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Re: The Ethical and the Moral and a sense of FOUNDNESS

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  • † Angel Sola
    I m not going to call you anything at this time, because I don t REALLY know you, and you DON T really know me. Sola ... sound, ... us ... seriously, ... is
    Message 1 of 99 , May 26, 2007
      I'm not going to 'call you' anything at this time, because I don't
      REALLY know you, and you DON'T really know me. Sola

      --- In kierkegaardians@yahoogroups.com, "signal to noise"
      <signal_to_noise@...> wrote:
      >
      > If we are 'sourced' in GOD, we are sourced in THE ETERNAL, we came
      > DIRECTLY, not indirectly, from THE CREATOR. It is our 'perceptual'
      > distance from Him that causes us problems. We are distracted
      > by 'where we are' and so, because of subjectivity, we confuse 'where
      > we are' with who we are. In a word, we are lost, and BEING ALWAYS
      > SOUGHT BY AND FOUND AGAIN by God. Amazing Grace, how sweet the
      sound,
      > that saved a wretch like me, I once was lost but now I'm found, was
      > blind but now I see.........what a hymn! That is what poetry and
      > music can elicit.......a SENSE of 'foundness' in God. Beauty makes
      us
      > remember! I will give to you AN ADVOCATE......that advocate is THE
      > HOLY SPIRIT.......the Holy Spirit is what we need to TUNE INTO, to
      > draw us away from our lostness in subjectivity; time and place. The
      > Holy Spirit will lead our high natures toward our returning to our
      > source, and then we will no longer 'feel' lost.
      >
      > -----
      >
      > another point where SK and me diverge...he takes the bible so
      seriously,
      > literally
      >
      > my 'leap' is riddled with doubt and uncertainty, but then, my leap
      is into
      > the indefinable and irreducible thing that is God...the church, the
      bible,
      > has nothing at all to do with it
      >
      > jesus was one hell of a radical, but he was just a man
      >
      > the holy spirit: a metaphor
      >
      > God is God is God...only one...it needs no worship, no mediation,
      and no
      > advocacy
      >
      > all it wants from me is my attention, as in 'pay attention, stupid!'
      >
      > call me deist it you like...i can live with it
      >
      > thing is: i'm not a wretch...not a 'sinner'...not lost and looking
      for
      > salvation...i am exactly what and where i'm supposed to be
      >
      > either i'm right or i'm wrong (either/or...HA!) but YOU gotta make
      your your
      > choices...they define you...i choose to walk, not crawl...i choose
      to face
      > God, not bow in submission
      >
      > how's that for hubris?
      >
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    • Bill
      ... wrote: Jim R., Don t understand what you mean that freedom is posible . God is decidely not a paradox self-consciously given. We would
      Message 99 of 99 , Jun 12, 2007
        --- In kierkegaardians@yahoogroups.com, "James Rovira"
        <jamesrovira@...> wrote:
        Jim R., Don't understand what you mean that "freedom is posible".
        God is decidely not a paradox self-consciously given. We would have
        to understand what freedom is prior to claiming it exists. Our
        understanding of God is something willed that is a change in
        ourselves, and not the other way around. There isn't a change in
        ourselves that creates our understanding of God, or a sense of our
        understanding of freedom. Bill

        As Kierkegaard writes, there is

        "passion for a paradox not a search for understanding that inspires
        that leap" (Philosophical Fragments, p. 37 ff)".

        As I've written before, I don't think you understand what Kierkegaard
        is about, since you lack any experience of what he describing. Bill
        > Bill -- I don't think the incarnation moves us toward understanding
        the
        > totality of what God has created so much as brought God down to our
        finitude
        > so that we can comprehend what we need to know of him, and so that
        freedom
        > is possible -- rather than just being overwhelmed with a Divine
        vision.
        >
        > Kierkegaard --or at least Climacus in CUP -- makes quite a bit deal
        of the
        > fact that we never escape our own finitude, that our understanding
        of "it
        > all" is always from within it all and not above it all. So we never
        > comprehend any totality. That is reserved for God.
        >
        > Jim R
        >
        > On 6/9/07, Bill <billybob98103@...> wrote:
        > >
        > > --- In kierkegaardians@yahoogroups.com<kierkegaardians%
        40yahoogroups.com>,
        > > "James Rovira"
        > > <jamesrovira@> wrote:
        > > Jim R., I'm a bit confused, since if God becomes human then we
        could
        > > believe that God gives us the will to understand him, and that he
        has
        > > no needs because he created for himself our understanding of him?
        In
        > > fact, the idea of being forgiven for sin is possibly his attempt
        to
        > > relieve us of the burden of our own limited understanding.
        > >
        > > Of course this belief in our ability to understand the totality of
        > > what God created is dependent on the idea of freedom. It is this
        that
        > > gives us the ability to decide what it is that God created.
        > > Otherwise, why would we as Kierkegaard describe our existence as
        what
        > > we "strive" to understand? Thanks for your helpful insights, as
        they
        > > usually are.
        > > Bill
        > >
        > >
        >
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