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Re: A serious mistake? Kierkegaard and the ethical personality

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  • Will Brown
    Een, sorry it took so long to get back to you on your second power comment. I now have time to turn my attention to the internet again. As you are probably
    Message 1 of 6 , Nov 11, 2004
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      Een, sorry it took so long to get back to you on your second power
      comment. I now have time to turn my attention to the internet again.
      As you are probably aware, SK's talk of the second power was not
      confined solely to subjectivity. He also applies that notion of 'to
      the second power' to consciousness, reflection, understanding,
      dialectical truth, Christianity, and Grace. There may be more, but I
      do not have quotes for them.

      Een: <If a self becomes aware of itself as a self, it is,
      subjectively, self-aware, ie it understands itself subjectively. If a
      self becomes aware of itself as a self that is aware of itself, one
      may say that it has self-awareness to the second power. This is simply
      a mathematical metaphor ( b x b, is b to the second power). So much
      for talk of the Second Power.>

      I get the distinct impression from your statement that you see SK's
      notion of something to the second power a rather pedestrian notion
      and easily covered by mention of it being a mathematical metaphor. If
      I am mistaken, I will stand corrected. However that comes out, it does
      give me the chance to lay out something of what I see the second power
      referring to. I will offer two quotes; the first concerning
      consciousness to the second power, and the second concerning
      understanding to the second power. willy

      Here is SK, writing as the author of Repetition, Constantin
      Constantius, in an open letter to one Professor Heiberg, concerning
      the subject of consciousness to the second power as used in
      Repetition. Note that he separates consciousness raised to the second
      power from the pedestrian consciousness through his distinction of a
      qualitative difference in which the new 'has an absolute significance
      in relation to what has gone before.' I submit that this is not the
      stuff of a mathematical metaphor.

      "But for the sake of order I have already quoted some passages to
      which I refer anyone who may have forgotten the total and definitive
      aim of /Repetition/, which is much more that a few stray remarks. In
      the explanatory letter it says , 'The young man explains it as the
      raising of his consciousness to the second power.' This certainly
      ought to be the most definitive expression of the fact that I conceive
      of repetition as a development, for consciousness raised to its second
      power is indeed no meaningless repetition, but a repetition of such a
      nature that the new has absolute significance in relation to what has
      gone before, is qualitatively different from it." (Repetition, Hong,
      Supplement, p. 307) (Pap. IV B 117 n.d., 1843-44)

      And here is SK, in the Book on Adler, speaking to the difference
      between an essential author and an premise-author, which he terms as
      exactly opposite of each other. In this, he speaks to an understanding
      raised to the second power. The fact of a raising of the understanding
      to a second power as exemplifying the difference between the two also
      suggests more to SK's notion than just a mathematical metaphor. In the
      essential author, the understanding as appropriated, expresses itself
      through the author.

      "In so far as an essential author may be said to feel a need to
      communicate himself, this need is purely immanent, an enjoyment of his
      understanding raised to the second power, or else it would be for him
      an ethical task consciously assumed." (Book on Adler, Lowrie, p.117-18)

      PS: bordo, if you are still around, what is your take on this second
      power business? Of course, my invite for comment is open to all.


      --- In kierkegaardians@yahoogroups.com, "Een Enkelte"
      <eenenkelte@y...> wrote:
      >
      > Dear Kierkegaardians,
      >
      > Perhaps K. just meant that the ethical person is interested solely in
      > conforming himself to the ethical requirement, his duty - such that
      > the requirement includes this, that the result not be his concern.
      >
      > If the result is in sight, the means are relativised.
      > If being ethical is the means, then it is relatively important,
      > relatively decisive, in relation to the result.
      > How then shall we evaluate the result?
      > Ethically?
      > Yet ethically the question is one of intent, of how the self
      > understood itself in what it did, of the relation of the self to
      > itself.
      >
      > For the ethical self, being ethical is not the means, but the end in
      > itself.
      > If there there are no means, there is no result either; just a self
      > and his duty.
      >
      > Further, there can be no question that K. explicity seperates Ethics
      > and Love. Ethics-leading to the religious. Love-the maximum of the
      > religious.
      >
      > ---------------------------------------------------------
      >
      > A Personal Note
      >
      > Thank you for your concern. All is well.
      >
      > I was not communicating anything through my silence. My absence from
      > this forum has been largely due to being almost overwhelmingly busy
      > at work. However, this was only the catalyst for my being silent; I
      > was also waiting for the waters to settle.
      >
      > The reaction itself was the result of my own inability to muster a
      > response to the string. Though I have been reading K. for some seven
      > years now, I have never had the opportunity to discuss my thoughts
      > with anyone else. Not that the subject of K. has never come up in
      > conversations, but rather, that I have never met anyone for whom his
      > ideas were decisive (but then, I have have never met anyone else in
      > person, for whom any idea was decisive).
      >
      > It finally having occurred to me that I might try to find discussion
      > forums on the web, I arrived at Kierkegaardians. Perhaps I may say
      > that the experience has not been an entirely happy one.
      >
      > I have found the strings bewildering, such that I found it
      > increasingly difficult to engage.
      >
      > My silence has been no more than my taking time away, so as to try to
      > understand why I have had such difficulties.
      >
      > As I would very much like to continue with engaging in this forum, I
      > would like to try to give some account of what I understand to be the
      > source of my confusion.
      >
      > Please accept that I am not complaining, but only seeking to explain.
      >
      > To be very frank, I find the strings to be too vague and abstract.
      > Whatever naivety this shows on my part, it came as a shock to me that
      > it was possible to discuss so precise and concrete a thinker as K. in
      > this way.
      >
      > Approximately indicated meanings are to clarity, as waving is to
      > pointing. Loosely used terminolgy is no more than words that lack
      > meaning.
      >
      >
      > A self is not a something, a self is someone: Myself, yourself,
      > himself. Talk of 'The Christ Self' either lacks meaning, or belongs
      > to another terminology entirely. Either way, it is an abstraction.
      >
      > If a self becomes aware of itself as a self, it is, subjectively,
      > self-aware, ie it understands itself subjectively.
      > If a self becomes aware of itself as a self that is aware of itself,
      > one may say that it has self-awareness to the second power. This is
      > simply a mathematical metaphor ( b x b, is b to the second power).
      > So much for talk of the Second Power.
      >
      > The most direct route to the heart of the matter is simply to ask
      > oneself, and answer for oneself, the following question:
      >
      > Would you be willing to be as you are now, for eternity?
      >
      >
      > My earnest hope is that we may be able to return to some careful
      > wading.
      >
      > Very best regards,
      >
      > Een Enkelte.
    • Will Brown
      Dear Een, Since I saw your message #351 as the expression of a single thought, I will make my response just long enough to express my single thought in
      Message 2 of 6 , Nov 17, 2004
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        Dear Een,

        Since I saw your message #351 as the expression of a single thought, I
        will make my response just long enough to express my single thought in
        response. Again, forgive my lateness in replying.

        Een: <Useful for its brevity as it may be, I consider that this
        expression was not part of K.'s terminology as such. In that post, I
        was resisting the use of such expressions as jargon, eg nowhere in the
        posts in which this expression was used was it usefully explained.>

        The expression referred to is SK's use of the term 'raised to the
        second power.' He applies that term to subjectivity, consciousness,
        reflection, understanding, dialectical truth, Christianity, and Grace.
        I see you dismissing that as being part of his terminology until such
        time as it can be usefully explained.

        I note that you did not say that nowhere was it explained, but that
        you did say that nowhere was it /usefully/ explained. I would say that
        this added term captures the core of your criticism rather neatly. The
        fact that SK uses the term does not make it part of his terminology.
        What determines that is whether or not it was usefully explained. The
        question might rise as to whom it was usefully explained, but, more
        importantly, the question of whether useless simply means that
        something is not understood, and not useless as in teats on a boar.

        In that light, the difficulty for anyone to meet the criterion you lay
        down could actually require an understanding raised to the second
        power for it to be useful. In other words, until such time as the
        second power understanding is appropriated, everything said about it
        other than calling it jargon would seem like jargon. It sure sounds
        like a Catch 22 to me.
        --- --- --- --- --- ---
        Een: <What I wrote in that post to the group was no more than an
        explanation of my silence, and of its source in my inability to engage
        in discussions without explicit meaning.>

        Yes, and this is explicitly what I sensed from reading your prior
        postings here and elsewhere. I get the impression, and it is only an
        impression, of there being a perfunctory dismissal of thought that
        does not match yours; i.e., thought that does not contain that
        "useful" explanation. However, it is my hope that you continue to
        critique what I say. Such would provide me with more opportunity to
        lay out what I see as our difference in interpreting Kierkegaard. For
        my part, rather than dismissing that difference, I find that
        difference rather intriguing because I see it going directly to the
        matter of the truth that is subjectivity.

        Very best regards, Willy
      • Jim Stuart
        Dear Willy, I have to say I m in agreement with Een in your discussion about understanding, consciousness, etc. raised to the second power . While not wishing
        Message 3 of 6 , Nov 18, 2004
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          Dear Willy,

          I have to say I'm in agreement with Een in your discussion about understanding, consciousness, etc. 'raised to the second power'.

          While not wishing to speak for Een, for myself I feel that unless you can point to a passage where SK explicitly discusses the expression 'raised to the second power' (rather than just using the expression), or you say exactly how you conceive of understanding, etc. 'raised to the second power' differing from 'basic' understanding, I shall remain of the view that SK is just using the expression as a mathematical metaphor.

          The way you talk of understanding, etc. 'raised to the second power', makes it sound mysterious to the point of miraculous, as if an individual is suddenly blessed with this understanding (or consciousness) 'to the second power', through Divine intervention.

          While some Christians may be happy with such an account of how an individual can progress to a deeper level of subjectivity, this doesn't seem to me to be how SK conceives of us as making progress towards greater subjectivity. Further SK does not hold to the view that the inwardness of the religious individual cannot be described - he spends quite a number of pages in CUP describing it. Thus if the notion of something to the second power is to be more than a mathematical metaphor for SK, it should be possible to describe what this 'more' is.

          Yours,

          Jim



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        • Jim Stuart
          Dear Een, In your posting of 2nd November (message 340), you argued against my criticism of Kierkegaard s account of the ethical. Your response was divided
          Message 4 of 6 , Nov 28, 2004
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            Dear Een,

            In your posting of 2nd November (message 340), you argued against my criticism of Kierkegaard's account of the ethical. Your response was divided into four sections: (1) Idiosyncratic usage; (2) Telos: The relative and the absolute; (3) Ethics, Love and Theology; (4) The grammar of love and the religious.

            In my reply of 6th November (message 341), I responded only to your first section (Idiosyncratic usage). This response led to an extended discussion which covered such issues as ontological commitment, conceptual schemes, natural laws and free will. This was a fruitful discussion, but perhaps with the differences between us fairly clearly laid out, it is time to move on.

            I'd like now to respond to your second section (Telos: The relative and the absolute). This is what you wrote:

            "You write that:

            'the 'absolute telos' of the ethical individual is to continually act for the benefit of others'

            This would require that 'the benefit of others' could be an absolute
            ethical telos. For an existentialist, this would be a highly problematical
            proposition.

            Firstly, it would contradict the founding principle of existentialism; namely that each individual exists individually, and should never be considered en masse.

            Secondly, it would require a certainty (equally as absolute as the telos) regarding the 'benefit'. I challenge you to give an account of 'ethical benefit'.


            Thirdly, and by definition, in relation to the absolute all else is relative. If the 'benefit of others' is the absolute telos, all else is relative. The way is open to benefit others through unethical behaviour. The absolute does not allow for adjustment, compromise or shades of meaning.

            Enten/Eller - Either/Or
            i) If I lie now, she may be better off, and that is the point...
            otherwise I would be letting her down.
            ii) If I do not lie now, I may harm him, but I must not lie...
            otherwise I am a deceiver.


            Let me respond to your three points:

            (1) I think my view is consistent with the 'founding principle of existentialism' that 'each individual exists individually, and should never be considered en masse'. Perhaps I didn't outline my view clearly enough. I'm no utilitarian - I agree utilitarianism is not consistent with the founding principle of existentialism. Rather I'm closer to Kantianism, and I hold to the ethical principle that we should always treat others as ends, and never as means. Further, rather than think of the recipients of my ethical actions as human beings 'en masse', I think of the person whom my actions are directed towards as 'the other' or as 'others' if my actions are to affect a group of people.

            I don't think that acting out of a concern for the well-being of others is inconsistent with existentialism. Existentialists don't have to be solipsists.

            (2) I think I can be passionately committed to acting for the good of others, without being certain in every case that my action will in fact benefit the other. In this imperfect world, we do not have certain knowledge of the consequences of our actions, but we do have a good idea what will result from our choices and actions. The Good Samaritan could not be certain that by attending to the injured man, and paying for his recuperation, that his actions would benefit him. However, surely we can judge that the Good Samaritan's actions were more likely to benefit the injured man than the actions (or rather 'non-actions') of the Priest and the Levite would do.

            (3) I'm not sure that if I hold to the Kantian principle mentioned above (treat others as ends and never as means), that I would ever act 'unethically', if I acted out of love for the benefit of others.

            I agree that we can be faced with 'moral dilemmas', in which each choice of action has a negative aspect to it. To adapt your example, suppose a good German family in late 1930's Germany is hiding a Jewish family in their cellar. The Gestapo come knocking at the door, asking if the German family knows of any Jews hiding in the area. Our German hero says "No", and the Gestapo do away.

            Yes, the German has lied, and this is certainly a bad aspect to his action, but surely in this case we want to say that lying was the right thing for him to do, and for this reason it doesn't seem right that we describe his action as 'unethical'.

            In summary, I still think my original criticism of Kierkegaard's account of the ethical (see my message 316) is valid, despite all that you and Willy have written over the last couple of months. I have certainly learnt a lot from your and Willy's postings, and my understanding and appreciation of the writings and ideas of Kierkegaard have deepened as a result.

            Yours,

            Jim



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