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[ksurf] Re: Help me please!!!

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  • srosso@bunge.com.br
    === heres my 2 cents It seems to me that it is easier to kitesurf when the wind is at the top end of the scale rather than the bottom. Does anyone agree? ===
    Message 1 of 22 , Jan 11, 1999
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      === heres my 2 cents

      It seems to me that it
      is easier to kitesurf when the wind is at the top end of the scale
      rather than the bottom. Does anyone agree?
      === sure ! actually i would say the middle is the most comfortable - 20kts
      for a wipika 8.5 seems like a lot to me.

      1. I cannot go upwind yet. <snip>Any tips?
      Moving forward on the board does help a bit - just move the straps all the
      way forward and then you move the back foot to the middle of the board -
      its not stable but it helps. the 8.5 wipika needs about 13-15 kts to go
      upwind well (from mine and others experience) and you need to feel that you
      are really pushing with your legs - if you r legs dont hurt you are not
      going upwind.

      2. What is the best technique for a gybe turn? <SNIP> It is at this point I
      crash and burn.

      == Switch your feet fast ! if i remember correctly you are a surfer so you
      are not used to switvching your feet - you could practice on a surfboard !
      Its like when you learn to surf and you have to get up on the board in one
      smooth move - it has to become automatic.

      my best tip is to try and keep some power in the kite so it gives you some
      lift and holds you up and makes you more stable - I think it is probably
      easier for people that come from windsurfing as we have been practicing for
      years but it is (like in windsurfing) a psychological barrier - Its much
      easier than you think if you stop thinking about it



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    • Steve Shapson
      Ram air foils(kites) do work better for upwind, but they don t relaunch off the water. Foils are great for snow, grass or hard surfaces. However, I would like
      Message 2 of 22 , Jan 11, 1999
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        Ram air foils(kites) do work better for upwind, but they don't relaunch
        off the water. Foils are great for snow, grass or hard surfaces.
        However, I would like to hear from people about how easily you can
        relaunch the Wipika. I am considering this sail for water kiteskiing
        and kitesailing.

        Steve Shapson
        Force 10 Foils
        www.execpc.com/~force10

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      • Raphaël
        Contrarely to your belief, we actually are providing foils (kite) that are designed to be relaunched from the water, and they do work a lot better for upwind
        Message 3 of 22 , Jan 11, 1999
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          Contrarely to your belief, we actually are providing foils (kite) that are
          designed to be relaunched from the water, and they do work a lot better for
          upwind performance than a Wipika.

          However I have a few Wipika, they were the only kite up to now to allow a
          high ratio of successfull water relaunch. As long as the wind is strong
          enough, theyr are extremely easy. I could almost say a little bit to easy
          eventually.

          All you have to do is (on the water)to let it drift downwind then position
          it correctly so it will rest on its ear(??) and finally let it go upwind,
          gliding on the water surface until it reach the windows edge. It will then
          take off slowly.

          Raphael
          Raphael@...
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: Steve Shapson [mailto:force10@...]
          > Sent: Monday, January 11, 1999 6:37 PM
          > To: kitesurf@egroups.com
          > Subject: [ksurf] Re: Help me please!!!
          >
          >
          > Ram air foils(kites) do work better for upwind, but they don't relaunch
          > off the water. Foils are great for snow, grass or hard surfaces.
          > However, I would like to hear from people about how easily you can
          > relaunch the Wipika. I am considering this sail for water kiteskiing
          > and kitesailing.
          >
          > Steve Shapson
          > Force 10 Foils
          > www.execpc.com/~force10
          >
          > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
          > For the absolute lowest price on software visit:
          > http://www.bottomdollar.com/egroups/
          >
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          >
          >
          >


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        • Martin Rothwell
          ... Hi Steve! I find the Wipika will re-launch from water at least 80% of the time. It launches better the more wind there is and the 20% when it doesn t is
          Message 4 of 22 , Jan 12, 1999
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            Steve Shapson wrote:

            > I would like to hear from people about how easily you can
            > relaunch the Wipika. I am considering this sail for water kiteskiing
            > and kitesailing.

            Hi Steve!

            I find the Wipika will re-launch from water at least 80% of the time. It
            launches better the more wind there is and the 20% when it doesn't is when
            it's dumped in the shorebreak, swamped by water and/or not really enough
            wind to get it going again. I sailed at the weekend and it didn't hit the
            water once so no worries at all.

            Martin


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          • srosso@bunge.com.br
            JIBE : Same problem with 15 m lines its really difficult to jibe . Use 40 m . 1 Place the kite half way , between the water and the top . 2 Take you back foot
            Message 5 of 22 , Jan 12, 1999
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              JIBE :
              Same problem with 15 m lines its really difficult to jibe .
              Use 40 m .
              1 Place the kite half way , between the water and the top .
              2 Take you back foot out from back footstrap .


              AHA ! I forgot to tell you this martin - you have to take your back foor
              out of the strap before you start your jibe - you mentioned you kept your
              feet in the straps throughout the whole turn ! I imagine you have a hard
              time getting your feet out once you are twisted !

              sorry - this is something we windsurfers take for granted because you need
              the extra pressure on the inside rail !



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            • antoine carretero
              ... please raphael , can you explain us how you relauche the two lines kite ., sory with my experience i can undersdtand how you can restart a two lines
              Message 6 of 22 , Jan 12, 1999
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                ----------
                > De : Raphaël <Raphael@...> wrotte >
                >Contrarely to your belief, we actually are providing foils (kite) that are
                >designed to be relaunched from the water,.... >>>>>>

                please raphael , can you explain us how you relauche the two lines kite .,
                sory with my experience i can undersdtand how you can restart a two lines
                kite ( soft kites )
                when the front part is on the water ????

                do you think that it'll be more beter and more easy in 3 lines or 4 lines
                !!!!

                Antoine Carretero

                ADVANCE KITES Tethis and Janus . iO in april
                E mail : team-advance-kites@... 
                http://www.advance-kites.com





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              • Michel Montmigny
                ... Hello Steeve, Here Michel Montminy from CONCEPT AIR TRACTIONtm KITES. As you probably know, we do work very hard in developping soft kites for any purposes
                Message 7 of 22 , Jan 12, 1999
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                  Steve Shapson wrote:
                  >
                  > Ram air foils(kites) do work better for upwind, but they don't relaunch
                  > off the water. Foils are great for snow, grass or hard surfaces.
                  > However, I would like to hear from people about how easily you can
                  > relaunch the Wipika. I am considering this sail for water kiteskiing
                  > and kitesailing.
                  >
                  > Steve Shapson
                  > Force 10 Foils
                  > www.execpc.com/~force10
                  >
                  > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
                  > For the absolute lowest price on
                  > Software:
                  > CLICK HERE!
                  >
                  > eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/kitesurf
                  > Free Web-based e-mail groups by www.eGroups.com

                  Hello Steeve,

                  Here Michel Montminy from CONCEPT AIR TRACTIONtm KITES.

                  As you probably know, we do work very hard in developping soft kites for
                  any purposes that exist.

                  Since July 1998 we do have a waterstart kites (no balloon)that really
                  work very well.
                  And we also practice kitesurf since one year and we do have practice it
                  in any conditions.
                  And I can insure you that TRACTIONtm kites can be relaunched from water
                  at 70%. For sure the pilot has to control it perfectly but it's working.

                  We use both systems handles or bar to ride.
                  Handles in 4 lines give a better and faster control.
                  Bar is a lot smoothest.

                  I know that I dont answer to your question, but I fund it very important
                  to tell you that foils CAN relaunch from water.

                  Have very nice breeze

                  michel

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                • Martin Rothwell
                  ... No. I change line length depending on the wind strength. Why is it nearly impossible to go upwind with short lines? I thought that shorter lines would
                  Message 8 of 22 , Jan 12, 1999
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                    =?Windows-1252?B?UmFwaGHrbA==?= wrote:

                    > De : Raphaël Salles
                    > A : Martin Rothwell
                    >
                    > Are you always sailing with so short lines ?

                    No. I change line length depending on the wind strength. Why is it nearly
                    impossible to go upwind with short lines? I thought that shorter lines would
                    create less drag/resistance????

                    >From what you say it sounds like I need more lines. I will be trying this soon.

                    Many thanks

                    Martin





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                  • Martin Rothwell
                    Thanks for your help everyone. I have a clearer idea now and look forward to trying all your suggestions out this coming weekend. English weather permitting
                    Message 9 of 22 , Jan 12, 1999
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                      Thanks for your help everyone. I have a clearer idea now and look forward to
                      trying all your suggestions out this coming weekend. English weather
                      permitting that is!!!!

                      Martin.

                      srosso@... wrote:

                      > JIBE :
                      > Same problem with 15 m lines its really difficult to jibe .
                      > Use 40 m .
                      > 1 Place the kite half way , between the water and the top .
                      > 2 Take you back foot out from back footstrap .
                      >
                      > AHA ! I forgot to tell you this martin - you have to take your back foor
                      > out of the strap before you start your jibe - you mentioned you kept your
                      > feet in the straps throughout the whole turn ! I imagine you have a hard
                      > time getting your feet out once you are twisted !
                      >
                      > sorry - this is something we windsurfers take for granted because you need
                      > the extra pressure on the inside rail !
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      > eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/kitesurf
                      > Free Web-based e-mail groups by eGroups.com





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                    • alex gillan
                      G day Steve I ve got a WIPIKA 8.5 m and have had no trouble relaunching from water except once when the kite landed in a 3 foot shore break which filled the
                      Message 10 of 22 , Jan 12, 1999
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                        G'day Steve

                        I've got a WIPIKA 8.5 m and have had no trouble relaunching from water
                        except once when the kite landed in a 3 foot shore break which filled the
                        kite with water and sand.

                        100% success at un assisted relaunching away from the shore (which is where
                        it counts)

                        Alex Gillan

                        Australia.

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Michel Montmigny <traction@...>
                        To: kitesurf@egroups.com <kitesurf@egroups.com>
                        Date: Wednesday, 13 January 1999 1:03
                        Subject: [ksurf] Re: Help me please!!!


                        >Steve Shapson wrote:
                        >>
                        >> Ram air foils(kites) do work better for upwind, but they don't relaunch
                        >> off the water. Foils are great for snow, grass or hard surfaces.
                        >> However, I would like to hear from people about how easily you can
                        >> relaunch the Wipika. I am considering this sail for water kiteskiing
                        >> and kitesailing.
                        >>
                        >> Steve Shapson
                        >> Force 10 Foils
                        >> www.execpc.com/~force10
                        >>
                        >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
                        >> For the absolute lowest price on
                        >> Software:
                        >> CLICK HERE!
                        >>
                        >> eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/kitesurf
                        >> Free Web-based e-mail groups by www.eGroups.com
                        >
                        >Hello Steeve,
                        >
                        >Here Michel Montminy from CONCEPT AIR TRACTIONtm KITES.
                        >
                        >As you probably know, we do work very hard in developping soft kites for
                        >any purposes that exist.
                        >
                        >Since July 1998 we do have a waterstart kites (no balloon)that really
                        >work very well.
                        >And we also practice kitesurf since one year and we do have practice it
                        >in any conditions.
                        >And I can insure you that TRACTIONtm kites can be relaunched from water
                        >at 70%. For sure the pilot has to control it perfectly but it's working.
                        >
                        >We use both systems handles or bar to ride.
                        >Handles in 4 lines give a better and faster control.
                        >Bar is a lot smoothest.
                        >
                        >I know that I dont answer to your question, but I fund it very important
                        >to tell you that foils CAN relaunch from water.
                        >
                        >Have very nice breeze
                        >
                        >michel
                        >
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                        >http://www.bottomdollar.com/egroups/
                        >
                        >eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/kitesurf
                        >Free Web-based e-mail groups by eGroups.com
                        >


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                      • Eric Steinbroner
                        Raphaël said: However I have a few Wipika, they were the only kite up to now to allow a high ratio of successfull water relaunch. As long as the wind is
                        Message 11 of 22 , Jan 12, 1999
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                          Raphaël said:

                          "However I have a few Wipika, they were the only kite up to now to allow a
                          high ratio of successfull water relaunch. As long as the wind is strong
                          enough, theyr are extremely easy. I could almost say a little bit to easy
                          eventually."



                          Actually, the Kiteski kite with the control bar allows for relaunching as
                          well. In my opinion, a system like the Kiteski system is much better than a
                          kite that is always powered up or pops off of the water. Here are my
                          reasons:

                          1) You can launch virtually anywhere. Where I go, about 200 windsurfers
                          and I walk down a concrete ramp and hop in the water. There are literally
                          thirty people all around me (in front, in back, to the sides). I lift the
                          kite out of the water, shake the water off, then let the lines out above my
                          head. I have the kite tuned so that it stays above my head without falling.
                          When I'm ready to go, I put the kite in the power zone and go.

                          2) You can de power whenever you need to by dropping the kite in the water.
                          As it drops in the water, it lays flat on the water, therefore no power.
                          This is especially nice when coming back in. As I head to the launch ramp I
                          look for about 30 Meters of area below me. As the kite hits the water I
                          start to reel in the line. It takes about 2 minutes. No need to go chase a
                          kite along the beach.

                          There are some downsides with the Kiteski kite. The biggest one is that the
                          front spar is carbon and can hurt someone. I believe that the danger is
                          very small, and is smaller than the danger of runaway soft kites with the
                          lines possibly hurting someone. The other downside comes from landing the
                          kite in the surf.... potentially the spars can break. For me this is not an
                          issue.

                          I'd like to see more kites built that can "float" in the water, and
                          relaunched after reeling in.

                          Eric



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                        • alex gillan
                          Hey Good point. I ve knocked a few people off the beach when I come in to powered up ... From: Eric Steinbroner To:
                          Message 12 of 22 , Jan 12, 1999
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                            Hey Good point.



                            I've knocked a few people off the beach when I come in to powered up



                            ...Alex


                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Eric Steinbroner <Eric.Steinbroner@...>
                            To: 'kitesurf@egroups.com' <kitesurf@egroups.com>
                            Date: Wednesday, 13 January 1999 10:07
                            Subject: [ksurf] Re: Help me please!!!


                            Raphaël said:

                            "However I have a few Wipika, they were the only kite up to now to allow a
                            high ratio of successfull water relaunch. As long as the wind is strong
                            enough, theyr are extremely easy. I could almost say a little bit to easy
                            eventually."



                            Actually, the Kiteski kite with the control bar allows for relaunching as
                            well. In my opinion, a system like the Kiteski system is much better than a
                            kite that is always powered up or pops off of the water. Here are my
                            reasons:

                            1) You can launch virtually anywhere. Where I go, about 200 windsurfers
                            and I walk down a concrete ramp and hop in the water. There are literally
                            thirty people all around me (in front, in back, to the sides). I lift the
                            kite out of the water, shake the water off, then let the lines out above my
                            head. I have the kite tuned so that it stays above my head without falling.
                            When I'm ready to go, I put the kite in the power zone and go.

                            2) You can de power whenever you need to by dropping the kite in the water.
                            As it drops in the water, it lays flat on the water, therefore no power.
                            This is especially nice when coming back in. As I head to the launch ramp I
                            look for about 30 Meters of area below me. As the kite hits the water I
                            start to reel in the line. It takes about 2 minutes. No need to go chase a
                            kite along the beach.

                            There are some downsides with the Kiteski kite. The biggest one is that the
                            front spar is carbon and can hurt someone. I believe that the danger is
                            very small, and is smaller than the danger of runaway soft kites with the
                            lines possibly hurting someone. The other downside comes from landing the
                            kite in the surf.... potentially the spars can break. For me this is not an
                            issue.

                            I'd like to see more kites built that can "float" in the water, and
                            relaunched after reeling in.

                            Eric



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                          • Debra Smith and Paul Watson
                            Eric Steinbroner wrote, ... Perhaps this is not a bad point. Although (so far) unapproachable as an automatic re-launch kite, the Wipika is not infallible. I
                            Message 13 of 22 , Jan 12, 1999
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                              Eric Steinbroner wrote,
                              >I'd like to see more kites built that can "float" in the water, and
                              >relaunched after reeling in.



                              Perhaps this is not a bad point. Although (so far) unapproachable as an
                              'automatic' re-launch kite, the Wipika is not infallible. I have seen
                              Wipikas flown by experienced kite flyers (and ksurfers) crash and drown in
                              surf (not able to be presented to the wind for re-launch) - even in
                              sufficiently strong wind. I had tended to think of reel-in relaunch systems
                              as something of a clumsy anacronism untill this point (Perhaps this is
                              because I have not been fortunate enough to have tried a system such as the
                              Kiteski one!). However, I presently think that they will find their place in
                              the race to make ksurfing systems more userfriendly, consistent and
                              practicable.
                              The further development of the sport of ksurf will depend upon designing
                              even more consistency into our kite systems. I'm am inclined to think that a
                              sport cannot evolve around a single product (i.e. the Wipika). No matter how
                              good the product is (and the Wipika is superb - let there be no mistake
                              about this point!!), its limitations in crucial areas will not satisfy the
                              kitesurfing imagination.
                              Speaking of the kitesurfing imagination, has anyone heard of any
                              successful attempts to make a quadline reel-in system ( I can imagine many
                              of the problems with such a proposed system)? I have seen pictures of what
                              seem to be winders on individual quad handles - made by the irrepressible
                              Peter Lynn (Did they work? What were the problems involved? - I wonder...).
                              Could a reel in system be made to work with a Smartbar set-up? I'd love to
                              see a practical cure (apart from pilot skill - which is fallible!) for the
                              dreaded 'flat landing' which affects the otherwise cheap, extremely
                              efficient (beats parafoils by a considersble margin!!!), and powerful hybrid
                              style of kite - i.e. the Peter Lynn C-Quad.

                              Smooth winds to all,
                              Paul Watson



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                            • Paul Sexstone
                              the cquads are now waterlaunchable, without reeling in, very sucessfully too. ... eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/kitesurf Free Web-based e-mail
                              Message 14 of 22 , Jan 12, 1999
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                                the cquads are now waterlaunchable, without reeling in, very sucessfully
                                too.



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                              • srosso@bunge.com.br
                                has anyone heard of any successful attempts to make a quadline reel-in system ( I can imagine many of the problems with such a proposed system)? I have seen
                                Message 15 of 22 , Jan 13, 1999
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                                  has anyone heard of any
                                  successful attempts to make a quadline reel-in system ( I can imagine many
                                  of the problems with such a proposed system)? I have seen pictures of what
                                  seem to be winders on individual quad handles - made by the irrepressible
                                  Peter Lynn (Did they work? What were the problems involved? - I wonder...).

                                  === Peter told me he made them, they worked well but they are expensive and
                                  a hassle to use so they preferred not to go into production - I imagine
                                  that this could change if they figures out a better system


                                  Could a reel in system be made to work with a Smartbar set-up?

                                  ==== THAT !! is what i would like !



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                                • Raphaël
                                  I never tried Cory s system, so I cannot comment on it as well. I have however to agree that the reeling bar is extremely advantageous for all kites as you
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Jan 13, 1999
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                                    I never tried Cory's system, so I cannot comment on it as well. I have
                                    however to agree that the reeling bar is extremely advantageous for all
                                    kites as you mentioned, it allows you to start even in crowded zone (with
                                    people or trees).

                                    As for the rest, I agree that it will be a lot harder to control the Wipika
                                    than Cory's delta on landing as it does not depower as well.

                                    F-One, in this optic developed its own kites that are almost flat foils and
                                    do allow a better control.

                                    Raphael Baruch
                                    www.Kitesurf.com

                                    > -----Original Message-----
                                    > From: Eric Steinbroner [mailto:Eric.Steinbroner@...]
                                    > Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 1999 6:16 PM
                                    > To: 'kitesurf@egroups.com'
                                    > Subject: [ksurf] Re: Help me please!!!
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Raphaël said:
                                    >
                                    > "However I have a few Wipika, they were the only kite up to now to allow a
                                    > high ratio of successfull water relaunch. As long as the wind is strong
                                    > enough, theyr are extremely easy. I could almost say a little bit to easy
                                    > eventually."
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Actually, the Kiteski kite with the control bar allows for relaunching as
                                    > well. In my opinion, a system like the Kiteski system is much
                                    > better than a
                                    > kite that is always powered up or pops off of the water. Here are my
                                    > reasons:
                                    >
                                    > 1) You can launch virtually anywhere. Where I go, about 200 windsurfers
                                    > and I walk down a concrete ramp and hop in the water. There are literally
                                    > thirty people all around me (in front, in back, to the sides). I lift the
                                    > kite out of the water, shake the water off, then let the lines
                                    > out above my
                                    > head. I have the kite tuned so that it stays above my head
                                    > without falling.
                                    > When I'm ready to go, I put the kite in the power zone and go.
                                    >
                                    > 2) You can de power whenever you need to by dropping the kite in
                                    > the water.
                                    > As it drops in the water, it lays flat on the water, therefore no power.
                                    > This is especially nice when coming back in. As I head to the
                                    > launch ramp I
                                    > look for about 30 Meters of area below me. As the kite hits the water I
                                    > start to reel in the line. It takes about 2 minutes. No need to
                                    > go chase a
                                    > kite along the beach.
                                    >
                                    > There are some downsides with the Kiteski kite. The biggest one
                                    > is that the
                                    > front spar is carbon and can hurt someone. I believe that the danger is
                                    > very small, and is smaller than the danger of runaway soft kites with the
                                    > lines possibly hurting someone. The other downside comes from landing the
                                    > kite in the surf.... potentially the spars can break. For me
                                    > this is not an
                                    > issue.
                                    >
                                    > I'd like to see more kites built that can "float" in the water, and
                                    > relaunched after reeling in.
                                    >
                                    > Eric
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
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                                  • Raphaël
                                    I forgot to mentionned the interesting characteristics of the F-One (http://www.kitesurf.com/F-One/TheWings/thewings.htm) kite: They do not have any spars, it
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Jan 13, 1999
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                                      I forgot to mentionned the interesting characteristics of the F-One
                                      (http://www.kitesurf.com/F-One/TheWings/thewings.htm) kite:

                                      They do not have any spars, it is a soft foil.

                                      They do float (filled with air) in their flying configuration for about 5
                                      minutes before deflating.

                                      They do waterstart

                                      They can easilly depower and get used with a reeling bar that should be
                                      available soon.

                                      Raphael Baruch
                                      www.KiteSurf.com


                                      > -----Original Message-----
                                      > From: alex gillan [mailto:alex.gillan@...]
                                      > Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 1999 8:38 PM
                                      > To: kitesurf@egroups.com
                                      > Subject: [ksurf] Re: Help me please!!!
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Hey Good point.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > I've knocked a few people off the beach when I come in to powered up
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > ...Alex
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > -----Original Message-----
                                      > From: Eric Steinbroner <Eric.Steinbroner@...>
                                      > To: 'kitesurf@egroups.com' <kitesurf@egroups.com>
                                      > Date: Wednesday, 13 January 1999 10:07
                                      > Subject: [ksurf] Re: Help me please!!!
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Raphaël said:
                                      >
                                      > "However I have a few Wipika, they were the only kite up to now to allow a
                                      > high ratio of successfull water relaunch. As long as the wind is strong
                                      > enough, theyr are extremely easy. I could almost say a little bit to easy
                                      > eventually."
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Actually, the Kiteski kite with the control bar allows for relaunching as
                                      > well. In my opinion, a system like the Kiteski system is much
                                      > better than a
                                      > kite that is always powered up or pops off of the water. Here are my
                                      > reasons:
                                      >
                                      > 1) You can launch virtually anywhere. Where I go, about 200 windsurfers
                                      > and I walk down a concrete ramp and hop in the water. There are literally
                                      > thirty people all around me (in front, in back, to the sides). I lift the
                                      > kite out of the water, shake the water off, then let the lines
                                      > out above my
                                      > head. I have the kite tuned so that it stays above my head
                                      > without falling.
                                      > When I'm ready to go, I put the kite in the power zone and go.
                                      >
                                      > 2) You can de power whenever you need to by dropping the kite in
                                      > the water.
                                      > As it drops in the water, it lays flat on the water, therefore no power.
                                      > This is especially nice when coming back in. As I head to the
                                      > launch ramp I
                                      > look for about 30 Meters of area below me. As the kite hits the water I
                                      > start to reel in the line. It takes about 2 minutes. No need to
                                      > go chase a
                                      > kite along the beach.
                                      >
                                      > There are some downsides with the Kiteski kite. The biggest one
                                      > is that the
                                      > front spar is carbon and can hurt someone. I believe that the danger is
                                      > very small, and is smaller than the danger of runaway soft kites with the
                                      > lines possibly hurting someone. The other downside comes from landing the
                                      > kite in the surf.... potentially the spars can break. For me
                                      > this is not an
                                      > issue.
                                      >
                                      > I'd like to see more kites built that can "float" in the water, and
                                      > relaunched after reeling in.
                                      >
                                      > Eric
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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                                    • Steve Shapson
                                      Alex wrote: I ve knocked a few people off the beach when I come in to powered up Realllllllllllllllly Alex. Well, I suppose since you re so dangerous and can t
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Jan 13, 1999
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                                        Alex wrote: I've knocked a few people off the beach when I come in to
                                        powered up


                                        Realllllllllllllllly Alex. Well, I suppose since you're so dangerous and
                                        can't control your equipment or you sport, kitesurfing may soon be
                                        banned at more beaches.

                                        We've seen this happen on beaches where people kite buggy, so all you
                                        kitesurfers out there should get it together and realize that if people
                                        get hurt due to someone's inability to watch out for civilians, don't be
                                        mad when the sport doesn't grow.

                                        IT"S YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO WATCH OUT FOR ALL CIVILIANS.

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                                      • Cory Roeseler
                                        Paul, I ve been flying my modified Kiteski control bar as a 4 liner, this winter, but I don t see the big advantage for 4 line kites for the water application.
                                        Message 19 of 22 , Jan 13, 1999
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                                          Paul,

                                          I've been flying my modified Kiteski control bar as a 4 liner, this winter,
                                          but I don't see the big advantage for 4 line kites for the water
                                          application. It seems any benefit from improved maneuverability or trimming
                                          is negated by the complexity and added drag of the extra lines.

                                          Cory

                                          -----Original Message-----
                                          From: Debra Smith and Paul Watson <algen@...>
                                          To: kitesurf@egroups.com <kitesurf@egroups.com>
                                          Date: Tuesday, January 12, 1999 6:42 PM
                                          Subject: [ksurf] Re: Help me please!!!


                                          >Eric Steinbroner wrote,
                                          >>I'd like to see more kites built that can "float" in the water, and
                                          >>relaunched after reeling in.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >Perhaps this is not a bad point. Although (so far) unapproachable as an
                                          >'automatic' re-launch kite, the Wipika is not infallible. I have seen
                                          >Wipikas flown by experienced kite flyers (and ksurfers) crash and drown in
                                          >surf (not able to be presented to the wind for re-launch) - even in
                                          >sufficiently strong wind. I had tended to think of reel-in relaunch
                                          systems
                                          >as something of a clumsy anacronism untill this point (Perhaps this is
                                          >because I have not been fortunate enough to have tried a system such as the
                                          >Kiteski one!). However, I presently think that they will find their place
                                          in
                                          >the race to make ksurfing systems more userfriendly, consistent and
                                          >practicable.
                                          > The further development of the sport of ksurf will depend upon
                                          designing
                                          >even more consistency into our kite systems. I'm am inclined to think that
                                          a
                                          >sport cannot evolve around a single product (i.e. the Wipika). No matter
                                          how
                                          >good the product is (and the Wipika is superb - let there be no mistake
                                          >about this point!!), its limitations in crucial areas will not satisfy the
                                          >kitesurfing imagination.
                                          > Speaking of the kitesurfing imagination, has anyone heard of any
                                          >successful attempts to make a quadline reel-in system ( I can imagine many
                                          >of the problems with such a proposed system)? I have seen pictures of what
                                          >seem to be winders on individual quad handles - made by the irrepressible
                                          >Peter Lynn (Did they work? What were the problems involved? - I wonder...).
                                          >Could a reel in system be made to work with a Smartbar set-up? I'd love to
                                          >see a practical cure (apart from pilot skill - which is fallible!) for the
                                          >dreaded 'flat landing' which affects the otherwise cheap, extremely
                                          >efficient (beats parafoils by a considersble margin!!!), and powerful
                                          hybrid
                                          >style of kite - i.e. the Peter Lynn C-Quad.
                                          >
                                          >Smooth winds to all,
                                          >Paul Watson
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
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                                        • Debra Smith and Paul Watson
                                          Cory, Thank you for the feed back on your efforts with reel-in quad lines. I have a few questions regarding your experiment: 1. How did you modify your Kiteski
                                          Message 20 of 22 , Jan 13, 1999
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                                            Cory,

                                            Thank you for the feed back on your efforts with reel-in quad lines. I have
                                            a few questions regarding your experiment:
                                            1. How did you modify your Kiteski bar? Were you using a minimally modified
                                            straight bar? If so, where did you place the exit points for the respective
                                            lines? (e.g. Did you have the brakes outboard of the main lines?)
                                            3.You mentioned trimming capability. Did your set-up allow any pitch
                                            control. I am imagining that your straight Kiteski bar (if you used it
                                            without major modification) would not allow overall pitch variation (in any
                                            manner that I can imagine!)
                                            2. Did you have any/much trouble with differential wind-in? The brake lines
                                            would be particularly sensitive to this problem, I imagine.

                                            The reason for my interest in reel-in quadlines is that I think that this
                                            system can potentially offer benefits for some kinds of kite which can
                                            dramatically improve their relaunch capability. It sounds like your kite is
                                            well optimised for dual line flight (simplicity is always a virtue, I
                                            agree!) and the addition of brake lines would have all of the benefits of a
                                            third wheel (I am a motorcyclist!). The sort of kite that such a system
                                            would improve is the hybrid style of kite (such as the C-Quad) invented by
                                            Peter Lynn and optimised for quad flight. The "Smartbar" that Lynn offers
                                            allows the significant separation of pitch from roll/yaw bar movement (it is
                                            not a straight bar). This allows reverse relaunching, inflight "depowering"
                                            and useful pitch control (not to mention rapid turning). To my mind, the
                                            addition of a practical winch system to such a bar would complete the
                                            picture for this kind of kite.

                                            Smooth Winds,

                                            Paul Watson


                                            Cory's Original Message:

                                            >Paul,
                                            >
                                            >I've been flying my modified Kiteski control bar as a 4 liner, this winter,
                                            >but I don't see the big advantage for 4 line kites for the water
                                            >application. It seems any benefit from improved maneuverability or
                                            trimming
                                            >is negated by the complexity and added drag of the extra lines.
                                            >
                                            >Cory



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