I
            > look for about 30 Meters of area below me. As the kite hits the water I
            > start to reel in the line. It takes about 2 minutes. No need to
            > go chase a
            > kite along the beach.
            >
            > There are some downsides with the Kiteski kite. The biggest one
            > is that the
            > front spar is carbon and can hurt someone. I believe that the danger is
            > very small, and is smaller than the danger of runaway soft kites with the
            > lines possibly hurting someone. The other downside comes from landing the
            > kite in the surf.... potentially the spars can break. For me
            > this is not an
            > issue.
            >
            > I'd like to see more kites built that can "float" in the water, and
            > relaunched after reeling in.
            >
            > Eric
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
            > HarmonyHouse.com gives you 20% off all CDs all the time!
            > HarmonyHouse.com has over 150,000 titles available right now!
            > So what are you waiting for? Check out
            > http://offers.egroups.com/click/175/0
            > Music is all we do.
            >
            >
            > eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/kitesurf
            > Free Web-based e-mail groups by eGroups.com
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
            >
            >
            > eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/kitesurf
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            >
            >
            >


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          • Steve Shapson
            Alex wrote: I ve knocked a few people off the beach when I come in to powered up Realllllllllllllllly Alex. Well, I suppose since you re so dangerous and can t
            Message 5 of 22 , Jan 13, 1999
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              Alex wrote: I've knocked a few people off the beach when I come in to
              powered up


              Realllllllllllllllly Alex. Well, I suppose since you're so dangerous and
              can't control your equipment or you sport, kitesurfing may soon be
              banned at more beaches.

              We've seen this happen on beaches where people kite buggy, so all you
              kitesurfers out there should get it together and realize that if people
              get hurt due to someone's inability to watch out for civilians, don't be
              mad when the sport doesn't grow.

              IT"S YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO WATCH OUT FOR ALL CIVILIANS.

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            • Cory Roeseler
              Paul, I ve been flying my modified Kiteski control bar as a 4 liner, this winter, but I don t see the big advantage for 4 line kites for the water application.
              Message 6 of 22 , Jan 13, 1999
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                Paul,

                I've been flying my modified Kiteski control bar as a 4 liner, this winter,
                but I don't see the big advantage for 4 line kites for the water
                application. It seems any benefit from improved maneuverability or trimming
                is negated by the complexity and added drag of the extra lines.

                Cory

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Debra Smith and Paul Watson <algen@...>
                To: kitesurf@egroups.com <kitesurf@egroups.com>
                Date: Tuesday, January 12, 1999 6:42 PM
                Subject: [ksurf] Re: Help me please!!!


                >Eric Steinbroner wrote,
                >>I'd like to see more kites built that can "float" in the water, and
                >>relaunched after reeling in.
                >
                >
                >
                >Perhaps this is not a bad point. Although (so far) unapproachable as an
                >'automatic' re-launch kite, the Wipika is not infallible. I have seen
                >Wipikas flown by experienced kite flyers (and ksurfers) crash and drown in
                >surf (not able to be presented to the wind for re-launch) - even in
                >sufficiently strong wind. I had tended to think of reel-in relaunch
                systems
                >as something of a clumsy anacronism untill this point (Perhaps this is
                >because I have not been fortunate enough to have tried a system such as the
                >Kiteski one!). However, I presently think that they will find their place
                in
                >the race to make ksurfing systems more userfriendly, consistent and
                >practicable.
                > The further development of the sport of ksurf will depend upon
                designing
                >even more consistency into our kite systems. I'm am inclined to think that
                a
                >sport cannot evolve around a single product (i.e. the Wipika). No matter
                how
                >good the product is (and the Wipika is superb - let there be no mistake
                >about this point!!), its limitations in crucial areas will not satisfy the
                >kitesurfing imagination.
                > Speaking of the kitesurfing imagination, has anyone heard of any
                >successful attempts to make a quadline reel-in system ( I can imagine many
                >of the problems with such a proposed system)? I have seen pictures of what
                >seem to be winders on individual quad handles - made by the irrepressible
                >Peter Lynn (Did they work? What were the problems involved? - I wonder...).
                >Could a reel in system be made to work with a Smartbar set-up? I'd love to
                >see a practical cure (apart from pilot skill - which is fallible!) for the
                >dreaded 'flat landing' which affects the otherwise cheap, extremely
                >efficient (beats parafoils by a considersble margin!!!), and powerful
                hybrid
                >style of kite - i.e. the Peter Lynn C-Quad.
                >
                >Smooth winds to all,
                >Paul Watson
                >
                >
                >
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              • Debra Smith and Paul Watson
                Cory, Thank you for the feed back on your efforts with reel-in quad lines. I have a few questions regarding your experiment: 1. How did you modify your Kiteski
                Message 7 of 22 , Jan 13, 1999
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                  Cory,

                  Thank you for the feed back on your efforts with reel-in quad lines. I have
                  a few questions regarding your experiment:
                  1. How did you modify your Kiteski bar? Were you using a minimally modified
                  straight bar? If so, where did you place the exit points for the respective
                  lines? (e.g. Did you have the brakes outboard of the main lines?)
                  3.You mentioned trimming capability. Did your set-up allow any pitch
                  control. I am imagining that your straight Kiteski bar (if you used it
                  without major modification) would not allow overall pitch variation (in any
                  manner that I can imagine!)
                  2. Did you have any/much trouble with differential wind-in? The brake lines
                  would be particularly sensitive to this problem, I imagine.

                  The reason for my interest in reel-in quadlines is that I think that this
                  system can potentially offer benefits for some kinds of kite which can
                  dramatically improve their relaunch capability. It sounds like your kite is
                  well optimised for dual line flight (simplicity is always a virtue, I
                  agree!) and the addition of brake lines would have all of the benefits of a
                  third wheel (I am a motorcyclist!). The sort of kite that such a system
                  would improve is the hybrid style of kite (such as the C-Quad) invented by
                  Peter Lynn and optimised for quad flight. The "Smartbar" that Lynn offers
                  allows the significant separation of pitch from roll/yaw bar movement (it is
                  not a straight bar). This allows reverse relaunching, inflight "depowering"
                  and useful pitch control (not to mention rapid turning). To my mind, the
                  addition of a practical winch system to such a bar would complete the
                  picture for this kind of kite.

                  Smooth Winds,

                  Paul Watson


                  Cory's Original Message:

                  >Paul,
                  >
                  >I've been flying my modified Kiteski control bar as a 4 liner, this winter,
                  >but I don't see the big advantage for 4 line kites for the water
                  >application. It seems any benefit from improved maneuverability or
                  trimming
                  >is negated by the complexity and added drag of the extra lines.
                  >
                  >Cory



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