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Re: [Kierkegaardians] Re: The eternal and the immaterial

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  • James Rovira
    I agree with your point of view on K s belief, Don. That s all I ve been saying all along. But if he assumes it in everything that he writes, as I have been
    Message 1 of 141 , Aug 14, 2009
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      I agree with your point of view on K's belief, Don. That's all I've
      been saying all along. But if he assumes it in everything that he
      writes, as I have been saying, he is assuming it to be a fact. It's
      just not a fact we can only appropriate subjectively.

      However, if I recall, K uses the word "fact" in relationship to the
      paradoxes of Religiousness B. That's how we're supposed to relate to
      doctrines such as the incarnation and resurrection. Faith leads us to
      accept them as a fact. These doctrines are beliefs about events that
      took place in the material world; as such, they either did or did not
      really happen.

      Jim R

      On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 2:00 AM, Donald Anderson<don@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > JimR, you asked:
      >
      > "Do you think K
      > believed that we create God out of nothing by believing in God, or do
      > you think he believed that God exists independently of our belief in
      > him?"
      >
      >
      >
      > I do not believe that K believed that we create God by believing in him and
      > I think that K believed that God is real independently of our belief. I
      > agree with K's belief. The key term in all of this is "believe." K does not
      > say that he knows this for a fact, however. He is not interested in proving
      > that God is real. He presupposes it in everything he writes. K was
      > interested not in whether God existed or was real but rather "how one
      > becomes a Christian." He did not ask "how does God become real?" but rather
      > "How does he become real for me?" He did believe that as long as I do not
      > believe, God is not real for me, and my personal reality is what K was
      > concerned about – The personal reality of subjective individual human
      > beings.
      >
      > Don
      >
    • James Rovira
      I agree with your point of view on K s belief, Don. That s all I ve been saying all along. But if he assumes it in everything that he writes, as I have been
      Message 141 of 141 , Aug 14, 2009
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        I agree with your point of view on K's belief, Don. That's all I've
        been saying all along. But if he assumes it in everything that he
        writes, as I have been saying, he is assuming it to be a fact. It's
        just not a fact we can only appropriate subjectively.

        However, if I recall, K uses the word "fact" in relationship to the
        paradoxes of Religiousness B. That's how we're supposed to relate to
        doctrines such as the incarnation and resurrection. Faith leads us to
        accept them as a fact. These doctrines are beliefs about events that
        took place in the material world; as such, they either did or did not
        really happen.

        Jim R

        On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 2:00 AM, Donald Anderson<don@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > JimR, you asked:
        >
        > "Do you think K
        > believed that we create God out of nothing by believing in God, or do
        > you think he believed that God exists independently of our belief in
        > him?"
        >
        >
        >
        > I do not believe that K believed that we create God by believing in him and
        > I think that K believed that God is real independently of our belief. I
        > agree with K's belief. The key term in all of this is "believe." K does not
        > say that he knows this for a fact, however. He is not interested in proving
        > that God is real. He presupposes it in everything he writes. K was
        > interested not in whether God existed or was real but rather "how one
        > becomes a Christian." He did not ask "how does God become real?" but rather
        > "How does he become real for me?" He did believe that as long as I do not
        > believe, God is not real for me, and my personal reality is what K was
        > concerned about – The personal reality of subjective individual human
        > beings.
        >
        > Don
        >
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