Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

research affecting Kinsella geneology

Expand Messages
  • Richard and Ann
    Hi folks, My name is Ann Finneran. Finnerans (O Finntighearn or add another h and agh if you really want to go Irish) are desended from the Ui Mella and Sil
    Message 1 of 1 , Jan 9 1:09 PM
      Hi folks,

      My name is Ann Finneran. Finnerans (O'Finntighearn or add another h and agh if you really want to go Irish) are desended from the Ui Mella and Sil Mella sub septs of the Sil Faelchan sept of the Kinsella clan. Ui Mella and Sil Mella refer to descendents of Queen Mell, wife to Crimthann Cass McEnna Chensealach. The McMorroughs are also members of those subsepts. (according to rootsweb and D. Walsh's extensive and valuable research).

      I have been researching the origins of the Finneran name, and came upon some information which I believe is factual and affects the information in the Kinsella geneology concerning the descendents of Crimthann and also might explain the source of the divergence to the Hi Bairrache clan, which became arch enemies of their Kinsella cousins. This information comes from "The Expulsion of the Deisi", a Welsh history. The preface of one translation expresses the desire to help clarify some Irish history, and I think indeed it may.

      Let's start with the immediate family, from Jim's Kinsella geneology:

      # Crimthann Cass: 3rd son of Eanna Cinnsealach; was King of Leinster for 40 years; baptized by St. Patrick at Rathvilly around 448; slain in 484 by his grandson Eochaidh Guinech of the Hy-Bairrche [Ui-Bairrche]. Married Mell, daughter of Erebran of the Desies in Munster ("son of Eoghan Bric, son of Art Cuirb, son of Fiacha Suighde, son of Felim Rachtmar"). Had following children:

      1. Ingen, wife of Daire MacErcadh of the Hy-Bairche
      2. Nathach (Dathi), who is described below
      3. Fiacra the Fair, made first bishop of Leinster by St.Patrick
      4. Eithne Uathach, wife of Aongus MacNadfraech, King of Munster
      5. Fergus, who defeated Diarmuid MacCearbhaill at Drum Laeghaire, by the side of Cais in Hy-Faelain, defending the Boromha Tribute
      6. Aongus
      7. Etchen
      8. Cobthach

      According to the "Expulsion of the Deisi" (which is off by dates), Crimthann married two of Mel's sisters after each died in turn, all Deisis. The second sister, Belc, was mother to Ingren (sp) who was mother to Crimthann's murdering grandson Eochaid Guinech (aka Eochu Guinech) of the Uí Bairrche. Yet another sister, Cinniu bore only one child, a daughter, Eithne Uatahach, (Ethne the Dread). From section 24 in the Expulsion: "The three daughters of Ernbrand: Mell and Belc and Cinniu were all three married to Crimthann, one after another. Fromn Mell are the SiT Mella*., from Belc the Hui Beilce**. Cinniu bore Ethne only to him." It is this reference to the marriage of Crimthann to Mel and then to her sisters in turn which is valuable to the related geneologies and to Irish history itself, and may help to resolve discrepancies between the related geneologies.

      I spoke to Jim Kinsella about 1 1/2 years ago, when I had more information. Now, of course, I cannot for the life of me locate an old fabulous almost european genome type geneology website which pulls everything together. I also cannot find reference to another family's geneology which claims Fiacra the Fair was the son of Ingren, allowing the Ui Bairrche lineage to claim the saint as their own.

      *Sil Mella
      ** The spellings are Welsh spellings; for instance, Hui Beilce equates with Uí Bairrche. Eochaid Guinech was not only the progenitor of the Uí Bairrche but, if the geneologies and the Expulsion are accurate, was Ethne the Dread's nephew and first cousin once removed on his mother's side. Ethne's husband Oengus (in Kinsella geneology it says King of Munster)was, according to the aforesaid european geneology, also son of the king of Britain.

      Please feel free to clarify or correct, but according to this information, Ingren and Ethne were daughters of Mell's two sisters, which makes sense to me, and it would make even more sense that Ingren would be ambitious for her son over her half brother/1st counsin's NathI's sons.

      I am trying to discern any possibility of a direct relationship between Fiacra the Fair and O'Finneran (son of the Fair Lord).

      Ann Finneran
    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.