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[ksurf] Re: Low Wind 7.5 Naish AR5 Report

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  • Todd Snyder
    what knot did you have the center lines on ? Stock! KiteBoard@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 00-02-29 12:28:11 EST, boomjib@earthlink.net writes:
    Message 1 of 18 , Feb 29, 2000
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      what knot did you have the center lines on ? Stock!
       
       

      KiteBoard@... wrote:

      In a message dated 00-02-29 12:28:11 EST, boomjib@... writes:

      << Did you have it in the stock setting? In that light of wind you could
       have moved the middle lines out an inch or so on the middle leader .This
       would have given you more power and made the kite more stable when hook
       in to the trim harness when on the beach. >>

      I've got it set so I have FULL AoA range, all the way from front lines slack
      (sagging back in the wind) to back lines slack.  At no one position did it
      feel like it would hover overhead without fairly regular input.  There could
      two factors here.  Maybe it only works above a certain minimum wind (your 25
      noted below) since 5-10 is actually much gustier than 25-40, &/or maybe I
      just got scared, not wanting to crash my brand new kite & take 10 minutes to
      wind in the lines, sand the tip, unwind the lines & launch again before
      hitting the water.  Then again, maybe it's just too darn gusty here (you've
      been here & know how it can be!).

      << I used the 5.5 on stock lines and leaders in very gusty winds 25 to
       35.While on the beach hooked onto the trim harness in the stronger gust
       the kite would just fly up luff a little drift back and then settle again
       .I never had to sheet in an out ,just hooked in and depowered all the way
       to the stopper knot.Until I was ready to go . >>

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    • Todd Snyder
      oops I forgot your hooking to your harness...... so the setup is a little different...... KiteBoard@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 00-02-29 12:28:11 EST,
      Message 2 of 18 , Feb 29, 2000
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        oops I forgot your hooking to your harness...... so the setup  is a little different......

        KiteBoard@... wrote:

        In a message dated 00-02-29 12:28:11 EST, boomjib@... writes:

        << Did you have it in the stock setting? In that light of wind you could
         have moved the middle lines out an inch or so on the middle leader .This
         would have given you more power and made the kite more stable when hook
         in to the trim harness when on the beach. >>

        I've got it set so I have FULL AoA range, all the way from front lines slack
        (sagging back in the wind) to back lines slack.  At no one position did it
        feel like it would hover overhead without fairly regular input.  There could
        two factors here.  Maybe it only works above a certain minimum wind (your 25
        noted below) since 5-10 is actually much gustier than 25-40, &/or maybe I
        just got scared, not wanting to crash my brand new kite & take 10 minutes to
        wind in the lines, sand the tip, unwind the lines & launch again before
        hitting the water.  Then again, maybe it's just too darn gusty here (you've
        been here & know how it can be!).

        << I used the 5.5 on stock lines and leaders in very gusty winds 25 to
         35.While on the beach hooked onto the trim harness in the stronger gust
         the kite would just fly up luff a little drift back and then settle again
         .I never had to sheet in an out ,just hooked in and depowered all the way
         to the stopper knot.Until I was ready to go . >>

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      • Todd Snyder
        I have let the 11.5 and the 5.5 luff up into the middle of the window while hooked in to the trim harness. It just flys up luffs and drifts back enough to
        Message 3 of 18 , Feb 29, 2000
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          I have let the 11.5 and the 5.5 luff up into the middle of the window while hooked in to the trim harness. It just flys up luffs and drifts back enough to where the wind catches it again. It never has turn under or folded , so far .Unlike my foils.

          What cleat system are you using for the middle line ? I want to make somthing where  I don't need the knote on the end of the middle leader . I want to be able to reach up and adjust it on the fly.

          How about a small pulley with the middle lines connected ,have the middle leader longer  running through the pulley back to bar with some sort of cleat.
           

          KiteBoard@... wrote:

          In a message dated 00-03-01 13:43:11 EST, boomjib@... writes:

          << what knot did you have the center lines on ? Stock! >>

          No, but that's irrelevant with an adjustment cleat.  As I mentioned, I tried
          it at every possible AoA setting, from front lines slack (max. AoA) to back
          lines slack (min. AoA).

          Again, it may have been to light/gusty (our typical 15-25 on the beach is a
          lot better than the 5-10 that day) or I may have been too "chicken" (SEEMED
          about to luff so I turned BEFORE it did, but maybe it wouldn't have).

          Mel

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        • Todd Snyder
          What about this? attachment! Can you get me the system there using over there and send it to me? I ll buy you one as well If I can get it to me guickly.
          Message 4 of 18 , Mar 1, 2000
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            What about this? attachment!

            Can you get me the system there using over there and send it to me? I
            'll buy you one as well If I can get it to me guickly.

            Thanks ,
            Todd

            Michael Kassal wrote:

            > Part 1.1 Type: Plain Text (text/plain)
            > Encoding: quoted-printable
          • Todd Snyder
            OOPS THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE PRIVATE....SORRY
            Message 5 of 18 , Mar 1, 2000
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              OOPS THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE PRIVATE....SORRY


              Todd Snyder wrote:

              > What about this? attachment!
              >
              > Can you get me the system there using over there and send it to me? I
              > 'll buy you one as well If I can get it to me guickly.
              >
              > Thanks ,
              > Todd
              >
              > Michael Kassal wrote:
              >
              > > Part 1.1 Type: Plain Text (text/plain)
              > > Encoding: quoted-printable
              >
              > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
              > The Kitesurf Group is sponsored by F-ONE Equipment
              >
              > Conceived and designed by Kitesurfers . . . To ride and fly longer and higher
              >
              > Visit http://www.kitesurf.com
              >
              > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
              > -- 20 megs of disk space in your group's Document Vault
              > -- http://www.egroups.com/docvault/kitesurf/?m=1
              >
              > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
              > Name: cleat system.jpg
              > cleat system.jpg Type: JPEG Image (image/jpeg)
              > Encoding: base64
            • Rainer Leuschke
              ... Hmmm, sounds like a high AR foil at TDC.... R! -- ,--+___. oOOOOOOo ,/ |
              Message 6 of 18 , Mar 1, 2000
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                On Wed, 1 Mar 2000 KiteBoard@... wrote:

                > I've got it set so I have FULL AoA range, all the way from front lines slack
                > (sagging back in the wind) to back lines slack. At no one position did it
                > feel like it would hover overhead without fairly regular input.

                Hmmm, sounds like a high AR foil at TDC....

                R!

                -- ,--+___. oOOOOOOo
                ,/ | \ / /
                ___ / | \. Rainer Leuschke / /
                __ / | \. phone: (w) 206-685-0900 / /
                __ / 14 |\ \ (h) 206-547-8927 / /
                | ~~ | \ \ / /
                | | \ \ / /
                | | \ \ Weight is only of use / /
                | | \ | in steamrollers. o /
                +--o o--| \ | - Uffa Fox 'U~
                .|_[]{ }_|------+======' )\
                M|_______________| -;---'
                U H
                U
              • KiteBoard@aol.com
                In a message dated 00-03-01 13:40:07 EST, rainer@u.washington.edu writes: ... slack ... Hmmm, sounds like a high AR foil at TDC... I should have mentioned
                Message 7 of 18 , Mar 1, 2000
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                  In a message dated 00-03-01 13:40:07 EST, rainer@... writes:

                  << On Wed, 1 Mar 2000 KiteBoard@... wrote:

                  > I've got it set so I have FULL AoA range, all the way from front lines
                  slack
                  > (sagging back in the wind) to back lines slack. At no one position did it
                  > feel like it would hover overhead without fairly regular input.

                  Hmmm, sounds like a high AR foil at TDC... >>

                  I should have mentioned that it was very gusty on the beach (as usual here)
                  and it felt no more unstable than my 2-line Naish, however its greater
                  maneuverability made it easier to manually prevent luffing (at top or edge).
                  I'd just expected it to require NO input with the right AoA setting. In the
                  steady winds on the hill where I first flew it, it was very stable hovering
                  overhead (as is my 2-line).

                  Mel
                • KiteBoard@aol.com
                  In a message dated 00-03-01 13:43:11 EST, boomjib@earthlink.net writes: No, but that s irrelevant
                  Message 8 of 18 , Mar 1, 2000
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                    In a message dated 00-03-01 13:43:11 EST, boomjib@... writes:

                    << what knot did you have the center lines on ? Stock! >>

                    No, but that's irrelevant with an adjustment cleat. As I mentioned, I tried
                    it at every possible AoA setting, from front lines slack (max. AoA) to back
                    lines slack (min. AoA).

                    Again, it may have been to light/gusty (our typical 15-25 on the beach is a
                    lot better than the 5-10 that day) or I may have been too "chicken" (SEEMED
                    about to luff so I turned BEFORE it did, but maybe it wouldn't have).

                    Mel
                  • Rainer Leuschke
                    ... Yep, just like a high AR foil. The more efficient the trickier in gusty winds. R! -- ,--+___. oOOOOOOo ,/
                    Message 9 of 18 , Mar 1, 2000
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                      On Wed, 1 Mar 2000 KiteBoard@... wrote:

                      > Hmmm, sounds like a high AR foil at TDC... >>
                      >
                      > I should have mentioned that it was very gusty on the beach (as usual here)
                      > and it felt no more unstable than my 2-line Naish, however its greater
                      > maneuverability made it easier to manually prevent luffing (at top or edge).
                      > I'd just expected it to require NO input with the right AoA setting. In the
                      > steady winds on the hill where I first flew it, it was very stable hovering
                      > overhead (as is my 2-line).

                      Yep, just like a high AR foil. The more efficient the trickier in gusty
                      winds.
                      R!

                      -- ,--+___. oOOOOOOo
                      ,/ | \ / /
                      ___ / | \. Rainer Leuschke / /
                      __ / | \. phone: (w) 206-685-0900 / /
                      __ / 14 |\ \ (h) 206-547-8927 / /
                      | ~~ | \ \ / /
                      | | \ \ / /
                      | | \ \ Weight is only of use / /
                      | | \ | in steamrollers. o /
                      +--o o--| \ | - Uffa Fox 'U~
                      .|_[]{ }_|------+======' )\
                      M|_______________| -;---'
                      U H
                      U
                    • KiteBoard@aol.com
                      In a message dated 3/1/00 10:59:02 AM Pacific Standard Time, rainer@u.washington.edu writes:
                      Message 10 of 18 , Mar 1, 2000
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                        In a message dated 3/1/00 10:59:02 AM Pacific Standard Time,
                        rainer@... writes:

                        << Yep, just like a high AR foil. The more efficient the trickier in gusty
                        winds. >>

                        I would have thought by reducing the efficiency (by lowering the AoA) it
                        would fly more like an inefficiently setup foil. Maybe it's just too
                        efficient even at it's minimum efficiency setting!

                        Mel
                      • Art Clark
                        clip.. What cleat system are you using for the middle line ? I want to make somthing where I don t need the knote on the end of the middle leader . I want to
                        Message 11 of 18 , Mar 1, 2000
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                          Re: [ksurf] Re: Low Wind 7.5 Naish AR5 Report
                          clip..

                          What cleat system are you using for the middle line ? I want to make somthing where  I don't need the knote on the end of the middle leader . I want to be able to reach up and adjust it on the fly.

                          How about a small pulley with the middle lines connected ,have the middle leader longer  running through the pulley back to bar with some sort of cleat.

                          There's some pics of one in the vault:
                          http://www.egroups.com/docvault/kitesurf/4%20line%20bar
                        • KiteBoard@aol.com
                          In a message dated 00-03-01 18:45:36 EST, boomjib@earthlink.net writes:
                          Message 12 of 18 , Mar 1, 2000
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                            In a message dated 00-03-01 18:45:36 EST, boomjib@... writes:

                            << I have let the 11.5 and the 5.5 luff up into the middle of the window while
                            hooked in to the trim harness. It just flys up luffs and drifts back enough
                            to where the wind catches it again. It never has turn under or folded ,
                            so far .Unlike my foils. >>

                            I crashed the 7.5 twice today on the beach, while messing with the middle
                            line trying to get the back lines tight enough for responsive steering
                            without too much power while attaching the boardleash & getting into the
                            water.

                            << How about a small pulley with the middle lines connected ,have the middle
                            leader longer; running through the pulley back to bar with some sort
                            of cleat. >>

                            That's similar to what's on the photo I found on the web (don't have address
                            here - it's at work - I found it by going back through the archives of the
                            list). It gives you a 3:1 purchase, which I think is overkill. You should
                            be okay with 2:1 or less. Apparently Ken uses a harness line buckle. Make
                            sure you use components with sufficient WORKING LOAD (some marine pulleys
                            have very high breaking strength, with working loads under 500 pounds).

                            Mel
                          • Todd Snyder
                            Why not just make an io bar. Big foils are easier to turn with the help of a little brake. Teds post earlier tells of how to make one cheap.Kingsley should be
                            Message 13 of 18 , Mar 1, 2000
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                              Why not just make an io bar. Big foils are easier to turn with the help of a little brake.
                              Teds post earlier tells of how to make one cheap.Kingsley should be able to tell you as well about three line conversions. My email is on the list.

                              Later,
                              Todd

                              paul menta wrote:

                              hey todd,i just bought a concept air 9.0 from kinsley,can i have your
                              e-mail,it comes four line with handles,i want to put it on a contol bar,3
                              line,i have the picture of the set up from the vault,but not sure how to run
                              the lines to the bar,your help would be great!..paul in key west
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: "Todd Snyder" <boomjib@...>
                              To: <kitesurf@egroups.com>
                              Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2000 12:36 PM
                              Subject: [ksurf] Re: Low Wind 7.5 Naish AR5 Report

                              > OOPS THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE PRIVATE....SORRY
                              >
                              >
                              > Todd Snyder wrote:
                              >
                              > > What about this?  attachment!
                              > >
                              > > Can you get me the system there using over there and send it to me?  I
                              > > 'll buy you one as well If I can get it to me guickly.
                              > >
                              > > Thanks ,
                              > > Todd
                              > >
                              > > Michael Kassal wrote:
                              > >
                              > > >    Part 1.1    Type: Plain Text (text/plain)
                              > > >            Encoding: quoted-printable
                              > >
                              > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              > > The Kitesurf Group is sponsored by F-ONE Equipment
                              > >
                              > > Conceived and designed by Kitesurfers . . . To ride and fly longer and
                              higher
                              > >
                              > > Visit http://www.kitesurf.com
                              > >
                              > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              > > -- 20 megs of disk space in your group's Document Vault
                              > > -- http://www.egroups.com/docvault/kitesurf/?m=1
                              > >
                              >
                                ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              > >                        Name: cleat system.jpg
                              > >    cleat system.jpg    Type: JPEG Image (image/jpeg)
                              > >                    Encoding: base64
                              >
                              >
                              > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              > The Kitesurf Group is sponsored by F-ONE Equipment
                              >
                              > Conceived and designed by Kitesurfers . . . To ride and fly longer and
                              higher
                              >
                              > Visit http://www.kitesurf.com
                              >
                              > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              > -- Talk to your group with your own voice!
                              > -- http://www.egroups.com/VoiceChatPage?listName=kitesurf&m=1
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                              >

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                              Conceived and designed by Kitesurfers . . . To ride and fly longer and higher

                              Visit http://www.kitesurf.com

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                            • Michael Kassal
                              Re: [ksurf] Re: Low Wind 7.5 Naish AR5 ReportThe adjustable cleat for the center line is arriving in a few weeks. Its a simple one handed adjustment. Was
                              Message 14 of 18 , Mar 1, 2000
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                                Re: [ksurf] Re: Low Wind 7.5 Naish AR5 Report
                                The adjustable cleat for the center line is arriving in a few weeks.  Its a simple one handed adjustment.  Was playing with it on the beach last week.  Its going to go for about 30 bucks.
                                 
                                For those curious, Robby is using it on page 20 of the latest issue of Kiteboarding mag.
                                 
                                The red strap is to release, the black one is to tighten.
                                 
                                -M
                              • paul menta
                                hey todd,i just bought a concept air 9.0 from kinsley,can i have your e-mail,it comes four line with handles,i want to put it on a contol bar,3 line,i have the
                                Message 15 of 18 , Mar 2, 2000
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  hey todd,i just bought a concept air 9.0 from kinsley,can i have your
                                  e-mail,it comes four line with handles,i want to put it on a contol bar,3
                                  line,i have the picture of the set up from the vault,but not sure how to run
                                  the lines to the bar,your help would be great!..paul in key west
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: "Todd Snyder" <boomjib@...>
                                  To: <kitesurf@egroups.com>
                                  Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2000 12:36 PM
                                  Subject: [ksurf] Re: Low Wind 7.5 Naish AR5 Report


                                  > OOPS THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE PRIVATE....SORRY
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Todd Snyder wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > What about this? attachment!
                                  > >
                                  > > Can you get me the system there using over there and send it to me? I
                                  > > 'll buy you one as well If I can get it to me guickly.
                                  > >
                                  > > Thanks ,
                                  > > Todd
                                  > >
                                  > > Michael Kassal wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > > Part 1.1 Type: Plain Text (text/plain)
                                  > > > Encoding: quoted-printable
                                  > >
                                  > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                  > > The Kitesurf Group is sponsored by F-ONE Equipment
                                  > >
                                  > > Conceived and designed by Kitesurfers . . . To ride and fly longer and
                                  higher
                                  > >
                                  > > Visit http://www.kitesurf.com
                                  > >
                                  > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                  > > -- 20 megs of disk space in your group's Document Vault
                                  > > -- http://www.egroups.com/docvault/kitesurf/?m=1
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                  > > Name: cleat system.jpg
                                  > > cleat system.jpg Type: JPEG Image (image/jpeg)
                                  > > Encoding: base64
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                  > The Kitesurf Group is sponsored by F-ONE Equipment
                                  >
                                  > Conceived and designed by Kitesurfers . . . To ride and fly longer and
                                  higher
                                  >
                                  > Visit http://www.kitesurf.com
                                  >
                                  > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                  > -- Talk to your group with your own voice!
                                  > -- http://www.egroups.com/VoiceChatPage?listName=kitesurf&m=1
                                  >
                                  >
                                • Dave Folkard
                                  Todd Did you check this one out: http://www.egroups.com/docvault/kitesurf/4%20line%20bar This was based on Ken Winners idea and works a treat. Dead simple to
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Mar 2, 2000
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                                    Todd
                                    Did you check this one out:
                                    http://www.egroups.com/docvault/kitesurf/4%20line%20bar

                                    This was based on Ken Winners idea and works a treat. Dead simple to make.

                                    Dave


                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: Todd Snyder <boomjib@...>
                                    To: <kitesurf@egroups.com>
                                    Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2000 9:36 AM
                                    Subject: [ksurf] Re: Low Wind 7.5 Naish AR5 Report


                                    > OOPS THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE PRIVATE....SORRY
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Todd Snyder wrote:
                                    >
                                    > > What about this? attachment!
                                    > >
                                    > > Can you get me the system there using over there and send it to me? I
                                    > > 'll buy you one as well If I can get it to me guickly.
                                    > >
                                    > > Thanks ,
                                    > > Todd
                                    > >
                                    > > Michael Kassal wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > > Part 1.1 Type: Plain Text (text/plain)
                                    > > > Encoding: quoted-printable
                                    > >
                                    > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                    > > The Kitesurf Group is sponsored by F-ONE Equipment
                                    > >
                                    > > Conceived and designed by Kitesurfers . . . To ride and fly longer and
                                    higher
                                    > >
                                    > > Visit http://www.kitesurf.com
                                    > >
                                    > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                    > > -- 20 megs of disk space in your group's Document Vault
                                    > > -- http://www.egroups.com/docvault/kitesurf/?m=1
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                    > > Name: cleat system.jpg
                                    > > cleat system.jpg Type: JPEG Image (image/jpeg)
                                    > > Encoding: base64
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                    > The Kitesurf Group is sponsored by F-ONE Equipment
                                    >
                                    > Conceived and designed by Kitesurfers . . . To ride and fly longer and
                                    higher
                                    >
                                    > Visit http://www.kitesurf.com
                                    >
                                    > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                    > -- Talk to your group with your own voice!
                                    > -- http://www.egroups.com/VoiceChatPage?listName=kitesurf&m=1
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
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